Speaking of 1986 Mercedes, there’s this 190 2.3 (W201) sitting in my driveway right now. It belongs to my younger son’s GF, and I’m trying to help her figure out whether to ditch it or fix it. The front struts are shot (leaking), this front brake is grinding metal on metal, and the tires are shot. You should have heard the sounds it made when I drove it a few blocks over here, between the brakes and a horrible sound from the struts too (I assume). She got a quote for some $800-900 to fix it all. Is it worth it? This is a pretty tired car…
(Update: her Grandpa just bought her a 2002 Focus wagon from a used car lot. It runs like a top, although I know that 2002 was a bit of a transition years for Focus reliability. So now to get rid of the 190. Probably follow the advice of putting some cheap brakes on it and trying to sell it. Thanks for all the feedback.)
She’s a University student, and needs cheap wheels. Last summer, I found what I thought was the perfect beater for $200, a 1992 Corolla and gave it to her (full story here). For one reason or another (I think she never got comfortable with the stick shift, or who knows why) she gave it back to me after she bought this 190 for $900, with 200,000 miles on the odometer. She didn’t ask me, and I didn’t think it was such a hot idea. Whatever..kids.
It seems to run ok; I only drove it a few blocks over at a crawl. A far cry from my old Mercedes days…
Oddly, I don’t think I’ve ever set foot in one of these. It’s very compact inside; the seating position is quite different than from a W124, which was substantially taller and roomier. And the interior ambiance is almost equally different: the quality of the materials is a substantial step down. Well, it was intended to compete in a very significantly different class.
I’ve got a guy I know in the neighborhood who runs a little repair business from his garage checking to see if it is necessary to have a Mercedes-specific spring compressor to do the struts. The brakes are easy enough. And the used tire store says they have some good ones for under $200 a set. Maybe I can get the cost down to closer to $500. Does it have to be aligned after doing the front struts?
Or should she look for another…tired beater? Finding a decent car in this town for under $2000 is very hard. That’s exactly what everyone wants.
If she only spent $900 for it in the first place, I wouldn’t think another $900 would be a big deal. But then, I speak from staid, comfortable early adulthood. And who’s to say some other $500+ repair won’t come out of the woodwork in another month or two?
My ’91 Volvo 940SE started nickel and diming me at about twelve years of age–and this was bought new by my father and always garaged and babied by me. So, all bets are off for a 200K 25+ year old Merc. That said, it looks pretty decent, and would be a shame to junk.
I’m conflicted about this…
Me to,the price of Mercedes parts is eye watering,on the other hand it seems to nice and straight for the scrapyard
Even the more reliable used cars can cost money at unexpected times. Can she deal with that without imposing on friends? Said another way, if she is a starving student might she be better off without a car?
If a car is necessary, the question I’d zero in on is this: Does she like the car enough to put some meaningful money into it? Perhaps the three-pointed star is worth more to her than rock-bottom repair costs.
The car in hand can often be less costly than the idealized deal that you may or may not find . . . and that car will end up needing repairs too.
As someone who’s owned a W123, a W124, and now an R129, I can say that if an $800 repair bill is making her wince, she’s not meant to own an old Mercedes. It’s not going to get cheaper over the long run.
In the past year since purchasing my 500SL, I’ve spent roughly $1,200 on maintenance and repairs (and that doesn’t include the cost to fix the A/C issue that was factored into the purchase price). My car was fastidiously maintained by one family for 20 years, with a perfect interior, showroom-quality paint, and a ream of service records from new.
The 190e in question doesn’t seem to have been so lucky. When the paint goes and the interior gets ripped up, the value of the car plummets; their owners stop putting in the cash these cars need to run properly.
You can fix the car, of course, but it won’t stop the bleeding. Next year (or maybe next month), something else will go wrong, and it’s unlikely to be a cheap fix. And by cheap, I mean $500; if the tranny goes or the headgaskets pop, you’re talking $2,500+
I’ll defer to other posters with more experience (Steve Lang?), but it sounds like she needs a cheapo GM with the 3.8; even a beat-up old Toyota or Honda is probably out of her budget at west coast prices.
Fix it, but then sell it and let her use the proceeds to buy something that’s less of a perpetual ticking time bomb…
You might be able to get away without an alignment if the upper mounts for the struts are fixed in position. If they are adjustable, plan on a trip to the rack.
I thought these had the reputation of being the worst Mercedes ever (not counting anything after 1995 or Smart)…
Of that era, undoubtedly. The engine and transmission and such are the same as in W124s (four cylinder versions), but they seem decidedly cheaper otherwise.
