(first posted 5/4/2016) In America mainstream sedans for most part had two door variants of almost all their models. If you were looking for something a cheaper or perhaps a bit sportier looking a two door was available. European and Australian manufacturers did not always offer this choice especially on the non-entry levels models. I have retroactively and electronically corrected this oversight. Follow along to judge if it is a success.
Here is a the donor Holden FC sedan. Sadly only offered as a four door sedan. I think my two hardtop conversion looks rather nice.
What about a later 1964 Holden EH? Nice looking sedan but how would it look with two less doors?
Maybe not as successful as the FC but this EH two door does remind me a bit of a mashup of a Ford Falcon and a Rambler.
Let us head to Germany next. Mercedes made some convertibles and overtly sporty coupes but two door sedans were plenty thin in the sales catalog during the Ponton 190’s era.
Behold the Mercedes Benz 190 coupe. Looks pretty decent if I say so myself. Some height was taken out of the roof and body so it would not have been an easy conversion in metal.
Heading over to France the Simca Aronde was quite low and slick looking already even as a four door.
I am not one hundred percent happy with the execution of this one but you get the idea. Could have been one neat looking two door.
The Simca Vedette of 1958 with its scaled down American car styling is a natural to receive door removal surgery.
It definitely could have been a looker.
We should not leave the British out of this party. Austin in particular generally did not offer two door variants of their bigger cars.
A little unconventional looking perhaps but the styling still works on this Austin A60 Cambridge in my opinion.
The most American looking of the British manufactures is likely Vauxhall. This base model Velox could have certainly done with the option of a two door variant.
The more expensive Cresta likely would suit the two door body style even better.
The smooth riding Rover P4 was known as the “Auntie Rovers”.
A door deletion perhaps reveals that Auntie has a slightly more spicy side. And while we are at it why not fit one of the experimental turbine engines too?
Perhaps one of the more stodgy marques Humber likely would have never considered a two door variant on their Super Snipe. This ad with its lower and longer than real life rendering makes a good start for a conversion.
Given the result maybe Humber should have offered a two door. Cutting the roof line down a bit helps the look as well.
So did any of the these two doors work for you? Did these manufacturers miss an opportunity by playing it safe? Let me know if there would be any other slam dunk two door conversion candidates.
A Rover P5B coupe was requested. Here in four door form.
And now with two doors.
Always interesting the versions NOT made! Of course Hillman did offer a coupe version of their ‘Audax’ saloon in the form of the Rapier and Ford made the first Capri out of the Classic, but they were very much the exceptions.
Nice work! And I would take that M-B 190 coupe in a heartbeat.
These are GREAT! Thanx, David.
Nice work indeed! The 2-door FC ends up reminding me of a Borgward Isabella TS for some reason. My pick would be the Vedette–definitely a looker in 2-door form.
I’d also like to see an *actual* Rover P5B coupe as opposed to their use of “coupe” to denote the less formal roofline on the sedan.
Come to think of it, they were using the modern meaning of “coupe”. Did they start this dastardly trend??
I suppose as there was less height of roof it was cut/coupe, but not in the usual manner. It certainly fits with the recent applications.
A P5 coming at you down a narrow two-way street was certainly an invitation to pull over! With that big grille and low window line it was a mean looking beast.
Might not get to all the requests but how does this one strike you?
Beauty!
Very tasty. You should (and can) add it to your post, if you like.
Very nice!
Updated!
Very nice indeed! Clearly Rover should have offered these.
Chris, like you and many others, I always thought of a coupé as any closed close-coupled two door car with a “B” pillar until I came across this a few years ago:
“The SAE distinguishes a coupé from a sedan primarily by interior volume; SAE standard J1100 defines a coupé as a fixed-roof automobile with less than 33 cubic feet (0.93 cubic meters) of rear interior volume. A car with a greater interior volume is technically a two-door sedan, not a coupé, even if it has only two doors.”
At least this provides an empirical measurement. Don’t know if the modern four door “coupés” meet this standard or not, but this is the definition that the Society of Automotive Engineers came up with.
