Today’s overview of European compact panel vans reminded me of this very early Dodge Ram Van (later called Caravan C/V) that I shot a while back. They were never very common though back in the day. Why? Because Chrysler struggled to keep up with the huge demand for Caravans and Voyagers, and nicely-equipped passenger vans had a much fatter profit margin.
I headed up the acquisition of a tv station for Telemundo in 1987 in the Bay Area, and we bought on of the first long wheelbase versions with the 3.0 V6 and Torqueflite to use for hauling portable production equipment to remote shoots. The guys in the Production Dept. would have preferred an Econoline, but the Caravan acquitted itself very well, and was a much more pleasant vehicle to drive in traffic than the big vans.
Caravan C/Vs have been around for ages now, but they never really made a big impact. And now that compact FWD delivery vans are hot, Chrysler has jumped back in with its Ram ProMaster City.
FWIW, FCA recently offered a Ram C/V based on the 2008 vintage Grand Caravan/Town & Country minivan. I don’t know if it is still in production, with them re-tooling the Windsor ON CDN plant.
Looks like they built a small run of 2015 C/Vs before Windsor closed for retooling. They’re now officially discontinued.
Something I found interesting is that the final gen C/V offered a choice of a low floor or a raised floor model based on the Stow n Go Caravan. The seat wells were used as locking underfloor storage bins.
The late C/Vs also all had cupholders in the rear compartment! It seems it was cheaper just to put the interior trim panels from the passenger model in there rather than tool up inner moldings for the relatively low-production cargo van.
The last orders for the 2015 C/V were taken October, 2014. Build-out was a couple of months later. There are still a few left, but they’re usually strippos and/or at dealers who steadfastly refuse to deal.
Unlike all the new, purpose-built commercial city service/delivery vans (Promaster City, NV200, Transit Connect), the Ram C/V was, indeed, just a Dodge Grand Caravan with some heavier-duty chassis components and the rear seats/seatbelts removed and replaced by an aluminum flat load floor, or the extra cost Deluxe floor which gave you hatches to access those areas where the seats normally folded down into. Aside from the same mechanical shortcomings that any Grand Caravan will have, it’s actually a pretty nice package, and certainly more powerful than any of the new, small-four-cylinder only city vans. Of course, the trade-off for that power is worse fuel mileage, too. I think the Promaster City gets something like 4 more mpg than the C/V.
Other than a few other specific C/V options (like a wire partition between the front seats and cargo area), being a Dodge Grand Caravan also meant that a lot of the Caravan options were available on the C/V, including full side glass and roll-down rear windows. In effect, you could get a C/V that, for all intents and purposes, was externally identical to any other Grand Caravan, meaning it had a bit of a stealth vibe. That’s not the case with the new city vans. They’re commercial vehicles, and look like it. You can’t even get rear quarter windows on the passenger version of the Promaster City. I guess they figure they’re not needed since there’s no third row seat, either (at least in the US versions).
The question is which will be more rugged (relative to its competition) over the long term, the C/V or the Promaster City?
I’d go with the Caravan.
The Euro sourced van is a workhorse by design not a repurposed passenger car with no heavy duty mechanical upgrades.
The RT platform vans are notorious for absolutely decimating brake parts, and the C/V is even worse, as many are used to haul thousands of pounds of equipment. The 62TE is a feeble trans, also exacerbated by weight. And the tires, particularly the OE Yokohama Avid S33s are lucky to see 20k with any weight. Plus the front ends fall apart every 40k or so (tie rod ends, hub/bearings, stabilizer links, struts). Still, absurdly practical and a hilarious bit of sleeper speed to the Pentastar, two-stage oil pump and ECM problems notwithstanding. Too bad Chrysler couldn’t have made the whole platform a little more rugged. They are fantastic vehicles when running well.
Why you ask ?
We’re talking Fiat….You know…Fiat ! One of the world’s leading manufacturers of vans, trucks, buses, farm- & construction equipment, powertrains, marine engines, military vehicles etc. Their products roam the whole friggin planet, in immense quantities.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t Fiat Commercial/Iveco/Case New Holland spun off of Fiat a few years ago? I was told this is why Ram will never get a version of the Iveco Daily (a real competitor to the larger Sprinters and Transits), just the Fiat-based Promaster.
Case, New Holland, Iveco and FPT (Fiat Powertrain Technologies) Industrial are part of CNH Industrial N.V. An Italian company, registered in the Netherlands. Chairman is Sergio Marchionne, you must have heard of the man.
