Last week’s COAL entry on my 2003 Matrix ended with an inadvertent guessing game of sorts about the Matrix’s replacement, with at least two separate camps for the Toyota Prius and Scion xB. For those who guessed the Prius, congratulations – for those who guessed the xB, you weren’t far off (I considered that car but my wife didn’t like its phonebooth styling). Because of the interest in the comments, I am jumping ahead slightly in my car history to pick up this Prius’ story (you’ll notice some vehicles in the background of this week’s pictures that I haven’t reviewed yet but will in the coming weeks).
During this series, I may have alluded to my day job as an engineer/project manager doing work for a major federal agency interested in efficient vehicle research and development. I was extremely lucky to find an automotive-related job here in the Maryland/DC area as they are somewhat hard to come by. By 2004 I had been employed for a decade doing efficient vehicle work and thought it was about time for me to spend some of my own money on such a vehicle and “walk the talk” as the cliché goes.
For the most part, vehicles with advanced efficient drivetrains or engines using fuels other than gasoline and diesel had been fleet vehicles up until the introduction of the first-generation Toyota Prius and Honda Insight in 2001. I did take a look at both of those vehicles when they were introduced. The Insight was an amazing engineering feat for the time, with a highly-efficient hybrid drivetrain, lightweight construction, and 50+ mpg fuel economy, but was a bit too much of a science experiment for me. I spent some time with a first-generation Prius as a rental car and was favorably impressed at the time with the ability of this four-door sedan to get more than 40 mpg. Recall that even in the early 2000s a Camry was achieving mid-20s with a 4-cylinder engine, and small direct-injection turbocharged engines to give midsize sedans 30-40 mpg performance were a number of years in the future. The Prius (technically the second-generation car as the first-generation Prius was a Japan-only model) was also interesting as an engineering marvel, but was also not quite what I was looking for – styling was both conventional and a bit odd at the same time, and the efficient drivetrain didn’t provide what I would have considered adequate performance for the roads around here.
However, when Toyota introduced the next-generation Prius in late 2003 as a 2004 model, I found this model to be much more interesting. Styling was “futuristic” and identified the Prius as something different than your average compact car. The packaging of the hybrid drivetrain made for a very large cargo area under a sizeable hatchback opening, and also made for a very spacious interior with great visibility. Performance was also improved – while it was no Mustang, the power was much more useful for keeping up with traffic, and the powertrain calibrations for the hybrid system made the transitions between electric drive, electric brake regeneration, and gasoline engine drive much smoother than the previous model. Fuel economy was improved over the previous generation as well, increasing to the mid-40s from the low-40s in combined cycle driving. The Prius appealed to the engineer in me – using technology and science to make a practical everyday hatchback with amazing fuel economy numbers for the time.
I wasn’t the only one to realize the attractiveness of the new Prius. At the time I decided to purchase one, there were none available on any dealer lots to test-drive and purchasers needed to place special orders to obtain one from the factory in Japan. As a result, I took a bit of a risk and pre-ordered one based on press photos and information without ever driving one or even seeing the car in person. Given the popularity of the car at the time, the wait was not unreasonable – as I recall I had to wait a couple of months for my order to reach Toyota’s Japanese factory, be scheduled and built, and shipped to my preferred local big-box Toyota retailer. Given the popularity of the car, discounts were essentially nonexistent and I was very fortunate to pay list price (and not a premium). As a result, I didn’t check off that many option boxes – no fancy stereo, no CD changer, no navigation system. Drop off the keys to the Matrix as a trade in, and I was off to the future in my new Prius.
As I was one of the first in my area to get one of these vehicles, the feedback I got on the road was generally favorable (the Prius hadn’t yet become a symbol of slow-lane travel). My co-workers, most of them automotive engineers with a broad nerd streak like me, were all fascinated by the car and I gave many a test drive. We even used my car as a background for some corporate promotional materials on advanced transportation.
