Pictures from Google
The car that made me hate the color gray.
This was my first car. The first car that I could truly call my own. I don’t have any pictures of it, because I never bothered to save them. It was so… plain. It blended in so well and was so utterly dull that I’m struggling to write about it. Well… That isn’t exactly true. This car taught me a few valuable lessons about Craigslist, engine swaps, and the reputations of certain car brands.
In the beginning, my step father gave me his 1978 Chevrolet C-10 Custom when my Mom and I moved to Texas from New Mexico. It was not near as nice as the picture above! It was a single cab, long bed, painted plain white. It had a little bit of rust in the floorboards, and was generally knocked about. It used to belong to a farmer, who wanted the most basic truck he could find, with the few luxuries he thought would be practical. It had a 305 V8, three speed automatic, and an AM radio. The carb needed to be rebuilt and it had a mind of its own. I decided to call the truck Mack. A good old name for a good old truck.
It would take 20 minutes to start because one had to pump the gas pedal and turn the kept until the planets aligned just right and by some divine force, Mack would cough to life like an old man getting up in the morning. Being 16, and the layabout that I was, I assumed old Mack would stick around until I got around to addressing his many, many problems. In truth, because I never worked on him, and rust was starting to pop holes in the floor, it was sold to a newlywed couple for one thousand dollars who desperately needed a car. Looking back… it wasn’t the greatest or safest vehicle to be given to a new driver, but not a day goes by that I don’t kick myself for not taking care of him. That’s why I do my damnedest to take care of my current classic car.
Anyway, back to the COAL:
The internet can be a wonderful thing. However, it can also be a place of absolute dick pistons. I sold a plot of land my late grandfather had left me for the princely sum of $2000, and wanted to use that to find my first real car. No matter what I felt about the truck, it was never truly mine, having never taken responsibility for him. I continued this trend by not taking the search as seriously as I should have. That prompted my parents to bite the bullet and ask if they could find one for me. I said yes, having other more important things to deal with at the time to a teenager, like eking out an existence in my new high school in a town that didn’t truly feel like home.
Soon enough, I found a gray 2000 Honda Accord sitting in the driveway that had been found on Craigslist. I had never been so underwhelmed in my life up to that point. It needed major transmission work, because every time you came to a stop, the car would buck like a horse had kicked it. When we finally managed to get the car to the shop, the man was amazed it had made it in, the transmission was so ragged out.
The interior was comfortable, but totally awash in gray plastic. The cloth seats were gray and plain, the dash was a swoopy mass of gray on darker gray… Did I mention it was GRAY? I was working at Whataburger at the time and driving the car was a soul sucking experience, unlike Mack. Yes, driving that dinosaur was borderline insane, but at least I had a connection with it. My first car felt like a prison, and deep down, I knew it was all my fault. I would’ve found a great classic, but here I was, stuck in this perfect flat line of a vehicle. That was until my first oil change…
We discovered that the oil filter we bought (that would’ve fit the stock engine) wasn’t going to fit this one because the car was originally sold in California, and at some point, had an engine swap. The new engine was an F22A1. It looked very similar to the stock Honda engine, but made more power. This proved problematic for a car that was already falling apart. Thankfully, each time the car needed a massive repair (which was often) my step Dad would loan me the money to get it fixed. This included a $300 oxygen sensor that had to be special ordered. The ECU never worked right and after spending about $5000 over the course of the year I owned it just to keep it running… It was decided to finally sell it. It took until I was 18 to fully pay him back for all the debt the Accord had piled up. It was certainly a learning experience! A brand does not a car make!
This, of course led me to the subject of my first article I did for CC, a 2008 Kia Rio.
I think you might have enjoyed the Accord more if it had a stickshift.
Agree!
In that time period, Honda made the best front wheel drive 5 speed manual transaxle around! Slick Shifting, short throws, precise engagement, light clutch effort.
The automatic was just…..there.
The auto was worse than just there. They were pretty much self-destructive. My ’99 Accord coupe ate its first auto at 58k, was eating its second at 99k when I sold it.