The bottom line is this: “Fix It Again Tony” isn’t even remotely funny anymore.
Nice Power Star bulk tipper. But I hate those 6wheeler trailers bastards to reverse they go really wrong really quick
Those Iveco PowerStar trucks are really neat. The Euro-version is called the Strator, basically a rebuilt Iveco Stralis COE, done by a Dutch Iveco dealership. It will always be a specialty, because COEs are the norm. They come with an FPT Cursor 9, 11 or 13 engine. (Photo courtesy of Charles Feijts Groep)
@ Perry: That’s a really good question. Early, anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that the Promaster City is, indeed, no better mechanically than the C/V, even with all the foibles pointed out by KalapanaBlack. It’s a shame because the City does seem to be nicer/better than the Transit Connect, and certainly better than the NV200. Of course, I have no idea how good either of the latter two are, either. But I wouldn’t think they’re anything substantially better, since the Transit Connect, like the Promaster City, is built in Turkey, and the NV200 is built in China.
I’d also heard the Nissans were built in China, but a quick inventory check of a couple of nearby Nissan stores showed them all with ‘3’ VINs – Mexico.
Out of all the Euro-based vans, the two Transits are by far the most popular around my area. The Sprinter runs a distant second and I hardly ever see a Promaster of either size.
Given our proximity to St. Louis, the Wentzville-built Express/Savana is still especially popular among local fleets and the various (heavily unionized) trades. Production has restarted after a freeze to accommodate the demand for the new Colorado/Canyon also built in Chuck Berry’s hometown. I’ve been seeing a lot of carriers full of them of late, usually heading east.
FWIW, it was only late last year when the Promaster City began being imported in any kind of volume. The Transit Connect has been around for years. In fact, I think the TC just got a model refresh. As mentioned in another post, it was just last year when the final Ram C/V was built and Chrysler transitioned completely over to the Promaster City as their small, commercial city van so it’s not like they’ll be instantly on the scene.
Even now, I see Ford and Nissan dealers festooned with Transit Connects and NV200s, while Dodge dealers seem to have very few Promaster Cities.
The vans from Wentzville are also headed west on I-70 with great frequency. That said, I’m seeing even more auto carriers full of F-150s heading east from the Ford plant in Claycomo.
I used to see Chuck Berry at a Chinese Buffet in Wentzville, right off I-70. Nice guy, but looked OLD, and this would have been at least 5 years ago.
I was under the impression that GM was going to pull the plug on the old-style full size vans (Express & Savana)…guess that’s not the case.
The only new cars we see rolling through Cincinnati are Corvettes (wrapped for transit) coming north out of Bowling Green KY and Honda Accords out of Marysville OH.
Ah, good ole Chuck Berry. Is he still performing? I recall years ago a disc jockey out of Chicago describing a Chuck Berry performance. Chuck takes a flight into a city, gets off a regular commercial flight with his guitar, goes to the venue, performs, then goes back to the airport and flies home. Pure business and not much of a partier at his age, I suppose.
It also reminds me of a seventies’ SNL Weekend Update with Dan Ackroyd where he’s reporting about a NASA mission that sent some sort of record of Earth history into space in the hopes that some intelligent being would receive it and reply, with all manner of information, including the Earth’s location in the universe and the planet’s art and music throughout time, from Mozart to Chuck Berry. Well, there was evidently a reply from the aliens who received it, and it simply said,
“Send more Chuck Berry”.
Previa photobomb!
The 80s Toyota Van in cargo style was a nice little hauler too. upgraded rear suspension and 4×4 available.
Not around here, those thing rusted to powder after only 6-7 Cleveland winters.
What I liked about the 84-87 Toyota Van was that it shared the 3TC 1.8 hemi engine with the 80-82 RWD Corolla… Some of them had a variation of the Celica Supra wheels.
There is one, the next town over, all original, grey, used as a lil workhorse. The owner uses it daily, too. 🙂
The 80s Vans never had 3TC. 84-85 was 3YEC and 86-89 wa Los 4YEC
Roger, most rusted away. Mine is 31 yrs old in August. Cleveland its whole life!!!
Sammy, I just texted my friend whose uncle owned a small fleet to deliver baked goods, around 91-95.
He said, his uncle swapped the stock engines for 3TCs, and two of them were equipped with 22Rs. He said he loved the proven durability of those power plants, hence the swaps.
He bought the shells from fleet auctions, the old engines had over 300,000 miles or more… Some barely ran.