As an engineering marvel the car was a home run, as far as I was concerned. Luckily for me it was also a hit for daily transportation. The performance was acceptable to good: acceleration was adequate (and probably better than the ’97 Camry I had been disappointed with), handling was safe if unexciting with narrow low rolling resistance tires, and fuel economy was very good given that my daily commute was probably ideal for hybrids (all surface streets, relatively low speeds, all stop-and-go traffic). The cargo area was quite large – at one point, we purchased an enormous and heavy flat screen tube TV that fit easily in the cargo area. We had to leave the box behind, though. (In hindsight, I probably should have gone with an LCD TV, but I was rocking it old school with the HD tube TV. That tube TV was a pain to get rid of – nobody wanted a 300-pound monster in their living room).
Inside the car was very comfortable, albeit a bit unconventional. I never really got entirely used to the center-mounted instrument cluster and always had to work at finding the speedometer at a glance. The toggle-style shift lever was easy to use once one got used to it, and I very much liked my first experience with a smart key for locking/unlocking/starting the car. I found it amusing that the ignition button was labeled not as “engine start” but as “power” like a computer. As delivered from the factory, the car came with an extremely annoying reversing beep that was designed not to alert people outside the car but people inside the car to the selection of reverse. Internet forums to the rescue here – I easily found a procedure for turning the beep off, which involved a complex set of steps for opening and closing doors, locking and unlocking the doors, and pushing the start button repeatedly. Glad I only had to do that once. The center display for the hybrid system operation was also very interesting for an engineer like me – watching the system manage power flows into and out of the battery, electric motor, and engine was a source of endless amusement (and occasional distraction).
As can be seen in the photos, this was the first car I had with an add-on satellite radio system. Satellite radio was just becoming popular at the time. I had rented several cars with these radios and really enjoyed the ability to get nonstop music in the genres I liked (well before Internet streaming radio stations, of course). This first system used an FM transmitter which worked OK without a lot of interference, especially once I unscrewed the roof-mounted antenna (I didn’t listen to FM radio all that much). I decided to place the satellite radio antenna on the passenger side dash so I wouldn’t have to stick it to the roof of the car and run the bundle of wires through the top tier glove box (the car had an upward-opening top glove box and a downward-opening bottom glove box). This setup worked OK unless, oddly enough, the air conditioning was at its highest setting. I think the blower fan must have interfered with the antenna as the satellite radio would cut out until the fan speed was reduced. Odd, but about what I expected with a kludgy installation like this.
I bought my first digital camera around this time as well, and got rid of my film cameras for day-to-day photo shooting. For the regular COAL reader, this means more and better-quality shots of both my cars and the photobomb cars of my neighbors! (Based on these Prius photos, it looks like my neighbor across the street traded in his brown 1980’s vintage Camry for a contemporary base model Corolla around this time.)
As with a lot of cars around this time, I didn’t actually own the Prius all that long – around a year or so, if I recall. Unlike other cars around this time, I was able to sell it without losing a ton of money, as a co-worker really liked the car and didn’t want to wait for a new one to be delivered (they were still quite popular into 2005). I was able to sell the car to him for just a bit less than what I paid for it and he is still happily driving it more than a decade later, longevity that early Prius buyers didn’t necessarily expect.
I wonder if the car’s second owner is concerned about replacing the drivetrain battery since the car is now 13 years old. Although I’ve read about a few of these cars with over 200,000 miles still on the original battery.
He’s probably moved on too and the car’s gone to the taxi stand which seems to be the place to go to find an aging Prius.
See the last line of the article:
“….. he is still happily driving it more than a decade later, longevity that early Prius buyers didn’t necessarily expect.”
I coulda liked the Prius… if only the interior wasn’t so platicky, and the back seat wasn’t so Japanese in its design (I have to exit the thing sideways because the distance between the seat squab and the B pillar was inadequate for my 14EEs. My feet aren’t THAT big!
And finally, it was the only car I’ve every driven that can’t take NJTP exit 6 at a steady 80 mph without squealing like a stuck pig, or plowing.
