(first posted 7/20/2014) VW’s current strategy to design larger cars specifically for the US market isn’t exactly new. In the early sixties, VW gave serious thought to a six-seater rear-engine sedan to take on the Americans on their own (big) terms. The EA 128 was a fair chunk bigger and wider than the Corvair, right into US mid-size territory. And with bench seats no less, to seat six big Amerikaner. Even a wagon version (Kountry Knecht?) was built. But where to get the underpinnings and six-cylinder engine for the AmiWagen? Where else:
image: hobidas.com
Those wheels are the give-away: Porsche, of course; that wellspring of VW prototypes and engineering for decades. And how convenient; the timing in 1962 was perfect for Porsche, since their own new six-cylinder 901 (911) was just in gestation. The result: a (US) mid-sized sedan version of the 911, from the suspension right up to the steering wheel.
image: hobidas.com
Stretching 4.7 meters (185 inches) long, the EA128 was a half-foot longer than the Corvair, and from the looks of it, substantially wider.
image: hobidas.com
The front seat was clearly designed for three-across seating, with a 40/60 split bench. The dash is decidedly un-American; needs to have a long horizontal speedometer and just a gas gauge. This is way too Porsche-like.
image: hobidas.com
The 2 liter 911 air-cooled boxer six engine was detuned to 90 hp, which was respectable for European standards of the time, but the engine’s torque curve would have been anything but familiar with the typical American driver. Never mind the cost to build it, which presumably was at least one of the EA 128′s downfall.
where’s the fake wood?
The Corvair’s own downward trajectory probably didn’t help. And even if VW could rationalize its production, it would have still come out way more expensive than a Fairlane. But VW had it all wrong: this should have been sold as a Porsche, with a zippy new name, say…Panamera.
Related reading: VW 411/412: VW’s Deadly Sin
This large stillborn VW Sedan may have been today’s Phaeton which was the large flagship VW Sedan available a few years ago.
I liked the VW Phaeton. It was a little out of my price range, but it was a good looking car. It’s just a shame that it didn’t sell very well.
This is the very first time I see this car and read about it. This VW looks like something the DDR’s Head of State would drive, well into the eighties. A sort of Super Trabant for the happy few. What an ugly barge.
Same. Never seen or heard of this before. Looks like the box the 411 came in.
A Super Trabant for the happy few ? It’s been done with the Wartburg.
…Which looks like that VW, albeit smaller.
I’ve seen pictures of the Wartburg, but I’ve never seen one in person.
One of my music teacher had a mustard coloured one in the 70s.They were 2 strokes and belched clouds of smoke as you had to put 2 stroke oil in the petrol tank.It was the only one I’ve ever seen.My brother taped a contraceptive over the exhaust pipe one day.
I think it’s better looking than the Trabant.
The leader of the DDR drove something much nicer:
you bet, these VWs would be more in realm of the stretch Volvos of DDR fame.
Reminds me of the Tatra 613
Bingo! Ideally it would have been the equivalent of the the BMW 5 series, with the VW type 3 as the 3 series and the Tatra as the equal of the 7 series BMWs…
I’ve seen pictures of the Tatra 613. I find it more attractive than the Volkswagen prototype in this article.
A friend has a Tatra 613 and it is quite good looking, but dull compared to the 77 and 78.
Indeed, just like the Sachenring parade cars Paul would write about!
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/automotive-history-horch-p240-sachsenring-and-sachsenring-reprasentant-east-germany-trys-and-fails-to-build-a-luxury-car/
It also reminds me of a Simca 1000 on steroids. And the rear cargo area on the wagon would have been pretty useless.
Freaky. I like the looks, rather like a later MB W126 or 123. It is a very interesting car but if they had made it, it probably wouldn’t have sold any better than the 411. Probably worse since the price would have been substantially higher. I agree with the author; the only way it could have made sense was as a Porsche sports sedan.
On a technical note, is that the fuel filler on the passenger side of the engine bay? Or were these engines dry sump already?
I believe that is to add oil, I’ve seen a similar arrangement on a 911.
That’s a _FUGLY_ beast ! .
My old lady who’s no car buff , looked over my shoulder and asked if this was an old S Klasse Mercedes…..
That filler is for the oil , 911’s were dry sumpers .
O.K. Paul , this was neat , now you have to spill the whole sorry VW K70 story….
