I just ran out for an errand, and couldn’t resist this pristine daily-driver yellow W123 ( a 300D Turbo Diesel owned by a kid who works in the gas station next door), having Sevilles on the brain this morning. And just as I get ready to click, another W123 rolls into the picture. So here’s the question: what are the odds of my catching two daily-driver Sevilles of a similar vintage in one shot? A trillion to one? Sorry, folks; you may have been impressed with the Seville when you were kids, but at some point we all have to grow up and face the facts: real quality can’t be faked. And quality is a true luxury.
Yes, there are many W123s in Eugene, and we even have several service facilities that specialize in just them. Most have between a quarter and a half-million miles on them. Some more. But except for a few that will be parted out, the rest will end up back on the road. Are there any similar lots that keep Sevilles with 300,000 miles on them going for their devoted daily-driving fans? The green Seville in today’s CC is the first I’d seen on the streets in all these past five years of shooting cars.
Where did they all come from? California, where the W123 and S-Class Mercedes dominated the luxury car field at the time. Maybe not in actual sales, but anyone who wanted to be seen in a genuine luxury car and could possibly afford one, even a lowly 240D, bought one. Some of them might actually have been happier in an Olds 98 or something, but status trumps all, even if it only has 65 hp. And the W123’s interior went a long way to ameliorating the lack of acceleration. One can perceive luxury in many ways, but being able to actually touch it, and know it’s the real thing goes a long way. And once one has, they’re not likely to accept cheap imitations.
“One can perceive luxury in many ways, but being able to actually touch it, and know it’s the real thing goes a long way. And once one has, they’re not likely to accept cheap imitations.”
So much thruth in those words. 65hp, so what? These cars are not that heavy. Enough is enough.
Its funny how absolutely opposite this Benz is from the Seville. This car is what it is because quality, design and engineering were the first priorities, not the bottom line cost of the car. Even though the 240 never did evoke any strong emotion in terms of driving dynamics it did play to the vanity of those that bought it. I wonder whether it would have sold any slower if the quality was just above average–my guess is that few original owners bought them because they thought they would go way over 100k miles. They paid the premium to be seen in a Benz.
The Seville was all image (a questionable one from my perspective) and no substance. The materials were a step up from a Nova, but not anywhere near its price point. The funny thing is that the Camaro-derived suspension in the Seville could have been made to handle like a US version of the 7-series–its just that GM didn’t know how to do that at the time without giving it a very non-Caddy-like ride. Even if they had it would have just confused their dealers and customers anyway.
Sorry, they are just not “luxury” cars, vinyl, manual transmissions, plain, hard seats, crank windows in many of them, I’m not saying they aren’t well built, they are, but they really are very well crafted and expensive “low end cars”, the best built compact if you will. I’m not saying that they are not interesting, but they aren’t “luxury” either, fake or otherwise.
But that star on the hood and the fact that it is made in Germany means it is a “luxury” car.
I’m with you I’ve never been impressed by the faux luxury of these cars. Like you mentioned cheap vinyl, on the hard uncomfortable seats, and usually crank windows are far from luxurious in my opinion.
Yes they are pretty well built but a lot of the reason they stick around so long is that the owners have been fooled into continuing to fix them, partially since they do have a relatively high value in good running condition so it is easier to justify the cost of repairs. Plus from the get go the Mercedes dealers set the owner up with the notion that expensive regular maintenance was “normal” and the independent garages also promote that philosophy.
Ads for Packard in the 1920s and 1930s, and Cadillac through about the mid-1960s, emphasized how long-lasting and well-built their cars were. Quality construction and long-lasting materials were considered part of the luxury car recipe. Cadillac forgot this by the early 1970s.
A 1970s Cadillac may be more “interesting” to look at than a 1970s Mercedes, in that it offers more gadgets, vinyl roofs and fancier upholstery, but emphasizing style over substance eventually caught up with the division. It is still trying to recover.
I don’t see 2012 Mercedes or Lexuses plastered with landau roofs, velour upholstery, fake wire-wheel covers and coach lamps. For that matter, Cadillac scrupulously avoids these styling devices as well.
No, but you do see Mercedes’ that a chock full of gadgets and power everything,
having owned a 240d manual w/ crank windows (2nd hand), i agree with carmine. quality is not luxury. they were for volvo owners who had more money and wanted something a little less spartan.