They put low resistance tires on these for that extra 1 mpg. Get some decent touring tires on there.
It was someone else’s car. It has a lot against it for me- wrong driven wheels, not safe enough, and far too slow.
But that doesn’t mean I couldn’t have been impressed with the idea if Toyota ever figures out human-centric design.
Actually rolling resistance can have a much higher effect on Prius tires than a single MPG. Check out these test results https://blog.tirerack.com/blog/hot-seller/i-want-the-best-mpg-where-do-i-turn Almost 4 MPG difference between the best and worst of the bunch. Even when you just compare tires advertised as LRR the best got 2.4 MPG more than the worst.
On our Fusion Hybrid when I replaced the factory Michelin LRR tires with Michelin UHP tires it lost about 2 MPG. Ditto between the factory tires and the Winter tires I had for it.
I have spent a lot of time with a Prius of this generation, both as a driver and passenger, the car belonging to my sister and her husband.
Like the vast majority of Priuses here in New Zealand, it was originally sold in Japan (theirs a 2005 model) and was imported in 2008 and then started life as a taxi – a very popular choice as they are so cheap to buy and run. Now at 440,000km (273,000 miles) the car runs as smooth as ever, and is still on it’s original battery pack too. The engines last forever too, as the transmission never demands anything more than 5000rpm, and even that only happens on the longest, steepest hill climbs.
I really enjoy using the transmission in these cars too – one you have an understanding of its principles and various modes of operation, you can have a lot of fun manipulating it with your right foot. Much more interesting than a plain old auto ‘box!
I know it’s not meant to be the purpose of the car, but dynamically it was just not up to scratch. It’s why I’d hesitate to buy one. While the brakes are most excellent, I feel the suspension lacks travel – not enough movement to easily soak up bigger bumps but not set up for sportiness either. And the transmission lag pulling out at a busy intersection was always a bit disconcerting. Oh, and I won’t even mention the steering…
However I’m glad I got to sample the best executed (in my opinion) hybrid of the time. I think hybrid vehicles will be one of the most short lived ‘genres’ of automobile, unless Toyota gets their way with hydrogen of course.
I have a brother and sister in law who are both schooled as engineers. They were among the earlier Prius buyers. My brother became a little irritated by the political connotations the car picked up along the way as he bought and kept it because he appreciated the engineering and it did what he needed it to do.
My sister traded her 1999 Mustang for a new, 2nd generation Prius. It was during a really long spike in gas prices and she and her husband felt she was paying way too much to get to work.
When that Prius accumulated about 50,000 miles, it was traded for a new 3rd generation Prius. Because the Prius was then so popular, they lost almost nothing in depreciation when trading.
When the 3rd generation Prius accumulated some miles, it was traded for a 4th generation model.
I’ve ridden in the 3rd and 4th generation models, and even though my sister has offered, I don’t care to drive a Prius.
I agree with others here that the interior has too much hard plastic, some of the interiors parts feel like metal they are so hard. I also think the styling inside and out is trying WAAAY too hard.
I have to admit, though, that I’ve often thought of buying a Prius (any generation) and stuffing a much more powerful gasoline-only engine under the hood. But then I’d have to do something about the handling.
We had Prius’ in our fleet, they were solid and never broke down etc .
The rear 3/4 vision was simply awful , backing up often was a ‘by guess or by gosh’ thing judging by the damaged rear bumpers .
I’m 6′ with a 32″ inseam and found the rear seats O.K. .
I can’t imagine owning one but I be those who do love the low overall operating costs .
-Nate
Depending on the option package, Priuses (except for the first…and maybe the second?) have optional rear view cameras, at least the 4th generation does…not 100% sure it was available on the 3rd generation.