-Nate
Nothing sorry about the K70. A nice little car overtaken by circumstances. It provided a small scale dry run for water-cooling and front wheel drive development, manufacturing and dealer servicing at a time when the cracks were abundantly showing in the Beetle model. Helped pave the way for the VW Golf so as far from a deadly sin as you can get.
I’m one of it’s few fans,I like Edsels,70 Coronets & Superbees and Mk4 Ford Zephyrs and Zodiacs which this reminds me of.I also have a French bulldog so I like the underdog and follow 2 crap football teams.
Thanks for another car I’ve never seen before
I love your taste in cars 🙂 .
Thanks these are the ones most people laugh at!
Yeah this has the lack of a grille like a MK4 but this is air cooled unlike the MK4 which desperately needed a grille opening to cure it kettle like behavior many had the spare wheel tray deleted and holes chopped into the front panel here, few survive.
Very interesting post. A reason why I check here daily.
With the fast growth of power accessories and air conditioning. It is hard to see this car having any success. It would not have been able to keep up with the evolution of large American cars in the late ’60. The styling would have to ride some lucky counter culture wave. Way too many beautiful and desirable American cars competing with this in the mid / late ’60s for this to have a chance. My guess is cost and this knowledge held them back from producing it.
Even if it didn’t look odd, the U.S. market just wasn’t very interested in ‘big’ European sedans at that point. A big car by European standards was barely a compact here and the U.S. compacts were cheaper and better suited to American tastes. That was part of the reason cars like the Triumph 2000 and Rover P6 never sold well here. The fact that they had reliability problems didn’t help, but Triumph’s biggest U.S. distributor insisted from the start that the big Triumph wouldn’t sell at all and they were quite correct.
The front end reminds or is quite similar to Czechoslovak rear engined V8 Tatra 613 from the mid ’70’s. More or less the VW EA128 and the Tatra 613 has so much in common.
Beat me to it yeah VW trying to build another Tatra its ugly and unappealing in true VW style along with air cooling to seal its fate, surprised they didnt try it the beetle was a huge success in the US despite its limitations or because of them this just might have sold with the right propaganda behind it.
Really needs a grille. Even if that grille doesn’t do anything, it really needs a grille.
And some tail lights that are larger than the side marker lights wouldn’t hurt either.
Definitely would not have sold over here. At the time, this would have been pretty much everything Americans hated about foreign cars, in one convenient location.
My thoughts exactly on the need for a faux grille and larger tail lights. The car would definitely not sell in 1965, but maybe so in 1973. I assume this was larger than the Dasher of 1970’s fame.
I’ve seen this thing before, I always wondered if this was the final styling or some sort of production mule for engineering purposes, with styling to be worked out at a later date, because the styling on the thing is a unique mix of very bland and pretty ugly.
VW had Porsche building concepts/prototypes in substantial numbers for many years; they had some kind of contract that involved building a certain number of them, or something like that. There are a number of other prototypes in the VW Museum, and many were scrapped.
I’m not sure exactly what to call them, except they were all driveable, and the basic chassis and body were fleshed out to certain standard. It gave the VW folks the opportunity to really consider the various prototypes and drive them before making decisions.
Obviously, if this had gone into production, it would have required a whole lot of further development, including styling. Porsche used as many 911 components as possible, including suspension, brakes, engine transmission, etc. All of these would have had to been rationalized and built more efficiently.
Building one-off prototypes like this was a common thing back then; small firms like Porsche, Ghia, Pininfarina, etc. had the skills to bang out cars like this at a fairly reasonable price. It’s hard to really get a feel for a new concept without seeing it and driving it.
Excellent discovery and research Paul. I find the exterior design of this car very unusual. There are elements that look remarkably modern for 1965. Very 1970s like, in some styling details. I see early 70s Audi and M-B in a number of elements, including the wheelwells, roofline and bodyside creases.
Unfortunate, that it look so chunky/boxy, along with that unfortunate front clip. Plus too much front overhang. Otherwise, it looks extraordinarily advanced for a mid 60s design IMO. I see future Audi/VW styling here. Very cool find.
Although it wears a “1965” plate, the EA 128 was actually built in 1962.
Needs the giant “VW” from a VW bus of the era. That would break up the space between the headlights and make it not quite look so odd even minus the grill.
It did have one “American” feature going for it, the front trunk looks like it should have been around 20 cubic feet. 🙂
Yes , a big VW emblem with chrome strips to the head lights., and bigger Mercedes like taillights. With 6 passenger seating, it almost has the seating capacity of a 7 seat VW bus ! For those who were concerned about safety of the bus, this would have made a good alternative, especially the wagon.