Wasn’t the self-destruction limited to V6 versions of contemporary Honda and Acura products?
“Wasn’t the self-destruction limited to V6 versions of contemporary Honda and Acura products?”
Yes.
My roommie had a Honda minivan of that era with the V-6. Her tranny ate it’s innards too.
Yes. Sadly that year, you could get a 4 and stick, or 6 and auto, and the 4 (IMO) didn’t have enough grunt to move the heavy coupe.
Shame because other than the auto (and a few other maintenance issues) it was really a great car.
I had one with a stick shift, a 2002 LX purchased new. Mine was blue, inside and out. It’s been a good car, and currently has around 250k miles on it and is still in the extended family. I though that the stick shift made driving it more engaging, but it was always going to be a mild-mannered car with little personality. I respected it rather than loving it. My sons who learned to drive in it were very fond of it, though. Overall, it has been reliable, durable, more than competent, but never exciting.
I would agree more with your premise had you bought an unmolested Accord and then had plenty of issues with it. I often hear about how bad certain makes of cars are, and when you probe, you find out that the car being complained about was used (sometimes quite used), neglected or abused, or had sketchy mods done to them.
One rule I have become inflexible about when looking at used cars is to find one that is bone stock, absolutely original. That means, no engine swaps, no +1 wheel swaps, no add on alarm systems, no add on cruise control systems, no stickers for go-fast parts (especially K&N air filters, typically installed and maintained incorrectly), mismatched wheels and/or tires and if I see a sub box or wires for one, I walk away immediately. No lie.
Having said that, we’re all on the learning curve. I came by my rules by learning the hard way, which is why I have all of those rules for buying a car. Good hunting!
All excellent rules. I will add mine: any vehicle with an ad photo taken in an alley. Because the definition of “excellent condition” for people who live in neighborhoods with alleys has proved to be much different from my own. I made this rule after looking at many vehicles advertised with photos taken in alleys.
Hey, I resent that! Our neighborhood has alleys. Now, would you be interested in a clean, low-mileage, one owner …
Every rule has its exceptions. I am sure that by now I have passed over more than one pristine, well-maintained car of the perfect model and color for a crazy low price because it was photographed in an alley. Perhaps yours? 🙂
Huh, I’ve never lived anywhere that DIDN’T have alleys.
Yes, I agree the Accord had been messed with before our author purchased it, so reliability was already compromised.
”…especially K&N air filters, typically installed and maintained incorrectly…
Had to chuckle, as I had a K&N experience two days ago. My better half has owned a low mileage, perfectly maintained Dodge Ram 3500 turbodiesel for the past few years, into which the previous owner installed a K&N. For various reasons I had to temporarily replace the washable K&N unit with a stock air filter, and I’m not convinced that it runs just as well, if not better.
You hear lots of testimonials about K&Ns, but beyond the ability to wash and reuse them, I’m not sure I see the advantages.
Certainly, the window sticker will not add any power. I looked into the K&N website and found that even K&N admits that the drop in filter won’t do anything for performance in most cases. There are some vehicles that can benefit from a complete K&N cold air intake. Those tend to be real big engines.
That makes sense. Manufacturers are already using any inexpensive strategy to maximize fuel economy. The Ford Windstar had a cold air intake right out of the factory.
The Ford Windstar had a cold air intake right out of the factory.
It and literally every other modern fuel injected car.
That’s the common buffoonery with the K&N “CAI” system, as many of the kits out there are simply a new tube with the filter mounted open in the engine compartment, sucking in HOT air instead of the cooler outside air ducted into the enclosed factory airbox.
Re: K&N air filters… Back in the carbureted days, they probably made sense, as intake systems both pre and post carb were not completely optimized for performance and emissions. Plus the small amount of oil that was aerated really didn’t affect anything.
But with cars having EFI, cold air intakes optimized for flow and mass air flow sensors (of some kind), I don’t want a fine film of oil inside all of that stuff. If it gets dirty enough, I will have all kinds of EXPENSIVE problems.
