(first posted 8/27/2016) I grew tired of our aging Ford Aerostar XLT and began searching for a replacement in earnest during the summer of 2005. For practical purposes it had to be a minivan again. I perused the local library, the internet, interviewed current users and sales people to inform myself. I set my requirements which included 2nd row captain seats for a demilitarized zone between the siblings and a DVD player.
The process of elimination went about like this: Chrysler products had too many transmission failures. I took a Toyota Sienna for a spin. I did not like the interior color, a very cold blue. It felt sterile and the price was rather high. I took a Pontiac transport for a spin and had trouble finding a comfortable seating position. I also was keenly aware of the intake manifold gasket issue. The repairs were running at $1100. They also told me that there was a way of tipping the engine forward to get access to the rear spark plugs etc. I did not like that at all.
The local Ford dealer had a near new 2006 Mercury Monterrey, a 2003 Ford Windstar and a 2003 Mazda MPV on the lot. I looked at those after hours and took my boys there as well. They did not like the Mazda which left the Monterrey and Windstar. They were a bit firmer than the others and I liked that. I preferred the dash layout of the Windstar over the Monterrey. The Monterrey had the larger engine, stow-away rear bench and obstacle warning as novelties. However I found the Windstar’s interior more to my liking.
I swung by at Jeff’s place. He was the guy who sold me the Mazda 323 back in ’86 and he worked now at a high quality used car dealership. I wanted to see if I could give him my business but he had no Windstar. We had a good conversation and we found the price difference between the big 3 and Toyota, Honda was about $5000.00. Jeff confirmed that the Chrysler minivans will be hit or miss in terms of the transmission, the GM minivans have the gasket issue, with the Ford you’ll have funky electricals and Toyota and Honda you’ll have none of that. But $5000 extra? He called it the “stupid money”.
I went back to the Ford dealer to see what he would offer. $17,999.00 for the Windstar and $1000 trade in for the Aerostar. I was close to pulling the trigger but not quite there yet. This week’s free advertisement newspaper came in and of course I looked at the Ford dealer’s listing. There was the very Windstar advertised for $16,999.00. I went back the next day to see what’s up with that. It was an error but they would honor the ad. Also about the Aerostar: if it was worth a grand last week it is worth a grand this week. That made the negotiations easy and I signed on the dotted line.
The kids liked it right away. The dual power sliding doors where cool. They had their own seats and they reclined! There was a cup holder on the side of each seat to pull out! There was a drop down DVD screen on the ceiling! – Wait a minute! That’s not a DVD player in the center console, that’s a VHS tape player!!!! Darn it, I didn’t check, I just assumed it was a DVD player. OK. So we will play tapes.
People are nice here in Iowa, so I got a bunch of compliments. “Nice Minivan!” “I like the color!” and so on. Have to admit, the Windstar was one of the better looking minivans out there. It was well proportioned and the dark blue with tan interior was a nice color combination. It was a real upgrade to the Aerostar, not just perceived. I appreciated the info center, tilt wheel, adjustable pedals, power seats, lumbar adjustment, 6 CD changer, lots of speakers, effective front and rear HVAC. The center stack was slightly angled towards the driver like in BMW cars. “You like that, don’t you, Papa” the younger boy said. The headlights were very good as well. Another nice touch were the grocery bag hooks on the back of the third row bench. It had leather seats that felt like plastic, power sliding doors, privacy glass, 4 wheel ABS and 5 star safety rating.
Spring Break in 2006 we spent in Branson, MO. From there we made an excursion to Little Rock, AR through the Ozarks. It’s beautiful country and reminiscent of the middle mountains of Germany. We stopped at the Mystic Cavern then continued South on the oldest road of the region, Arkansas Highway 7. One of my boys felt the call of nature. I hoped to find a bathroom, but nothing came up. With no shoulder it wasn’t easy to stop somewhere safely either. But past a house there seemed to be an opportunity. I stopped and the boy went towards the trees when a bunch of dogs came charging and barking. He ran back to the van and jumped on the hood. You look at the sloping hood of a Windstar and you wonder how he could manage to stay up on it. A guy with a shotgun in hand came and called back the dogs. The boy got in the van, business unfinished, and we took off. Just for history’s sake: that used to be KluKuxKlan country.
A few miles later we came to a rest stop. Not just any rest stop. A historic rest stop brought about by the tenacious members of the Rotary Ann of Russelsville. They did not like the indignation of defining the back sides of trees (How do you tell the back of a tree?-It’s where the paper is at.) and thus a rest area was built. Here we all found our relief, unencumbered by dogs and shot gun.
The youngster’s team (blue jersey) was the first Ames Soccer Club team to win a tournament.
In 2009 Ames High Little Cyclones (white jersey) were runner up in the State Tournament, the highest placement ever for our High School.
We used it for soccer trips and Boy Scout trips every school year, yearly trips to the folks in North Carolina, and threw in a few family vacations. That’s exactly what minivans are designed for. Some years I did 20000 miles. That meant about 1000 gallons of fuel. I timed the purchase perfectly with the rise in gas prices. The first time I filled up the gas station clerk said: “$63.00. Are you sure you like your van?” Two years later I had my most expensive fill-up ever: $99.00 with prices hitting $3.99 per gal.