Never heard of this car! The wipers on the sedan look pretty strange, the way they face away from each other at rest. I’m guessing that someone in the museum deliberately arranged them that way, for appearance’s sake.
It’s kind of reminiscent of the 411/412.
Fascinating find.
Please tell me this is just a development mule and not the proposed final styling? If you thought the BMC Landcrab was bad…….
And the gear lever shape?
But surely the biggest question is why did VW think rear engine was the way to go for such a car? To me, the only reason is “that is the VW way”, and that in any organisation is never a good enough answer
Thanks for alerting me to the gear level shape. This in turn alerted me to the gaping chasm between the brake and clutch pedals, which appear to be located in separate ZIP codes. Driver ergonomics for contortionists only.
“Test mule” would explain a lot. Definitely not ready for prime-time.
I would bet this had a prototype of the “Sportomatic” that Porsche started putting in the 911 in the late 1960s. That third pedal looks like it’s a foot-operated parking brake, judging by its location and the lack of any visible hand brake.
As I commented above, Porsche built many one-off prototypes for VW, at their request. It was a way for the VW execs and Board to evaluate possible future cars. If it had been approved for production, much additional development would undoubtedly have been required, including styling. Its styling reflects VW’s design ethos of the time, but it might well have been changed to one degree or another.
the finish looks quite far advanced. Also, isnt the dash similar to the current Passat’s?
It’s not the most attractive VW car I’ve seen, but I do like the idea behind it. I like the rear-engined boxer engine. I would’ve given it a water-cooled boxer engine.
As a competitor to the Corvair, this may have done well if it was priced right. The Corvair didn’t have power steering and brakes and did well, so no reason this would not have had some success. Handsome looking in my opinion too.
I agree. VW didn’t have a 4 door sedan at the time. They had the Squareback, the Beetle, the Fastback, and the Transporter (Bus, Westphalia, truck, etc.), but no proper sedan. It would’ve made an awesome competitor to the Corvair 4 door.
Another problem: by 1965, the American market would’ve demanded heat and air conditioning that were worth having. On rear engine models, it was well into the 90s before Porsche really figured out how to do that.
This one went into production in Brazil in 1969; it was not very well liked but found a niche among taxi drivers in Rio (but not in São Paulo). The replacement (1972) was even more bizarre and even more disliked.
No, that’s a different car altogether, a four door version of the Type III VW, with a different front end design. The EA 128 was a substantially larger car, even bigger than the 411/412, which was already one size bigger than the car you have shown.
I’m aware that’s a different car, but I guess it’s a nice addition to the main subject of this post – 4-door-rear-engine VW – . BTW, it was a failure, but it was also the first of a successful family that included the Variant (1970) and the TL (1971), and even more so the Brasilia (1974), already featured on CC.
Alberto: when I saw the car featured in this article, an image of the VW Zé do Caixao crossed my mind, a car I saw for the first time in Belo Horizonte, MG in 1992.
I like it better than the fastback/squareback etc. but I am with the poster above. Water cooled. If they were hung up on boxers go with Subaru. I think the tech was there to get HP out of a subaru 4. Guess they hadn’t bought the tech for front wheel drive just yet. With a sturdy water cooled engine you have the potential for good AC and Heat. Would have been competitive IMO because VWs had a pretty good rep for dependability.
The replacement came in 1972 – thank god the Passat was introduced in 1974 and this embarrassing episode was more or less forgotten. The fourth window was probably the ugliest ever detail that adorned anything with a VW badge on it.
Interesting, for sure. That wagon version is WAY cool!
Any connection with the car Porsche designed for Studebaker back in the fifties? AGB
No; that was some years earlier. Porsche built dozens of rear-engined prototypes for VW and other companies. They could probably do it in their sleep.
Paul, have you ever heard of a GM programme in the late 50s,early 1960s for a full sized rear engined V8 sedan? I think it may have been refered to as the Q-car. All I have ever heard was that it was cancelled due to build costs and basic practicality issues.
Or maybe it was just a myth like the 100 MPG carb…
Mac’s Motor City Garage have an blog post about this partnership between Porsche and Studebaker.
https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/the-secret-studebaker-porsche-connection/
Sadly, the prototypes was crashed.
They pretty much built it anyway….
It reminds me of the early 1990s Avanti Sedan, which was based on the Chevy Caprice.
