What a week! Enough turkeys to feed an army. So today, it’s time to go hunting at the dealerships, not in our memory banks. What’s being sold (or trying to be) that should have some nice feathers placed under the wipers, to warn off potential buyers? Buyer beware!
OK, let’s see.
1. The Fiat 500. While the car may have a nostalgia thing going in Europe, it was never sold here, so that doesn’t work. Neither all that economical or all that rewarding to drive (from what I have read). A little fashion item that costs too much for what it is and came about 3 years too late.
2. Dodge Caliber. Why is this still being sold? OK, there are no ready alternatives at Chrysler yet. Too big and thirsty to be an economy car, not big enough (or good enough) to be a real car.
3. The Smart. “Hey, everyone, look at me and what a green, eco, great human I am!” This is the only thing that the Smart does really, really well. It is not enough.
4. Anything made (make that sold) by Lincoln. I love Lincolns, and this just hurts.
5. The person who keeps refusing to jettison all of the MK-whatever names at Lincoln. You, sir, are a disgrace.
6. The Camaro. I know, I know, nobody else out there agrees with me on this. The styling is overdone, and it is nowhere near as functional as it needs to be given its size and weight. And whoever thought that it was a good idea to reprise that classic Chevy blunder of putting all of the instruments down on the console fails to understand why it was originally done: Because GM was CHEAP and was unwilling to give its buyers a proper instrument cluster. You have a virtual blank check to recreate one of the most iconic Chevrolets of all time and you copy the penny pinching console instruments from the company that considered a speedo and a fuel guage to be full instrumentation? AAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHH.
I would argue that if it were not for the nostogia – the Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang would not be currently for sale. Having said that I still want a new Mustang and I’d want a Challenger if they would put a manual in the 6 cyl version. (Don’t hate me I’m just saying there wouldn’t be much of a business case for these cars minus the history.)
I agree with the nostalgia argument for the Camaro and Challenger not so much for the Mustang. It has remained on sale since its introduction rolled with the times, see M II, Fox. THE car that signaled the beginning of the end of the Malaise period with horsepower ratings that started going up instead of down, the triumphant, if brief return of the Holley 4bbl carb, and for introducing performance friendly EFI to the masses. So to me it sells more on what I would call it’s heritage of being a fun affordable car for the times.
Certainly the current Mustang would not be what it is today w/o the return of the competitors.
Agreed on all counts, JP. Throw in the Chrysler 200 convertible. A heavy convertible coupe made from a homely sedan with no pulse? Why not chop the top off the Challenger instead? Still heavy, but at least it would be pretty and fast.
+1 on the stupid Smart!
I think JP nailed it, at least for the domestics and Germans. The Asians have a few worth mentioning, like the Crosstour someone else pointed out, as well as the Nissan Juke and Murano convertible, smiley-faced Mazdas, and practically anything with a Mitsubishi nameplate on it (the Eclipse would be my first choice).
I’m not particularly against the fashion-accessory Fiat 500, not nearly as much as the now passé smart fortwo. Are there even any smart dealers left? The only thing that really damns the 500 is price. For maybe $4k less, it’d be an okay ride.
Likewise, the goofy looking Lincolns are just that: goofy looking, in the same way that the Joker-grille Mazdas are silly. Otherwise, they’re okay and not really enough to make them turkeys, per se.
I’ll give the Camaro a pass because of the nostalgia thing, even though Chevrolet did a much worse job of it then Dodge and the ponderous (but cruise worthy) Challenger.
That leaves the Caliber. It was a turkey when introduced as the Neon’s replacement years ago and, even with the recent interior improvements, there’s no getting around it’s the de facto king of the current turkeys.
The Smart doesn’t even do the eco thing well. It gets beat on mileage and weight by lots of other cars. The only benefit of the Smart is its size and ease of parking, and with clearly delineated parking spots in most cities it’s irrelevant. It’s nothing more than a noveltymobile.
I was also beaten to the punch further down on the Chrysler 200. Chrysler really lost their way a while back, something that seems to happen often with them. the 200 is neither a car suitable for any sort of spirited driving nor is it an economical car. It’s just not a good vehicle.
I would add the current Hondas. The Civic and the Accord, their bread and butter, are bloatmobiles with overwrought styling. For that matter, Toyota seems to have lost its focus as well. Nothing in either of their lineups is noteworthy. Say what you will about GM and Ford, they’re at least making an effort. The real news, though, is the Korean cars. They have come a long way since their shitbox days. They’ll eventually do what every other automaker has done and upsize themselves out of relevance, but right now they’re where it’s at. Who would have ever thought that you could say that about a Kia or Hyundai?
Agreed on the progress made by Kia or Hyundai. Who knew ?
Am I the only one that absolutely loves the ‘plain’ sportiness of the Genesis?
With all due respect, have you ever driven a current era Lincoln? My fiance and mother both have MKZs and I have driven a MKS for an extended time. They have given excellent service, are very nice driving cars, have beautiful interiors and the dealer experience has been supurb. While they are not as bombastic as my 1979 Continental Town Car they both (MKZ and MKS) make a much better daily driver than my 2009 Toyota Corolla. I will agree that the outgoing Town Car is wretched (I had 2011 TC as loaner once – and I thought I was going to love it but the the drivetrain bucked and banged constantly and it felt like I was going to fly off the road in the rain) but their 2 other sedans are very nice luxury cars with an excellent engine (the 3.5 and 3.7 six) that Ford is betting big on. My next car will be a lightly used CPO MKS and I can’t wait.
As for the Lincolns, I do not consider them bad cars. Buy how much nicer are they, really, than the less expensive Ford versions? And if Lincoln’s only reason for being is to sell a handful of Fords with nicer interiors for an extra $7500, then it is time to just pull the plug, because this is never going to work. Call it the Fusion or Taurus or Flex Lincoln Heritage Edition or something and sell it at the Ford dealer for a $5000 premium and everyone wins.