Personally I’m laughing at the K&N sticker on the air-cleaner cover, wanting 5 extra hp from your compact 4cyl Mercedes.
But then again perhaps my ex-wife’s next husband laughed at the K&N filter under the hood of the 1997 Escort wagon she took with her… 😛
The sticker is there to tell mechanics not to change the filter element. Considering the cost of Mercedes filters was probably at least $20 and the lifetime K&N would have been about $45, this may not have been done for the extra horsepower. OTOH, if you could get 5 extra HP(and I don’t believe you can), it would make a bigger difference on this 95 hp car than it would on a 190 hp car. Also, you save more money with a K&N in a car with the potential for many years of service than you would with one that’s shorter lived.
Back when I was a young BMW driver, I made a number of slight improvements aimed at increasing its performance. The Dinan chip allowed me to buy more expensive gas. When I moved to California, it really didn’t seem to appreciate our 91 octane crud. Naturally, I found the original ECU chip after I returned the car to Virginia. The K&N filter did allow me to not change filters for the last 100,000 miles I had the car. The most perceptible uptick in performance came when I changed to synthetic oil.
I had to check; It turns out there was a plain old filter in there…
Fix it and run it until the next thing breaks. Would not a $500 to $900 (plus what you could get for the Mercedes as is) car have it’s own issues and ticking time bombs. Isn’t the Mercedes going to be a lot safer than most other cars of it’s age.
Give her back the Corolla, assuming you still have it, and keep the Mercedes, repair it and sell it.
It went to a good home; someone who saw it for what it was: the perfect $300 beater.
$300.00? That’s still a $1500.00 car down here for certain people. The kind of people that worship God, Jesus and Toyota/Honda not necessarily in that order! A 1980s rwd Corolla ranks above God for them.
That’s what it cost me: $200 and a set of used tires. It might have fetched $1200 or more here too; these are in demand. I passed it on at cost to the guy who works for me on the house building project. He was looking for just something like it, and he’s thrilled.
You are a good man, Paul. He will indeed be thrilled. I was somewhat dubious when my sister wanted to sell me her ’97 Corolla, but they had taken good care of it and now at 249,000 I’m afraid I’m hooked-it has become a good and reliable friend.
You’re not going to find anything much better for $500 so may as well fix it. Do the brakes and struts now, worry about the tires later. Just make sure she has a good spare and knows how to use it.
Scary Movie VII. Get rid of the pig and find a used Camry or Corolla and go on to the next phase of your life before things get really expensive. The replacement battery and alternator for my sister’s 2003 Bimmer 745, done by BMW of York, PA, was $2700. Maybe the alternator was gold-plated. Who knows?
Take it from one who’s been there, if you can fix it on the cheap for $500, do that, clean it up, and get rid of it, and take the proceeds and find something more reliable. I’ve written before of my 25-year love/hate relationship with four coupes, when they’re running right, they’re the best car in the world. But look out when they’re not, mind-boggling expenses await. It will only continue to bleed her dry. An MB of that age and mileage is truly a disaster waiting to happen. A woman I worked with in the late ’80’s had one of these, even then, at only a couple of years old, it had issues. And it is dinky inside, at least by my 6′-2″ height standards, and cheap and gutless. I would not hesitate a moment to abandon this money pit, trust me, it will only get worse! She needs good, safe, reliable transportation to get her through her student years, and this ancient MB is not it.
A good friend (since deceased) bought this exact car (color combo) new in 1985. It was his first M-B (he fit the exact demographic for the car back in the day), replaced in 91 with a new 300E, a big step up. It was dinky inside (I’m over 6 1/2 and once rode in the backseat LA-Palm Springs in a fair degree of misery) and pretty gutless but we loved it (hey, it had the three-pointed star on the hood) and drove it all over SoCal.
DW, my memory is the same as yours as this car had issues within a year or two as well. Cooling system was a problem, A/C, alternator/battery electrical issues, etc. though I believe the engine and transmission were good. Another friend had a later year with the 2.6 – same problems and expenses. Though this one looks great for its age I can just imagine what it would take to keep it on the road. I’m amazed to see a number of these around SoCal today. I still smile when I see one – some good memories.
If the drivetrain is generally good and the other basic mechanical and electrical functions are OK, then I’d fix it for now. If not, I’d dump it.
Struts, tires and brakes could be necessary on any well used car. She could go out and buy a different used car, and still need to replace some or all of those things.
This is not a car that she should have probably bought in the first place. But now that she owns it, it makes sense to assess its general condition and choose accordingly.
Do you really even need a spring compressor just to replace those front shocks? The noise that you are hearing might be a failing mount or rubber insulator. So be sure to check that too.
