(Please enjoy this latest COAL submitted by Ben Settler, aka Sodbuster)
The magnificent beast you are looking at was purchased new by my great-grandfather in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada in the fall of 1960. My dad bought it from his estate in 1983, where it has sat for the last three decades. Another of my great-grandpa’s cars, a 1939 De Soto, is also in our possession. We rarely get rid of anything around here, as you may discover in possible subsequent posts.
I remember riding around on the gravel roads in this car when I was a kid, when we would get it running from time to time just to keep it sort of going. The column shift broke in the mid-90s, putting an end to that sort of fun. Dad would turn the motor over by hand once in a while since then, but other than that it’s just been a lawn ornament until last fall when my son and I hauled it over to my place and got it running as a surprise for Dad. Five generations of my family have cruised in this car, and we are slowly trying to bring it back to life.
This, as I discovered last fall when researching this thing, is actually a Plymouth dashboard, making this one of the famous (or infamous) Plodges. As most Canadian car folk can tell you, until the mid sixties, Canadian-built Dodges were often hybrids of Dodge and Plymouth.
For comparison, here is a shot of the dash of a US built 1961 Dart Seneca (courtesy of hemmings.com).
And here is a 1961 Plymouth Belvedere, albeit with a push-button automatic. Mashing the two together like this seems like a strange way to do things, but we’ll let bygones be bygones. The Dodge dash is certainly more outlandish; the wings make it a bit hard to look at in my opinion. I do enjoy the Plymouth speedometer with the little red bars that climb up for each 5 mph increment. I wonder how long it took to figure out how to make that work?
The entire car is about as basic as you can get, featuring a dome light for an amenity, and that’s about it. There is a radio delete panel, as well as a little white plastic plug blocking the hole where the cigarette lighter would go. The interior has certainly seen better days. A lack of indoor storage means all our classics end up left outside.
The rubber floor mat has all but disintegrated (along with the front floor pans, unfortunately)–too many years of sitting outside in the Canadian weather. There is hope for the door panels yet, and I’m hopeful that the front seat could be repaired. Notice the extension on the arm of the rear view mirror. Apparently Grandpa Hardy added it to make the mirror easier to see. I had to remove it because it created a terrible blind spot for the driver (I guess it worked for him, though).
The back seat is in reasonable shape, thanks to patchwork seat covers made by great grandpa. The matching ones on the front seat had totally disintegrated over the last forty or fifty years, thus the damaged front seat. The headliner was totally destroyed, but we saved the bows so we can get it replaced.
There seems to be a special kind of hate reserved for Exner-era Mopars, particularly these ’61 Dodges, which I’ve never really understood. Certainly they are unusual, but I’ve always had a fondness for them, although growing up looking at this one sitting on the lawn probably biased me in its favour. I guess this tail light arrangement is what you would call “form over function.” I have seen some with other taillight arrangements, which I believe were a mid-year addition when other drivers complained about not being able to see these ones.
This fine example, being the base model Seneca, lacks even back-up lamps. The plugs for them are there in the rear wiring harness, but that’s as far as it goes.
Here’s a picture from an original 1961 sales brochure that Dad found on Ebay. This dapper gentleman and his lady friend certainly seem to be enjoying their base model Seneca, as does their dog. You don’t see too many pictures in car ads these days featuring middle aged men wearing a jacket and tie.
Ye olde slant six. When we dragged the car out of the weeds last fall, I was afraid that even getting it running would be a major problem. To my great amazement, we poured some gas in the carb and it fired right up, forty-plus year-old ignition system and all. Note farmer fix for fuel supply hanging from the passenger side hood hinge. The fuel tank was so gummed up with old gas we couldn’t even blow air into the tank from the fuel line. Since these pictures were taken, I have dropped and cleaned the gas tank and replaced the tank screen. The tank was in surprisingly good condition, and now works just fine, fuel gauge included.
To the best of our knowledge, the engine is as it was assembled in 1960. We have done an ignition system tune-up, and dealt with a leaky master cylinder, stuck wheel cylinder, rusted out exhaust and rusted accelerator pedal hinge. The engine starts and runs quite well, needing a prime only if it has been sitting for several days. I’ve noticed a worrying delay in the oil light going out when I start it, not to mention some lifter chatter before the pressure comes up. I guess parts are easy enough to find, but I definitely don’t want to go tearing into the engine.