A few 240Ds may have been equipped that way, but the overwhelming majority I’ve seen all have automatic, power windows, and a significant percentage have leather. You’re setting up a straw man argument. If you wanted the typical luxury features, by the time of the W123, they were available. Never mind the luxury of 4 wheel disc brakes, fully independent suspension, and very high quality materials, including the famous MB Tex vinyl. Wears like iron. 🙂
But yes, if you wanted tufted loose-pillow velour, MB was not the way to go. BTW, do you still have tufted velour upholstery in your living room since you like it so much?
Yes, I’ll even go further and say that 2 W123’s in one day in most places would be as rare as 2 Sevilles in one day, I live in Miami, where these were sold like hotcakes through the Cocaine Cowboy heydays, and I cant recall the last time I’ve seen a W123 on the road, much less 2 of them.
Even further, does MB still subscribe to this philosophy? Or have they gone Cadillac? In fact shortly after these cars, they started going American, they introduced power seats, tilt steering wheels, better air conditioning, going forward until today, where the once serious Mercedes now has more power features and gadgets than a Motorama dream car.
Congratulations on your unicorn(s).
I’d say from my experience that very few of the 240Ds were equipped with luxury features, most of those I’ve seen are manual everything. The 300Ds were much more likely to get automatics and power accessories.
As to that MB Tex I find that while it may be more durable than some materials it is cold, cheap looking and feeling.
I’d also agree that seeing them on the road is pretty rare around here at least well preserved examples. The majority around here are beaters and/or sport large Bio Diesel stickers. So I’d recolect that if it weren’t for the Bio Diesel movement there would be far fewer of these still on the road.
Contrast that in Europe, where a lot of W123s served as taxicabs. So those tended to have manual trannys and roll up windows
I have spend loads of time behind the wheel of these cars and they epitomise what Mercedes-Benz cars were: supreme quality. Anyone who can pan the quality of these cars has obviously never driven one or even been in one. Have a look at the door latch on the B pillar: that is a huge chrome striker that will never, ever break. The entire car is full of features that exude quality. The body is built like a bank vault and working on them is really easy; nothing ever strips.
The later turbo-diesel versions were much better in regards to power, too. These cars were never cheap, especially when the Canuckistani Peso was low. In real terms, a 1980 300D is like twice the money of an E350. The E350 isn’t half the car the 300D was.
Something about that the scenes above reminds me of the 57 Bel Aires at a rod and custom show or a bunch of fat guys with chaps and do rags with their Harleys at a bike meet. I guess that’s the time I would like to have my 77 impala wagon with all it’s zits and bumps, my bib overalls, straw hat and whatever expression of repugnance I could muster.
I guess I’m not much taken with status symbols and might even be called antisocial. Sorry for the brain flatulence. I’m going to take a nap now.
They’re not status symbols in the usual sense anymore. They’re driven by young kids, mostly, because they can run on biodiesel, are “cool”, and can be kept running for a very long time. I guess that’s a form of status.
These cars are very easy to work on and infinitely rebuildable. The diesel engine can be rebuilt for only like fifteen hours and the rebuild kits are surprisingly cheap. They also rarely need machining since the quality of the metal is so good.
Carmine raises an interesting point – just what is “luxury”? I think that the Mercedes does convey a German understanding of luxury – top quality in every component, large size (for Europe) but not so much in the conveniences (spelled “frills” in German).
There is also French luxury (oozy soft ride) and British luxury (wood and leather).
I think that American luxury has historically (pre-WWII) combined German athleticism, French/English comfort with a uniquely American thirst for power (think Duesenberg or the 12 and 16 cylinder luxury cars.)
I think that MikePDX hit a point earlier that the American luxury cars stopped reaching in the early 1960s. They sort of retained the outward trappings but the German traits of quality and athleticism slowly went away. It is my belief that CAFE took a bad situation and made it worse. By the 1980, what passed for a luxury car in the US was far from what a luxury car should be. Sure, good a/c, power conveniences and nice leather seats, but everything else was Wal-Mart (or maybe Target) grade.