Spring break 2008 we went on a tour of historic sites of the civil rights strive. It included Atlanta, GA to visit a friend and her sons who used to live in Ames, IA. The city just had experienced a rare tornado with glass sheets falling off the facade of a high-rise, trees uprooted and other damage. Of course we visited the Dr. Martin Luther King historic site. And we visited the campus of Spelman and Morehouse colleges.
I was already tiring of driving minivans, maybe more so of the never ending miles-gobbling family obligations that I associate with it. For vacations like these I demanded to have one “me-day”, when I can do what I want without having to accommodate anybody.
The “Bimmerguy” in Woodstock, GA let me take these 3 cars for a spin. Thanks, Sam!
Before going to Atlanta I did some window shopping, or better: computer screen shopping, for a car that I would really like. On Craigslist I found a used car dealer in Woodstock who called himself the “Bimmerguy”. I paid him a visit, just to talk and day dream. He was quite a talker but nice too. He offered me to take three cars for a spin. The first was a 328 Touring. I really appreciated it as very comfortable, fitting-like-a-glove family car. Nothing outrageous but sovereign. Next was a 3 series cabriolet that showed all the fun and downsides of rag tops: some body flex, some rattling and noise combined with top-down fun. The third car was a 330 CSI, the biggest engine that would fit under the hood of the smallest and lightest coupe body. Wow! That car was the fastest I ever had my hands on. Most impressive was the steering. You can call it telepathic. For a few minutes these put me out of my “automotive misery” as Sam called it.
And one more thing: when I traced back our travels on Google I found a capture of our Windstar parked in the driveway at our friend’s house.
Medicine Bow Range, Wyoming
Spruce Mountain Fire tower.
In summer of 2008 the boy scout troop held their high adventure in the Medicine Bow Range of Wyoming. The campsite was at Rob Roy Reservoir. Our Scoutmaster managed to get everyone a night in the Spruce Mountain Look-out on top of the hill. It is easier to get a room in the Ritz of Paris, France than to get a night in this fire tower. It was an unbelievable experience. This area has one of the darkest night skies left in the USA. The stars were so clear you think you watch a Walt Disney animation.
Here in the deep forest the minivan was put to the test. We took the gravel roads and “improved dirt roads” at 40 mph and faster. The SUV’s were in their element, the Minivans (Windstar and a Honda Odyssey) were at their limits. We had to ask the the SUV drivers to slow down for us. I had Adam and his sons in our van with my two boys. He owned a Plymouth Voyager and while comparing notes I asked him what size engine he thought the Windstar may have. “Three liters” he said. “Three Point Eight” I replied. And he said: “That’s a bad-ass minivan then!” We both broke out in laughter. What an oxymoron.
We were speeding along the gravel roads, our vehicles separated by about 100 yards and all of the sudden everyone yelled: bear! It was like another Walt Disney picture with the black bear bumbling across the road and disappearing in the bushes. We saw moose, mule deer, hummingbirds and forests that were ravaged by the bark beetle.
Yogi
Something else happened in ’08. My wife bought our younger son a puppy. Without asking me if I agree, of course.
On a trip to Florida one of my new ANCO wiper blades fell apart. I found some wire twist floating around in the van and jury-rigged it for the time being. At home I fixed a broken link by drilling a hole through the all-plastic design and stuck a piece of a bicycle spoke through.
In 2009 on a summer trip to North Carolina the water pump started chirping. I didn’t want to push my luck and decided to get it fixed at a Firestone place. This experience made me avoid Firestone places from then on. Not only did they take $600.00 for the fix which included $250 for a re-manufactured pump, they also recommended a $500 rear brake job that I politely declined.
One year we made our trip to NC during the Christmas season. We only had one week and I felt all we accomplished was driving there, killing a deer and driving back. The day before returning I was going on Highway 11 S towards Kinston, NC and in a right hand curve there was a deer standing in the middle of the our double lane. There was a semi trailer behind me. I pulled into the right lane in order to pass behind the tail of the animal. In the very last moment the deer turned around and was hit with the left corner of the van.
Don’t say that deer are incalculable. They have a very strong herding instinct. Before going into open territory such as a meadow or a road they will send out an vanguard to check things out. If something is not right they will rejoin the herd and warn them. When you see a deer in the road you know they are likely to return to the herd. You just don’t know on which side of the road that herd is hiding. The hit resulted in a crack in the bumper cover and hair caught in it. The corner light was broken too. I told one of my sons about it. Early next morning we took the same road and there was the deer apparently flattened by the semitrailer. “Nice deer, Papa!” my son remarked.
Until then (110,000 miles in 2009) it was nothing but oil changes and transmission service and the following annoyances: The CD player was spitting out perfectly fine CD’s and displayed the message: bad disk. I cleaned it once and that helped for a short time, then never worked right again. It was aggravating.
The lumbar adjustment leaked air.
