(first posted 9/9/2017) Some of you may have seen a recent article of a startup intercity bus company that plans to offer “capsule hotel” type overnight bus service between LA and San Francisco – it’s called “Cabin.” According to the article, “The company wants to change people’s travel experience by giving them the chance to reclaim their time by merging transportation and accommodation into one experience. ” A statement that could have been just as easily been made in the late 1920’s/early 1930’s. We’ll review Cabin in a moment, but let’s first take a look at the original overnight sleeping bus – the Pickwick Nite Coach.
The Pickwick Nite Coach was produced by Pickwick Corporation, a major transport operator in Southern California in the teens and twenties. The company used the Pickwick Theater, and later the Pickwick Hotel, both in San Diego, as their informal terminal and departure point, hence the name. It ran routes to and from LA south to San Diego and north to San Francisco. It was successful and expanded rapidly – and by the mid ‘20’s had extended north to Portland and east to El Paso, St Louis, and Chicago. In 1923, it established an in-house manufacturing division to build its own coaches; the Pickwick Motor Coach Works, Ltd., and selected Dwight E. Austin as its Manager. Austin, as many know, would go on to become a major influential figure in the transportation industry.
Austin had previously designed the innovative “Intercity Parlor Buffet Coach” for Pickwick in 1925, built off a Packard truck chassis. It had a small galley area where food could be prepared and served by an on-board steward. Note the added elevated “Pilot House” above the normal driver’s area – keeping with the nautical theme and giving the operator an expanded view of the road.
In 1928, Austin designed, and Pickwick produced, the first Nite Coach. This bus was 34 and a half feet long, 96 inches wide, and 10 feet tall – larger than any existing bus at the time. It came with a lavatory, a galley, and a steward. The engine, mounted in front in an Austin-designed “roll-in, roll-off” cradle, was a Sterling Petrel, a 779 cu in, 110 hp inline gas “flathead” six cylinder. Sterlings were mostly used in marine applications but I’ll hazard a guess and say it was likely the most powerful gas engine available at the time.
Rather than normal seating, the Nite Coach had 13 individual compartments that could hold 2 persons each. The compartments had seats that faced each other and were hinged. One would swing upward, the other downward, making an upper and lower sleeping berth.
In 1930, Pickwick introduced its Duplex Day Coach, a modification of the Nite Coach. It could carry 53 passengers, with power supplied by updated versions of the Sterling Petrel or Hall Scott gasoline engines; both in the 150 hp range. I like those snazzy Woodlite headlamps.
Austin used a clean sheet to design the final Nite Coach model, brought out in 1933. This was the first coach to use his innovative angle drive with a transverse engine mounted in the rear, and the drive shaft offset at an angle to the engine and rear axle. Austin would patent this method, and take it with him when he left Pickwick for Yellow Coach, and subsequently GM – where it would be used in almost every GM bus for the next forty years.
The new design again allowed for 13 sleeper compartments, but added an additional restroom (2) and a larger galley. Eighteen were made before production ceased in 1935.
Most were ultimately scrapped but it looks like one was modified and given an extended life in Mexico…
Cabin’s coach is a tad more modern and bigger – it’s a Van Hool 925TD – 45 feet in length, 102 inches wide, and 12 feet in height – this is definitely a big bus. Configured for passengers it can seat 81. Power in North America is a 6 cylinder Cummins ISX12 diesel, 11.9 Litres, 450 hp and 1650 ft lbs of torque. European models have DAF or MAN engines.
Each Cabin model has 24 “pods” that are similar to those found in capsule hotels in Japan – with TV, Wifi, and several USB outlets. A bus attendant can serve drinks and snacks and a small Lounge area is at the front of the bus if you can’t sleep and desire company. One way overnight service from LA to SF is currently $115.
The company says ridership is at forecasted levels and they are considering a NY to Boston route. I hope they consider changing the exterior livery though – it’s a little too dark for me.