It is a shame that no US company took the traditional kind of luxury that they had previously sold coupled with the deep-down high quality of a Mercedes. They would have sold a respectable number of cars. My father cross-shopped a Continental Mark and a Mercedes in 1974. He considered the Mercedes horribly overpriced for very little luxury of the kind he was used to. But time would prove the Mercedes to be a much higher quality car.
+1. With the addition The last American Luxury car that tried and succeeded at this school of thought was the 1963 Riviera.
Most points after that there was too much price point blur on all levels, from the LTD at Ford and the Ninety Eight LS (and then Regency). Once luxuries of higher price points got torpedo’ed by lesser cars offering the same features, American manufacturers wanted to chase volume. American customers wanted the most for their money.
Mercedes was in a weird “Packard like” class of “see how well it’s built, see how long it lasts” that I don’t think was the appeal of its Teutonic contemporaries BMW and Audi. Which, we should mention, even Mercedes gave up on about 25 years ago to fight Acura and Lexus. You often see well kept W124s at a price premium over the W210s that replaced them. And I think that’s part of the appeal of the Golden Mercedes period: If you so desire, they could be the only car you’ll ever buy.
And from personal experience the Gas inline 6 ones are pretty fun. I’d never buy an S-class though…
American luxury is the stick on kind its only meant to last until trade in time or the annual model change.
JPC and Carmine: I love the question of “what is luxury?” Not so long ago, I owned a 1989 w126 Mercedes… with a manual driver’s side mirror. Every time I adjusted it, I felt like a chump. But the rest of the time, I felt like a king. Not just because of the star on the hood, but also the surgical-grade metal trim, the heavy click of the window switches, the butteriness of the gear shift, the ergonomic perfection of the headlight dial…
A shame that all of our respective luxury cars would be easily outlived by a humble 2nd-gen Camry (if you can keep it dry!).
I’m not so sold on the switch gear of the W123 models, my experience is that it has a cheap JC Whitney look and feel particularly the after thought look of the power window, lock and seat switches and the general VW quality look of the headlight and climate control switches.
The window switches in a W123 are worse than the “look”. They’re designed in such a way that normal use puts imparts force trying to break it apart. Eventually they fall apart, the body falls down into the console, and they have to be replaced. And in their infinite wisdom, Mercedes spec’d them so that they’re not interchangeable. So when the driver’s side one fails, you can’t swap it with the passenger side.
I’d rather die tomorrow in a Seville than live forever in a W123.
Amen, brother.
Preach it!
Agreed.
You’re all crazy, but, horses for courses as they say. Enjoy your stick-on luxo-lite fellas.
If it’s a binary choice I’ll take the MB thanks.
I find it more amazing you have the ability to shop with Joe Albertson!
FWIW, I wasn’t, and don’t. The Benz pulled me over. I was shopping at Bi-Mart across the street, for batteries and lights for my camper.
Having once owned a W123 300D for a while, I can say this: The W123 was a so-so “luxury” car in its time, at least in the way we in this country thought of luxury; on the other hand, it may be one of the greatest used cars of all time. I also think it’s a really attractive sedan, and maybe the best-looking wagon ever in its TD guise.
So given that no Mercedes today is quite like the W123…what are M-B’s Deadly Sins? The M-Class? Buying Chrysler and coughing it up again only a few years later?
The W210 and W208 (1996 E class and the CLK Coupes). I swear my dad’s Eighty Eight feels more substantial than those two. The C Class and S class that followed in their wake seemed like shark jumping points too.
Mercedes designed during the Schrempp era were a HUGE step backwards quality-wise. The worst, IMO, are:
W203 C-Class (2000-2006)
W210 E-Class (1995-2002), though the one after it was no prize either
W220 S-Class (1999-2006)
Coincidentally, my first car was a 300D in that same shade of butter yellow. COAL article, maybe?
I made over 50K km in W203 after a series of BMW’s – it’s not bad at all…
It’s just not as good (build and material quality) as W124 (older E-class) or W126 (older S-class).
But when you compare it to W202 (previous C-class) it’s a great little luxury car.