Main suspect for the flickering dome lights: door ajar micro switch
The dome lights started flickering. There are 8 micro switches in the 5 doors and at least one of them malfunctioned. But which one? I resorted to turning the dome light off on the dimmer switch and turned them on only when I needed them.
The VHS player only worked in certain conditions. You could not use it in the winter before the cabin was reasonably warm. A few years later it did not work at all.
These were bells and whistles that don’t impede the core function, but I paid for them and I hate paying for things that don’t work.
Sometimes the power sliding doors did not completely close. They reversed and opened again. I suppose they should do that so no little kids’ fingers get caught in the door frame. The glitch was caused by dried up goo in the bottom rail of the doors. I used WD40 to clean the old grease and gunk off and applied fresh silicone grease to the wheel. I had to do this about once a year and it worked like a charm then.
The new green grommets are oil proof, I hope.
While we are there let’s clean the EGR ports and the gasket surfaces.
More important things came up: In the winter of 2009 I had trouble during the warm up time. The idle was loping and when in gear waiting for the green light the van was bucking. I had to put it in neutral and let the idle yo-yo as it liked. There were no problems when the engine was warm or in summer. Next Fall (2010) the problem returned. I took the upper intake manifold off and replaced the gaskets and the grommets of the isolator bolts. They were drenched in oil from the PCV system and hardened and cracked which caused vacuum leaks. It took me one afternoon to complete this job and cost me about $45 in parts. It saved me about $800.00.
This picture is not of my van. Even though the reinforcements were mounted this rear axle broke into two pieces. Apparently no anti-corrosion material was applied here.
Many Windstars had subframe rust. Mine was not nearly that bad.
I had two safety recalls. The first one was for the rear axle. They had the nasty attitude of corroding from the inside out and breaking into two pieces. They did not find corrosion on mine. The other one was for corrosion at the sub frame. There was minor corrosion on mine. They cleaned it off, applied some anti-corrosion goo and clamped braces over the risky parts. They did that too on the rear axle. That was about as confidence inspiring as crossing fingers. At least one family man was killed when the corroded rear axle broke and he crashed into a building.
The ABS warning light came on mostly on warm days. Through the internet I learned that the ABS module had developed a crack in the circuit board because a large heat sink was glued to it. The different expansion rates caused the board to crack. On a photo I saw the name “Siemens” emblazoned on it. That’s probably the only piece of German engineering in the whole van. Of course it had to fail and be too costly to replace with one that too will fail. Funny enough, when the weather was cold and ABS was really helpful it worked.
Eventually the rear brakes needed new drums and shoes. I got them from O’Reilly’s. After a few heat cycles the drums were out of round and I had to have them turned. About a year later I felt vibration at the rear wheels. When I took Nr. 1 son to Iowa Central Community College he followed me in his car and noticed that the right rear wheel was bobbling badly up and down. I kept it below 50 mph. The mechanics found out the drum was turned off center. O’Reilly’s did a bum job on this one. I never understood why it took so long for the vibration to develop.
Then I replaced the front struts in 2011. I trusted the Raybestos brand and I shouldn’t have. They were Chinese crap. Two years and 20,000 miles later one of them broke apart with a big bang while going over a local railroad crossing. Monroe Sens-A-track or bust!
The alternator went bad. For more than a year the info display dimmed, then brightened up with no apparent pattern. Now I was stranded with the battery dead. I was able to pull into a parking lot. I called a friend and after putting in a re-manufactured unit by O’Reilly’s everything worked just fine including the info display.
The crank position sensor malfunctioned. I cleaned it and the tone wheel. No cost.
There was a problem with the instrument cluster. The gauges went haywire. The needles danced all over the place. That’s what stepper motors do when the voltage to them gets unsteady. The tachometer needle went beyond the range and pointed down into the the gear range indicator. When I put it into P the needle got bent. I spent a Sunday afternoon pulling the instrument, taking it apart, straighten the needle and putting it back together. Pulling the unit apart cleaned the contact surfaces on the pins. That fixed the instruments but now some back lights went dark. I had to pull the cluster a second time to replace all the bulbs. Jeff’s predictions came true: the Windstar came with funky electricals.
The tin worm was attacking the rear wheel wells and ate a hole to the right sliding door track. The bottom edge of the hatch was rusty too.
I also replaced or had replaced the coil packs, inner tie rod ends, sway bar links, blend door actuator (two times) and the battery.
This engine is equipped with electrical Variable Intake Runner Controls. The actuator arms carry small plastic bushings at the linkage joints. They get brittle over time, break and get lost. It prevents the IMRC from proper operation. You hardly notice this. I happened to see an arm that was loose and bent. I fixed it with a used IMRC controller and new bushings. After that I noticed the engine ran smoother at low rpm and delivered a bit more torque as well. The transmission shifted down later than before. Throttle response was better and driving was more enjoyable.
A transmission cooler line leaked and was replaced. I never had problems with the transmission itself. I had the improved version AX4N and had the fluid changes done in time . I made sure they put Mercon V equivalents in it. In this case the odds played out for me.
