I’m still trolling Craigslist every day looking for something to replace my stupid Ford Focus. It’s depressing. Anything I’m willing to pay for is terminally boring. How many Desert Sand Mica (beige) Toyota Corolla LEs with an automatic ARE there for sale at any one time, anyway? Here in Indianapolis, it’s got to be 20. Where are the manual transmissions? Or the sunroofs? Or the funky hatchback bodies? I want something, anything, that will help me feel like I’m not doing what I’m doing: buying a boring transportation appliance. Which this 1948 Plymouth most certainly was in its day. Time has a way of making formerly common things interesting.
The seller is asking $9,000 (see ad here), about what I want to pay for a modern transportation appliance. This Plymouth was probably a sturdy car in its day, but I’m sure it won’t approach the reliability of a modern Corolla. And reliability is the game I want to play above all. And even a $9,000 used Corolla rides a ton nicer than one of these. I know; I’ve ridden in one.
25 years ago, a work buddy of mine had a 1946 Plymouth with the same body, except it was – wait for it – beige. Of course. He drove it to work one chilly day and took a bunch of us to lunch. As you can imagine, I was excited for the opportunity. I sat right there, in that seat next to the door. I had never experienced such rear legroom before! That front seat had to be three feet away. And the seat was very cushy, like a sofa.
But then my buddy fired ‘er up and got ‘er going. The engine worked mighty hard for what little acceleration it got. Something inside the engine spun furiously, trying to push the car forward, but the car could only slowly build momentum to catch up with it. We turned out of the parking lot and the car wallowed hard, pitching me against my back-seat neighbor. And then the car bucked over a railroad track that my car at the time would barely notice. “Sorry – this thing handles like a marshmallow,” my buddy called out.
No regrets, no recriminations – that ride was one of my most favorite old-car experiences. Makes me want to call this owner and ask for a ride around the block. It might make me feel better about the boring Corollas that make up most of what’s available in my price range. But daggone it, my Focus has leather and a sunroof. And I put a new stereo in it with an iPod link. And it’s not bad to drive – good acceleration, snappy handling. Those things more than make up for it being otherwise so boring. I wonder what would have made for a less-boring basic car in this Plymouth’s prime used-car days.
Jim, I don’t envy your position, but I’m enjoying your search method! Maybe you should look for a British sports car next to get the handling and reliability you desire 🙂
When our Focus goes I will buy exactly the same thing: Two year old Focus with manual transmission.
$9,000 would buy a pretty nice retired cop car right? That would be anything but boring…
Jim, there’s a SAAB out there with your name on it!
9000 would buy you the NICEST retired cop car. you could get a really nice one for 5000.
That Plymouth is nice, pity about the incredibly cheap vinyl attempt to redo the seats. Cars of that era were a boring brown wool broadcloth. And yes, they used marshmallows for suspension.
I find it strange that I almost never hear people mention the factor of safety when car shopping. It tops the list for me followed by dependability and comfort.
another reason for a SAAB or Volvo
Beautiful. I’ll take it 4 doors and all. Being a 4 door, it will never be a high dollar collectors item, so I would upgrade the drivetrain, steering, suspension, and brakes to make it capable of being driven in today’s traffic, and leave the interior and exterior completely as is
I love these 1942-48 Chrysler products. When someone says “Forties car”, these are what come to my mind. My brother had a ’46 De Soto when I was very young, and that car had room enough to hold a society wedding in. I do believe that if I had the time, space and inclination to harbor an old car, a postwar Plymouth would be my choice.
Stop it already! You’re going to have me sleeping in this car when I bring it home! (c:
I always liked these cars. The seats like sofas were great, but the upholstery on this one looks like, well, cheap vinyl.
In my experience, dependability and old cars go together like oil and water. One could be okay if you like working on it–even when you don’t want to–or have $ for a mechanic. As a sole vehicle, only if one has another way to get to work, or anyplace else. (I met my wife getting a ride when my oddball car failed me, so that’s not all bad!)
