(first posted 3/26/2016) When I pulled into the empty parking space at Jerry’s, I couldn’t help but notice the bright yellow T3 Vanagon in front of me. Very nice shade of yellow. And I noticed the big wheels. And the I saw the license plate, which I don’t have to read back to you. Aha! That needs a closer look.
One can never be totally sure, just because the license plate has a magic number on it. But the exhaust system looked quite correct; for a Porsche, that is.
Still; need to be 100% sure. Good thing I’m wearing my grubby work pants….Yes; it’s the real thing. I’ve harbored fantasies about a Vanagon with a 911 engine. Who hasn’t?
Never mind…the guys at Porsche did, with their legendary T3 B32. They built nine, and mulled over the idea of building some to sell, but decided they would be too expensive and that the market was too small.
The owner/builder happened to be sitting in it, waiting for the actual shopper. He told me it was an ’83 911SC engine, transmission and much more back there (basically, the whole rear end). And I’m quite sure he said the brakes (front, I assume) were from a Boxster. There’s no doubt that he said “it scoots right along, and will cruise happily at 100”. I don’t doubt it one bit.
The VW logo on the front “grille” (only used to feed fresh air to the inside compartment) makes a clear statement about what’s in the back.
Unfortunately, my iPhone flubbed the best shot. Oh well; you get the picture.
Sweet looking Vanagon. It’s a shame that Volkswagen didn’t use Porsche engines to power their cars. Even when you consider its boxy shape, I would think that a Porsche engine would’ve allowed either this generation, or earlier VW Vanagons (Buses) faster acceleration, and possibly faster top speed.
I agree, why couldn’t VW make these from the factory with enough power and braking to not be a hazard on the road? A little more power from a less stressed engine would go a long way toward better reliability too. Yellow there looks to be nicely done.
From people I know who had VW Buses, they liked that they could run barely at the speed limit. People who had/have these are not your typical car owner.
I agree. I’ve never owned a Volkswagen Vanagon, but I’ve seen plenty of them on the road over the years, and I’ve had to follow some up steep hills, and wonder “what the hell is taking this guy so long?!” You can’t do much about the shape of the van, but the manufacturer should’ve offered a much larger engine, either an air-cooled Porsche engine, an air-cooled Corvair engine, or a water-cooled Porsche engine. Anything that produces more horsepower and torque to help move the bus up a steep hill.
Nice. Apparently David Crosby had a T1 with a Porsche engine in the 1960s, but don’t know which engine.
They were better than the wretched bus that came before, I guess. This one looks nice with the yellow paint and larger wheels. Wonder what the interior was like.
The Porsche B32 was the factory equivalent developed for racing-team support; it had the 231 PS Carrera engine, some suspension tuning, & was said to be able to hit 135mph.
I worked at Porsche from 1999 for 15 years and stories of various, ahem, “exploits” in these were legendary, as was their thirst! I’m sure some of these must still exist…
“… and will cruise happily at 100”
While I have no doubt the drive-train is up for it, I can’t imagine being in the driver’s seat going that fast in that rear-heavy box.
I own one of these, exact thought that popped into my head. It’s brutal enough at 60 with a mild crosswind, going that fast would be terrifying.
There was a factory limited edition version of these with a 911 engine, so the swap is kinda vw-approved.
And who has actually seen one?
Some 600-700 Oettinger WBX6’s were built.
No; not a 911 engine. VW worked with Oettinger to develop a six cylinder version of the ‘Wasserboxer” VW four, but never put it into production. So Oettinger went ahead and built some on their own, the WBX6. There were 32. and 3.7 L versions, with 165 and 180 hp.
Officially called the T3 Carrera, it was a special edition that was cancelled at the last minute but 10 vans were built with porsche engine, transmission and brakes. Some info in german: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/fahrberichte/vw-t3-carrera-t3-bulli-mit-porsche-motor-1102316.html
Yes. The Porsche T3 was quite the boxy bomb. He was referring to VW.
