Think that title is some cheap attempt to grab your attention? It is, but it’s also true – I did decline a BMW in favor of a Toyota Sienna.
There was a very valid reason for doing so. Like many things in life there are always reasons that aren’t obvious.
It started with my daughter’s harp. Harps, like all instruments, require periodic maintenance. Given the rarity of harp players, finding someone to work on them isn’t easy. My wife found a gentleman from Indiana who travels internationally to regulate harps (adjusting levers, pedals, and replacing strings) and he was taking appointments in Kansas City. She made the appointment last fall.
We decided all three of us would go for a nice little excursion.
With three of us going, it quickly narrowed down which vehicle we would be taking. Had it simply been two people, our Passat would have worked great. Drop the backseats and the harp slides right in. However, the harp – it’s approximately 28″ x 53″ and it has to lie flat – required the lion’s share of backseat width, relegating a third person to having nowhere to sit.
My pickup wasn’t an option. With the harp needing to be in a climate controlled environment, its configuration was a non-starter.
That left us with our van. Despite fussing about, and hurling pejoratives at, this rig in various articles over the last six years, my opinion about it has inexplicably softened the last few months. Perhaps dementia has set in early.
A few days prior to departure, a time near the end of an extended period of sub-zero (Fahrenheit) temperatures, it would not start. It had been sitting for a while and upon the non-start discovery my schedule did not allow for any diagnosis. The engine cranked fine but the fun ended there. I suspect a fuel issue.
The night before departure, and with no viable transport, I did a Hail Mary and booked a rental minivan from one of the two local rental chains.
Of the two, the one founded in St. Louis and likely used by William Shatner was sold out.
My reservation guaranteed me a Chrysler Pacifica or similar. All is good, right?
My pickup time was 10 am; I arrived around 9:30 with the harp case to give a trial fitment. With this particular office being in a strip mall, their inventory is all out in the open by their front door. No minivans were present.
Confirming my reservation with the clerk, I told him I was transporting a harp as I held up the empty case. His face dropped and his eyes grew wide.
He grabbed the keys to a BMW X3 and commented on the general roominess of SUV’s; the harp case did not come anywhere near fitting. No dice on the BMW; in fact, it was further from working than our Volkswagen.
We then examined a GMC Terrain. Nope, the GMC didn’t cut it either.
In a last, desperate attempt, we tried a Chevrolet Malibu. It was the closest by far but it still wasn’t close enough. I was rather agitated by this point; I was five hours from an appointment 150 miles away in Kansas City and had no way to effectively transport a harp.
The clerk called their office in Columbia (population 108,000) which is 33 miles north. I was told a brand new Pacifica was on the lot, ready to go. After some discussion with Mrs. Jason (who promptly called their Customer Service with a scathing critique about taking reservations for vehicles not in stock), I drove to Columbia.
There was so much room we used blankets and pillows to keep the harp from shifting.
Out front was a Toyota Sienna. Joy of joys, that harp case slid in with loads of room to spare. The clerk knew I was coming and was as terrific as the one in Jefferson City in his desire to help. He apologized profusely about telling me it was a Pacifica, despite my assurances there were no worries about an honest mistake. I also learned it was their only available minivan between St. Louis and Kansas City.
I drove back home to get the harp and the two females before making a mad dash to Kansas City.
How was the Toyota? Let me preface this by saying for all the positives I’ve heard about Toyotas, my experiences with them have been tepid. This Sienna does have some things going strongly in its favor but that is only part of the equation.
The biggest virtue of the Sienna is passenger comfort. The driver’s seat is great, providing support in just the right places for most passengers. It’s a nice height from the floor, making it feel a lot like a very comfortable living room chair.
The position of the steering wheel was a little wonky and not the most natural, but that could have likely changed had I fiddled more with adjustments. The wonkiness did dissipate after a short time. My only comparison with current minivans is the Dodge Grand Caravan; the Caravan has a more natural seating position, although the seats in the Toyota are generally better, particularly in the second row.
Unassuming and predictable are the operative words with the Sienna. Navigating is as easy as pie, whether on the interstate or the tighter confines of places like downtown Kansas City. Given minivans aren’t as mini as they used to be, it’s obvious Toyota has dialed out the cumbersome that can creep into big boxes on wheels.