The excess of blah-mobile Corollas and their ilk is a sad situation indeed. Nonetheless, one need not dwell in this part of the market but can look something both moderately interesting but still useful. What that is depends on you and your situation. My acquisitions over the last couple of years include a ’92 Corvette, 98 and 99 Civic coupes, an ex-government Lumina, and an ’02 Tacoma. My increasing interest in reliability is apparent (no 50s or 60s like days of yore), at least until my transportation needs are otherwise met. In the meantime I’m forcing myself to pass up clean Accords, LOL Buicks, and the last of the Crown Vics. Have at them, I sez.
Love it but as Syke says the current interior would have to go.
Were these fluid drive?
If you want an exciting Corolla, look for an XRS.
I have a Matrix XRS. Not as exciting as you might think
Wasn’t it 170 hp and manual trans only?
Has to be more exciting than my wife’s base Vibe.
Mine’s the rare automatic. Wrong transmission for that engine. I drove a base Vibe recently with the automatic and off-the-line acceleration was similar. The base Vibe just topped out sooner than my XRS.
Plymouth was the only one that did not have Fluid Drive, just a straight 3 speed stick. Dodge was the 3 speed stick with Fluid Drive added. Chrysler and DeSoto got both Fluid Drive (which was just a fluid coupling that allowed some slippage for smoothness/idling in gear with the clutch out) mated to one of several semi-automatic transmissions.
Plymouth’s only had the standard 3-speed until the 1954 models. At which point they got the two-speed automatic. I believe you had to go into a Dodge to get Fluid Drive.
Do you think in the year 2067 some future car lover will be swooning over the finer design features of those beige corollas?
Probably. But none of us should still be alive then, so we won’t have to retch over it.
No.
Keep in mind that the classic car snobs of the ’60s said exactly the same thing about the contemporary American cars for which collectors now pay absurd money.
I’ve always wondered, what was considered classic back then?
This Plymouth is about 66 years old. So in the 60s, they would have been looking at mainly horse drawn carriages still! Or the odd first cars that looked like carriages. Even cars from the 60s are ~50 years old so that’s still early Model T territory back then.
So I wonder, did they already appreciate cars from the 30s and thereabouts in the 1960s or were they still antiquated used cars?
Did people even buy cars from the 1930s and before as used cars?
The design languages are so different by the 1960s, that I feel like people wouldn’t have unless necessary.
Even some cars from the 50s probably looked out of place lol.
I’ve always been curious and your point, Ate Up With Motor, kinda touches on it.
There was some appreciation for the classics (20s-30s) and early cars (1896-1919) going way back, but it was not widespread. Some cognoscenti realized that there would never be cars built again like the top international makes in the 1930s, because of the Depression and WWII.
But prices in the late 40s and early 50s were in the toilet; one could pick up top-tier classics for very little money then, and some did. Interest in genuine classics picked up throughout the 1950s.
I’m talking mainly about the really exceptional cars, although certain cars like the Model A and T were always popular with certain folks. There were plenty of people fixing up/restoring Model As in the the late 50s and early 60s already.
But there were only so many old car aficionados back then, so a lot of fine cars just couldn’t be saved.
The car as a hobby really accelerated in the 50s, with all sorts of old cars being turned into hot rods and customs, and such. That was a form of old car appreciation, just not exactly as we might think of it now.
Yes, folks would pick up nicely kept old cars from the 30s and such, if they came across them. But it just wasn’t as widespread then.
There have always been folks who appreciated the cars from an earlier era. But now it’s become huge, and a big business too.
I would think that Plymouth would be more like a $5500 car at best. Try to talk him down! 🙂
I too drive a Focus stick daily, and it’s a nice car with good power, mileage, and handling, but I’d rather drive one of my old cars any day of the week. It says something about a guy when he’d rather be tooling around in a beat up Dart wagon than a new car.
I’m with you on the price. Especially with that bad vinyl job inside. I’m thinking more like $4500 as it sits. With a correct-ish interior, I would be at your number. Good thing the owner is delusional on the price, as one of these early postwar Mopars remains on my bucket list. I would prefer one of the bigger ones, but would happily settle for the right Plymouth.
