Posted at the Cohort by Foden Alpha
Here’s serendipitous combination of car and shop name. Too bad there’s no Mercedes. Maybe there’s one in the shop.
That Daimler is of course a UK Daimler, so there’s nor actual connection to Benz, as the German Daimler Benz marriage didn’t take place until…1926 (I remembered that right; I guess I’m not quite ready for memory care yet). More specifically, it’s a Daimler Majestic. You might be surprised to know that it first saw the light of day in 1958, not 1948. Which might explain why Daimler wasn’t around much longer as an independent company, having been bought by Jaguar in 1960.
I think that Jaguar bought the Daimler concern for it’s manufacturing facilities. Daimlers were preferred by many members of the British Royal family. I know that Jaguar continued to make a Daimler DS420 limo into the 70’s or 80s. Jaguar used the Daimler name on their higher spec models. It was differentiated form the normal series run by the “fluted” grille header bar and license light plinth. These were marketed in the U.S. as a Sovereign or Vanden Plas model. I suppose that the Daimler name might be mistaken as a reference to Mercedes Benz. Daimler had a neat little 278 cid.V8 that was designed by Edward Turner of Triumph motorcycle fame. Jag used the motor in the limo and that funky little sports car. It was also used in the series 2 S type, but was later replaced by a larger displacement Jag XJ engine.
Here’s a photo of the sports car.
“I know that Jaguar continued to make a Daimler DS420 limo into the 70’s or 80s.”
Even into the 90s! A local has one of the last, I think 1992.
The 278 was the 4.5L in the Majestic Major, the 2.5L in the SP250/Dart is only 155 cid.
Here’s a photo of the limo.
One last thing, here’s a pic of the V8. “You got a hemi in that thing?” Yes, i do.
Fascinated a bit to see how Daimler or more specifically the BSA Group would have fared under better management instead of being acquired by Jaguar.
They could have also made better decisions such as ditching Lanchester (and the ill-fated Lanchester Sprite) in favour of reviving the FWD BSA Cars marque with a British adaptation of the DKW F9* prototype taken as war reparations, one of which was actually seized by the British military who recognised the car as a prototype. The DKW F9 could have been to BSA Cars, what the DKW RT125 aka BSA Bantam was for BSA motorcycles.
Envision the relationship between a revived BSA Cars and Daimler to roughly parallel the relationship between DKW (aka later Audi) and Mercedes-Benz (when the latter owned the former before selling DKW to Volkswagen), albeit one where the relationship worked out much better (beyond the DKW-based Mercedes-Benz MB100) with the likes of Trevor Fiore being the rough equivalent of Mercedes-Benz’s Bruno Sacco.
Trevor Fiore was involved with Fissore who developed the South American Auto Union 1000-based DKW-VEMAG Fissore, which also looked superficially similar to the German DKW F102.
The Frazer Nash DKW prototype provides a rough idea as to how BSA could develop a post-war replacement for the BSA Scout to challenge other small British sportscars, with possible elements from the Saab Sonnets and Saab Quantum III
A 4-cylinder engine derived from the Daimler V8 (as done by Pininfarina’s Leonardo Fioravanti* with the 2.5-litre V8) could have potentially been the BSA Cars rough analogue of the Mercedes-Benz M118 / Volkswagen EA831 used in the Audi F103 / 100, Volkswagen LT and Porsche 924.
As for what would have replaced the Daimler V8 and related 4-cylinder variant, perhaps both Mercedes-Benz and Porsche (specifically the front-engined models) would again serve as a rough guide, especially considering the Porsche 944/968 and Mitsubishi included two counter-rotating balance shafts running at twice the engine speed for large displacement 4-cylinder engines.
Which is interesting since it was originally invented in 1904 by British engineer Frederick Lanchester (the same Lanchester whose company later became part of the BSA Group), and further developed and patented in 1975 by Mitsubishi Motors, balance shafts carry eccentric weights which produce inertial forces that balance out the unbalanced secondary forces, making a four-cylinder engine feel as smooth as a six-cylinder engine.
So it was possibly within the BSA Group’s capability to further develop and patent the idea like Mitsubishi did in 1975, where while Daimlers would make use of 6-cylinder/V8+ engines (akin to the Porsche 928, etc). BSA Cars would potentially make Porsche/Mitsubishi-like large displacement 4-cylinders mounted longitudinally engines for its front-engined FWD / 4WD cars as a USP like Audi did via 5-cylinder engines and 4WD (along with potentially a mid-engined Toyota MR2 / Pontiac Fiero like car akin to the Frua-styled 1974 Audi 100S Coupe Speciale mittelmotor).
*- http://heinkelscooter.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-second-dkw-f9-prototype-discovered.html
*- https://www.landcrab.net/mainframes/main_pinafarina1800.htm
Of course, you’re assuming that BSA had the intelligence to do such things. Instead the company had Lord and Lady Docker, and that was only the Fifties. Once you got into the Sixties, things got really bad (the unit vertical twin with ONE main bearing?). Then Umberslade Hall.
At least the Seventies were short.
Indeed the Dockers particularly Lady Docker are a problem and this alternate scenario does not mention how the motorcycle could have been improved, yet the above merely highlights what was already largely within the realm of plausibility at the BSA Group.
Perhaps it is more likely the DKW-derived BSA Cars take off to the point of being able to hide / offset Lady Docker’s expenses, whilst also giving Lord Docker the confidence to pursue the ill-fated Lanchester Sprite project. At the same time at least BSA Cars would be able to quickly move on from the two-stroke engines thanks to a 4-cylinder version of the Daimler V8.