Another nice thing about the Toyota is its 3.5 liter V6. Rated at 296 horsepower, it’s a smooth and powerful little honey, revving great without any drama. In fact, it’s a little deceptive, not unlike some other engines I’ve experienced the last few years. At first blush it seems a little pokey but when standing on the happy pedal things take a distinct turn for the enjoyable.
But everything isn’t sunshine and butterflies. It becomes tedious when a nearly 300 horsepower minivan possesses a chronic need to downshift in favorable terrain. Perhaps it’s due to gearing or its peak torque being at 4,400 rpm but this Toyota had to downshift relentlessly. The tachometer needle jumped up and down like a yo-yo even when running at the 70 mph speed limit on I-70. There were three instances in which it had to downshift on level ground.
It was so frequent my wife asked if something was wrong with the vehicle.
The incessant downshifting ate into fuel mileage. I admittedly did not check it as closely as I could have, but rough calculations put my fuel economy at just over 20 mpg with an ambient temperature that day of 55 Fahrenheit, the first day in weeks it was above freezing. It’s EPA rating is 19 mpg city and 27 mpg highway, a highway rating which seems rather optimistic given my almost exclusive highway use.
There were also two items in which I am still debating if they are a reflection of this van having spent the first 40,000 miles of its life in a rental fleet or a reflection of how these might age. It’s likely a combination of both.
The first, a minor but remarkable thing, was the carpet in the driver’s footwell. This van was manufactured in December 2016 and possessed no floor mats yet a small hole had already been worn into the carpet. I have driven and ridden in countless fleet vehicles in my career, vehicles generally having comparable or more harsh conditions than a daily rental, and I’ve never seen such premature wear.
The second issue was thankfully discovered before I left the rental lot. With the clerk folding and adjusting seats for me, he went to close the electric sliding door on the driver’s side. It was unresponsive. There was nothing amiss to prevent the door from closing. Trying the key fob and the door handles both inside and out, the door would not close despite multiple attempts that drank a lot of time. The clerk, having had his fill, shoved the door shut against the resistance of the electric motor.
As it shut he looked at me and smiled. I honored our gentlemen’s agreement about not touching this door. The other door was flawless.
Again, is it a function of daily rental service or insight into what one might anticipate? It’s undoubtedly a combination, with the proportions being debatable.
Upon making the reservation, I viewed the websites of Toyota, Honda, Kia, and Chrysler to learn more about the interiors of their minivans. I knew Chrysler had the Stow-N-Go system (seen here) and was curious what the others had so I would know what to expect. Curiously, Toyota did not bring as much attention to the versatility of their seat and storage arrangements as did most of the others.
Picking up the van, which I’m still happy was available, quickly revealed why Toyota’s website skimmed over such things. These eight hooks for the seat screamed out like a hungry coyote on a cold winter night.
Making matters worse, all of these hooks were covered in grease. What other brands of contemporary minivan have exposed grease? My needing to place a Kleenex over these hooks to keep things unstained – to supplement the flattened cardboard box I had already placed on the floor so those hooks wouldn’t poke holes into a harp – is unfortunate.
To be fair, there may have been a factory cover for the storage area that was simply missing.
While I was waiting in the hotel lobby for the technician to finish regulating my daughter’s harp, a woman left carrying her much bigger harp. Stepping outside, I saw her near the entrance loading her instrument into the back of a Chevrolet Traverse.
Striking up a conversation with her about vehicles conducive to hauling harps, I was able to inspect the interior of her Traverse and how folding the seats provided an entirely flat floor (hers appeared to have a second row bench). She said her previous Ford Explorer was good but her Traverse is great. Admittedly, the Traverse is an SUV and not a minivan, but both it and the Sienna have a third row seat.
It’s interesting; GM, a company having bouts of not being able to find its ass with both hands, can make a flat floor upon folding the seats. Kia and Chrysler can as well. Why not Toyota?
So, in the big scheme of things, would I consider a Sienna? If hauling a harp or any other type of cargo is involved, I would explore other options. If I was hauling people, it would be worthy of consideration as it is generally more comfortable than the Dodge Grand Caravan. Despite its downshifting propensity, I liked the Sienna. But I would have to drive a Kia Sedona, Chrysler Pacifica, and Honda Odyssey before writing a check.