More info:
Cool article about some bizarre buses. Here’s another variation.
I would have assumed the pickwicks compartments were set up similar to a Pullman section- fold down upper berth, and sliding seats making a lower berth.
The Pickwick’s concept made no sense in its day- almost all routes it ran were paralled by sleeper trains that ran at night and could provide its operators much larger economies of scale- an attendant per 24 person car, and a dining car for both sleeper passengers and coach passengers. Or in the case of today’s Amtrak Superliners an attendant per 40 person sleeper, an attendant per two 72 passenger coaches, and so forth.
But today, with the skeletal overnight system, there are markets (like a Frisco-LA overnight) that make sense and are not serviced. NYC-BOS will likely not work as Amtrak intends to restore sleeper service between those cities sometime next year.
In addition to competition from overnight trains, what were the conditions of the roads? How about performance – how fast could the buses go?
I’m guessing since Santa Fe operated it, there were lines that weren’t served by its trains. I assume that the main purpose was to undercut train fares, in the case of Pickwicks operations, as well as to provide service by a train operator, like Santa Fe, on lines it didn’t serve so that passengers could be through-ticketed. Not unlike Lufthansa selling tickets on some train runs in Germany.
In any case, to say Pickwick’s concept “made no sense” is a bit strong. They were a very successful company operating in the hotel and transport business. Obviously, its appeal was somewhat limited, but Pickwick coaches were used for some time.
a bigger issue for the boston – new york route is distance. why would anyone take a sleeper? it’s just over 200 miles. during the day by car, it takes five hours, at night four. bus tickets are about $40.
My understanding is that it was intended to support air travel, which before the advent of Radar was more or less limited to daytime. Passengers would transfer from the plane to the coach which would travel through the night to arrive at the next airport at dawn. Please also remember planes were a lot slower back then. You could thereby reduce the amount it took to travel the great distances you have in the US. When you add this all up it does make sense.
Hmmm… No mention of the Cyclops! Swimming pool, bowling alley, and a piano lounge!
Nice to see there’s someone as old as I am that recognizes this movie:-)…..Jim.
http://www.thepetrolstop.com/2011/07/cyclops-big-bus.html
Prolly quite a few more than you realize =8-) .
I wonder why it never shows up on cable TV .
“Shoulders” =8-) .
-Nate
I’m probably not getting it exactly right, but loved the beginning where a voice booms. You’ve seen ships that sink, buildings that burn, blimps that go bang, and now you have the BIIIIIIIIGGGGGGG BUUUUUUSSSSSS!!!!!!
Thanks for this look at these unusual buses. I would love to actually see the inside of one of the later ones, to see how they were actually designed and built. I don’t think any were preserved, though.
Thanks Jim, timely and interesting as always.
That one converted for rail use is sitting on amazingly tiny rail, looks like 75-pound or so.
Amazing .
-Nate
A German company has been offering “rolling hotel” bus tours for years. I used to see them running up and down the coast of California in the 80’s, but haven’t seen any recently. Their clients are pretty much all Germans, as an L.A. Times article back then correctly stated that American tourists would never tolerate the cramped accommodations.
http://jalopnik.com/5497395/rolling-hotel-tour-bus-wants-to-sleep-with-you-on-the-road
Have seen these almost every year here in Vancouver, BC including this summer.
I had seen similar ones in Australian Outback during my first trip there in 1987.
Just saw that bus a couple of weeks ago on Vancouver Island (Canada). It was a Mercedes with European plates same colour and design. I would guess they are doing trips up to Alaska as there is a ferry from the top of the island that connects with the Alaska ferries in Prince Rupert I believe. If I had more time that day I would have stopped to talk to the driver as he looked bored waiting for the tourists to return from the local farmers market.
Rotel. Been around since the 70s or earlier. Usd to be very big, and we’d see them in Santa Monica.
