(first posted 8/16/2012) Nobody said that attaining one’s personal automotive Holy Grail was going to be easy, but finally there’s a Peugeot 404 gracing my driveway. It’s been quite the drama; first, finding one just like I used to have after having long given up, and then having it offered to me at a reasonable price. But no, something about that one just wasn’t going to work for me, and I passed; but it left a little 404-sized hole in my heart. And then out of the blue, I was given a hot tip by Tom Klockau about one for sale on ebay, and I decided to stop rationalizing and just went for it. Life is too short, the price was too good to pass up, and it was in much better shape than the other one; like new, actually. Most of all, this one would actually fit into my life (and garage).
Isn’t it a little gem? Although mine was white, I’m very fond of this silver too. It reminds me of Stephanie’s 404 wagon, which was a dark green, but we had resprayed (cheaply) in a duller version of this, more like a battleship gray. This one is a 1965, which means no side marker lights to sully up its handsome flanks designed by Pininfarina.
That also means the earlier version of the interior, not the later one that I had. This was used from the 404’s debut in 1960 through 1965. A little more cheerful, actually, than the more monochromatic later ones. Don’t those famous pillow-soft seats look inviting?
I once briefly had a really early 404, a 1961 or ’62, during my 404 rescue days. I shouldn’t have bothered, though; it was just too far gone to bring back to life. But I used to sit in it and admire the early-style dash, with the horizontal strip speedometer and the little rectangular gauges. The later style with large round gauges (1967 and up) were easier to read, but truth is, it was cheaper in its construction; a bit flimsy actually. And there was no padded vinyl to crack; just black metal with a sort of crinkle finish. My ’62 still had a white steering wheel, but I put one of these black steering wheels with the full horn ring in my ’68, which had the ugly padded center horn bar. Now my new 404 has the best of both.
The 1965 was the first year for five main bearings in the 1618 cc hemi-head slant four, but this one might just be short a few cc, or bearings too. But who’s in a hurry? And no more valves to adjust every 6,000 miles. Never mind changing the transmission and rear axle fluids every 4,000 miles. And a whole slew of other required maintenance items, which I just refreshed myself on from the 404 Owner’s Manual I still have.
Almost forgot that the older 404s still had their spare in the trunk, and not suspended underneath. When you build the same basic car for fifteen years (thirty, in Kenya), it does allow for steady improvements.
Now here’s a real trip back in time: this one has the original-style Michelin X tire tread pattern. I don’t know what material Michelin made their original X radial tires out of back then, but I still had some of those tires on several of my old 404s. I didn’t like its Xz (or zX?) replacement nearly as well, wider tread or not. The made the steering heavier, and were just a bit pricy for me, so I’d scour the junk yards for old-school Xs. Wore like steel, even without the steel belts showing through. They later brought out an XzX, which was taller and closer to the old X, but still not in that old tread pattern.
I’m thrilled to be able to run my hands over Pininfarina’s handiwork again. Now I just need to stop playing with it, and get out there and prune Stephanie’s garden, which has gone bonkers this year. Look at the size of those giant flowering shrubs and trees. It’s going to take my tall ladder to reach them.
Now here’s the best thing of all: in my post about the white 404 that was for sale, I suggested it was either it, or CC. Now that’s no way to live life; there’s always a win-win 200% solution out there, and I’ve found it. Now I can have both, even at the same time.
[1965 Peugeot 404 1:18 scale die-cast model by Norev]
I’m still not sure how Pininfarina got away with selling the exact same design to different manufacturers (To Peugeot and BMC)? Didn’t these companies know they’re buying the same thing? Especially since they’re not so far apart, there would be many a market where the two of them would compete.
It’s hardly the “exact same design”; the BMC cars had significant differences, especially on the sides, roof, rear end, and especially the rear window area. Maybe to us in hindsight they look the same, but at the time, no one would have had any trouble telling them apart.
I’m sure if you showed some of today’s cars to folks forty years from now, they’d have trouble telling some of them apart too. Hell, even I do. Some of today’s roly-poly CUVs look way too similar.
And the market was less global then: Austin and Peugeot’s main markets had very little overlap.