This picture shows it sitting on the ’70s vintage bias-ply tires that were on it. The left front one was so rotten that I had to air it up then sprint over to take the picture before it keeled over like a wounded duck. Needless to say, not much good for going any farther than the end of the driveway. Since then I bought a mismatched set of fourteen-inch tires for $80 from a guy I found on Kijiji, but made a miscalculation when converting from the old bias size to P metric. We now have something of a lowrider, which I think only improves the look.
One nagging question: do we repaint or leave as is with the original “patina”? I’m starting to think that the original paint is too far gone, especially with the body rot around the wheel wells, but as they say, it’s only original once… Perhaps I will solicit some opinions from the Curbside Classic community. For comparison, here is a nearly identical car in the correct color.
Thoughts anyone? I’ll try to do an update later. Thanks for reading!
I think the instrument panel looks like Jar Jar Binks.
“Take me to your leader”
Very much in Jetsons mode. I’ll take a Brit sports-car dash instead, these are timeless. And easier to repair, too: once I was able to remove & disassemble a malfunctioning Smiths speedo. It was just a loose screw. Piece of cake; primitive technology has its virtues.
Love it, and had the same issue when I inherited my grandfather’s ’66 Impala. “Do I paint it or leave it?”
I would try to leave as much original as possible, but it is going to need a paintjob of some sort. Rust never sleeps, and leaving the patina like that, although awesome, will destroy the car. Give it a decent (close to factory color, in my opinion) paint job.
Good luck
Hey hey, my my. Rusty Mopars never die.
It looks like you want to drive he vehicle. In that case I think it should be painted.
If the intend were to trailer it to car shows I would prefer it as is. Just past Sunday I saw an almost 100 year old Buick in original shape. It received a coat of oil in order to stop the rust. I can’t imagine driving it because the oil is likely to attract dust.
I do like these low line cars and this being a 2 door sedan is a bonus of sorts. I am also intrigued by these Canadian market cars that are a “mix and re-match” of their U.S. market “sisters”. Many years ago I saw a similar vintage car on E-bay that had a Plymouth front clip married to a Dodge body. I don’t remember what the dashboard looked like. Seems like a Plymouth dash in a Dodge is a bit of a wasted effort?
Finally, with what looks like a VERY long trunk/rear fender section….would this be the 1st attempt at a “cab forward” body style? Predating the LH cars by 40 years?
The Canadian fullsize Dodges had plymouth dashboards right up to 1966.
The ’61 Dodge with a Plymouth front clip was somebody’s home-brew, made possible because all the mounting points AND the bodylines all happen to line-up. I really like the look though. One of them even made it into print, with the owner claiming it was factory. Here it is.
http://www.moparts.org/moparts/picture/oldweb/Garlick.html
That one’s too far gone. Definitely paint. This is going to be one of those long term projects, done for family love; because what it’ll take to put the car back into really good condition will be more than you’ll ever be able to sell it for.
Given the family history, though, cost is never an object. Just space the bills out as you can raise the cash.
And I’ve always liked these. Probably because they’re so strange looking.
Congrats on rescuing your family heirloom, and thanks for sharing it with us! The body looks to be in pretty good condition aside from the surface rust. I would vote for repainting it, since I’m not a fan of “patina” or the “rat rod” look. Once you have the rust and bodywork addressed, I recommend getting it epoxy primered.
I put aftermarket oil pressure, temp and voltmeter on my old cars to keep better tabs on them than just the idiot lights. Your slant six may need a new oil pump. The /6 oil pump is external to the engine, mounted on the side of the block, so you don’t have to drop the oil pan or anything to get at it. I’m curious why the lifter clatter is reduced when the oil pressure comes up. These had mechanical lifters, not hydraulic, so they don’t bleed-down.
Thanks for the info. This is the first slant six I’ve worked on so I don’t really know much about them. I should probably at least put a temporary oil pressure guage on to see what’s going on. As for the rattle, I’m not sure. My first thought was lifters, but I sure could be wrong. Should probably start by setting the lifters anyway.
