When I first saw this burn victim VW, I assumed it had been abandoned here. But not so.
It clearly had been driven here, and was still in driving condition. The sign in the rear window was a parking pass from the Salvation Army building across the alley. So maybe it’s gotten salvation from its nasty burns. I’m not sure what the police would say about that rear license plate, but then I’ve seen more marginal cars running around here.
well then I guess the magnesium case never caught on fire!
Peoples sure do love their bugs and it is nice to see one saved from the scrap yard, but has the fire compromised strctural integrity? I sure hope they get new plates or a ticket though since it is just foolish to drive around with that rear plate.
I’ve seen people running Oregon plates that don’t look any better than that just from being sunburned after a dozen or more years on the car.
Not like there was much wiring to repair on that car. A little Rustoleum would do wonders comsmetically, tho.
Wow, luckily there isn’t a lot of structure back there to compromise. They must have smacked another motor in it and kept driving.
Possible cause is clear plastic fuel filter. Very nice to see what’s going on inside, but on VWs they are often mounted on the pressurized fuel line for convenience. The plastic gets old, or hot and whoosh, instant nice big fire. The damage to this car seems to be more on the left side too, which is the fuel pump side.
I’m using a metal filter so hope to avoid this problem…
Or the grommet wears away where the fuel line passes through the tin, which leads to the same problem after the line is cut through from vibration.
Or the fuel line slips off the filter-
I know it’s a low pressure system, but given gasoline is flammable, a $5 set of hose clamps seems appropriate,
This was not an uncommon problem back in the day. I was led to believe that the plastic, the preferred inline fuel filter, would rub against the coil connection until it was perforated, and then the fuel sprayed into the engine bay and onto the exhaust. The photo above illustrates this perfectly! It was recommended that the fuel filter be installed with a much longer length of hose to keep it well away from the coil, and then zip tied in place.
It did not necessarily total the vehicle if it could be extinguished in time, but required replacing a lot of electrical and plastic parts, and maybe the rear glass.
ALL bullshit urban myths from people who fail to do routine maintenance .
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Yes, VW’s often caught fire, _no_ never if you took any sort of care of them and at least looked under the deck lid occasionally .
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No need for hose clamps, just use the proper metric hose .
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-Nate
Why is it BS? It’s a bad design to start with, as there is nothing to keep the fuel line and filter from rubbing against other parts.
At least on GM engines, they used a steel line between the fuel pump and the carburetor, properly secured along the way.
Ford used steel line from pump to carb also. I have never liked seeing a rubber hose come up to the intake manifold, with a plastic fuel filter spliced in, before reaching the carb. This one over the distributor would worry me and if I had ever owned a Bug would have no doubt re-routed it for my peace of mind.
I have read that the high alcohol content in modern gasolines will eat rubber parts in an old car’s fuel system, which can lead to fuel leakage and fire. Does a VW’s fuel system configuration make the cars susceptible to this?
Somewhat. The fabric covered German hose can look OK on the outside, but be seriously cracked within. That was the source of many of these fires back in the day. I use modern fuel injection hose with clamps on air cooled VW’s today.
Mom’s ’72 Buick suffered a massive fuel leak with the introduction of ethanol blended gasoline. So, it was not just the German hoses that went bad.
Wow. I wonder why the fire didn’t get bigger and consume the whole back half of the car, which is the usual fate. Even extinguisher in hand, I can’t imagine getting the hood open to put it out once a fire has started back there. Maybe it was just very low on gas.
I drove my Bug around Boston like a maniac when I was 18-19, and a Pinto after that. No worries then of course. I did wear a lap belt, but now I can think of so many ways it could have ended in tears…
Considering the parking pass, I’d bet it was towed there as a donation.
Now that’s patina!
Donated to the Salvation Army store across the alley..
it’s not a store, but an office/service center. And Salvation Army doesn’t do cars here in Eugene; some other charities do. I suspect maybe they were in to get some other kind of services; housing, etc.
This happened to my brother back in the day. Driving down a busy L.A. street in the mid eighties with unbeknownst to him a fire emanating from the back of the Bug. People were gesticulating trying to alert him and his response was to flip them the bird with a big “F you too!” Actual message was finally received.
What do you do with an old VW? Turn it into a BBQ grille. The burn marks are consistent with such use and the hood vents are perfect for venting the smoke. The bumper has even been removed so you don’t have to reach so far to flip your burgers, but the bumper mounts are still present to hang utensils on. That’s not a parking pass on the rear window but recipe for Cajun ribs. I’ll bet the front luggage compartment has been transformed into a beer cooler.
Well, Nate, what caused those engine fires?