Pininfarina has had a sorry history of selling nearly identical designs to different manufacturers. Peugeot was usually at the business end of their dirty dealing. Eventually it all came to a head when Alfa introduced the 164 at the same time Peugeot introduced the smaller 405, and then a year later introduced the larger 605, which was a direct competitor to the 164. Of course, design details clothed all three cars with brand-specific jewelry, but Pininfarina definitely had some explaining to do. As Peugeot people close to events have told me, they and Alfa were largely kept in the dark about the similarities right up to each model’s debut at the 1987 Paris and Geneva auto shows. At the time this was quite a scandal. Revolving center stage at each brands exhibition space were three cars appearing all too uncomfortably similar.
In the 1950’s, ’60’s and ’70’s, this didn’t matter so much because each respective European nation threw up prohibitive tariffs designed to protect the native automakers. However, in the 1980’s, the EU began it’s auto sector convergence, which by 1992 resulted in a level playing field, broadening consumer choice but also creating the potential for revealing the existence of me-too designs.
When the debacle (Peugeot’s word not mine) of the 405, 605 and 164 similarities broke in the late 1980’s, Peugeot had had enough having gone through this with the 403 and the 404 in the 1950’s and 1960’s. over the ensuing years, design briefs from Peugeot directed towards their traditional styling partner began to trickle down to nothing, so that by the early 2000’s all Peugeot designs were brought back in-house, ending a 48 year working relationship with Pininfarina. In-house design using world-renown designers had become the industry norm. Did Pininfarina cause this trend, or merely hasten it and thus caused their currently significantly reduced position as an industry styling trend-setter?
My opinion is that Pininfarina: “reaped the wind and so must now sow the whirlwind…” to quote RAF Bomber Command Air Marshal Harris when he spoke of Nazi Germany.
No manufacturer with any self-respect wants to produce look-alike cars, if only for the simple fact that it causes egregious brand confusion, turning a representative FOR brand distinction instead into a rolling agent and on the move maker obfuscation and brand confusion.
That Pininfarina willfully and over time defied this basic tenant of automobile marketing mystifies me to this day.
Thank you for the excellent analysis, which is spot-on. What Pinifarina did in the fifties and sixties was still fairly benign, but they clearly had a tendency which did come to a “debacle” with the 164/405/605. I was utterly amazed at the time, and I’ve written about it, but not at this site, with my CC on the 164.
Every idea has its time, and end. Pininfarina was brilliant in seeing that the highly fragmented auto industry of the immediate post-war era did not have design expertise. He created an industry catering to that need, but as the industry consolidated and design schools proliferated, design moved to in-house status. It was a good run, but the era of outside designers is totally over. And it was inevitable; the “debacle” only hastened it somewhat.
PS: FWIW, Peugeot’s design language in the post-Pininfarina era has hardly been a big success either. But that may be more reflection of the times in general.
Having thought about your (and my) comment a bit further, the question arises: was it ever realistic to expect someone like Pinifarina (or the other major Italian design houses) to be able to create truly unique and distinct design identities for multiple clients? If you look at the work of any creative designer (or design team), there is an organic growth and evolution, like any creative pursuit. Can that happen in multiple streams, simultaneously? I rather think not.
At one time, clients were quite willing and eager to have their cars dressed in Farina suits, even at the risk of a loss of brand identity. That was the fashion at the time. But when the fashion changed to having completely bespoke suits, done in-house, that didn’t work. But I don’t blame Pininfarina and the other design houses for that. The “debacle” just turned out to be the key pivot point in that change.
Thank you Ken Ramonet for that detailed and insightful explanation. I didn’t immediately associate this “debacle” and others that follow, with the fact that there’s hardly any cars today designed by an outside (néé Italian) design house. Most automakers have their own designers and design language. I guess they really reap what they sow.
Paul, yes, I do expect they could come with totally different, unique, yet good looking design for each client. That’s what the client is paying them for! Otherwise they simply didn’t deliver what they’re being paid for. If you commission an artist for some art, you’d expect a totally unique product. That’s why you don’t buy something off the shelf! Would you be happy if if the artist come up with something pretty much like what he’s done before, and sold to another client?
Maybe China will be where they could do business next? They definitely needs help in terms of design, and they don’t seem to have a problem with copycat product that looks exactly like one from another manufacturers.
Easier said than done. Most artists at any given time in their evolution are working within a certain range of expression. The manifestation of that may appear different, i.e. a portrait painter may paint many different faces, but there tends to be a very strong similarity in his technique at any given point. But we can’t compare a car designer to a portrait or landscape painter, because the designers are asked to come up with a “new” design, not just an artistic take on what the are looking at.