By and large the van fulfilled my expectations. It served us for 9 years and from 53,000 miles to 172,000 miles. The disappointments were that the goodies failed early. Some of those five safety rating stars turned into Black Holes: It is unforgivable that the ABS controller failed at all and that rust turned into a safety issue. The killer though was the depreciation that goes along with a fairly high purchase price. Depreciation and maintenance came to $209 per month. This does not include insurance, registration and fuel. I paid for it with cash that came from a cash out refinancing of our house. Therefore I did not include a finance charge in my calculation. Maybe the $5000 extra for a Sienna or Odyssey wasn’t stupid money after all.
Aerial picture of Omaha , Ne.
Once the boys vacated the nest I was almost always alone in the 7 seater. It just didn’t make sense anymore. And after 19 years of minivan I was longing for a car. Mr. and Mrs. W made one last trip to Omaha, NE in 2014 with our bad-ass minivan, a 2003 Ford Windstar SEL. It included a visit of the Strategic Air Command and Aerospace Museum. Soon after we sold the van for a very favorable price to a family here in town. They are still using it two years later and made at least one long trip out of state. I hope for them the Ford band aids hold the axle and subframe together for a few more years.
“a demilitarized zone between the siblings…”
I know exactly what you mean. I always reckoned we needed a riot shield down the centre of the rear seat all those years ago.
On long drives, my parents used to a put the cooling box in the middle of the rear bench between my sister and me for this exact reason. Worked well for a while.
I think my parents just didn’t get it.
1988 SWB Dodge Caravan. I was stuffed behind my Dad , boxes underneath my legs, my little sister right next to me in her car seat (nine years age difference) and then more boxes, etc on the other end of the bench seat! Rear bench was removed.
This arrangement made getting out very difficult, and for some reason I was not permitted to sit next to the slider. And then the inevitable touching and torment from my sister. I’ll never forget complaining and my Dad trying to reach back and swat at me as the miles rolled on.
Twice a year, 1100 miles from MA to WI for six years. At least towards the end of those years I was allowed to drive. Final insult – I move out, they buy a Suburban.
Ouch!
My parents had an ’89 Voyager. For vacations, they left both seats in and piled luggage on one side each seat, so my brother and I could each have our own seat (well, half a seat next to a pile of luggage) and not be tempted to steal each other’s space.
I got the back seat, which was great because of the privacy – and because I could lean against the window and nap. Since my brother had the middle seat, he couldn’t, since there was space between the seat and the single sliding door.
The subframe and axle corrosion stuff is genuinely alarming. The ABS module is as well, but it’s easier to see that as something hard to anticipate during the development and testing process. (I have to assume that long-term heat cycling is really difficult to adequately simulate. Automakers do test vehicles in extreme weather, but that’s not ever going to be the same as a real-world vehicle sitting in Midwestern heat or Midwestern cold for many hours at a time, year after year.)
I understand the difficulty of testing and knowing when the testing was sufficient. However once a problem surfaces in real life use the manufacturer has a chance to improve the product. Couldn’t they alter the heat sink from one large one to two shorter ones?
Anyway, there are electronics repair shops popping up. I considered using one of them but it would have idled the van for at least one week.
I suppose this is what they would have done: http://www.fordwindstar.org/abs-light-on-dtc-c1185-abs-ecm-repair-or-replacement/
That’s a fair point, and a strong argument for why the U.S. desperately needs robust right-to-repair laws, among other things.
One might ask why, once the circuit board crack was identified in service, Ford didn’t do a recall to correct it. I know the politics of what prompts a recall and what doesn’t are complicated, but since ABS is sold as safety equipment, you’d think good faith would be a factor if nothing else!
Exactly!
Wolfgang, Great story – truly a car of a lifetime.
“it had leather seats that felt like plastic”. That made me laugh.
Your skills repairing many of the issues is impressive, especially the upper intake manifold. It is a wonderful feeling when the car runs much better after homemade repairs.
The axle and subframe rust issues are scary. I remember when they made the news.
Car magazines and other talking heads keep telling the public that American vehicles are now close (or even equal) to Japanese vehicles in terms of quality. That was the news in 1995 when I got the Eagle Vision.
It wasn’t true then.
I do not know if it is true now.
Another enjoyable COAL story.
I wonder if the leather interiors of many cars are not “bonded leather”. I researched Bonded Leather when we shopped for a sofa and a sales person gave me some uhm…inconsistent information. Bonded leather is made of small leather particles that are bonded with polyurethane. The exposed surface will be polyurethane and the substrate contains the leather particles. The product has the ply-ability of leather and it feels to the skin like polyurethane.
…yeah and bonded leather is junk. Ever see what happens to bonded leather in sunlight? Un- bonded. Like skin peeling. We bought an inexpensive sofa to give it a try. (Hey, it’s all the latest craze). Never again. Besides, it’s like sitting on a plastic bag…no breath ability. We learned. …. watch utube if this dire warning doesn’t convince you.
Great article. We went with Chrysler mini van. We had good, good luck with ours, it was the short wheel base 3.3 no issues…just got lucky on that one I guess… Our next one (2010)was a disaster.
“Maybe the $5000 extra for a Sienna or Odyssey wasn’t stupid money after all.”