The generation of W203-210 was really, really bad. Corrosion, crazy electrics and electronics, weak suspension. There’s not much good parts in those machines. Never mind the soul…
I’ve never rode in or driven a Mercedes, so I’m not qualified to make any comments, pro or con. I will say that I’ve always found the little roadster model attractive. A guy I golf with occasionally, of German extraction, owns a 5 or 6 year old model with the retractible hardtop. He bought it new, so he’s quite well off. He drives it fast (over 100 mph) at a nearby rent the track place that I’ve never visited.
However, he has a soft spot for my old cars, which although respectible, have almost no value. Here he is, honestly admiring my old cars which have very little value, but owning a car, one of several, that cost new around 100K.
Go figure.
I think using the 240D as an example of quality trumping Detroit-style gluttony is really pushing it. I would really lose my mind having to drive one of those cars, especially with an automatic, if I could spend a similar amount of money on a Delta 88 or Caprice and merge onto expressways that much more easily.
Then again, dealing with the Americans’ limp steering and back destroying seats might tilt me the other way. I suppose I’d just choose a 5-series, thermal convertor and all.
FWIW, this car is a 300TurboDiesel, as the badging on the trunk lid makes very clear. And it has automatic, power windows and other “luxury” features. I never said it was a 240D. I mentioned the 240D in my text, as a choice some desperate MB aspiring owners made, because of not being able to afford a 300TD. Bad choice, for the most part.
The 300D isn’t quick off the line, but it’s far from a penalty box. My ’82 had, as Paul mentioned, a power sunroof, power windows, and an automatic. Passing power was good, the ride pleasant, and handling competent if a bit heavy on the body lean.
To say that a late 70’s/ early 80’s emmissions-choked GM V8 would blow it into the weeds would be incorrect.
Especially at highway speeds. Germans don’t do the stoplight Grand Prix; their cars are designed for top speed. The 300D turbo diesel would cruise at 160 km/h all day in all terrain.
You can have a well-engineered, well-built car that is not a luxury car. This will only have a niche market, at least in America, because not that many non-luxury car buyers will pay for such quality. This is what I see in the Mercedes pictured.
You can also have a poorly-engineered, poorly-built car that is a luxury car. Such a car would be riding on the reputation of the manufacturer, and would ultimately tarnish said reputation. Many “badge-engineered” Cadillacs and Lincolns are often regarded in this category.
I think some confusion stems from the American vs. Euro ego battles. I hate European cars and always will…so I bow up a little when I hear the American-car-bashing comments from some of those who don’t know a hill-o-beans about whatever POS is being critiqued here. I sense that some of the Euro-lovers feel the same way when some “dumb” person critiques a “real car like a BMW Bavaria”. Oh well, it is what it is.
As much as I’d like to argue that the American stuff does EVERYTHING better than the Euro stuff, I can’t. However, I’ll never agree that these era Mercedes vehicles were more luxurious than their US competition though — I don’t see how anyone can even argue that point.
Quality on the other hand….umm….okay.
I will begrudgingly admit that after being forced to ride around in my stepmothers VILE beige ’74 Mercedes 280 sedan…that I’ve never been in a more solid vehicle. I’m still amazed at the unreal level of quality that car exuded. It had almost no body roll during the occasional evasive maneuver. The feel of that car was just so brick-like. Think of a Volvo 240…only with higher quality interior appointments, a smoother drivetrain, and an uglier body.
The doors “thunked” shut as did the trunk & hood. Never a rattle or a hint of wind noise. It was a quiet, ugly, uncomfortable, & foreign experience for me. I still hate that car & all of its descendants but aside from aesthetics…I have no valid reason to loath these cars but I do anyway.
Nothing ever broke on that car in the years that we had it either which SUCKS.
You just won Comment of the Day. I appreciate your honesty; that despite being an unabashed American car fanboi, you can attest to the Merc’s fundamental qualities without necessarily liking it. You are a rare breed.
I don’t think that any of us Seville defenders will claim that the Cadillac wasn’t overpriced when new, wasn’t at least a little cynical in its creation, and didn’t even come close to matching the build quality of the Mercedes of the era
But still, the W123 is full of austerity, discipline, and has as much flair as a tax audit. The interior design between the two cars really tells a good story.
The stuff that you think is tasteless and tacky on the Seville come off as brand faithful and characterful to me.