Paul is correct. You can read my article about the Oettinger flat six at this link:
http://www.corvair.org/chapters/lvcc/lvcc_newsletters/lvcc_2014_01_fifth_wheel.pdf
I see that one version displaced 226 in^3, same as the venerable Continental six, which was discussed here a few days ago. Of course it’s hardly a profound insight that two engines can share a displacement and nothing else, but this is an extreme example!
I wonder what the gas mileage is like in a Porsche powered Vanagon ?
I’m not sure what the mileage would be like. On one hand, you’ve got a bigger, more powerful engine that doesn’t have to work nearly as hard as the original four…but it’s also pushing something with the aerodynamics of a cement block. Still, I think it’s the perfect drivetrain swap for one of these. I’ve heard of Subaru engines being used as well, but I like the sleeper vibe that the Porsche engine gives an old Vanagon.
I agree. Whatever the shape of the vehicle, you need something that moves the vehicle fast enough to keep up with Autobahn traffic, or even our American freeway traffic. Just as important as being able to go, how about stopping? 🙂
I checked some facts on ze German Wikipedia site about the current VW T6.
204 hp from both the most powerful gasoline engine (2.0 TSI) and the most powerful diesel engine (2.0 TDI BiTurbo), top speed just over 200 km/h.
I’d say that’s enough…no more engine swaps.
Now if we could just get the T6 California In California…
I like the TDI idea. Anything that delivers acceptable acceleration, while also achieving better fuel economy, I’d appreciate.
The VW T3 (like in this article) is the last gen I saw -or heard- with a gasoline engine.
There’s something ironic about foreign manufacturers using the California name for vehicles that aren’t sold there.
On the other hand:
-Did a Pontiac Grand Prix ever win a Grand Prix ?
-How many cars with Royal(e) in the model name were actually built in a monarchy ?
(Just imagine a DAF 33 DeLuxe Républicain…)
-How many people in Calais owned a Cadillac Calais ? Ditto the Chevrolet Monte Carlo, and many others.
-How many captains drove an Opel Kapitän ?
You get the point.
The various Hillman Californians come to mind.
https://barnfinds.com/rare-1955-hillman-minx-californian/
https://bringatrailer.com/2020/03/07/1968-hillman-imp-californian/
The California is a motorhome; the Westfalia successor, in other words.
I’ve seen or read about all sorts of different power trains in VW vans. My favorite was probably the road cow. Painted like the chick filet cows and powered by a 1.7-1.8 hemi looking toyota 4. He used to have a blog but I haven’t looked since I got VWs out of my life.
Had a 56 van and it was bad enough. This is one of those things that if someone gave it to me I likely couldn’t afford to keep it going. Impressive.
Some T3’s built in South Africa had the 5-cylinder engine seen in many Audis.
For a while the T3 was available with the pre-TDI 1.6-liter 68-bhp turbodiesel. I briefly had an ’84 VW Quantum with this engine, and all I can say is the T3 with the same engine must have been dog slow.
I once saw a T3 in Seattle with VR6 badge. Am I right, this wasn’t a factory option?
Someone in my neighborhood has a T3 with a Mazda “Rotary Engine” badge on it. I’ve heard it go by, and it sounds as if the engine lives up to the badge.
The VR6 was available on the T4/Eurovan, but I’m pretty sure it didn’t exist yet during the Vanagon’s US availability.
a german family who owned a motel near where I grew up had a 70’s avocado green westfalia that was Porsche powered. I remember being in a long line of traffic with my dad when it went sailing past everyone.
talk about a nuclear powered toaster!
When I was a kid, any boy whose family had a T2 bus would claim that it had a Porsche motor. What they were referring to was Porsche 914s and 912Es having VW bus engines rather than the other way around, and they were encouraged to believe this made them Porsche engines by the adult men in their families that owned the buses. Were these guys gullible rubes taken in by salesmen, or was there something about men that bought VW buses? Considering that most of the fathers at my schools were providing their wives with station wagons that had engines with displacements of at least seven liters, talking about the engines in VW buses seemed like an odd way to boast.