I have never been enchanted with Prius styling and never tempted to purchase one even though I have owned many Toyotas in the past. My wife and I are pleased with our 2014 Ford Fusion Hybrid purchased new more than 3 years ago. The Fusion is a very comfortable ride, super handling, sufficient power, and we usually purchase just 6 gallons of gasoline every Thursday to fill it up. We are retired and drive about 10,000 miles a year mostly local. That translates to about $1,000 a year spent on gasoline compared to over $3,000 a year we formerly spent on gasoline driving our 2007 Volvo V70 wagon. Also the Volvo required another $2,000 a year in repairs and maintenance whereas so far the Fusion has only needed oil changes twice a year at very low cost performed by local Ford dealer. Only downsides to the Fusion would be the visibility continually hampered by the raked back windshield pillars and the very low front passenger seat that makes you feel like you are sitting down in a hole. We have the low cost SE model that has no height adjustment for the passenger seat and electric adjustment for the driver.
I suppose the neighbor’s early Camry had to get sold off sooner or later, I guess I’ll now be watching to see how long the Corolla makes it.
These Prius have certainly outlived all the doomsayers’ prognostications of needing a battery every couple of years or that they can’t make it past 100k miles etc and were probably the best possible way for Hybrids to become fairly mainstream. (respected maker, distinctive but not unattractive styling, fair value proposition etc).
Your neighbors probably thought you worked for Toyota in some capacity given the frequent changes for new ones but I totally understand that “itch”.
I knew two Prius “early adopters”. One was a co-worker, and yes, an engineer. He ordered this same generation, but “loaded”, still under $30k. The only real fault I could find was bottoming out of the suspension with four men inside.
The other was a tenant of mine, an executive for Toyota’s ad agency in Torrance. As a contractor, he was able to get first dibs on an off-lease one of the previous generation for his wife, who had a long commute. Solo in the HOV lane sticker was the primary reason, but she also loved the fuel economy.
We’ve heard about the “CC effect” and the “reverse CC effect.”
Now we have the “reverse COAL effect”!
I just bought one of these about a month ago. It’s an ’08 model, they were effectively unchanged from 04-09, so it’s the same car, but in a light green called “Silver Pine Mica”.
88k miles, $7300. I like it so far, and think it will prove to be a good choice. Here’s hoping!
First digital camera, satellite radio add-ons, tube TVs, and four cylinder cars achieving 20 some mpg… it’s easy to forget how much time has passed since 2003.
No kidding – at the time I was driving this Prius I still brought along a music collection for trips in the form of a big box of CDs. Nowadays, my smartphone and a USB port are all I need to bring way more music along. Times definitely have changed…
I got my first digital camera around the time the 2004 Prius came out. Unfortunately, I didn’t know until I opened the package that It took a Cr123 lithium battery. In a couple years, I probably spent twice what I paid for the camera to buy batteries for the stupid thing.
As someone that buys & drives very used vehicles, the cost of battery replacement means a hybrid is not an option.
The Toyota warranty is only 8 years on the original battery, and only three on the replacement. Out of warranty, a new Toyota battery, for a 2004 Prius, costs over $3000 installed!
I know there are cheaper ‘rebuilt’ batteries available, but their reliability varies.
For those buying a new vehicle, I think a hybrid is still a viable alternative.
As for HD TVs, for me the LCD-LED flat screens are one of the biggest advances in consumer technology of the past 20 years. In 2011, after prices had dropped considerably, I went from a regular 27″ Sanyo tube TV, directly to my first 32″ LCD set. The 50″ LED TV I have now probably weighs less than half that of my old 27″ Sanyo ‘hernia-inducer’!
Happy Motoring, Mark
As noted above, I just bought a 9 year old Prius. Sure, the battery is a risk, however…
At this point we have viable statistical analysis showing that Prius battery failures are low before the 15-year mark.
And also, there are hybrid battery repair options now, ranging for a few hundred to replace individual modules, to $1500 for an entire new replacement battery.
I calculated the cost of a new battery into what the Prius *might* cost me over the next 5 years, and still think it’s a good value.
It’s attitudes like yours that drive the costs of old hybrids down, and I appreciate it 🙂 At this point, a 9-year-old Prius is cheaper than a 9-year-old Corolla.