The gen1 Seville was an attempt at a small Cadillac and ironically was probably the most “honest” one GM ever made. It wasn’t an Opel or Holden or a BMW. It was an American contender in the small luxury car segment of the mid-1970s, with all the good and bad that goes along with that distinction.
The W-123 may not have been a true luxury car but it certainly was a Premium Car in the tradition of the well engineered luxury cars of the past where just the ability for the car to stay together was considered a luxury. That so many survive today is a testament to their quality.
The austere, over engineered cars of the 60’s, ’70’s and ’80’s are why they can charge a premium price today for cars that aren’t worthy of wearing the star, much like the Cadillacs of the 70’s and 80’s still sold on the glory days of the 50’s and 60’s.
Do you remember when “Car and Driver” tested the Seville against a Rolls Royce?
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/40276423/eBay%20PIX/SRR1.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/40276423/eBay%20PIX/SRR2.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/40276423/eBay%20PIX/SRR3.jpg
In Eugene the odds of not capturing two of these Mercs is against you.
Bingo!
My own experiences with Mercedes cars happened earlier than most posters here. The prices hadn’t yet started the steep upward spiral of the late 1970’s. I bought my 1960 220S sedan in 1967, and my clapped-out 1964 230SL in 1974. I had some good times with both of them but neither one ended up a keeper. I was still in my “haven’t experienced enough different kinds of cars yet” mode. Later on, my chance of affording any Mercedes new enough to be a really decent car were pretty slim. I can see the appeal of both European cars and American ones from the late 1970’s through 1990’s but my main drivers since the early 1980’s have been Honda Accords.
Which warrants a reminder that German cars began to skyrocket in price when the mark went from 4 to the dollar in the 1960’s to 2 by the late 1970’s. That means your cheap Volkswagen Beetle loses its pricing edge and your premium-priced Benzes become more expensive than Fleetwoods.
It’s also why you see Benz taxicabs everywhere but in the States. And why you never see one here with a cloth interior. Or a manual transmission. Or a small engine. I had the trifecta in a rental C180 back in 1995. I preferred the BMW 316i I had two years earlier. That one had no tach and no A/C, but was much lighter on its feet at the Nurburgring. I drove both there and learned a lot.
Mercedes has a history of building luxury cars and high-quality basic cars. Maybe that’s the reason they’ve been able to ride their rep for so long?
There were a lot of WW2 and hardcore Union guys still breathing when GM commited this “DS”. No way in hell they were going to buy a German car.
The perception of “luxury” in the U.S was different than than it is now.
The first time I saw the inside of a 126 was at the ripe age of 19 when a Romanian friend of mine tried teaching me about being a “Big Spicone”(No clue on that to this day).
It didnt impress. I would have rather had the velour seats of my 80 GP than the Truckers seats in the Merc. The 126 is a bit of a different story.
My parents bought a 1982 Mercedes 240D in the summer of -83. It was a one year old Certified pre-owned car, bought in Germany. At the time, Mercedes employees could buy heavily subsidized cars every year, so there was quite a large market for cpo-cars. The import taxes to Sweden was quite severe at the time, so doing that trick got you roughly 25% off compared to a new car in Sweden.
And yes, there was a kind of Mercedes fad in Sweden too at the time. It was seen as the car for urban professionals, pre-yuppie era. It was also the car of choice for building contractors, as the tax man couldn’t see if the contractors put their tax exempt diesel in their caterpillars or their cars. Also, it was quite popular in the north of Sweden where we were living at the time, because few other cars were built to cope with those winter conditions.
But yes, I think they were caught in the fad. My parents were early adopters in many fields, with a keen sense of quality. Sometimes they were so far ahead they bought into fads before they were fads. Sometimes they stuck with stuff because of the quality, and fads be damned. So, I never knew if they were so far ahead they were in the know, or if they simply just never had a clue.
In -83, the W123 was just a year away of being replaced. The car was golden brown, catching the tail end of the 70’s brown craze. At the time, the color was really out of date. It was a 5-speed manual, with cloth interior, and manual windows. But it had optional central locking, power steering, seat heating, and self-levelling rear suspension.
Was it a luxury car? No, but they didn’t buy it for the luxury, they bought it for the quality. They were into Birkenstocks as well. They were quite succesful psyhiatrists, professionals in their field. They wanted a quaity car, something that would hold.
