I was able to attend more old car events than usual this summer, and the one common thread that I notice is almost all classics have been modified in one way or another. True originals are and few far between, and are seemingly becoming more scarce as time goes on. Of course there are a lot of people that restore their cars to stock specifications, down to replicating assembly line markings. These vehicles that are meticulous restored to better than new and are typically not driven much if at all. They are also not exactly the type of car we usually see on the curbside.
Lots of modifications here. Aftermarket A/C, modern radio and speakers, modern gauges, steering wheel and shifter are some we see on this ’57 Chevy.
It seems most of the classics we encounter in the wild have some modifications or changes to them. They range from small and subtle things that are obviously not original. People seem to modify their cars for a number of reasons. These include adding desired options or accessories not original to the car, modifying for better performance, modifying out of necessity since original parts are hard to find or too expensive, or to improve the comfort of the car.
There seems to be a large group of people today who love the styling of classic vehicles, but don’t want to put up with the old fashion suspension, brakes, drivetrains and amenities. These so called Resto-mods have become quite popular and range from stockish appearing to heavily modified. There are aftermarket suppliers offer modern suspension systems, rack and pinion steering, some even offer completely modern rolling chassis.
Art Morrsion custom chassis for a C1 Corvette. Note the rack and pinion steering, modern suspension and much stronger frame design.
Kits to install modern V8 engines, such as the ubiquitous GM LS V8 or the modern Chrysler Hemi, are common place. Fuel injection and air conditioning systems are also pretty much become the standard for these types of cars. While it sure makes the car drive a lot better, how much of the original cars’ personality is actually left?
This Duster is pretty typical of what I see in most “muscle car” era cars today.
Most of the muscle car era cars I see today seem to be loaded with bolt on modifications, and often equipped with a far more powerful than stock engine. Stroker engines, headers, MSD ignitions, Holley carbs, big cams, aluminum heads all seem to be common place amongst this era of cars. A lot are setup for drag racing type performance, but it does seem more often these cars are getting some brake and suspension upgrades (for functionality or bling).
Day 2 Camaro. This one has a period correct L88 swap, tires, wheels, and stance.
Another trend for the muscle cars I have seen “Day-Two” cars, where the owners have performed period correct modifications. These owners will modify their cars to represent not how they left the factory, but how many owners would have modified them back in that era. Modifications include things such as vintage engine swaps, wheels, headers, tachometers, shifters and carbs.
A mild 302 swapped into a ’57 Ford.
Then there are owners who do more subtle “stockish” type upgrades that often go unnoticed. They sometimes are done for small improvements, or may have to do with using parts that are cheap and available. It might be something like replacing that Powerglide with a Turbo-Hydramatic 350 because you had a spare one in the garage. Maybe replacing your worn out 289 with a 70’s de-smogged 302, because that’s all you could find in your budget. Or perhaps upgrading from a factory single exhaust to dual exhaust and swapping the points for a an electronic ignition.
Dual exhaust seems to be very common on classics, even though most had single exhaust originally.
A good example of this was Paul Niedermeyer upgrading his ’66 Ford truck from the three speed to the Warner T85 with the R11 Overdrive, as he discusses here. Other examples might be adding a larger engine, heavy duty suspension, a limited slip or factory style power disc brakes on a car original not equipped.
Here’s a ’64 Chevy and even though it’s a six, it’s loaded with modifications.
Of course there are lots of ways beyond what I discussed here to modify a car. And while I am pretty certain that most CC readers prefer their cars relativity stock, I sure most of us have some level of modification that they are okay with.
The seller calls this ’64 Chrysler 300 a survivor, but it has several modifications, like carb, intake, wheels, and even aftermarket steering wheel.
So that brings me to the question of the day? What modifications if any, are you okay with on a classic car?
Really, I’m okay with anything, but what I especially like to see are modern safety / handling features…especially disc brakes on cars that never had them.
My taste does skew toward the stock look, but since a lot of today’s cars admittedly seem so uniform and uninspired, seeing any classic is a treat and I won’t begrudge someone their decision to adorn a hot rod with flames and chrome.
I agree. I’m pretty much OK with anything that keeps old hardware rolling. I know a lot of folks on here don’t like the more extreme mods like donks or low riders, but I still smile and look when I see one go down the street.
I agree, updated safety and performance. Like three point seat belts, Disc brakes all around, aftermarket a/c, and electronic ignition. Fuel injection if possible too. None of which would change the look of any classic from the 50’s on up. A company in Florida makes Vintage Mustangs with factory bodies, and modern underpinnings. Something like that is the best of both worlds.
Actually, Jon, they use a new body on those Mustangs. One company (Dynacorn) builds the licensed reproduction body shell and that company (Revology) builds them to the spec of the new owner’s desires and wallet. No rust, no wear, all brand new.
I’ll third.. or fourth that. I’m not particularly a fan of “resto-mods” and prefer old cars that look like they did when they left the factory, but I don’t mind upgrades that make the car safer or more drivable, like seatbelts, modern brakes, and such.
I’m also ok with replacing parts that were broken with non-original parts if that’s what it takes to keep the car running.
+5
Agreed to the point of “family” performance improvements, and functional safety upgrades…by which, I mean things that the car might have had, had they been available when the car was originally built. For example, I’d have no problem with kitting out a ’52 Hudson Hornet after the fact with four-wheel disc brakes and 3-point seat belts. I’d draw the line at air bags, as I hate the damned things NOW lol, and I wouldn’t dream of replacing that mean Hudson I-6 with a V8. If nothing else, import an Argentine-altered Continental I-6 with the special SOHC heads and performance upgrades that made the IKA Torino a world-class car in its own right. (Chevy ANTHING in a Hudson is sacrilege!) The later AMC Rambler Ambassador tilt column from 1965? – sure, but try to keep the Hudson wheel and horn ring. A Saginaw column? – no way. Keep the manual transmission, but convert it to a four-on-the-tree to keep it looking original while filling that dreadful 2-3 hole. If one had to put in an automatic, put in a 1960s Borg-Warner unit like the Ford Cruise-O-Matic/Rambler Flash-O-Matic.
That’s just one example. I have no problems with modern upgrades to older cars, when tastefully and discreetly done. Jay Leno has turned that into an art at his shop/museum/collection.
Flames and chrome, LOL…to each his own!
Actually, the tilt column in a ’65 Ambassador WAS a Saginaw. Before 1967, all the non GM makers bough their tilts from GM. Ford started making their own in 1967.
Yes. Am looking at this 1970 Pontiac GTO I may buy and I know I won’t stay with the standard suspension or brakes. The thought of being encumbered by only three speeds is not appealing either. But whatever I’ll do will be reversible in case I ever sell the car to someone who wants to experience 20th century performance in the 21st.
Engine work will only come later. I will draw a line at changes to the bodywork or changing for ridiculous size wheels.
The owner of the car is the only one with the right to choose the type and quantity of modifications done to any motor vehicle.But how tragic it is for a rare, all-original survivor to be cobbled up and literally ‘maimed’ forever by a ‘cash-rich’ but ‘wisdom-poor’ purchaser of a classic American car – of any era.
For the little it may be worth, I bought a virtually all-original 1970 Plymouth Roadrunner 2-door coupe from its original owner in December 1976. The sole mod done by the original owner was to exchange the factory 3.54:1 ratio 8.75″ rear axle assembly for a 2.76:1 ratio 8.75″ unit from a 1964 Dodge. The reason for the swap was supposedly so the owner could ‘save on gas’ when he moved from St. Petersburg, FL to Albuquerque, NM at the height of the first gas crisis in early 1974.
I later added Cragar S/S wheels, Goodyear Polyglas GT G60-14 tires, swapped the 383 Magnum for a .030-over ’69 Dodge 440 Magnum, upped the gear ratio to 3.91 and added about 50 horses to the 440 (via a Holley 780, ignition/carb work, street Hemi cam, headers and turbo exhaust, Hemi torque converter/Hemi bands/B&M shift kit and numerous other tweaks including the addition of a rear anti-sway bar) , thus producing a car that would easily run in the mid-to-upper 13’s with ease even with a spare tire, jack and my prized possession -a U S Marines ammo crate that I used for a toolbox!
