Our Nissan Quest minivan had been bought as a lightly used one year old vehicle. As the most expensive non-real estate purchase I had made, it was a little distressing to see its condition go downhill over the years. The main users were my wife and our three young boys, none of whom had any interest in keeping the van clean. A series of electrical and mechanical maladies convinced me there had to be a better solution. For a short time I found it in the cheap and potentially disposable minivan.
The Nissan Quest had a rather mixed record in our household. It was stylish (as a minivan could be), powerful and had served us well in its earlier years, but despite being a 2004 model, it was really starting to show its age. Front wheel bearings and excessive tire wear were becoming recurring issues. A massive appetite for brake components was a constant though its life. More worrying to me at least was seemly random and intermittent electrical failures that were becoming far too frequent. Due to their inconsistent nature, the cost of tracking down these issues could be massive. Even then, the van would have needed further mechanical work to get back in reasonable condition. So after the van briefly quit running a few times due to these electrical gremlins, I chose to sell it cheaply as a project vehicle.
I figured if I was going to be constantly repairing a vehicle, it might as well be a cheap one so we could cut our losses and walk away in the event of major repair. I doubt there is a cheaper vehicle pound for pound than a used minivan. There are, of course, a few reasons for this. The first factor is that they are in low demand as most folks would prefer a more macho looking SUV or CUV. Secondly, they are for the most part family work mules and the interior condition of most examples reflects this. The challenge is to find one that has not been thoroughly trashed inside and out without paying a premium for it. The first find was a 1997 Dodge bought from the original owner. The owner also happened to be a licensed mechanic so rather than negotiate on price, I managed to get him to include a fresh insurance safety inspection. If you have read my last few COALs (Mazda 808, Nissan Micra), you will realize this was potentially worth a few hundred dollars in bogus repairs and grief.
The van had only a hint of exterior rust but an immaculate interior. All the carpets had been covered in clear plastic carpet runners since new. The plastic had gone a little yellow from age but left the carpet underneath looking like it had just left the factory. I immediately tossed the plastic protectors since I figured we might as well enjoy the interior. At this stage in its life, there was no point having this van eventually head to the scrapyard with mint condition carpeting.
Our van had the smaller 3.3L V6 which was certainly a step down from the Nissan’s 3.5 liter VQ, but otherwise it drove very nicely. Strangely, the Dodge got noticeably better fuel economy than the Nissan had. This little mystery was later solved when the buyer of the Nissan let me know he had discovered a hole in the Quest’s gas tank! The Dodge performed faithfully as we drove it for just over a year with no repairs beyond normal maintenance.
I would have been alright with keeping the 1997 van a while longer, but my wife was operating a home daycare at the time and needed to swap child seats in and out on a semi-regular basis. The older 1997 van did not have the Latch system which greatly simplified this task. I managed to sell the older van for exactly what I had paid a year earlier, but was now challenged to find a newer and still clean replacement for almost the same money.
We had good luck avoiding the self-destructing transmissions these vans were famous for, so it made sense to roll the dice again on another. A likely candidate was a 2001 Dodge with a mere 142k kms on it. We did not have the luxury of knowing its owner history like the previous van, as the current owner had taken it in on partial trade for a trailer, but it appeared to be in nice shape. The van was also new enough to avoid dreaded insurance inspection. On our test drive contained a little dose of drama near the end when smoke started wafting out from under the hood. I quickly pulled and over diagnosed what looked to be a leaky valve cover that was dripping oil onto the hot exhaust manifold. Armed with this knowledge, I was willing to gamble on it for the right price and was able to strongly negotiate with the seller. We scored ourselves a second ultra-cheap and clean minivan.
While only a few years newer, the second Dodge van was certainly nicer than the older one with a more cheerful exterior colour, white faced gauges and lower mileage.
