Proton, the automaker formerly owned by the Malaysian government, made their name building and exporting Mitsubishi cast-offs. Indeed, they didn’t engineer their own car until 2000 (the Waja) and continued selling rehashed Mitsubishis into the new century. One of these was the M21, which poses the question: would you buy a brand new example of a discontinued car if the price was low?
The M21 was based on the 1991-96 Mitsubishi Lancer (Mirage), and arrived on the market shortly after a new generation of Lancer launched. Proton’s first coupe was almost identical visually to the superseded Lancer coupe. Fortunately, it had some minor specification tweaks to keep it fresh, like a stronger DOHC 16V version of the Mitsubishi 1.8 four with an extra 18 horsepower (to a total of 134 hp). There were also sporty Recaro bucket seats and full power accessories. Evidently, Mitsubishi hadn’t improved the new Lancer much because Which Car? magazine scored the two cars almost identically in a comparison test.
New and fresh sells, especially in the compact coupe market. Thus, despite annual price cuts the M21 sold poorly – even by Proton’s dismal standards – and was discontinued in 2000. It had a gutsy engine and competitive handling, but its looks were dated inside and out.
Amusingly, the Malaysian-market M21 (badged Putra) was axed in 2001 but briefly reintroduced just for 2004 to use up remaining stocks. This made the 2004 Putra a brand new version of a discontinued car that was a brand new version of a discontinued car.
Other brands like Chevrolet have also continued producing previous-generation models, selling them alongside the new cars. So, I pose two questions: firstly, would you buy a brand new superseded model instead of its replacement? Secondly, would you buy that same car if it was built under license by a budget automaker?
Yes…well, it depends on the car. Last-gen Mitsubishi lancer that they sell as the Lancer EX? No, VW CityGolf that’s a Mk.I GTI in all but name and raised ride height? Yes.
It would depend on two things.
1: If the car in question is still appealing in some way shape or form.
2: If the replacement feels inferior in key areas compared to its predecessor.
Other than that, I would absolutely buy a brand new old car if the price is right.
The Proton definitely struck out on driveability. The one I rode in (dealer stock) had a really rough idle, apparently an engine management issue in meeting our emission requirements, so I was told. Definitely no deal – I’d buy a used Mitsubishi before a Proton.
I wouldn’t buy from a budget automaker, period. Secondly, it would have to be a significant change for me to consider a superseded model over the incoming one. Say, for example, if last year I was shopping for a new Ford F150 and didn’t want the aluminum body, maybe I would have bought a 2014 model. But for the most part I wouldn’t do it. I can’t understand why GM keeps making the old models for rental fleets. Wouldn’t you want your latest offerings available for rental just in case someone finds your car desirable enough to purchase one of their own? I know the tooling is paid for, but at what cost in corporate image? You don’t see the most successful automakers doing this.
Well its a mix of both, I work near an Enterprise location and they have about the same number Impala Limiteds and new Impalas at the same time, the new Impalas are actually nice LTZ models, nicer than the usual rental spec base or base+1 equipment.
Lots of “successful” companies keep old body style cars in production, the 1975 era Golf/Rabbit is still in sold in South Africa, the 1970-1979 era VW bus was still being sold new in Brazil until last year. Nissan still sells the 90’s era Sentra in South America, this isn’t exactly a new scenario.
The old school rear engine Beetle was in production in Mexico up until the 90s or so….VW fans were chomping at the bit to try to get them here.
That’s the key difference – there was a sizeable body of fans of the old-tech old model, because it had character. Polarising, sure, but character nonetheless. Many older models kept in production lack that.
There was an outfit taking Hindustan Ambassadors to England to cash in on the retro market basically selling a 1958 Morris Oxford in the 90s I dont know how it went as an enterprise from what I could gather they ran into problems getting them on the road legally.
BTW, good to see you back Carmine. We don’t share taste in cars but your insight ranges from knowledgeable to entertaining as hell.
I traveled with relatives late last year, and the rental company we used only offered the “old” Impala. It was OK, but I would’ve preferred to have sampled the new one, not the 6 year old car.
As for the other examples you mentioned, you don’t see them being “rerun” in the US market, and those manufacturers don’t replay other models here, either. I think if fleet selling superseded models was lucrative, you’d see manufacturers other than GM engaging in the same practice.
I know we’re not agreeing on this issue, but I’m glad you’re back, Carmine.
Simply put, there really no cost to the corporate image of GM in regards to selling older models to rental fleets/Govt fleets(the Impala Limited is also sold to govt entities and police departments)
What most folks want in a rental car is that it runs and is comfortable to drive/ride in) they are not concerned with looks only to get the most bang for the buck.