However, in no way did I cut the fender wells, alter the chassis/unibody, rip out portions of the interior, install a roll bar, chop holes in the dash/door panels/floor or alter the stance of the vehicle (unlike many other teens who would add the ridiculous 50-series tires and jack the rear end up with air shocks, pretending they were the next Pro Stock champ or something). Everything I did could easily be reversed, had I one day desired to return my Roadie to a factory-original state.
When I sold the car in April 1979 during the second gas crisis ( a 5-6 mpg Roadie is hard to afford on $3.75 per hour!) the Teamster car hauler who flew out from New York to buy it said that his goal was to return the car to factory original condition (he was thrilled with my engine mods, but said he wanted the car for a long-term investment and knew it would be worth far more as an original condition car).
Had the car been mutilated – and thus requiring major repairs, I doubt it would have sold for half of what I ultimately received for it.
Just to clarify – are you OK with “maiming” non-American cars?
I understand that you are more a purist, but your first sentence is the gold standard truth. The owner of the car is the only one with the right to choose the type and quantity of modifications done to any motor vehicle. Period. You can do what you want to whatever you own. And the minute that this right is impinged upon based on other’s taste, we all lose. Do with what is yours as you wish. If you want to chop the top, raise it up and stuff a hemi into it, go right ahead. If you don’t, please don’t. You have the right to change or not change what you own. If someone else’s choices are not pleasing to you, learn to live with it. They have to live with your choices, don’t they?
A lot of what I see out there isn’t to my taste, but I’m Ok with all of it. Who am I to define what other people do with their own property. That said, there are certainly things I wouldn’t do if the car were mine. 20 inch wheels and body colour bumpers on ’60s iron as an example. Fender skirts and continental kits on ’50s iron as another. I hadn’t heard the expression “Day 2” before, but it seems to fit with what I like in a classic. Cars like ’57 Chevys, Mustangs, Camaros etc. were defined as much by their hot rod heritage as by how they looked new.
And anyone who’s ever driven a car with 4 wheel drum brakes and a single master cylinder will appreciate a modern braking system. I like to see the old iron out on the road where it belongs, so whatever it takes is good with me in the end.
I’d say on what’s known as a survivor, tires, wheels, brakes and suspension. That of stuff is easily reversible if necessary and increasing the handling and braking on old iron not only makes them better to drive but also safer, which matters if you plan on driving it alot. Electronic ignition and maybe fuel injection I’m ok with for similar reasons. If the original engine or transmission is shot I’m ok with swaps too. I don’t completely begrudge owners who use a clean classic as their blank canvas but I do feel they should be conscious of the fact that they undid decades worth of the car surviving as is to make something that will only fully appeal to them, and then when time comes to sell, then who? How dated will your personal touches look? I appreciate self expression but just simply owning an old car as is says as exactly much about you as restomodding it would to the general public.
On a “restored” car – one that was basically ready for scrap due to body damage or rust – then go nuts. The amount of metal work it takes to salvage some of these cars is so impressive to me I’d never question their choices to build it the way they want, whether it be restoring their dream car the way it was, making a clone, or going pro touring restomod, doesn’t matter. It’s clearly a money is no object labor of love at that point, and at the end of the day it’s an old car that wasn’t turned into a Chinese refrigerator.
I should also say, execution is key for me. Personal taste dictates that certain styles are better than others(period correct day two look >modernized restomod), but there are truly stunning examples in any category. What I dislike are engines that look like a jegs catalog, an interior with seats clearly from some 90s pickup and exterior stripes that look “almost” like how they’re supposed to look, but don’t because the owner was either A. Too cheap to buy the proper reproduction set, or B. Wanted to add their “personal touch” (get over yourself, Foose).
If it says anything, the Camaros I’d pick in the lead photo would be the upper left and the bottom right.
With my own car anything that wears out or needs preventative maintenance I choose to take the path to upgrade, rather than keep original. Need new tires? Get 19″ wheel/tire take offs from a late model Mustang. Calipers sticking? Get the larger discs and calipers from a Cobra. Engine blow up? Swap the SOHC for a DOHC. Trans slipping? Convert it to manual. I can go on and on. But I’ve done very little as far as bringing attention to the upgrades(besides noise*), where most who would notice it probably look and just see an old Cougar with Mustang wheels, even up close, every upgrade is hidden in plain sight
Nice Cougar Matt. I have heard you talk about you car many times, nice to finally see it. Sounds like some nice modifications.
One of my pet-peeves on modded classic cars is replacing the stock air cleaner with some sort of aftermarket chrome piece. I guess I can understand what’s behind it as maybe it’s just not possible to find replacement air cleaner elements for old OEM units. Not to mention if the carburetor has been replaced, the likelihood is that the OEM air cleaner wouldn’t fit.
Either way, it’s one of those small things I notice on otherwise very nice, mostly original classic cars.
This bothers me as well, matching chrome aftermarket valve covers bug me equally.
I agree. TheCorvetteBen on YouTube calls it “bubbafying” or “AutoZoning” a car.
I’m all for “Day 2” period modifications and those that make the vehicle more reliable/safe, but I really have an appreciation for the cars that are close to stock.
Many times, the OE piece is long gone. (Especially on muscle cars…it was often the first thing to go.) If so, a replacement can be very expensive, or nearly impossible to find.
Also, with an intake swap, some OE air cleaners will no longer clear the hood. (I recall a 351W in an early Mustang needs a drop-base to clear a flat hood.)
Call me an old fashioned purist but I am definitely old school about keeping old cars original. It’s part of being the caretaker of a vehicle and a celebration of a time and era that is to be preserved. Otherwise get a new car with all the features and design you want without having to sacrifice a piece of moving history.
It does bother me when I see modifcations to the point where all you have left is the appearance of the old car but the ride of a new car. I know why you do it, I just don’t like it.
That would depend, am fine with the likes of the Morris Minor and Austin A40 Farina for example receiving uprated 1275cc A-Series engines on the basis that both already use smaller versions of the A-Series. The same applies to the MGB using O-Series and M/T-Series engines that were all derived from the original B-Series.
Am still ok with classics receiving modern engines / etc so long as the mechanicals used are somehow loosely related to the original or direct / indirect in-house successors of the original.
Where the line is drawn though are classics receiving mechanicals from either outside carmakers or still in-house yet have no tangible relation at all to the original components used. For example an original Volkswagen Beetle or Porsche 912 that makes use of Subaru Flat-4s due to lack of original options / alternatives would be considered a resto-mod rather than a classic.
My first car was a ’57 Plymouth Belvedere convertible with full power and A/C. The prior owner had switched in the full ’58 Fury 350 Golden Commando , suspension and running gear, no visible changes other than distributor location. My second car (bought the following day), was a ’57 Morris Minor with a MG-A Twin-Cam, ram induction, all MG running gear. This one had rally lights on it, a roll bar inside, lowered and with wider wheels and tires because the prior owner rallied it. I took the amount of lights down to 2 extra, covered the roll bar with matching leather and in all it looked mostly stock, but drove much better.
With that as a start to my driving history, plus my father always working with the dealer to “improve” the new cars he bought in performance and handling, most any car I’ve kept for long I have worked on drive train and suspension, but keeping it visually as close to stock as possible. I’ve sought out factory hot rods, they are much easier to modify the extra amount I want. My ’66 Imperial was a factory hot rod, built to specs the original woman owner desired. High output 440 engine w/ dual exhaust, HD TorqueFlite, and HD export suspension. It also is equipped with full power, dual A/C, tilt and telescope, AM/FM w/reverb, Basically a giant highway patrol car or an Imperial built as real 300’s were in the 50’s and early ’60’s. When I finally damaged the engine at high rpm I rebuilt for torque and power. It turned out to be overkill. It dynos over 600 hp and has taken out 8 sure track rear ends. So, I’m not driving it much til I take care of that. For a car that weighs over 3 tons 0-60 is 7 or less (in first gear), the shift point into high gear is at 125 mph and it barks the tires. Top is over 160, but I don’t do it for long because the tires aren’t designed for it. It will burn the rear tires off for several blocks, but accompanied usually by tire explosion, or the differential being destroyed. I will get it right, the car looks stock. Including pics of current ’57 Ply, and ’66 Imperial.
Those are cars to kill for!
Thank you
Sounds like your Imperial needs a Dana 60, or one of the new super-built 9.25’s.