The engine was again the smaller 3.3L V6 which was peppy enough around town, though it did struggle a bit on steeper hills. When ordering a replacement gasket, the parts counter guy told me the factory valve cover gaskets are a bit of a trouble spot on these vans and there is a slightly more expensive aftermarket gasket that was worth investing in. It seemed to be solid advice, so I ordered the pricier gasket and set about replacement. The leaky front one was very easy to replace with super easy access. The rear one less so, which is normal with a transverse V6 engine. Thankfully, the new gaskets succeeded in turning the van from fire hazard to family hauler.
While this van was not covered in plastic, the interior was almost like new again. I am not sure how we got so lucky twice in a row.
I am not convinced that the rear seats were ever used. Certainly not regularly. Perhaps it belonged to an older couple who enjoyed the space and upright driving position?
We kept this van around for year or so before moving on again. In addition to oil changes, it did come to need a little spot of brake work but overall, it was very reliable. It was a bit of a struggle to sell this van, which I found surprising given the condition, but again I was able to sell it for what it owed us even with valve cover gasket and brake repairs factored in. Given this, I would have to call my “disposable minivan” experiment a total success. While I had been prepared to walk away from either in the event of a transmission failure, both had served flawlessly. They had both essentially cost us only insurance, maintenance and gas for just over a year each. Sadly there would not be a third act as my wife was wooed by the swan song of the giant “Mommy SUV” for her next vehicle.
I have been tempted to pull the trigger on a Caravan more than once. They are relatively cheap, plentiful, and have gobs of room. They drive pretty decently too, for what they are.
Then I think of transmissions. My mother-in law’s ’05 (they bought it new) spit out its trans last summer at about 78,000 miles. It also had all its front end components worn out, including the steering rack. Plus, it’s starting to rust through on the bottom of the rear wheel arches.
I’m glad it worked out for you; they are very useful vehicles. I just haven’t been willing to take that crap shoot (yet).
I’ve rented and borrowed quite a few Caravans and T&Cs over the years, and I like ’em a lot too. Like the way they look, like the way they drive (well, most of them. I drove a 2008 T&C that bounced and wallowed all over the road like a boat on an angry sea). Their weird quirks and flaws give them character that antiseptic Japanese vans don’t have. But I know several people who have owned them, some more than one, and they pretty much all report transmissions failing every 50,000 miles or so, with an assortment of smaller problems in between. No thanks. My first criteria for any vehicle purchase is reliability.
Thirty years after owning my first minivan (’84 Dodge Caravan C/V with a finished interior), I came back to the well once again. I’m a re-enactor (17th century), getting back into the historic costuming business that supported me during the 80’s and 90’s, still attending bicycle swap meets, and needing something more comfortable than either my Ranger or xB for long distance trips, and occasionally hitting race tracks with the fiancee for weekends. Which menas I needed a comfortable, load hauling, RV – with out the expense or complexity. Unlike my late wife, I don’t feel that a fully functional bathroom with flush toilet is necessary on camping weekends.
Of course that means a minivan, and last Monday I picked up a ’08 Kia Sedona LX. 93k on the clock, clean, obviously having seen a great deal of family use (and slight abuse). Upon bringing it home, the middle seats were permanently banished to the attic, the rear seat left in because it folded flush – and for racetrack weekends, with the rear seat up the storage well fit both of my folding bicycles very nicely for transportation around the infield.
Took it in to the local dealer (Richmond has a Kia dealership with a customer service attitude that can only be described as Lexus-like, they’ve taken care of Maggie’s ’06 with grace and honesty) for a $20 oil change and general check over. Of course, the oil change is the opening to upsell some service. What I got was a clean bill of health on the car, a couple of inexpensive minor points to touch up (which I gave them), and the notice that I’m going to need new tyres real soon now (which I knew and factored in to the negotiations at purchase time).
Used it heavily the first week to see what I’ve got. Daily commuting on the first tank got me 20 (one better than what the Ranger does in the same situation) and a comfortable feeling for the vehicle. Yesterday was Richmond’s big annual bike swap meet, and it was a pleasure to work out of the van, rather than using the pickup truck. Two weeks from now is NASCAR’s Richmond race. Yep, the party van comes out. And two weeks after that will be the first public setup of my newly re-founded historical costuming business.