A nice Chrysler sedan of the same vintage might be fun, wouldn’t it? 🙂
I don’t think there were any boring cars back in those days. I would have an absolute blast driving that compared to any modern car. An old car does not have to be a Vette, ’57 Chevy, ’65 Mustang, whatever, to be fun to drive. Those are the big money cars. Find an old car like this, put a few thousand into it to make it roadworthy, and drive it as is cosmetically. You won’t believe how much fun it is to drive, and how great it feels to be in something that’s NOT a Corolla or any other modern jellybean car. You will get a lot of thumbs up from both older and younger drivers. My old ’64 Ford never fails to attract attention wherever I drive it. I know I’m going to get a bunch of people coming over to look wherever I park it. And it is not an expensive restored classic. I work on vintage cars for a living. I see a lot of trailer queens, and it’s sad. I do understand these cars must be taken care of, you can’t just go out and buy a new one. But I have always had more love for old cars like this. Something you can drive instead of polish
Exactly. I drive my ’69 Skylark and people look, point & even take photos.
I get thumbs up & waves too.
Best reaction was a small boy who said, “Mummy that man’s on the wrong side!”
Meaning that its still LHD.
Oh. $9000 can bring up a nice GM W-Body with Buick 3800 already!
But I can only afford a $2000 LeSabre 🙁
Going to pick up a Crown Vic or a Toyota truck? I hear those are reliable.
OK, JG – you now have me drooling. Good thing there are already too many cars in my driveway. I am now driving my mother’s Buick LaCrosse to give it some exercise while she is recovering from an illness. I wonder if she would notice if I straight-traded it for this Plymouth. . . . . . “Really Mom, this is your car – don’t you remember?”
At your budget, you need a Town Car, right now. Am I right Tom Klockau? 🙂
Dude dropped the price to 8500 ….. just sayin’.
Why not keep the Focus, offer about $7-8K for the Plymouth, buy it, and enjoy every minute in it. Sure, it is slow. Sure, it doesn’t handle. But it will be fun…every minute. Look at the 2nd photo, with the Plymouth staring down the Benz. Guess what?….the Benz loses…the Plymouth is a way more outrageous car. Go for the Gusto! Damn the torpedoes…full speed ahead!
Very easy to get seduced with the modern conveniences of motoring and say to hell with the classic car life. Modern cars are damned ugly, but hey, when you’re sitting inside all that plastic luxury, who cares what it looks like.
So compromise Jim, Buy that Mercedes SEC in the background!
This old Plymouth is a Corolla compared to the Benz in the maintenance department.
I recently drove a 2013 Acura from Boston to NYC (about a 5 hour drive), and returned in a 1979 Chevy – a great way to compare modern and vintage back-to-back over a nice long trip. Honestly, for comfort and handling, there’s no comparison. On the Chevy, the steering requires constant correction and totally lacks precision, acceleration requires a lead foot and emergency braking immediately reminds one just why ABS is nice to have. The car wallows and leans. One is absolutely forced to drive slowly and defensively while other cars cut you off. The bench seat is cushy but totally lacks support, there are abundant creaks and rattles, there are no such niceties as a tachometer or a temp gauge, the mirrors are small, the visibility is just barely adequate, and no, there’s not a single cupholder to place your drink in. Oh, and forget playing a CD, programming navigation or even opening the passenger window without reaching over and turning a crank. We take all these modern features so much for granted that had I not grown up with these old cars, it would have been a very rude awakening. One really needs to remember that an old car is not just like a new car, only more stylish. There are very real trade-offs that cannot just be written off like something insignificant that a “real” car guy shouldn’t pay attention to. As a driver, I much preferred making that long trip in a fine modern machine like the Acura. But with all the drawbacks of the old Chevy, I had a grin on my face for the entire five hours that I drove it… And I’m pretty sure this Plymouth is quite capable of producing a similar effect, too, despite whatever drawbacks there may be.
There should be NO cupholders in ANY cars. Or touchscreen monitors. You should be DRIVING. Whew, I feel better now 🙂
I have the perfect CC craiglist find for you. There weren’t many when new and how many can have survived?
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/pml/cto/4744274537.html
A competent upholstery shop could do wonders with the interior of that Plymouth.
I also support the idea of making a much more reasonable offer on the Plymouth, then finding an ex-Police Crown Vic cruiser (or just keep your current Daily Driver and look forward to sunny weekends in the Plymouth).