Most people won’t put up with manual steering and brakes, and most drivers today have no idea how to shift a manual transmission, much less one without synchromesh. Similarly, most people now feel naked without seatbelts, and very uncomfortable without A/C. If people can’t or won’t drive them, most “everyday” classics will end up in the scrap heap when the last of the boomers die off with a garage full of “original” cars without the modern conveniences and safety advances.
E. Olson: I worry about that too. 3 speed column shifted, unboosted brakes and steering Valiant.
I’ve made my own funeral/cremation arrangements, but still what to do about my faithful friend after I’m gone.
At least the 3 speed manual on the column acts as a theft deterrent while I’m still out of my niche in the memorial wall.
Eh, I think what will actually happen is prices will come back to earth when boomers die off. I seriously doubt there will be a mass genocide of “their” cars to the scrap heap. I hate to generalize but wasn’t it mostly the boomers who decided every Mustang is a GT350, every Camaro is a Z/28 and every chevelle wagon was some rare anomaly in the 60s, because Muscle Cars were the most popular segment ever? And not to continue generalizing but the interest younger generations have in those cars most definitely exists, I am solidly one of them, we just don’t have the nostalgic attachment for them in the “reliving our youth” sense obviously, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t an appreciation for objects from the past in how they looked, were constructed, or even how they drove(it’s a more unique experience car to car than just about anything made today, save for EV to ICE). If anything our tastes are far more diverse than the boomers, who inflated the values primarily on the models the jocks had in their high schools, and as far as manual this and that we’re physically more capable than many aged boomers who in some cases converted 4-speed cars to automatics, it’s just a matter of learning, just as always. What we don’t have is the money boomers have been throwing at them for the last 20 years, nor would we pay it if we did since there’s so much more to choose from, because for us cool cars didn’t end after 1974, nor stay landlocked to North America. Just because I don’t want to fund someone’s retirement doesn’t mean I don’t lust over their “investment”.
Amen, brother! At 55 myself, I see the tide shifting, and while I am technically at the end of the Boomer generation, I identify with Gen X more. The old guys are the ones who had the 40s and earlier cars, the ones who started the whole hot rod and collector car market. The boomers are stuck on 2 things for the most part – Tri-Fives and 60’s muscle. Both cool, but both overpriced and to me, overrated. Prices are based on demand, and you are already seeing demand drop and many of these cars coming back on the market. This is going to burst the bubble, and more than one Boomer will be crying over wasting a 401K on an overpriced car purchased “for an investment” that suddenly will be worth pennies on what he paid. The shame is that these cars don’t get used, only driven (or worse, trailered) to a show and shine and then back to the garage. Hopefully, the later generations will see the follies of the others and not fall prey to the same mistakes. We see a wider swath of cars being coveted, and at many different price points, so more folks can enjoy them.
Personally, I would prefer manual steering. I honestly do not see the big deal about power steering and never have.
I agonize over this. I tend to believe that on an antique car of any rarity you should make no irreversible changes, or at least no visible irreversible changes ( with a few exceptions: disc brakes always make sense and there are modern electronic ignitions that hide inside an old looking distributor). Having said that, on my 71 Alfa Spider, I removed the side marker lights because they were ugly. I rationalize that the Euro models didn’t have them and that the car was designed without them… but my car is a U.S. model and should have them. I think what I did is wrong, but…. I think I did the right thing.
I guess I’m confused.
🙂
Why agonize? The car met all federally-mandated requirements when new. You bought it, and tailored it to your taste. YOU own that car, not the government. If they want to buy it for $20,000 or whatever your sale price is, they can do whatever they wish to it. Otherwise, it’s yours. Enjoy. I agree with you about the hideous side-marker lights most Eurobuilders added to their vehicles to meet US spec.
I think you performed a public service, restoring that car to its rightful design. Cheers! 🙂
I would worry about a ticket, or even having plates yanked if pulled over. Also: I would worry about liability!
The post (and responses) I’ve been waiting for. Thanks, Vince. 🙂
I’m typically ok with any modifications. Most classics around here are done tastefully and it really is up to the owner how the vehicle should be.
What I’m not ok with is when someone is selling a car that’s had massive body modifications, poor quality work done or incomplete work yet they ask top dollar.
To the last point, there’s no shortage of numbers matching restorations with poor quality/incomplete work with the sellers charging a premium too. I think a lot of cars like this end up as restomods in an attempt to cover up what was originally a shoddy restoration.
“I think a lot of cars like this end up as restomods in an attempt to cover up what was originally a shoddy restoration”
I never really thought of that. Good point! I lay a little blame on TV shows and magazines too. Some people see them and ask “how hard can it be?”
Well, a lot harder than a half hour of TV makes it look..
When I joined the old Slant Six Club of America, one of it’s stated missions was to just keep them on the road.
On the 63 Valiant Signet 2 door hardtop I’ve owned for 37 years, it came to me with an aftermarket AC [who knows when it went in…. it was first sold in PHX and was living in Yuma when I found it] and seat belts in the front [two different types, but both red].
Over the years it has gotten a 225 rather than the 170 it came with [my mistake, as I always thought the 225 was standard on the Signet] and an electronic ignition.
I also learned that 225 equipped Valiants got five leaf rear springs while the 170 got four.
The AC was converted to R134A and works very well.
I added the chrome spears on the rear fenders from a 64 in the JY decades ago. Barracuda vinyl covered sun visors to replace the barren originals at the same time.
Radials replaced bias ply tires over the years, as bias ply are pretty much only available from specialty tire outlets any longer. 13″ tires are also getting hard to find at local retailers.
Cassette radio from my BFF’s old Duster. Still works. I have the original in a box of parts and one day it will go back in.
It was just an old car when I bought it. Perhaps a year from the JY given the condition of the motor when it was replaced and the rust in the trunk.
Z Bar from a later model adapted to the linkage: all that was available and repro, to boot. Far more stout than the factory delivered.
If I needed suspension work I’d like to use polyurethane for the rubber parts [as I’d like to do for the 86 Calais as well ] if they are available.
A rebuild of the 3 speed manual, though an automatic conversion would be nice, so would a disc brake conversion. But knowing the limitations of the car after 37 years precludes driving it in a manner that would over tax the machinery.
Whatever part that provides longer life and durability than when first assembled is a goal, but just finding a compatible part is more pressing in my mind.
Carpeting is going in on the 6th of Oct. Not original pattern, but red, pre-formed and …. about time. Upholstery will be next.
Foam has been replaced in the front seats. Finally after 30 some odd years, no yellow orange crumbling crap falling to the floor. It’s nice !
Rear seat belts, weatherstripping, front and rear window gaskets are also planned.
As far as modifications I’d do on another vehicle: seat belts, electronic ignition, perhaps a “Melo-Tone” muffler, radials [they made a world of difference in the Valiant’s road capability, as did the electronic ignition:almost like instant on ], perhaps the color, if it needed paint.
Proper gauges if the car has idiot lights, as a complement, rather than a modification. And in a retro style if possible.
Beyond that, it would remain basically the same as it left the factory.
I think there is a little more liberty found in the cars I like [Larks, Ramblers, A Bodies, Comets and Falcons] that would be found in more desirable and expensive vehicles out there.
But if something can’t be found, by necessity, adapting something to keep an old car on the road would be the objective, rather than authenticity.
I never thought Id see the day I could buy re-pro head light rings, patch panels, upholstery, even dome light covers for a 63 Valiant offered anywhere.
3D printing may improve on that. And whoever imagined that when I bought the Valiant in 1980, except for a few visionaries ?
Or service parts from Israel, Mexico and China ?
Just finding something in a junkyard was a score before the internet.
On a car so old, all those modifications, like the cassette radio and AC have become integral to the car, rather than mods, and add their own period character.
Which makes all of it more confusing.
“I never thought Id see the day I could buy re-pro head light rings, patch panels, upholstery, even dome light covers for a 63 Valiant offered anywhere”
I know exactly how that feels. When I had my 73 Chevelle repop parts were near non-existent. Now, 15 years after selling it there’s actually a strong aftermarket. There are at least ten different Collonade groups on Facebook alone!
DweezilAZ, You should do a full story on your Valiant, and would love to see pictures of it.
Jonco: thanks for that. It’s truly been a COAL, that’s for sure.
Below: still an old car with a lot of new parts.
Would be an interesting read.
“But if something can’t be found, by necessity, adapting something to keep an old car on the road would be the objective, rather than authenticity.”