In fact in ways it is actually more of a determent for a company to have its latest offerings as rental/fleet cars. Take the 2000-2007 Ford Taurus for instance. Most made were sold to rental fleets and the US public perception of the 2000-2007 Taurus was that of a rental car special and next to nobody outside of fleet folks bought the car after 2004.
It is the hallmark of a successful company to be able to squeeze out a few more dollars on an older model while also offering a new model at the same time. Buying the limited saves money for the rental company so they can buy more cars and gives GM more money from a platform that has been paid off years ago.
I for sure would buy a new / old car if the price was right. I don’t need a high end piece of machinery to go grocery shopping, and to the liquor store.
The experience in America with the early Hyundai Excel, which also shared many aging Mitsubishi parts was not a good one for most. Given Proton held on to this model so long, too bad they did nothing to make it their own. Argentina was pretty good doing that with Peugeot 504 and the Ford Falcon, both of which they made forever. Not even handling by Lotus?
There was a hot-hatch (well, warm?) version that wore the handling by Lotus badge, Satria GTi I think, that even had a one-make race series.
As the Button Plan of the 80s showed, people more often buy the original even when the ‘shared’ model still comes from a mainstream manufacturer. Similar to the Toyota/GM Nummi models.
The consultancy has helped Lotus and even Porsche through dark days, but it must be painful to admit it with actual badges on the cars.
I bought a 2012 Pathfinder – the previous generation body on frame model – after the 2013 unibody ones came out. I had specifically wanted either a pickup or a body on frame SUV. They were offering a giant pile of cash on the hood, and I was able to find one in the color and trim I wanted. I paid about 9k under MSRP.
So, yes, I would, if the price is right and there is a compelling reason.
From a budget automaker, I’d be rather reluctant, though.
No.
But I would consider a lightly used car of that kind.
I just hope they can use materials as good as the ’06-’09 Impala for the current Impala Limited. Previous W-body Impala has quite nice interior on LTZ models, while the current Limited only has those like old LT or LS on LTZ models.
Audi A4 or Seat Exeo? Second-hand A4, thanks.
Interesting. I was thinking about the Exeo when I wrote this. For those not as familiar with the European car market, Big Al is referring to Seat’s flagship sedan and wagon from 2008-13 that was simply a B7-series Audi A4 with slightly different front and rear end styling.
Big Al, why would you buy a used A4 instead?
The Seat Exeo ST, formerly known as the B-7 series Audi A4 Avant.
I can’t remember seeing an Exeo. Probably because I thought it was an Audi.
Wagons sold better than the sedan, They were re engineered by Seat to give better rear leg room and had the nicer A4 convertible dash . In fact a better car than the Audi but Seat is considered the VAG budget brand so no prestige and expensive.
Sure, if the newer version is a downgrade then why not? The XJ Cherokee was an old truck still in production up til ’02…the Liberty that replaced it was never quite as capable offroad and didnt offer the available upgrades that the old XJ would happily accept. The current Cherokee is nowhere near a true Jeep, even if its a very good ‘car’.
The 2nd gen Neon was a dismal downgrade from the original. It was hampered by the less powerful SOHC engine and you were stuck with one bodystyle, a dumpy sedan. SRT-4 answered back in terms of performance but it was still an ugly car.
The current Wrangler is nothing like the TJ/YJ/CJ series. If I could buy a brand new Scrambler with a slight bend in rules to upgrade to an AMC 304 (theoretically possible for MY 1981) then count me in! The Pentastar is a nice engine for a V6, but the 3.8 minivan engine was an abomination for Jeep use.
If a ’68-’70 Charger were available brand new then Id be all over it. The current one is a HUGE downgrade in some ways: Sedan bodystyle, no manual trans. Hell, if the 340 Duster were still in production, thats a no brainer also.
Even the 2015 Challenger is a mixed bag. If youre one of the lucky few that can get a HellCat then I definitely see the appeal. But if an R/T with the 392 or 345 Hemi is more realisitc then Id say give me the 2014 or older….those, you could get without that stupid screen in the dash, and you could get Deep Water blue or Hemi Orange. While we’re at it, if the Magnum wagon could re-enter production Id have a tough choice between it and the Chally since both have their own appeal.
The GM example is a good one when juxtaposed with the generally good advice to never buy any GM product in its first year. In terms of buying a long-term keeper with an eye to avoiding hefty repair bills down the line, a well-proven design may be a better choice. For long-term ownership, I’d take a 1986 Fox-body Ford LTD over a 1986 Taurus, a Volvo 240 over a 740 of the same age, a 1982 G-body Olds Cutlass Supreme over an ’82 Ciera, and a 1989 Ciera over a 1989 GM10 Cutlass Supreme.