Frankly, the SAE is off base. Picking an arbitrary interior volume is silly/absurd. I thought these guys were engineers, which should have led to a rational definition.
The origin of coupe is to “cut away”. My definition of a coupe is that its roof line/height/length/shape/pressing is clearly different than the corresponding 4-door sedan. On the other hand, a 2-door sedan shares the same basic roof line/shape/size/pressing as the 4 door sedan.
Which is why 4 door coupes are legitimately coupes if they have a different roof structure/height/shape/size/pressing.
That’s a much more obvious and logical definition, if I do say so myself. 🙂
An arbitrary interior volume is silly, but probably allows for a 4 door coupe. However, who exactly is policing this, and what are the penalties for infractions of the rules?
My opinion is that if there is a 4 door sedan/coupe, then a 2 door variation is either a sedan or coupe depending on whether the rear seat space is the same as the 4 door or less than the 4 door. If the manufacturer is calling the 4 door a coupe, then probably the 2 door should be called that too, but then we are faced with who is the police to enforce the rules.
Back in the 60’s the 4 door hardtops were different than the pillared 4 doors, and some of GM’s hardtops were offered with a couple of 4 door hardtop designs (six window and four window).
I really think the whole idea of a 4 door coupe is goofy, except for things like the RX-8.
SAE stands for Society of Automotive Engineers initially, but engineers don’t always have much of a logic, and too often the logic gets worse after undergoing the engineering education.
While most (perhaps all?) manufacturers like to reference the SAE standard for their engine horsepower rating, saying that their coupe meets the SAE standards for a coupe is somewhat useless.
Nice work, David. Especially so on the A60, which sports a very appropriate variation of the Pininfarina coupe roof line that graced so many of his coupes.
The Vedette is particularly handsome. Oddly, the Cresta doesn’t work so well for me.
Minor amusing little detail: the shadow behind the Super Snipe coupe now doesn’t match the actual car. 🙂
The FC Holden and the ’58 Vedette conversions are awesome, but in other cases the wheelbase is shortened too much, IMO.
The Austin “coupe” looks like an A40 of the late 50s with the split tailgate swapped for a trunk a la Rabbit/Golf into Jetta.
The rest of the cars here are very well done, but in my opinion removing 2 of the Mercedes 4 doors just makes a stodgy 4 door into a stodgy 2 door and (to me, anyway) proves you can’t always make a car sportier by removing 2 of it’s doors.
I think a pillarless approach might work best with the PA:
I think so. It looks a bit busy with too many pillars close together otherwise.
Not on that model though, they are notoriously weak the later PAX and PASX were much stronger and solidly built.
Personally I do prefer the slightly later ones with the single wrap round rear screen and the bigger front grilles, but before they changed the rear lights, so circa 1960.
That was the PAY it still had the small brakes 13 inch wheels and 2.2 six the body got reinforced some for the extra torque of the 2.6 motor along with 14 inch wheels and bigger brakes for MY 61
Nice! I like the Vedette as well. It is what the designers of the 57 Studebaker were probably wishing their car had come out like.
I really want the Humber Super Snipe 2Dr!
Humber did a Super Snipe two door… pickup!
Of those personally I feel the Holdens work the best, closely followed by the Rovers. I get a Holden magazine, and a couple of issues back there was a HD or HR Holden coupe in South Africa of all places. Turned out to be a rather well put together hoax, but also an interesting what if
http://www.streetmachine.com.au/features/1512/the-chev-powered-opel-and-the-great-hr-coupe-hoax/
Holden themsleves actually planned an HR Holden coupe
http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/hr-holden-coupe-was-planned-20104
Regards
Peter
The restyle of the HR Holden was done rather hastily AFTER the HD was released and proved so unpopular, if you wanted a two door Holden in FC or EH you bought a ute or panelvan, I admit both look ok but probably would not have sold well enough to be worth bothering with, two door sedans dont sell down under as Ford GMH and Chyrsler found when they produced some,
I think you are right, that the manufacturers of these sedans had a good idea of what the market place wanted, and 2 doors were probably not expected to sell well enough to make them profitable.