In the early ’80’s a mechanic that worked at a VW dealership I worked at had a 911 drivetrain in his ’71 Westfaila pop top camper. I rode with him in it a few times, it had no problem passing and keeping up with traffic. It looked stock. He had no 911 badging, he went the “sleeper” route. It had a great sound when he revved it up!
When he eventually sold it, he put the stock VW drivetrain back in, said he didn’t want to be liable for some one buying it from him and wrecking it. In sue happy So Cal, probably a smart move. I believe he later sold the Porsche engine and transmission.
Good spot, but is it fast VW or a stealth 911:-)
I would think a Porsche 911 engine would turn any VW into a Stealth. 🙂
Now this is a sleeper. Yesterday, I flipped back and forth a few times bypassing this Van (maybe the yellow paint which puts me to sleep) searching for the latest in broughomey-malaise and had no idea what I was overlooking. The next day – now – I was flipping through again as I always do first thing and then having one of those ahh-duhhh-eyes-glazed-introspection moments sitting here at the computer when I finally became aware at what I was looking at. Effortless 100 … do dee do
Whoa! Wait, what???
I was duped!
I’ve seen this done before with the Vanagons, but the goodness lurking beneath is as easy to spot as, well, something cliche that is typically easy to spot (I’ll figure something out later to put in there later, I’m sure…). Usually it’s the B32 with Porsche rims such as the attached pic that totally screams the opposite of sleeper — awaker? When I saw this yellow bus with mags I honestly thought of something more juvenile and, independently speaking, superficial. Yawn. But obviously twasn’t the case here!
Fantastic! It’s like getting pulled over by a minivan that lights up a Christmas tree. In passing, who would’ve thought to care otherwise? It’s like life has become so predictable and boring because everything is “old hat” and recognizable that when a surprise like this comes along it makes you feel like a kid again. This van today totally did that to me.
(pic source: http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/techno-classica-volkswagen/25408)
VW South Africa in Uitenhage built T3s until 2002 or 2003, available with 5 cylinder Audi 2.3 or 2.6 engines, delivering 130 to 140 hp. This is what I’d address “sufficient” power for that size of a car. German special police units had some T3s converted with these drivetrains. I am a happy owner of such an ex-police sleeper.
Though it is true I am not tempted to drive at high speeds longer than necessary all of our family say it presents a lot of Fahrvergnügen.
Joe
There used to be a T3 in my Seattle neighborhood with a rotary-engine badge, clearly from a Mazda. I heard it go by a couple of times, and it sounded as if the engine swap had in fact happened.
Some years ago I was reading the technical-questions column in a VW buffs’ magazine. Someone with a T2 had written in as follows: “My van needs a valve job, which I can’t afford. I’d like to put a 911 engine in it. I have very little wrenching experience.”
The response: “You can’t afford a valve job, but you think you can afford a 911 engine? You have no wrenching experience, but you want to do an engine swap? They must have some great drugs in your town.”
We used to get askers just like the one you describe on a semi-regular basis when I was answering questions on the Slant-6 boards. Giant dreams, but no money; time; facilities; tools, experience, or knowledge. It never mattered how gently I tried to break the news (reality) to them; they always took offence. Not a single one of them, to my knowledge, ever came even a little bit close to fulfilling their grandiose plans. Sometimes they failed in spectacular fashion.
Any instances where the proposed swap was absurd on its face aside from the asker’s qualifications?