I was just thinking that it looked kind of Avanti-like around the tail. Overall I like it though, for all its homeliness it has a sort of charm. And while commercially it wouldn’t have ever worked, think of having a 4-door VW version of the 911 as that car progressed along its design arc…
(There are some Phaeton parallels there as it turns out.)
I have a feeling this was more of a mechanical developmental mule than anything else, as I’m sure the styling was a work in progress. Interesting idea though.
Interesting concept. Probably a wise move not to produce it. The way the 411/412 bombed, this would have most likely had the same fate. Those are the largest side markers I have ever seen. It is kind of a nice looking car except for the flat nose. Rear engine air cooled was already becoming obsolete even in 1962.
Very interesting Paul, I hadn’t known about this before.
I think they made the right decision, I can’t see this being a success in the mid-60’s with a 2-litre engine, too large a car for the engine. Just look at the 1960 Falcon for comparison with the 144 ci 6-cyl. Mind you, the impact on Porsche had they gone ahead with it is interesting to contemplate!
It’s probably the proportions and the lack of a grille, but to this English reader it has an air of Mk IV Ford Zephyr about it. And those weren’t one of Dagenham’s happiest designs.
Looks like the next generation Borgward P100!
Very Fiat like [128?]. And later Volvo 140.
Call me crazy [my brother says eccentric], but I really like everything about this. Except the tail lights. Clean, no nonsense.
185″ is exactly the size of an ION Quad and a half inch shorter than the ION sedan, for reference.
Never saw this in 14. Thanks for reposting it.
I wonder if this could’ve been developed further with an upmarket orientation to compete against Europe’s more established large cars of the era. I imagine the air cooled six would’ve been far too noisy, and the heater too marginal, among other issues.
It has way more character than the Phaeton.
VW could revive this design, but with a modern liquid cooled transverse inline turbo 4 behind the rear seat, just ahead of the rear axle. That retains many of the advantages of rear-engine design: Great braking, light unassisted steering … while avoiding the noise, high emission and poor winter heating of the old air cooled engine.
Sure; I can’t see any reason why not. 🙂 Today’s car buyers are just begging for a car with unassisted steering, a rear engine, etc…
It’s actually more of a “mid-engine” design. Take the 1.8T FWD package of the Passat, move the whole thing to the rear axle …
Advantages:
1) Quietness (for the driver, since the engine is now further away)
2) Styling and aerodynamics (without the big lump under the “hood,” the front end could be lowered without running afoul of pedestrian safety rules
3) Safety (Larger front crumple zone)
4) Front and rear trunks (just like the Porsche 914)
5) VW heritage (Why make yet another FWD mobile like all the others?)
6) You would love it! 🙂
LOL. “Amerikanischer tink cahs neet seit mahkah lights, ja? Fein, ve giff dem great bik seit mahkah lights!”
The prototype in the lead photo looks like a Volvo which had its grille plastered over with Bondo.
I don’t think it would have been such an expensive car, although perhaps too expensive to succeed. VWs were pretty much the embodiments of cheap cars in the US in the ’60s, so they wouldn’t have dared making a car that cost as much as a mid sized Buick. The Porsche engine stripped of its 3 barrel carburetors or fuel injection wouldn’t have been too expensive. VW would have paired it with a 4-speed for further savings. Even BMW 1600-2s weren’t expensive cars, and this would have been more austere than the those. Perhaps, were VW to find a market for say 50,000 EA 128s, Porsche may have achieved economies of scale sufficient to drop the 911T’s price into Alfa Romeo Spider territory.
Fascinating, as Mr. Spock would say. This stillborn big VW’s blunt-nosed, grill-less, rear engined design is so offbeat that I cannot avoid having thoughts of Star Trek when looking at the photos. It looks like it belongs in an alternate universe with the timeline of Earth disrupted, with the Warsaw Pact conquering NATO and Czechoslovakia taking the EA 128 design as war reparations and making it the first post-World War III Tatra.
I missed this the first time around, and when I saw it now, I had to check the date. This car is so strange that I thought it was an April Fool’s story! That it really did exist makes it even stranger.
Interesting windshield wiper layout
The “hood” with “negative center power bulge” is straight from the air-cooled 911.
I actually like it and, Porsche 911 exchangeability being what it is, I can imagine it with one of the very last 3.6L (?) air cooled boxers and a 5 sp box, an interesting Q car.
Oof, da! Now THAT’S ugly. Yowie.