I have a feeling the Ranger is on borrowed time. Initial indications is that the only jobs it can do better is haul mulch (which I haven’t done in years) and haul motorcycles. Which aren’t done often, and the Sedona has a tow rating of 3500lbs, which will certainly handle a 5×8 trailer and a Harley Super Glide. The hitch is forthcoming sometime this winter. And I have a feeling that the Ranger will be gone by spring. We’re a little overloaded in the household anyhow with three cars, van, pickup truck, two motorcycles and a scooter.
Ahh, the ranks of Sedoners continues to expand. These have to be great buys as used cars. Jeez, mine was a great buy as a new car. I keep watching the older ones for faults. So far these seem quite rust resistant and I have yet to hear about common tranny failures that sideline the Chryslers and Hondas. My mechanic advises that there are a lot of used Kias that are kept through the end of the 100k warranty and are then dumped with mucho deferred maintenance, so a buyer should be choosy.
Our 2012 has about 32k on it and it has been quite trouble free. It gets better gas mileage than my 3.3 99 T&C and is genuinely fast. Be sure to have the lower control arms checked, there is a rust recall on them and they will be either replaced or rustproofed.
I’m glad you are happy, but we drove a Sedona before we bought our Caravan, and the Kia was the worst handling new car Ive ever driven. But it was quick…
The Dodge 3.3 has averaged 24 mpg in mixed driving, and at 224k miles the tranny (knock on wood) shifts great. Dont flush then and only use ATF+4 and they are good if not abused…
The valve train looks to be ultra-clean and gunk free for a 143K engine.
Someday, people will refer to the slant six as being almost as good of an engine as the Chrysler 3.3.
I believe both engines were designed by the same guy.
The 3.3 was an excellent motor. I only ever saw one that was grenaded, and that was because the oil had not been changed for 70,000 km. I made a lot of money on that mistake…….
I own a 2000 T&C which I bought one-year old with 8,000 miles on it in 2001. I like it and it certainly doesn’t owe me any money. Change oil religiously and service the tranny every 24,000 miles. So far, so good on the transmission. Mileage around town is worse than I’d like, but it does better than 20 mpg on the highway.
The negative is that things break on it that never broke on any other car I’ve owned. I got a new steering wheel under warranty because the leather cover deteriorated. Replaced the radio. I had to replace the flywheel and you can be sure I never drag race it! Also electric problems, and plastic parts fall off or break. the plastic piece around the bottom of the driver’s seat cracked.
Another good one, Mr. Saunders. I’m really enjoying your COAL series. Did I mention that? I had a very similar Dodge Caravan as a rental vehicle back in 2004. This was a time when I was renting cars pretty frequently. I’d always request the smallest, cheapest car available like a Hyundai Accent, but I’d almost always get a “free upgrade” to something bigger, like it or not. I felt completely ridiculous behind the wheel of that thing. I was on a road trip by myself, and would have actually preferred the Hyundai Accent.. I felt like I was driving a large, empty school bus. When I arrived at my destination in that giant “Minivan,” my friend pointed at it and laughed almost hysterically. Of course, my little tale is told from the point of view of someone with no wife and no kids. For someone with both of those things, getting a good deal on a second-hand Caravan makes a lot more sense!
Yes the wife and kids makes a difference. I said I would never own one but now I have owned three. Perfect family transport. Much better than the gas guzzler SUV my wife now drives.
We’ve got a ’98 variant with a Plymouth badge, and as much as I complain about it – I really can’t fault the thing. It’s got 179k miles on it now and we’ve owned it for 7 years and 90k of those. Ours is “loaded” with the 3.8 V6, Infinity stereo and all the toys they gave you back in 98 aside from leather. And man is the thing cheap to keep up.