Yet what is more important than my impressions about the Toyota Sienna is what renting it represents – that my wife and I will go to any length to keep a promise made to our child. Toyota can make all sorts of changes for the next Sienna but one does not get a second chance when raising a child.
I’ve heard of the golf-bag criterion but this beats all.
Don’t laugh. When I bought my Scion xB, the criterion was ease of entry for an invalid wife and convenience in carrying a folded wheelchair. And the salesperson at Car Max got the store wheelchair out of the back room so I could try multiple cars. Her idea, I would have never thought to ask.
Did your rental have the full rear power seats that stow and stand? I ask because I also noticed in your photo from the rear cargo bay nobody took off a pair or rear headrests, which will result in an uneven floor.
The headrests flip down to fit into the seat recess, and then a velcro flap flops over the gap to create a flat – or flatter, anyway – load floor. Sorry that this Sienna was disappointing, but it does sound like it lived a tough life before your rental.
Did I read this correctly? There are some sedans that came closer to accommodating the harp than a CUV is capable of doing?
Sometime in the last 12 months, IIRC, it seems like Car&Driver ran a minivan comparison test. I remember that the Pacifica took first place but can’t remember who took second, perhaps Honda? I do remember that Toyota didn’t do too well.
Don’t know if it’s the case here, but I have become quite conscious of the shifting point when my car goes in and out of overdrive. When I give it a certain amount of gas it is apparently right on the point of being about to upshift or downshift. It got so annoying on a recent trip that I disengaged overdrive while driving through a particularly hilly section of rural PA. But my car doesn’t have 300 horsepower, sounds like the Sienna has odd shift points or maybe the transmission was out of adjustment?
Yes, you did indeed read sedans are better than are CUVs for hauling a harp.
One item to keep in mind is my need for three passengers. All would have worked with two passengers but due to the shape of the harp, the space needed comes from the middle of the rear seat. With the BMW and Terrain (which was better than the BMW but still not successful) getting the harp to fit even with the rear seats folded down was a dicey proposition due to the shape of the rear compartment.
I’ve known for a while I wasn’t enthusiastic about CUVs; perhaps this is why.
I’m almost positive I could fit your harp in the trunk of the SS – it’s cavernous.
Harp, schmarp, just tie it down to the roof rails, what we all want to know is what’d you think of the center console area? 🙂
But seriously, glad it worked out well enough for you guys, I remember you mentioning this appointment to me long ago. A certain Seinfeld episode comes to mind again…
Interesting about the shifting issue, it seems a bit out of character for the Sienna at those speeds with that far from a a full load. I rented one of this generation once and was less than impressed with its somewhat “wallowy” feel (at least the one I got). But it was very comfortable, I’ll grant it that. We have the same engine and probably trainsmission in our car and no similar issues there, or at least any shifting is very unobtrusive to the point of not being remarkable whatsoever.
It gets an “A” for “Ain’t An Issue”.
Had I gotten one with less life experience, my take on it may be different, particularly the door, carpet, and shifting observations. It does have the 8 speed automatic, but given the relatively terrain of I-70 in western MO, the incessant downshifting has me concerned on what that thing would do in the hilly parts of Colorado.
Ah, we have the 6-speed. It will downshift but won’t hunt between gears, at least not in any way objectionably. The MB does so as well with its 7-speed, i.e. drops a couple of gears below top gear and holding it for miles on inclines at elevation.
You’d absolutely hate the Grand Caravan here, taking one I had a few years ago on I70 over the passes it would just keep jumping back and forth and range between not enough power in the higher gear to absolutely screaming at redline in the lower gear. Over and over and over…
Part of it may just be nature of the things, the more gears it has the more opportunity it has to decide there is a better gear to be in. It gets frustrating (obviously) if the shifts themselves aren’t perfectly smooth or the engine becomes very audible.
“the more gears it has the more opportunity it has to decide there is a better gear to be in.”
I experienced the same thing on my 59 Plymouth’s windshield wipers. For a time Chrysler used an infinitely variable wiper switch, a rheostat, basically. It amazed me how much more satisfying a 2 speed wiper switch is. There, you know you have limited choices and you pick one. With infinite choices your (or at least my) mind says that there is always something better.
Wow, this comment sub-thread hits two of my hot buttons.