Now that Trump is hoping to dismantle AMTRAK, I suppose we can continue lurching backward in time. I recently flew my family from LA to New Orleans and return and although the flight was about 3+ hours, we were so uncomfortable. At 6ft 3 in tall and 250 lbs, I was miserable. We usually take AMTRAK but all the sleeper cars were sold out! I enjoy sleeping on the train and eating in the diner as we roll. So what’s next, a cross-country “sleeper bus?” And if we run into a fuel shortage due to our Trump-pushed absence from the EPA (“I don’t believe in climate change!” Ask the survivors of Harvey, Irma and Jose), maybe we can roll out stage coaches again. Horses would have plenty to eat on the way…
One would think that Trump, a life-long New Yorker, would understand that the city benefits greatly from AMTRAK. For me and many others AMTRAK is the ONLY way in and out of New York.
My experience with Amtrak was pretty much disastrous. After putting up with so many issues (personnel and mechanical) on the trips from Denver to Flagstaff then to Los Angeles before ending up in San Francisco, I vowed never ever again. Eleven hours from Los Angeles to San Francisco due to freight trains having priorities over Amtrak. Geesh!
Yes, I admit to be biased because I am German and travel frequently with Deutsche Bahn ICE and Österreichische Bundesbahnen (ÖBB) Railjet. Both are centuries ahead of what Amtrak offers.
Sorry to hear that you had such a negative experience. We’ve had good luck with the Auto Train to Florida, but Amtrak does have a long way to go to meet European passenger rail standards.
Trying to compare Amtrak (other than the NE Corridor) with European trains is utterly futile; they’re two totally different things. Most Amtrak trains are not really intended to be viable long-distance transport; they exist because politically powerful folks don’t want them to go away, because it serves an important constituency: affluent older folks who use it as a quasi train-cruise, as well as providing transport to some smaller town that don’t have any other viable public transport.
Due to the distances involved, and the huge amount of freight that needs to be moved, long distance passenger trains will never escape that reality.
We’ll see how the high speed train being built in California works out.
When riding a train in the US, Germanic ideas of train operation must be totally abandoned, and one has to get in the spirit of how Amtrak works: a sort of rolling party/get-away, with no expectations about timeliness. It can be fun, in the right mind set. Sounds like you didn’t have it.
paul, as you noted, your explanation of amtrak’s woes may be true for the west but it doesn’t apply to the east coast. we have a desperate need for increased passenger rail. all of our major airports and roads are overloaded. amtrak is very popular with business travelers. the tracks here have a lot of issues that limit the maximum speed for acela bullet trains. one major problem is the dangerous tunnel that connects amtrak in manhattan to new jersey. 450 trains a day pass through the 100 year old tunnel. it’s a political nightmare:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/06/nyregion/cost-of-hudson-tunnel-project.html
I quite agree, and I’d love to see drastically greater investments in short-medium length high seed trains in the US. I was just pointing out why Amtrak is the way it is today, not that it shouldn’t be otherwise.
But passenger trains will not be viable on long distance routes for the foreseeable future, and Amtrak subsidizes the existing ones because they are mostly pleasure trips, not practical, efficient transport.
As much as I like the idea of Amtrak’s existing long-distance trains, it’s a bit hard to justify the large subsidy for them, given how they’re mostly used. But in the big picture, it’s peanuts. But a European shouldn’t expect these leisure-cruise Amtrak trains out West to be in any way comparable to the German trains.
Looking at this from the other side of the pond you also have to remember ÖBB (as well as the Postbus) is not yet another service provider, it is 100% state-owned and has more than 40,000 employees which, together with their spouses represent a very strong voting block. In fact the current Kanzler, Christian Kern, was appointed as such directly from being the ÖBB’s CEO – it is as if Amtrak’s CEO would have been appointed as the Democrats’ presidency candidate, which I suppose would have been a laughable idea in the US. To that extent, no sane administration will dare messing with it which is perhaps a good thing if you use it’s services on a regular basis (I do). The counter-argument is, of course, that it is (typically for a state-owned enterprise) losing money, bad thing if you pay taxes (I do). So far, I have not been able to make my mind up on whether it is a necessary evil or not… But the service is very, very good (not perfect. We do get cancellations and delays, believe it or not).