Haggerty could insure the Plymouth for around $100 a year (guestimating)
While a ’48 Plymouth isn’t ever going to ride and handle like a 2015 Buick, we have to remember that a lot of the vintage iron out there is running on Medicare-eligible springs, bushings and even shocks. To have a fair comparison to a new or nearly new car, one would need to have a ’48 Plymouth that has just had a complete suspension rebuild, new springs, shocks, kingpins, wheel bearings, bushings, etc. all around. But in any event, keep looking before you buy that Corolla. There’s a lot of interesting stuff to be had cheaply that might be a bit easier to live with than a ’48 Plymouth. Staying with Mopar, and if you want reliability, how about a slant-six Dart? My personal favorites are the 1963-64 cars that borrowed a little front end styling from the turbine concept. Or something else that you know you will be able to fix because the parts are easily available and mechanics will recognize them, like all the Fords that used the same set of parts forever (Falcon, Comet, Maverick, Granada, Fairlane).
You are right about the Medicare-eligible suspension components (great imagery too!). Old cars like this Plymouth are great to look at, maybe even nice to sit in when not done up in this awful vinyl, but not suitable as a daily driver unless substantial upgrades are made. I rode in a friend’s ’57 Oldsmobile last summer and was shocked at how poorly it rode despite a really good restoration. He later replaced some of the suspension parts and said it made a huge difference, but that it would still never ride as good as a newer car.
I love my 2004 Focus wagon – it’s fun to drive, even with auto, steers and stops well and rides pretty good too. But I’ll pass on the old Plymouth.
I replaced EVERY suspension piece and all brake components with factory stock stuff from under my ’68 Dodge Polara 500 convertible. Certainly wouldn’t be fooled into thinking it was a modern car. But, I’d say I can manuever in today’s traffic with confidence include hard stops. None of the pitching and wallowing people complain constantly about.
Did the suspension in my ’63 Imperial convertible too. Same story. Mentally, I like the dual-circuit brakes on the ’68 — just more confidence inspiring. But, the Bendix brakes are just about identical to Mopar drums of the 80’s and 90’s. You’ve just got to get used to the dimensions of these cars and you’ll be fine.
On the topic of reliability… drop in an electronic ignition and your reliability goes up by an order-of-magnitude. Just sayin’. Pertronix on the Imp and Mallory Unilite on the Polara.
I’d happily drive this with a rebuilt suspension, repainted body (in a nicer period colour), properly redone interior – and to keep it all Mopar, a slant six under the hood.
I need a bone-reliable daily driver — a CC, to me, is a fun second car.
Get a Subaru Outback and drive it everywhere!
Very wise Jim, I have given up on having interesting transportation. Interesting is interesting, transportation is transportation.
Hence the 2007 Caravan / 1963 VW scenario.
Also I think you guys are being too harsh on the interior. It looks like a do it yourself project, so what? If it kept the car on the road at a price the owner could afford then great.
I paid $9000 for my Acura, with all of 66,000 km on it. Four years later, it’s had eight oil changes and two sets of tires.
Luxury, sporty and cheap don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
9K USD?
And today it’s worth….?
Today I could easily get $4500 for it and $5000 if I waited. Since it is owned by my business, I have also written off the depreciation, so the real depreciation cost has been about $2500. Not that it matters much, I plan to drive it into the ground. This may take a while, as the car only has 123,000 km on it now and I only drive about 10,000 km a year.
The total cost of operation in four years and 60,000 km has been $0.38/km.
This is Canadian dollars, of course.
Marshmallows? Anybody wanna make `smores?
Nothing is more fun than telling somebody else what set of wheels to buy. (Find a Renault Alliance!)
Seriously, Jim, you list a manual transmission as a requirement and people tell you to get a TC.
If you plan on keeping the Matrix XRS, manual transmission, why would you insist on having a manual with the second vehicle? Wouldn’t it be cool to have a contrasting vehicle rather than an almost same second car? The Matrix is a great car for tooling around town and other short distance stuff. So, why not a TC or W body for the longer distances? If you are open to get a slush box your range of selection is wide open. The difference in running costs between manual and automatic is not so big that it would kill a budget. Clutches wear out and are expensive to replace. Drop you purchasing price to keep some cash at hand and happy shopping! Look for 10 year old low mileage vehicles.
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/4759576308.html
Heh, I had a Renault Alliance! Here’s its story: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/cars-of-a-lifetime/coal-1983-renault-alliance-mt-the-appliance/
And my Matrix XRS is one of the ultra-rare automatics.