From the pictures, it doesn’t look like anything too hard.
I say fix it. It’s not like a 200K mile sub-$1200 A-body or Taurus won’t ever need brakes, shocks, or tires.
Well if it was a second car/project I would say fix it and keep it. If it’s a college kids only ride: fix and sell, sell as is, or sell to scrap yard.
She should have kept the Toyota. People do stupid things. It’s how we learn ;).
Yeah, she should have! If she’s going to drive that old Mercedes, she might as well just walk around with a big hole in her purse. But it’s pretty easy to assume that something you got for free (or close to it) has no value, especially when you’re young. I’ve certainly made that mistake myself!
Wrong car at the wrong place, I’d assume.
Of course, you could keep such a car alive at very low cost in a country like, e.g., Germany. Here, an amazing number of W201 Benzes is still alive on the road, because owners can not only rely on the well-engineered basic design of these cars but also on a healthy infrastructure of experienced mechanics, well-sorted scrap-yards, and original MB parts, should this be necessary.
Things might be totally different in the US. Expensive parts, expensive dealerships, no scrap-yards, inexperienced mechanics.
Besides, you have to like the minimalistic approach of the W201 design. No frills, inside and out. No fake (or real) wood (at least in the first series), no chromium anywhere, except for the grille.Just solid workmanship.
If you don’t you are better off with a W124. Or try to get a well-kept W201 with the 2.6 liter six-cylinder in line. That won’t solve your infrastructure problems, of course, but you might have more fun than with the 2.3.
I agree. If I remember correctly, 2.6 has more reliable duplex chain, 2.3 has potentially problematic (especially in first years of production) simple chain, that can be a headache, if not properly maintained.
And there we come to main problem of entry-level models of premium brands – first owner and possibly second maintain a car properly. Rest of them, being happy to get premium car at low price, skimp on maintenance, relying on ‘intrinsic premium quality’….which rarely ends well. I’ve seen it happen all too often with old BMW 3 series, Golfs, Passats, old Audi 80 and 90….
True, except for one thing: VW is most assuredly not, I repeat, not a “premium brand.”
The repair costs of VWs may be stratospheric, but the car itself still has. plebeian pedigree.
🙂 I agree with you 100%, but most of people in Europe still consider VW just slightly less prestigious than BMW/ Merc/Audi trio.
VW may arguably be a car manufacturer with the most unsolved quality issues just dragging on for years…
Slap on some cheap brake pads and sell it for $6-700 as-is. With that plus the $500 you’re thinking of sinking into it, you’re now in the price range for a craptastic Volvo 240, A body, or grandma’s Escort wagon. All probably more reliable than a 25 year old Benz, or at least cheaper to fix when the inevitable break down happens.
That’s the plan, now that her grandpa just bought her a used Focus wagon.
Put the cheapest rotor and set of pads on it you can find and send it on to the next sucker. Definitely not worth putting $200 worth of struts on it when it probably needs mounts and other suspension parts too. The next thing you know she’ll have more than $2000 into a car worth $750.
That’s the plan….see comment above.
Good deal the Focus is a much better vehicle for a college student.
She’d rather have a classic Mercedes than a used Corolla and you’re wondering why?! Count your blessings on finding a young gal that even knows the difference and use the 190 to teach her and your son a lesson or two about owning an old car.
Explain at the get-go it’s a total crap shoot with that kind of mileage and age, it might work out, it might not. If something does go wrong will it be the usual bushings and leaks, things that aren’t worth fixing? Or will it be more catastrophic like the fuel system or tranny?
In Oregon you don’t have to worry about two of the biggies, smog and A/C. And she doesn’t seem to care about crusty cosmetics which is usually a deal breaker for me. This one isn’t that bad save for the B-pillar trim and probably what’s under that seat cover. The body looks great and I’d hazard a guess that the paint is original.
Not sure why you’d want to replace the wheels I love that style.
190s were like Pintos and Vegas in that they were scaled down versions of their bros. Just about the same material quality, smells and sounds as the bigger Benzes that’s why they were so expensive new. You sat lower in them though and the steering wheel was larger than in the 124s.
In some ways they felt more like an older Benz even though they were much more like the 124s in design and construction. For sure they weren’t as quiet.
Styling is of course a personal matter but I’ve always preferred the 190 over the 124. They look jauntier and more playful.
Only by diving in will she learn and be wiser down the road about owning a classic as a DD. In that sense you are buying the experiece more than the car. It’s a very important “life lesson” that will only cost you a few hundred bucks… or a few thousand 😉
I really want you guys to keep the car so let me try another angle too. This 190 could be the subject of a reoccurring series on what it’s like to have an old Benz as a daily driver.