I keep hoping that Lincoln can offer a real Lincoln again – a car that gives someone with money to spend a unique car that is not a Ford clone. The Ford Motor Company is big enough and successful enough to deserve a flagship. A proper Lincoln would be such a car. But as of now, there is no such thing. And nobody is sicker about it than I am.
“Call it the Fusion or Taurus or Flex Lincoln Heritage Edition or something and sell it at the Ford dealer for a $5000 premium and everyone wins.”
Except the Lincoln dealers. Probably the only actual reason Lincoln is still around.
Mr Cavanaugh, you sir are on fuego. great post!
Fiat 500 and Smart can only be considered turkeys if you consider US market isolated from the rest of the world. Both cars are reasonable successes (500 has been a hit) in Europe which is the market they are built for. In both cases the cars added some sales in US but I don’t think anyone ever thought they would be a smash hit in the land of the automotive mastodons. Besides, introducing Cinquecento to US got Fiat another 5% of Chrysler.
+1 on the Camaro. Almost as juvenile looking as the Hummer. Even with it’s anemic taxicab LG4 305, THM 200 and a multitude of other sins, I’d still take the ’82 Z/28 I had over the current Camaro. Where I live, traffic back-ups are everywhere, so how fast you gonna go anyway? At least I could stand to look at the ’82.
I’m actually with you on all points!
The Caliber was a spit the coffee out WTF moment when I first laid eyes on one. This was replacing the Neon?? Really?
The Camaro, I just don’t understand the tribute to a 3 year body. It wasn’t ground breaking in any way that I can think of in 67 and it comes off as cartoonish in 2011.
(One thing they managed to recreate very well with the tribute Camaro is the clostrophobia inducing interior.)
The Camaro and I add the Challenger. You mentioned lack of functionality. Well, everyone on here knows what kind of functionality I stand for and I mean it – buy not buying medium and large coupes.
I wish it were not the case. IF they lowered the beltline so I could see out of the Camaro, that might yet get my attention, however.
So I don’t consider them turkeys, as they sell.
What DO I consider turkeys? Good question. Toyota Tundra comes to mind.
I continue to be baffled by the insistance on judging the Smart car for failing to be something it was never intended to be.
The purpose of the Smart is to carry two people and a small amount of cargo in the smallest practical footprint. Period. Faulting it for failing to have spectacular mileage, or spectacular emissions numbers, or spectacularly light weight, or spectacular anything except fitting into tiny parking spaces is utterly missing the point.
Historically small cars have delivered good gas mileage, that’s their reason for existing. The Smart car doesn’t deliver what its appearance promises, and it costs a fortune to boot. At around $20,000 it is an expensive novelty. A Chevrolet Cruze beats it in virtually every category, giving up only a few miles per gallon for a much more usable vehicle.
Put simply, there’s a reason Smart didn’t take off in the US. If what you say is all it was intended to be it is quite evident that it is not what US customers are looking for. That makes it a turkey by definition.
I’m sorry, but the ability to fit in tiny parking spaces does not fill the urban car need. If it did, why not a shopping cart (motorized optional)? Even Consumer Reports felt the 1st gen was horrible for urban use, with faint praise for the second generation.
There are a few around here east of the Cascades, and the one traveling the 30 miles from the small town to Klamath Falls mystifies me. A tiny car with high sail area in a windy area isn’t smart, to me.
I see more Minis in town. They almost make sense here.
Re: the FIAT 500 – you’re missing the point jpcavanaugh – its styling isn’t about nostalgia anywhere outside of Italy, yet it’s still a hugely successful car in the rest of Western Europe.
The 50s 500 was sold in the UK, but never in great numbers and (outside of a few petrol heads) it isn’t really a shape that’s remembered. That’s not the point. The point is that it looks “retro” and “cute”, lending itself to the same urban “car as fashion statement” trend that BMW capitalise on with the Mini, Citroën capitalise on with the DS3, and VW (in the UK) fail to fully capitalise on with the newBeetle.
The fact that nobody remembers the 50s 500 in the US is irrelevant to its success or failure there. The fact that (outside a small number of coastal cities) Americans don’t tend to buy small fashion-statement cars is far more relevant.
All the instruments?
Relax and think clearly for a minute.
The speedometer, tempertature, fuel and tachometer are on the main cluster, the only ones that are down there are oil pressure+temp, amps, trans temp.
Dont be crybaby.
I’m not fan of the current Camaro, and it has all the faults you mentioned, but it was a success for Chevrolet, and brings a lot of positive attention for the brand, which is why it was created. So on that count, it’s a success. A muscle car, even a modern-day ones, was never intended to be supremely practical or efficient transportation.
Well since the Calibre has already been mentioned I will have to go with the Honda Crosstour.
What the hell is it? It’s not a Honda in any traditional or good since, poor gas mileage, big, overly styled, etc. Is it a Saab lover’s placation car? Nope, not weird enough and too appealing to old folks. A Subaru competitor? Nope, poor mileage, not the room of an Outback, nor the speed of a WRX. So what or who is the target market?
Target market is whoever the Toyota Venza is aimed at. I think I see more Venzas driving around than Crosstours though. At least the Venza appears to have more height in the back because the roof doesn’t slope down.
We were in the market for a vehicle a little over a year ago to replace my wife’s 2001 Civic. Too small to be a family car once our second child came along. I had heard rumors a couple years ago that an Accord wagon was coming and I was hopeful. The rumors turned out to be the Crosstour. I was very disappointed. We bought a lease-return 2006 CR-V with the 5-speed and have been quite happy with it.
The rumored Accord wagon could very well have been the Acura TSX wagon we got last year. It’s an Accord across the pond.
One word: Renault. Unreliable heaps from the dauphine to the megane. It boggles my mind why anybody would buy one with their own money. You see 5 year old examples in the junkyard without any accident damage due to unfixable mechanics and electrics
Acura ZDX and BMW X6. The Azteks of our time.
Good call!
If I had to chose, I’d readily take a ZDX over a Camaro, though. Rarely have I truly hated a car more.