Not sure of it’s history, but there used to be a 2 door EJ Holden running around Shepparton,Vic 20-25 years ago. It was farily rusty at the time, so obviously an older conversion.
Yeah all primered up I think Ive seen that around Mooroopna.
Somewhere in the early 90s a mate of mine Big Gus lobbed into Mooropna to do the pears he camped with me behind the Cannery in the van park, he had a very tired EJ sedan with a burnt valve and five fuming cylinders we hunted high and low for another motor and found nearly every EJ in the GV area and that huckery old two door was among some in a back yard but not for sale or wrecking
Never did fix that EJ it made it to Batlow chugging on five and got sold to some local who wanted to restore it, yeah good luck with that.
All cool.
The 2-dr Rover P5, one or more exists, photos on the web; I thought maybe done by Panelcraft as were the convertibles but, hmm, perhaps not.
The Rover P4 2-dr might have made the Marauder superfluous.
Thought about this myself from time to time, especially an MG Magnette ZB, or Riley One-point-five.
Interesting to hear of the 2dr P5.
Here is a Magnette. Not perfect by any means but you get the idea.
The Simca Aronde did have a 2-door version and hardtop coupe no less. First called “Grand Large” https://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/cars/simca/53435/view/simca_aronde_90a_grand_large_2-door_hardtop_%281954%29/
And a later reskinned model known as the P60 Monaco
https://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/cars/simca/53446/view/simca_aronde_p60_monaco_2-door_hardtop_%281960%29/
One might also say the the 190 sedan had the 190SL as a coupe.
Rover P6 Graber coupe, anyone?
*drops this here*
Beautiful work on all of these, but for contemporary sales you really need to focus on the SUV/crossover variations, I’d say. Jack that Simca up a foot, add some huge tires, some plastic cladding, and you’re golden. 😉
How about the Rover 3500 made in the mid-1960s until 1974?
Graber did a very nice P6 coupe
https://driventowrite.com/2020/04/12/graber-rover-p6-2000-tc/
Unfortunately, the American car companies have gone the 4 door route as well. The only 2 door cars are Mustangs, Cameros, Corvettes, and Challengers. Where is the 2 door Charger? How about the NASCAR cars that are only available as 4 door models? (or even RWD for that matter) The old adage of “What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday” has gone away. The racers are all based on 4 door cars that are FWD.
Two doors were never that popular untill the rise of the hatchback In Europe.Think.of the Fiat 127. Why. Because the front passenger has to get out to let the rear ones out. Impractical with the larger euro familys. Two door sedans dont have the sporting or personnel reputation that they have in the US . The only Volvo 240 two door I ever saw ,in the UK was an ex GI owned in a local car auction.
Were European families significantly larger than US ones in the immediate postwar era?
Two doors were near universal in some countries, like Germany, which strongly preferred two door Opels and Fords even when four doors were available. Obviously VWs were all two doors until the 411. The Golf two door sold very well. The Kadett was not available as a four door until some years after it started, and then that model sold very poorly. And the station wagon versions of all the German cars were almost invariably two door, even when a four door sedan existed.
The Fiat 500, 600, 850, and their derivatives all were two door. As of course was the Mini.
The French seem to have been the most virulent anti-two door country, and the Germans the opposite. Hmm.
It was a regional thing.
Everyone of these coupes break a rule of manufacturing cost saving. By shortening the cars you need a new frame – cars would sell better as 2 door sedans on same wheelbase.
The Rover P5, Vedette, and Velox are very good looking
Love the Holdens and the P5B. Excellent job!
The only one I disagree with is the Rover P4; I think it looks stodgier and more generic without the suicide doors.
By the way, the Holden “Special” badge on the rear quarters of the older Holden is the one that GM put on the mechanical testing prototypes of the Corvair, to disguise it as an Australian project.
Would that be Lapchik The Mad Hungarian from Gumball Rally?
Not guilty. Though it sounds like it would be fun to be him.
That “Rover P4” looks like “Sigfried’s ride” in “All Creatures Great & Small”!
The P5 is the looker! Great job, and one Rover should have built. I’ve done a few similar works, but I’ve stuck to pure profile pictures. I’m lazy