We could debate this endlessly, but I can imagine myself in pininfarina’s or Giugiaro’s shoes: design totally different and utterly unique designs for different clients? I don’t think it can be done. It defies the reality of the artistic process.
FWIW, Pininfarina started hiring a number of other designers in the early sixties, and stopped designing himself. So there were more ideas floating about, but still, a certain continuity was desired. It had to be recognizable as a Pininfarina; that was still desirable, by both the clients and by the design house.
Frankly, that’s what the clients wanted from the design houses; like I said, it’s a like buying an Armani suit – it comes in numerous variations, and changes with time, but it’s instantly recognizable (by those who are familiar with that sort of thing). But the fashion changed, and the “debacle” just brought that into glaring clarity.
The evolutionary congruence of modern car design wrought by aerodynamic imperatives is to the point that a lot of carmakers have resorted to stylistic gewgaws (e.g. Mercedes, Hyundai) that are really annoying to me, in order to provide “character”.
I love the purity of most Pininfarina designs that were done for Peugeot, even the plain Jane 604 and 504CC models, but particularly that of the various 404 models. They were the best of that design school, that included BLMC, Fiat, Lancia etc.
I find Peugeot’s in-house design team to be generally poor; IMO their best effort was the 406 sedan, but Pininfarina’s totally gorgeous 406 Coupé showed that they still had “it” much moreso than the Welter group. Recent Pininfarina designs are a mixed bag – most modern Ferraris are hideous for example, which makes me wonder when we might see pretty Peugeots again.
I agree with you largely, but I don’t think that it’s being driven by aerodynamic imperatives. Aggressive aerodynamics have been handled well in the past. It’s just what’s in the air these days regarding design. As an example, have you seen what’s going on with power tools? They were all once sleek and handsome, with design leadership provided by Bosch, exemplifying the classic sleek, simple Germanic look. Now this is what they all are looking like: UGLY. Like Nike sneakers from 15 years ago. Fluidic dynamics…
Oh, and BTW, I rather like the Ferrari 458!
RAF Bomber Command Air Marshal Harris was quoting the Bible, Hosea 8:7. It’s a passage that has become a common saying.
Yes, their first in house design the 407 was a lovely horrible car..
I still wonder today why they put the body rear side front, the rest of their ‘own’ designs were first class crap that made the crisis even worse for Peugeot at the time.
Today nothing of this old ‘Peugeot’ feeling is left, same as Mercedes, they just make cars.
Like the Japanese do, only better
And when mentioning Pininfarina as Peugeot’s design house, be fair and also mention cars like the 504, the 504 Coupé this design was not shared or borrowed to others and le petit 205, that car and Jacques Calvet saved Peugeot or PSA back in 1984 !
And last but not least, the stunning 406 Coupé the last of the great Peugeots as far as I am concerned.
Being a convertible guy (no, not that way), I noticed this with the 505 cabriolet and Fiat 124 roadster. Most Americans would mistake the two.
Fiat also had a similar body design in their 1800/2100. Here’s an Austrian version, in homage to our host.
Enjoy, Paul! It looks like a lovely example. Do you have a garage to keep it in between drives or will it be acquiring some biological patina on its north side?
It’s going to be pampered; I’ve found space for it inside.
Boy that’s a real survivor! Beautiful car… (c:
I almost bought it, but the all too perfect condition and Jurassic Park-scale greenery were the tip offs. But nice try!
You had me going there for a bit too, Paul.
I was completely fooled up until the picture showing the engine compartment, when I realized that something was amiss . . . excellent job!
Picture #4 had me thinking this car is so perfect inside it almost looks like a model car in it’s perfection….and pictures 7 and 8 got me to thinking that they must have some serious weed and greenery issues in that wet and rainy environment up there in the PNW………Great photo composition, Paul! Beautiful detail in that model for sure.
Can’t wait for your Ferrari Daytona acquisition come next April 1! 🙂
Sweet model! There are also 1/18 scale 404 cabriolets and Coupés, if you have the room in your driveway! 😉
Nice buy. Looks like a very nicely detailed model.
And I was so excited for you rejoining the Peugeot owner family! I guest this still counts but I still think deep down that a 404 wagon will ultimately find you. The Peugeot call is very strong.
That is one nice model, however, even down to the slight sag in the rear end.
Very nice. I would love to find a 403. I did find a 39 Ford which is quite accurate with lots of detail.
You’re still using Microsoft Windows? I thought everyone in Oregon had moved or was moving to Ubuntu or something.