C,mon, I know you’re around my age…surely there’s some mid-life crisis left in you? May I suggest the Camaro in synergy green?
The fact that I was behind one in traffic the other day in that exact color only reinforced my feelings. I’m sorry, but there’s just not a good line on it.
OK…how about a green-with-envy Challenger R/T?
What about the BMW 5-Series GT? That’s even uglier than the X6.
The Honda Crosstour also slopes down at the back like the ZDX and X6 for no good reason.
I think the Nissan Juke is way uglier though, and the Murano is still less attractive than these.
Absolutely. In the last year I’ve seen maybe five X6s, and only one ZDX here in car-conscious west Houston. A huge WTF.
There’s nothing wrong with new and sometimes edgy styling. But whereas today I was admiring the fluid design of the Soul and Veloster, the ZDX and X6 looked awkward from day 1, and still do. Azteks indeed.
And there’s the Scion Xb, but then I’ve already vented my spleen on it: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2007/05/scion-xb-2/
Saw a Xbox labeled Daihatsu Matera recently
Fiat 500 the original, was terrible the retro only invokes memories of how bad.
One more: Maybach. MB just announced it’s pulling the plug.
The Nissan Murano Cabriolet. I have never seen one of these in person, I can’t imagine why anyone would buy one.
Just saw my first one in a driveway this am. Awful lines! Why would anyone— nevermind a auto exec. think that there’s a market for a convertible SUV???
Ah…. what’s an SUV for again??? oh, off roading–so– where;s the roll bar?
just noticed the rear end of a Honda civic is a dead copy of the Neon. why, Honda? your civics, accords and all your cars for that matter remind me of the Gap. Used to make stylish clothes, now it all looks like a cheap LL Bean,clone.
Whether most SUVs are designed for off-roading or not, the Murano is a “Crossover” not a true SUV, so not really designed for offroading. Regardless the Murano CrossCabriolet is an ugly vehicle and I can’t see there being much market for it.
The Nissan Juke is also very ugly IMO. Looks like it was designed by aliens… drunken aliens. I dislike the looks of the Cube as well. The styling if their recent sedans has been nice, but they’ve come out with all these oddball vehicles that makes me wonder WTF?
Real SUVs were always convertibles back in the day, with either a soft top, Jeep or the choice or removable hard tops or folding soft tops and the roll-bar was not a standard item. So in one way it’s a return to the SUV’s roots. But yes it makes an ugly car uglier.
I saw one on I-75 two weeks ago – looked like a bathtub on wheels, moreso than any other bathtub-like car through the years. So they finally sold one in the Cincinnati area, good for them.
And the Honda CR-Z: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/01/why-the-honda-cr-z-is-so-ugly-and-should-never-have-been-built/
Some also rans:
Beaten with an ugly stick award: Tacoma pickup, Nissan Juke, and any baleen whale grill Lincoln.
Total unreliability award: Any Jaguar or Land Rover
Sloth award: Honda CRZ
Future white-trash-mobile award: Dodge Caliber,Chrysler 200, Nissan Versa
Yep, that Juke is simply hideous.
I think that new FWD Cadillac they have coming out soon could become a turkey. Based on past experience, I’m SO worried GM is going back to their old ways…
Also, the current, Americanized Jetta has the potential to become a real shitpile.
ugh… that de-contented Jetta is indeed awful
I’m going to go with the 2012 Honda Civic, a car so panned by the critics that before 2012 even got here Honda announced that the 2013 would “fix” those problems.
I think Honda also deserves a shot at the Turkey brand and MFG award.
For the brand the CR-Z, Civic, and Crosstour are all strong Turkey contenders and overall they seem to have lost their focus on what made their cars appealing and thus good sellers.
Lincoln certainly is a contender for Turkey brand too. Not enough differentiation from the Ford models to justify the price premium, the MK-huh? names, and the styling is definitely polarizing to say the least.
However I still pick Honda simple due to the fact that they have taken the biggest downturn recently. Lincoln has pretty much been where they are at for a while.
Throw in Honda’s Acura line and the fact they have many of the problems of Lincoln styling, to large of a price gap for what you get, and that like the lesser brand have seem to lost their focus and Honda is a shoe in for the 2012 Turkey MFG award.
I’ll have to give a special mention to my beloved Crown Victoria since there were 2012 models made, just not available for sale anywhere but the Gulf Council States. Quite ironic that the last “real American car” (BOF, RWD, V8) went to the countries that signed the death warrant for its kind.
Edit: the Turkey segment the B class cars, so many of them fail to exceed the C class cars mpg, and often aren’t that much cheaper either.
I say the ’12 Honda Civic is a big fat Turkey. When I see one, in shades of grey, I go ‘ugh’. Honda never had to apologize or say ‘we are going to re-do it’ for anything they sell, til now. And when Honda said ‘fixed in 2013’, they meant for the 2014 model intro in fall ’13, nearly two years from now. Dealers have to resort to incentives to move them until then. Sounds like GM from the past 25 years?
Regarding the ‘beloved’ Caliber, the last one rolls off the line this Dec 23rd! So, there won’t be any 2012 model year Calib’s built in actual year 2012. The Fiat sourced compact sedan, yet unamed, is coming soon!
Oh one more thing, caucasian Trailer Trash people rarely drive used imports, so I don’t see Versas there. But for sure, used G6’s, G5’s, Cobalts, Uplanders, Calibers, Avengers, Sebring/200’s…
Late in the day (closing a deal on an ’05 Scion xB with 20k on it, pick it up tomorrow morning), but I’ll wade in:
1. I don’t care how much a sales success the Camaro is, that’s only proof that H. L. Mencken knew the American public real well. Incredibly ugly bad joke of a car, what you’d expect a bored 8th grader to design while the teacher is droning on.
2. Dodge Caliber – definitely the dog of the decade. Honorable mention to the Jeep Compass.
3. I’ll go with the Sebring as long as your talking the previous incarnation. The current model drags it back as close to respectability as you can get without a complete redesign. If they’d had only brought this verision out originally . . .