My wife’s ’12 Routan has the excellent Pentastar 3.6l engine, and can return 30mpg on the highway without any real effort. The transmission it’s bolted to, on the other hand, and in a word, STINKS. It’s always two gears away from where it needs to be and the slightest headwind is enough to send it down two gears, up one, up one, lather, rinse, repeat ad nauseum. I got to where I put it in manual shift mode anytime we’re remotely near a hill just to keep it from hunting like a bloodhound.
My ’15 RAM 2500 also has a 6AT, which must have been programmed by the same idiots, as it behaves exactly the same way. Thankfully, it has a Tow/Haul mode that locks you out of 6th, but shifts the way it should in 1-5, with little noticeable impact on fuel economy (of course, it only averages 13 to start with).
Both of those vehicles, to their praise, have intermittent wipers with preset intervals that I can adjust to prevailing conditions and they work very effectively.
My SS, on the other hand, has a 1-2-3 detent on the stalk, but automatically uses “rain sense” mode anywhere in-between full On or Off. No way to switch that feature off, and it rarely senses correctly. I might as well have the old Off-On-Deluge switch from my Vega, as I have to manually switch it constantly to match conditions. I shake my head at the befuddled tech in the car all the time, as it’s “So nearly inspired,” to borrow a phrase from McCall. Thankfully, they perfectly nailed the driving experience and one can forgive a lot because of that.
Oddly enough, this is just the sort of article I come to CC for! What an interesting way to think about a vehicle – not just an evaluation of a typical rental car but in the context of hauling a harp! Fun stuff. Few vehicle forms are more all around useful than the two box van layout. Not ideal for everything but adequate for almost anything. And don’t let the doors and fake truck visual cues of the Traverse fool you – it’s a mini van. Or at least it’s much closer to one than it is to a K-10 based Blazer!
You’ve hit on one thing that drives me bonkers – excessive shifting. There’s a current generation Ford Explorer in the motor pool at work and it’s behavior is as described. Plenty of power but incessant downshifting on even the most modest hills. It makes me appreciate a characteristic of the current common turbo power plants – torque everywhere. My VW Golf with the same 1.8 TSI engine as the Passat only downshifts on the highway if I stomp the pedal, otherwise it doesn’t need to. It will pull up Saluda grade and Fancy Gap in NC at 75 mph with no loss in speed or downshift needed. I 77 in WV, same thing.
A coworker just bought a new Ram truck which he loves compared to his old 2002 but he has mentioned that it “shifts all the time”.
Ive been driving automatic cars recently first time in many years and the constant downshifting to maintain speed on even slight climbs is tiresome, OK they were Holdens and the worst of them had the newer type engine and I did have one when they were a current model and hated that too so, no surprises there, but having finally bought another car for me I managed to get a manual transmission version quite rare here but at least it doesnt downshift without being told to.
The 6MT in my SS (SS-V Redline to you) is *perfectly* ratio’d. I test drove a 6AT, and it seemed okay, but I wasn’t in it long enough to discover any bad traits.
Note that the current third generation Kia no longers allow you to remove the second row seats or the console between the front seats. Which is very disappointing because we love our second generation Sedona, but have driven it as a two seater since the day we brought it home.
Probably going Dodge or Chrysler on the next one, as we love the stow and go idea.
Looks like that harp needs about the same square footage as a 2 pounder cannon. You don’t have to deal with height or weight. I, on the other hand, don’t have to factor in fragility.
I’m glad my daughter just plays the violin!
Seriously, though, your experience interests me from a few perspectives. For one, we’re considering renting a minivan for a long-distance trip this coming summer, and I’ve been somewhat apprehensive that the rental place will try to give us an SUV (with smaller cargo capacity) at the last minute. The “…or similar” caveat in car rental reservations is somewhat disconcerting when you really need a specific type of vehicle. Your experience validates this concern, so if we go through with these plans, I’ll be ready to harp on them… and to have a Plan B.
Second, at some point soon, we’ll be in the market for a new minivan to replace our Odyssey, so other folks’ perspectives on new minivans are quite interesting. The rear seat folding flat issue is perplexing with this Sienna – that’s not at all the type of fatal flaw I was expecting to read about. And the excessive shifting issue would drive me nuts. I’ve heard this complaint about other newer cars as well, and I wonder if it’s a function of too many gears with very close ratios – or poor interaction with adaptive cruise control – or some combination of these issues. If a vehicle shifts excessively in relatively flat highway driving like you described, I can’t imagine what it must be like to drive on steep or winding roads.