You may want to drop the oil pan and clean the sump and pickup. There’s probably a half inch of sludge in there, which is probably why it takes a minute to build up oil pressure. You’ll want to set the valves hot with a wrench and some feeler gauges, engine running. .010 for the intakes, .020 for exhausts…I set mine up a touch loose just to be safe. A .002 larger feeler gauge just barely fits.
The sludge in the pan is a common issue in slant sixes if they aren’t run much. These engines were the most abused contrivances I have ever seen. Many came in running terribly, having never had a valve adjustment or an occasional oil change even. A complete tune up was a quick remedy and we often did engine flushes on Valiants as many had crazy amounts of crud on the top end and the bottom ends were even worse. Still, nothing could take abuse like a slant six. I loved the low end torque of the 225 and the endearing rattle of the heat riser valve.
Could you give us an update on this car ? These are very rare in the states. Thank you.
The 1st idea of mine as I saw this Seneca was: To leave it in original patina. Just the essential repaires has to be done in order of reliable drivability… On the other hand…I think this car deserves a total refurbishment as more as possible bringin’ it back to the factory condition! No tuning please! Through the times only less of them shall stay among us… Excellent article!
This is a terrific article!
Given your storage conditions, it needs to be painted. This is an amazing old car and it’s good to see you are taking steps to preserve it.
This is a beautiful piece of history….try to preserve it- a slant six with a three on the tree’ is the epitome of the early sixties. The dashboard is definitely something out of ‘Star Trek’….so ahead of its time back then. Awesome !!
Can’t say I was ever a fan of the looks of the 61 Dodge Dart, but after all these years, I am now. Back about 1980, the local Chry-Ply dealer had a silver 61 Plymouth sedan on its lot and I took it for a test drive. I remember that dash – so odd. That car was a slant six as well, but with the pushbutton auto. I passed on it – I still owned my V8 59 Fury at the time, and the 61 with the six did not seem like an upgrade.
I would vote for paint as well.The body is in really good shape and it would be a shame for degraded paint to let a bad surface rust get hold. Can’t say this is one of my favorite colors, but maybe a fresh shiny version would be better. An enjoyable tour. I hope to hear about more of your heirlooms.
“To paint or not to paint” would be a dilemma for a car with enough original paint still on it. Which is not the case here. This car’s paint is too far gone to leave as is.
I own a ’79 Chevy that proudly wears its original paint, despite major fading and other imperfections. A new coat would make it look much nicer. That would never happen on my watch – but only as long as the original paint still manages its purpose of protecting the metal underneath. If it ever deteriorates too far to simply call “patina”, a tasteful repaint in the original color is in order.
While all-original “survivor” cars are currently more trendy than over-restored trailer queens of the recent past, common sense should prevail over whichever way the position of this pendulum of opinion is currently in.
I love that car. It is odd and homely, but so interesting and, most importantly, it has family history. Very cool. I disagree that there is any urgency to refinish the outside if it has survived so well up to this point. The originality makes it a lot more interesting and it certainly isn’t rusting very quickly. I would redo the front seat and headliner and find a decent rubber floor mat and then drive it!
I saw his cousin last year at an NHRA Nostalgia show. I like the Googie styling on these ’61 Mopars but then again I love the ’62’s. Yours would make a great hot rod but i would keep the patina and redo the interior and mechanicals.
and this is what he was packing. Original cross ram.
Perfect example of ‘beauty on the inside’. Even as a rabid Mopar fan, the ’61 Fury is horrible looking to my eye. It reminds me of the ‘brain bug’ from Starship Troopers. But oh that cross-ram!
Take some more pictures and paint it up right.
Im so glad youre leaving it stock, I guarantee you this is one of only a handful left that havent been cut up or hot rodded. Id repaint it. Definetly would be a huge attention grabber at a show
Thanks for all the positive comments. I really enjoyed writing this and hope to do more. Not sure what will end up happening with the paint yet, we’ll see if we have time this winter. Since Dad owns the local bodyshop, we have some options. And I can pretty much guarantee that it won’t be hot rodded. I’m all about keeping things as close to stock as possible.
Love you car; I’m jealous. Glad to hear it’s going to be kept original.
Thank you.