I’ve driven both the 3.3 and 3.8, boy am I glad we got the 3.8. Everyone claims the 3.3 is the better motor – everyone who settled for a 3.3. Sure, the 3.8 gets SUV-worthy gas mileage in the city (14-15) but on the highway it will pull 22-23 while carrying 2 adults, 3 kids and all the “stuff” to go with while two air conditioners blow away going 75 on the Interstate. When we rented a 3.3 any sight of a hill with that load had it sounding like it was going to explode.. no thanks!
I keep getting close to replacing ours, in fact almost did this week, but the thing keeps surprising me. Topping off all the fluids and R-134a, magically it springs right back into good running order.
If you can get over the stigma (and let’s be honest, the looks) they make ridiculously cheap and reliable transportation.
The secret to being happy with a 3.3-powered ChryCo minivan is to have your previous car be a 1st gen 4 cylinder Honda Odyssey. 🙂 After the Ody, the 3.3 makes a minivan feel like it is running a turbo.
I imagine the difference with passengers and A/C is pretty marked.
I dunno. More like an old diesel. They are so slow the addition of some extra weight doesn’t seem to make a measurable difference (I’m sure it does but you can obviously tell).
Hah – so true. Our rental was slow even when I drove it back from the rental company before loading the family up. Only difference between it and a diesel is that the 3.3 screamed up the smoky mountains of Tennessee, and I just kept my foot in it hoping it would not strand us HERE and that it wouldn’t shell itself. It kept upward momentum, not very rapidly, but it did it.
Either loaded or unloaded it’s night and day. I almost didn’t buy a Chrysler minivan when we went van shopping because of the sour rental experience, but I found they were really the only minivan option as Hondas had paper transmissions and the Toyotas at the time were too spendy.
When we tried the 3.8 I was honestly surprised. At the time I drove a healthy V8 (I need to write it up..) and my mechanic said the 3.8 would be night and day. He was right. Empty it moves, and even loaded down we’ve never had a problem. Despite all the miles now, even fully loaded in 95 degree heat on the steepest grades on the Interstate, the thing just churns up them and holds 75.
We rented a new Toyota Sienna two years ago as a dual purpose (ours was being a slight pain, later found the fuel pump was going out, and I wanted an “extended test drive”) vacation vehicle. Despite on paper being leaps and bounds better, I wasn’t all that impressed. Drove as heavy as it was, and while it had decent power it was way too peaky and shift-happy.
Long story short – I never thought I’d say this, but I’m happy with our boring old minivan. As a family vacation hauler, the dang thing is hard to beat. I’ll probably get my wife a new car soon for in-town, but we’ll likely keep the big jellybean van for trips.
Sorry about the problems you had with the Nissan. I always thought it was the one of the better styled minivans in that market. At least I now know what to avoid.
For me, the simpler van styling is, the better. And considering the social stigma minivans have anyway, why bother? They may as well look like a Sprinter, for at least they would have more useful volume.
I own a ’04 Sienna, but my favorite for styling (if not space) is the previous generation. And every refresh since the ’04 has gotten worse, like acts of desperation.
The author is right: If you’re going to own a money pit, may as well buy American.
They are all pretty hopeless. The electric doors on the higher end models cost a fortune to put right. The transmissions are sore points on most of them. The Toyotas cost a fortune. Pick your poison and take a gamble!
My mom went through three Grand Caravans – two of them about the same vintage as your two. My brother-in-law (now retired from Chrysler Canada) was always able to hook her up with executive-driven off lease Mopars so they were low mileage and well-maintained when she got them. She got good service with few problems from all three of them, as I recall, and though she now drives a Honda CRV she has good memories of her minivans.
I always enjoy your Cars Of A Lifetime articles. Keep ’em coming.
I am an unabashed minivan fan. I really enjoyed my 99 T&C that I picked up as a high mile cheap used car. Unfortunately, it tricked me into falling in love with it, and both looking and driving so nice that I started treating it as a real car instead of the beater I bought. I put more money into it than I should have, but there was some unknown thing about it that completely satisfied me every time I drove it.