For what’s it’s worth, we’re very satisfied with our Sienna. (Same generation as the featured model; earlier year.). The transmission hasn’t had the same shifting issues, and it is very comfortable for long trips. The biggest downside is the hard-plastic, utilitarian interior compared with earlier Siennas. The cost-cutting is evident, though the interior has held up quite well. A good car, all in all.
A wonky vehicle speed sensor can cause hunting for gears.
Dirt in the tracks can cause an electric sliding door to refuse to operate properly. I had to clean the Windstar’s tracks frequenty.
I think if you owned that Sienna you would figure this stuff out. When renting I don’t want to do the owner’s job though.
Both handicapped hands of GM made me laugh.
Well, that was some unexpected minivan enjoyment.
I admire your parenting tenacity. In your shoes I would have learned all I could about regulating harps and done it myself, or at least messed it up a bit before bringing it to someone else. Granted the instruments I deal with are less complex (various guitars, trumpet and violin). As me about unsticking slides sometime.
And finally, isn’t it great to have a high performance wife? In some situations there is no substitute. Once we went camping at Darien Lake with another family, and our assigned sites were mud bogs. My friend said “now what do we do?” and I said “I’ll tell you what we are going to do, we are going to stay here and open a beer, and our wives are going to go negotiate some different sites” Which is exactly what happened 🙂
M.A.R.I.E. (the Marital Asset and Resource Investment Executive) was able to secure a nifty discount from the rental place.
I’ve thought about regulating the harp myself, but I’ve decided once every five years isn’t worth learning about. Plus, her’s has five very long, very thick metal strings under serious tension. All strings very in thickness from “oh my” to “are you serious?”. When restringing, one has to tie a knot in the string to hold it to the soundboard. There are 32 strings in all.
As Dirty Harry said, a man has to know his limitations.
That’s exactly the reason I don’t tune my own piano!
I’ve also noticed that my newer vehicles seem to suffer from excessive shifting, but I’ve chalked it up to the fact that the transmissions have 1.5 to two times the gears that my 2000 Ford Ranger has.
?
I can confirm that Honda Odysseys (at least the ’06-10s) have grease in their floor anchors – probably comes off of the seat latches but I’ve had the same problem when moving materials that could absorb the grease.
The Odyssey’s floor isn’t very flat either, and has raised bumps for the anchors. This makes shipping things like fridges a pain in the neck as the bumps can damage the metal. Come on Honda/Toyota, after Chrysler has shown you from day one, why can’t you make a flat floor with recessed anchors???
True about the Odyssey’s floor not being very flat — we have a 2010 Odyssey and whenever I haul anything remotely delicate, I put a thick moving blanket on the cargo area floor to keep the exposed plastic and metal pieces from damaging anything. I’d prefer a flatter floor, but it’s somewhat compensated by the fact that it’s very easy to fold the third row down, so I’ve never complained (much) about the uneven floor.
But oddly, I’ve never had any problems with grease.
This was fun to read and interesting, even if I don’t have to drive a harp around…
It seems to me that you really wanted to like this Toyota but in the end, found too many flaws.
Exposed hooks? And on top of that, covered in grease? That’s hardly acceptable. I suppose there’s a rational explanation why Toyota didn’t put some more effort in this – perhaps they figued that most buyers never (or rarely) need to fold down the rear seats and always use the vehicle as a ‘people carrier’, not to haul loads… but it’s still a very cheap move on their part. Although I must say that it doesn’t surprise me; from the experience I have with Toyotas, they are full of such penny pinching solutions.
I’m also not surprised that you found “position of the steering wheel was a little wonky and not the most natural”, and I’d be willing to bet that if you had the vehicle for a longer term, it’s unlikely “that could have changed had I fiddled more with adjustments”.
