(first posted 8/31/2015) There’s really not much to say about this scene other than to ask you to picture the happiest, geekiest 38-year-old man in the world hooking his Dirty Dart up to the old Sun Machine. It’s Christmas in Michigan whenever I pull it out of its dusty corner.
There is no practical reason for my having a Sun oscilloscope from the ’70s. It doesn’t do much that my portable Autolite primary oscilloscope and my ’70s Craftsman engine analyzer don’t do (in combination), but it does it in such a big, flashy, colorful, happy way that I can’t help but pull it out every once in a while, even when everything’s running pretty well.
Pragmatism is not necessarily a hallmark of my personality anyway. On the other hand, the oscilloscope only set me back $50, delivered, from the local Ford dealer, where it had been collecting dust for decades. Since I’m a man with points distributors, I said, “why not?”. If nothing else, it’s got the look.
The reason I pulled it out is that the Dart has a very light, variable miss. The scope tells me there’s too much timing variation between cylinders, so it’s probably a slightly worn distributor. Therefore, I’m switching to electronic. I already have an electronic distributor lying around, but it’s the age old question: Mopar or HEI? This has been discussed here before, and I know that HEI is superior, but I decided to order a Mopar Orange box kit from Jegs, because it has the whole harness I’ll need along with the ignition box and correct ballast resistor. Simplicity of installation won the day this time out.
Another fun feature of the Sun machine is its ability to kill cylinders individually (or the whole engine) at the push of a button. As a result, I discovered that the Dart’s weakest cylinder is number four. That may be, however, a result of the distributor. We shall soon discover the answer.
Speaking of the Dirty Dart, I just bought a set of 15″ steel wheels for it, with matching tires. It looks infinitely better with those more aggressively sized hoops filling up the wheelwells. Freeway revs have dropped by nearly 500 RPM, and the speedometer and odometer are now nearly accurate. I also replaced the axle bearings and seals, ball joints, and shift shaft seals so far this summer.
It’s been a fun evening fiddling with two of my flashy, extraneous toys. After all, there’s nothing better than exhaust smell on your clothes, so if you get a chance to buy a huge Sun machine, do it, by all means.
A VERY kool old skool tool. The Dart DOES look good with those oversize sneakers on it.
Pragmatism schragmatism. That garage is f’n awesome!
Wow, what a warm and fuzzy feeling these images give me! Love the look of incandescent bulbs in the Sun machine, and it’s great that it earns its keep. All those other cars make this look like one of those car nostalgia paintings directed at people born in the 40’s.
Your dart hits emotional notes for me, as well; I had a nearly identical ’65 in the ’90s, though it was a 270 model. It had “California emissions equipment”, which consisted of a flexible tube running from the air cleaner intake to an intake box on top of the left fender well. Presumably, the air was colder over there….
I also mounted bigger tires and wheels. I took 4 nearly new ones off an ’80s Cutlass, mounted them to 14″ wheels and fashioned new wheel covers by mounting Dodge ornaments on the centers of the Olds caps. The experiment failed though, as the those tires made the Dart very hard to steer, and it tended to wander at speed. Probably needed different front end specs with the change. I ended up reverting back to the originals.
The 225 Slant Six in that car pulled like a locomotive. What an engine.
I hated the 13″ tires & wheels that the Darts and Valiants came with stock. Even when Dart went to the bigger body in ’67 they still came stock with 13″ tires and wheels. I converted the ones I had to 14″ but it was more expensive and a pain to find the small lug pattern wheels in 14″. I never had a problem with steering with the lager tires and wheels installed. Put over 60,000 miles on my ’67 Dart and 70,00 on my ’69 Valiant. The Valiant I had in the late 80’s and put on a set of used radial tires that ad about 1\2 tread and got 40,000 miles out of them. I bought the car for $400.00, had the front end rebuilt for $225.00, installed a set of air shocks for $50.00 and the 14″ wheels and 2 sets of tires for $150.00. Drove it 70,000 miles and sold it for $400.00. Low cost of ownership.
That garage is cool, and something about the way you shot the pictures give them a great late afternoon “glow” – it just looks like fun messing with that machine. A whole new Curbside angle! Your neighbor with the Traverse (?) must be wondering what you are up to now…
I’ve lived here 10 years…my neighbors are used to it. They’re good neighbors, actually.
Awesome! I have no idea how those old Sun machines work, but could surely figure it out. No matter, because just having it is cool as all get out.