Due to emissions controls, very little is left for the shade tree mechanic to “improve”; you’re not going to squeeze out that much more power and/or mileage (if any) because the EFI can adjust on the fly. From the factory, intake systems and filters are about as good as they will get. Just make sure you replace them when the service interval calls for it.
Here’s another twist on K&N filters that I have found – and why I have two of them….
In both my pickup and the van, the air filter is one of those conical shaped affairs. Each time when I went to replace the paper one, the price was ridiculous and within $5 (and this is a nearly $50 air filter) of the K&N. One is reusable, one is chucked in the trash.
I’ve been keeping them clean but one needs ample time for cleaning and drying. Are they my preferred? No, but I’m a cheapskate who has had the same outcome for less outlay.
Something tells me the minimal cost difference is an irregular occurrence.
I’m much the same as geozinger with the “bone stock and un-fiddled with” rule of thumb, but I knowingly violated that massively with my latest A4 purchase. Car’s been totaled out in a wreck some time back, hit in the front and I think in the back, has been repainted (well enough). Nasty rusty K&N filter, inner fender liners trimmed out to accomodate larger wheels at some point I assume. I wouldn’t be surprised if the 128k miles on the odometer weren’t true miles. Having said all that it has a 5 year maintenance history at my brother’s shop so mechanically it is reassuring. I had originally intended to drive it, fix it up a bit and flip it, but given the title that makes it a huge turn-off for most buyers, I think I’ll just keep it around as a comfy and fun all-weather commuter.
I can’t imagine buying a $2000 Accord knowing it had transmission issues, and then proceeding to dump $5k in it.
A) How did your father decide to buy it in the first place?
b) Why not cut it loose (even at a loss) once the first really big repair hit?
$2000 isn’t much but with a bit of patience you can easily find something perhaps not as sexy (some kind of unloved domestic perhaps), but much less used up and in more original condition.
I don’t mean to get down on you and your pops, seeing as this already all transpired and lessons learned. Thanks for the read!
They thought it was a good choice. It was a Honda after all. Other than the tranny issues,it seemed to run fine. A good beater. We all hoped it was something simple to fix. Sadly, I was stuck between a rock and a hard place. I didn’t make much money and needed that car to make said money.
A couple of years ago I was in the market for a car. I mentioned to my mechanic that I’d seen a car on Craigslist, but it had oversize rims and low-profile tires, and if I got it, I’d want to restore it to stock rims and tires.
My mechanic said that every car he’d ever seen with oversize rims had been owned by a kid (I’ve been past the kid stage for decades) who had thrashed it. I filed this away in the memory banks and didn’t contact the seller of that car.
A $2k Honda. There is the problem. When a guy has $2k to spend it can buy a lot of Buick or Dodge or Mercury if you take your time. But it will only buy the most worn out and abused Toyotas and Hondas.
It would be hard for me to get enthusiastic about a car someone else picked out for me. Every car I have driven has been appealing enough (in some way) for me to have made the active decision to bring it into my life. And when I have chosen badly it has been my own fault.
You have described the worst of all worlds: where someone else chose a car for me but did so using my money.
I bought a high mileage but long-time owner (bought off lease) ’96 ES300 for $1600 2 years ago that turned out to be an excellent buy. 203k miles, I ran it up to 209k over the winter before reselling it for a minor profit in the spring during tax time. So despite the general advice of car guys (including myself at times) to avoid the “toyota/honda tax” and shop domestics in the low end price bracket, there are some rock solid Toyota/Honda (and even Lexus) deals to be had.
I agree that these can sometimes be a smart buy. I have found that you have to look at those over at 200k miles to get down into the lower price ranges, but many of those “classic era” Hondas and Toyotas will just be getting good and broken in at 200k if they have been well cared for. My 96 Odyssey was a 207k mile purchase for about $2500 but it had been well maintained and both looked and drove great.