That is actually one clean car. I know the floorpans need replacing, but that’s easy. The important thing is that all of those heavily creased Exner body panels are for the most part unholed. Welding underbody is easy, as long as the suspension mounts are fine as you don’t really don’t need to worry about matching curves.
These ’60-62 Mopars rusted like you wouldn’t believe in the salt belt, and even ‘nice ones’ down in Missouri have holes in all sorts of places, often ladeled in with bodyfiller.
Mechanically, drive it as it is- the oil pressure might improve after a couple engine flushes clear up the oilways. If the bearings or rings are bad from sitting, just get a later slant six to put in. Really, few people would notice the difference, and because everybody is fitting v8s to Darts and Dusters, there are plenty of very good engines around. After all, fitting a good second hand engine is probably what your grandfather would have done, and certainly would be in keeping with the car.
+1 for getting it repainted though in as close to original color as possible.
I also seem to remember that it was a ’61 Dodge or Plodge that ChickenLady drove to see the farm where she was hatched in Kids in the Hall.
patina for the win. because of its historical significance in the family i would suggest a modest shelter to keep it out of the direct elements. some, like temp, cannot be avoided. i noticed the radiator has a -45 written on it. i can only assume that it means at one time the radiator fluid was mixed to provide protection to -45. i feel your pain from south of you in northern minnesota.
Congrats on bringing the old beast back to life. About those tailights…I’ve only ever seen those upper mid year add on lights on Dodges in the USA…don’t think I’ve ever seen them in Canada
I guess there’s just no way you can find to keep it out of the weather. Money is tight for me as well. So I will go with others by suggesting a repaint in the original color.
In the early ’60s, my grandparent’s next door neighbors had one of these in white. I thought it unusual at the time, but I never disliked the car. Now, I could admire this car all day long; I really like it. People drove cars like this, not hot rods and muscle cars. Even my grandparents drove a ’60 Rambler Classic, so this Dodge was quite the norm.
Good luck with your family treasure.
Good luck with your restoration,there was a 2 tone blue 61 Dart at a few UK shows in 2000/1.The radiator reminds me of our Mk3 Ford Zephyr 6.
“This dapper gentleman and his lady friend certainly seem to be enjoying their base model Seneca, as does their dog. You don’t see too many pictures in car ads these days featuring middle aged men wearing a jacket and tie.”
Or cars floating in a psychedelic forests!
Ha! Good point. The crazy colors went right by me. Also the floating. The whole brochure is done in that style, it’s pretty bizarre.
Well the Seneca is a bit psychedelic itself 🙂 The front 2/3rds are somewhat within the bounds of normalcy/sanity, but its rear end is truly bonkers.
The Seneca looks like it has a DNA mixture of a bat and a car 🙂
What a great car, I can’t decide if it’s functionally handsome or gloriously ugly, but it’s a winner none the less.
We Canadians loved our base model cars in the 50’s and 60’s, yours is equipped just like my Dad’s 57 Plymouth Plaza except the mighty slant six hadn’t been invented yet so it had the flathead.
I vote for paint, and applaud your intent to not rod it.
Would love to see an article on the 39 Desoto. My Uncle had one when I was a kid in the 70’s, a few years ago I talked to the current owner who still had it put away unrestored.
Well, it’s in much better shape then the ‘Tulsa Plymouth’!
…having been stored under much drier conditions.
Nice car Ive never seen one with a 6 I’m not even sure a 6 was available out here the slant motor first appeared in Valiants, any US/Canada sourced cars had V8 motors that was the attraction and they got well trimmed to justify the enormous sticker price, I’d fix the rust and leave the paint alone its only original once,
Great car, thanks for sharing! I vote fix the rust, paint it as close as possible, redo the seats and carpet as close to original as possible, and enjoy. Take it to as many shows and cruise ins as possible to expose the young fellas to what they didn’t know they are missing.
It’s held up really well for being outside all those years. Like others have mentioned, you might want to paint and just upholster seats and replace floor plates, windshield and mat or carpet. If you feel ambitious, maybe redo headliner. And a few little things like exterior mirror, of course tires, maybe fix back bumper. If you have the room, some kind of a low dollar frame and covering set up after you are done should preserve the car and patina for years to come. As base as it is, that will be a real advantage toward only needing minimal repairs. I wonder if the ticking until oil pressure builds is just the tappets hitting dry valve stem tips until they get a coating of oil on them. It deserves to be taken care of just like the rest of the family. I really like the dashboard. Not only does the driver look at it, the dashboard looks at the driver! Nice story.