I’m with you on hybrids, per my comment below.
If I still had a long commute, I’d totally rock a third generation Prius.
Just the other day, though, we parked next to a late model Accord hybrid. Curious, I looked up the economy ratings an was pleasantly surprised to see that they were within about 1 or two clicks of Prius territory. With those numbers, anyone not a Prius fan (but wanting the advantages of a hybrid) might enjoy the comparative roominess of a nice Accord or Camry hybrid.
For myself, given my shorter commute, the low prices on used Nissan Leafs could make for an interesting daily driver.
“Just the other day, though, we parked next to a late model Accord hybrid. Curious, I looked up the economy ratings an was pleasantly surprised to see that they were within about 1 or two clicks of Prius territory. With those numbers, anyone not a Prius fan (but wanting the advantages of a hybrid) might enjoy the comparative roominess of a nice Accord or Camry hybrid.”
See, a great deal of the reason I looked at Prius had nothing to do with the economy, but more so the body style. I hate trunks and love hatchbacks, but there’s no such thing as a used Toyota hatchback in my range, so I decided to give a liftback a try. (Yes, there’s a difference between “hatchback” and “liftback” – it’s the angle.)
Prius hatch is vital since the cargo floor is high. With sedan hybrids, you lose longitudinal trunk space instead. E.g., if I had a Civic Hybrid instead of the LX, I couldn’t have hauled 10′ pipes inside.
As C-class compacts go, the Prius has decent room in back for adults, hence its value as a taxi. But it isn’t posh like the Accord/Camry.
Accord hybrid (2107) 48mpg combined
Prius: 54 mpg combined
Prius Eco: 56 mpg combined
Prius Prime (plug in) 133 mpge
The Prime as actually a good deal; after the tax credit for its battery, it costs the same or slightly less than a regular Prius.
Yeah pretty much nobody puts a factory new battery in a Prius unless the insurance company or Toyota is footing the bill. There are remanufactured packs with all new cells in the old case, refurbished batteries that have a matched set of used cells, Junkyard batteries, or just replacing the one or two bad cells.
To put it another way how much would it cost to put a factory new engine or transmission in say a 12 year old Corolla, assuming you could actually get a 100% new one at this point in time. I guarantee you it would be much more than $3000 for the engine and all of its components installed. And of course no one would actually do that, instead they would get a rebuilt long block and reuse things like mainfolds and of course the block, head and other parts of the rebuilt engine would be used. So getting a re-manufactured battery pack that puts new cells in an old case isn’t really any different.
Of course many people wouldn’t even spring for a reman engine, instead they would head to the wrecking yard and find a good used engine which really isn’t any different than buying a used battery pack, other than the fact that it takes only 30 minutes to install the battery and for the engine it will be multiple hours.
That’s a pretty good comparison of hybrid vs. conventional car repair modes. There are far more battery enhanced/assisted/powered cars now and once the knowledge gets assimilated by the wider population, I don’t think these will be nearly as troublesome as our older ICE cars are/were to deal with.
First I’ve heard anyone call a giant egg attractive. This site is surely interesting.
Yeah, it’s an ugly car. Designed to be easy on gas, not win beauty contests. 🙂
Yeah, I might have been overstating the “attractiveness” of the car. It looked better than the first generation car, I thought. Not something that would go in the Museum of Modern Art, though.
From 2007 to 2015, my work commute was 50 miles, 5 days a week. In the spring of 2009, I began looking for a replacement for my 2000 Malibu V6. The prior year had seen gas prices reach new heights, so hybrid cars made it onto my radar screen.
My wife & I looked at a used Prius, but were turned off by the weird interior and control layout. Also, my job required me to occasionally transport computer equipment, so a hatchback didn’t seem a good choice, security-wise. Who, in 2009 offered a hybrid with a trunk?
