Longtime CC Commenter splateagle’s avatar is his former 1998 Fiat 20V Coupe Turbo, named “Hobbes”. Apparently it was totaled in an accident, as he’s posted shots of a similar yellow coupe at the Cohort. But he also put this one up of “Hobbes”, shot back in 2008 on an outing to the Scottish Highlands. These coupes were obviously both prescient and a bit polarizing when they arrived back in 1993, and are the work of Chris Bangle, before he moved to BMW. His first car, actually, as Chief Designer. Perhaps not everyone’s cup of Typhoo tea, but it certainly stands out, especially in that yellow.
Splateagle shot this virtually identical car in Leith, near Edinburgh, this one showing of the Fiat’s distinctive tail, the first “Bangle butt”.
This car was parked awkwardly, so it was hard for him to get a proper shot of its front end. One of the comments left at the Cohort was that this car reminded him of a Pontiac Sunfire. Good call.
The 20V Turbo was the most powerful version, with 223 hp from its 1995 cc in-line five cylinder, with a top speed of 150 mph (255 kmh). No wonder splateagle misses Hobbs.
I love this pic he posted about the engine in his two Fiats. The image on the right was his 20v.
CC effect strikes again,saw a nice blue one outside a nail bar this afternoon.
outside a nail bar
nah, that’d be a 16V 😉
You’re right! I checked it out properly today,still a nice looking car
Ha! awesome – it was a running gag in the forums on the owners club site with 20V and especially 20VT owners teasing 16V owners they had “hairdressers cars”, so when you said nail bar I couldn’t resist but I’m tickled it actually was a 16V!
They’re not “hairdressers cars” of course, they’ve got great little engines (derived from the Lancia Stratos rally cars iirc) and are far less… demanding to own I gather. They’re just not the hairy chested beasts that the Turbos, (particularly the 20VT) are.
Stratos was powered by Ferrari’s Dino engine. A quick check reveals the 16V was derived from the Delta Integrale, which itself is a nice engine.
Thanks for the correction Don – I’ve no idea why I wrote Stratos, I was picturing the Delta Integrale. I blame the Stratos’ inherent allure and a lapse of concentration 😉
There were various “Coupe Integrale” projects on the UK owners’ club forum iirc – taking the drivetrain from a Delta (or Dedra) Integrale and putting it in a Coupe. This one picks up part way through but still makes interesting reading:
http://www.fccuk.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=809176
full disclosure (as is evident from that being a white Coupe and mine being yellow) the engine shot is via Google, not actually Hobbes’
It’s identical except for the red cover which marks this as a 20VT Plus – Hobbes was an earlier 20VT – colours aside the engine looked exactly like this.
I thought these were pretty ugly (oxymoron alert!) when they were launched – someone in town here bought a red one in 1995, I saw it most days for the next 5-6 years and wondered how they could bear to open the garage door to it. Yet now, 20 years later, I’ve grown to really like the styling – it’s distinctive, unique and timeless. In fact, I think you could launch it today without changing a thing and most folks would assume it was a brand new design. There are still a few of these on Kiwi roads, it’s always a pleasure seeing them around.
We never had these as Fiat had no USA presence at the time. I was always kind of jealous…yeah, the proportions are odd from some angles, but overall a very distinctive and (mostly) good-looking car. Sounds like they were pretty good performers too.
When this and the Alfa coupe came out almost simultaneously, it was a shot in the arm for the Fiat group. It falls into the Fiat tradition of a quirky little coupe, just like the 850 and earlier 103TV. Surely there would be another one out there sitting near the bottom of the depreciation curve for Splateagle.
Last time I looked a decent one was about £4000 which is – you’re right – dirt cheap. Sadly it’s still out of my reach (long story short I was laid off three years ago and am in the process of building up my own business).
Owning and running a car (any car) in a city in the UK is horrendously expensive… but all the same as soon as funds permit I’m ‘avin’ another! I just hope I can squirrel away enough before they start rising in cost too much/before all the good ones are ruined by boy racers.
Good luck with your business. I wasn’t such a fan if this car when it was released, but I’ve warmed to it. Unlike most of Bangle’s creations, the rear three quarter angle looks great.
If you want a sense of his great work, look up his version of the BMW M1. If you want to see a car made of fabric, look at his BMW Gina. Not a great piece of work, but one of the most interesting cars of the recent past.
