You know it’s finally seriously warm here when the T-Tops finally come off this regular fixture in my neighborhood. This Firebird 6.6 TA has been around for several years now, but this is the first time I’ve seen it topless. Might have something to do with the heat-wave we’re having. Seems like the late seventies were kind of the peak of the T-Top phenomena. Or was it later? About the time folks realized that sunroofs of one kind or another made more sense? But they’ll never quite replicate this. Here it is in cooler weather, still fully-dressed:
I cant drive mine with the T-tops on, I always have to take them off, though down here you can use them all the time, except when its raining.
I would say between 1978-1987 was the T-tops heyday, GM had it on the Corvette, the t-top patient zero, the F-body of course, and the A-body and briefly on the Fiero,Ford had it on the Mustang II and Mustang and Capri, Thunderbird, Cougar. Chrysler had them on the Aspen/Volare and the Laser/Daytona duo, and even of course on the Cordoba/Charger/Mirada/Magnum mustache mobiles and the Diplomat too. Nissan had them on the Z-cars, and the Pulsar later.
I might be missing a few there.
The last of the big Toronados were available with power retracting t-tops, I think.
In many ways the Firebird/Camaro (genetically) is the antithesis of what I want in a classic I would buy for myself. But make it black/gold with a screaming chicken and t-tops… You’d have to be some kind of commie to claim that you don’t love it. (And even then, you’d probably be a LYING commie).
Evidently, there were no production power T-top cars, only prototypes: one (1) 1977 Toronado XSR and seven (7) 1978 Eldorado Biarritz.
My guess is that besides technical issues (like proper sealing), it would have just been too darn expensive. Essentially, you’d be paying for not one, but two sideways power sunroofs.
T-tops, while a good idea in theory, were just beaten out by the sunroof, probably the main reason being sunroofs were a lot easier to install. Plus, the T-top just seemed like a kind of bastardized version of the classic targa-top (which is still going strong in its traditional venue of Porsches and Corvettes).
Was the 4th-gen f-body (last year 2002) the final recipient of an available T-top option on any vehicle?
Oops, “generically,” not “genetically.”
I didn’t count them because there only were a few made aftermarket, Oldsmobile did play around the idea, the did make one Toronado XSR with the power t-tops for brochure pics, but it was killed by the time they went to production and all Toronado XS’s got a power moonroof instead, and lost their “R” too.
Wretched XS!
The 1st and 2nd Gen(84-99) MR2 had optional T-tops. My father had a 1986 1st gen with the regular sunroof that he could just squeeze into on headroom. The T tops have ~2″ less and he couldn’t fit in them.
T-tops were a pretty good idea. Come close to having a convertible without giving up the platform stiffness. Yeah, storage and pulling them off were a bit of a pain (I guess, having never owned one), but it seems to be something that was reasonably well thought out.
I’ve always assumed they were killed off by the cost of sunroofs getting cheaper. Or was it just going out of style?
I think you could include the Triumph Stag and Porsche Targa in this category. If the design wasn’t exactly the same, the intent sure was.
Well convertibles started comming back, its not the taking off of the T-tops that is an issue, its the crazy mad scramble to put them back on again when its about to rain!
I thought T-tops were pretty cool in the 70s. I bought a beautiful 1976 Pontiac Grand Prix LJ with Hurst Hatch T-tops. It was two tone silver with a silver partial padded vinyl roof, and all the options. I gradually grew to hate those T-tops.
Cutting out big sections of the roof weakened the body stucture significantly. I could feel the body twisting on rough highways. The drip rails were lost with the roof sections, so water poured in if you cracked the window in the rain. Of course, the T-tops leaked too. And, they rattled and squeaked. Silicone spray helped a little. On a sunny day, the inside of the car became a toaster oven. The air conditioner couldn’t keep up. The black interior didn’t help.
T-tops became popular when they stopped making convertibles. But, they really didn’t provide the same open driving experience, and they were a PITA to live with. I don’t miss T-tops.
First: Paul-heatwave? I was in Oregon for the past week. One day it hit 90 in Cannon City, and sitting in the coffee shop where I had internet access, you would have thought that Global Warming was now reality rather than speculation. What a bunch of wimps. This coffee shop had marrionberry muffins. I asked the owner if the muffins came with cocaine and hookers. She looked at me as if to say, “like wow dude, what do you mean!” Another patron of the cafe explained the reality of the situation to her.