I’ll agree that the metric braided fuel line fit the best and didn’t need to be clamped or tied when new, but it hardened with age like all rubber parts, and split on the ends, and that fuel filter did have a certain weight to it and moved when you hit a bump, unless it was properly secured, but yeah, I guess it was all bullshit…
And of course all aircooled VW owners were skilled mechanics and diligent in regular preventative maintenance. [sarcasm]
I never had any problems running plastic fuel filters on my old vw van for a decade in the 90’s. I loved it being one of the few parts I could pick up at any parts place or garden center.
But I must have been a rare owner that actually followed the maintenance schedule. I also changed out the fuel lines which were not the metric ones so I had to buy some hose clamps to keep it from leaking.
I seem to remember more aircooled vw’s catching fire from faulty gas heaters in my neck of the woods (Canada) 😉
As I said :
Failure of cheap and lazy owners .
I repaired hundreds of VW’s that burned like this…..
A doggone shame .
I’ve put millions of miles on old beat to death air cooled VW’s and never once had any fires .
Yes, occasionally the original Solex carbys inlet nipple fell out, in every case I have seen there was missing sheet metal allowing the engine to run too hot .
If you operate a machine out side it’s design parameters don’t be complaining when it fails, it’s _YOUR_ fault .
Those here who know me often comment on how fast and hard I drive my old VW’s, almost every one rescued from some junk pile .
-Nate
Cheap and lazy owners? That is all well and good from your point of view given that you know exactly what you are doing. However, most car buyers, Bugs owners included back then, weren’t necessarily cheap or lazy. No, they were just your run of the mill average car owner. So in a sense you could say cheap and lazy about owners of all makes of cars.
Short of instituting a owners examination before buying a car you will have to be content that many car owners simply think you get in, turn the key, get the car to run, and then drive down the street. Then when something happens accept the fact that they go “oh, great just what I need now!” My wife, father, mother, and sister fit that profile fairly closely with two sons who are mechanics.
I also certainly wouldn’t start talking with a new owner back then about whether or not they knew how to stay within the design parameters of the car.
Nate,
I’m glad you know so much about servicing the Beetles. Pity about your condescencing tone and disdain choice of words because you could empower them to become more proficient in maintaining and repairing their Beetles.
When 1971 Alfa Romeo 1750A Berlina was bequested to me, I was 16-year-old teenager guy who had no idea how to maintain or even repair the car. It took me a lot of time to learn through trial-and-error as well as lot of helpful tips from Tom Chapman of Alfa Velco (Plano, Texas) and others. Not to mention spending a lot of money on learning my lessons…
The first year was very hard for me due to the steep learning curve. After learning as much as I could with maintaining Alfa Romeo, everything was real peachy. Eventually, I knew most of time what was wrong with the car by sensing different types of noises and vibrations as well as changing behaviours. Sometimes, I had to ask the experienced mechanic at Alfa Velco to point out what’s the problem and what I should do to fix it.
My 1982 Buick Skylark had a small engine fire because I didn’t realise that unscrewing the fuel filter housing from the carburettor in clockwise rather than usual anti-clockwise movement. That stripped the threads in the carburettor, forcing me to buy a second-hand carburettor from the abandoned car.
The biggest reason I abandoned the automotive-related newsgroups in the past was those flame wars, slugfests, bitching sessions, ‘anything goes’, etc. Thankfully, Curbside Classic isn’t like those newsgroups, and I appreciate lot of informative and thoughful comments. If the commentators are wrong, they are politely corrected by other commentators.
What I don’t appreciate is one loudmouth blaring at others for their incompetency or ignorance. It is more and more grating to read your comments, Nate.
Understood O.T. ;
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I always took the time to try to explain the importance of fuel hose replacement to every single person I ever met who had a VW, even back when they were new cars I was working on .
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Some appreciated this, others smugly decided I was trying to sell unnecessary service .
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Unlike some here I don’t ever claim to know it all, I do however feel that failure to share accumulated knowledge and experience is wrong .
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I don’t try to be condescending, I try to be helpful .
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So many fuel injected VW’s came back on the hook a month or two after I’d warned about the impending disaster or mentioned I had or knew where to get cheaply, the often gone missing sheet metal parts that I was usually told ‘ aren’t important stupid ! ‘ .
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BTW: opening the deck lid on a flaming Beetle normally causes a flash due to more oxygen suddenly getting in and destroying the car .
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-Nate
Didn’t the hose nipple on some of those Solex carbs have a tendency to come loose and leak? Right on the distributor………
Yeah, Nate mentioned that in one of his posts (see above). I’m not sure if I’m reading it correctly, but he mentions something about overheating of the engine (due to missing sheet metal) being a possible cause.