Kiss her on the head and roll those dice!
I almost always read the article, post my thoughts, then read the rest of the comments. What a bunch of fuddy-duddies here, so concerned about money.
Let me try this… Paul find a good mechanic in the area, someone who knows these cars. Have him do the repairs at maybe a 50% rate on the labor and give him free ads in your local area for a few months.
And strike a deal with the young lady. Tell her she might have to source a few parts off of eBay. Kids today can do that in their sleep (or unfortunately while driving on their phones).
Win-win as they say.
Indeed, I am concerned about money. That’s why I have it. Pouring money and time into old cars is not conducive to financial freedom, something that is indeed very enjoyable.
Wow. Just got back from the near hurricane at Myrtle Beach. Only to find another one 3000 miles away.
I’ll offer the cliff notes version.
1) Ask if the mechanic can take a good look at the vehicle and figure out if it’s worth more dead than alive. Make sure that she pays for the inspection up front. No need for you or your son to divest yourselves through her property.
2) If it’s worth more dead, get the brakes repaired and put it online. If it still has some life left, have her buy the struts and take care of whatever preventive maintenance is required.
3) Either way teach her the basics of automotive maintenance. Fluids, filter locations, etc. Let her know that with a beater, every time she stops for gas, she should look at the oil and coolant. My then girlfriend and now wife did this with a beater for five years.
If the car is worth keeping then let her gradually invest in it. Let the two of them wash the car after it gets repaired and take baby steps into making this car, ‘her’ car.
All the best!
Thanks. Her grandpa stepped in to buy her a clean, nice-running ’02 Focus wagon. So we’ll probably just slap some pads on the front and get it out of here.
Total bummer man! Does your son want it? Maybe have it checked out like Steve says then decide?
Why would you throw good money at it to be told it is a POS that needs a bunch of work when that is not in question? That leaves less money in what should be a fund for when that Focus needs tires or brakes since it is at least worth something and doesn’t have any parts that if failed would cost more to repair than the car is worth.
Guys it goes without saying that you would have it checked out before spending a dime. My point is, if it does, give it a shot.
Why do hard working, smart people buy new cars and pay 50-60% of the price in depreciation after three years? That never made “sense” to me because they could get a three year old certified car instead and save thousands.
Obviously they are paying for the emotional benefits of that new car smell and all of the other delights that come from owning a new car. I’m pretty sure the GF has placed a high value on the rewards that come from driving a classic Mercedes. That has value too, isn’t that why we are all here? So rare to see that in a young person, especially a female.
It takes me months, sometimes years, to find an old car because I am super picky. I was looking for a DD Brougham, a nice one I could drive around but not worry about having to lock at the store or where I parked. There were none to be had but I lucked out and found a museum piece from an old guy in AZ.
I’m happy, sure, but sometimes regret not buying more of a beater because I’m always worried about the Caddy. Sorry bud those look like new blue jeans you have to sit on a towel or it will stain the leather. That actually happened and it’s insane.
I consider the cosmetic condition here to be a plus and am looking for the same thing in a Volvo 740. I’m with the kids on this one.
But it already was checked out and determined that it needed a bunch of work so why would you pay for a second opinion when the faults were self evident? Not that the first shop got it right since apparently they didn’t say anything about the missing fan shroud, a critical component if the vehicle is ever going to be operated at less than 25mph.
The first report couldn’t have been anything major, otherwise why would Paul ask if she should buy it? Also he didn’t mention much beyond the leaky strut and metal-on-metal brakes.
That is a bit of a red flag because if the PO were to let that go he probably wasn’t religious about oil changes. Those sometimes show up on a Carfax BTW, they did on mine (plus had the receipts).
But this isn’t a $5,000 10 year keeper. If it checks out, I don’t see the lack of proof on the maintenance being a big deal.
One more comment on the comparison to the 124. The 190 has the old style Mercedes seats, you can see them in the pic. Back in the day you would always hear about the “hard seats” in the 108s. But hard is relative. MB seats up until the 124 were actually quite compliant, and wide.
The big steering wheel + old style seats + new look and chassis makes the 190Es a pretty neat combo of old and new.
Now I kind of understand where you were coming from calibrick, not realizing she already bought the turd and w/o Paul’s blessing.
I never drove it before. I just now slapped a set of $19.95 pads on it, and drove it. It feels like its 50 years old and has 500k miles on it. The front suspension moans and creaks loudly (probably the bad strut), the AC is dead, the passenger side window is dead, it floats and bobs like crazy, the steering feels weird, there are numerous pieces missing from the interior, the hood release mechanism is broken, the driver’s outside mirror is broken and bent forward. etc……..
