We got back last night from our trip to Austria and Italy, and what a memorable time we had. Before I explain this little encounter we had in a tunnel on the Stelvio Pass, let me first thank Brendan and William, who have kept CC rolling along at full speed while I was gone, along with a heaping dose of help from Gerardo and the other Contributors. It has been hard to get fully away from CC since its birth almost five years ago, so this vacation was a bit overdue. Thanks, guys!
I’ll start posting some of my experiences and finds soon, but this was one of the more memorable ones. We were returning from Italy (Piedmont region), and I picked the famous Stelvio Pass to make the drive back into Tyrol a bit more memorable. This is a view down of just one portion of it that I shot on the south side. There was still a whole other steep stretch ahead, which unfortunately was partially in the clouds on this unsettled day. And then of course there is the almost-equally dramatic drive down the other side.
In the stretch of the road below these serpentine curves, there are two or three modest-length tunnels. I entered one, right below the white arrow, that was (barely) two lanes wide. After a couple of hundred yards, the tunnel suddenly narrowed, into an older rough-hewn section, and strictly one-car wide only. Wow! No warning signs or lights before entering; fortunately, traffic was rather light that day. Hope nobody is coming the other way!
Sure enough, as I entered a mild curve in that narrow tube, suddenly I saw headlights on the walls. I slowed down, and found myself face-to-face with a Land Rover with Italian plates. By then I could see that he was only about three car lengths in from the end of the tunnel, so naturally I assumed he would back up to let me by, since the other end was a few hundred yards back, and there might well be other cars heading in behind me by now. I was not about to back up that far.
But I was wrong: he wouldn’t budge and gestured to me to back up. Um; no. You back up! I told Stephanie to get a shot of it, and just when she took it, a motorcycle came around the LR, on the wrong side.
By this time, two more cars had entered and stopped behind the Landy. I got annoyed, and honked, and opened my window to gesture to him to back up. After what seemed like way too long, he finally put it in reverse, and the cars behind him got the message and all three finally backed out. As I eased by him, he let lose a barrage of Italian; not complementary, I assume.
This scenario is actually rather representative of driving in Europe generally, at least in Austria and Germany. Despite the EU having the rep of being “nanny states”, the signage on roads there are very much less than in the US. If this tunnel had been in the US, especially on a famous and major pass road, there would have been several warning signs, and a signal system, or even flag men. There’s no way they would have just left it to motorists to figure out.
This example is a bit extreme, but in general, I rather prefer the lower level of signage, both in cities and on the highways. Europe assumes that motorists are capable of figuring things out, with a minimum of intervention. And it’s been shown that the more signs there are, the less drivers pay attention to them.
Here in Eugene, signage inflation continues unchecked, with this fairly recent absurd addition in my neighborhood being a graphic example. You won’t find any signs like this on Stelvio Pass, especially one that states the obvious like “Hill”, or “Curves Ahead”, never mind even “Tunnel Decreases To Single Lane”.
The E.U. may be a nanny state, but the U.S. a litigation state. Hence the silly signs and warnings. The gentleman have been keeping the fires here burning bright.
I prefer a nanny to a judge.
LOL!
It sure sounds like a well deserved and enjoyed vacation.
The lack or signage at the tunnel – I suspect Jason Shafer, myself, and any other American civil engineers who deal with roads will get an especially good chuckle out of that one.
Cool road, we too suffer from superfluous warning signs, I was party to planting some in concrete warning of tight bends, sign after sign as if the first couple of switchbacks werent warning enough.
And I complain about SoCal drivers… Great to have you back and looking forward to the interesting posts. The boys did an outstanding job while you were gone – a toast to your return and their great work.
+1. The site never missed a beat.
So glad to hear you got a much deserved respite. Welcome back to the land of rental houses. Contact me when you are ready for the ride in the 1964 Montclair. Norm
Seriously, a sign to tell drivers they are on a hill?!? I thought we in Australia were bad enough with absurdly over cautious warnings and signage, but ”hill”? What’s next? Perhaps ”you are in a car”? Where will it all end…..
They do seem silly in general but as a long-time Eugene-ian there are a few seriously steep roads in Paul’s vicinity that have taken me by surprise a few times. Like, “holy crap!” steep. I can’t blame the city for alerts on those few stretches. (The degree of slope in the picture is much lower than the streets I’m referring to.)
At least the “Hill” sign is clear and concise. There’s a sign in my neighborhood that reads “Road Changed Ahead”. Changed what? When? It been there since we moved here almost 5 years ago.
That Tunnel exists in the U.S.
The Anton Anderson Memorial Tunnel in Alaska.
It switches directions every hour.
Now in the contiguous States? That sucker would be shut down because it’s not fair to drivers on both sides of the road.
I can’t wait for pics from the trip!
There’s at least one switching one-way tunnel in the lower 48. In Marin County, just north of the Golden Gate, with traffic lights however.
Welcome back!
We’re over-signed also here in central Virginia. I personally love the warning signs for traffic lights when you can see them clearly just ahead. (And fog is rare here.)