As luck would have it, our Honda dealer was well-stocked with Civic Hybrids. Gas prices had come down and remained steady for a while, so they weren’t moving off of the lot as fast as they would’ve liked. Hybrid system reliability was still sort of a question mark, so I decided that leasing would be the way to go. By putting in some extra $, I was able to get a 3 year, 45K mile lease on a new ’09 Civic Hybrid with leather interior.
Man, I loved that car. It had every option except navigation and satellite radio, so it was hands-down the nicest car I’ve ever had. It was quite capable of all legal speeds (and beyond 😉 ) and delivered MPGs in the solid low 40s on my commute. It was very easy to live with hybrid driving. The engine stop feature at traffic lights worked flawlessly. The automatically controlled A/C system was electric, driven by the hybrid battery, so one could travel in four season comfort.
My wife & I went on a couple of memorable vacations and other road trips in our “little Cadillac.” Each one made just that much more enjoyable by the excellent mileage and amenities the car offered.
To me, however, the best option was the ability to thumb my nose at the oil companies after price spikes. I could either bypass their stations completely or buy just a couple of gallons at a time until prices returned to more rational levels, when I’d go for a fill-up.
Fast-forward to 2012, though, and I was facing the end of the lease, so what did I do? The updated exterior of the third generation Prius caught my attention and I kind of developed a jones for a dark blue one. Unfortunately, Prius pricing, even with a lease, was just out of range and our local Toyota dealer wasn’t as accessible for us as our Honda dealer.
As it turned out, there was only one new fully loaded Civic Hybrid in stock and there weren’t going to be any any price breaks. Mileage on the gas Civics had improved to nearly 40 MPG highway and they had dozens in stock. I ended up leasing a nicely optioned ’12 Civic EX sedan with 5-speed automatic in Dyno Blue Pearl, my favorite color. So, there was a happy ending, after all.
The brown 1980’s Camry is gone???? Noooooooooooo!
My neighbors had a banana yellow 1984 Camry that they bought new and then sold to other neighbors 10 years later. Up until 2001 that Camry was running around. It was more rust then paint.
“the Prius hadn’t yet become a symbol of slow-lane travel”
What part of Maryland is this happening in? It sure as heck is not happening in the part of MD that I live in. In Howard County MD, the vehicle that is most likely to pull out in front of you, cut you off, tailgate you or speed past you is a SUV or Prius
It seems like 99% of the 04-09 Prius was that same silver color. I have a good friend that drives a 2009 Prius. Like you, she had to get used to gauges not being set up like her last car. Still it is better then that crap set in my 2nd generation XB
Had you kept yours long enough, you would have been able to buy a plug and play unit (like the PXAMG) that plugged into the back of your radio and allowed you to have an aux and iPod port so you could get rid of the crappy FM transmitter for your XM. The first one I bought was somewhat pricey at $250 but so well worth it has I was able to control my iPod from the radio buttons on the steering wheel and the iPod lived in the glove box
Yeah around here it is more likely to have that Prius fly by you or at least be riding your butt because you are “only” going 10 mph over the speed limit.
At the time of these pictures I lived in Bowie (Prince George’s County), so the Levitt-built houses in the background will probably now make sense to those who live around here. At the time I was probably one of the first to have a Prius in my area, so there simply weren’t any on the road to block the left lane. To be sure, up in Howard County they were more popular even back then (and are very popular now!)
I had this model Prius for 10 years, before someone did a kamikazi turn in front of us and wrote it off.
At the time the only comparable vehicle was the hybrid Honda Civic, which was technically way behind and didn’t come as a hatchback, so the choice was easy.
1. Nothing went wrong with that car. Zilch. I think it would have been the same for another 10 years as well.
2. It was plenty roomy for us average sized people.
3. It did the same job as a Corolla or Camry, but using less than half the fuel, while producing a small fraction of the tailpipe nasties.
4. Acceleration: adequate for any sane person.
5. Torque: V8-style, but from zero revs. It didn’t notice hills.
6. It was very responsive. Put your foot down, it jumps instantly.
7. As mentioned above, the engine is computer controlled, so it can’t be thrashed and has zero appeal to revheads and teenagers. A relatively low risk used car buy.