The engine and transmission are ok, though.
It’s time liquidate it…sell it for a bit over scrap, and if no one buys it, scrap it. Ain’t worth the trouble. If I’d been asked to look at it before she bought it, I would have given her a big thumbs down.
Isn’t it funny how when you’re known as a “car guy” and people ask advice, they never listen, or go in a totally different direction? A friend was interested in a Honda CR-Z and wound up with a mint 2009 330xi instead–talk about different.
Another friend was looking to replace his 2007 or so 4Runner, and showed up one day with a brand-new Land Rover LR3. I would NOT have recommended one of those, but, knock on wood, he has had no trouble with it so far.
Yet another friend owned a mid-’90s Range Rover new. In his words, “I loved it and I was so happy when I got rid of it.”
LOL I didn’t see that before posting. Time to cut this one loose but how about buying a 124 for yourself and doing a reoccurring piece on the hunt, repairs and experience. Do you already have one?
calibrick: no, but I’d be very tempted if a nice one happened to come my way. That might be getting harder to come by, given their age. But it might be a fun project, turning back the clock some 20 years. Of course, they say you can’t go back, which might just be why I haven’t yet 😉
Paul,
I recently was presented with the same conundrum – a friend of mine was interested in buying an ’89 190D, which was the last year a diesel engine was offered in the W201 series. The guy wanted $2500 for this Benz and it had, I believe 170k on it. I immediately talked to my mechanic, who is a Mercedes/Volvo specialist to ask him his opinion about the car.
He (my mechanic) told me to tell my friend that it would be the absolute worst thing (the Benz) he would be spending his money on, and that he in no good conscience would recommend any W201, let alone a diesel version, to anyone. Personally, I have never cared for the W201, although I have driven a few examples. They make my 1991 Volvo 740 look like a Model T in comparison.
“Let her know that with a beater, every time she stops for gas, she should look at the oil and coolant.”
You should also check the status of your hood release cable, because it’s a blast when those break.
The other thing I just noticed is that this car needs a fan shroud. W/o it the car will overheat driving around town come July or Aug if it isn’t already running hotter than it should. Neglect that and it could be time for a new radiator, hoses and thermostat if she gets lucky, or a head gasket and new head, or just a used engine.
So one more reason that it should get the brakes fixed and put up for sale NOW. If she really really wants to keep it then fix brakes, fix cooling system, then tires but still it should not get struts no matter what as that is just throwing good money after bad.
As far as the Focus goes, 2002 should be one of the good ones. The 2000’s were known as the bad ones, after the first year of production the problems seem to have been sorted out, some people say to avoid the 2001’s but my 2001 has needed only one repair (broken wire in the connector at the coil pack). The twin cam duratec is considered more reliable than the ancient single cam SPI, nearly all wagons had the twin cam. The early ones pre 2005 also have the nicer pre-decontented interior.
I was pleasantly surprised how tight and nice it felt. It has the Duratec. Whay a contrast from my brief ride in the Benz.
The Focus was still a bit hit-or-miss in 2002. I dumped my ZX3 after 30 months and 28,000 miles, two batteries, three radios (!) and a highly suspect transmission that occasionally refused to downshift at critical times, though the dealer never could find anything wrong. Ford gradually improved the Focus every year, but it really didn’t iron out all the flaws until the second-gen decontented models.
Even handicapped with the auto, mine was still an incredibly fun little car and the most contemporary subcompact available from the Big 3 at the time.
Some people I worked for fixed one of these at 13k kms it got Tboned, they pulled it straight but a new passengers seat cost $3.5k the car fixed was worth 30k or so but a matching seat could not be found used , That was in Aussie here in Aotearoa lawns are littered with these baby Benz not the roads so much mostly the lawns they die, they get terminal rust early in life if from Singapore, they’re worth nuthing going anyway so nobody bothers hunting down the spares.
“… her Grandpa just bought her a 2002 Focus wagon from a used car lot. It runs like a top”
Well, that’s good. They’ll be some irony though if the Ford needs brakes or shocks in the next few months.
I do slightly feel bad for the 190E, seeing how it’s getting the boot more due to maintenance issues rather than reliability woes.
Yes but brakes and struts on the Focus Wagon won’t be more than the car is worth and neither would a major failure. The 27 year old Mercedes was past it’s practical useful service life while the 11 year old Focus is not, unless of course it already has 250-300K on it.