I’ve compared the price of that car with other cars for the time, and at that time, that money would’ve gotten you for example a fully loaded Saab 900 Turbo, or a fully loaded Volvo 264. Volvo and Saab being the baseline in Sweden, though few of our neighbours could afford a fully loaded anything.
And yes, I’ve said it before. But that car may be the most solid car I’ve ever been in. It exuded quality like nothing I have ever seen. It simply inspired confidence just sitting in it. It was a marvel of costs be damned built like a tank german engineering, and it felt like it as well. It may be most self confident car I’ve ever seen. It wasn’t fast, and it didn’t have any gadgets. But is surely commanded a presence on the road like nothing else. It was the finest piece of engineering I have ever seen, and I haven’t seen its like since then…
I agree completely but the 1970s S class cars also felt the same. I had a 1974 280SE Euro-spec as a driver for a few months. The car was a stripper but I didn’t care. I still have not driven a better car.
Reading all those comments I wonder – what’s wrong with Americans (or Anglo-Saxon culture in total – because it happens in UK as well) to accept such a painfully obscure quality in cars they buy?
We have horridly build cars in Europe as well, but at least there is some choice here – even among the “cheap brands” and those really miserable don’t sell in big numbers.
As far as I remember, american cars were always very nice to look at from the outside, but had absolutely awful interiors – both plastics and design. When Japanese first started to sell in the US, their cars had proper materials, fit and finish. Now -even a “luxury” Camry or Avalon- are so unrefined and poorly designed inside the cabin that I am really confused – why are you guys buying it? Why not choose Infiniti or VW for similar money and propel the manufacturer that is really working hard?
It’s not enough to put some (questionable) leather inside and some toys to make it “a luxury”. Don’t you think?
I don’t want to go for a war with american pride or look like a jerk from Central Europe that wants to shout louder then he is, but it’s so strange.
We all can vote with our wallets. Why not choose proper design and quality over cheap space and questionable toys?
Am I alone with that thought here?
Back in 1976, Pat Bedard of Car and Driver wrote an eloquent take on this age-old argument, using the LTD as subject matter. Read it here.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40003349@N03/sets/72157631449508928/
Thank you, sir, for that trip in the Wayback machine. Bedard ably described the one kind of vehicle that the American auto industry was uniquely good at producing. Unfortunately, CAFE (among other lesser factors) put the US industry in the position of having to play most of its games away from home court.
I never bought the CAFE argument. There is simply no reason why Detroit could not develop efficient luxury models. Lexus did it, Infinity did it, Acura did it and so did Daimler, BMW and Audi. Instead they flogged the crushed velour loose pillow horse as long as they could and got flummoxed doing it.
Car companies can’t whip new powertrains out of their butts, at least not successfully. The imports were ready to go with more fuel efficient engine choices because those engines had existed for years in their home markets. For example, the W108 Mercedes hit its stride around 1972 with an engine design that dated back to the 50s.
Rushed engine development in Detroit resulted in the Vega SOHC, the V864, the HT4100, the Olds diesel etc, etc. Many who owned these cars never bought another American make.
I would argue a slower approach (e.g. using the Olds cast iron 307 in the 1982 Cadillac instead of the HT4100) would have resulted in slightly fewer new car sales but would have prevented the massive defections that occurred from rushing the job.
The Seville with its smaller but tried and true 350 V8 is an example of doing it right.
What a pleasant read, thanks for posting. The article is a good reminder of why so many of us liked reading car magazines back then. Well written, well thought out and long! Patrick was probably in his late 20s when he wrote that. I find the writing of young auto journalists today to be no more interesting than what I can read on the internet in the “comments” sections like this one. Hence the demise of the buff books as well knew them.
The best part is that PB gave credit where credit was due on the performance of US sedans. That level of refinement in the LTD came from decades of work and by 1976 the Big 3 had mastered it. Sure competition gave costumers another choice and many, including me, liked the new more agile handling feel but let’s face it most people made the switch for things like better fit/finish and much better fuel economy. To say the switch to imported luxury cars was largely because buyers grew tired of the superior ride comfort and quietness of American cars is just plain wrong.