Having owned Corvairs and looked at many old Beetles with the thought of purchasing one, I’ve seen my share of missing engine sheet metal, Not sure if it’s to avoid the trouble of reinstalling it, or a lack of understanding of how the fan-forced air has to be routed over certain components. If they were built today, these parts would probably have large, yellow decals on them, stating, “DO NOT OPERATE ENGINE WITHOUT THIS SHROUD IN PLACE.” Or more likely, some sensor would prevent the engine from running without it…and send a text alert to your cell phone. ?
A few decades ago, my Mom’s 70 VW Squareback fuel line popped off the tee-fitting atop the engine that split the fuel supply to the left and right bank injectors. The car was about 5 years old at the time. There were NO fuel-line clamps! By some miracle, it didn’t burst into flames. Who builds a pressurized fuel-injection system without fuel-line clamps?! Even my lawnmowers have fuel-line clamps!
I replaced all that crappy cloth-covered fuel-line with double-wall rubber and added clamps, which lasted until the car was sold eight years later.
Happy Motoring, Mark
Actually ;
All Typ III’s with fuel injection (added in 1968) had a crimped typ of hose clamp .
That you didn’t understand the engineering that went into it, doesn’t make it bad .
I’ve had quite a few Typ III’s with fuel injection, all were great cars ~ all of them and the very first thing I did upon initial purchase was replace _ALL_ the damned, special, double wall, reinforced 7MM fuel hose ~ what a PIA but then, I find fuel fires un acceptable and choose to be pro active, not ignore obvious problems and then blame the manufacturer .
-Nate
I stand by my statement. There were clamps on the injectors. None on the line that blew off the tee – crimped or otherwise. This particular Squareback was a dealer demo. After purchase, there were signs indicating things had happened to the car before they unloaded it on my folks. Things like paint fading more quickly on some of the body panels, and a dealer-installed AC system that was literally a hack-job. If that fuel fitting had clamps when it left the factory, who knows what may have been altered at the dealer or during the AC install?
Happy Motoring, Mark
The BOSCH D-Jetronic fuel injection system it had, ran 32 # fuel pressure at all times, no way any hose would stay connected sans clamps .
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I have no doubt the $tealer burned your folks as I’ve seen more B.S. dishonest crap of dealer maintained vehicles over my career but no clamps hose would have popped off in a matter of seconds .
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” you canna change the laws of physics Jim ! ” .
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-Nate
The VW fuel tee had a barb on it. Maybe, with a new, tight hose, it was OK for awhile. Or perhaps, if there was a crimp-on fitting, it popped off and disappeared when the hose blew.
I worked in an indie BMW shop for two years. Many ’80s models came from factory with a multi-barbed, plastic tee to split the fuel supply between the fuel-rail and cold-start injector – without clamps!
Those cars were using proper fuel-injection hose, which was pretty tough. It was almost impossible to remove without cutting, and I never saw one blow off. But fuel seepage at the tee was common after a few years.
Routine fuel hose maintenance & replacement included a new plastic tee – with clamps.
Personally, whenever I’ve replaced a plastic fuel tee, I used a brass one.
Happy Motoring, Mark
Dig it Mark ;
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Those fuel tees, IIRC, were nylon and VW didn’t use them, only steel .
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I don’t trust non metal fuel pipes one bit .
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-Nate
I noticed on my Saab 96 there’s a nice rubber grommet around the hole where the fuel hose passes through the steel rear seat base. Some manufacturers were at least aware of the possibility of the hoses chaffing through.
This happened to a neighbor’s VW years ago. However, the fire extended thru the back seat and windows and car was totaled. Nothing more than a parts car after that.
I’ll never forget the time I replaced the clutch in dad’s ’67 Beetle in the driveway, and as I headed around the corner the engine began to sputter and I saw flames in the back window. I did the worlds fastest sprint to the Winnebago in our driveway and grabbed the fire extinguisher and put the fire out. I opened the VW’s engine lid before I ran to the motorhome and this saved the car’s paint from fire blisters. It was the infamous inlet tube popping out of the carb, with the brand new genuine VW fuel hose and worm type hose clamp still attached. I learned that VW mechanics pull the tube out and use vice grips to put bumps on the tube, then tap it back in and it will then stay in forever.
Back in the day this or more commonly rotten fuel line or aftermarket plastic fuel filters would be the cause. At the dealership I worked at around ’75 we sold glass fuel filters with a replaceable element for this reason. I think they were EMPI brand. Turns out over time, vibration would cause them to slowly unscrew themselves (the ends were threaded so it could be taken apart to replace the element) and they were causing fires as well!
While there was some debate to the exact source of ignition, I believe it was usually the sparking commutator brushes in the generator.
The reason the fire stops is that once ignition parts are destroyed or the carb empties of fuel, whichever comes first, the engine stops and so does the mechanical fuel pump. I dont like to see electric fuel pumps added to these cars without an oil pressure relay or some other means of automatically shutting off.