Still, without proper safety updates, all good things must come to an end, like the FJ70 Toyota Land Cruiser. Advances in modern metallurgy are far too good at improving crash survivability for me to pass up entirely. But I wonder how much re-engineering could be done to save older body shells. Ford has done piles of “redesigns” that leave the glass intact and barely change the body shell, but improve safety (see Taurus generations 1-2, 3-4, Fusion generations 1-2, Edge generations 1-2, Grand Marquis 1992-2011, Ford F150 2004-2014).
I pined over the 70’s vw van made in Brazil until it was discontinued. So yes I would. But once I did the conversion to CDN $ and shipping that dream went out the window. I am hoping that with our loose 15 year import window that some might show up as there are enough goofy right hand drive Japanese vans driving around Vancouver island…
Well, William, I’d have the second-hand B7 Audi because of its originality in comparison to the what I think is the derivative nature of the Seat. It’s obviously a recycled Audi. A hand-me-down. I also, perhaps wrongly, think that anyone buying the Exeo isn’t aware (or doesn’t care) of it’s parentage. And I am in neither category. Funnily enough, I’d never find myself in this position anyway, as I don’t like either car much. Thanks for asking, though.
Like everyone else here, I might, depending on the vehicle. One anecdote that comes to mind is the example of my father back in 2003, who opted not to lease a third Chrysler 300M despite having really liked the two that he had consecutively leased from ’99-03. In his case he broke precedent after 30 years of trading up from one to the next Chrysler flagships and leased the then new Cadillac CTS. The decision was based solely on not wanting to drive a third example of the same-car-different-color. The CTS was new and something different. He despised that car, and had terrible luck with it. Not a completely on-topic example, but there’s sometimes some validity to “If something works you stick with it”. (Incidentally this experience also gives creedance to the ” First year GM theory” referenced in earlier posts)
I believe one of the only Eagle Summit coupes I’ve ever seen was that exact same color. Another rare rebadge of the Mirage.
I remember those too. FWIW, I prefer these or the later Mirages to the 4-door only Lancers. Why Mitsu didn’t update the coupe and stuff it with Evo guts instead of only offering a sedan, Ill never know. Ditto Subaru WRX/STI and Neon SRT-4. The number of older coupe variants with swaps means Im not alone.
2 door coupes don’t sell as well as the old days*, and not cost effective, so have to base some performace cars on 4 doors. Only luxo makes with their high sticker prices can offer coupe versions of sedans, such as BMW 3 series.
*Only if ‘sport’ models like Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, Vette…
Well General Motors Iran/Pars Khodro which built and sold our CKD 1979 Chevrolet Nova at least through 1992 and it was the last RWD X-Body built over there as shown on the photo here. So from the time North America built the first RWD 1975 Chevrolet Nova during the Fall of 1974 through the final parts of 1992 in Iran, the 4th Generation Nova really had a long 18 year history of completely building the same car based on the 1979 grille as the U.S. and Canada without any major changes at all.
Meet the Peugeot “Bush Taxi” 504. Introduced in 1968. The last one was built in 2006, in Nigeria, while its Euro-production ended in 1983.
GM will be building the last generation Cruze alongside the new one. I’d prefer the older model as I’ve always liked the styling.
My brother bought a 2014 Impala Limited. Nothing wrong with it: quiet, smooth, roomy, neatly assembled. It will give him many years of use. It’s not the show boat the new Impala is, but it’s not lacking in amenities or comfort.
I have a 1999 base model Chevy Prizm with 220,000 miles on the clock sitting out on the street in front of the house. It has been an extremely reliable and economical car.
I would buy a brand new version of this car without hesitation. I’m sad that I can’t.
In some circumstances I’d choose the previous generation vehicle over the newer one. Sometimes the last of the old technology is better then the first of the new technology. It’s the same thinking that says not to buy a car that’s the first year of a new design.
Look at the Valiant/Dart versus the Volare/Aspen. If I’m not mistaken, they even overlapped production of the A-body Valiant/Dart and F-body Volare/Aspen by one year, so you really could choose old or new at the time. Chrysler finally fixed the major F-body problems by the time they morphed into the M-bodies (Diplomat, 5th Ave, etc).
In the 1964 Pontiac article which re-ran today, there was discussion about the consumer reports writers recommending certain Pontiac models which received the older automatic transmission instead of the new roto-hydramatic which was unreliable.
I would take a 1994-98 Cummins 12-valve over a 1998.5-02 24-valve engine. Sure the 24-valve had more power right from the factory and you could hot-rod it from the driver’s seat with ECU software tuning, but the VP44 injection pump in the newer trucks didn’t last, and they tended to have problems with the emissions systems. Of course there’s no way you could’ve known that if you were shopping for a new truck in 1998, when the 24-valve first came out.