Years ago, my wife had a 2008 Toyota Auris (European 5-door hatch version of the Corolla) which I too drove on many occasions. I could never find a good comfortable seating position no matter how much I fiddled with adjustments. And everything felt cheap. Not cheap in the sense that something might break (and I admit nothig broke, unlike in this Sienna, haha) but cheap in the sense that everything was designed with crude basic functionality and bottom line in mind. There was absolutely no joy in driving/using that Auris, nothing that would ‘put a smile on your face’. And it was uncomfortable, noisy and underpowered. At roughly the same time, I had a 2007 VW Golf, which cost about the same (or even less) than the Auris but was a much, much better car in every way imaginable.
But the cherry on top in your case would be the sliding door malfunction; now this is really sad. I mean, one should know that if you’re buying Toyota, you’re in most cases buying a desperately bland car, created not so much by engineers and designers but by bean counters. You’re getting an appliance. Or perhaps I’m being unfair to appliances not even that, our current kitchen refrigerator or our new coffee maker evoke more emotional response than Toyota Auris did. But at least, you’re getting rock solid dependability, right? Well I guess not…
Interesting read. Minivans are strange beasts. Functional but odd.
I’m wondering if the lack of of flat load floor has something to do with the Sienna’s available AWD. Even if your rental didn’t have it, Toyota still has to engineer the space for the driveshaft to fit. Perhaps thats why it was hunting gears as well?
Perhaps the AWD could be a factor, but the hooks are what really took the floor off-kilter.
With the downshifting, I’m really thinking its the amount of available torque at the 2000 rpm range, which is about where it (sometimes) sat at 70 mph. I was unsuccessful in finding any torque curves for this engine and doing so would have helped provide some much needed insight.
I take it you are not an engineer. You left the flaps down that are designed to cover the area above the third row headrests when the third row is stowed. All you had to do is flip them over and, voila, flat floor and 4 covered hooks. You also left the second row seats pushed pretty far forward. They are on individual rails and are adjustable fore and aft by about 2 feet; when pushed all the way back the rear of the seat frames almost cover the remaining hooks and also provide limo-like legroom for the second row passengers. Based on your pics, you still would’ve had plenty of space for the harp.
I rented one of these for a road-trip vacation. 17 days and 2200 miles later I knew what our next vehicle was gonna be. It currently has 167,000 mostly trouble-free miles, (door motors were replaced under warranty.)
Jason’s usually pretty handy and at least slightly more engineer-like than your average mom that chooses to buy and drive a minivan 🙂 If it wasn’t that obvious, then it probably wasn’t obvious enough…
How flat is the floor when you REMOVE the second row, i.e. for moving furniture or an appliance etc? Are there hooks/loops sticking up with grease on them?
No, I am an engineer and have had my professional engineering license since 2001. My job title even has the word engineer in it. 🙂
If you noticed, I was rather pressed for time. The seats were arranged for me upon my arrival as the clerk knew the predicament the rental company had put me in. It was pretty much a get in and go situation. Plus, I figured the clerk had seen these more often than what I had.
The second row seats were as far back as allowable without interfering with the harp. I had pushed them a bit further back to allow the rear seat passenger extra leg room. For this, I do give Toyota credit as it’s a nice touch.
As an engineer, the design of these seats are wanting if the intended outcome isn’t obvious. Just saying….
The big takeaway that I got from this article is how difficult it is to maintain a harp. Reading about your daughter’s harp brings me back when I used to go to a music festival in a park in Essex, MA, which sadly is now defunct, where one of the acts was an Irish harpist. I remember spending beautiful late summer afternoons listening to her in the woods. I hope that your daughter continues w/the harp, especially with the lengths you went to keep it in tune (how long has she been playing it, if you don’t mind me asking?)
She has been playing since late ’09 when she obtained her first harp (yes, we have two of them, with the older one being a smaller one).
Her abilities have really picked up in the last 18 months or so. Finding a teacher has been tough; her current teacher just relocated to Ecuador from the Toronto area, so all lessons are via Zoom Meeting. She’s got to the point where she’s really pushing her capabilities and branching out to music beyond the typical student fare. How about Ben E. King’s “Stand By Me” on the harp? She’s learning it.
She’s also been recently inspired by English harpist Amy Turk. If you are curious search for her on youtube; her version of Phil Collins’ “Against All Odds” makes Phil’s version sound rather muted and boring.
Ha! I forgot your daughters harp teacher is in Toronto. You should take an in-person lesson sometime and stop by for a visit.