That’s an Amish car.
Very interesting car. Am I seeing things or is the front dented?
Interesting that the greenhouse on the ’65 Nissan President and ’67 Toyota Century bear more than a passing resemblance to the greenhouse on the EA 128. And the Fiat 124.
Not to mention that the crease at the rear window is almost reminiscent of the flying C-pillar crease worked onto the 4-door ’67+ Chrysler A-body 4-doors.
Sure looks like a Boxy Volvo.
Would have been interesting to see how the EA128 would have evolved had it reached production.
While doubting the EA128 would be directly replaced even in the event it does turn out to be successful, especially once Rudolf Leiding becomes Volkswagen CEO and begins rejecting Porsche’s involvement with Volkswagen.
Perhaps it would encourage Volkswagen to develop an earlier 6-cylinder or V8 engined equivalent of the late-80s Audi V8 / A8? That is assuming such a project was not already considered by Volkswagen / Audi during the 70s.
The more I look at this car, the more I realize the parts-bin side markers, taillights, and probably even the headlamp surrounds make this car look a lot clunkier than it really is. If you mentally erase them, the body is a look more evolved than it looks at first. Not daring, or beautiful, but definitely designed with thought and a sense of crispness.
Where’s the fuel filler? I think I can just make it out on the edge of the passenger side of the very deep scuttle, as the Brits call it. I’m guessing the fuel tank sits between the back of the front wheel wells and ahead of the cowl, leaving the area between the wheel wells and forward free for luggage, aided by the unfortunately long front overhang. What price in suitcase capacity a 3-inch wheelbase stretch?
Some stories I’ve read about the EA128 claim it was a sort of an engineering mule, and this was not ever intended to be the final styling.
This would have had to be quite expensive to be profitable, and selling a premium-priced car under a brand known for low-priced cars is never easy in the U.S., as VW found out with the Phaeton (and eight-cylinder Passat and luxury versions of the Jetta circa 2006). Still, it’s possible, as with the Thunderbird and Corvette. Jeep is trying that now with the new Grand Wagoneer. I can’t imagine the EA128 as seen here selling well either as a VW or Porsche though (or Audi which would have been a possibility by 1965). Unlike the Panamera, it doesn’t look anything like a Porsche except for the steering wheel.
I don’t think America was ready for a “Camry” yet. Austin learned that was a long way from the case 20 years before with the designed-for-America Atlantic, and even the modestly Americanized Westmoreland Rabbits a decade later were disappointing if respectable sellers (while the original Camry itself was just as comfort-tuned at home and kept its’ narrow Japanese body and origami styling for the first generation).
Just how it would’ve gone over would’ve depended on the final styling and pricing. If they could keep it from drifting too far up into Cutlass territory and it came under the Giugiaro contract rather than an in-house effort a la the Type 4 then maybe it would’ve escaped a “VW’s Edsel” rep but…only maybe.
* There’s something VERY disconcerting about the flat, featureless front end. It’s like a face without a mouth.
* OTOH, the greenhouse and interior are very stately. They remind me of the Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow, believe it or not!
* The wiper placement on the featured car looks…wrong. If the picture of the wagon version is any indication, the car actually had narrowly-spaced parallel wipers like the M-B W116 and R107 or the Porsche 993.
* The wraparound turn signals satisfy the “make them visible from the side” and “economize by using the same unit for all four corners” criteria, but they won’t win any beauty contests…and it just seems wrong for them to be MORE visible from the side than they are from the front and rear of the car!
And…that’s all.
Yeah, I see a lot of RR in the shape and styling. Of course we still have to consider the grill less front end, side markers larger than the taillights and as fine an engine as the classic 911 engine is, it’s just all wrong for this car and it’s intended market. Best I’m sure that it was never produced.
“It’s like a face without a mouth.”
‘I have no mouth and I must speed’ – apologies to Harlan Ellison
The best part of this proto-411 is the interior, which looks great! If only the outside matched the inside. It needs an early Type 3 front end transplant.
I still like it in 2022! I’m 100% certain the Corvair debacle was at the back of VW’s mind when they decided to can the EA128 – this to me would have been one of the main arguments against it (why would anyone in the US buy something which is – sort of – no more no less than a bigger Corvair?). Plus, the same problems arising in respect of the Corvair’s handling would have applied to the EA – perhaps even the more so if powerful 911S-based engines were to be introduced.
It deserved a more refined work in the head lamps and tail lights to look the least attractive.