It looks like it is the Majestic Major. A Majestic (6 cylinder in line) but with the fantastic new 4.5 litre V8 engine which transformed the car into a fast one. Faster than the more modern Jaguar Mk10 – I have an old Autocar test of it and it is all superlatives.
Very old fashioned though, look at that huge steering wheel and simple but nice wooden dashboard. Very rare in LHD – a handful exist here in the Netherlands. I would love to own one.
I’ve always assumed that Jaguar dis-continued the 4.5 litre V8 because they hadn’t invented it, and it could overshadow their straight six. The small V8 was no threat.
The small V8 was no threat, but the mooted body update for the Dart/SP250 was canned because the model encroached on the E. The story is that Lyons put a 4.5 in a Mk10 body and it embarrassed the XK-powered version.
Not sure what’s a more appealing Q-ship; a V12 Mk10 or a 4.5 hemi V8 Mk10.
Lyons always seems like a pragmatist, which makes it odd he didn’t adopt the V8. It was a much better unit than the XK’s, about 1/3 lighter, higher specific output, higher revving, better on fuel. It also didn’t have 1930’s and ’40’s tech like the rope seal crankshaft, so it shared a lot less of the sump oil with fellow road users, and did more miles before needing a rebuild.
Surely the small version was a threat? The performance figures for a 2.4 Jag Mk2 are pretty woeful. A 2.5 Daimler MK2 was quite respectable, and as a rare manual, very good indeed.
Part of the reason was the 220 hp 4.5-litre Daimler V8’s power output being underrated by around 40 hp (not to mention the unproduced 280-290+ hp 5-litre version), another was Jaguar’s own ill-fated plans to develop a 60-degree V8 from the Jaguar V12 instead of somehow managing to develop a 90-degree V8 that carries over much of the architecture of the 60-degree V12 (akin to how Mercedes-Benz recently managed to built a 60-degree V6 and 90-degree V8 on the same production line).
Jaguar could have made the 140 hp 2.5-litre Daimler V8 obsolete had they produced the planned -185+ hp 2.6-3.0-litre all-alloy short-stroke versions of the Jaguar XK6.
The problem with Daimler’s conservative styling in the ’50s is that it effectively restricted exports to countries with a tradition of buying British and/or those without a native auto industry.
A Jaguar sedan appealed to a rakish buyer seeking something different to make them stand out while a Daimler, Rover or Humber landed in the US, France or Germany found itself designed for a buyer who would not yet consider a foreign car.
Comes the time to de-carbonise the Fluid Flywheel.
No, Borg Warner DG in these. US-style engine engine (and power), US transmission.
Had onwe of those in a 61 A110 Westmonster (Austin Westminster) very interesting transmission with some great features, mine broke the reverse band, it was moon beams for an overhaul on a $100 car.
BC licence plates…Benz Transmission BC…GoogleGoogleGoogle…Found it in Maple Ridge.
It’s a Majestic Major alright – as in major dowager. It’s what you get when you ask the carrossier whose zenith in styling was the London taxi to style your new upper-crust conveyance. Namely, a London taxi with what appears to be a large coffin sticking out the bum. Rather resembles Queen Victoria in a bustle. On castors. We are a lot bemused.
Ofcourse, in a plot twist only the English car industry could devise, this two ton Majestic Malignance had 4-wheel discs, a perfectly superb alloy-headed hemi, and was seriously fast in 1961, when very cars of any type – let alone one that might be mistook for a wardrobe – could do 120mph.
Given that they made less than 1200 of these, there seems to be a decent number of survivors.
Looks more like a non-Major Majestic, without the extended boot.
Oh. I think you’re right, dammit. Well that just makes it a really dull – if slightly more gainly – wardrobe, wafted by a low-compression long-stroke ye olde six. A bustleless Queen Vic who couldn’t pick her skirts, so no plot twist after all.
Yes it was quite a weapon the Daimler Majestic Major very fast and capable even smaller sister the Conquest held a class track record somewhere on a UK racetrack, the big Daimler was suited to the unrestricted motorways of its era like few other cars.
About the name Benz…
For many years after 1926 merger, the corporate name was Daimler-Benz rather than Mercedes-Benz. The latter is used for its vehicle. When we shipped our 450SEL from Germany to the United States in 1982, I recalled seeing the registration card, export document, and shipping label on our car saying DB 450SEL.
After Daimler-Benz AG merged with Chrysler Corporation, the name changed to DaimlerChrysler, jettionsing Benz. When the “Merger of Equals” ended, the name should have reverted to Daimler-Benz once again. It didn’t: the current name is Daimler AG. Of course, the vehicles are still called Mercedes-Benz.
Adding more “disdain” for Benz, there’s “Mercedes-Maybach” for the opulent trim and “Mercedes-AMG” for high performance upgrade.
Now, how is Daimler AG able to retain its sole name when Jaguar owns the rights to name, Daimler? Not to mention separating the British Daimler from German Daimler…
Daimler Majestic Major; the Carol Danvers of cars.
Am I correct in assuming that one is “Dame-ler” and one is “Dime-ler”. By the way, I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen a British Daimler in the US. I saw some comments mentioned the Royal Family’s use of the Daimler version of the Mk10/420, but in fact there were also Daimler versions of the XJ6 and XJ12, complete with fluted grille.