I drove the Focus; the suspension felt excellent, almost like new. New tires. It drove very nicely; pretty much like new, or like a rental you’d pick up today at Avis. If it needs pads, that’s always a very cheap fix, which I’m willing to do for her.
Read my comment above; it has many serious issues.
” the hood release mechanism is broken”
Bah! No Mercy. Send it to hell.
Sounds like Paul’s got a good sales lead here…
One thing I’ve learned again and again (took several times to sink in) is that money aside, “normal” people do not desire to spend vast amounts of time on a needy car. Even more importantly I do not want to take responsibility for someone else’s needy car and spend vast amounts of my time, which is where situations like this invariably head.
IF it were my daughter, I would keep her in the Benz and spend the $$ fixing it. She would be much safer in that than a newer tin can Corolla or beater off of Craigslist. Cheap insurance. I don’t want to get any calls from the hospital or police, or morgue, if she ever gets T-boned by some a-hole in an Expedition with no brakes and bad tires. She has at least has a fighting chance in the 190.
Without going into the details of which car is safer, why is that suddenly the car that 10 years ago was perfectly good and safe, it’s suddenly a deathtrap from hell? I mean, it’s not like I am going to give my son a Tata Nano to drive in the highway, but I am not going to freak out just because his car doesn’t have the latest testicles air bag, or automatic stupid kid brakes.
He’s only 8 right now, but when the time comes I will try for him to be a safe driver and when he goes out, pray that he comes home in one piece. I repeat, I am not criticizing people that buy safe cars, but most of the time the human factor is what decides if you survive an accident or not, not the perceived safety of the car you drive.
Its the human element I am worried about, esp. other humans on the road who may or may not have insurance, and who may or may not be driving in cars that are well maintained. Would you rather have your kid in a 2000 pound Nissan Sentra, or a 3500 pound Mercedes/Volvo/Saab when some drunk coming out of a bar runs a stop sign and hits your son? For a $900 car my money is on the European iron.
A Sentra hasn’t weighed 2000 lb for two decades.
We have a pretty good MB-BMW-VOLVO parts wholesaler here that sells me OE part # parts for 50-75% off dealer retail. I could probably have done the job for 1/2 the price of the quotes and then made a deal to get some skim off the final selling price. Especially since you could present the buyer with a long list of repairs at retail price. Too bad so far…
I am late to the party and that MB is a total dud, a worthless money pit as the vast majority of old German stuff. I take that back it is all crap. The only high miler I would ever recommend to anyone would be a Corolla, and even it will break at 200,000 mikes, it is just the parts are cheap and the genuine ones are as good as stock, which were pretty good.
The Focus of this era is a good buy, as they are a nice driving car. By 2002 they were pretty good but like a lot of American stuff, they are also pretty hit and miss. There aren’t many bad ones, maybe one in ten, but if you get one, it is a real pain. In fact, were someone I know want a cheap car I would tell them a Focus of the age and the wagons are great. Can be had for as low as $2000 here but spending more on a low km one would be better.
Too bad. Those are unbelieveably easy to wrench on. Changing the shocks is a 30 minute job with an additional jack as the only special tool required. another 15 for the complete front brake job, as performed on my girl’s 124 (next to no difference to those, designwise) a month ago.
Also MB’s parts (yes, even the genuine dealer’s ones) are amongst the cheapest in germany and it’s not too hard to make use of it, thanks to the interwebz. (front brake rotors and pads for $93, pair of shocks by sachs $172) not quite chevy price range but still far away from 900 bucks.
for those reasons the 201s and 124s are first choice for a daily driver by half-talented leisure time grease monkeys with empty pockets over here.
As a mechanic, I see ‘poor’ people make the same mistakes all the time. They buy an old shed, carry out zero repairs or proactive maintenance and then when the car has so many issues that it is undrivable, they throw their hands in the air, say its crap and then go out and buy another shed and repeat.
All old cars have issues and need to be kept on top of, even the mythical Japanese stuff which is often REALLY worn out as the people that buy older models are not buying a 90s Corolla for its aesthetic or dynamic qualities but because they read on the internet that it will do 500000miles without having to lift the hood or spend any money on it..
.Buying a car from a tight wad invariably will lead to tears as you start discovering the issues that have been ignored / bodged over the years..
201s are great cars and very DIY friendly and most parts can be bought from Ebay very reasonably. Sad to see a basically sound car be thrown away due to neglect and ignorance.
PS Great site ! Greetings from the UK !
Yes, some cars will do amazing mileage, but there is no avoiding wrenching on them. That said, Japanese stuff make good high-milers as they are usually relatively easy to work on and the OEM stuff was good to begin with.