Man, I can’t keep your fleet straight!
XRS with auto is somehow the wrong combo. Do you even hit the “lift” with the variable cam timing? I heard it comes in at 6000 + rpm.
Now here is a plan: get a Mazda Miata with stick shift of course! Sell the Matrix and get let’s say an Olds Aurora with the 6cyl. engine. With the top down you can haul almost anything using the Miata. The Aurora supposed to be like an oasis on wheels.
Man, I can’t keep your fleet straight!
XRS with auto is somehow the wrong combo. Do you even hit the “lift” with the variable cam timing? I heard it comes in at 6000 + rpm.
Now here is a plan: get a Mazda Miata with stick shift of course! Sell the Matrix and get let’s say an Olds Aurora with the 6cyl. engine. With the top down you can haul almost anything using the Miata. The Aurora supposed to be like an oasis on wheels.
Of course their is always the Renault Alliance. Horribly cheap and guaranteed to be a conversation piece. 😉
I do hit that lift, but only when I floor it at highway speed. It makes for fun passing on a two-lane highway — bam, I’m outta there. It’s really something.
Except….. there’s a problem with the variable-valve timing, and if the car isn’t completely full of oil, the second you hit that lift the CEL goes on. Did I mention that my XRS has a slow oil leak?
Those Grand Prixes are nice. My dad bought 2 2004 used ones in a row for work. He drove a lot at the time, so once the green one got up on mileage a bit, he sold it and got a silver one. Just moved the 19in rims to the second one.
It wasn’t a GTP, but it was quick, reliable, and the red lighting inside is very cool. He liked them a lot but it was around 2007, when gas started creeping up, so he went for a Kia Rio for work.
I’d like a GXP, with the V8.
My dad bought an Impala SS to sell, from 2009 I believe, and while I never got to ride in it, apparently it was seriously fast. So I can only imagine the same would apply to the Grand Prix.
I had the Grand Prix as a rental for a week and I too liked it a lot. At the time it was called “mediocre” by consumer reports. If that is mediocre I want more of it.
It is a really nice touring car.
Jim, another one to consider is the Mazda6. It is available with stick shift. The wagon was only available with the V6, either manual or automatic. The sedan came with a 4 or a 6, manual or automatic. The driving dynamics are delightful. The car is not all that common therefore it could please your desire of driving something special.
The late Grand Prixs (Grands Prix?) were nice-looking from the outside, and nice-driving by most accounts. But oh man, that interior was pretty awful. Bubbles and bulges, straight lines in odd places, and those round vents like so many eyeballs. Plus that weird orange lighting? No thanks.
The Mazda6 could be a nice choice. The V6 versions moved pretty well, and the V6 stickshift? Optioned correctly, sports sedan on a budget. Attractive too, if not super distinctive. Make mine a V6 6-speed wagon. (Rare bird, I saw one recently and had to think about it for a moment…but it was high mileage and needed some work…)
I saw a Mazda6 wagon with the 5 speed for sale less than a mile away but passed on going to see it because TrueDelta’s reports on that car were pretty abysmal. I’ve driven rented 6-cyl Mazda6s of that generation and they were tons of fun, so it was hard to pass this car by.
Some interesting CCs there…not only the Plymouth, but the W126 SEC (and an early one at that, sealed-beam lights instead of composites). Plus that black coupe in the far background–Buick LeSabre or Olds 88 coupe perhaps?
The struggle between interesting and reliable is an age-old one, and sometimes there’s no good answer. When you throw cheap into the mix…hmm. The Crown Vic isn’t terribly exciting, but it’s reliable and costs me very little in repairs, so it stays. At least it’s not a Corolla. Interesting is why I have the Volvo, which was also cheap to buy. Interesting is the reason for having an “extra” car as it doesn’t have to be terribly reliable, just so long as it’s not eating up a ton of money that you won’t get back out of it!
The whole point of old cars is how great they look, and how much fun they are to drive. There is more than an apples and oranges difference between old “real” cars, and newer transportation appliances. They are not nearly as competent or functional as the new crap, but for someone who loves old cars, they are 100 times more fun to own and drive. They also take a lot more effort and skill to drive. But to me that is a big part of the fun. It’s also very satisfying to know that there are no microchips in them anywhere. It’s all 100% mechanical. If that is not your thing, then old cars are not for you. It does take a commitment to drive one on a daily basis.