But back to T-tops. When Pullman-Std was building the Superliner Ones for Amtrak, one of their many program managers (this guy actually had a heart attack which ended his PM career) had a ’74 or ’75 Hurst Olds of which he was very proud. I rode in it one time and noticed huge gobs of RTV (silicone sealant) around the perimeter of the T-tops. I asked him why the stuff was there. He said it leaked like a bitch without the sealant. My next question was “can you still take the T-tops off”. The answer was succinct-“No”.
I was tempted to do the same thing. The novelty of taking the tops off goes away, and staying dry takes priority. I traded my GP for a new 1988 Monte Carlo SS. This turned out to be a big mistake, but at least I managed to find one without T-tops.
My ’75 Vette has t-tops. Unfortunately I haven’t driven the car on the street in months- mostly because my weekends have been hijacked by my folks with their never ending home and garden projects. All I can do is stare at it as I rush past on the way to Lowe’s to pick up fertilizer and garden soil for my dad, or helping my mom rearrange her sewing room for the 70 millionth time.
Between my aging parents and down-on-their-luck friends always needing my help, I have several projects I can’t finish. I’m living in gearhead hell.
I was surrounded by people who had big, muscle-y cars with t-tops when I was in high school in the late 90s. My best friend had a ’77 Corvette, another one of my friends had a ’90 Firechicken (the car I learned to drive manual on) with a 350 (which he followed up with a ’96 Firebird with an LT1), and yet another had a ’77 Firebird (although I have no idea what engine his had, but I’m fairly certain he still has it). I dated a girl with a mid 80s Camaro with a 305, and in the meantime I weezed along with them in my ’97 Hyundai Accent. But hey, at least I had air conditioning. Right? Right?
I think the t-tops were cool, and it was always fun in the summer to drive around with them off. That said, none of the t-top equipped cars are on my list of future purchases, so I may never get to own one (Subaru just doesn’t make them).
Mullet not included.
I believe the value of an F-body today on the market without the T-tops is higher then one with. Was never a fan of them, since NJ gets a fair amount of foul weather. Anything sealed with a rubber gasket is doomed to leak no matter how much silicone dressing or armor all is applied.
Did GM do any additional body stiffening on the F-bodies to tighten them up?
No, but aftermarket subframe connectors are readily available and help a lot.
Unfortuantely T-tops are one of those things that conceptually are a great idea, but just end up being a compromise of a bunch of different things, with the negatives of all. They’re a pain to put in and take out, they end up leaking, squeaking and creaking, they compromise stiffness and weight, and when the sun shades are lost (as is inevitable in the 2nd hand market) they get too hot inside in summer. All this so you can have the wind in your hair occasionally. And a power sunroof can do that for you, so I guess that’s what killed off T-tops.
Second that. And add that they tend to get stolen frequently (happened to me twice with my 84 Datsun Z). and you had to pull over when it started raining.
But…when the tops were off, I never cared about such things.
I grew up riding in my Dad’s ’85 Mustang GT with t-tops. I hate the damn things.
I can’t tell you how many mornings I went to school with my right shoulder and/or my left thigh wet from the combination of t-tops and Ford’s crappy window regulators.
My Dad was and still is proud of his car, which he bought new. He pretty much checked every option except for the automatic, however he says if he could do it again he wouldn’t get the t-tops.
I had an 85 IROC-Z T-Top that had been converted to a Targa top- I assumed it leaked as bad as it did because of the targa conversion, didnt know the T-Tops leaked just as much. Nice thing about the Targa was it was one piece and you could quickly take it off and slide into the hatch during a red light, the interior was black so you never saw the stains but it had lots of water damage, and was dank. But it was a looker.
Thankfully none of my second gen F-cars have T-tops.
All but one of my third gen F-cars have them. Having the extra inch or two of headroom is nice & so is driving with them out. That’s offset by the summer EZ-Bake Oven, leakage issues -> rust issues, & dumb storage provision. I usually just take the driver’s side top out when I cruise around so I can avoid diddling with the storage bag.