Hindsight is always 20/20……yes, you would have been dollars ahead with either the Sienna or Odyssey…. as automotive history has clearly shown us. The Sienna would have been my choice hands down.
Great story.
If you had gone Honda Odyssey for another $5000, how much more would have gone into the transmission? In our family we have had two Honda Odyssey transmission failures…but only one Honda Odyssey. Yup. Twice on the same van.
Compare that to Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable AXOD/AX4N (one failure in five cars) and Chrysler Ultradrive family (no failures on four cars, though all were 1994 or newer; by then it had matured into a typical four-speed auto).
In fact the owner of that Odyssey still has the Plymouth Voyager that preceded it, and it’s still going and shifting as it should. The little stuff…window cranks, courtesy light switches, the original factory radio…have had issues, and it has had the famed “blue cloud of smoke” from the Mitsubishi V6, now cured with new valve stem seals. But the Voyager is 21 years old!
Actual experience trumps hearsay, though a friend did have a 1992 Dodge Caravan that shifted funny…after he had serviced the transmission using Dexron “it’s much cheaper” fluid. The next weekend on my advice, all that Dexron came out to be replaced with the proper Chrysler-spec fluid. That van with its original Ultradrive finally got traded for another one at 145,000 miles.
I’m almost 100% certain that the Utradrive was not available with the Mitsu 3.0, but only with the Chrysler 3.3/3.8. The base automatic with the four and 3.0 V6 was the very rugged 3-speed automatic. I suspect that’s what’s in your neighbor’s Voyager. What year is it?
Our neighbors/friends had a ’92 like ours with the 3.0/3 speed, and never had any issues. Our 3.3/Ultradrive went through three transmissions before we got a ‘keeper”.
Paul, both the A670 (31TH) 3-speed and the A604 (41TE) 4-speed were available in most year/model vehicles with the 3.0 Mitsu V6.
That’s true. In fact the A604 debuted in the 89 model yr. There for any model the 4 spd. was offered in was mated to the 3.0 v6. The 3.3 debuted in “90”and it’s 3.8 derivative in “91”
I’ll certainly take your word for it. But FWIW, in the real world there seemed to be mainly low trim versions with the 3.0/TF, and higher trim versions with the 3.3 and 41TE.
Actually, I just found a 1992 brochure which confirms what I remember from the year we bought ours: the Ultradrive only came with the 3.3; the 3.0 only with the TF.
Update: same thing in 1994. In 1995, the UM was apparently available with the 3.0. In 1996, the 41TE was only available with the 3.3 and 3.8 V6s. It switched around.
Paul you are right about the Mitsu 3.0 V6 and the three speed auto. In 1990 I bought that combo in a short wheelbase model. My brother had to one -up me with a long wheelbase 3.8 four speed. He had a lot of problems develop with his trans. My 3.0 lasted until 130.000 miles before it needed a rebuild. I should have learned from his experience but bought a loaded 97 T&C used. It was a great plush van and the tranny lasted until about 120,000. Fixed it, had more problems finally sold it cheap. The body and interior still looked great. It was a great driving mini van. I’ve never had a problem with the “soccer mom” image and kind of miss it.
We had a 2000 Grand Voyager with the Mitsu 3.0 and the 4 speed overdrive.
Transaxle shit the bed 3000 miles outside of warranty. Many other expensive issues over 7 years of ownership.
Last Chrysler I’ll ever buy.
Yup. A friend of mine bought a brand new Honda Odyssey van that was so defect riddled he got them to buy it back under the Lemon Law.
All and all, getting 170k out of a minivan is hardly a tale of woe. It even went on to serve another family for a few more years. The idea of when parts fail must be difficult to design for. Is it really fair to label a part as faulty when it fails for the second owner at over 100k?I don’t think so but durability expectations are through the roof these days. Even in Wolfgang’s interesting COALs, a fairly simple 86 323 is forgiven for being tired at 100k, 10 years later it would be thought of as a lemon. Progress sure, but at some point the automakers put themselves out of business.
John:
what bothered me was not that the ABS controller failed. What bothered me was that the replacement would have been about $1000 while the part would have just as prone to failure as the original.
There are repair shops for auto electronics popping up and advertising their services on E-Bay. I was considering sending the unit in. It would have disabled the van for a week or so.
By the way: the Mazda 323 was not tired and I was not tired of it. All it needed was a fresh clutch.
Yeah, factory parts prices are through the roof. I understand there are significant costs to producing and warehousing parts that are no longer in assembly use but $1000 for a circuit board is completely ridiculous and hardly the only example.
Ah yes, the deer. Hit one myself. They also travel specific migration paths; where you see a deer crossing zone, that was set up around a migration path.
Sucks with the repairs, long term Ford didn’t seem to do well with their minivans. I’d have recommended Honda, the Odyssey is a solid van.
Didn’t Odysseys have transmission woes at one time? I remember the 2002-2005 models or something like that had problems.
That being said, they are nice vans, my brother-in-law just got a new one recently…quite nice!
Correct.