YOU SAID IT! I’m amazed at how much OEM equipment and parts are still available for my 1990 Taurus wagon, but let’s face it – my car wasn’t intended to last 30 years (in two weeks it turns 30 🙂 ) any more than yours was expected to last more than 50 years. Even so, I have had to resort to “imaginative replacements” for some parts. The valve-cover breather hose back to the intake plenum has been unavailable for 20 years. I molded a piece of semi-rigid PVC irrigation tubing around a jelly jar in our microwave, to get the curvature I needed, then cut it to the correct length. Perfect fit. The cable from the dash to the blend door for the A/C-heater temp control? – bought from the local lawnmower-repair place, it’s an original Toro part. Just had to modify the dash-end of the cable to fit the dial control.
Stuff like this makes owning the car more fun than ever. 😀
My math was off, I was off my meds last night. The car’s build date was October 5, 1989 (coincidentally enough, that’s my birthday too) so it’s only gonna be 28. No one cares, probably, but the OCD in me had to set things straight. 🙂
For brakes…how about a bolt-on front disc swap, using 100% Mopar parts? You will, however, need at least 14″ wheels.
https://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/brakes/disc-main.html
I’ve seen those, John. A perfect upgrade. And I also like the simplicity of disc brake design.
They were designed for a 140+MPH B-body police car…imagine how well they’ll work on a 2600lb Valiant!
Seriously: the 11″ (actually 10 7/8″, police Aspen) rotors will clear 14″ wheels. The big ones won’t. Biggest downside: you lose the 4″ lug pattern in front. (I THINK the Scarebird kit keeps it.)
Another disc brake option, though with a slightly-odd mishmash of parts. (Toyota Previa rotors, Chevy Celebrity calipers.)
https://scarebird.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=64&product_id=102&sort=p.model&order=ASC
Of course, the owner has the right to do anything to his own car, and they often do! Most of us buy older cars to try to relive a certain time in our life. Old musclecars were lusted after by Boomers in high school and now that they have one, they want it to be the dream fulfilled. Same with hot rods and Kustoms. Dream fulfillment.
Practical additions like radial tires and seat belts are okay and are usually unnoticed. Electronic point conversions I think are kind of funny, since most of these cars see so little annual mileage. Adding disc brakes adds a lot of security and a few suspension mods will tighten up sloppy original handling and response.
Comfort items like a good radio and especially a/c are understandable, especially if the car will be driven much, I don’t think any of those tricked out old muscle cars see many miles per year though.
I prefer the stock bodywork, trim, and upholstery. I especially don’t like aftermarket steering wheels and those awful aftermarket air cleaners and chrome bits under the hood of a mostly stock car. I now prefer a tasteful, quality restoration. I am so tired of loud exhausts!
At 15 years old, I started buying and selling cars, looking for “keepers” that I would have all my life. My father bought the ’56 DeSoto that I still drive, still original paint and interior. He and the dealer were close friends and Mr Gearhart ordered a hot rod, the 2x4bbl, large diameter dual exhaust, same suspension as a ’56 300, and the larger Imperial brakes, pushbutton PowerFlite, power steering and brakes, signal seeking radio (the Highway HyFy was removed because the only time it could be played was parked with the HD suspension). The dealer also ordered it with air conditioning, that caused problems over the first couple of years and in 1958 the A/C was removed and the2x4bbls were removed and a single Fireflite 4 bbl manifold and carb were put on with a stock air cleaner. It could still top 140mph. Dad could afford a newer car, he looked a couple of times, but the affair with the DeSoto never ended. The day he died of a heart attack, he had blown away a Corvette earlier that day with the DeSoto. He taught me to drift a car and how to handle one and stay alive. He knew it would always be maintained, as I know my son will never sell it, and maintain it. Of all my cars it is his favorite. The only alteration I made is because of my bad back and hip. My nephew helped put cruise control on. I hid the control unit where the lighter normally goes in the ashtray, the unit under the hood is mounted just ahead of the brake booster and looks “normal”. The valve covers are not as bright and shiny chrome as when the car was new, but the entire car has been kept clean and polished since new. The original brakes and suspension are quite capable and I would not change it, I love the feel, It does have radials, which softened the rock crusher suspension a bit.
I would have kept my first car, the ’57 Belvedere convertible forever, but I was in the middle of a six car pack when we were all rear ended. My Electra convertible I bought on my 18th Birthday, just out of high school and have put nearly half a million miles on her, and still drive the Electra most often on interstate trips. The finned aluminium brakes have never faded and work incredibly well as they do on my other Buicks, the Twin Turbine transmission can get the Electra 0-100 in 18 seconds in Drive, and gets 19 mpg and above at 70-90 mph, with handling on par with a real Chrysler 300. I got my ’64 Riviera soon after, then the ’66 Imperial Crown in 1971, at 23 years old. The Riviera was and is a special car from new. It was stripped down and acid dipped to remove weight (total car weight now 3674. Everything in the drive train was built for drag racing. They tried 2x4bbls which doesn’t work, they built a single 900 cfm carb which was optimum for 1/4 miles. I knew about this car and tried to buy it for a couple of years. The original owner finally called one day and ask if I still wanted it. I could tell from his voice what happened and asked, “How bad is it wrecked.” He said totaled. I bought it for $150, stripped it down and was able to repair the original metal with very little filler (didn’t want weight added). The Riviera is exhilarating, and terrifying at the same time. Dry pavement is like very wet slick pavement, and wet pavement is like glare ice. It is insanely fast in acceleration with over 500 ft pounds of torque, and as friends who tried driving it said, It will go every direction except strait.. My ’57 Plymouths are mild, the convert has the original power pack 301 and the sportscoupe has a slightly souped ’59 318. If anything happens to the engines I have a couple of Imperial 413’s sitting here.
So, I’m not looking for cars of my youth, I still have them. I love the different feel of each car. I also have flown across the country and picked up cars for my customers. The usually are near new feeling with very low mileage. In 1980 I picked up a new condition ’49 Cadillac ’62’ series sedan with power windows and seat, gorgeous emerald green, with a tan corduroy type interior, and new wide whitewalls, and 27000 miles. I drove 3400 miles back to California in 4 days, and loved it. the experience of light non power steering and brakes, very easy to drive, and not bad on corners. I’ve driven thousands to original cars and hope they will always be out there. I’ve exposed my son, Nathan to many original cars, and he is only 20, but will be arguing for originality in some cars. I’ll be posting more photos after this of the DeSoto and my Riviera, which I printed in the early 70’s after the bodywork and it’s still looking good.
This was in an article about the ’56
And so was this, the DeS in the hubcaps has been replated in gold.
and the last on the DeSoto
And this is the Riviera
Forgot about the steering wheel comment,If you should happen to get one of the cars, mainly Chrysler products that had square steering wheels, you might want a round one. Most people didn’t realize the dealer could replace it with a round one. After having several Imperials with the square wheel I bought a round one and switched it when I traded cars. Also, most of my cars had chrome or aluminum trim in the engine compartment from the factory, I think I know the ones you mean that are nearly all chrome.
Very nice cars and you are very lucky the Desoto was kept in the family. I wish my dad had kept his lowly Dart which served him for many miles and even survived the 1973 Arab-Israeli war, after being enlisted by the IDF as a staff car, but back then it was just an old car to be sold on.
Almost as hot as the “Catholic vs. Protestant” debate.
People collect old cars for differing reasons–some appreciate the styling, and want to preserve and re-live the “Golden Era”. They tend to be “purists.” Others are fascinated by mechanical aspects, raw power, and “doing their own thing.”
I’m mostly in the first camp. All my cars are very original examples in #2 or #3 condition. Driving my cars is like time travel–I want the original feel of things, the original engine sound, the original look. I like cars that resemble the brochure pictures, or the way I remember them years ago, with “patina” or “honest wear.”
One side will never convince the other. A lot of the add-ons and changes I find tacky and stupid. I think, “Underneath all that JC Whitney crap is a nice car” as I visualize restoring it back the way it should be. I have a saying, “People do terrible things to houses, cars, and their own bodies.”
The driver of that 62 Ford should be more careful. He ran over two trash cans and now they’re stuck under his back bumper. He was probably texting.
I think it really depends on what you want the car for. When I was working, I always had an old car around to play with. I was never interested in showing them, just driving them. So although I wouldn’t mess much with the appearance, I would be ok with upgrading the mechanics to make the car more of a reliable driver. If I had been more interested in showing them, I probably would have started with a higher quality car and been much more particular on what was done with it.
