(first posted 3/14/2014) How’s this for something different? I have always liked Peugeots, partly due to the maroon 505 sedan by Corgi I got as a preschooler, and partly due to their elusiveness. Today, however, I give you a couple of ads for the 504, which was the 404’s replacement and the 505’s predecessor.
The top ad is my favorite, showing both the sedan and wagon. Peugeot really went the extra mile in designing their wagons, going beyond adding a quick and cheap roof extension and new quarter windows to the sedan, as can clearly be seen in the top picture. That was nothing new with the 405 iteration, as Peugeot wagons’ special engineering dated all the way back to the postwar 203. Paul’s full write-up on the classic Peugeot wagons can be read here. Do check it out if you missed it the first time!
Some wags may say the top photo in the ad above is what a 504 looked like after a couple of years; in fact, these were very robust cars, and very well engineered. It seems as though the Federalization process, especially the emissions equipment, took a lot of the goodness out of these cars. That’s a shame, as they were very reliable and well-loved in their home country. The 504 CC can be found here.
So where did these ads come from? Back in 6th grade, I found a bunch of old Time magazines on a shelf in the coat closet of our classroom, and Mr. Spilker, our science teacher, gave a friend and me permission to harvest some car ads from them. I still have them all, including probably a couple hundred from the 1971-1976 time period–Volvo, VW, Cadillac, Audi–you name it–so I just might have to unearth some more in the future. But just for today, let’s remember when we had a lot more variety among imports here in the States!
The US car market has always been poorer with the absence of French automobiles. And, to me, Peugeot’s were always the dullest. Chevrolet translated by the French. Now, if you’ve got any American ads for Citroen or Renault . . . . . . . . . .
Does that includes tv ads? 😉 I spotted one vintage Renault Alliance ad on Youtube.
amazing cars man.i have been driving a 504 diesel(1979,4speed)for almost 30 years.bought it with 45k miles on clock&now has 469k miles as of this morning.still on stock XD2(dry sleeve)motor&just 2 clutches,2 water pumps,3 alternators&1 starter,the rest jusr things like battery,belts,brake pads(4wheel disc).PEUGEOT should have kept this in production instead of switching to front wheel drive.
They only just stopped production in Iran of the petrol version and even installed the engines into the Paykan(Hillman Hunter). Tough cars indeed.
Oui that and Pininfarina as their house designer. I take my hat of for you and make a deep bow la 504 Diesel I have fond memories of.
“After 50,000 miles of wear nothing was worn out.” No, it just fell apart.
Or, in the case of the one we had in my family in the late ’60s it catches fire…
Did these have the ceramic fuses with the external copper strip on them?
Did they hire Joe Isuzu to do the layout of the top ad? Yes, the wagon was a foot longer, but that one is positioned behind the sedan to be almost two feet longer. And I confirmed that by using the 14″ rim as a frame of reference.
If that’s a six inch longer wheelbase, then those tyres are the size of a Johnny Halliday LP.
The first Peugeot 504 ad also states that the Peugeot 504 was the only car to offer a diesel engine as an option; not true. At the time, Mercedes-Benz offered the 300TD Touring wagon, and Volkswagen offered diesel engine for their Passat (Dasher) and Golf (Rabbit). So perhaps Joe Isuzu (or someone similar to him) who is either a liar, or doesn’t know a thing about cars put the ad up.
t says “the only station wagon offered with a diesel”. That ad is from 1975; the W123 T wagon wasn’t out yet, in the US anyway. And the VW diesel wasn’t out yet either. They weren’t lying.
Ah! Ok. Unfortunately, I didn’t notice what year the ad was printed, otherwise, I’m sure I would’ve noticed. Thanks for the correction. 🙂
Canadian spec 504 sedans had the impact bumpers, but retained the European headlamps and had practically no emission controls on them. Here’s a “postcard” picture.
I sure don’t miss those dorky, slow Renault Alliances that were all over Chicago and Kensoha area in the early 80’s. I called them “Dweeb-mobiles”, 80’s slang ‘totally’.
Love those vintage 504 ads. I found a couple online, and the one that really struck me is “In Europe, we’re called the French Mercedes”. @504ever: mine (1979, ZF3) only has 128,000 miles, happy to know I can count on many more years of slow cruising… 😛
great looking Peugeot you have there,it will last you for ever as long as you keep up with the maintanance.have fun.