4. Won’t pan the Smart for worst car, however I will pan the Smart for having the worst transmission currently in production. The car does fulfill it’s design, however that design wasn’t made for Americans.
5. Ditto the Fiat 500. Absolutely wonderful car – if you’re cutting through Rome traffic. One was on my January new car list until I tripped across that Scion today. However, the vast majority of American will never have a clue what this car is about. And JLo ain’t helping.
6. Also, the panning of Lincoln isn’t justified. What Ford is currently making is a very nice equivalent of the Lincoln Zephyr back in the 1930’s. Unfortunately what they’re NOT making is an equivalent of the K Series Lincoln’s of the 1930’s. Right now, should I get into the mood for a low end luxury four door sedan with automatic, Buick and Lincoln are on my list way ahead of any of the imported competition. Accept the Lincoln for what it is, not what you think it should be. And hope that Ford starts producing that ‘what you think it should be’ car Real Soon Now.
I’d have to agree with the Lincoln assessment, and I have to say a MKZ is more tolerable to look at than a LaCrosse. People forget during a period of the 1950s Lincolns were priced and aimed at Olds Ninety Eights, Buick Roadmasters and Chrysler New Yorkers just as much as base Cadillacs.
You can’t really blame Lincoln while giving Buick with the Verano and Regal a free pass. And like mentioned above, the new “Super Epsilon” Cadillac doesn’t take Cadillac too far out of the woods either. Most American and Japanese “Luxury” brands are having a hard time justifying their existance, with the probable exception of Lexus.
The MKZ is better-looking than the LaCrosse, but, on the road, the LaCrosse is definitely a step up from the Malibu, while the MKZ isn’t really much better than a Fusion (which is a very nice car, but it’s not a luxury car).
I would nominate the Lincoln MKT – it’s a completely pointless vehicle, and ugly, as well.
It’ll be interesting to see how the gap closes or widens when the New Malibu hits the streets next year. I would assume the dynamics would have been stepped up, but then there’s no V6 option. And the LaCrosse (needlessly) offers the redundant eAssist 2.4L Ecotec. I think the gap will narrow even more since there’s no middle step Epsilon cars left.
But good point, The MKZ is a fancy Fusion, but the Fusion is innately a better basic car than the Malibu, I would guess. It’s a debate of what is a unique Buick (with some faults) versus a really fancy Ford. The MKZ is really the kind of car Mercury always wanted to be (and failed at since 1961). But it’s a really good looking, kinda understated Fancy Ford, and not some Anime fantasy of what a Buick looks like. Although the scowling headlights are a nice nod to the Angry 1959-60 Buick models….
2. Dodge Caliber – definitely the dog of the decade. Honorable mention to the Jeep Compass.
I give the Compass a pass because Chrysler did such a good job with the reskin.
The interesting thing about the Caliber/Compass/Patriot is that they all have the same chassis, yet no one has had much of a problem with the Patriot from its introduction.
On top of the mediocrity in nearly every category, maybe what irritates people most about the Caliber is how it looks so much like a mini-Aztek.
The new 2012 model year lineup is a flock of turkeys.
1. The Smart car: On turkey day itself, I figured out why I so hate this car besides the high price, bad gas mileage, and inherent lameness. It is a large wheelchair!
2. The entire subcompact segment: They rival their compact brethren in gas mileage and price (definitly not a good thing) but are smaller and feel much cheaper.
3. The Hyundai Accent: The 2011 Accent based at about $10,000. The 2012 Accent bases at over $13,000 and feels cheaper than the 2011 Accent.
4. The Hyundai Veloster: ?????????????????????????????????????????????????
5. The Honda Civc: From the rear, it looks exactly like a 2002 Toyota Camry, which was hideous in its own right.
6. The Chevrolet Sonic: A glorified Aveo that bases at over $15,000. I do like those headlights, though.
7. The Honda CR-Z: This is the anti-Honda like Satan is the anti-Christ.
8. Stability Control: Although not a car, this evil, government mandated device makes cars even more expensive and insults my ability to drive.
9. The Chrysler 200: Nice try Fiat, but this is still a Sebring, even if the interior is nicer.
10. The entire Jeep lineup: How often do you see one that has been used off road?
11. The Buick Verano, coming soon: 1980s, anyone? Maybe Cadillac will rebadge a Cruze, too!
I’m sure that there are a few missing here, but the automobile market is no better than it ever was.
“The Buick Verano, coming soon: 1980s, anyone? Maybe Cadillac will rebadge a Cruze, too!”
Verano is not a simple rebadge, but similar to a Buick model sold in China, its biggest market. C size class cars are now the price of entry for most makes. Reviews have said it’s not just another 1982-89 Skyhawk. Besides, the Chevy Cruze is far superior to the 1980’s J car. Compact is not ‘cheap/tacky’ anymore.
BTW, the ’12 Chevy Sonic is an all new Global car, not just a Deawoo Aveo rebadge.
The Camaro for the reasons already given; the styling reminds me of a Hot Wheel parody of a ’69 Camaro. The “69 was a vastly better looking vehicle.
The Smart Car-I keep trying to figure out what is “smart” about this turkey and I can’t find one thing.
The Fiat 500-Fiat absolutely blew the introduction of it and the spots with JLo driving it simply labeled it as a “chick car”. Nobody else will touch it now.
The Honda Crosstour- apparently this is aimed at buyers who want more cargo capability but don’t want an SUV because of its gas guzzler image, they don’t want a mini-van because of its soccer mom image and they don’t want a station wagon because their parents drove one. I don’t know what demographic it’s supposed to appeal to; so far I have seen three of them.
I agree about Crosstour, has founders of Honda are rolling in grave! Honda was about efficiency for decades, and this is a needless gas hog.