For me it’s just a few things:
– Stainless steel exhaust
– Electronic ignition
– Modern radio (hidden, the original radio stays in place)
– Radial tires
– Halogen headlights
– LED rear/break/turn signal lights. Much brighter and thus safer.
– LPG (I’m looking at gas prices of € 1,60/liter) This mod is easily reversible.
All else should remain stock.
I’ll echo the comments that state that the owner is the only person who had the right to make that call. Some owners are of course more capable than others whether going ‘originalist’ or all-out.
My personal fleet has gone both ways, and my last four DDs, plus my farm truck, have all been modded to some extent or another. My ’64 Beetle was put back stock, but not restored – in fact, it actually had a ’63 deck lid and a ’65 passenger door when I bought it from the son of the original owner, and I left ’em that way. My ’66 Tempest got the ubiquitous SBC swap, mainly because that’s what I had on hand. I left the exterior bone stock, and it made for a cool sleeper.
Love the Bug Ed! I am not a big VW guy, but between your bug and DougD’s, I am getting liking them more and more.
It’s a good question but one that I really can’t answer. We all like old cars for different reasons; who am I to say what someone should or shouldn’t do to their old car? It’s a free country. I don’t judge, but I also don’t look at a lot of “classic” cars. Way to many are predictable and….Boring!
Which of course explains why I mostly don’t go to car shows or cruises, and find my preferred old and still-driven cars at the curb.
To each their own.
Paul you’re lucky you live in the Mecca of old cars that still seeing daily use. In my area, all old cars are hobby cars. And to see them, you need to go to old car events. Other than seeing them on the road every now and then, most live in garages to protect them from our climate. So seeing them curbside is rare. But at least the majority of cars in my area are not garage queens. Most have probably been fixed up and may not be perfect, or super collectible, but the owners do cruise with them when they have the chance.
My main reason for show going is the friends who are there. Sometimes I’ll see something unexpected and it will make the whole day. At Paso Robles one time saw the 3/4 scale ’49 Mercury, really neat.The Imperial, Plymouth and DeSoto clubs we all know each other and often caravan to shows, seeing things we wouldn’t if we didn’t go. At the 1996 Sunnyvale California meet, we headed for Big Basin, a huge area of old growth redwood trees (used in Hitchcocks “Vertigo”) A 1955 DeSoto from Florida broke a rear axle on a corner, everyone pulled over. One of the other members had a new axle in his trunk, another, tools, one had a seal, a floor jack and so on. In 20 minutes the axle had been changed and we were back on tour.
One place I try to go at least 2 times a year is the Blackhawk Museum in Danville, Cal.. It’s fabulous and they change display cars regularly.
For me, it would depend on the car (and probably its rarity) and the modification.
I definitely don’t care about tyres, lights, brakes. I used to read the sort of British magazines which featured beardy men (when beards were unfashionable) who fumed at people using radials instead of crossplies, plastic filler instead of lead-loading… I never understood it.
Once I saw a guy who was fuming about people adding chrome trim rings on base model cars, it was quite funny really.
I like stock, or maybe tasteful Retro-Mods.
I am strongly of the opinion that an owner can do as they please with their car. I have my preferences, but who am I to impose them on anyone else.
I really meant the QOTD to be more about what your personal preferences for your for your own classic car or the hypothetical classic if you don’t own one. I didn’t share my opinion in this write-up because I was curious what other’s would say first. I will share mine later when I have time to type it out.
I don’t have a problem with modifications overall, but I definitely have my preferences. I tend to like modifications that fall within the limitation of the original car, stay mostly era correct, sticking with OEM parts. I also will not do a modification that will cannot be undone and reverted back to stock. I always keep all my original parts. So no fuel injection for me, or modern A/C. Both out of my price range, but I enjoy tweaking and playing with carbs and old ignitions. The simplicity and mechanical nature of old cars is a big part of what I like about them.
My Torino is a good example of the kind of modifications I like. It is mostly original but I have done lots of tweaking to improve it in many small ways. I upgraded the suspension, but that amounted to stiffer springs, the largest factory sway bars, and using a Ford Mustang quick ratio steering box. I didn’t get into altering suspension geometry, not tubular control arms or using coil over setups or anything like that. I enjoy working with a factory design and improving or changing to better suit my needs. In the end the car’s character hasn’t not changes significantly, but the driving expereince has become more enjoyable for me. I have put a few minor modern things in my car, like a modern radio guts in my vintage radio, but for the most part these are small and don’t have any real effect on how the car drives.
That said, I can and do appreciate more heavily modified cars. Even if it’s not my style, I can appreciate the time and effort someone puts into a car to create their own vision, especially when they are a shadetree that does the fabrication themselves. I can also appreciate the nut and bolt restorations that bring cars back to factory correct status. This is a massive undertaking, and hats off to the owners who have the time, money and skill to do this themselves.
Around my area though most old iron is home jobs that are driven. There are very few perfectly restored cars. A lot of them, have things I would never do to a car, but a lot is due to limited resources or money.. In the end, I can appreciate someone is keeping an old car on the road and doing their best to look after it, regadless of their taste.
BTW great comments by all so far!
My old car has a stock 1959 body but all the running gear has been updated so it can be driven at modern traffic speeds like a regular car, since it has been done using factory parts from later models only the expert can tell except for the obvious Michelin steel wheels lack of bumpers and the tubular exhaust manifold, but it worked the car goes, stops and handles much better than the manufacturer ever envisaged but it still looks like a 59 model.
Short answer, to me most any modification from stock has me wincing.
I see car restoration shows like Gas Monkey Garage that just butcher clean old cars. If I were buying a car from them I would pay less because it would cost me more to bring the car back to original condition, like making the the body not scrape the ground, reinstalling the bumper to pass state safety inspection, reinstalling door handles so that doors open, fixing amateur hour paint jobs and poorly stitched/ misaligned upholstery.
There is a reason original cars bring more money than custom ones.
On MY cars, I prefer to utilize OEM parts whenever possible to upgrade/improve. For example, I converted my 70 Charger 500 318 to dual exhaust, using OE Mopar mufflers, and the factory tips, swapped out the steelies and dog dish caps for Magnums, and added a Pertronix ignition. I have the disc brake parts for a future conversion. Everything else is as it left the factory. I don’t care for huge wheels, rubber band tires, and “fart” can exhausts, but I can appreciate any classic car that has survived to this day. I always try to remember that I might not like whats been done, but then, it’s not MY car! 🙂
BTW: The body side molding was installed by the original owner.
Beautiful Charger. I can’t believe there is one with a 318 still in it! I also like the white walls on the Magnums. Looks very period correct.
Plenty had 318’s…and amazingly, some actually had slant six power!
What I meant by that comment was, I was surprised (and happy) that the 318 is still in the Charger. I realize there were lots made with the 318, but with the ones you see today you’d never know.
Just beautiful, my favorite color for years was Chrysler white, my ’57 Belvedere convertible is the only white car I have now. You have good taste for the style of your car.
Excellent.
@ VinceC/LRF/DweezilAZ/John: Thanks for all the comments! 144k actual miles on the orignal drivetrain. I’ve always been a fan of thin stripe ww tires w/ mag wheels. On my first 70, I had American Racing slotted mags with the ww’s and tri bar spinner caps! Never thought that finding 14″ tires would become a problem though! 🙂
To use the top picture of the 4 Camaros as an example, the one on the top left is my favourite, stock looking with nice aftermarket wheels.
I would consider a wheel and tire upgrade as mandatory for me, especially any car with hubcaps or wheelcovers, some wheelcovers look good, when they are hanging up in the shed.
Also any hidden modifications that improve driveability are fine,
I tend to be a fan of base model cars upgraded with modifications listed above, my own 03 Falcon ute started off as a bare bones basic model, over time I have added a few factory options to add a personal touch, The sportier versions of these utes, XR6 and XR8 models had plastic add ons to the bodywork which I don’t like, as I like the pure unadorned look, with a few custom touches.
Of course this is an easy question for me as I will never be in the market for a numbers matching high priced anything.
You might appreciate this as an “upgraded” car… Territory awd system, RTV locking rear diff, various high-series interior upgrades including rear seat with proper headrests, LPG injection, paddle shifters, widened EL/XH bullbar, custom jerry can carrier plus a lot more.