The first Seville succeeded in large part because it did what no other car has done since. It married smaller size, better workmanship (the paint finish for example was outstanding) and fuel economy with Rolls-Royce level refinement. Only the Big 3 were capable of delivering that at a reasonable price. This was the secret recipe that GM should have continued refining.
Luxury car? The 240D looked like a taxi and was crude as a tractor. Powertrain refinement was on a par with a four-cylinder 1962 Chevy II. I take that back — the Chevy II had a much smoother-shifting automatic transmission.
My tuppeneth on all this boils down to the difference between surface and substance.
(some) American car buyers seem content to accept the veneer of luxury, and (historically) American car manufacturers increasingly played to this tendency with regular (but insubstantial) model changes and insubstantial (but very visible) frills like vinyl roofs etc. What does it matter if it’s a flimsy POS under the trimmings when you’ll be trading it in next year anyway?
Meanwhile (some) European car buyers – especially at the luxury end of the market – look for substance: they want a car that feels like it’s going to last because if you’re spending all that money, you want a quality product. The extreme end of this spectrum being “old money” buyers, who might not replace a car for a decade or two, but would fully expect it to feel and function as well the day they part with it, as it did they day they bought it.
Personally I think these distinctions have blurred over the past decade or two. It seems American buyers are much more astute about quality these days, while Europeans are increasingly swayed by frills and gimicks… I expect the two markets will eventually meet in the middle, but for the cars we’re discussing here and the (historic) market they represent I think the point stands.
Hence the bafflement on both sides of the pond at each others’ definitions of “luxury”.
From what I’ve read on both this and the Seville post, it doesn’t seem as though there are too many who like and/or appreciate both cars. Even as a kid in the 70s, I really liked both. I appreciated the style and flair of Cadillacs, as well as the design and presence and quality (solidity, really) of European cars like Mercedes. I liked the Seville, and I still think the first gen was a good effort by GM (as flawed as it was). Did we really expect that GM, in the early 70s, when the Seville was conceived and developed, would have been able to predict the swift rise of Mercedes (and later, BMW), or have been able to just turn around and build a car just like them overnight?
I always did like the W123, and it and the W124 and W126 are really the pinnacle of what Mercedes was about. As for seeing them on the road, well, I just spent about 12 days driving down the coast in CA, and I saw many of them. I knew the weather there was kind to cars, but I could not believe how many well preserved old cars there were. I don’t recall seeing any Cadillacs of similar vintage.
Also, lets get off the whole “no innovation” kick about Cadillac, tonight when you drive your modern Toyondhyundai and the lights come on and off automatically, and you dial the temperature in to the exact degre on your automatic air conditioner, set your memory seat heated seat to your preset position and plop your automatic door locks down, thank Cadillac.
Outside of memory seats, how many of those features date from more recently than the 50’s? To me it seems that some time around the mid-60’s they let off the development and advancement.
I think it was up until the late 80’s that M-B changed from building (developing) the cars then working out how much they cost, to building them with a price point in mind.
Automatic door locks became a regular option in 1976, auto climate control came out in 1964, but digital climate control came out in 1981, along with memory seats, heated seats date back to 1966, also, like that trip computer that tells you MPG and range? Thank Cadillac to, they were the first to offer it in 1978.
Too bad the auto climate controller would stop working soon after warranty and was impossible to fix.
Wow, again with that….
I must be sooooo lucky to have had half a dozen or more GM cars with auto climate control still working…I should play the lottery.
Though its tough to fix….if you dont have a shop manual and tools…..
Whatever……
So you mean auto-locking locks rather than ordinary power locks? Fair enough. Displaying the temp you had set (digital) doesn’t seem to me to be a huge advance over the 1964 auto climate control.
I imagine the trip computer was connected to the introduction of fuel injection?
Don’t get me wrong, I respect the contribution Cadillac has made to the automobile, I just get the impression that most of it was ~50 years or more ago.
Memory seats were on the 1957 Mercury Turnpike Cruiser.
Along with the 1957 CADILLAC ELDORADO BROUGHAM.
And Cadillac was the first to re-introduce them in 1981.
Whereas Mercury was making Monarchs or something…..
I like the Mercedes, but I’d rather have one of these:
Of course, I’d also have an early ’90s Volvo 240GL to balance it out…yes I do like cars on both side of the pond.