In all reality, running cars with more than 250,000 km on them simply isn’t worth the time and money invested.
As per my comment above, this one has many, many issues…not worth it.
Its funny because there is a 86 300 on the local classified section that is selling for $400 From the pics it looks like a clean car that is in need of fenders. Inside there is not a rip or scratch and everything is how it should be, the outside, besides the fenders is clean rust free and wearing its brown paint very well. I was thinking about taking It but when I emailed the owner he told me their were no registration papers for it. The thing of it is it even comes with a stack of reciepts for recent work done and even mentions suspension work and new brakes all around. Lost redgo papers are as easy as filling out a few forms and getting the previous owners signature and are not an issue to me. But what is an issue is what else will this car need and how much will it cost? In the end I think the wounders are too much. But Im still not sure.
I received a 1986 190E about a year ago as a trade from a couple that is financing their third vehicle from me.
A few things I can tell you. Not just from that car, but from the 12 or so 190 and 230 models that I owned before it.
1) The A/C systems on these things are a complete and utter pain.
2) If you find one where the transmission has been serviced at all, consider yourself favored from the gods.
3) A well-maintained W201 does have a wonderful highway ride to ride and a surprising feeling of solidity. However, the interior just tends to fall apart no matter what you do to these models unless it is garage kept. At least out here in Georgia, they don’t handle the heat very well.
4) You have to keep a real sharp eye on the coolant temp. One benefit from owning a Mercedes from this era is that the needle actually helps you take care of problems before they arise. I love Mercedes for doing this.
5) Finally… I can’t tell you how much I hate the electronics in these models. The electronics on European models from this era is generally terrible. But the W201 generation seems to be among the worst of the more popular models of that time.
Ok, rant off. Time to take the family to the Tellus Science Museum. A great place in the middle of nowhere that also happens to display a GM EV-1.
http://tellusmuseum.org/
These things can be said about pretty much any old MB. The A/C did improve much in later cars when the Germans finally switched to Harrison Air units. The real issue was few Germans wanted A/C until very recently.
I think we are all in agreement that this car should be sold based on Paul’s test drive. I was confused, I thought he had already done that.
The more interesting question is whether a 190E in better shape would make a good daily driver. I got excited when it looked like we could answer that with a test case of the subject 190. My own German hobby car purchases have been lower mile cars and I’ve never been disappointed. But does the same hold true for a much cheaper 150K mile car, as a daily driver?
From what I’ve heard the 190s can be good used cars. Herman gave examples of easy fixes. Like he said the key is finding a “half-talented grease monkey” familiar with the car. Also the GF would have to help source parts off of the web. Not too terribly difficult but alas she has a Focus now.
Canucknucklehead since you believe all 190s are crap could you please tell us what the problem areas are from your experience? From Steve’s comment sounds like a typical old car to me, not a time bomb.
Where did I say that?
Any car with 200,000 miles on it is a moneypit. If anyone wants to toss their cash down a sink hole, have at ‘er. Just don’t whine about being broke.
“…a worthless money pit as the vast majority of old German stuff. I take that back it is all crap.”
You and some of the others are saying these 190s are crap. Then we have a German and Brit saying they are great cars, very DIY friendly and unbelievably easy to wrench on.
Usually means much lower labor costs, which is what will kill you on an old European driver. Well that and the parts costs but that’s not an issue with the net, like I’ve been saying.
Steve seems to be in the middle.
I thought why not do a test case. Ideally with about 150K or so and records. I was excited when the GF’s car looked like it might be a decent one, hard to shop for 27 year old cars.
The key is finding a mechanic who knows them. In my town it’s a Polish guy who has incredibly low hourly rates and works out of a defunct gas station. He knows exactly where to look and what to fix so it’s not an expensive, frustrating trial-and-error thing with someone who doesn’t know the car. I think that’s what the European guys are trying to tell you.
That’s always kind of been the way with old European cars on this side of the Atlantic When I was in my shady used car phase, all my partners were Polish. Those guys could really fix things, not just swap parts out and we sold old Merc stuff all the time. At my age I just couldn’t be bothered driving old cars. Too much time involved keeping them roadworthy. To anyone who wants do do it, I say have at ‘er. But a good used car can be had for $2000 and a new Corolla for $200 a month.
And yes, this particular 190 is a worthless money pit. You could find a much nicer one for what it would cost to bring this to roadworthiness.
Caution! Almost any high mileage car is a cheap and reliable daily driver and a bottomless money pit at the same time (if its not utter crap by design, its only a pit then).
First case applies when you are totally into DIY. Me and all of my buddies are rocking 20+ old german or swedish iron and none of them would hand his car to a mechanic. If you do, case two applies.