Good for you, for not backing down…
Did he give you the universal traffic gesture, that needs no translation… The finger? Lol
Anyways, hope you got some nice pics of some Ferraris, Fiats and Alfas for me… That is a better souvenir than ANY T-shirt.
Glad to have you back, big guy. 😉
Welcome back and I look forward to the posts from the trip and hopefully a Rental Car Classic…!
In the UK, I think we have far to many road signs, including electronic ones with changing messages like “Is your eyesight fit to drive?”, “Keep your windscreen clear”, and “Don’t take drugs and drive”.
The important road signs are often in a symbol form not understood by many foreigners, just one of the reasons rental cars cause mayhem all over the Scottish Highlands all summer.
The UK hasn’t ratified this yet:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Road_Signs_and_Signals
BTW, this explains why I saw European-style signage while driving in Baja Calif. yrs. ago.
Does uphill or downhill traffic have the right of way when the road narrows? There are a few roads in Multnomah County where it would be good for know this. In Portland, Oregon there are numerous 3 and 4 way intersections without a stop sign or streets that have stop signs randomly sprinkled along its route which sure makes driving fun. Vermont has a lack of signage which makes you glad you have maps and patience though it can be stressful.
When I visited the Republic of Ireland I was surprised how narrow some of the main roads got going through towns and being barely two lanes wide. Slowing down or stopping to read road signs was also very common. Despite being in a rental van many of the locals both drivers and pedestrians would wave or raise a finger as a way to say hello as we plodded through the countryside. Every big rig over there has a long vehicle sign on the rear which was jarring at first, but useful.
I assume uphill has the right of way, like on hiking trails. Which further bolstered my determination not to back down, literally.
Thank you for the info and I too have gotten into a few automotive showdowns. The guys have been doing a great job with the website.
That’s right. Uphill has the right of way.
You could have kept your cool and brake out the pic-nick basket. 😉
Good to hear you enjoyed the trip, Brendan and William (and all the others) did a great job, thanks for that too !
…and for those who think that a so called “landyacht” is too big for old Euro-towns…
I just want to echo the thanks to William, Brendan, and others that filled in. There was no shortage of interesting material while Paul was gone.
That’s a trained professional at work, they can do stuff like that in confidence. I was equally impressed by our Austrian Setra bus driver. But when I saw Fiat 500s (original model) park perpendicular┴ to curbs in a relatively expansive city like Rome, you understand why I think urban Europeans might have heartburn with Detroit land yachts. Also, I noticed the Swiss went for Cadillac Sevilles in the ’70s, not Sedan deVilles.
“That’s a trained professional at work, they can do stuff like that in confidence”
That’s why I like videos like this so much:
BUGGER ! .
Johannes , THANK YOU for this ! .
There’s a reason I like little bitty vehicles =8-) .
-Nate
Yep, there are reasons why there are overall length / width / height restrictions and set-back front axles. Hence the extinction of big conventional trucks.
I wouldn’t try this with a Kenworth W900 with a sleeper cab…unless you tow a load of very short logs.
“Symphony for Diesel, brakes and steel plates”.
Those steel plates over the pavement are very confidence inspiring.
Wow, awesome video Johannes!
I just saw it and I still can barely believe it. Welcome back Paul, you left the site in good hands.
Sounds like a good trip, glad to have you back. The site was in good hands in your absence.
You argueing with the Land Rover guy about who should back up sounds like something that would happen near the Italian border. The Austrian agreeing logically that the Italian should back up due to less distance and the Italian making the not totally nonsense argument that mine’s bigger than yours.
I had something similar happen on a taxi ride in China on a narrow urban road. We were getting kind of scared as it looked like the taxi driver and the other fellow had exited the vehicles and looked like they were about to fight. At the last minute an old timer walked up, yelled at both of them, and shamed, they both then backed up. We were very happy when we finally got to the zoo.
Was that a level tunnel, or on a hill?
When two vehicles meet on a steep road where neither vehicle can pass, the vehicle facing downhill must yield the right-of-way by backing up until the vehicle going uphill can pass. The vehicle facing downhill has the greater amount of control when backing up the hill.
In any case, it would appear that the assumption about Europeans being able to figure things out was in error on that day.
I never encountered anything like that on my trip to Germany. Sounds to me like the tunnel needs a stoplight at each end, like in some construction zones, to regulate cars traversing from one direction at a time.
These guys have done a great job keeping the CC pipeline full while you were away.
My, how time flies! Glad to hear of your safe return, and I look forward to reading all about the excursion. Brendan, William, et al did yeomans’ service in keeping things rolling here, so thanks, gentlemen.
+1 on all of this.
Sometimes, when a relief steps in, you get quality or quantity. We got both, so well done Brendan, William!
Wie Geht’s? Glad to see you made it back!
