Benoît has been posting a number of finds from France at the CC Cohort. These two, posted close together, caught my eye; well, the SM always catches my eye. But I couldn’t help but notice a decided similarity between them, primarily in their rear quarters. The shape of the rear side window, the angle of the C pillar, and the large wrap-around hatch. There’s a general similarity in their slab-sidedness with the crease running through it to relieve it somewhat, and the shape of the front fender and its wheel opening. Wonder how the 924 would look with fender skirts?
If you’re not seeing it as much as I am, just enjoy them anyway. It’s hard not to. And it’s not like the SM didn’t influence a few others too, one way or another; it was pretty radical for 1970.
Could be. I’ve always seen a Citroën SM influence on the 71 to 73 Buick Riviera from the side view. It was quite a car.
Both look nice. I think it’s a stretch to say that the Porsche design was inspired by the Citroen. The Porsche 924, was designed taking styling hints from the bigger and much more expensive flagship Porsche 928 model.
However, the shape is universally known as a “Sports” car silhouette in general. A Long hood, with a compact center interior compartment, followed by a short semi hatch-like back stubby rear end. I think the “Foxy Lady” 1972-1982 Chevrolet Corvette showed this style of silhouette the best!
Citroen is a automotive Legend that has stood the test of time. Porsche 924 not so much, to many a forgettable knock off Porsche that used a front engine layout. Which is a big no no to many die hard Porsche fans. It’s why they rejected the 928 front engine V8 & the 924 (both were flops). It was a betrayal to Porsche fans.
I personally like the 924 though.
The 924 came out before the 928. And it goes back even further, since it was originally going to be a VW/Porsche like the 914, but was put on hold for a couple of years before Porsche took it up as their own project. So if anything, the 928 was somewhat inspired by the 924, although there’s quite a lot of difference too, especially at he rear.
Paul Niedermeyer
I have to research what you said first to see if it is true. I have several Porsche books at home that I have read. I do not recall a chapter in the book that confirms what you just typed. It may be true, but the 928 came out in the 70’s, I believe the 924 was developed for the 80’s era.
I cannot think of any 70’s Porsche that even slightly resembled what the 924 became. I will look into this. I’m not a Porsche guru, but I cannot wrap my brain around why Porsche would design it’s ultra expensive flagship model. Based on or around it’s dowdy entry level model.
That makes little sense to do that, especially since neither the 924 or 928 would be sharing interchangeable parts, engines, transmissions etc. You may be correct, I will check into this claim.
Porsche 914 was a roadster, much like the BMW Z3. The 924 was not though.
Well, that claim was based strictly on their first production dates, which was 1976 for the 924 and 1977 for the 928.
The key point is that that what became the 924 was never intended to be a Porsche at all. After the joint Porsche/VW VG was disbanded in 1973, the EA425 became a VW-Audionly project. Which is why it’s full of VW/Audi parts, and was built in Audi’s factory.
But after VW chief Leiding departed in 1974, VW was overextended and the project killed. That’s when Porsche decided they wanted it for themselves after all, even though it was still to be built in Audi’s factory.
But to get back to the main point, I can’t verify the exact time lines for the body design for these two. It is theoretically possible that the 928 design was locked in first. But Porsche was involved in both, so obviously there was a family resemblance.
BUT: if the Porsche rear end was truly inspired by the AMC Pacer, as is commonly claimed, the Pacer didn’t arrive until the fall of 1974. That would have been quite late in the 928’s development, but possible. But if so, then the 924 was clearly already fully designed by then, since it was already locked in by 1974, when VW canceled it. It was not restyled after that cancellation. So it would seem the 924 was styled first.
Paul Niedermeyer
I stand corrected, you where right the 924 did come out in 1977 a year before the 928. Your write up makes sense now in regards to the release date of the 924.
Your other points seem accurate as well. That’s why I like these comments posted. I learn more and more about various models. Wow, then if the 924 came about in 77, the car would have looked ultra modern and futuristic by 77′ design standards! impressive.
Never liked the 928 though, I simple cannot understand that car at all. Looks like something “Mork & Mindy” would have rode in.
Even disregarding the launch dates one can see that the 928 is a later design by the lack of rain gutters and fully integrated bumpers.
The rear of the 928 most resembles an AMC Pacer!
Unless the designer publicly admits his influences, it seems futile trying to conclude whether design A inspired design B. It could even be unconscious; a designer idly flips past an arresting, novel design in a periodical, then later adopts elements of it into his without realizing it.
In this post i wasn’t trying to make the argument that the SM actually did directly influence the 924 to any great degree. I just happened to see these two pictures at the Cohort almost next to each other and noticed certain similarities.