Weren’t the 504 sedans the terrors of the Paris-Dakar Rally in their day? Say what you will about reliability in the U.S. spec Peugeots but nothing had a smoother ride (statement qualifier: I have never ridden in a Rolls Royce).
We had a family friend who was the president of an oil drilling company and could afford any car he wanted. His wife drove a very nice Cadillac Fleetwood. He drove a Peugeot 604, black with a tan interior. It was a stately looking automobile.
The 504s in sedan and coupe form were quite successful in African rallies in the early 70s (Bandama, Côte d’Ivoire), but there were a few 504 wagons and pick-ups with Dangel 4×4 conversions at the Paris-Dakar around 1980-85, ran by private teams IIRC. A few years afterwards, Peugeot group recycled their Group B rally monsters (205 T16, later 405 T16 and Citroën ZX) successfully in the Paris-Dakar.
I have ridden in a couple of Rolls Royces and sorry a Peugeot is preferable despite RR licence building Citroen’s hydro pneumatic suspension they are too much of a floaty barge compared
Having once owned a near-catastrophically unreliable 504, I laughed darkly at the “nothing worn out” ad. But upon inspection this all-taken-apart picture reveals the difference between the basic Peugeots that ran so well worldwide, and the Americanized disasters they tried to push on us.
Unlike my 504, this car is a diesel (my gas engine blew its head gasket at 40k miles), without the ZF automatic (full replacement shipped by slow freighter from Paris), power steering (failed), power brakes or air conditioning. R&T probably drove it in the Southwest, free from the rust that killed my first 504.
French cars were built for France, Europe and the tropical world, where by all reports they were fine cars.
Finally I laughed out loud at the ad Google chose to accompany my trail of tears. “Way #1: Don’t Buy a Peugeot!”
PS: My ’78 504 from hell was used from a dealer, a two-year leased car driven by a salesman. Was it cared for properly? Evidently not.
But that’s actually part of the point. Peugeotphiles seemed to avoid the power accessories and they cared for their cars by the book. Even back then Americans expected an occasional oil change and tuneup was all a car needed. Cars sold here need to meet that expectation. The Japanese certainly understood it.
la 504.
How many stories you guys wanna hear?
Perhaps the best one was my company Estate Diesel in november in Rotterdam Port, delivering papers onboard an Egyptian freighter (some containers too)
When I left the ship I saw a couple of guys near my 504 and the ship’s loading beam hanging over my 504.
They were preparing to load it and sent me back to the Captain.
When i came to see the Captain he apologized said: Yes, that’s true, how much you want for it?
I saw it this afternoon and it looks in much better shape then any 504 I can buy back home, this one has not travelled the Sahara desert
(504 were really pulled of the junkyard, prepared and DRIVEN to Dark Africa crossing over in Spain to Morocco)
I had to convince him I needed the car, it was not mine but the company’s.
When I told my boss this story the very next day he said to me : You idiot !
it did 150000 k, it is a leased car and we would have split the cash 50/50 and we’d reported it stolen in a week or two.
Here’s a video from the early eighties where a couple of Dutch guys bring two ex-scrapyard 504’s across the Sahara to sell them in Mali.
Like a Dutch guy I once met in Tamanrasset Algeria who was bringing a 404
Only the Dutch …………………..
Great video!
This stirs a lot of memories: my parents drove a 504 GL from France to Benin through the Sahara back in ’81. A 33 year old pic for your pleasure:
Great story!
As an American who has only ever owned Peugeots (2 504s, 3 505s, 5 405s,
1 604 and my current car, a 605 (see below for a picture and then ask me how it is I can own and drive it here in the US) I must to take issue with the comment that Peugeots are dull. Peugeots are subtle, but never dull.
Until you own a Peugeot, their subtle brilliance will escape you. Peugeot manages to bake into every model they bring to market a certain “Peugeot-ness” that is hard to define. One recognizes what it is the moment you get out of a Peugeot and into any other car. You’ll miss the qualities, I promise you. They’re a cluster of qualities perhaps unique in the industry it’s softness and hardness struck in BALANCE where the one doesn’t dominate the other. It’s the way you SIT in a Peugeot (their seats are the best in the business), it’s the neutral way they handle yet still soak up road surface irregularites (very long wheel travel combined with shock absorbers that Peugeot makes only for themselves), it’s the rock solid way they hold their line as they waft down a straight freeway and it’s the way the steering communicates with you. Buy a Peugeot in a manual and you will swear the horsepower rating is significantly underrated. And drive it HARD, because the French drive their cars hard and a Peugeot responds best to hard driving (and regular maintenance). In fact, I believe a good deal of the problems Americans encountered with Peugeot’s were mostly the result of US owner’s failing to follow the maintenance schedule as prescribed by Peugeot. The French observe a car’s maintenance schedule because it economical in the long run to do so. And the French are frugal.