Since I have five cars that would be in this group I would say to the question…not much. The only exception to the rule is the 68 Cougar which has had aftermarket wheels since 1970 along with an aftermarket intake, headers, camshaft, head work and internals since 1974. However, only the valve covers, air cleaner, headers and exhaust sound give things away a bit. All original parts are stored in the garage.
The 65 F100, 67 Park Lane, 68 Mustang and 73 Polara are completely original. Both the F100 and Mustang have drum brakes which will never be changed out but the single pot master in the truck has. The stock 2bbl Holley, in the Polara, has given way to a Motorcraft 2150 because there is not a correct stock Holley left that runs correctly. The Motorcraft lets the 360 run like it should. Almost forgot all have Pertronix which made life so much easier though not an absolute necessity.
As for the Camaros, the two on the left I am fine with, the two on the right I don’t care for and the blue one I absolutely despise in my opinion. Reminds me why I dropped Mustang Monthly after 24 years. Too many resto-mods and high dollar restorations which have no bearing on your average owner of a stock Mustang like me.
Wonderful question, great variety of responses. Clearly there are *nearly* as many answers as there are readers. Car guys have it easy, as (by definition) no production automobile is a one-off; there are typically hundreds or thousands of chances to get it “right” — or wrong. Compare that to those of us who covet a Frank Lloyd Wright Usonian: there is only one of each; all were unique. Three gents here mentioned the right of the owner to do as he wishes. Imagine how we feel when the only Usonian (Wright’s later concoction, a semi-minimalist single-family residence designed for the average suburbanite) in, say, Fort Wayne, is threatened with alteration or even destruction. Houses are as personal a piece of property as a car is.
Of the Camaros Vince shows, the two at left are mostly or completely stock — but also radically different factory versions of the same car. If the black one is almost okay, wouldn’t it be even better with the original version of that wheel and tire ? Okay, substitute an appropriate radial, if they weren’t already using them then — but that wouldn’t be a shabby ride, would it ? I have no problem with updated wheels and tires; that seems to be an acceptable swap even for us purists . . .
In my neighborhood there are a couple of unban housing projects. Young entrepreneurs who are doing okay for themselves appear on the streets, these days, with very nicely restored GM muscle cars, albeit in novel paint colors. They might have the period GM special equipment 5-slot wheel (help me out here, guys), chromed or body color, or something with a Baby Moon and trim rings — but the body will usually be stock. Lots of Chevelle SS, fewer GTOs, and the occasional 442; it makes me smile, as an oldie, to see these cars in such stock condition. Of course there are also Buick sedans with 30″ cartwheels . . .
Good point, but that the object in question is considered “art” does not negate the owner’s choice. A famous object, even a one-of-a-kind piece, is still private property. Could someone purchase a Monet and burn it? Yes, if they really wanted to, they could. That is why museums tend to be public, not private concerns. They conserve, and they intend to keep items as produced with no modifications. But, even museums restore and alter artistic pieces as they see fit.
First of all, It Ain’t My Money. Anyone can certainly do as they please with their own car.
I go to quite a few car shows, and out of the few hundred vehicles at any given show, I’m lucky if 20 of them catch my attention. In this area, it seems to me that most resto-modders make choices based on what’s easiest. Open a catalog, buy parts, assemble. Don’t get me wrong; a well done resto-mod will catch my eye based on type of vehicle and workmanship.
I can understand the rationale- “I want to be able to drive it”- but most of them end up being cars you wouldn’t want to drive anyway for fear of chipping the paint or taking a rock in the unobtanium windshield. So when you see most of these cars on the road, they’re either on the way to a car show or on the way home from one. My hat is off to the handful of classic car owners who actually use them.
I prefer my classics to somewhat look like they were meant to.
Oh, and if I see any more “fake patina”, or the chrome “Streetrod” or “Hotrod” script, I may swear off car shows forever.
There’s also the other category you see sometimes, the car that was modded way back in the day and then somehow survived in that state to today. Remember, all these classics at some point were “just an old car” and it’s not like people were throwing a fit when we were modifying our rusty 10-15 year old 1980’s rides back in high school. I’m not a big fan of heavily modified cars, but I’m much less likely to cringe if it was done back before the car was really considered a classic, and often they can be interesting period pieces depending on how they were modded. It’s also interesting as it seems very few cars seem to survive in that state.
I actually find those the most interesting. There was a 1970 Mustang fastback for sale at the lone cruise night I attended over the summer with what remained of a very 70s paintjob, wide turbine wheels, slapper bars and a hurst T handle with some of of the gold colored flocking material they came in still in tact. A lot of those aftermarket parts can be equally as interesting and rare as the cars they’re bolted to, and in either a restoration or a restomod the cars likely endure if sold, are probably quickly discarded.
With my own cars, if there is an upgrade available when doing a repair anyways I’ll go with it. Jetta needed front pads and rotors, original rotors were solid. GTI/GLI vented rotors and pads were a direct replacement and cost was only a little more, so went with those parts. When the rear main failed and soaked the clutch, an 8 valve GTI/GLI clutch assembly bolted right in (solid center disc, stiffer pressure plate springs). 24 years and 200k miles still works great, just takes a little more leg muscle. Swapped the 175/70/13 wheels and tires for 185/60/14 wheels and hubcaps from a ’94 MK3 Jetta. Needed tires and they were take offs from a (then) new car that got custom wheels/tires, and cost me less than a new set of 13 inch tires. Still have it’s original wheels.
The 70 C10 got a 4 speed trans, 11 inch clutch, overloads, electric fuel pump, bigger mirrors, wider rear rims and tires, etc. to help it cope with hauling and towing heavy loads, and shoulder belts for a little more safety.
But whatever you want to do with your own property is your own business, so it doesn’t bother me. Well, maybe if I saw a ’48 Tucker with a SBC, chop top and hydraulics….
You had me in complete agreement, until I reached the Tucker…that was nauseating ~
Have you seen the IDA Tucker replica. The work is immaculate and you can duplicate an original…or…you can have full custom paint and the car on the ground, looking like the suspension collapsed.
Since it’s a replica, why not?
Theres room in the hobby for everyone. Stock restos, customs, hot rods, lowriders, slammers, street rods, street machines, restomods, Pro Touring, Pro Street, etc, I like and appreciate them all. Plus like everyone says, its the owner’s car to do with as he sees fit.
Personally, I like the Day 2 and street machine look for musclecars. No one left them stock back in the day and that’s the way I like to see them preserved, which is how I remember them on the street. Unless its a true low mileage original car, I’m not much interested in a stock OE restoration. Plus I like cars that are actually driven and like Vince said, those are cars that are not typically driven anymore and have become pampered show poodles. Not my thing.
My Road Runner was a street/strip car back when it was new so I honor its past by leaving it the way it looked back in the day. It drives the Mopar resto guys crazy as they are always telling me to put it back stock but then it would become just another restored Road Runner.
Dan, between this and your police cars, you have some pretty awesome machines! That’s one nice Road Runner, and I think (not that it matters to you) that the mods looks great. That’s closer to how I remember these cars when they were around.
thanks for compliment Vince, I enjoy sharing them here. Whenever I can find some spare time, I plan on sitting down and writing COALs on them but in the I love your articles, keep up the great work!
Said it before, Ill say it again: That RR of yours is dialed in proper. I’m with you on the Day 2 look. Especially on old school cars, the mag wheels, fat tires with RWLs is what sets them off. The current trend of putting upsized wheels with non traditional designs on older cars…um yeah no. I don’t even like those on modern cars, let alone classics.
Unfortunately, there is sometimes no real alternative. I swapped my de Ville to 17″ wheels, simply because there are really no 15″ performance tires left.
I’m pretty much okay with anything mechanical/reversible__I even accept money to make those modifications on customer cars (OKAY, the trunkfloor/differential mount reinforcements I do aren’t really reversible, but NOBODY wants their differential dragging on the ground; there is one method of doing it for the owners that want 100% stock APPEARANCE). Any deviation from stock though, should be an improvement (in acceleration & handling, preferably) and make the car more usable__to make you WANT TO use it, exposing it to more people who wouldn’t otherwise be at C&C events, club shows, etc.
I don’t care much for wheels that are too big/tires too small, or some of those wild & crazy “aero-kits” that were popular on European sportscars a decade ago (like Veilside, for example) but I never picked a fight with anyone because they had them or liked it.