Yeah, I’ll take 200k and maintenance records on a 1990s Toyota product over many much newer and lower mileage vehicles with negligent owners. That ES was an absolute tank, Lexus doesn’t build them like this anymore, sadly. The transmission shifted smoother and the engine ran quieter than most of their current line with their DI and aggressive torque converters. Engine was clean as a whistle under the oil cap (even though the later 1MZs were the subject of sludging issues with certain owners), trans shifted good as new. The only thing that was finally getting past it were the original struts, the mounts were starting to get noisy. Aside from that, the subframe was like-new, all of the balljoints and control arm bushings had minimal or no cracking and felt tight. Really pretty incredible IMO, this is the stuff that Toyota built their reputation on.
It was a mistake on both our parts. I should’ve looked harder for a car and not taken my time. They should’ve done a little more research too. I gave them permission to find me a car. I trusted their judgement. I don’t really blame them, it was my look out. The seller should’ve been upfront about it. A learning experience for everyone.
Yup!
“You Get What You Pay For” with a high resale value but cheaply priced Honda or Toyota.
I have some sympathy with PIONEER_FOX. We all learn by association. Having to put that much money into a car that you don’t like to begin with only reinforces the negative feelings. And these feelings come up every time he sees a gray on gray Accord. Logic will not overcome this right brain reaction.
Over time one can modify these feelings with the rational approaches that geozinger developed. But even geozinger came by his rules of reason learning the hard way.
Maybe the most important lesson this story provides is “avoid debt at any sacrifice”. That is not just about cars but pretty much any thing in life.
I also have sympathy for Pioneer Fox. I realize it may not sound like it, but I wanted to demonstrate that we all are on the learning curve somewhere…
Me 3. We have all been there and learned those expensive lessons at some time or other.
We bought the same Honda Accord in the same color (but a 2002) and kept it until 171k. It ran like a top, only requiring oil changes, tires and brakes. When we sold it, it was still running perfectly, and who knows, it might have for years and miles to come. I found it to be a (relatively) powerful ride with its smooth Vtec engine, and I liked being behind the wheel much more than I like driving the ’08 Civic we replaced it with.
My wife has had two Accords during our years together. The first, a 1993 model bought used around 1996, carefully inspected prior to the sale, with all issues tended to by the dealer, went for over 200,000 miles with only basic maintenance before being stolen. It had a decent interior, nothing fancy, but everything we expected in a car of the era. Compared to other cars I had experienced, this car amazed me with how well it ran and how little attention it needed.
With a Subaru in the middle, she now has a 2016 Accord, which she picked up used last year. Though we haven’t had it long enough to get a feel for long-term durability, it, like its ancestor the 93, is a nice, solid car that runs well and doesn’t seem to need a lot of fussing. It has a maintenance monitor that tells me when to change the oil, and, to my surprise, the last interval was well over 6,000 miles. And, despite what I would have expected, the automatic on it is quite respectable. My personal preference would be for a manual, if they are even available, but she is very happy with the automatic.
As much as I enjoy my Outback, with the all-wheel drive capability, longitudinally mounted engine, lots of cargo space, I have done some extensive repairs on it, and the others we have owned, over the years, and, if I can get one with a manual transmission, may replace it with another one. The Hondas, though, strike me as the best bang for the buck of any car that has darkened my driveway. As an added bonus, the Honda, unlike the Subarus, does not leave oil stains.
The point, perhaps made well by others, is that a Honda, purchased in good condition, won’t be cheap to buy or exciting to drive, but is a good investment. Buying any well-depreciated vehicle, especially one that has been modified or improperly repaired, is a gamble, and even more so if one has to pay a professional mechanic to do the repairs.
I am a little sympathetic to Pioneer Fox. I read this more as an automotive ‘coming of age’ story than an actual review of the Accord. I think we all have gone through an experience where we learned that something in life wasn’t quite as simple as we’d thought and that we hadn’t really been paying attention.
I mean yeah, I know that dad musta changed the oil and stuff, but what the hell is a tie rod?
And as for his sour taste regarding Hondas, well I completely understand.
😏 I don’t care how nice everybody says she and her younger sisters are. I went out on a date with her, and I’m just not taking that chance again. Ever.