It’s impossible to know exactly what influenced what, unless it’s either all-too obvious, or the designer admitted as such, which is rare. but clearly the SM was an influential car in the early 70s in Europe, and undoubtedly it did exert some degree if influence on the designers working at that time.
You’re right to a certain extent, but sometimes its nice to trace a line.
David North – who actually shaped the Red Car/Toronado – commented most kindly on Paul’s musings about its similarities with an Exner scale clay.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/did-this-1962-exner-model-inspire-the-1966-toronado/
Futile? Maybe. Fun? Yes.
I always thought the SM hatch glass inspired the Nissan F10 & 310 cars. Along with the 3rd gen. Camaro & Firebirds. Compared to the SM’s glass hatch, same sorta? curves to them all.
Chris4488
Not sure how much the Citroen SM influenced foreign cars like Nissan etc.
The Camaro & Firebird however, were always designed from the Chevrolet Corvette perspective. Think of both as a poor mans, cheap version of a Corvette.
That doesn’t mean the F- bodies or the Corvette itself for that matter didn’t have any outside inspiration. The Corvette’s 77 bubble window was a pretty close in execution to the Porsche 911 Targa, with it’s central roll bar and the way the body was sculpted up to the glass. The third gen F bodies were definitely a preview of the C4 but the angle of the C pillar is not something shared with the Vette and does seem to have a look similar to the 924 sans quarter window. There’s also quite a bit of RX7 influence in them as well(which is also loaded with 924)
XRTMatt
Not too sure about that Matt.
If you look at any Chevrolet Corvette book that shows the evolution of the car since it’s inception. You can see a ton of Prototype versions of the car in various stages of development.
Corvette’s has always seemed to take their styling elements from the previous model, and concept cars. I think the opposite took place than what you mentioned.
America Knew that it’s #1 premium international Flagship genuine sports car had to be unique as possible. That is had to develop a shape and aura about it that did not resemble or favor the competition in any way.
The bad P.R. alone of being accused of copying another sports car could have sunk the Corvette success when it was first introduced in 53′, or 57, I cannot recall the exact year. Every Corvette since then has been an evolution of the same design.
I use to think the tail lights of the Corvette 1972 and forward were inspired by the Ferrari years ago. However, when you take a second look, the tail lights are just the updated version of the “Stingray” quad tail lights and have nothing to do with Ferrari.
Japanese designers were certainly aware of European and American design — Nissan, in particular, periodically hired Italian designers like Pininfarina, as Don Andreina has written about here. How that translated to actual Japanese products obviously varied, but an inspirational link between the F10 Cherry and the SM seems wholly plausible, and as Chris notes, the resemblance is pretty strong (moreso than with the 924, although I see where Paul is coming from).
The SM was a really in-your-face design, and I don’t think anyone who attended any of the big international auto shows (or even read the press coverage) at the time of its launch would have been unaware of it, least of all another professional auto designer.
I make a different connection between the SM and the F-bodies.
Both the Citroën SM and the Firebird Trans Am make me think of Burt Reynolds.
Thanks for these vids. Really like the one with the Citroen. Funny how Burt Reynolds starts off putting his drink in the SM and ends with putting the SM in the drink.
I’d say partially, the bubble hatch execution is definitely similar but the greenhouse really isn’t close, the SM’s beltline follows the overall teardrop profile, with a blocky quarter window with a hofmeister kink, while the 924 has a lot of hip/cokebottle to the profile and a more curvy window following the hips. Given it’s roots I’d say there’s a greater design parity with the VW Scirroco’s side windows, but since that too came after the SM I’ll go back further and say the 924 also reminds me of the Ford Pinto.
Hey, before pelting me with rocks let’s not forget the 928’s American subcompact greenhouse inspiration!
Wonder no more
Ow! My eyes!
Yep, the skirt is the missing link.
It’s the Porsche version of the ’72 Pontiac Luxury LeMans!
Ha! That was right on time, GN.
Does skirts do the trick?
Oh well, this brings us right to what passed us un the HWY in Florida last week. 🙂
I have seen pictures of a this vehicle before, but do not recollect what it is, neither where the inspirations came from.
A first generation Honda Insight!
Now, that’s a rare bird…
Not nearly as rare as a 924, let alone SM.
David Saunders
Wow, I have to agree with the skirt own it’s a dead ringer for the 924 inspiration.
Just that one element of a rear wheel skirt shows the missing link.
Thanks for showing.
I don’t see the resemblance myself but when you put the pics side by side there are similarities. On the SM, the low-cut, falling belt line and rising skirts draw your eye to the tapering tail in person. That makes the car for me. The 924 brought new ideas too but they were shared with the 928 and copied so many times that the look has become ubiquitous. You can’t help but associate the 924/944 with other sporty cars. The SM is pure luxury and in a world of its own. I see more American influence in the 924/928, perhaps some Mercedes C111.