I love most all cars, but more than that, I’m infatuated with The Details; doesn’t matter if it’s an accurately restored Full Classic, a pure-stock Muscle Car, a Resto-Mod or a Rat-Rod; I’m studying the car (motorcycle, truck or…?) for what it took the owner/designer/builder to achieve the end result. I’m looking at all the steps they took, the things they think that 98% of people seeing it will never notice or appreciate.
My own cars (’57 Healey, ’99 M Coupe, ’99 M & ’01 M Roadsters) ALL cross the line somewhere, but in each case (except the Healey which does have some cosmetic differences) you’d have to lift the hood, peer into the fender-wells for suspension/brake upgrades, or check the mufflers to see the non-stock parts.
It IS the owner’s prerogative, but let’s hope they have the good sense to keep any stock parts they remove during their personalization process, and pass them along with the car.
One last point, and this pertains to the long-term owner/collector. In the case of my Austin-Healey, when I bought it in 1978, it was worth less than a tenth (< 1/10th) of its value today, plus they made about 80,000 of them (over a fifteen-year period) so hardly a one-off, but even then, there were "old guys" in the club Healey club that derided me for autocrossing it with its attendant changes, rather than keeping it pure. Now I'm an old guy, but with a more tolerant attitude!
Some of my old cars have canister type of oil filters. I hate these things because they are so messy so I replace them with adaptors so I can use spin on oil filters.
Their ride, their choice. End of story.
My 1961 Willys Wagons will be turned into a single vehicle. I think there’s enough unoxidized steel to make something of it. Once came sans motor, the other saw its I6 disappear around the same time Jimmy Carter departed the White House. And it’s stuck. So, looking over at my parents’ old Ford Explorer that after 21 years finally has a frame rusting away. Inspiration strikes.
Stinky Brock (or his brother, as my grandson has affectionately named them) will be carrying an OBDII Ford 302. Picked up the Ford T18 and NP205 last week. The 8.8 with disc brakes will go under the back. A Cherokee Dana 30 will go up front. Decades newer in reliability and stopping power. I’ll be able to go to the drive in, nearby car shows, or work without dealing with 5.38 gears and four wheel manually adjusted drum brakes at 60 MPH.
Headlights will get modern LEDs in the old school buckets. It’ll be noticeable, but usable at night. Might get a radio. Or not. And since I’ve already got the AC setup with the Ford parts, I might round it out. Hell, heater/defroster was optional back then, so a full HVAC system is only slightly inappropriate.
But, yeah, much better than the 1945 design, however still similar enough to retain the ‘feel’ of the vehicle.
Oh, yeah, three point belts. I really care not one whit for the opinion of someone who would complain about these additions.
Heck, that sure wouldn’t be the first Willys to end up being powered by Ford! Put up some photos and do an article when you’ve finished the conversion. I’d love to see that!
One of them has an ancient 289 in there. I haven’t even thought of freeing up that mill 😀
A perfectly sensible upgrading, says I. I remember those well from growing up in Israel in the 60s (they were assembled there by Kaiser-Illyn in Haifa) and with the original drive train everyday driving would not be pleasant, what with 70 MPH top speed, drum brakes etc.
I would be amazed if one hit 70 on a flat road, while simultaneously being terrified.
I should have edited the original post. The Carter/Reagan era loss of motor resulted in a 289 being swapped in. I haven’t checked the vintage or even whether or not it spins. It has some go fast parts on it. Doesn’t seem wise.
The red one pictured above was the original one I bought. The green one was purchased for parts. Now the roles are going to be reversed.
Not pictured is the Explorer with 5.0 that will be donating much running gear.
I’m an old guy now, and I have a definite love/hate thing going with older muscle cars(The only old cars I honestly care about). I don’t mind “tribute” cars at all. In just about every way, they are better than the 318 Charger or Satellite they were originally. I hate the giant wheel look, and really dislike cars that have had wheelwells enlarged to make then fit. My car has 20″ wheels and I wish it had come with 18″ ones. Mostly for looks, but also because the tires are cheaper and ride better. And 18″ wheels are usually a lot lighter than 20″ ones are, too. I hate the two-tone “Foosing” of a lot of older cars that have had some body mods. In general, I want cars to be monotone in really potent colors. Stripes are fine, painted on is great, as long as they look like the originals. Not a fan of lightning bolts (As seen on a Detroit area Charger I saw in Ann Arbor a year ago), gold anything, and I really dislike “dainty” wheels, which to me are the ones with many thin spokes. The car companies seem to put them on any high level model, without the option of keeping the lower level wheels that always look better. I always prefer five spoke wheels that look “strong”. Always, no matter what the car/truck. Six are ok, but any more than 7 just looks wrong to me. I hated the old turbine wheels. A neighbor had some on his ’77 K5 Blazer, and I always thought when I saw it, “All the wheels he had to pick from, and he got those?”. Even the white or black wagon wheels (Don’t know the actual name for the stamped steel painted wheels a lot of trucks came with as an option) looked a lot better. My ’77 Power Wagon had black ones. They were strong and cheap and easy to touch up.
Did you say that you “hate the giant wheel” look, but run 20″ rims on your own car?
I would never run rims larger than 15″ on anything made before 1990, exceptions being some trucks or exotics.
I took his comment to mean that his modern car came with them (self-proclaimed “old guy”) so maybe a 7-Series BMW, perhaps an X5 or an S-Class Mercedes?
Or a Charger, Magnum, 300, or late-model truck. My 2007 Magnum had 18’s, with 20’s optional (and standard on SRT8s.)
Pre 1967 vehicles that are driven regularly really should get a dual-circuit brake conversion, having sprung a leak in a brake line on my ’65 ‘Cuda I am speaking from experience as losing your brakes is a terrifying experience. That said, numbers-matching classics should probably be left alone IMHO. Which means that for non numbers-matching cars, anything goes. My 1953 Chevy panel truck has a 6.0L LQ4, 4L80E AT, Fatman II front end w/power R&P & disk brakes, Ford 8.8″ rear end, dual A/C, Ford Explorer buckets & patina out the yin/yang… (hood is there, just not installed in photo, is installed now)
People do some worrisome things with their rides. Not tossing on a dual circuit master is one. Going without safety belts is another. I can only condone either in a concours resto.
I’m a bit torn on the collapsible steering column. For one, I’m not sure how much shade tree engineering it would require.
That makes little sense, George. Let’s say I own a 1964 Ford Falcon 2-door Standard Series sedan — the cheapest of cheap Falcons — and I have left the hydraulic drum brakes in place. → How is it possible I could do a ‘worrisome thing’ with my ride when I’ve actually done nothing but leave the car’s original equipment alone?
The only ^upgrade^ I’ve done to the Falcon in 28 years is have radial tires installed on it instead of bias-ply’s. I can’t think of anything else I’ve added. I’ve replaced a few things; the optional side-view mirror broke and blew off in 2011. It landed in the back seat. Had to procure another of those.
Believe it or not, automotive equipment and standards have improved over the past 54 years. Improved equipment is trivially available and minimally disrupting that will make your vehicle safer not only to you and your family, but (more importantly) to me and everyone else on the road.
It also depends on what the roads and traffic are like in your area. If all you expect to drive on are straight roads with few gentle curves and/or sparse traffic, yes, those brakes would suffice. I live in an Alpine country with a number of winding mountain passes, and let me tell you drums and stock 64 suspension will get old very quickly here. As for single circuit brakes, well to me this is a no brainer – particularly as all the bits are available for little money to convert.
Interior…
For a car that I would own: stock.
I’m not terribly offended by Day 2 mods.
And I guess I’m agreeable to safety upgrades such as seat belts and disc brakes, if it’s a daily driver.
Vehicles with Little Trees air fresheners should be required to only smell like Royal Pine. They only smelled like Royal Pine years ago and they should only smell like Royal Pine today. There are too many smells available today. I remember Royal Pine contributing to my car sickness as a youngster and I want today’s kids to experience car sickness the way that I did.
Honestly, I think your typical late 60s muscle cars have to be the absolutely least interesting classic cars out there, period. Desirable or valuable sure, but interesting?
I’d spin my neck for a Hillman Imp or an Alfa Montreal, or even some giant Vista cruiser, but a 68 Camaro? I’ve seen 14,000 of them.