Edit – Oops I got that backwards. Road trip to Equador sounds like a good time in your old van..
Every Canadian harpist must learn the theme from The Friendly Giant:
Wow, brings back so many memories of my childhood. I used to watch this along with Mr. Dressup, Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers! Ah, the ’70s.
Wow, that’s bringing back the old days! Haven’t seen the friendly giant in years!
Amazing
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/new-cars/curbside-rental-service-2017-toyota-sienna-i-declined-a-bmw-in-favor-of-a-toyota-minivan/#more-263145
Congrats on your daughter. Parenting is a terrific investment. Even if she doesn’t end up in music, she’ll have learnt what effort is all about.
The harp is a truly underappreciated instrument. If you haven’t already, listen to Deborah Henson-Conant sometime and be amazed. Decades from now when this Toyota is someone’s 2040 refrigerator, your daughter will still have the pleasant memory of Dad taking her on this pleasant road trip.
Oddly enough the vehicle that would have been the most practical harp carrier was your van.
I wonder is this just an issue with the fuel cut off switch? Despite being designed to only trip when the vehicle is in an accident, the silly thing trips and cuts the fuel off just by looking at it to hard. Check to see if the switch has not tripped.
I don’t want to harp on the fact that vehicles need to be driven periodically nor the fact that they need to be properly tuned periodically, though on a lower mileage car or truck, you can string out the time between tuning 🙂 ……….Sorry after all the puns yesterday, I felt compelled to continue
An interesting read. That lack of a flat floor would be irritating. My Sedona has the opposite issue, which is little indentations that will catch furniture legs as you load or unload. I have taken to keeping a couple of thick vinyl office chairmats to lay on the floor when all the seats are out/down when I am going to be moving things with legs. As Syke notes, the lack of a removable second row would cramp my style and I am sorry that they went that route.
The constant shifting is interesting (and a major annoyance to me too). My engine has peak torque right around where that Toyota does, but 1) the throttle tip-in is more aggressive (which I like) and 2) I have 2 fewer gears in the transmission (which I also like). I last experienced that inability to stay in high gear in a rented Nissan Quest about 10 years ago. My Sedona is usually quite happy in 6th (high) on the interstate.
My recent Toyota experience comes from my stepmother’s Camry. That transmission aggressively upshifts and the little four is always at a mechanical disadvantage almost every time you need a little accelleration. These 8+ speed transmissions are probably a modern symptom of CAFE and, as with the big cars of the early 80s, drivability suffers with those attempts to get those elusive extra MPGs.
Next time you need a van for your harp, might I suggest one like this?
Still a quite note worthy post
Modern 8-9-10 speed automatics have several “overdrive” gears. Some hunting is inevitable. If you can’t bear it, shift down manually one gear.
Was there a headwind heading to Kansas City. That’s a windy part of the world, no?
The Chrysler Stow-and-Go seats are very thin in order to fold into the floor. They are universally derided for the resulting lack of comfort. There’s a trade-off in almost every minivan configuration.
I had wondered about the number of overdrive years, although there were a few times the tachometer was registering 3500 rpm or so at 70 mph to 75 mph. The driveline deserves credit for being quite smooth as the downshifts were heard more than felt.
There wasn’t much wind on the way out but it had picked up on the trip back east.
I’ve experienced the Stow-N-Go seats. Thin is indeed the operative word.
Sounds like a typical higher mileage rental, hopefully, there was registration and insurance in the glove box, and the tires were not bald.
I too am amazed how quickly the carpet and some other interior furnishing wear out on newer Toyotas since my fiancee has a Saturn with 222K Miles and no holes worn in the carpet. I own an 04 Sienna and this new one sounds like a downgrade. Thank you for the article and I hope she keeps enjoying the Harp.
We recently downsized my wife’s daily driver/our vacation vehicle from a Toyota Highlander to a RAV4. The one difference that was immediately apparent to me was noticeably less cargo space in the RAV4. When I loaded the Highlander I essentially just put the suitcases and other bags anywhere I wanted; with the RAV4 planning and careful selection of what goes where is required. We can still take all of the stuff that we need (want?) for a two week vacation, we just need to plan things a little more thoroughly.