My wife and I actually went to look at a Honda Crosstour this summer, thinking that due to the oddity factor and thus slow sales, we might be able to get a good deal, and she sort of liked it for whatever reason. One of our local Honda dealers had a couple on the lot–2010 models, still unsold. (Remember, this was this past summer, 2011.) The sales guy seemed to think he had some kind of precious commodity on his hands and didn’t seem to get that moving a year-old, slow-selling vehicle might require a discount on his part. So we walked, and I don’t know if he ever unloaded his Crosstours. Honda has finally matured to the point where it thinks it can do no wrong, much like the GM of yore.
But the BMW X6 far outdoes it in terms of garish douchebagosity, and will sell quite well to those who see such a godawful reflection of their personality as a plus. Especially in LA.
I’m having trouble thinking of a non-turkey. In my mind a car should seat six people, have rear wheel drive (ideally), have a large trunk with front and rear overhangs, and a hood that can be seen from the driver’s seat. Now that the Panther cars are dead, there are none like that on the market (the DTS might come close, but it is leaving too).
In the styling department, I’d say the Camaro misses the mark by a huge margin. While the Challenger and (last generation) mustang were directly influenced by the originals, the Camaro looks like a parody of the original, and just like every other Chevrolet it looks like it is smiling (not a desirable look for a muscle/pony car). But at least the Camaro is trying to look like a real car. I hate sports cars, but apart from the Challenger, Camaro, and maybe the 300, no cars currently on the market even remotely interest me. Car design is going the way of NASCAR; because of aerodynamics, every new car has the same exact shape, just with different grilles and headlights.
But the mother of all turkeys is the Toyota Prius. Its a nice idea, but the execution is incredibly flawed. Building a modern car naturally has more environmental impact than building a car several decades ago, since parts and materials are now shared across the world, but the Prius takes it a step further. the battery components have to be mined, then flown to Japan to be refined and assembled, then shipped to the manufacturing plants. Just getting a few miles per gallon better in the city will never undo the damage done by building the car, and to make matters worse it gives Prius owners a false sense of superiority and further delays any work on real alternative energies (hybrids have all the disadvantages of gasoline but none of the advantages of Hydrogen, steam, or [this one is still way off] nuclear fusion). This really applies to all hybrids, but the Prius is the worst because it is “the best”.
I don’t know, I understand your point about the Prius, but for an economical and reliable family car you really can’t go wrong. I certainly wouldn’t put the Prius up with the ranks of the Caliber or the Smart.
Sorry Steven, you’ve been buying some old fallacies. I’ve been driving Priuses daily for 11 years, and they’re very satisfying and successful as all-around cars.
The impact of building a Prius is no more than any other car, which depends just as much on global mining, shipping, refining and manufacturing. The canard about a Hummer having less impact than a Prius came from one guy, who has since recanted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius#Lifetime_energy_usage
The two million Priuses built so far have done a lot to bring power electronics, motor/generators and high-efficiency batteries down to volume pricing, laying a foundation for the pure electrics that are just starting to emerge.
I took my 2010 Prius (which cost $23K by the way, not $30K+) on a Portland / Salt Lake City road trip this year, 800 miles in one day each way, flat out at 65-75 mph. It was a comfortable highway car, and delivered 48 mpg.
I would never say that a Hummer is better for the environment than a Prius, and Prii (after being built) are very environmentally friendly compared to gasoline cars. My problem is the environmental impact of mining for the batteries and improper disposal. This is a problem with all electric cars, and if you compare a hybrid to other midsize economy cars I doubt it would have the least total impact. There is just no way that the environmental impact of mining for batteries can be undone by emitting slightly less smog than other cars.
There is no replacement for fossil fuels ready right now, and hybrid vehicles will only stretch the problem out and keep people from working on real solutions. Instead of focusing on hybrids, auto companies need to work on other alternatives (and no, natural gas isn’t any better, because it will run out just like petroleum). Unfortunately, even at our huge rates of usage, many current estimates say the petroleum reserves will run out in 300-400 years, meaning that auto companies have no real incentive to do anything apart from minor work on emissions control and fuel economy. There’s just no immediate threat to gas, no matter how much it pollutes or how expensive it is.
Honda has the right idea with the FCX Clarity, since hydrogen fuel cell cars don’t need huge batteries, hydrogen production is cleaner than gasoline production (and can be done at the station itself, unlike gas), fuel cells don’t produce any emissions at all, and fuel cell cars can be refueled just like real cars. Its far from ready right now, but if auto makers focus on it (like they did with hybids), hydrogen could end up solving a lot of the problems caused by gasoline.
(A disclaimer: I’m no scientist, and like almost everyone else involved in the alternative fuels debate I just get my information from research, not direct involvement, so there is always a chance I am misunderstanding or misinterpreting some of the data. This is just the way I see things. Also, I admit I’m a hypocrite. The reason I want to see more environmentally friendly cars is so that there will be enough gasoline left for me to drive a classic car)
Like the lead-acid batteries we all know, nickel-metal-hydride Prius batteries are recycled, mainly to reuse the nickel.
EVs like the Leaf and Volt have lithium ion batteries. That lithium gets recycled too. Lithium is available in many places including the US. Current reserves would provide enough for 2 billion Leaf-size batteries, says Wikipedia. As with other minerals, more demand and recycling takes care of supply.
PS: Agreed on keeping gas for the classics. Gasoline cars will never completely go away. People still ride horses and sail boats for the pleasure and beauty of it.
If you’re satisfied with it…good on you. There’s no accounting for individual taste; I once owned a mail Jeep – and liked it.
But as I referenced further down, it falls flat on its purported mission. It does NOT save resources. It does NOT save ownership costs…fuel savings are spent on the much-higher purchase price. It contains materials which are costly and difficult to deal with once it’s scrapped…more environmental degradation.
Sometimes simple is better. We had a fleet of 40-plus-mpg cars made; and our great government outlawed them with changing “safety” standards. The moving goalpost. Which is not going to motivate more manufacturers to try again, on a low-margin economy car.
Nice scary quotes around “safety” standards.
Do you sincerely doubt cars today are safer than cars designed whenever the hell you’re talking about?