In summation, Peugeot’s are just so very French (not perhaps the type of French Citroen and Renault sold, but rather the other one: the solid, bourgeoisie Frenchman.
The very fact that a Peugeot’s subtlety is lost on most Americans is reason enough for me to love them very much.
@Ken –
I’m going to digress here and say that Peugeot does not have the best seats in the business. That honor belongs to Volvo. I’m a lifelong Volvo enthusiast (I have two 740s, an ’86 and a ’91, and a ’96 850) and I place a premium on seat comfort because I do a lot of long-distance driving when I go on vacation. Over the years, I have found that Volvo’s front seats offer the best comfort and convenience for safety-oriented drivers and travelers like myself.
I have sat in Peugeot seats before. A friend of mine in high school had an ’89 505 S sedan. We took a trip in it once. I felt that the seats in that Pug felt like the ones in a Mercedes W123 – hard like a park bench. Not comfortable at all.
Well, having grown up with both a 140 Series Volvo and then a 505, I’ll say that they both have wonderful seats.
I agree, Ken, my nightmare 504 was a wonderful car when it ran. Especially perfect on rolling two-lane country roads. The brakes are so good and offer such control they certainly saved me and my family from a truck T-bone one day.
Well Ken, then how the hell did you manage to get one registered in the auto-xenophobic US of A? And do you happen to be driving a 205 GTI as well?
Well, the first 605 was built in 1989, so I’m guessing through the 25-year exemption.
During a visit by my sister and BIL we went for a local drive and drinks in their rental a new XR6 Falcon but after riding in it I decided my car was much more quiet and comfortable despite being 10 years old and having quarter million kms on it and yes I was driving a Peugeot a 406 but it had no rattles and rode beautifully compared to a near new Ford.
” I believe a good deal of the problems Americans encountered with Peugeot’s were mostly the result of US owner’s failing to follow the maintenance schedule as prescribed by Peugeot. The French observe a car’s maintenance schedule because it economical in the long run to do so.”
This is the same lame excuse I hear for every European car that falls apart on this side of the pond. While I have only owned German, Ive worked on many of the rest. The majority of repairs have been on items outside the maintenance schedule.
Typical European rubbish !
Can anyone explain me why a Peugeot 504 seems to fall apart on North American ground only and not on the rest of the whole damn planet ?
Paul explained it in his Curbside Classic on the 504. Basically, the additional equipment found on the North American cars was prone to failure.
Here’s the full explanation: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-european/curbside-classic-1976-peugeot-504-one-continents-french-mercedes-and-coty-is-another-continents-most-rugged-vehicle-is-another-continents-pos/
The condensed version? Different equipment (A/C, automatics, power steering), lots of complex and poorly developed smog equipment, American’s tendency to drive lots of miles and stretch out maintenance schedules (if at all), and a very sketchy dealer network.
The 504s were easily overloaded with all the extra equipment and smog controls, which led to overheating, warped heads, etc………
The basic car was well engineered, but all of the ancillary equipment was often poorly engineered and flimsily built. BTW, this general issue applied to all french cars in the US to some degree or another.
The folks that keep French cars on the road for a long time here learned their cars’ quirks, and how to deal with them. But that didn’t apply to the typical American buyer, who was clueless, as well as many mechanics.
OK, thanks.
The engineers developing the US-specific equipment back then seem to have been operating to a different set of ethics from the rest of the company – or were they? According to what I hear from Peugeot-driving friends, the new ones aren’t as reliable as that old 504, and it tends to be ancillary systems rather than the main mechanical elements that lets them down.
I had to smile at the 504 wagon ad. Having ridden in both the second and third row seats in one, these things are absolutely incredible. You really feel like you are in a technically-superior conveyance. They sure don’t make them like that any more.
A mate had a 407 wagon. Long, low and spacey-looking; not exactly a squared-off sedan, but most definitely not designed for easy loading! I was going to take some photos for the Cohort, but last year he traded it on a 508 wagon which he is much happier with after the dealer found and fixed a fault with one of the emission subsystems (forget which). But that thing is so staid it looks like an Audi! Maybe they need something stylistically between the two extremes. – after they fix those emission controls….