Wow, an early 50s GM, two 60s GMs, a Ford and a Mopar – you certainly stay out of a rut. What this garage needs is something from AMC or maybe even Studebaker, so that you can bend your mind even further on strange and diverse ways to engineer and build a car. 🙂
…needs a Henry J or a Willys-Overland Aero Ace
I have a not that quite old school analyzer, from Mac Tools, that can do the drop cylinder test. It is in simply a blow molded case, and I can take it anywhere. Still used by marine tech’s
You can take this one anywhere too. It has wheels.
🙂
I remember playing with one of those Sun machines during my 3 years of high school auto shop classes. That was the only class I looked forward to in school! That is a nice variety of cars you got there. I wish my garage was two deep like yours!
Aaron ;
_VERY_ nice ! . your garage and dedication .
I foolishly left my old Sun machine in the VW shop when I closed it up 31 years ago….
In spite of my GM Factory & Dealer Training , I never quite got how to read the oscilloscope but the rest of it was *very* helpful indeed , I found the cylinder balance test to be useful and a real time saver .
Now that you know it’s # 4 hole , do a HOT valve adjust then a compression test followed by a cylinder leakdown test , some where in there you might find some thing .
Chrysler retained the solid valve lifters that requite periodic HOT adjustment until the 1981 model year , failure to do this important adjustment sent a lot of perfectly good MoPars to the Junk Yards .
Electronic ignition is always wise , even if not HEI do open up the spark plug gaps to at least .045″ and feel the increased power , easier starting cold or hot and vastly improved idle along with increased fuel economy .
FWIW, having the lobes on the dizzy mis machined by a degree or three wasn’t unusual back when your car was made and it greatly affects drivability .
Your cars and Garage are wonderful , I’m envious .
-Nate
I’ve actually been through the valve adjustment, just last year. I set them a bit loose because the engine was hot, but not freeway for an hour hot. .012 intake, .022 exhaust, just because I’d rather they ticked a bit than be too tight.
Aaron ;
Correct because : ” a noisy valve is a happy valve ! ” .
Obviously this is from before ‘ juice ‘ lifters .
https://www.kenporterauctions.com/vehicle_listing_temp.asp?auctionid=367&searchval=Automobiles
-Nate
You’ve been appointed the Official CC Garage. Beautiful, in more ways than one.
Way too cool. A few of your photos shots appear to be from a stepladder – the angle looks like a television shot returning to a scene about to start in your garage.
I took the pictures from the side steps. 🙂
The HEI is overrated and the drop in units for non-GM vehicles are made in China and often not the greatest quality. I know a few people who have bought them for their IH only to have the module, rotor or coil fail in fairly short order. The factory Mopar modules were more reliable than the factory GM HEI modules back in the day and there are a lot of bargain basement aftermarket HEI modules out there that are junk. So yeah sticking with the Mopar kit and the nice factory look wiring is what I would do too.
The Sun engine analyzer is definitely a very cool tool to have around to play with. It has been several decades since I last had one available to play with and other than the space they take up I’d love to have one around.
Describe this ‘orange box’ kit please? I’m having a similar ‘engine miss’ issue with my ’63 Valiant and hadn’t heard of these folks. One used to be able to go to a junkyard an pull a perfectly serviceable electronic distributor assembly and the harnesses from a late model Dart/Valiant to convert an earlier car…. But those days are gone.
Ever since they closed up the old Eichlin factory, I’ve not found a satisfactory set of replacement points. Not to cast disparaging remarks anywhere, but I’ve never understood how it made economic sense to start making points in China (or Malaysia, or ?) for systems that went out of production in 1973. Ah well. I suppose I should prowl the parts vendors at Hershey this fall for suitable old stock replacements.
Here’s what I just bought and installed about 10 minutes ago. It took me about two hours from start to finish and I had to run out and get a connector. I also had a hard time finding a few tools today. 🙂
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/40800K/10002/-1
No fair! You didn’t tell us how it runs!?! 🙂
It runs great! It’s not 100% perfect (they never are), but considering that it has an early emissions Holley 1945 on it, I think I should wash off my hands and leave the hood closed.
It’s my last day before going back to work, so I took a 15 mile bike ride with my dad on my ’67 Schwinn Typhoon and messed around out in the garage. Fantastic day so far!
Wow wish you were closer I’d bring the Hillman over I’m still at the primitive feeler gauge and tuning ear stage, car runs silky smooth though but an analysis could be useful.
I used to see these machines in service stations during the 1970s and wondered what they did, and much later wondered when and why they went away. Thanks for the look at one in action. Now I really want one, and am glad that I don’t have any space in the garage for one!
Your Dart looks great!