I miss it all over again. This was after I bought it in 2009, a 2 owner car with about 180k (miles, not kilometers).
@JP – Do you still own that T&C!
Nice T&C, here’s my current; a ’99 Limited
The front interior (quick snap with my old crappy cell). The leather needs a little help, it’s a bit worse but still not bad enough to replace the seat (though I have been considering it recently). Being a Limited, it has the middle row buckets and the rear bench with the fold down armrest and removable headrests (still a pita to pull, I want stow-n-go next time) and they’re all in perfect condition. Aside from the fact it could use the odd vacuum, the carpet’s in pretty good shape for it’s age.
A little aftermarket work here-the van still has the factory Infinity deck and “Infinity 10” speaker system. I’ve replaced three speakers so far, the fourth will be soon-they’re getting hard to track because of their odd nature-each speaker (aside from the dash speakers and the tweeters in the “d” pillar) has it’s own amp, built onto the basket. I added the two Infinity (seemed the right thing to do) subs and associated 960 watt amp using a line-out converter, but I’m finally breaking down and adding an aftermarket deck for a carputer install I’ve been itching to do for a while now, and I’m not sure yet if that means I’ll have to replace most of the speakers (which I’d rather not have to do, as they still sound great). I’ve tidied up the wiring and vacuumed since, so it doesn’t look quite this bad. The spare tire crank is rusted solid and the plastic tire holder on it is broke, so until I get around to replacing it, this is where my spare tire lives.
Sadly, it ate its transmission about 3 years ago (a broken shaft instead of one of the normal failures). I gave it to an employee who paid for a tranny rebuild and still drives it. I borrowed it about a year ago and remembered all over again why I liked it so much.
Still think this generation are the best-looking minivans Chrysler has ever built (and pretty high on the list for minivans of any manufacturer).
We just got a cheap-o beater 2000 Chrysler T&C Limited… our first minivan of any kind. (My wife surfs, but she’s fairly short and the roof rack on our “real” car, an SUV, is a hassle for her.)
Anyway, we bought it with the intention of treating it like a rented mule… but it turns out we really like it. I know this won’t surprise minivan owners, but the seating position, cargo capacity, and sliding door access just make everything so much easier. The dynamics are nothing special, but at least it has the 3.8 engine. The interior is almost immaculate, and the sparkly black paint nicely disguises a few rust blisters.
The previous owner really babied it–he bought it new and maintained it religiously for the 170k miles he owned it. I sincerely hope it turns out to be reliable (enough), because it’s a wonderful addition to our fleet. The perfect example of “the right tool for the job.”
Nice article and I currently drive an 03 Caravan with the 2.4 Litre 4 Cylinder which makes your 3.3 Litre V6 seem like a race car. The Tranny was rebuilt at 80K miles before I bought it and right now I am approaching 96K miles. The oil leak is big enough to get on my nerves, but not big enough to tear into the engine since the oil is always properly full when I check it each week. While I am envious of the cruise control and tilt steering wheel of your 01 Grand Caravan I am happy my Caravan does not have power windows and other electrical issues that could fail given it is a Daimler Chrysler. I also get the rear bumper cover coated in mud from the rear tires. For the life of me I cannot remember if my Caravan has a Tach like yours, but I seriously doubt it. My biggest issues right now are the Evap System which keeps tripping the Check Engine Light with various codes and sometimes I hear a clunk from the front end if I have the wheels turned hard and go over rough roads at low speeds. The front brake pads are still fine 15K miles later.
Nice to hear good things about these (“domestic”) vehicles.
A new one costs ~$20k with a (3.6) V6. Far less stylish than a CUV, but a bit more room and the power of a V6!
I recently rode in two newer ones, as well as a newer Honda Odyssey. The Honda interior outclassed it ten times over, but I could feel the Honda’s jerky transmission as a passenger. I think the far lower price would send me to Dodge!