My dad’s 2nd wife had a 504 wagon that she let me drive. It was a 4 speed gasser. My girlfriend and I took it on a road trip from Seattle to Lake Pend Oreille, Idaho one Fall in 1988.
What I loved about that beast is that it handled really well. Not just for a wagon. It wasn’t fast, but with the 4 speed I could wring out what horsepower there was to good enough effect.
It was reliable on that trip. We stumbled upon a neo-Nazi compound while looking for Forest Service roads to drive on. It kept us moving along and out of trouble.
The seats were nice too. Especially that roomy back seat.
I am old enough to remember when these were common here; in fact old enough to remember my parents test-driving a 403. But every time I see a Fiat 500 (1.4 liter front wheel drive, not Cinquecento or Topolino) I can imagine stranger things than a return of Peugeots to the US.
My friend often drove his parents’ 504 in the mid-70’s. One time we had it in Reno with his dog (rescuing my sister’s Cortina, but that’s another story). We left the dog in the car and it turned on the headlights, which were actuated by pushing down on the LH steering column stalk. No twisting required. We returned to the car to find a dead battery. At least it only needed a jump. The Cortina needed a transmission. In my limited experience the Peugeots of that era may have seemed dull – skinny tires, always 4 doors, no real motorsports heritage aside from African rallies – but always drove with panache.
My mom was traumatized back in the late ’60s when our Peugoet caught fire on the freeway. To this day she still hates the damn things. Citroens, on the other hand, she has plenty of fond memories of the several we had. As do I.
here is my dad’s 76 504(gas,4ontree)with over 890ooo km on original motor.he is the first owner&been the most reliable car ever.amazing quality that we can not find in disposable new cars.
That is 553,000 miles. Amazing. Iran?
@Ken –
Is the Peugeot 605 featured in the following article the one that you bought?
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130717/CARNEWS01/130719843
My dad’s wife held on to her 504 wagon for as long as she could. She was a librarian at the UW and it seemed like the perfect car for her. She finally replaced it with a Focus wagon. Peugeots may have been the French Mercedes, but she was a child of Holocaust survivors. It was enough that it was French.
Here’s a confession: I owned a 1980 Renault LeCar. I know. It’s probably the most maligned French car ever allowed into the states, but I have no complaints…except, of course, that it rusted out from under me after about eight years of daily use. I was seriously thinking toward the end of the car’s life that it was going to collapse altogether the next time I slammed the rear hatch down. When I opened said hatch, I could see most of the gas filler pipe, the body around it being long gone. BUT: While it held together, it never let me down, never stranded me, got good mileage and was about as comfortable to ride in–even on long roadtrips–as anything I’ve ever owned. Those seats and the soft suspension–so characteristic of French cars–were delightful. Don’t know if I’d buy another one (hold your laughter) but I enjoyed it while it lasted.
Don’t feel bad, there’s a great article by Roger Carr on the 5 posted just a few days ago.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-european/curbside-classic-1979-renault-5gtl-so-influential-so-right-except-for-one-thing/
Nice one, Tom. Volvo ads next please.
I too was a LeCar owner —
Ran my new ’82 for 10 trouble-free (but slow-lane) years.
Gotta love the 3 lug nut wheels. The dealer-installed roof rack (installed with wood screws) carried a wind-surfer all summer long..
The full -sized spare (145-13) lived next to engine, under the hood; and all I needed was a Phillips-head to replace a rectangular sealed-beam with a new one from Pep Boys …. for $15.
Mais oui !
I had a 504 for a while , typical weird French car but never any troubles once I fixe the siezed secondary carby .
I sold it to some poor Women I knew and they needed almost FIVE YEARS to kill it via neglect but loved it dearly and cried when they junked it .
I worked for an Indie Poo-Joe Garage in the early 1970’s two grouchy old French brothers ran it , taught me that these and most all Peugeot’s are in fact pretty good cars like my Father’s ’59 sedan (rusted out in 1965) and his beloved Diesel Wagon .
-Nate
It’s unforgivable that the Peugeot was discontinued in the USA when they were. Were they perfect? No, but then what car is?
Watch any new car ad on TV (Mercedes and Lexus especially) and they will vaguely try to tell you “We’re perfect! We Rule, All Others Drool!”