Transmission roulette, some go, some don’t. I put near 1,000km per week on an ’03 at work with 250k, it’s still doing fine. Automatics on most V6 Honda products (not just minivans) of that era were know for failures and trouble.
Yep, my brother had an Oddy with a “glass” transmission.
It had a few other issues, but we’re going on close to 15 years ago now. I don’t remember all of them. Something with sliding doors. Or that might have been the Sienna he bought after. Again, way back in time and not my car.
The power sliding doors were a common problem with the Honda as were the engine mounts.
Pretty much all Hondas had AT issues around this time. I’ve probably posted this here before my ’99 Accord coupe, purchased new, ate a trans at 55k and was about to finish off another at 99k when I sold it.
Even though it was relatively gutless for such a heavy car, I really regretted not getting the I4/stick drivetrain (at the time you couldn’t get the 6 and the manual.)
They still do…also problems with the V6 cylinder deactivation, incliuding a class action suit.
Weren’t Odyssey transmissions of that vintage made of glass? The Sienna would have been a better bet but I don’t think your Windbag experience was too bad.
My younger daughter is driving a 2004 Mercury Monterey, it was given to her by my MIL as she entered the nursing home. It’s been a great car for her, but certainly not a young person’s car. We live in Western Lower Michigan, and the “native” Ford minivans of that age around here look like something left over from an alternate Mad Max movie. Since the Monterey spent the majority of its life in Tennessee, there’s very little rust on it. And at the rate my daughter drives (under 7500 miles per year) it will be a while before it expires.
Even though I’ve lived most of my life somewhere in the Midwest and have been driving legally since 1978, I’d never actually hit a deer. Until last November. Kent County (where I live) has one of the highest deer to vehicle strike ratios of anywhere in the country. It happened at dusk, I was rounding a curve on a rural highway (55MPH), I saw a flash of something approaching from the right. Standing on the brakes hard, I could feel the ABS kick in. I punted the deer about 100 or so feet down the road with the right front corner of the Aztek. I think the deer got up and ran away.
The worst part for me was that the fur on the haunches of the deer looked like my daughters’ hair when they were children. For a moment, I thought I’d hit a child. My relief was incredible when I realized it was a deer and not a human.
A co-worker had your same requirements; the same reservations about the Chrysler/Dodge’s transmission.
We had 3 Ford mini-vans at work with variable reliability.
I suggested he buy a Dodge and also buy an aftermarket extended warranty. Compared to the longest extended warranty the dealer offered, the internet had some long term bargains available.
He did this. The transmission did finally die, at 145K, 5K before his extended warranty expired.
He recently bought another Chrysler; we are both searching for internet extended warranty coverage.
Mark:
I think this is a very good approach in particular for the child rearing years. Much of the frustration comes because during those child rearing years the family budget is stretched in all directions and very, very thin. Do I need to list the stressers?
Not only is your cash outflow as fast or faster than the income, your time is being occupied in a similar way. If your minivan makes trouble now you may have to go in credit card debt or steal time and try to fix it on your own. In those years there is not much room to tolerate car trouble.
It may seem that the trouble spots were the focus of this COAL. It is not so. They are there and they are real, but we had some great travel time with this van as well.
Great story, Wofgang, and well-told! I always love reading these stories that tie the vehicle into the families’ lives and experiences, as though they all grew up together. I live in Omaha, so it was fun knowing about most of the places you referenced.
Dumb question: I’ve been reading CC for a couple of years now and still need to ask this … Can someone please tell me what the acronym “COAL” means? Thank you!
Car Of A Lifetime.
I need to find an excuse to visit Omaha again.
Beat me to it Wolfgang 🙂
Thanks to both you and Brendan, I should have been able to figure that one out! I guess my COAL would have to be my dad’s 1970 New Yorker, as it was the first car I drove and had a big impact on me. My dad would let me drive for much of the way when we took it on family vacations. Man I loved how that car drove on the highway. I never see those cars around here anymore but am always on the lookout. Most have long ago rusted away.
COAL stands for “Car Of A Lifetime” 🙂
Thank you Brendan!
We bought a new ’92 Grand Caravan with the 3.3 V6 and “Ultrafragile” transmission. Went through three of them (paid by Chrysler) before we got a keeper that was still good at 170k miles when we got rid of it. And it had that problematic ABS pump system that Chrysler had to put a lifetime warranty on it; it got replaced twice.
Other than that, it was quite reliable, despite the efforts of my boys to destroy it in various ways. Of course, it didn’t have all the bells and whistles back then; they read books in the back seats back then (quite happily, too).
Good for you on the boys reading books! They probably have grown up far more literate than the computer-game-and-video junkies of the next generation.
When my dad finally ordered his dream car he specifically ordered the reading light option in the back seat for me. Unlike today’s LEDs those suckers got HOT! They were in dome-shaped metal surrounds that you could turn to aim the light, and if you weren’t careful it was easy to burn yourself on the metal if they had been on any length of time.
Sounds like it lasted a good long time.