And yeah, I’m one of those idiots who forgot to latch his driver t-top. Those things can travel a long distance when they take flight at 60mph. I spent nearly 20 minutes combing the shoulder before I found what was left of mine.
The 4th-generation F-cars had a much improved t-top design though. The 95 Z28 I used to have had slots molded into the rear well which accepted both tops. I could then latch the tops into the holder & even lock them if I desired. These never rattled or leaked. I’d definitely go for these on a 4th generation Firebird or Camaro.
BTW, the pictured ’79 is in really great shape. I’d call it beautiful if it were a different color combo.
Concur. My ’95 4th gen Z28 NEVER squeaks, leaks nor rattles. I also just mostly take out the driver side. In the winter, the panels stay out as the suns warms me.
Strangest car with t-tops would have to be the Subaru Brat/Brumby, although I’m not sure if they were ‘proper’ t-tops.
I never owned anything with T Tops, but they were all over in the late 70s. All of the disadvantages of the convertible coupled with all of the disadvantages of a fixed roof coupled with all of the disadvantages of the 1954-55 Mercury Sun Valley.
I would imagine that the little strip of steel that remains in the middle of the roof provides about zero structural rigidity. Instead, all of the roof strength is usually in the side rails that are cut out for T tops. They might as well have done a Targa roof, but for messing with a humongo glass panel that would not fit in the trunk. With all of the body flex in the roof stucture, its no wonder that the rubber gaskets in the T tops didn’t seal.
I think that once convertibles started to make a comeback in the early 80s, the day of the T top was over.
As for this car, my first thought was “Breaker, Breaker – you there Bandit?”
Our “Targa-ed” IROC was black light weight material not glass, it was a tad cumbersome but with very little practice you could take it off, and then rotate it 90 degrees and slide it right back beneath the glass hatch(which had black metal shading louvers of course.. ) all during a red light. The trunk on an 80’s IROC was not very useful- it was basically just the area under the glass, and then a strange narrow but deep well. Of course the Targa latches never worked so the car was esentially unlockable- and was in fact stolen from us 3 times- until finally we gave in and had RS wheels put on it, that seemed to stop the theft once we didnt have those aluminum IROC wheels that everyone in San Bernardino, California wanted for their Montes, Cutlasses, Regals, and Grand Prixs.
A coworker of mine in the eighties had a black Monte SS with T-tops. I drove the car one time. The rattling just about drove me crazy. She didn’t have to worry about them leaking however. When it was less than a year old, some charming person stole it out of her driveway and it was never seen again.
Our IROC T-Top Targa conversion would rattle non stop- the only thing better than the rattle was the way the Targa top would fly up after hitting a bump in the road- the vibrations undid the latches very quickly and only the rod/spike things that went into the windshield frame kept it in place. So hit a bump and you’d get a loud thump as the roof lifted a shot of sun, and then slammed back into place.
I had an 82 Mustang GT with the T roof. I loved it on the days that i had the tops off, if it started raining I’d leave it parked and tarp it.
That thing would TWIST on a hard launch even with frame connectors.
As far as the F bodies go, I’d have a hard time buying one without T-Tops.
I wish that could have been the case with us. However, my dad refused to give up his ‘Stang and for a few years the only other car was his F-100 so mom carted my brother and I around in the Mustang.
It did look pretty cool with my mom picking me up in a 5-speed Mustang GT but going to school with the right side of me wet was not, haha.
Argh! It’s T-top!! singular. There is only one top on the vehicle! Just my pet peeve. sSorry.
I owned a 1988 Nissan 300ZX that I bought from the original lady owner in 1994. She had never once taken off the t-top panels because she was afraid they would crack. Ironically, I had them off nearly every time I drove the car! I never had a leaking problem or rattling problem in that car and it always felt very solid. I think Nissan did an excellent job of engineering the t-top roof on the 300ZX. As far as the shades go, my car was dark blue with blue interior and if I used those shades it was downright claustrophobic! If you didn’t use the shades, the interior was so hot it was unbearable. I kept that car for 2 summers and traded it after I lost control on a slick December road near my house – I did a complete 360 and ended up going back in the same direction I was headed – I felt like I was in a movie or something! – LOL – The unnerving feeling that gave me was enough to say goodbye – but I’ll never forget all the looks I got in that car!