I have a love/ hate relationship with this car. I have the same relationship with the Edsel also.
I’ve never seen the dash panel on one of these, but somebody was dropping LSD to come up with that! Who would of thunk they were getting weird over in Highland Park?
I would tear it down and fix the rust and then repaint in the original color. It would serve two things.
1. It allows you to bond with your son while doing the work
2. It is your great grand dad’s car and has been in the family for over 50 years. It deserves a restoring. This is not some resto project from Craigslist in which you are leaning towards making it a trailer queen. This is your family’s history and a direct link to your great grandfather.
Good luck
When I was about 4 years old my uncle owned a Dodge dealership. At some point my Dad bought a new Dodge from him. Later the car went in for warranty work and he was given one of these as a loaner. I remember thinking the car looked odd, even ugly, compared to cars I was used to. After reading this article and seeing the photos of the dash I don’t think I have given this car a chance up to this point. I have a new found appreciation for them now.
you know the rat rod people sometimes even artificially produce patina like that. I think they preserve it with some kind of flat clear coat.
That idea has been tossed around actually. Might be the best of both worlds. It could always be re-painted later if we get tired of looking at it.
I’d go with plastidip either in the matte clear or half matte half gloss for a satin look. I’d do a good pressure wash to get any gunk out of the crevices and in the trim areas. Then make sure it has fully dried before spraying it.
Another option is to give it a phosphoric acid or other rust remover bath, spray it with self etching primer and then shoot it with your choice of color plastidip. The have tons of ready to spray colors and now they have metallic, and pearls. You could go for the black or gun metal grey for that classic primer look and don’t peel the trim or just mask/peel some selected pieces. I think this would also look good in the vintage gold or for a little more custom look the pure purple or intense teal. https://www.dipyourcar.com/colors.html
Either way you can peel a panel to do repairs and then respray that panel. Both ways will slow down/halt the rust from growing while you sort out the rest of the vehicle. The key to keeping a project like this going is to keep it going. If you can fire it up and drive it around periodically Your enthusiasm will stay higher, you’ll get to enjoy it, and you actually probably get it farther sooner than if you go through the full tear down and paint now. Get it so you can take it on ice cream runs or to a local show/run. Then pick manageable projects, compete it enjoy and repeat.
I was gonna suggest a flat clear. Like you said, only original once, and the patina looks good. Of course, clean up any actual rot since that’ll turn the car into dust if unchecked. Do yourself a favor though: a mild, tasteful lowering job and some nice wheels (chrome smoothies, or rocket spokes) will make your car stand out as a rat rod vs a decrepit old car. It has potential for sure!
Enjoyed your story and look forward to more. Reminds me of the 60 Savoy my Dad had when I was 6 years old. It was 4dr. with a slant 6 and a pushbutton automatic. The brown is definitely better than the light mint color his was. I would paint and restore as much as possible to original.
I always liked the Mopars of this vintage – when I was a kid in the late ’60’s someone up the street had a Seneca wagon. Considering its age and the fact that it’s been outside in our fine Canadian winters all this time it’s not in bad shape. The engine firing right up is a good omen. Clean up the interior, give it a decent paint job and make sure the brakes and steering are up to scratch. You’ll have a great summer cruiser and you’ll be able to keep those memories alive. I’ll look forward to seeing some in-progress pictures.
Thanks for sharing this story. If I were you given this car was owned by your grandfather and like you said, 5 generations of your family have been serviced by this vehicle, I would restore it to original specs and keep it forever. Passing it down to the next generation would be awesome.
And that’s why I like the infamous /6. Is there a more un-killable engine out there?
Cool car and great family history behind this…you HAVE to preserve it!
I like the paint the way it is. I would paint it only if you think the metal is deteriorating like on that ’50 Cadillac Coupe in wet Eugene, the CC Feature Car.