The 928 and 924 seem to be concurrent shapes initiated around the same time under Harm Lagaay. Then the 928 was put on hold and the 924 pushed into production first. The 928 being the senior and a less compromised shape appears to be the ur-design for this duo.
These are early 924 concepts.
Interestingly, early ‘production’ prototypes of the 924 had vents along the side under the rear canopy.
928 mockups around 73 before being put on hold (bottom row).
I should have just gone straight to your excellent 928 post for all of the details and timing: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/uncategorized/curbside-classic-blasphemy-with-a-big-butt/
Hmm, those early concepts look like Alpine (A310, I think). I won’t bother Wiki-searching to see which one came first, as I’ll be corrected or informed here by the CC-gurus, but I think the A310 preceded the Porsche, but came after the SM.
I went ahead and looked it up–the A310 debuted in ’70. But if you want to continue to play the inspiration game, the A310 was pretty clearly (in my opinion) inspired by Giugiaro’s design for the DeTomaso Mangusta, which came out in 1967.
Good call on the Mangusta. Catalogue makes it a 66.
Judging by the info Desmo posted below, it might be that the actual ur-shape was the SP2, which I assumed had been created in South America. The A310/Aerovette-type shapes of the early 928 drawings suggest things started in a difference headspace, then might have been rebooted by the curvy SP2 into 924 and 928 concurrently.
Wow, that Citroen must have looked like a car from another planet in 1970!
I was 14 that year and Citroens weren’t even on my automotive radar then.
I give Citroën a lot of credit for aiming high, even if the SM was problematic for long-term ownership (i.e., finding mechanic(s) able to deal with both the chassis & the engine).
Those Citroen’s look like they’re from another planet in 2017. Some designs are just so far out that the world never does catch up to them.
After pondering over that Citroen for days now, besides being what appears to be a pillarless hardtop, I can’t think of anything else to say except I find the design to be an abomination.
The almighty wind tunnel makes every vehicle look like that.
The new Car & Driver mag arrived yesterday. I was just looking at the the Alfa Romeo SUV (yes…) and I could have easily believed it was the next Mazda CX-5. The eternal aero equation always yields the same ideal answer. The only differences nowadays are the pedestrian safety regs and the high ride heights that make those low, pointed noses impossible.
The resulting shapes look like a sports car roof grafted onto a pickup chassis, but hey, how can umpteen million car buyers be wrong?
The XM looks like a coupe trying to be a Citroen, and not doing very well.
The 924 looks like a Porsche trying for a low Cd.
Personally, I always thought the Pacer’s greenhouse was the inspiration for the 928.
Doesn’t any one else see it?
Lowly American Motors set the pace for the Porsche that was going to make the 911 history…
i don´t think so. It is the other way round. The guy responsible for the 924 was Rudolf Leiding. Prior to the 924 he made some other similar looking cars. Most notably the Volkswagen VW SP2. (image from: 924er.blogspot.com).
That yellow SP2, with a rear quarter window treatment that did not see production, sort of reminds me of a Jensen interceptor…
Thanks for that
Well, I’ll chime in here and say that although there are similarities in these profile views, in person the cars feel very different. I was a young teen when the SM came out, and frankly thought it hideous. I could not understand how a company like Maserati could allow their name to be linked to such an abomination (to use Zackman’s term) and a front -wheel-drive abomination, , no less. By the time of the 924 I was a little older and merely found it plain and with a few awkward details which I think were well taken care of by the 928 and especially 944. I think all three Porsches have aged well. The SM, well it’s a historic curiosity, nothing more, in my opinion.
Maserati were in no position to argue: they were bought by Citroen in 1968.
while I see a point in pointing out the similarities, in reality each one of them has a completely different presence and stance: while the 928 has a very tightly stretched skin over its well defined muscles, the SM is a bit looser and more excentric, and it doesn’t wear its clothes so tight; they fit perfectly in a more loose-fit comfy approach to being on the road in general. I had the luck to live in a neighbourhood in Berlin where I saw 3 SMs almost on a daily basis, a pearl white, a navy blue and a more common golden-bronze one, so I had the opportunity to study them in detail for many years; the 928 is an extremely rare sight in Germany, the Porschistas declared this car as a non-entity and they succeded. I became familiar with them at the time I lived in the States, which was prior to moving to Germany. One of the SMs of my neighbourhood got rear-ended by a truck while parked on Invalidenstrasse in Berlin: The truck not only lost its brakes and hit it from behind, it pushed the SM over the sidewalk against a wall, so it received an accordeon treatment. This was around 2005 and up to this day my heart is broken, and i wonder if it will ever overcome the trauma of having witnessed such a hideous crime.