The “used Honda and Toyota” tax. Paid it on the daughter’s first car, a ’91 Camry. Similar story- a $2000 Camry with over 200,000 miles is a money pit waiting to happen.
Replaced with a ’03 Taurus with under 100K miles on it. Served daughter faithfully through college, and I drove it a couple of years after that.
I’ve noticed over the years that brands are often built on sand and the trumpeting of their biggest followers. I am a Mercedes guy and I got there because all my older diesels ran without requiring towing and saved my life in an accident that should have killed me. I also had generally pleasant experiences with my C220 and E300.
I don’t deny that it required “maintenance” that even the most maintenance intensive of Japanese cars would never need in a quarter million mile service life. I have even forgiven them the money out that was my ML350, and bought a new Metris which I am happy with. I think in every way but maintenance costs and later-life repairs Mercedes-Benz still makes the very best cars out there. But… I avoid or let fail and ignore a lot of complicated luxuries, and I maintain my car at the dealer with a carte Blanche authorization to fix any headache causing problems (i trust them; we have worked together for years).
Honda’s are more ornery to maintain than any other Japanese cars, but owners who maintain them properly seem to have great love for them (as many Mercedes owners do who maintain their cars). Owners who are more lackadaisical seem to switch to Toyota. A badly maintained Honda is like a badly maintained Mercedes- a pile of parts overstressed by bad maintenance that fail in sequence as broken parts are replaced, work better, and thus kill the next part down the line.
I agree Honda’s sold to average joe customers (automatic, no sport options, etc) are boring as hell. I’d also argue that Honda’s are not bad cars. But their brand reputation of being unbelievably durable and reliable even if you abuse them is BS spread by satisfied owners who don’t abuse them.
I know this is anecdotal but here’s my long-term experience with two stickshift Hondas. Both cars were driven hard and minor maintenance such as oil changes and valve/clutch adjustments was sometimes put off (timing chains, however, were always replaced on schedule).
1. 1984 CRX 1.5 – bought new, drove for 10 years and 150,000 miles. Sometimes autocrossed. Dead reliable. Nothing broke, came adrift, stopped working, or fell off – period. The only times the car failed to start were when the battery was dead.
2. 1990 Civic LX sedan – bought used, drove for 15 years and 200,000+ miles. Often driven on dirt/grass roads as well as bashing around large construction sites – sometimes heavily loaded. Power windows, mirrors, cruise control always worked. Dead reliable except for the following issues:
Resistor block in engine compartment failed.
Engine pulley wore out.
CV joints replaced twice (probably due to the harsh usage).
Ignition solenoid for clutch pedal failed.
Muffler and tailpipe rusted out.
Neither car ever needed a clutch, brake (except front pads), or A/C compressor replacement. Great cars – “unbelievably durable and reliable even if you abuse them” is no BS in my case.
I would argue that the reputations of Honda’s – and Mercedes, Toyota, and a few others – are based on the really solid design, manufacturing quality and reliability of earlier cars. While Fords and Chevies and Hyundai’s have gotten better, I think all the brands are converging on an OK, but difficult to troubleshoot and expensive to repair WHEN NEEDED, center.
My childhood experience, being in my early 60s, is more about old Detroit iron than Toyondas.
But my oldest son’s ’93 Accord – which he still drives daily, he can’t afford another one just yet – is definite Peak Honda. Even at 203,000 miles, we’ve maintained it well enough that you can see what attracted people to these things.
I sincerely doubt one ten years newer with the same everything would serve him as well.
Yet there are quirks that have to be remembered, stuff endemic to Hondas of that era. Whoever thought bolting the front rotors to the hubs was a good idea, f’r example…
As an 18 year-old I had a ’54 Chevy that was a hoot. But it was neither meticulously nor properly maintained and I killed two, maybe three 3-on-the-tree trannies (of the torque-tube kind!) hooning it around. Over the year-and-a-half I owned it, the kingpins froze and it became impossible to steer. I felt fortunate to get the $100 I sold it for.