Actually, as far as older cars go this makes a good choice if you want to use it daily. They are very simple to work on and in fact the Mopar flat six is extremely reliable if you don’t thrash it. Because these engines were produced until the late 70s for use on fork lifts and similar, parts are still available. The marshmellow ride can be dealt with by a relarively simple modification to the way in which the front dampers are fitted. Speaking of modifications, I believe the last flatheads used in cars had 130 hp; with sensible modifications, reliable 150 hp is possible. A T5 5sp box and an explorer rear would then mean you could cruise at 70 MPH with no problems; the Explorer rear gives you disc brake as well; by that point you would have fitted discs to the front – easy to assemble conversion kits utlising modern components are avaialable at reasonable prices. Know-how on those modifications exists on the P14-D24 and the HAMB forums. Last but not least: these, being fully chassied, are not as susceptible to rust as modern cars. In fact, if basically structurally sound, this is a car which would last for years and years – the truest form of recycling, and far less damageful to the envinronment than a Prius (think about the stuff used in its production and when the batteries need to be replaced)…
My parents had a 49 Plymouth that I learned to drive on. That car was a 2 door sedan but even still the seats were huge, you sat “up” like you were on a sofa, and getting in to the back seat wasn’t as much a squeeze as it would be in later models.
Handling? Yes, these cars would lean, but with their incredibly stiff springs they rode like trucks…and steered like trucks. And with 100 horses to move 3000 pounds of car with 3 speeds in the transmission….long grades and/or steep hills took planning and a LOT of push to the gas pedal.
$9K? More than I’d pay for a 4 door, though these cars are few and far between. Wonder how easily that vinyl seat covering will come off.
If it were me buying that ’47 Plymouth, I’d have NO problem changing what has to be changed to make it an enjoyable, reliable driver.
Someone somewhere has to have redone one with modern components, but without wild colors, a hoodscoop, etc.
Yes I’m criminal in the eyes of some, but I like the idea of having both worlds: ’50s style and comfort with at modern driveability. That’s the plan for my ’57 Chevy Handyman.
This old Plymouth does have a period correct color .
I’d be very leery of rust in the corners and pinch welds but some decent (like Bilstein HD) gas shocks (yes it uses tube shocks) will stop the wallowing & pitching *instantly* , adding a Pertronix ” Ignitor ” will instantly make it easily start in cold or hot weather , as this allows you to open the p;lugs up to .040″ power goes up noticeably too .
These sturdy , well designed cars came with Bendix dual leading shoe brakes that really do stop on a dime once you’ve maintained and adjusted them ~ adding a dual circuit master cylinder would prolly be a wise idea , not very $pendy either .
For ‘ transportation ‘ , you needn’t much speed , these were good drivers always once you greased and adjusted all the myriad suspension bits and slapped on some decent quality Light Truck Radial tires .
These are easy to maintain and hard to kill , primarily over speeding the long stroke fleat head engine did them in and yes , they keep up with traffic easily *IF* you bother to tune them up ~ no one ever does then they carp and whine about how slow / bad old cars are .
I can’t imagine $9K for this though , last Spring I was looking at a cherry ’49 Plymouth _Coupe_ with working radio and all new upholstery for $12K . it had nice robin’s egg blue paint , a sun visor , new tires , current tags the works and everything worked AS-NEW .
-Nate
I’m in favor of quiet mods like these if you’re going to drive a very old car. They’re not visible, and they make the car much more mannerly. If you’re going to restore it to concours condition and trailer it, don’t dare mod it, even like this, of course.
I’m behind on my CC articles. It’s sad when you don’t have the time to go to your favorite website everyday.
Anyway, I got stuck with my wife’s Corolla after buying her a nice RAV4 V6. It’s super dependable but it’s the driving equivalent of purgatory (the Corolla, not the RAV4… 270 horsepower makes anything interesting). It was so bad that I finally spent an entire day sorting out the brake problem on my 65 Plymouth Belvedere just so I can have something that makes driving interesting. It helps to occasionally drive it on days when I don’t have to drive to the farther office.
In the Corolla, I always have to have some sort of radio show or podcast on to break the monotony. In the Plymouth, I just enjoy the ride.