When you noted you were going from Austria to Italy, I was wondering if you were going to be on the Stelvio. I missed my chance when I was over there. My nephew has been up and down it several times now and loves it each time. I guess maybe he didn’t meet the Landy in the tunnel, though…
Single-lane tunnels are rare, though you’ll find the odd one sprinkled about. There’s a one-lane underpass near downtown in Charlottesville, VA, which is kind of jarring when the two-way street abruptly goes one wide. However, that one is *maybe* 200 feet long, so you can clearly see whether or not anyone is coming the other way. And there’s a sign, of course…
Brendan, William, and Gerardo have definitely done a great job keeping things running here! Glad you enjoyed your well-deserved vacation and welcome back!
Great to have you back and thanks to the rest of the crew for keeping the site busy!
I don’t think such a tunnel would be possible in Germany, that certainly sounds very Italian. We do have a relatively steep and winding road on a hill in town that is single lane only. There’s a traffic light on both ends. Very Germanic 🙂
There’s even a video of the segment of someone riding on a bus passing through: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZGv9bdjVHc
A single lane on a bidirectional road is analogous to what Computer Science calls a Critical Section or Critical Region, which must be guarded against access conflict. Hence, software semaphores, used all the time in concurrent programming. Historical note: the late Dutch academic Edsger Dijkstra formalized the concept, which is why his abbreviations [P]asseren & [V]erhogen have remained in the literature. Some of Dijkstra’s technical essays have become classics.
The guys did a great job and welcome back Paul! Too many American drivers are lazy and / or inattentive and I am glad we have the signage that we do. As for the Italian guy in the LR I suppose it was nice not to have to worry about him whipping out a gun like you sometimes have to here. But now that I think about it sometimes I am so mad it wouldn’t matter if the guy had a machine gun. Good on you for standing your ground.
+1 As expected, William, Brendan and the guys did a great job. Sounds like an amazing trip, and kudos for holding your ground against the crazy Italian drivers.
In America, that would have turned into a road rage incident.
Paul, welcome back, but don’t worry, CC was in good hands! The Stelvio as well as the Futa and/or Raticosa further south are on my bucket list. I’ve seen many photos of the Stelvio switchbacks, of course, but never knew about the tunnels.
WELCOME HOME Paulie ! .
I can hardly wait for the vacation pictures…….
-Nate
Nanny state vs. litigation state, whooo, flame war beat!
Really, I’m glad to see that BS discussion removed from the comment section. If I want to see internet fights, I’ll go to reddit. The absence of such discussions, whether removed or entirely absent, is why I keep coming back here. No nonsense to get worked up over, but actual content, whether in-depth car histories or other related adventures like this one.
Locals will claim right-of-way over those pesky, slow visitors who don’t know how to drive on my town/village/mountain/backroad/motorway/roundabout, just anywhere. Even if the Stelvio Pass is not the easiest to drive. Hope you had a great trip dort in den Alpen!
There is a short tunnel like this in Vernon CT I drive thru sometimes. It used to be unmarked that it was one lane but i think they have added stop signs now.
http://www.tankerhoosen.info/history/bridges.htm
I have a feeling I would have caused an international incident in the same situation, definite kudos holding your ground and cool. That is a really cool looking shot at least, with the Land Rover in that rough narrow tunnel it looks like a scene out of an adventure movie, or an brochure shot for Land Rover lol
The sign thing is quite comical, I was biking along the Fox River Trail a few months ago and a few miles north of Dundee it suddenly starts to become littered with health and safety crap, most obvious of which is they painted lane dividers onto the asphalt and the most comical of which was a sign to tell me there’s a “bridge ahead” – This bridge was about a yard across and was just as wide as the trail(you don’t even know it’s there when you cross it). The ride from that point on I was coming up with other things that merit warning signs – “trees adjacent”, “leafy in fall”. I can’t believe I missed “hill (” though, there were definitely frowny faced hills too lol
Whenever I hear about how horrible Europe is, it’s inevitably from an individual who has never been there.
…or suffer a FOX News (or TTAC) overdose. Thank you for your comment.
I’ve spent loads of time in Europe. In fact, places like The Netherlands are very democratic. The country is largely run for the welfare of the citizens, with a good social safety net. The idea that this is incompatible with business is simply absurd. Little Denmark has huge Mearsk and Holland has Royal Dutch Shell. Having a nation that cares for its citizens benefits the vast majority of workers, and makes them more productive.
Anglo-Saxon vs Rhineland model.
I was born in and live in a very prosperous country / part of the world, I’m fully aware of that, and I count my blessings.
Beware of careless use of the word “democratic.” I do not rule just because I vote for some other guy who votes. Ancient Athenian democracy was a mess, which was why Sparta’s undemocratic constitution was admired by many philosophers instead. There’s even a word for it: Laconophilia.
At any rate, most western governments are republican (small R) in character, not democratic. But remember what happened to Rome’s republic.
I’m a history professor, and I can’t make any sense of what you posted.
First thing you can think of is flashing your credentials? How about asking pertinent questions instead, if I’m not being clear? I thought professors knew how to do that.
I’m not a history professor, and I can’t make any sense of what you posted.
There speaks a man who hasn’t tried to select reverse in a Land Rover? 🙂
Lol 😀