The ’72 Vega that I owned concurrently was even more of a money pit, and the ’68 Chrysler that replaced both had an arc in its 440 block from being driven too long with a head cracked between two cylinders.
Learning experiences, all. Fortunately and thankfully.
I think all you need to know about Honda today can be seen in the air-filled electric MOTOR MOUNTS (!) found on many of the company’s recent offerings. I thought my mechanic friend was kidding when he brought up the repair on a customer’s Odyssey.
He said, “look it up.”
I did, and he’s correct. They cost over $200 apiece at AutoZone.
Yet my youngest son uses his 2011 Accord SE, bought five years ago with 30,000 miles and now approaching 200k, in his job. But unlike his big brother, he’s mechanically inclined, and he takes care of it…”dad, I’m hearing a clunk on sharp right turns pulling into a parking lot, think I need a lower ball joint again?” And he and his GF come out here and fix it in my garage. They’re meticulous, and they understand Hondas. He’ll probably be a customer for life.
But the magic of the 80s and early 90s is gone. I can see it driving my sons’ Accords. The 2011 is fine, nothing wrong with it. But nothing saying “yeah, this is why people love their Accords!”
In contrast, the ’93 is engaging, enjoyable. Fun. Still. Even now. It’s not the size difference. There’s just a different dynamic. More numb, maybe.
As noted by others, Honda’s just another car company now.
Ditto Toyota.
I grew up learning to speak the language of the General, and that remains my comfort zone. We have a good relationship with our local dealer, and figure our next vehicle purchase, whether new/used/spare vehicle, will most definitely be GM.
chas I agree, 90s Hondas had the “special sauce” that even driving them now (ESPECIALLY driving them now) you can appreciate. The ’08-’11 generation is a highly competent sedan, but the cheaper interior finish, the bloated size and styling, just lost the plot. It was like Honda’s take on an Impala: comfy car by the pound. I’d say the same applies to Toyota, never again will we see overengineering of the sort on display in the ’92-’96 cars that blew the competition into the weeds (yeah, yeah I know the Taurus outsold Camry in that era, owing to being big and cheap). My wife has a 2012 Camry and my father in law’s Lexus ES300h that like the 2011 Accord are highly competent, efficient, comfortable, reliable. But they don’t feel put together with care and over-the-top attention to small details like my ’96 ES300 was.
I can sympathize. Trying to find a solid used car with under a 100k miles for less than $4k here in the northeast is nearly impossible. Looking this past month I limited my search to orphans like Pontiac G6s, Oldsmobile’s and Saturn SLs. Craig’s loaded with scammers here. Flags are blurry flip phone photos, weird verbiage and “too good to be true” pricing. I was lucky to find a nice 2000 Saturn SL2 at a neighbor’s small used car lot. One owner little old lady car that was always dealer serviced. Even with the rotted out section of the engine cradle ( I welded a plate in) and 80k on the clock at $1500 it’s been great. As a side note, these SLs are have the lowest seating position of almost anything on road. Guy pulled up next to me at a light in a new Lamborghini and I had to look up to see his head!
I agree, solid cars under 4k are rare. I find it’s mostly limited to truly unpopular models. Almost no one wants to buy a Grand Marquis or a 90’s FWD Buick, so they are cheap to buy. They were often owned by elderly people, so 20 year old pristine examples can be found, equally cheap. Unfortunately their popularity among the elderly simply compounds their image problem.
People ask me how to find a good cheap car and I advise them accordingly. For whatever reason they usually refuse to consider these geriatric models then proceed to be frustrated that the Honda or Toyota they really want is simply unaffordable. Inevitability they buy something they cannot afford or buy some dreadful piece of junk. Meanwhile I’ll drive by in my pristine $500 Marquis. Such is the cost of popular opinion.
More than any sort of make/model, the most basic advice I give people buying cars/motorcycles/whatever is to look for a long ownership history, and a well maintained house/yard. Those sorts of people tend to take care of all of their things, and spend the money to keep them working nicely a long time.