I shall in any case bear in mind your observations re. Amtrak should I ever visit the US…
Kind of the same story here in Norway too, trains are slow, but decent enough, and get you there eventually. We have the same issue as the US, most of the rail is freight, and population distances are much greater than say, Germany, or the UK.
you’re experience with amtrak is sadly not unusual. as a new yorker, i can tell you that they have a reputation for being unreliable.
First, let me thank you for another nice story on buses. Keep them coming! Having experienced passenger trains in France, Belgium and Italy, I totally understand people complaining about Amtrak, but you guys are blessed to have it, I mean, it can get a lot worse! And I’m talking from a Brazilian standpoint: we destroyed our whole passenger rail services (leave it alone, we destroyed most of our rail network), so now we’re left between really expensive flight services and inefficient, dangerous and slow buses. IMHO, for a continental countries like USA and Brazil, having a passenger rail network should be seen as a strategic issue.
This never went away. As I commented on a post about the Eagle 10, buses like this have always existed for entertainment touring.
Sure, the headliners get coaches that are effectively the fanciest RVs ever inside, but the production staff gets buses with bunks pretty much just like this.
Great article! Thanks for sharing history with us!
One things that strikes me about the Cabin bus compared to the earlier designs is the lack of windows. I know, the idea is that you’ll be asleep the majority of the time, but it would be nice to at least have the option of looking at the scenery from your pod if you can’t sleep, with a pull-down shade similar to on an airplane for want you want to go to sleep.
That was an unfortunate choice on the bus company’s part. I suppose it’s cheaper to make and install pods without windows, but you ‘re right that it’s a shame to miss the view.
I can assure that there’s little or no scenery worth looking at on I5 between LA and SF. Especially at night.
A a resident of the Sacramento area I am well aware of that. But does the Cabin bus just drive straight up I-5? Another story I’d heard about the service said they take a longer route and drive a bit slower in order to stretch the drive to 8 hours to allow enough time for a full night’s sleep. I’m not sure what that route is, though.
101 could be an alternate choice, and there actually is scenery.
Perhaps not beautiful scenery in the traditional sense, but what about the other cars? Who knows what intriguing CC possibilities you could spy from your cozy bus capsule? 🙂
Funny, in this post’s 9th image, the patent drawing like sketch of the angle drive arrangement… it’s as if the artist got the axle-to-engine orientation backwards so he just jammed the pinion shaft into the housing wherever it would fit. LoL
Yes, I thought the same thing. That’s not uncommon, as sometimes patent illustrators are not necessarily technically/mechanically minded. Anyway, if you goggle (sic) “Austin Utility Coach Patent”, there is an enlarged sectional split view of the two motion transfer units, showing the layout of the ring and pinion gears.
PhilipM, I “Goggled” and found that image. That’s about an accurate representation of the GM layout. After the ’04 model GM moved the angle-drive to the clutch housing; then the transmission’s center-line became in line with the drive shaft.
Next stop, Claustrophobia!
You’d think so, but I slept in a similar sized compartment on a boat on a tour of California’s Channel Islands a few years ago and it really wasn’t bad at all. And that was much less luxurious than these pods look.
I like the Cabin’s concept and wonder of the potential of it fitting into the self-driving vehicle scenario.
Sad to see the lack of passenger rail service in this country, and the lack of interest on the part of government that can’t see beyond airlines, cars and weaponry.
Night trains just for the purpose of using a traveler’s time wisely used to run all over the country, including up and down the west coast. Many carried the “Owl ” name.
Buses just carry a negative stigma for good reason. But for many, it is the only option. However, the “Cabin” service may just fill a niche that is timely, so who knows? Personally, I’d rather take the train if I could.
As far a windowless pods go, I would demand some sort of an “escape hatch” if something went wrong.