A Geo Metro gets around the same MPG as a Prius, but what exactly do you get in a Metro? Not much. The Prius on the other hand is everything the Metro isn’t. Can you comfortably fit a family of four plus cargo in a Metro? Nope. Will you have a higher chance of surviving a head-on crash or have a decreased risk of injury in a Metro? Nope. I think I know which car I’d rather have as an economical daily driver.
“It does NOT save ownership costs…fuel savings are spent on the much-higher purchase price.”
Um, a new Prius costs about the same as a volume-seller Camry, and used examples go for around $16-18K, at least in my area. Combine that with the high gas mileage and it’s pretty easy to see that it actually *does* save cash. Remember that the Prius is more of a mid-size family car, not something like a Yaris.
“Will you have a higher chance of surviving a head-on crash or have a decreased risk of injury in a Metro? Nope. I think I know which car I’d rather have as an economical daily driver.”
Every man to his taste. I know where I’d want to be when a Prius, with all those batteries, is twisted into a wreck…rescue crews spraying water all over the scene, maybe a rainstorm or snow…all that amperage; all that acid.
I’d want to be in the back row of spectators.
Yes, I had a Metro; three of them, in succession, actually. They were rude cars, sure – because they were made to a price. Had there been a market for high-mileage comfortable cars, sound-deadening and a more sophisticated transmission could have been put in there for additional money.
But the car did fit my needs. And crash safety is compromised – but LIFE is a series of compromise. You want to be safe, stay home. A Cadillac is safer than a Metro; and a limousine safer than either.
I didn’t plan to have any head-ons with that car; and I didn’t. And it was safer than many previous cars I’d had, such as a Vanagon Westfalia; or my Yugo; or my Pintos.
Or, my current bike, a BMW 1200GS.
I think safety standards have gone from commonsense to practical to overkill and now to Monty Python. Really…the air bag is a good example. A “safety” device that’ll blow up in your face and kill you if you don’t put your seat belt on; or if you’re below a certain height? And to minimize that (high) possibility, seats and steering wheel are now set in positions uncomfortable to me.
And this crap, along with the door I-beams, with the new positioning standards of fuel tanks…has added hundreds, thousands of pounds in cars today. A Geo Metro…weighed 1600 lbs. My Yaris weighs over 2300 lbs; and that weight is reflected both in fuel use and in needed engine size.
Part of what you were saying indirectly helped me figure out how to put into words the main problem I have with the Prius (I realize my previous argument was neither well constructed nor entirely convincing).
There is an enormous difference between economy cars and environmentally friendly cars, and they are almost always mutually exclusive. Economy cars are all about cost to run (usually measured in mpg these days), while environmentally friendly cars are all about minimal impact.
The original Fiat 500 could get well over 50mpg with a gasoline engine, and the Rambler American (which by todays standards would probably be considered a full-sized car) set a NASCAR coast-to-coast economy record of 35.4mpg in 1959, but neither of those cars have any sort of emissions controls, and they pollute like nobody’s business.
Conversely, the Chrysler Turbine Car didn’t even have an exhaust system in the modern sense, the exhaust essentially poured directly out of the engine (after going through a simple chamber to cool it down to about 200º fahrenheit), yet it would pass even the strictest emissions standards today because the incredibly amount of air sucked through the engine diluted the toxic fumes to almost nothing. Of course, that car was criticized for poor fuel economy even in the early 1960s.
The Prius is the mother of all economy cars (at least in the US market, where superior diesel alternatives aren’t offered) but it is only environmentally friendly compared to gasoline cars. Disregarding initial price and all of the costs usually quoted by detractors, the Prius is much cheaper to run than many competing cars. Unfortunately Toyota, and all other hybrid manufacturers for that matter, insist on marketing these cars as environmentally friendly cars, and that’s why they are turkeys in my eyes. They are not what they claim to be, and because of that they are hindering any real progress towards alternative fuel sources.
I’m willing to drop all of my bias that says a real car should be twenty feet long and dripping with chrome and have velour couches inside, I know that’s not what the Prius is supposed to be. But when I just look at it for what it claims to be, it fails miserably.
I don’t agree with you about the Prius. While the early adopters certainly wore their halos well (and loudly), the vast majority of folks I know with one (15) love the technology involved, love saving resources, and enjoy driving something different. Emphasis on technology.
For all the huzzahs thrown at the Volt (deserved I’m guessing), the Prius is a pretty advanced, and now proven, technological piece.
The smug left a long time ago, at least from I saw.
But the mother of all turkeys is the Toyota Prius…
The rationale for that statement (the Prius’ use of battery resources in production) might better be applied to something like the Volt or Leaf, both of which depend much more heavily on battery power than the Prius.
A major component of many ‘turkeys’ is a big sales surge when introduced, only to fall dramatically when the failings of the product become apparent. Sales for the Prius have been just the opposite, steadily (and significantly) increasing annually over at least a decade of production.
Barring a major spike in gas prices, it’s doubtful that either the Volt or Leaf (both of which would seem to use a lot more resources to build than the Prius) will increase sales at the same rate. But at this early stage, it’s still a little early to label either the Volt or Leaf as ‘turkeys’.
^^Definitely agree with nearly all of this.^^
For me, the 300 is the only car currently sold new that I find even remotely tempting. Modern cars are swell appliances, but I just don’t seem to care much about most of them.
I second nominating the current version of the Civic as a turkey. A car that went from being the symbol of fun (CRX) to being the epitome of dreck in two generations, all from a car company that knew better because it had seen the Big Four (GM, Ford, Mopar & AMC) do the same and lose their shirts and then went ahead and did it in the name of making money anyway ’cause they figured they’d skate by on the name and rep.
I like my 2010 Accent, with the stick it was much more fun to drive than the 2010 Honda Civic I drove while car buying. It even felt more substantial. 30 mpg in daily driver use and mildly tossable in the manner of a Mk1 VW GTI. The current reviews saying the ’12 Hyundai Accent has poor steering feel, isn’t very fun to drive, and won’t return to center aren’t good. Small cars should be fun to drive to make up for their lack of luxury. I might end up keeping the ’10 for a long time. I hope this isn’t the first sign that Hyundai has jumped the shark.