It is not necessary that you get ripped off, but the hour rates which the workshop needs to work profitably are immense. I also imagine that a euro mechanic in the states can pretend to do magic and rocket science and charge corresponding money and get away with that, since the technology looks not quite familiar to most, same is sometimes the case with detroit iron over here.
Thus, a metric wrench set and the capability to use it is urgently required for a soon-to-be AltMercedesFahrer, become your own half-talented grease monkey! Those MBs have a nicely shallow learning curve.
We use to do most service and repairs during meets or just with some beers and bbq in someones driveway. A nice alternative for spending loads of money for either installment rates or mechanic bills.
So true and applies to any car unless you are doing the work yourself. Still not impossible to find honest capable mechanics, in a big city area at least. They can keep these cars going for you without breaking the bank, mine certainly have. The owner’s part is buying the right car.
Couldn’t resist paraphrasing the old sailing aphorism “(Insert favorite car name, MB in this case) are holes in the road that you throw money into.”
And the other old saw, that the two best days you had owning (blank) were the day you bought it and the day you sold it!
Good luck getting rid of the 190. I recently took an old ’92 Bonneville SE off my friend’s hands with 210K on the clock thinking that I could put a little elbow grease into it and make some extra date-night money. He was going to junk it. The A/C worked okay…otherwise, it sounds like it was in about the same rickety shape as the 190. Maybe worse. I cleaned it up and did a few minor repairs (brake pads, etc.), but I couldn’t give it away. The struts sounded like bowling pins crashing down every time I hit the slightest bump and I wasn’t about to sink good money into a car that was obviously breathing its last gasps of life. Apparently, everyone else who came to see it felt the same way. Finally, I sold it at a considerable loss just to get it out of my driveway. Lesson learned. Hopefully, the star on the hood of the MB will spark some interest. Maybe a piece about experiences with our dying/dead cars? To scrap or sell? I’m curious where others draw the line for a car’s point of no return. Should make for some entertaining stories in the comment section…anyway, good luck.
Well, I keep saying this but we love our 2001 Focus ZTS with DOHC Zetec motor. It’s got 200k km on it and still drives quiet and tight. I think the sporty models had much higher quality suspension bits, I test drove a base wagon for a relative once and it was so sacked out and crashy it was like driving a silverware drawer.
Good call on doing whatever it takes to make the Merc go away. Once again it’s amazing how people don’t consult or listen to the family car guy, but come for advice and free work after the deal is done. All families are alike…
Doug, 200,000 km really isn’t that much anymore, especially if you are doing mostly highway driving. I would also think you don’t run the bag off your car, too, while that other Focus you write about had been driven hard.
Well, here’s a Yank owner of an ’88 190E 2.3 who agrees fully with Herman. Yes, my 296,000 US miles car needs annual upkeep, and, yes, parts are not inexpensive (though junk yards often have quite acceptable alternatives to Deutschland OEM items). Seriously, I think any of you who suggests a 190 was a POS either have never driven, owned, or worked on one- or are pathetic American snobs who fancy Benzes as more than basic workhorse autos. Bruno Sacco certainly wouldn’t agree with you nay-sayers…and he knows way more about the car than any one of us commenting here. In 25 years I’ve replaced a water pump, a radiator, and had the valves re-done. BTW one doesn’t have to pull the entire dashboard out to replace the heater core- the access is gained under the wiper housing, which I found when I put in a new one. I work on those repairs and maintenance areas for which I have tools, and a good mechanic handles the rest. I should fully anticipate another 296,000 US miles.
Which is not to say that the car shown in this post is worth saving. Daimler-Benz made 1.8 million, so one could easily search for a more reliable example.
The maintenance is pretty expensive for Mercedes-Benz cars. If the car has big problems, it doesn’t worth the price for reapair. I own a W124 E250 with over 400 000 km on board that is in perfect condition, and even so the maintenance is expensive. Mercedes are picky cars, no matter their age. They don’t want every type of engine oil, transmission oil, antifreeze, diesel, etc. You must use what MB recommends in their BEVO sheets. Also the parts are quite expensive even in Europe, where i live.
If you would like to sell the 190, as is, contact me. I am interested in a fewparts,so I would be interested in purchasing the 190.
SO these posts are 4 years old ,but if Mr Boyer is still looking..I have a 1986 190e
for sale.
170m auto silver on grey leather.
Its drives,gave up trying to fix ac.
Moonroof,clear coat starting to peel,but no rust or dents,clean inside and out.
$900 as is OBO.
marksbargains@gmail.com Louisville KY..