He was an awesome Toyota mechanic and racer in Puerto Rico.
All this time, I thought they ran the 3TC 1.8 from the factory, too.
I think he may have 2 of those vans stashed away. 🙂
Swapping those in makes sense. Kudos to the mechanic. They probably were sweet little machines then. I was just saying what came from the factory in them (at least for U.S. market). There used to be so many variations of these globally who knows what was happening elsewhere
This would have made a nice shop truck ~ my Father bought a first gen. Caravan and it was very good indeed .
Not fancy but trouble free and 1,000 reliable , it went from Hawaii to New Jersey then crossed America several times , always fully loaded and still ran great with ice cold AC when he sold it in Bellingham , Wa. a few years before he died .
-Nate
It’s surprisingly pristine. Ive always wanted to take a 1st gen panel shortie C/V and stuff a massaged SRT-4 engine and transaxle into it. A sleeper that you can actually sleep in, if you had to!
Hank Hill’s neighbor, Dale Gribble, drives one for his exterminating business, on King of the Hill. 🙂
I thought of these several times when I was using a service vehicle. My version was a Datsun King Cab with a shell that had three doors. I think the only reason I didn’t try one of these was that I didn’t care to tow with front wheel drive. I know it’s done by bunches of people but rwd is better for that purpose. This probably got better fuel economy than my truck.
These seem tiny compared to the newer ones. Kinda nice & trim.
These are actually called the Dodge Mini Ram Van which is nearly a mouth full. These probably are not as durable as Aerostars or Astros, but they look cool and sure are rare. Wonder if any came with Barn Doors? This Mini Ram Van must have found something to do for a living these days. Here is a photo of a 1986 model year from July 2015 in Portland, OR.
There are a bunch of Previas around here and one block has at least three. It is the same block with a Celebrity Estate.
You’re right; I need to change the title.
Sliding door on the right, top hinged hatch on the rear – or at least that’s the way our ’84 (or was it an ’85, can’t remember, I think I bought it as a leftover in late ’84) was equipped
I’ve seen several first-gen Mini Ram/CV vans with rear barn doors. You can tell them apart even from the side, because the top part with the windows is less sloped than the usual hatch door. Another difference from the passenger version appeared in the late 80s when the grille was redesigned and the quad headlamps were replaced with composite H4 lamps – or at least that’s what the passenger versions got. In the cargo van these were often replaced by single rectangular sealed beams inside a bezel to make it fit into the same grille opening. If I had a Caravan/Voyager/T&C passenger van from the late ’80s to early ’90s, I’d swap out the composite headlamps for the sealed beams, so I could fit it with superior European replacement lamps from Cibie or Hella, or maybe if I could find them the Sylvania HID retrofits they sold a few years ago.
Interesting they designed a dedicated set of side sheetmetal for the original Mini Ram so there were no cutout lines where the windows would have been. Later versions of the Caravan C/V just used the standard passenger van sheetmetal and replaced the windows with metal panels.
I took a picture of a recent generation C-V. It’s not that old, and the lighting really stunk, but now is a good time to share it.
Is that thing rolling on DUBS? 😀
Since the first minivans were MY1984 (although they came out in early 1983), I wonder if the feature vehicle, being a 1985, is actually one of the first year cargo vans. With the roof rack, red color (cargo vans are usually white), window in the sliding door, and what appears to be a red second row seat, makes me wonder about the history of it. Was it like that from the factory, or is it a refurbished commercial vehicle, retrofitted with the bench seat for civilian passenger use? A rather curious vehicle, to be sure.
If it’s all original, considering the condition and early production year, it might be worthy of a museum (or at least car show status).
Had one new (marked as a Caravan C/V) in metallic grey with a light grey interior. And aftermarket supplier finished the interior. As the then-wife and I were very involved in the SCA, it got a lot of use. As wifey’s idea of camping was the equivalent of the king’s tent in a medieval movie, we’d have to remove the passenger seat to get the whole pavilion, and furnishings, my armor, etc. inside. The wife would follow in her car (Dodge Omni 4-door), loaded with our clothing and food,
It was a very good van. 2.2 engine with automatic (of course).
My aunt actually owns an ’84 Mini Ram… that has been converted into a handicapped van. Wheelchair lift behind the sliding door, raised roof, aftermarket back windows. Purchased years ago from someone whose disabled family member passed away. Probably has less than 40k on it. Every couple years, she talks about getting a new van, looks at what new handicapped vans go for, and decides to keep it.