I totally “get” not throwing out family heirlooms and appreciated the story of your car very much. I did not know anything about the Canadian Plodges.
That dash is really, really weird. I’ve often wondered where George Lucas got the inspiration for his more bizarre characters. At a subliminal level at least, one had to come from your Dodge dash.
I’d definitely fix the bodywork and paint it. The pic you showed of another one in that colour just looks so good.
Did anyone else notice that the starter looks Ike it’s pre Hamtramck Hummingbird?
I vote for the reprint. The example picture in the copper hue looked pretty sweet. (And was pretty common for the period.) if great grandpa were still with us, I think that’s the way his dear Plodge would look in his mind’s eye.
Yeah, for a wacky ’61 Mopar, I’d take the Plymouth. It’s just all around cooler, from the zany front end to the actually not too bad flat, finless rear. You really have to wonder what might have been if the ’62 would have just been a cleaned up ’61 instead of the downsized monstrosities.
Very nice ! .
I had a ’61 Phoenix 2 Dr for a very short time .
I hope you clean this up and attend to the rust , Grand father’s Car , so cool .
-Nate
What a really cool car. I know Saskatchewan well, and there is a lot of space for old cars, so they kind of get “thrown in the bush,” where most are eventually overtaken by nature. What is really amazing is that this car survived at all. The Prairies are an incredibly harsh environment and there were gravel roads everywhere. Heck, there are still plenty of gravel roads. The Forward Look cars were notorious rust buckets even in the later years like this example. Some one must have spent a lot of time cleaning up the undercarriage in the winter time. There were dirt traps all over these old cars and that is were the serious corrosion came from.
I’m from Saskatoon originally. What part of the province are you in?
If you get any interior work done, please allow me to put in a plug for my old summer employer in university, Braithwaites Upholstery in Saskatoon. They may not be the cheapest, but they are the best. Tell them Roger sent you.
I vaguely remember that Patrick Dodge was at the north end of 3rd Avenue, then they moved to 8th Street in about 1969, where they stubbornly remain today, even after all the other stores have moved to the new Stonebridge area, south of Circle drive.
We are south of Saskatoon. Don’t worry, we’re very familiar with Braithwaites. I’ve already talked to them briefly about the interior for this one.
One more question-Back in the mid 70s, in my CB days, there was a user by the handle of Sodbuster down by Dundurn, and it was always bragging rights if we in city could reach down there. It wouldn’t be you, would it?
No, off by a couple decades. I was born in 79.
That is a cool car with a great family history, thanks for sharing.
If it were mine, I would leave the original paint and patina and just get a set of cool period-correct aftermarket wheels like Torque Thrusts or Cragars with a good set of new tires and cruise it as-is.
It also looks great restored too. That’s such a rare and cool-looking car that either way, its a winner
What a fantastic old car, and even more so, piece of family history. Great grandfather’s…wow. I know how you feel though, as I’ve also become the caretaker of a car that belonged to my grandfather, though it’s not quite so old and its route to the present has been a little different. COAL coming on that one at some point. But it’s fantastic that you have it now and that future generations will be able to have that connection with the past and with a family member who passed away long ago.
As to the paint question–there’s something to be said for leaving as-is. It’s true that it’s only original once, and that’s some very enviable patina. (Is that passenger front fender newer than the rest of the car? Its paint is in better shape than any other panel…) But I think in this case I’d favor a proper respray in the original color as part of the restoration. Until such time as funds become necessary, though, you could attend to any rot-through and then hit the rest with some clear, to let the originality show during the “work in progress” stage.
Thanks so much for sharing your story and keep us updated!
Count me in the camp of fans of the ’61 Dodges. I’ve always loved the lines, feel and look of these. It seems like ages since I saw one on the street. This is getting to be a rare specimen. Do what you can to keep it running, and happy motoriing in this classic.
Fantastic car and great article. I’m with others here who have suggested a clear coat over the original paint. That’s part of it’s charm and part of it’s story. Thanks for not intending to “rod” this vehicle. It always seems to be the default action with cars like this.
A project like that takes a lot of patience and dedication, Nicely Done!
Just noticed that model in a 1960 Leave it to Beaver…
The episode when Wally was afraid to be seen with his ‘date’ driving,
‘The Chauffeur’.