My brother bought a brand new one last year and has treated them well thus far.
I owned a 1997 Grand Caravan for a short while. It drove fairly well, except for a strange transmission issue that showed up halfway through my time with it. The van wouldn’t move forward or reverse until the engine warmed up. Supposedly it was a shift solenoid issue, but I sold it at a loss before fixing it. I really got spooked by the manifestation of issues on its famously unreliable drivetrain.
I don’t blame you for bailing. Lots of these in the wreaking yards still in decent shape – likely a transmission failure sent them all there.
Our 97 had the shift solenoid issue. It was a fairly cheep repair as I recall, nothing near the cost of a transmission. The transmission was till OK when we sold it at 7 years / 90k
I have an ’06 Caravan, 2.4 bought new. It now has 178000 miles on it. I drive about 1000 miles a week for work. I cannot find a more comfortable car that I can sit in for 4 hours each way without an issue, and it’s great for hauling the odd thrift store find. You can put a 7 foot bookcase in it and close the hatch and off you go. Usable third row seat. I never have concerns about what can fit or how many people. Fantastic weekend warrior car. I have had no transmission or oil leak issues. The only issues in 8 years have been an intake gasket ($140), door actuators ($75 each) a blower fan? resistor? and an A/C charge. I could not ask for a better built, more comfortable, more reliable car. . . I would not ever switch to a Toyota/honda. No transmission issues.
Thanks for this post, David; it reminds of why I love minivans so much. The Chryslers, up until their 2008 redesign, were very appealing. The Quest you got rid of, a victim of Ghosn’s early cost-cutting, is very much not-so-nice. Its redeeming trait came from a different era in the company’s history, though they’ve successfully clawed back some of their quality content since the Renault merger (it was lookng very ugly in the beginning).
I tend not to view minivans–or any 4,000 object made of glass, steel and metal–as disposable, but as usual, you really have the right idea about cars and their value. As much as I love vans like the Previa, Mitsu Expo and first-gen Odyssey, minivans are a buffet, not a fancy meal. And Chryslers, with all the options they offer buyers, really give buyers a lot of choice in how to outfit their vans, making many of them special regardless of price.
Almost bought a new Quest in December 2004. Wife loved the exterior styling and we test-drove a couple but we both hated the cheap low-rent feel of the interior. Then it got panned in Consumer Reports so we ended going with an Odyssey instead, which we still have. After reading this I’m glad we made that last-minute switch.
It would have been a good vehicle to lease but not own as it was pretty decent in its early life. To be fair ours had quite a few miles and a hard life.
I’m an unabashed fan of the Chrysler minivans, though I’ve never owned one. I was able to borrow my in-law’s original 1984 minivans back in the day. It was a great little ride for the times and saved us a lot of hassle with two car seats.
I’ve spent tens of thousands of miles in this generation minivan, many of my friends had them when our kids were in church, scouts or soccer. I really came to appreciate them for their supreme utility and versatility. However, for us being GM Family, it was much cheaper to buy something from the General. We had a couple of Azteks this way, which is to say a four door short wheelbase minivan…
Last year when my Sunfire GT became to expensive to repair, I started searching for a minivan, but my wife insisted on something that wasn’t a “mommymobile”. Frankly I gave up arguing and found another Aztek for her to drive around in. Oddly, for her the Aztek says: CUV, for me it says: Minivan with hinged doors. To each their own…
I drove the new version of the Chrysler minivan in 2008, I liked it a great deal. I tend to call them Norge (like the old refrigerator brand in the US) or a toaster, due to the overall boxy shape. The ones I rented were good drivers, and I think I could be happy with one of those. But, future plans are to find a nice Dodge Journey, as we don’t want a “mommymobile”. Ah well…
We had a 2002 Chrysler Voyager. We bought it new. We never had any major problems, until it hit about 92,000 or 93,000 miles and the transmission went. We had it for 10 years. It serviced us through our sons’ toddler years, including the messes that come with that. To replace it, my wife chose a Chevrolet Equinox. She said no more vans. Interestingly enough, she never washed or cleaned the interior of the Voyager. I did that. She babies her Equinox. I guess she considers it to be sportier. I don’t blame her for not wanting a mini-van again.