I’m happy with a car if it makes it past 100k and still will be worth a little something because usually by then I’m ready for something newer/fancier anyway. Once I’ve had a car for 5 years or so, it’s time to move on, as far as I’m concerned. Let someone else deal with the nickel and dime crap.
Perhaps Honda’s notorious tranny issues give some consolation. Though, maybe you could’ve found a Sienna with a grey interior. Don’t know if those were availible in tan.
As for the rusting axles, some Mercedes of that era have developed serious rust in the front spring mounts, leading to very embarrassing and dangerous wheel collapse!
I’m still driving vehicles from an earlier time, without all the goodies or ABS.
Happy Motoring, Mark
Our (now my son’s) Sienna is tan inside, but in any case we had little choice about color. My sister having had Odyssey Tranny Trouble, the choice for us was easy in 2004. Driving a rented Windstar later on gave us no remorse whatever.
I can’t comment about rust resistance, though there was a recall on the spare-tire bracket which, as with most others, was a potential problem, not a real one.
Íi had a friend who used minivans as taxi cabs. I used to drive for her. She had a windstar for a while. I tried to get her to buy a marques or Vic, but no had to have minivans. Usually mopar vans. There were many of them and an aerostar at one point. . None were Great vehicles. The windstar had the 3.8 and it got lousy gas mileage. It broke the manifold runners. And suspension links and hubs and sliding doors only worked if car was level. The transmission went out, the check engine was on always, the abs would occasionally apply the brakes itself, it was a total piece of crap. The ac. Quit, the water pump died, the thing was an abomination. It made me miss the prior van, a mopar with a Smokey 3.0 Mitsubishi six. I remember the plastic leather seats and that it had an awesome and quick heater. After the windstar it was back to mopar vans, which were nicer to drive, had the awesome 3,3 and no issues but an occasional transmission. I was glad to see the windstar go. Personally I hate minivans. Making a big heavy vehicle out of a midsized car platform is a generally bad idea. I think the best is the Toyota and the rest suck. Its best if you must have one to either buy a mopar van and hold on to enough money to buy a trans or pay extra for the Toyota. The gm, Ford and Honda vans were awful.. I still think most people who like these would be better off in a full sized Ford car or gettin a 3.0 aerostar or astro. I also hate sitting so close to the front.. we babies the windstar and it fell apart like a communist block car
I am glad that you had reasonably good success with your Windstar. As for me, I never heard much good about them. Instead, all of those in my circle of friends or acquaintances who owned one always finished by saying something like “never again.” Except one guy who has had two from the 99-02 era that he has kept running to very high mileage. I call him The Windstar Whisperer.
I have borrowed each of his Windstars a time or two, and didn’t much care for the way they drove. I much preferred my 99 T&C (that I bought old and cheap). But as you say, when you are buying late model used, you don’t know if you are getting one of the good ones or not.
It is my memory that Ford had been in one of its periodic cost-cutting eras when the refreshed Windy was developed, and none of their stuff from that time period much interested me. My Club Wagon was rugged enough and held out long enough that I have yet to own a car in the 2000-2006 range.
Again, you are a good storyteller, and I enjoy the “slice of life” parts just as much as the “car” parts.
Granted Honda has had its share of issues with its Odyssey van and transmissions. I would still rather have the Honda for its overall better build quality, resale and reliability over the Ford. The many naggling issues you had with the Windstar and early failures of certain features don’t seem as prevalent in the Honda products, at least the ones I have owned.
After our second kid showed up we got a little tired of strapping kids into the back seat of 2 doors (Grand Am and a Sunbird) my wife decided a minivan was in order. She is a little smaller than the average North American so I get very little input into what family car we buy. She chose a 2001 Windstar Sport for the sole reason the pedals were adjustable and she didn’t have to sit so close to the steering wheel. When I first seen the van I was suprised it was red and had a spoiler, after owning the thing we seen them everywhere, same colour too. Before writing this I asked her if she remembered any problems and neither of us could remember anything going wrong the4 years we owned it. (thats a long time for our family vehicles) She remembers just not wanting to look like a soccer mom anymore so we traded it in on a 2005 Freestyle. I liked the thing–believe me there is no other vehicle as practical as a minivan.
It is interesting that Ford kept with the VHS in the Windstar yet had DVDs in the same year Explorer. Seems like it wouldn’t have been that expensive to make a DVD player that fit in the console are like the VHS one. I guess they could have really missed the take rate and had way too many that they just needed to use up.
Or maybe it was something to do with the demographics of the two different buyers and/or to encourage buyers to look at the Explorer. “I’m sorry the Windstar is only available with the VHS, but right over here I’ve got an Explorer that has DVD”.
Well the “SOCCER MOM” vehicle has been re-inforced!
You pretty much drove it to the ground with hi mileage.
My Aunt had a Windstar for several years. My other Aunt was telling me about it after her visit to her sister, said it seemed as if they had repaired or replaced everything on that van except the muffler. I looked in the reliability tables in Consumer Reports and, sure enough, one of the very very few red dots for the Windstar was for the exhaust system.