I would describe a first generation Fiero as more original and taut looking than this Fiat. Take away the somewhat gimmicky diagonal ‘slices’ and the bodywork is almost pudgy. Especially, in the flanks. The sharp creases help conceal this. IMO, a concurrent Pontiac Sunfire looks leaner. The ‘slices’ don’t appear integrated in the design. But as ‘add-ons’, hoping to aid the looks of an otherwise fairly non-descript coupe. The slab sides and low door sills, do remind me of the Saturn coupe.
Perhaps I’m being a bit harsh, as it is challenging to design an original and stylish small car. But as designers, I think they mailed in the styling on this one. Take away those ‘slices’, and it’s fairly generic looking.
If it was well styled, without needing the fender slices to create distinction, I would be complimenting it.
you mostly saw these waiting for tow trucks
Hogwash.
Hobbes was on a tow truck exactly once in the entire time I had him and that was when I sold him – see below.
While there’s no denying it’s a thoroughbred engine with the attendant complexities and potential issues. Mine never let me down, or left me stranded. Not once.
The side profile isn’t it’s best angle, and it’s definitely one of those cars that looked better in the metal than in most photos.
I’m (clearly) biased but I think the lines hang together really well, the attached is my favourite angle/shot of the car.
People may not like the design , but few can argue that it has aged. So many nice touches , like that rear wheel arch. If i remember correctly , there was a colour coded stripe across the interior ? Brilliant
Yep.
Thank you! One of my enduring regrets is having no decent pictures of the interior – it was such a great place to be.
Daniel M.: As a designer, I’ve always found a common reaction to unorthodox design elements among lay people is to call them “gimmicky”.
Actually I was reading a research piece just the other day about web design: They’d explored public reactions to various designs, asking the sample audience to rate which ones they thought were “beautiful”. Strong reactions – positive or negative – were mostly limited to the unorthodox designs, but surprisingly more familiar designs came out with averaged results closer to “beautiful” – it seems the masses like what they can understand. Who knew.
Back to the Coupe, and I’d disagree that the slices are in any way “gimmicks”. The front slices define the clamshell bonnet (hood), creating a strong visual flow right around the front of the car – a line which continues over the front bumper and into each of the doors. The back slices play off the upper curve of the rear wing/deck and frame muscular “haunches” over the rear wheels. Together the slices and their angle relative to the car give a suggestion of movement and speed when it’s standing still which is entirely appropriate to a sports car.
As I’ve mentioned in other comments I feel the car looks its best in the metal, there’s certainly no sense of pudginess when you’re standing next to one – though I can see your point in the side profile photo.
The slices may be the most obvious, least familiar feature of the design but they’re definitely not all there is to it – the recessed grille, the curve of the roof, the way the rear wings merge into the C pillar – all differentiate this car from its contemporaries and the details – the recessed rear lights, the polished aluminium filler cap, the concealed door handles, the wing mirrors – all work together to give it a really special feel… and that’s before you’ve got in.
Design is subjective, and you’re – of course – fully entitled to your personal view on this one, but trust me, as a design professional, and as an avid lover of this design especially – nothing about this car was “mailed in”.
I’ve been an illustrator and graphic designer for the past twenty years. And a web designer for the past ten, with some notable ad agencies. And do study design and car styling.
And I appreciate that we each have our own tastes.
In that case I’d be fascinated to swap objectively professional – and subjectively personal – opinions on the Coupe sometime, especially after you’ve spent some time with one in person.
My comments debunking your dismissal of the design as “gimmicky” however, stand.
My reaction the the designs of Bangle’s BMW’s was a word that rhymes with his name…. mangled. The dictionary definition follows:
mangle ˈmaNGgəl
verb
severely mutilate, disfigure, or damage by cutting, tearing, or crushing: the car was mangled almost beyond recognition.
This design is another example of his work. Doesn’t work for me.
Fortunately BMW has come back to their senses aesthetically, though I could do without the overkill on the electronics.
What is Mr. Bangle doing now?… not designing many automobiles, though I can say in the right circumstances, he is a good designer.
“What is Mr. Bangle doing now?… not designing many automobiles, though I can say in the right circumstances, he is a good designer.”