The new Camaro looks like a Trosley Car-Toons parody of the original minus a gigantic supercharger. Hideous. I like the Mustang much better.
Here’s my nominations:
1: 2011 Jetta. I drive a 2007 Jetta and I was appalled at how much cost-cutting went into the current model. Cheapo interior? Check. Rear drum brakes? Check. No independent rear suspension except on the GLI? Check.
2: 2012 Civic. You know when you’ve messed up royally as a car company when Consumer Reports no longer recommends one of your best-sellers.
3: Smart. It’s not a bad car at all, but it suffers from not having a diesel version and it’s not exactly suited to American needs.
4: Mitsubishi Galant. It’s become what the 2000-2006 Taurus was to rental cars. The Galant used to be a pretty neat car during the late 80s and early 90s, but they’ve let it stagnate so much that it has nothing going for it now, much like the rest of Mitsubishi’s lineup.
5: 2009 Camaro. Nominating this one solely for having the worst visibility of any car I’ve ever seen.
I agree about the Galant – barely competitive when it was introduced in 2004, and it hasn’t gotten any better over time. Meanwhile, Toyota has redesigned the Camry twice since then…
The Galant is what the Sonata was a few years ago and is no longer–a nice car, for about nine years ago.
Agree on the Jetta–so decontented, it makes sense as a rental fleet car (I’ve had a couple). A “German” car with no temperature gauge?
I agree about the Juke, even Letterman made it a punch line! LOL (he ended up getting a Fusion!!!! 😉
The Murano was a pretty vehicle…….at first. Then they F***ed up the grill, now this horrible convertible?
The Cube. It’s the Picasso of small CUVs……….not a compliment!
Luckily for Nissan the rest of their line up is very good.
I like Lincolns………..a lot! MKZ and MKS are fine with me, even the naming. I still hope for a “MK IX” (as in Mark Nine.) The MKT……ummm has a great interior! If it had looked like the Show Car, as the Flex did, it would have been great.
I don’t like the Camaro, but it’s not a turkey………just a FAT chicken.
A technology I’d nominate and withdraw is MYFord Touch. It looks like the new flash and upload has fixed the problems, but at a cost of falling reliability. I hope Ford recovers from this guffaw quickly. It wasn’t Job 1, it wasn’t ready.
In the long term, historically, I think the Fiat 500 will be the stinker. Fiat may be stuck actually selling Chryslers! The Fiat dealership is a joke, with a lineup of ONE car that few seem to want.
Every sedan with an A, B, or C pillar that is more than 3 inches wide, or a window opening that does not comfortably accommodate my elbow, or that weighs 500 lbs too much. I think that is all of them.
The poor, neglected Corolla. Nice car for the money in 2003, but the reskin of a few years ago doesn’t hide the ancient bones.
I can’t believe that Eminem Commercial has sold upwards of 100, 000 Chrysler 200s?
Looks of the charger restyle of 2011 has met with a bit of a thud saleswise. to me, the rear end looks a bit more like an intrepid with the taillight area enclosed rather than clapped over the trunk opening.
Id Like To see The Chrysler 300 New Yorker & Newport editions, Cordoba based off a reshaped Challenger?
The Cars I consider Turkeys are THE IMPALAS looking exactly the same as they did in what 2005? Earlier? They could alter the Taillights Etc aty least.
Pontiac Is a Turkey Thats been eaten last Thanksgiving at the latest. Ditto Mercury. Oldsmobile…SAD… Should I Buy a Loaded 1999 Olds Silouette Minivan,…?
Impala got a refresh in 2006. Technically it’s only 5 years old. I’d say GMs biggest mistake with Impala is that it’s using a platform that dates back to 1988.
The ’06 Impala was a spring ’05 release, so its going on 7 calendar years! Ancient and I only see new ones with rental stickers.
How about the Toyota Auris? Quality is obviously Toyota-great, but it’s gotta be one of the blandest cars on sale. Same goes for some Mazdas currently on sale. Also, Fiat did a nice job screwing up the Grande Punto by turning it into the Punto Evo.
But one tops ’em all: the SsangYong Rodius. No further explanation necessary.
Hmmm…the SMART; that’s self-explanatory. The Camaro…retro-cars have appeal; I get it; but they have to work AS CARS. I don’t know how any normally-shaped human sees out of those gun-slit windows. It would be a real challenge for a kid; and twice the fun for someone old enough to actually remember the original that model apes.
The Fiat 500…a car without a purpose. As noted, it’s a nostalgia-car, and that won’t work someplace that has no memory of the original. Marchionne would have been better off to have taken the drivetrain from the 500 and put it in a retro-Horizon, or a retro-K. Hey, at least those are cars people remember with some respect…cars that symbolize a time when Chrysler had hope of a future, when people were pulling for it.
Finally…and this is gonna be controversial…I’m going to nominate a sleeper-turkey. The Toyota Prius!
Why? Not because it doesn’t do the basics – it does. It’s a turkey because the reasoning behind its premises; its sale; its justification…are all flawed.
Example: It is marketed as a way to save earth’s resources. But from design to destruction, the Prius uses far-and-away more oil, steel and rare metals that other “fuel-efficient” cars.
It is marketed as a way to save costs. But an owner has to keep a Prius for well over 120,000 miles to BREAK EVEN on the savings on gasoline vis a vis the cost of purchase. And to afford a Prius, a buyer necessarily is going to be well-off; and who in those circumstances will keep an old car with complex, relatively-new technology, around for the savings? Damned few.
What it is, is profligate consumption for the sake of fashion; while those who consume this way sneer at others who consume perhaps less profligately, for the sake of fashion (Hummers or Jeeps). It sets one group of not-so-aware people against another group of people who are simply minding their own business and choosing their styles…as Americans have always done.
The Prius is sold as an answer to all the nebulous environmental questions being raised by sham-scientists and alarmists. What it IS is a meat cleaver directed at the core of American society.