The biggest problem by that point was their pricing. The 405 cost Accord money in Europe but here it was priced against the 3-series.
I remember an ad from the 1980s for the 505 featured tennis player Vitus Gerulaitis driving one with his dad.
And my dad got the 1983 505 STI Silver Edition – had all the goodies on it.
In some markets, the Peugeot 504 was also available in pick-up truck/ute/bakkie. Here a collection of photos from IMCDB
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Peugeot_model-504+Pick-up.html
The older 404 got even a longer lifespan as a bakkie in South Africa.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ifhp97/4715920613/in/photolist-8bJjU6-dqmrKg/
A friend’s parents had a 74 504 sedan automatic. He remarked that it was really slow. I rode in it a couple of times, front seat and back, it felt very solid and the seats were comfortable and it was very smooth riding. I don’t recall exactly the problems except for his mother mentioning the power steering had to be repaired. His dad drove a Rabbit diesel. Mom was French, Dad was German and his sister was beautiful. They had it for about 10 years. I liked it.
The sister?
Rode to high school in one of these in the late 70’s. Very comfortable and a real odd ball on the road. It replaced a 71 Pontiac LeMans Safari. My friend’s Dad loved it!
As of 2019, you can’t buy an actual French-branded car in the US, but you *can* buy a French-built car – the Toyota Yaris hatch is made in France.
Was.
It was discontinued without replacement at the end of the 2018 model year with a cryptic “watch this space” from Toyota. I expect “this space” will be filled by a hatchback version of the Yaris sedan (a Mazda 2 made in Mexico), but the world is due for an all-new B segment Toyota on the TNGA platform.
Oh. Oops.
No more French Yaris, and soon, no more British Civics. But you can still get a French-built Bugatti here.
I imagine people cross-shop Civics and Bugattis all the time.
I had a 505 diesel wagon as a daily driver/only car until about 6 months ago. Other than the concern of some unobtainable part going south, it was a fantastic car. With at least 230k on it, it still felt very tight, with no rattles.
I remember seeing a few Peugeots around as a kid in the late 80’s/early 90’s in the neighborhood I grew up in. I am from a small town southern Louisiana that has a very large military base so there were/are quite a few foreign vehicles riding around town. Peugeots were strange looking cars back then and they really stood out in the sea of American pickup trucks that dominate the roads of rural Louisiana.
I had a very used 505 turbo diesel for a while, it was a real conundrum. Some things were exceptionally good, others were such incredible crap that it boggles the mind. Best seats and ride ever. 3 speed ZF automatic? not so good. The cable arrangement for the throttle and trans kickdown was a joke. Piss poor motor design that was guaranteed to leak copious amounts of oil from the front plate behind the timing chain. It did run well and I have heard that they would start in well below freezing temps where its contemporaries would not. The electric fan clutch was junk. Great brakes. The casting and machine work on the rotors was beautiful. Screw on grease caps with an o ring seal. Cheezy cable for the sunroof. Leaky PS rack. Overall a stripper model with a stick would be a great car. A wagon would be even better. Are the new Pugs even close to having the same driving feel? I kind of want to find a 504 diesel and hang the turbo stuff from the 505 on it.
Funny that today Peugeot announced officially they will be back to North America by 2026.
Good luck to them. Hopefully it will turn out better than Fiat’s return to the US. Unfortunately, Peugeot doesn’t have strong brands like Jeep and Ram. Sure, they’ll have CUVs, but without much brand recognition outside of enthusiasts.
French cars are like nothing else, the ride and seats are superb. Owned an ’81 504 diesel 4 spd wagon in the ’80s. It was glacially slow but actually fun to drive. Only 6-7 years old when the rust started and MD isn’t exactly known for harsh winters but the occasional salt exposure began to take it’s toll relatively quickly. Kind of miss it from time to time, I’d even consider a French car if they came back to the US of A.
Peugeot will spearhead PSA’s American comeback
https://leftlanenews.com/2019/02/26/peugeot-will-spearhead-psas-american-comeback/
4.9 million cars listed for sale on cars.com. No results for Peugeot at all in the US. None left or do people love them more than their mothers and won’t part with them?. Most likely the previous. How about a Twingo?
A racing ad I had saved.
Pleased to read (on this article) that others share my less-than-stellar opinion of French cars in America.
(At the risk of repeating myself:) It always bemuses me that cars that do so well in Europe do so badly in the USA.