Love the old wagons:
We had one of those big Sun machines at the Shell station where I worked, The boss used it only to impress the customers. In spite of being an FAA licensed Airframe and Powerplant mechanic (scary thought), cars were “tuned” mostly by ear. Bad spark plugs were found by grabbing the wires. When he got a shock, that plug only was changed. The bill showed a whole set.
Very cool. I’ll have to keep an eye out for a Sun.
Absolutely fantastic. Gus Wilson would be proud of you!
Gus wouldn’t net no fancy tools to find the problem, he’d tell by hearing it coming down the street a block before it made it to his station. 😉
Ah those old time mechanics!
Dad has a problem with the old ’49 Morris Oxford that the city dealer with all the fancy tools couldn’t fix. Eventually a mechanic in outback Queensland diagnosed the problem just by hearing it drive in. I forget what he said it was (too young when he told me), but an hour later he was a very happy man, the car had never run better.
I still have my 70s era Sun home tune up kit in the red case. It is now useless to me, but I can’t bear to part with it. I sure used the crap out of it back in the day!
The cabinet that analyzer is sitting on is even older, probably early 60’s vintage. Could have once held an earlier scope or one of those Sun distributor machines. What a piece of hardware those were!
Very nice, I got to use one of those in my auto shop classes also. Really cool to look at the waveform of the spark and compare all of the cylinders with each other. I would love to put the Opel on one to see where the light throttle miss is coming from. Beautiful garage.
Wow, I remember one of these from my college auto shop classes – it already seemed retro by then (the ’80s), and of course saw many in various garages and repair shops in my youth. Does anyone know the history of this company? Is Sun still around, and do they still make anything like this? Are these still necessary or useful for newer cars?
‘Scopes are still very useful or really more useful than before, but now you use them more for looking at the signals going to or coming from the computers than the high voltage going to the plugs.
I used a Sun analizer almost everyday in the late 70s until the early 90s. Guys that can spot problem patterns and use them to their full potential are few now days. Example. A missing or very short sine wave at the end of the dwell pattern on all cylinders indicates a coil or coil wire with excessive resistance or a rotor starting to leak to ground.The Sunnen vacuum gauges are the best as they are very sensitive and react to minute and subtle vacuum fluctuations. This enabled you to detect a tight valve clearance or slightly leaky valve long before a misfire. In the mid 90s I revisited a shop I preveously worked at and they had pushed the big full console and cabinet Sun machine out on the back lot where it was rusting. 50 bucks was a good buy just for the nostalgia in your shop. I passed on a big one for$150 .Yet there are uses for this equipment in our classic car hobby. In today’s shop the tool of choice is the 4 channel lab scope . Same principle. It shows time and voltage but it displays them in signal form as produced by various sensors to see what hopefully the computer for that system sees. Also great choice on your ignition upgrade.
Still haven’t nailed down all those leaks, huh? 🙂
Nope…every one of them has at least one drip from somewhere. I also store my cardboard for lying on the floor under the cars. Two birds, one stone!
Nice to see the Dirty Dart has not been forgotten about. So, when will I see it at the Motor Muster?
Sticks in my mind the last Sun analyzer I saw was a couple years ago at the Gilmore: They ripped the innards out of it and it now has a TV in it showing a video….or was it an Allen from Kalamazoo based Allen Test Products?
That’s going to be a negatory on the Motor Muster. 🙂 The old Dart’s not up to show standards, and I could never sit anywhere for a whole two days! 🙂
I recall a Sun from my apprenticeship in the late 70s. It replaced an ancient Vane
engine analyzer. I could use a Sun now, the Buick is still points & carby.
Thanks for the story- and the memories.
What a cool old machine, just for the visuals alone. *And* it’s useful!
I, too, am envious of your garage.
Thanks for all the garage comments; I never thought my sagging old dirty garage could elicit any jealousy from anyone! Meanwhile, I’m jealous of anybody with a pole barn. 🙂
Yes, I remember the mechanics (not technicians, as they must be now) saying, “I won’t know anything till I hook it up to the machine”. We always knew the “machine” would tell exactly what was wrong. I love it.
I picked up two of these, one friend wants to buy one already, how much
Those Sun machines looked like Star Trek to me back in the day.
But the bloops on the screen actually mean something on the Sun machine!
I still have an analog compression tester, a Unisyn carb tool and several sets of feeler gauges, as well as a distributor wrench and drum brake tools, but my dwell-tach and timing light disappeared about 15 years ago. It’s probably been even longer since I used any of those old tools I’ve hung on to. Actually, the little “points file” that came with a set of ‘“ignition wrenches” back in the seventies still gets some use.