Speaking of overlapping model production in which the new model is supposed to replace an older model, remember in 1982 when the FWD X-Bodied Citation based new FWD A-Body Chevrolet Celebrity came into the scene to supposedly replaced the RWD A then later becoming G-Body Malibu which were still based from the 1978 design were not discontinued immediately. In fact the RWD Malibu carried on through 1983 and then discontinued for the 1984 model year and finally replaced by the FWD Celebrity. I believed GM was uncomfortable in replacing the RWD Malibu immediately with an all NEW model which was the Celebrity and Chevrolet people believed that they have learned their lessons after in haste replacing the Nova and its RWD Divisional X-Bodied Cousins short of the full 1979 model year with the unproven FWD X-Bodied Chevrolet Citation along with its FWD Divisional X-Bodied Cousins as well. In this case, GM could have waited until 1980 and continued producing the proven RWD X-Bodies until the Summer of that year and replaced them with the newly proven FWD X-Bodied in the Fall of 1980 as a 1981 NEW but improved and competitive model instead. In Iran as a matter of fact, our 1976-78 Nova continued on and their 1981 Novas had the 1976-78 grille as shown on this photo. While Iran that time continuously had the reliable and dependable Nova in production, their replacements here in America aka the Citation et al were still receiving recall notices as defects were surfacing as each day progresses. Citation owners had already became dismayed by then.
The 4 door G bodied Bonneville, Cutlass and Regal lasted beyond 1983, at least. So while Chevy didnt have one, buyer could still get another GM brand.
The very last one was 1987 Cutlass Supreme sedan. Bonne ended in ’86, don’t know exactly when last Regal sedan was.
In the mid-nineties there was this, out of the blue. The Daewoo Nexia, based on the Opel Kadett E. Cheap ! Well certainly, but as the wise buyer soon found out, its depreciation was terrifying. And it turned out not to be so cheap anymore…
The collective opinion: just buy a young C-segment Opel-Volkswagen-Ford-Peugeot-Renault-Fiat-Citroën-Toyota-Mazda-Whatever for the same -or less- money.
The only -very successful- budget brand we’ve got now is Dacia. And to a lesser extent Skoda. Meanwhile Daewoo (later rebranded as Chevrolet, not welcome at US car shows, naturally) has gone up in smoke.
We had that one has a Pontiac Lemans. I had admired the Kadett on a German trip in 85 and was excited when it came to USA a few years later. I even liked the Pontiac styling touches. From all reports it was a good Kadett, but Daewoo was not able to make the translation in their low skill, low cost world of 87. How much is this still the case when main stream big name models are procured from the third world to pinch that penny.
The good ol’ Opel Kadett E, the last Kadett model. Available as a hatchback, sedan, wagon, panel van (Opel Kadett Combo) and convertible.
Of course us young guys wanted the 150 hp 2.0 liter GSi 16v. Opel’s answer to the Volkswagen Golf GTI. And other contemporary C-segment hot hatches.
There was a White GSi on display at Frankfurt airport, and between it and repeatedly walking past something called “Dr. Mueller’s sex shop” my 16 year old self was well occupied on the long weight for our flight.
A quick GIS learned that Herr Dr. Müller is still in business.
This is how it looked under its hood. Most C-segment hot hatches still have a 4-cylinder 2.0 liter 16v engine these days, plus a turbocharger.
We had a 2.0 GSE with only 95hp though. Same engine as our Sunbird, but sourced from Australia. There was a 165hp turbo version of the 2.0, but not for Lemans.
And 10 years ago there was this JMC-Landwind SUV from China, derived from the 1998-2004 Isuzu Rodeo. It became “famous” due to its horrible crash test results; it was a coffin on wheels. Another goodbye.
In a case like that does Isuzu sue the importers or just turn away because it is too depressing to be reminded.
To answer your question, absolutely, provided the new version hasn’t been watered down (as is usually the case).
I would love myself a Saab 9-5 wagon, with a modern powertrain.
Old cars frequently find a new life the 3rd world or in China, even within mainstream OEMs.
This for example, is a car worthy of buying, despite being “old”. A tweak or 2 to the 5 banger will likely wake it up and a different exhaust will reveal its characterful note.
http://www.volvocars.com/zh-cn/cars/new-models/xc-classic
In Brazil… pretty common (sadly Marcelo is not here to enlighten us)
Corsa B: http://www.chevrolet.com.br/carros/classic.html
Palio: http://www.fiat.com.br/carros/novo-palio-fire.html
And then, of course… couldn’t miss it: http://www.nissan.com.mx/tsuru/
“The Mexican-built Sentra B13 (US 1991-94) is still sold in Mexico as well as parts of Asia, Africa, the Middle East, Central America and South America. It’s called the Nissan Tsuru in Mexico …” Wiki
I’d get one, but US safety regs wouldnt allow it. No, they don’t still build the SE-R version.