We have a 2002 Caravan that still gives good service after 7 years of use. Besides the small leak in the evap system, the other thing that gave us trouble was some rust in the rockers and rust just ahead of the drivers side rear wheel. The local Bjs tire center crushed the drivers side rocker on their lift when we bought 4 tires. The rocker was paid for by by insurance, (nearly 2K) but we had to pay nearly $850 for the repair at the rear wheel. After all the repairs, we still drive the van, and hope it lasts at least another 7 years to get our moneys worth.
Not really a modern minivan, but a few years back I bought an Astro cargo van to use for work. I do a lot of door repair and lock work, and it is so nice to have the Adrian Steel drawers and work bench inside. It isn’t pretty, it is crude and unsophisticated, but it does the job cheaply and very well.
I have a thing for minivans too. (Group hug). I had the original T&C from 1990! Wood panelled and white peeling paint. It just had an ugly duckling charm about it. Paid $700 for it in 2005, gave it to my dad as a second vehicle, got it back in 2013, and sold it a few months later for $800. No major problems. It was huge inside with the seats taken out. I like the van practicality, more than using them as family/people haulers. Great on road trips for naps/sleeping.
I’ve had 5 other bargain minivans. Here is a summation- 1987 toyota cargo van, fun but scary. 1994 Chev (dustbuster) Lumina, okay but poorly put together. 1993/94 mercury villager/nissan Quest, good handling but prone to big repairs. 1993 mazda MPV 4WD, the front is shaking apart! Some of these vans I sold for scrap. The trick is, of course is to get a low mileage/ clean vehicle. As for the chrysler product discussed here, I like them but, just have a bad feeling about them, and end up buying something else.
After a recent terrible experience with modern(?) automatic transmissions I pretty much decided the future would be MT. Don’t see many minivans that have that. I borrowed my daughters plymouth voyager to do a job a few years back and I really liked it but it was on it’s second transmission. Syke, it will be interesting how the Kia holds up. If I found a brand I could trust I might spring for it but every good story is negated by a bad one.
If the Toyota holds up it won’t matter.
We had a 98 Voyager that we picked up new soon after my daughter was born. It served us well for 9 years. It did have a few issues: the transmission needed a new solenoid pack, and one of the cooling system hoses developed a tendency to pop off at innoportune times, though it was a 2 second fix. We sold it at about 90k, fearing transmission troubles.
We replaced it with a new 07 Honda Odyssey, but we only kept it three years, as a) my wife didn’t like how it drove (she preferred the Plymouth) b) it got horrible mileage and c) she wanted to be done with the mini van thing. (I’m not quite sure how a CRV answers those questions when you have 3 teenagers, but understanding women has never been my strong suit.)
Caravans are honest machines. You pays your money, you takes your chances. I had aa 1990 Caravan for six months one time, using it to set up a new household. I paid $700 for it and sold it for the same and it only took one day.
They are dime a dozen and the faults, and there are many, are well known. Brakes go a maximum of 20,000 km here, usually less. Sway bar links rattle. Struts wear out and here are no alignment bolts, you have to buy them separately. Fuel pumps don’t last long. The transmissions on the 2001 + cars were much better if they were not abused.
In today’s Caravan beater diaspora, don’t go earlier than 2001 and don’t buy one with the Mitsubishi engines there were a few around that year. If the struts are done, don’t buy it, not worth beaterdom. If it drives straight, had good brakes are tires, buy it!
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/bnc/cto/4635425118.html
The window problem is really common, too!