My brother bought a Mercury Mystique GS (4cyl, 5spd) with 240k miles on it for $500. Sounds like some typical winter beater heap right? Well it had a single meticulous owner who took over-the-top care of it, synthetic oil from new, the guy put in extra sound deadening, conditioned the door seals with silicone and lubed the door hinges. The sad thing is my brother “adopted” the car because even at a listed price of $500 on craigslist, no one else wanted the little forgotten Mercury, probably because it was a stick shift.
It’s been a great car for him, he did put some new struts in the back, replaced the oil pan gasket, and finally replaced the original clutch(!). He drives it everywhere including longer trips. I’ve driven it and it is a surprisingly rewarding and comfortable car to drive. Much better seat cloth than any new sedan I’ve been in.
Those cars with the twin-cam Zetec 4 and manual transmission are great drivers.
After one nightmare experience, I wouldn’t touch a v-6 example with somebody else’s checkbook. The motor is just too big to fit, and -way- too many of the basic service procedures start with things like “remove rear bank valve cover, injection rails, and intake manifold”.
I always ask about oil change receipts on a Honda or Toyota.
If the seller can prove that he has done (at least) this amount of regular maintenance; it might be worth taking a chance on.
I’ll bet it had comfy seats (a priority for me), rode well and ran smoothly, 3 pluses in my book. But yes it’s bland and oh so grey, and making it a stick-shift wouldn’t help me as I hate those, give me an auto any day.
An automatic in an old 4cyl Honda is like wearing a chastity belt on your wedding night (IMO).
Hardly. My Dad had an ’84 Accord with auto and it was a pretty lively little car. My partner’s 2011 Fit also has an auto and it’s just fine.
Have you driven the manual version of either one? A) Honda makes fantastic feeling shifters. B) A small low-torque motor that loves revs can absolutely be used to fuller potential (better acceleration, better fuel economy) with a stick. I stand by my assertion with conviction!
Agreed. I spent a weekend with a 5 speed Accord of this vintage when my kid’s scoutmaster found himself short on drivers for a weekend campout and borrowed my Club Wagon.
I had plenty of wheeltime in Honda automatics (having married one) but that 5 speed had me in love with it.
That was the magic of Hondas until the early-mid 2000s or so, I’d argue this ’98-’02 gen of Accord was the tail end, and already was more refined and somewhat less engaging than the previous cars, but still had some special feeling left to give. I’ve borrowed a friend’s ’94 before with a stick, and was amazed at how “special” it felt on a twisty country road. I just don’t get that sensation with any modern midsizer.
One “Overlooked and unloved” car is Toyota Yaris 2 door hatchback. Unpopular body style that some think was last sold in 1996.
I got a 2008 Yaris 2 door for same price, or less, than older, worn out [rusty] Corollas. And in the ‘rust belt’ that means a lot.
What a vastly different experience I had with 2 different Accords of that were 10 years older. Granted, neither of mine had had the engine swapped out.
I inherited my daughter’s 1990 coupe, bought new by her grandparents and then driven by her dad for awhile. LOTS of miles on it, but it rode and drove well. Its only major issues were the transmission control module (easily replaced since it’s under the carpeting on the passenger side floor) and the rectangular fuse at the base of the steering column.
The 2nd one was a ’91 Accord sedan, bought as a go to work car. It had some rust issues but rode and drove well. The fuse mentioned above had to be replaced, and one of the CV joints, but it worked well for me.
Another Accord anecdote: My daughter is still driving the 1999 Accord EX that we bought in 2000. It has around 240K on it now. The automatic transmission wasn’t rebuilt until over 200K, but she was short of money for a while and nursed it along for probably 10 or 15K. Other than that, just the typical Honda wear items were replaced. She is planning to replace it this year.
That car was the fifth of a series of six Accords we owned. The last one, a 2009 V6 EX-L, had the plug-fouling problem that many of those did, but Honda finally made good on it, and it otherwise showed the typical Honda reliability. But it just didn’t quite give us the good feelings some of the older ones did – it got traded in on a 2017 Mustang GT, which is twice as much fun to own and drive, and even gets very nearly as good gas mileage.