To answer the question, I much prefer period stock, ‘day two’ period builds, and period built racers/rally cars by a long shot, while at the other end resto-mods are a cancer upon the classic car world.
It’s a free world though, sort of, so do what you want with your own car while you still can.
Reading through all the comments has been really neat!
It made me realize that there is one thing that annoys me past the “it’s the owners car and dime” point. Cloned cars.
How many simple and solid plain jane satellites, LeMans, or whatever have been turned into fake roadrunners or GTO’s ?
As somebody mentioned above, every show you go to you can see a real period muscle car or pony car.
When I can go and see a 1969 Camaro that was bought as a plain jane daily driver by someone’s Grandma in 1969 and still IS that way, that will catch my eye much more than a wanna be z-28.
I went to a Ford meet a number of years ago, and amid all the real (and fake) Shelby 350GTs and 500GTs, the Mach1s and the Pony interiors sat this plain-jane 1965 notchback surrounded by a swarm of gawkers. I eventually got close enough to see why – it had a 200 or 250 CID I-6 under the hood with a column-shifted Cruise-O-Matic, a front bench seat and a blank plate where the radio would have been. No signj of power brakes or power steering. This was the opposite end of the Mustang spectrum, territory that few visited. I can see a secretary or schoolteacher early in her career having bought this, basic transportation with a bit of flair to it.
Hate to be “that guy” again. but no Mustang in history ever had a column shift.
I lean to the ‘stock with upgrades’, but when it’s not my car or my money, it ain’t up to me.
I’ve done what I regard as sensible upgrades to my ’69 Skylark. Front disc conversion,15″ wheels ( still Buick), faster steering box,and some suspension upgrades. An after market stereo as well, and 3 point retractable seatbelts, and halogen headlamps.
That’s all I plan on doing. It will never handle/brake/steer like a modern car, but its a hell of a lot safer now. Nothing I’ve done involved cutting metal, and everything is reversible. That said, I would like a 69 Camaro with a modern running gear & comforts.Old school looks, modern car safety/ perforrmance/ handling/ braking. Its just that I’d never do that to a matching numbers survivor.
I’m OK with mechanical mods to a point. Appearance is a matter of taste but to me the sometimes-odd colors and fussy details are part of what makes an old car different from a modern one.
The eventual color of my Willys Wagon is a point of contention around the house. I’d like to go with one of the period correct two-tones. My wife isn’t the biggest fan, preferring modern colors.
My DD is a red Focus. Why red? Because it’s not black/silver/grey/white like 90% of the vehicles out there today.
At my age the far side of my wheelhouse view starts around 1965. Goes to about the early ’80s as far as hobby cars go. That means anything I’d consider has no problem getting the down the road safely today. Well, maybe not a Pinto MPG but then I’d never want one anyway. Other than ’65-66, everything in that range already has a double brake system, and many already have disc brakes, at least in the front.
I place myself firmly in the camp that wants a time machine. I want to relive the period in which the car was built, warts and all. However, I would take kind of of a combined “day 2” plus “cutting edge for the time” approach.
Pertronix ignitor for a pre-’75? For sure. Radial tires, of course, in a stock or plus-1 size. Good shocks. Sway bars if not on it already. Same for discs. Good shocks. Lamp upgrades.I remember my next door neighbor as a kid bought a new ’68 T-Bird and soon had Michelin radials and Cibie Flame-Thrower lights on it. Things like that.
I remember an early 80’s Mustang Monthly feature, an innocent looking ’65 Coupe that had the full ’65 Shelby treatment. Magnum 500s were the only tell .
Adding factory options is cool with me, unless the car is so clean and low mileage, and documented, that it would detract from the value.
A factory FM stereo radio with factory looking speakers.There are vendors who will upgrade these with analog Pioneer Super Tuners, better amps, and now, USB and High Impedance Inputs. One of those mini-FM transmitters that goes thru your phone and Bob’s your uncle. A modern radio in an old car it a pet peeve of mine, looks like crap, as does a modern unit mounted under the dash.
Hell, if I had something like a ’75 Granada I might just restore the emissions gear to
give it that wheezy, cold blooded chronically stalling character. If nothing else, to preserve history. Just to show people how bad it was.
Or I might take the opposite tac and make some kick butt but low budget mods, but always undoable. Picture me finding this clean Maverick at an estate auction and giving it the full-boat ’65 Shelby treatment under the skin, motivated by a salvage grade but warmed up 5.0 HO FI and a 5-speed. Just some wider steelies for those dog dishes. Oh, it would have working AC and a factory FM.
My preference is original or restored cars. Modified, customized or hot rod isn’t really my thing. If it was purchased with few original parts on it then I thinks that’s ok. To try & put a vehicle back to original can be a costly & daunting task. But I know a guy who bought an all original 36 Ford pickup. First thing he did was take the body off the frame & kept the body & sold the rest. He made a hot rod out of it. Hate to see that. But that’s just me. Personally, when I bought my car ten years ago (from the original owner), I told him I would only repair or restore as needed & that I wouldn’t modify it in any way. The only concession I made was going from P205/70R14 to P215/70R14 tires. I wanted to stay with the original Uniroyal white letter tires & they only made them in 215.
Personally, I hate “hacked” cars. Foose, Trempanier, and the like make me want to heave. (Offhand, Trempanier’s “Sniper”-a 1954 Belvedere, though retaining no factory parts except a heavily-hacked body-was made from a 40,000 mile survivor.)
On my 70 Torino Brougham with a 351, A swapped out the single exhaust for dual, added a shift kit to the FMX automatic trans, and the only mod on the exterior was the add of GT taillights. It seemed like something the factory should have done because, well, Brougham. I added the Torino badge to the center of the light panel to create a more “factory” look. Interior is bone stock ,as are the wheel covers, but the tires are radial.
Modern brakes, suspension, fuel system. I hate carburetors, points and everything that went with them. Electronic dash? Maybe, if it looked stock.
Other than that, the car must look factory – no painted bumpers that were chrome, nor non-stock-looking interior.
Please – no rat engines either. If I had a 67-69 Camaro with a 250/Powerglide, I’d be very, very happy!
Unfortunately, I will most likely never get the chance to find out what exactly I would or wouldn’t do. I can just dream…
My hot button is cheap no-name tires, especially if they have raised white letters. OK, period correct BFG T/A’s or Goodyear Polyglas are fine, but mismatched made-in-China tires on a $30000 investment is wrong. I know some older tire sizes are hard to find, but so are many of the other parts …
As for the
The only modifications to older cars that are acceptable are safety upgrades (brakes, suspension, steering, fuel systems), that don’t mar the visual asthetics of the vehicle.
One thing that really irks me is to see a beautiful old classic car that still has its original interior and some bozo decides to carve huge holes in the door panels, kick panels and rear parcel shelf to install big ugly speakers! Not to mention a trunk full of even bigger uglier subwoofers and amplifiers overtaking the entire trunk.
Not into the faddish stuff… ripping out the original dash cluster, TV-screen size rims, etc. Just using the shell and building a car in it. Other than that, have fun. Love the Day 2 Camaro posted. Don’t mind the mods that make the car more viable in modern times.
… I do know there is something about an unmodified car making it to this age, though. Kudos to whoever keeps the car all original.
I’m not big into visual modifications, and I prefer any such mods be tasteful. A chopped, eggshell blue 1940’s Mercury with a modern interior is too much. I appreciate period mods, and I am very big into upgrades. For example, throwing a 5.0 fuel injection system on an older 302 is something I’d enjoy. Also, I like to see strange engine swaps. Someday I’d like to see an old Ford Falcon fitted with a 3 cylinder from the Fiesta, or a BMW E30 with one of those new modular engines fitted.
How about an E30 BMW with a Buick 3.8 Turbo V6? Hartge, the BMW tuner, did it back in the late 80s.
If the modifications improve safety, handling and personal comfort, not a problem. I am also OK with what you call the “Day 2” modifications to make it look like a period-correct custom car, as well as the new drivetrains/suspensions etc. installed under the body of an older car. The Donks with those humungous rims I find horrible.
In the Lincoln and Continental Owners Club (LCOC), we are about preservation of the original car and we judge accordingly. However, we’ve recently allowed halogen headlights, radial tires and of course, seat belts (years ago) with no point deduction, because of safety issues and the desire to encourage carts to be driven to the shows.