For future reference, when working on these vans; if you need to service the rear of the engine, the wiper assembly and all the plastic around it-including the plastic cowling-are designed to be fairly easy to remove. Good to know also if you intend to do the rear plugs or service the usually-rusted-and-leaking rear heater hose.
I’m now on my third chrysler minivan. I can’t complain about the first two – a 1996 Grand Caravan and a 2003 Town & Country. Surprisingly, no transmission problems with the first one, which I sold with about 104,000 miles on it. The second one went to 120,000 miles with just a trransmission solinoid replacement – a relatively cheap fix in the Chrysler minivan transmission world. When I sold it, the transmission was slipping, so it was time to go. I’m religious about changing the trans fluid every 30,000 miles. Of course, both vans needed tie rod end and sway bar link replacement regularly.
My current 2006 T&C I bought used with 52,000 miles on it and it now has about 80,000. It’s amazing the decontenting that occurred between 2003 and 2006 thanks to Daimler. It’s the little things, like deleting the light-up buttons on the garage door opener so you cant find them at night that I find annoying. The driver’s side power sliding door has died so I took off the gear on top of the motor so it now works as a manual door. The rear AC condensor died. It’s starting to rust through around the right rear wheel. Since the transmission service history was unclear, I had the fluid changed at 60,000 and will do so again st 90,000. Let’s hope it makes it to 120,000 miles – I need this one to get us through my daughter’s college years. I do love the stow ‘n go seats though. No more lugging out the seats to carry big items!
my parents have owned a 1990 caravan, 1994 caravan, 2000 caravan, 2007 caravan, and now a 2014 caravan. me being the rebel son (now father) bought a 2011 sienna and regretted that i could have bought TWO 2014 caravans for the price i paid in 2011. lesson learned dad.
We’re on our 2nd Mopar minivan.
First was a 96 Grand Voyager with the 3.3. Bought used and cheap with 80k miles in 99. It got a transmission at 135k miles (about what I expected), and a big hailstorm totaled it with about 175k miles. I wanted to keep it, but the but back price from the insurance company was too high. The worst part about this van – crappy headlights and it ate brakes. Both were just too small.
We have an 05 Grand Caravan with the 3.8 we bought in 06 with 15k miles. Has about 125 on it. Headlights and brakes are better. Access to the rear spark plugs is better. Transmission still going strong.
Both got reasonable mileage but the 3.8 is a little better – 17ish in town, 25ish highway.
After listening to friends and family gripe about their Honda maintenance costs, I loge these vans even more. Timing belt replacements? Never! Need a motor mount? $50.
Try that with on Odyssey. And the Odysseys eat transmissions, too…
Neither I nor my wife see ourselves as future minivan owners, but then again I suppose very few people do. And we do see ourselves as future parents, so maybe it’s inevitable. If I do end up with one, i’ve heard bad things about pretty much all of them–except the Kias. The more recent ones seem to have quite a good reputation. So that might be the way to go.
As to the ’97 feature van, the comment about older owners may be exactly right. My grandfather bought a Plymouth Voyager back in 1988 to replace an ’86 Plymouth Reliant that he grew tired of rather quickly (he wasn’t a small-car person at heart). While there was occasionaly grandchild-hauling, that wasn’t the main reason for purchase–he liked the high, upgright seating position, and he liked that it was a good highway cruiser (it had whichever V6 was available at the time). That van was mostly trouble-free for the 9 years they owned it, departing in 1997 when grandpa couldn’t drive anymore due to declining health. But, like the one Dave purchased, it was immaculate inside throughout their ownership. (Outside too, in their case.)
I had a ’92 Voyager, with the honest-to-god 5-speed manual. I bought it in 2005 for $850. By that time, the junkyards were full of 2nd-gen MoPar minivans with grenaded transmissions. I upfitted my base-level van with all the top-of-the line goodies for dirt money. That van got 25mpg and I lived in it during my divorce.
I drove it for two years and gave it to a guy to whom I owed $500.
I sure wish they’d make them with clutches again.