You are trying too hard to be nice.
I cannot believe that the Bayrische Motoren Werke Aktien Gesellschaft hired this man after this FIAT creation. That was some real bad corporate decision making.
Why the heck is everyone out to copy the BMW Bangle butt now? I don’t get it.
I am a designer by trade. We all have our strong points and weaknesses. Bangle’s design philosophy from my perspective does not not work with automobiles and unfortunately the powers to be at BMW did not see that or they sure got snowed by someone. Not all designers are 100% disasters nor are they 100% successful.
I know. I’ve got some bombs in my portfolio… fortunately they did not cost my clients $25,000+ apiece to build. Actually most of them never saw the light of day.
He and we discovered his Achilles heel at BMW and the whole world saw it. It’s apparent someone overlooked this “fiat” in his resume.
Not trying hard to be nice… just fair.
I appreciate your comment. Obviously it is much easier to sit here and play critic than to actually do design work in real time. And real time means thinking 5 or more years ahead.
My tone of voice was too harsh.
Nicely put there.
Like you say all design is subjective. Like you I’m also a designer by trade. I didn’t appreciate most of Bangle’s BMW work, the Z4 is OK, but nothing special. The rest – models like the 3 and 5 series – I always feel are rather overwrought compared to their predecessor models, but I could be reacting to a certain industry-wide bloat that was happening in car design during Bangle’s tenure at BMW. You as a designer will appreciate that we’re all constrained somewhat by practicalities.
I personally think the FIAT Coupe is among the most strikingly beautiful cars of the late C20th, and while it was definitely polarising when new, it was also generally well received and has aged remarkably gracefully compared to its contemporaries.
Leaving what he actually did at BMW aside for a moment, I suspect Bangle’s appointment to BMW was – in part – due to the visibility and daring of this design for FIAT.
Aesthetics may be subjective, but a forgettable product design is a failed product design. Whatever our subjective impressions of Bangle’s work they’re mostly memorable.
Well, I’m also a designer, but the vast majority of my work has been in the two dimensional realm.
There’s a train of thought that no one tries anything “different” in automotive design. But when someone does, it’s deemed ugly or ungainly.
I would posit that Mr. Bangle’s contributions have expanded the design vocabulary. I think that much of the contemporary Hyundai product is directly affected by Bangle’s BMWs. (Although cousin company Kia employs Franz von Holzhausen, who has come up with incredibly smooth designs on much the same chassis.)
With time, more of Bangle’s work has become acceptable or the norm. I think this early effort was a good one, disguising an otherwise chunky form with some sharp character lines. Like so many other things in life, you appreciate it or you don’t. Count me as one of the ones who appreciates it.
I’d love to have one of these over here in the States…
” One of the comments left at the Cohort was that this car reminded him of a Pontiac Sunfire. Good call.”
That would have been me.
I’ve always admired these cars from afar, and the last gen Sunfire was the closest you could get in this part of the world. The Fiat Coupes had a pretty cool set of specifications, I think they would have been a really competitive car here in the States. It’s too bad that Fiat didn’t have a real presence in the US and Canada back then.
What’s weird to me is that Geely Motors (from China) had a Coupe that had suspiciously similar styling clues as the last gen Pontiac J-body. But in that clumsy, knock off fashion, not like a really good clone of one.
Without the benefit of Sunfire coupes here, I always thought that Geely Coupe looked like a knock off of the ’96-’03 Renault Megane Coupe, which we did get (although the pics below are from the UK). Bottom left is the original ’96-’99 Megane; bottom right is the ’99-’03 facelift.
hmmm… I can see what you’re saying at the front, but overall that reminds me more of the (roughly contemporary) Vauxhall Calibra:
This is like one of those word games where Fork ends up morphing into Apple…
Megane, meet Grand Am…
They’re lovely cars.
A fresh design with all the right touches to the past, like the dash-in-body color.
Look at the stripes over the wings that suggest spppeeeeeeeed
The covered headlights and the four taillights that say ” Ferrarisssimo ”
Just love that individualism and CHARM in this design people, if you believe this is odd, there’s a world of Japanese, Korean and other middle of the road car manufacturers for you. But if you are like that, a Subaru will be even to daring for you. LOL
And it is AFFORDABLE
But as Dell boy (only fools & horses) would say “he who dares wins ! ”
I bet you this will be a classic in ten years, one of those ” if only I’d cars……………. “
I have mixed feelings about these stylistically. I like the tail and the taillights, but the headlights don’t quite work and something about its shape in profile feels off. I agree with Daniel that the design really leans very heavily on the fender slashes.