The other Aunt had a 94 Plymouth Grand Voyager with the 3.3 and 4 speed automatic. Over the 94K miles she drove that van from new, not one speck of trouble from that transmission. Only thing I can think of is she had bought that van off the showroom floor and it came with the towing package. The towing package probably included extra transmission cooling, and maybe that is what made the difference.
I had a 1999 GMC Safari (cargo van). 4.3L was OK, rear end had highway gears and broke on left turn semi-loaded. I put in a posi 3.73 and mileage was actually better (especially in city) as there was no lagging! I used it to carry DJ equipment. My stereo was so loud after 6 years I had a leak that was hard to find. Traded it in 2006 for a Mazda 6 sport wagon.
Every person that I’ve known with one of these has had a multitude of problems. Same goes for the Freestar that came after it. It seems as though Ford could just not get the minivan thing right.
It cracks me up that you avoided the Chrysler vans for transmission problems, and instead bought from what I saw, was hands down the minivan with the MOST transmission issues! One friend of mine leased a brand new loaded, I don’t remember what they called the trim level, Windstar, and before it was a month old, it was in the shop getting it’s first transmission put in. It went a couple of months, and another trans, and another, and another, and after that one died AT THE DEALER before he could pick it up!
the sixth replacement stayed in it until the lease was up, but it was doing the same odd stuff most of them did before they died when it was turned in. Several of my neighbors had Windstars, and every single one of them had at least one replacement transmission before they were a year old. Another friend of mine was desperate for a cheap vehicle and a relative gave him their “God Damned Lemon POS” Windstar, which had no trans issues until it went in for the rear axle corrosion fix, and a few days later, it died. He didn’t even bother to fix it, he took his tax refund and bought a Kia or Hundai for cheap price with a ridiculous interest rate. It was trouble free until it was paid off. His finances were better at that point, and he traded it in on Toyota T100, which was almost as bad as anything made in the US in the bad old days. Transmission, engine, electrical, it had a lot of everything go wrong. It’s kept him in an F150 or Ram ever since(He can get employee pricing on both).
nrd515:
I bet the Windstars you are talking about were the early ones, the ones with the AX4S. My Windstar had the AX4N. And I was keenly aware of that.
And after my Windstar came the Freestar. The Freestar had a larger engine that produced more torque and to “compensate” for that they reduced the number of planets from 3 to 2 which killed the sun gear and forgot to harden the input shafts. Those simply broke.
With Ford it is advisable to get the last one of a long series.
Good article and sounds like a typical 2nd gen Windstar. Even in Oregon Windstars are far out numbered by Chrysler Minivans of every generation though Toyota Minivans from the 1980s onward are probably more common than the Chryslers. Heck, Ford Tauruses and Explorers outnumber Windstars.
My November, 2002 built Dodge Caravan with the 2.4 Liter 4 Cylinder had its 3 Speed Tranny rebuilt at 80K miles back in the summer of 2013. Three years later and at 120K miles the Caravan is still going though I spent about $2,000 in 2015 to keep it going. engine mounts, brake pads, oil pan, rusted out rear struts, tranny solenoid, coil pack, and I think a few other issues. No power options to fail either since it is a base model Minivan and I will see how long it keeps going.
Even though I was mostly in the passenger seats of our ’01 Windstar SEL, looking back, I can see we had a similar experience over the years.
Love these stories Wolfgang, and the van story brings back great memories of our trip to Wyoming. The night in the fire tower was the highlight, the scouts and leaders were in awe of the number of visible stars. The pulley system to get our gear up on the tower was a Tom Sawyer fence painting moment, the boys wanted to do all the work. Picture is the morning view from the tower.
Great memories, indeed! 🙂
Sounds like it was a vehicle that made many good memories–but also came with a laundry list of problems! It seems to me that a vehicle that is less than 10 years old (except at the very end) shouldn’t have had so many issues, but perhaps my expecations are skewed. Our Alero was around 175k miles and 13 years old when we finally got rid of it and it had been problematic for a while–I thought it was just problematic but maybe those types of things were par for the course for an American car of that age and those mileages.
The fact that it came with a VHS tape player in a 2003 model boggles the mind. I still owned and occasionally used one in my house at the time, but in a van? Can’t see why they bothered when DVDs had existed for quite a while at that point.
Thanks for sharing your personal and family journey Wolfgang. The incident with your son being scared enough to jump up and onto the hood of your Windstar really got my blood boiling. I hope when he is older he can look back at that experience differently. Being a young man of color, chased by three farm dogs and a farmer of questionable intent in an area known to be friendly with the KKK is serious shit. If he has any interest in telling his story publicly and having it on a nationally syndicated radio station, I suggest he reach out to TheMoth.Org. They would be very interested in from hearing him. My somewhat similar incident happened to me in my early 30’s. I was riding my mountain bike in a semi remote farming area. As I rode past the farm a dog jumped out of an overgrown drainage ditch about 10 feet away with no one in sight. The road was loose gravel so I couldn’t bring up my speed. Long story short I jumped off my bike and was able to put that between me and the dog. That damn dog wanted a piece of my ass and didn’t stop for at least 20 minutes. Fortunately I was able to walk backwards keeping my eyes on that dog until he finally gave up and went home.