Of the string of Accords, my favorite was the Seattle Silver 1992 EX 5-speed car. That was a great car, one of many I’d like to have kept.
We had an ’85 Accord from ’89-’91 when the transmission gave out at 89K. I was not impressed at all with the Accord and would have much preferred a Buick Century of the same year at the same price at the same lot, but Ma had had a rotten experience with a ’77 Century and despite many entreaties that this was a completely different car, refused to consider it. The Accord did not turn me into a Honda fan.
@ geozinger, I put a sub box in my Grand National so I could experience Teri Gross in 6 channel stereo! There’s 99% of the sub box owners, and then there was me listening to NPR turned . . . moderately up.
I agree with the Toyonda tax, at any price point a toyonda is likely to be more used up and have less life in it than a comparable domestic or lesser known product. But with all used cars, age, mileage, brand, and reputation matter a lot less than how a car was maintained and cared for. Most engines/transmissions, except for Hondas, last 250k plus easily, whether domestic or foreign. One thing I have noticed though is that a 15 year old Camcord on average has less little niggly bits broken than a comparable GM/Ford car.
Weirdly Avalons around here tend to be less expensive than their Camry counterparts. I think it’s because everyone’s aunt knows what a Camry is but not everyone knows what an Avalon is?
Savage the Avalon is the perfect “have your cake and eat it too” car. More of them stayed in better shape even as they got older, as their first owners tended to be older more mature people that hung onto them. They also don’t have the “camry” badge so prized by many, including many immigrant communities (Indians especially around here) so they are slightly more reasonably priced sometimes as you note. You’re getting the same basic robust Camry mechanicals, with a nicer interior with more room and more soundproofing. They’re the perfect low-key daily driver/winter beater or kid’s first car. They stand up to bad roads really well and have a nice ride too, and hardly rust.
@SavageATL: Dude, you must be the only one… I like Terri Gross, too, but not THAT much! LOL!
One thing that drove me nuts about my 2009 G6 daily, the factory sound system is not bad, but the cheap-@$$ speakers (non-Monsoon) were awful. The factory AM/FM/XM head unit had pretty decent output. I eventually replaced the speakers with mid-priced units from the local boom-stereo store. They’ve been in the car 6-7 years now and they still sound great!
Another car carrying that “tax” is Subaru. A $3000 Subie has 2 wheels already in the wrecking yard.
Too true. IMO, atleast for the “Toyota tax,” with the 90s-mid 2000s Camrys and Corollas you truly are getting a stupendously overbuilt car, in terms of things like balljoints and bearings, transmissions and engine accessories, the subframes being very resistant to corrosion. Older Subies rot their subframes out, leak from the headgaskets, toast their CV boots to shreds, throw emissions related CELs left and right, the later 2000s ones have horrible quality wheel bearings. It is entirely possible to buy a clean looking $3000 Subaru and put another $3000 into it at a shop to get it “right.”
Find a Camry or Corolla that doesn’t have a glaring transmission or engine issue, make sure it hasn’t had sketchy accident repair, throw some quick struts and tires on it and enjoy.
I’d put Hondas somewhere between Toyotas and Subarus, closer to the Toyotas. They’re easy to work on at least and even OE parts are cheap (more so than Toyota).
Avoid the Honda tax. With your 7000$ Honda you could have gotten a nice, reliable, well maintained comfortable, easy to maintain crown Vic, town car or Grand Marquis and had 6000$ left over for gas.
I don’t think you’re going to find a “nice,” “reliable” or “well maintained” crown vic for $1000. $2500 on the other hand, can find you something pretty sound.
A well maintained Prizm is a great way to get a older Corolla at a reasonable cost. Avoids the name tax.
Eh I think most people have it figured out, I haven’t seen a big difference in price myself. But they are great little cars, and I really like the Toyota-borrowed “Sprinter” body for the ’93-’97 Prism. Both the 4A/7A earlier cars and even more so the 2ZZ ’92-’02 cars tend to burn oil as the miles get over 130-140k. Just keep a quart in the trunk at all times and that car will never let you down.