Yeah, actually. Dude posted:
New to working on a Slant 6, with limited mechanical ability. Have a 74 Dart Swinger, pristine body & interior and a Slant 225. This past summer (2021) ran great – but always had a bit of a bog upon sharp acceleration – (yes I know it’s a 6, not an 8). Early this fall, all of a sudden following an extended parked idle at a friends house, on the way home it died upon acceleration at approx 40 mph. First sensation was a lack of response in acceleration, then just a total bog down, which resulted in a total stall. So I replaced the coil, ballast resistor, ignition module, voltage regulator. Checked all wires and vacuum hoses to make sure connected. All were fine. (I dont know how to check actual vacuum readings, beyond my expertise). Tried driving on level road at speed. It died in the same manner, bog on acceleration once warm at about 30-40 mph. Restarts after about 5 mins, and I can limp home at slow speed. Replaced EGR valve with a NOS appropriate Mopar part. No change. Same symptoms. I re calibrated carb settings (mix and idle) by seating the screws and backing out 2 1/4 turns each.
I just can’t figure out what it is based on my limited expertise. So… I’m thinking vacuum advance or distributor pickup? The tranny seems to shift fine, hoping it isn’t the tranny. Maybe I should just drop a 360 crate in it, update the 904 tranny to a 727 and update the rear end 7.25 to an 8.25 sure grip posi. If this was your child, what would you do?
Huhboy. He’s randomly fiddling with the screws on the carburetor; doesn’t know how to check the, like, whatchyamacallit, vacuum stuff; throwing random parts at the car—pretty good odds some or all of them aren’t properly installed, given that he hope the transmission, of all things, isn’t causing his engine to stall—and he muses about replacing the entire drivetrain. I replied at great and handholding length, with lots of specific suggestions. Here is an excerpt:
I understand the urge to »do something« about the problem, but throwing parts at the car like this is an efficient way to drain your wallet and will almost never fix the problem. More than that, if you take this shotgun approach and you do happen to accidentally fix the problem (or seem to fix it), you won’t know what the problem really was and you’ll learn nothing about how the car works.
Instead of just buying parts at random, you will need to do some diagnosis to home in on the problem and figure out what needs to be fixed, adjusted, or replaced. Get the service manual and read it. This will take some time and effort; that goes with the territory when you own an old car.
If I were faced with a car that would stall like this and refuse to restart until some number of minutes had passed, one of my first suspicions would be that there’s trash in the fuel system. What can happen is that the trash gradually gets sucked up against the filter sock in the tank and/or the dirty side of the fuel filter, then when you punch the gas there’s not enough fuel flow to meet the engine’s needs and it dies. Your five minutes are spent waiting for the trash to float back off and away from the strainer and/or filter, then the engine will start again.
But that’s just one thing that could cause this problem, it’s not the only thing. Read. Learn. Diagnose. Repair.
A complete drivetrain swap to a hairy V8 is not really a way to fix the problem, without introducing at least as many new problems. If that’s the kind of car you want, go find and buy it—if you set out to restomod your car with a whole new engine, transmission, rear axle, etc, you will spend a staggering amount of money and the overwhelming odds are that if the project actually gets completed—which it probably won’t—you will wind up disappointed and unhappy.
Dude came back with this:
A sidetracked discussion relative to what I will or will not enjoy, complete or be able to afford? That’s just ego unchecked. I’m no dunce, but I’m not a mechanic. I’m asking questions to those willing to help. I’m not takin your disparaging attitude.
K, dude, g’luck widdat! Because it’s the internet, I couldn’t resist bowing out of the thread with this:
It sounds like his fuel filler cap had a clogged breather. I’ve had someone come to me after another shop replaced parts much like the young man looking for guidance did, having been unable to diagnose the issue correctly. Red Bull Racing had twin retirements in last week’s grand prix because of vacuum in their fuel tanks.
The rest of his symptoms (not all reported here) didn’t match a clogged fuel tank vent.
A VW bus/transporter/T???, whatever, with a 911 engine is the stuff every guy chugging up a moderate hill in 3rd gear at 45 dreams of. Top or high speed is far less important than being able to comfortably run with traffic, including UP HILL. Doing 110 on the ET highway, yeah, nice. Doing 70 and being able to accelerate uphill going up I80 or any other 7K elevation freeway pass, winner. Big winner. Everybody thinks about it, dreams about it, but one in a million does it.
Regardless, cool, way cool.