I just had the distributor of my ’53 Buick out on the bench to replace the cork gasket (I’m trying to track down an oil leak – when am I not?), and I realized the points were slightly misaligned and burning an edge. You guessed it – out came the points file!
Every tool you mentioned is in my toolbox, and most still get a fair bit of use.
Cool garage and I like the Dart wagon it does look better on decent wheels n tyres, A;; the Aussie Vals we got were on 14s, Your speedo is nearly correct eh, I have done similar to my Current Hillman it came with a couple of original size crossply razor blades so for entertainment I measured them against the 15s on my Citroen holy crap nearly the same roll out that explains the excessive rpms at 100kmh even with a lower ratio sedan diffhead, so I now have 185x70x14s on the drive axle and 185x65x14 tyres on the steer and the speedo is close and a 400rpm drop at cruising speed I need to weld some lugs to fit the hubcaps back on.
I was Googling around trying to find out what these things cost new, when they were made, and what ever happened to the Sun company. After mostly finding just people selling them online, I learned they were bought out by Snap-On Tools in 1992, and in some parts of the world where Snap-On wasn’t as well known as in the US, still use the Sun brand name today. Here’s the Sun Europe website with their current selection of shop tools: https://eu.sun-workshopsolutions.com/en
In the US, the Sun brand seems to used only for collision repair software: https://suncollision.com/
And here’s some good info regarding vintage Sun machines, when they were made, pricing, and current value: https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2015/10/old-gold-vintage-engine-analyzers-and-distributor-testers/
That was a great article – thanks for the link!
I remember when every shop seemed to have these, while I made do with my Sears Engine analyzer. Very cool to see one in working condition, and being used.
Whether Ford dealership or independent mechanic, I could never talk them into taking all the time to bring me into the shop and taking me through all the diagnostic options and my own engine’s performance data, watching the scope and meters and all that, which I would totally have geeked over.
BTW, here in 2021, your Dart is a cool car, and looks to be in loving hands!
I bought a Sears Engine Analyzer at a local antique fest years ago; it works pretty well, but the dwell meter isn’t quite right (I have several dwell meters to compare it to).
I used a Sun machine similar to this all the time at the dealership. Any tune-up started with a run on the scope. Find the problem if there is one before doing a tune-up. Always did a compression test. Sometimes a customer is requesting a tune-up because it is time. Sometimes the truck is running terrible and the customer just requests a tune-up without specifying that there seems to be a problem. That engine miss might be something simple or some really bad news.
I especially liked the cancel cylinder capability to get a carb balanced well. Still use my old school stuff occasionally.
I have an old Sun Tune timing light, the lens was lost somewhere probably 30 years ago. Was going to toss it and by a new light when I decided to check ebay, got one for about 15 dollars. Old light is now functional again.
The cylinder cancel feature is my favorite; you don’t have to worry about getting zapped by grounding plugs or pulling wires.
It’s been a LONG time since I’ve seen one of these in action. We did have a Sun scope in my high school when I was there circa 1996, but it probably wasn’t too far from retirement at that point. It was a bit older and much more spartan than yours; I drove old junk so I occasionally used it, but tended to get lazy and tune by ear and seat-of-pants more often than not.
I still drive old junk today, so I wouldn’t mind having one of these in the shop, though I’m a bit short on room. I would definitely default to using the Sun over pants seat these days… How things have changed!
I have a hand held Rac Maxi-Tune that I just absolutely love. Even though my ’68 Plymouth Fury VIP was converted to standard Chrysler electronic ignition back in the 80’s, I’ve found all kinds of other uses for it beyond checking dwell and the instructions that came with it had tests you could run that I never imagined you could do with it. The Maxi-Tune I have was made in the early 70’s but it still has that 60’s Star Trek tricorder styling and is not far from being the same size. It seems that these old school diagnostic tools are making a comeback among owners of pre-computer era cars if what I see on some of the car forums is any indicator as well as eBay.
It’s nice to see that old timey tune up tools are coming back .
Even with breakerless ignitions you still need to properly set the full advance timing and IDLE RPM’s, I left my SUN machine in the VW shop but still use the dwell / tachometer and inductive timing light all the time .
Points files were _burnishing_ files, quite different from regular files .
-Nate
Aaron, Great stuff! Are you in Michigan? This article brings back many memories of fixing engine issues with the help of Sun, Bear, and Allen machines back in the 70s and 80s. How I miss working on the older cars (points, carbs, etc.)! Recently helped two neighbors by turning no-starts into pretty good running engines (’64 Impala and Studebaker:-) Wayne
Thanks Wayne – I am from Michigan.