You didn’t fool me for a second, you wily tale-teller, you! I’m glad we have you and CC with us, and your car too.
Remember, I love obsolete machinery of all sorts.
Yes, but it seems out of character to be using a scion of blood-sucking crony capitalism. Almost as if you were found in an over the top Stutz with Continental kit and full vinyl/opera lamp/window treatment. Obsolete, yes, but desirable?
This is great. I guess I had never thought to tell anyone about my Chrysler 300B and my 62 T Bird convertible.
What 300B? You sure are forgetful. I expect we’ll be getting a CC soon, even if the miniature kind…
LOL !
I was thrilled for you until the third picture burst my bubble!
Damn you Paul. 🙂
Maybe next the post will be a legitimate Pug 404 Present COAL
Great model beautiful detail. NZ had these new and the BMC twins and for a car mad kid they were easy to tell apart, all 3 rusted badly though in our humid climate and survivors are rare thanx to the influx of used Japanese junk thousands of good classics were dumped.
Very funny. I was fooled until the very end. I was too focused on the car, not the surroundings.
Y’know, I have serious medical, mental, physical and psychological issues with fixed windows, but rear doors too? The horror!
You had me going too Paul…
In hand all right. You had me fooled for awhile too, very nicely done! That one in front of the garage is perfect.
The Power of Suggestion!!!!
Ah…you get to sneak this one upstairs for a little MM time. Enjoy!
buy a real one these were great cars bult like granite and I think they did a convertible with totally different panelwork that was a real beauty
That’s a wonderful model. I like 1/18 diecast models, but did know about Norev. THey have a incredible invetory of European and UK vehicles, with an emphasis on French models. Going through the various websites, I saw cars I had forgotten about, ones i had never seen, and about 25 I just had to have. I bought a Mercedes D200 wagon, and a 66 Citreon DB sedan.
Thanks, Paul
But where is my CC dream car, a 1st or 2nd generation Pontiac Grand Am, like the one here on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1974-GRAND-AM-4DR-W-FACTORY-400-4-SPEED-BUCKET-SEATS-75-TRANS-CAN-AM-OPTIONS-73-/350585884142?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item51a08c0dee#ht_22678wt_665
Time to add more fuel to the fixed windows fire (fight), okay Zackman? >:D
Beautiful 404 in amazing condition. I own a ’69 404 Automatique that is currently garaged and non-op but I will eventually revive it (I keep repeating this to everyone, but it never happens). You’ve probably already been warned, but please note the special care that your worm drive differential requires. US owners’ manuals recommend changing its oil every 6,000 miles. What they neglect to mention is that you really should be using a vegetable based Esso lubricant that is no longer made and was never available in the States. The reason is that the bronze gear will become severely pitted and eventually be destroyed by the sulfur in conventional 90 weight differential oil (this happened to my 404). You should use either vegetable-based Castrol R40, available from Abingdon Spares in Walpole, NH (abingdonsparesllc.com), or possibly a conventional gear oil that claims to be “yellow metal safe” (the vast majority of them are not). Have fun with your car, Paul.
You nearly foxed me untill I thought that steering wheel is a bit too thick….
I think you should still be looking for a real one….
You have a nice home!
Dawid
I think the earlier Michelin tire that you liked was called the X-Stop.
Great back-and-forth about styling… I learned a lot from it, and continue to get new info from reposts that originated before I was following.
BTW did I ever show you MY personal 404?
This looks so much like a Fiat 1100D. Does it to anybody else? From nose to tail to even the interior.
That is a truly excellent model. So many models, even in that scale, have details that still look a bit toylike – window frame thickness, panel gaps, badge size, door handles…. That one looks perfectly proportioned. No wonder it caught some of us out.
shoot paul, for a moment i thought you had purchased another one.
full size that is.
Hello Paul!
I read your piece with immense pleasure, and the joy of realizing a long and personal dream like that. I am a writer working on a creative memory piece about the Peugeot 404 wagon that l grew up in, and travelled to many places with. If this reaches you, and you have the inclination, let me know if it would be possible to chat on the phone sometime, if you are in the US. I have a few specific 404 history questions that it seems you might know. Otherwise we could do a Zoom call sort of thing. Thank you.
— Frank Ortega
Hi Frank!
Sure, I’m always ready to talk 404s.
Send me an email at curbsideclassic@gmail.com and we’ll set it up. I’m just heading out to the wilds of Northern Nevada in our van tomorrow morning, but will be back by the following week.
Paul