The RAV4 is the third consecutive Toyota that has served as my wife’s driver and all of them would downshift at the slightest incline, if the cruise control was engaged. The first few times the 2005 Camry downshifted from 5th to 3rd at 75 MPH was a little disconcerting but we learned to live with it. I suspect the downshifting is due to how Toyota has arranged the transmission/cruise control interface, in an effort to maintain the set speed. We only got the RAV4 last fall and it has only made one major road trip; for some reason the downshifting did not seem as noticeable as it was in its two predecessors, perhaps it has better sound insulation or something. In any event the downshifts don’t speed the engine anywhere close to the red line so I doubt it is harming the engine in any way.
Hauling a harp to Kansas City–and I used to think I had it bad since my daughter plays the bass…. However, the gift of being able to play an unusual instrument will pay off beautifully. Not only is the music enjoyable, but colleges love this stuff. My daughter is convinced that the rare attribute of playing the bass was a key factor in her admission to WashU. So lots of good will continue to come with the harp, hassles and all.
As for the Toyota, the biggest surprise of all to me was the carpet wear. Even with super-rough rental treatment for 40K miles, it shouldn’t wear through like the crappiest Chevette. I’ll also be interested to see what Toyota does with the next generation Sienna, since this one is at the tail end of its design cycle. I imagine it will be chock full of improvements, and undoubtedly featuring crazier styling, hopefully replete with humongous “bold” grilles, plenty of sheetmetal creases and black plastic slashes dripping from the taillights to resemble runny mascara….
I noticed from your screen shot of Google Maps that Columbia is only a few miles northwest of Harg, Missouri, which is only one letter away from “Harp”.
Great story Jason. I have a lot of miles on these Sienna vans as we have a few in our fleet at work. I have used one of the older ones (about a 2012) for a number of trips so I have put a lot of miles on it. We also have a 2017, which I have driven sparingly. I noticed the newer van has a terrible shift algorithm, that seems to downshift at a mole hill too. It makes it feel underpowered at times. Like you, I noticed that it seemingly revs higher than necesary. Quite honestly, I didn’t like it at all, although I have yet to drive for an extended period.
The 2012 van is way better to drive. Even though it’s got the older lower powered 268 hp engine with the 6-speed, it seems way peppier than the newer van. The transmission shift logic is perfect, and it is overall a good long distance hauler. My only complaint would be the suspension is a little on the mushy side. I have driven it very hard on some back roads and the suspension can’t keep up with the engine performance. FWIW, I usually get about 22-23MPG (US) driving averaging 75-80 mph. I thought it was decent for something that big. I much prefer the Toyota a Caravan, and I even prefer taking the Toyota van over a Taurus on long trips.
It looks like I am not the only one who thought the shift program for the 8 speed was not enjoyable. CR had the same complaint and looks like Toyota has come up with a TSB to update the software.
https://www.consumerreports.org/toyota/2017-toyota-highlander-sienna-transmissions-updated-to-shift-smoother/
Constant shifting would drive me crazy!
My current driver (’08 HHR) has a manual transmission, which was one of its major attractions.
My wife’s ’10 Fusion has an automatic, but doesn’t seem to be plagued by constant shift issues at all.
In fairness to the Sienna, my guess would be that rental minivans lead an even harder life than other rental cars. Consider: Your average rental customer probably isn’t going to want a minivan, especially at a premium, unless they really need the capacity, which is probably going to mean either a large family on vacation or else some series of strenuous chores to which the renter doesn’t want to subject their own car. That means these vans probably end up working pretty hard whenever they’re working.
I helped my daughter buy a Sienna of the same generation. I have not driven it on long trips, so I cannot comment on the transmission, but I have heard no complaints from her family.
The power side doors are a know issue with these, which is why we looked for a base model without them. It is the best people hauler I can imagine. It replaced a roomy, but thirsty and less comfortable Suburban and a relatively comfortable and economical Camry with one vehicle. The one thing the Sienna does extremely well is maneuver in tight spaces. It turns a tighter circle than my Fit. The hidden cost of the tight turning is relatively short CV boot life.
My niece is a harp player and recently bought her first car. Evidently, there’s a web site out there that reviews vehicles specifically for their harp carrying abilities. Based on their recommendations, she ended up with a late model Rav4 (previous generation). I suspect that it would only carry the harp with 2 passengers on board, not 3.