“What it IS (Prius) is a meat cleaver directed at the core of American society.”
Wow; never knew a little car with a battery could have such power. Do you feel threatened by it?
“Wow; never knew a little car with a battery could have such power. Do you feel threatened by it?”
Yes, Paul – I do.
We’ve lived in relative peace and harmony for 230 years by NOT emphasizing our differences; by NOT rubbing salt in the raw flesh. I may be Old-Time Gospel Evangelist; you may be Presbyterian; and the next poster Jewish; but we all, for all our history, wanted mostly the same things. Which in our age, include such appliances as personal automobiles.
When the CHOICE of a car becomes a “social statement” – you have the seeds of disharmony. Perhaps you believe that the prevalence of SUVs is a risk to the atmosphere. And perhaps I believe they’re safer ways for my children to travel in. So…the dictators of taste, in media, enabled further by divisive advertising campaigns…smears people who choose SUVs, such as myself in this example – and by association, I become a mouth-breathing sub-human unfit for my station and in need of compulsive correction by my betters.
Meantime, those people who choose the (cue the warm-fuzzy music here) HYBRID, are FRIENDS of ALL NATURE – and who CARE (more than I, it is suggested). Never MIND that the total energy used and CO2 released, from raw material to total scrapping, is HIGHER for the Prius than the Hummer H1.
I really don’t want to go into this further; it’s raw-naked politics. But yes, politics do matter, even if they’re off-topic here; and yes, wrongheaded or dishonest politics, attaching value to relatively insignificant choices like vehicle or clothing or type of shopping bag…those ARE threatening the kind of society we have enjoyed until recently.
According to a report done by Detroit Free Press, the average purchase price of new cars was $29,217 in 2010. The basic model of the Prius, which I drive, is currently $23,520. 2011 Camry starts at $21,995. Starting price of the 2011 Ford F-150 is $22,990.
I drive the Prius for its advanced technology, and its efficiency, and because it’s an all-around fine car. There are so many Priuses on the road there’s no “snob” value anymore.
And you’re free to choose that. I’ve chosen cars and trucks for space or capacity or technology (4wd) that might have been of dubious value to me, if judged by an outside observer. But I did; and seldom did I feel I wasted money.
My problem, at root, is not the Prius’ technology; but how it’s marketed; and why it’s marketed the way it is. And the type of buyers who are attracted to such a marketing campaign.
A Prius today, is the world’s most expensive magnetic ribbon. It’s required ownership for the I-CARE crowd.
I’ll say no more, except to thank you for your indulgence.
I’m surprised to see the Smart being bandied around, but for the “current” not “turkey” quality. It’s an outright turkey, but surely belongs in the ’00s section? Yes – it’s still on sale, but it’s an elderly design and has been essentially unchanged since launch in 2000. (yes I know it was redesigned in 2008 but really, spot the difference?)
As outlined in response to an earlier comment, I think anyone nominating the FIAT 500 “because people don’t remember the original” has misunderstood the appeal of that car… Though I do agree it’s a tough sell in the US, but for different reasons (not least FIAT’s inexplicable decision to launch it there with the old-tech uninspiring 1.4, instead of the fantastic new TwinAir engine)
From genuinely-current (i.e. launched in the past 5 years) Euro-market models I’m finding it surprisingly hard to point to any outright Turkeys…
The Lancia/Chrysler Delta isn’t my cup of tea styling-wise, and seems a bit pointless alongside it’s sister-models the capable FIAT Bravo, and gorgeous Alfa Guiletta.
The MG6 is kind of laughable, but I don’t know if it really qualifies as “mass market”
Mercedes-Benz B-Class: pointless, ugly, over-priced, & questionable reliability.
Oh and pretty much anything current with a Peugeot badge on. Peugeot have completely lost their way with styling which is sad as they used to produce some of the handsomest mass-market cars in Europe.
I really can’t add to this list, most of the ones that have crossed my mind have already been mentioned, and for most of the same reasons I considered, too.
I do have to say that the commentary on the Prius is rather interesting. I never really thought of it as an attack on the American way of life. Even though I was very young when the Beetle was very popular, I would equate the ‘buzz’ and popularity of the Prius of the present with the Beetle’s rep of the mid-late 60’s. That being said, as Toyota’s HSD system becomes mature, someone else will find a way to outdo it. It’s already begun, as other technologies (Leaf, Volt) are advancing, and “regular” (read: gasoline) cars are approaching what was once HSD territory.
One note: I think we should stop using “Hybrid” attached to the Toyota HSD system, as the word hybrid is used on all kinds of things not even remotely automotive. Growing up near farm fields, I see hybrid on a car, and I immediately think: Corn.
My only other comments on the Prius are this: I was thoroughly p!ssed when some of the states started offering tax credits for these cars. I would prefer that tax incentives be applied to any one who voluntarily downsizes, but that’s another discussion for another time.
I have driven them a couple of times, and found the experience generally bland. Not that it’s awful to drive, but a rental Cobalt will give me the same amount of emotional involvement. It’s not my thing. However, I think that if I had the need for something like this, this would be a good appliance. As much as passionate car guys disdain “appliance” cars, there is a place for them. The right tool for the right job and all that…
“I do have to say that the commentary on the Prius is rather interesting. I never really thought of it as an attack on the American way of life. Even though I was very young when the Beetle was very popular, I would equate the ‘buzz’ and popularity of the Prius of the present with the Beetle’s rep of the mid-late 60′s.”
The Beetle was never marketed as a halo – it was sold as a car, a car that was a car and not the latest fashion accessory (model-year styling changes). Its marketing emphasized what it WAS – personal transportation for little money.
The Prius has been whisper-marketed (bzzz-bzzz-bzzz) as a Green car. Which is balderdash – not withstanding the one assertion otherwise, it’s easy to see why it’s a resource-consumer. Obviously, fuel usage is but one aspect of resource consumption and potential pollution.
I think it goes without saying that I don’t react well to holier-than-thou posturing; and especially when it involves an expensive consumer product. Smug people make me…itch….