The lower berths in “Cabin” seem too close to the floor (Photos in ridecabin website).
The picture of the “pod” reminded me of the time I saw a Budd Slumbercoach at a railroad museum and I got to take a look around inside one of them. When I saw the rooms, I thought to myself, “This doesn’t look that much different from one of those ‘Capsule Hotels’ in Japan I’ve heard about.” (Pix from a brochure advertising Slumbercoach service on the New York Central RR.)
I have traveled in a Slumbercoach many times in the past, and they are totally self-contained rooms. They even have their own toilet, which is very nice. Not at all claustrophobic.
Your legs slip into a small 2′ x 2′ or smaller cavity, once you open the portion of the bed that forms the head end, and is quite comfortable. I’m only describing a single Slumbercoach room.
In addition to your private toilet, you also have a fold-down sink. The whole operation is very innovative, and the rooms are staggered due to the tunnel or cavity one’s legs and feet go into. The staggered windows show that.
I miss the Slumbercoach, and have also used the economy sleeper on the Superliners, but it doesn’t have a toilet or sink, however there is an on-board shower & dressing room downstairs, and taking a shower on a moving train is quite an experience!
I guess you can tell that rail is my preferred mode of travel!
(image is from OzarkMountainRailcar.com)
Pickwick itself was folded into the Greyhound bus juggernaut in the 1930’s. Pickwick was famous for two things. One was the duplex (double decker) bus, and the other was a notorious bus accident in 1930, when a bus (not a duplex) was run over by a train in New Mexico as the bus driver raced the train to a crossing and failed, leading to a huge loss of life. The inquest found that the bus driver had a woman passenger on his lap at the time of the accident.
It is understood that no Pickwick duplex buses have survived.
I have seen overnight buses in Argentina and Brazil that feature sleeping berths – they have had them for years. Bus travel is huge in Brazil and their long distance buses always look new and rather luxurious. Better than I gave seen in Australia, the US or Europe in fact.
Great, great article, Jim. Been fascinated by these since I first saw a picture of one.
When I lived in Beijing in the early 00’s I used to see a lot of double-decker sleeper buses on the 3rd Ring Road. They were anything but luxurious, though. Actually found it kind of unnerving to be riding beside one, with a series of blank faces looking out the windows at me.
I’m guessing Cabin went with no windows because their focus is sleep, but it would be really cool if they’d used some form of the glass technology that makes clear partitions opaque – but it might not be able to become fully light-proof.
As a New Yorker, very intrigued about the NY-BOS night train. Wonder if they’ll do it like some of the old night trains on shorter routes did and allow boarding at an earlier hour so riders can turn in before the train leaves? Either that or run it on a very slow carding…
These are fairly common in Asia. I have photographed the type in China. I have been a passenger in Laos and in Cambodia. The layout is double-deck double-bed bunks each side of an aisle. That is fairly cramped, and tricky for the wall-side passenger. For a premium, single occupancy is available.
I really enjoy seeing and reading about such outside of the box thinking. The closest I’ve ever seen was a gigantic Rotel bus in Yellowstone. Like Close Encounters of The Bus Kind I just stared at it until I noticed the curtains and finally made the connection. These buses are the antithesis of my time riding Greyhounds in the early 80s.
In the sixth image I noticed this very lovely lady peaking out a portal window and appears stuck in a mysterious half level John Malkovich style. She appears content by the way she is smiling though. Just another goofy observation.
I noticed that as well! I just can’t figure out how that would work. Hopefully those passengers got a discounted ticket. And even worse may be the experience of the ones who had to ride and use the lower level of portholes in that picture. Particularly the one just forward of the rear wheel. Insane.
Here you go. Floor 7 1/2. (and yes, that is Octavia Spencer…one of her first movie roles 🙂 )
Double-decker buses have always fascinated me – the Routemasters (original and new) are by far the most famous nowadays but there were so many others, and this one’s almost like a quad-level bus.