What I suspect is going on is that Bangle was stuck with the structural hardpoints of the TIPO2 (Fiat Punto) platform on which this was based, which made for somewhat awkward proportions for a coupe. The contemporary Alfa GTV, which was loosely related, also used confrontational detailing to disguise rather odd proportions, although I find that a much more attractive design. They’re in a similar mode, but I think the Alfa applies that aesthetic more successfully.
As I mentioned in an earlier comment, this is one of those cars that looks infinitely better in the metal than in photos.
There’s a nice piece at the UK owner’s club site about the genesis of the design, and why some of the more polarising choices were made:
http://www.fccuk.org/?navi=THE%20CAR&page=BIRTH
Thanks Paul!
Clarification: Hobbes was in an accident before I bought him, what we call a Cat-D insurance write-off here in the UK. Someone rear-ended him in the hands of a former owner, the insurance said it was uneconomical to repair, but still roadworthy. The repair was made and the car put back on the road which is where I came in
I mentioned it in the cohort since the rear view you featured of the car down in Leith has lovely shut lines, and dear old Hobbes’ boot had a very slight squint there. That was the only noticable holdover from the whole Cat-D thing.
Driving that car was genuinely the most fun I’ve ever had with my clothes on.
Hobbes and I parted ways partly because I hit hard times, but mostly because Hobbes needed a major engine overhaul to correct leaking oil seals (leading to lots of blue smoke when the turbo kicked in). I considered storing him with a friend until I had the cash to put that right, but keeping him off the road seemed wrong so I reluctantly parted company with the best car I’ve ever owned.
The buyer brought a trailer and that’s the last I saw… I hope he was put right and is back on the road, but it’s equally likely he was stripped down for parts. 🙁 He wasn’t totalled though, he was in great shape (oil seals notwithstanding) – as witnessed by the attached parting shot. One day I’ll save up and get another… one day.
Thanks for that, and your other comments. I jumped to a wrong conclusion there.
I’ve come to appreciate the design of this car more with time and perspective. And your comments about design are of course spot on. This is a worthy and ambitious undertaking, design-wise, even if it has some challenging aspects.
All the best, and I hope you find another worthy Coupe; Hobbes II.
Much obliged Paul! I was genuinely giddy to see the old brute on my CC front page this morning – thank you.
Having one again is a firm ambition. Frankly owning a car at all when you live in the middle of an historic European capital is madness – which is why I currently don’t – but I’m determined to be able to afford the folly again sometime in the not too distant. With all the Great Wee Roads of the Highlands on my doorstep I figure it’s rude not to.
Who knows in the meantime I might even get of my creative butt and contribute a finished write up on the model, as well as all the other Euro-specific stuff that’s sitting around the laptop in note form…
When you first look at it, it’s kind of a shock. But then, it seems to kinda grow on you…
In a very strange twist of the CC effect I was over on Facebook and photos popped up of one of the many alumni of the FIRST team I mentored that I keep up with that way. She is on a trip to Europe and in a picture of her walking down the street there are two of these parked next to each other in the same shade of red. Another CCish tie in she is getting her engineering degree from Kettering University, formerly known as GMI or General Motors Institute. In the next picture taken by the same person the subject person has a Chrysler shirt on complete with the Pentastar while his profile shows that he is a Product Development Co-op at General Motors.
The CC-effect strikes again! – I went into work this afternoon (Saturday) to do a couple hours extra, and found this ’01 Fiat Coupe parked behind our neighbouring business!
It was registered new here on January 31, 2001, and has 46,000km on the clock. It’s the 2.0 litre 20V turbo, with a 6-speed manual. 162kW (220HP) says the rego check I did on it. Don’t think I’ve seen one in blue before.
The sides on that thing are hideous. Otherwise it looks like an old Saturn to me, at least from the sides.
Fugly feminine looking car IMO but to each their own.
I remember seeing these when visiting Europe in early 2000s. They were eye catching and and dare I say it, cool.