8. It is mechanically simple. Ditto.
9. The luggage space is great compared to a sedan, but a bit small for a hatchback (because of the batteries taking up a bit of space).
10. It’s main failings result from the crappy suspension. The ride is dreadful and the handling is mediocre, at best.
We replaced it with a Prius C, which is as good or better in nearly every way but slow as a wet weekend.
I’ve got a Gen II Prius (2007) and it might be the best car I’ve ever had. It’s nimble, space utilization is amazing, it sips gas, it’s easy to drive, and it’s really easy to wrench on. I’ve done all maintenance myself, and I’ve not had one problem with the car; so far it has never seen a shop. I’m hoping to keep it that way for awhile.
My only complaint about the car so far is that it has some blind spots and I can’t always sense the curb too well in it. I can live with that.
Love my Spectra Blue 2008 Prius (same gen. as the one in the article).
Bought new off the lot during Cash for Clunkers, when gas was $4.07/gal.
(The clunker was a ’95 Wrangler, leaking like a seive).
Besides oil changes, bulbs & one set of tires, the single item that’s been replaced is the water pump.
But after 10 yrs., one issue remains unresolved: Operation of heat / vent / defroster defies logic.
AC, AM-FM-CD, PS, PB, PW. What more could I ask for?
Ans: A 3.5 mm. plug-in for phone-music or MP3.
Quest: The author spoke positively about the car, yet sold it after a year. Replacement isn’t indicated.
What up?
Take a look at the other COAL’s from this author he seems to have a bit of a roving eye when it comes to cars.
This model is the iconic Prius. When you say Prius, this is the car I think of, not the very first one nor the newer ones with their “emotional” styling. Honestly, I love ugly cars (sayeth the owner of Yugos, Azteks, etc…) but this one just didn’t do it for me.
I guess what really turned me off were the then-incredible governmental incentives on these cars, the most irritating of which was the HOV lane access. While it was wonderful that you could access the HOV lanes with these, I felt it was totally against the purpose of what HOV lanes were encouraging, which was carpooling.
The other thing that drove me nuts at the time was the attitude by Prius (Pious) owners that they were somehow saving the world with these cars. Having grown up in a highly industrialized part of the country, I have some awareness of the amount of energy and materials necessary to produce the least of consumer products. Automobiles are quite resource intensive to produce and this one would no different, no matter the amount of fuel that it used during regular operation.
However, that’s all water under the bridge. Ford and Toyota (let’s not forget that FoMoCo has/had cross-patents with Toyota on the hybrid drive system) proved that hybrids are durable and economical for the consumer. Honda, Nissan, Mazda, GM and Chrysler in the USDM really didn’t have anything remotely competitive. The Germans? Ve haf a turbo-diesel…
Here we are, all these years later. Many manufacturers offer some sort of hybrid drivetrain, whether it’s start/stop with battery assist, mild hybrid (like many Hondas and some GMs), hybrids like the Ford and Toyota versions, EREVs mostly the BMW i3, i7 and the Chevy Volt, and BEVs like the Teslas, Leaf and Bolt. I’m sure I’m forgetting a few as some have come and gone in the last 15 years.
So I find myself considering what to replace my nearly 10 year old Pontiac with, should there be some sort of catastrophe. I think we would still want some sort of car in a similar size and capacity. I have a two car garage with 220V service in it, so I could go with a BEV. I like the many hybrid choices available now and even standard ICE cars have much better fuel mileage and maintenance requirements than 10 years ago.
Who knows? I may own a Toyota hybrid yet.
More thoughts on these particular cars….
During the Great Financial Crisis, a young entrepreneur here in town bought a Prius and started his own “green” taxi service. He managed to make something of a splash in the local TV and newspaper touting his environmentally friendly taxi. See my earlier comment about Prius owners “saving” the earth. But, if there ever was a car meant for this kind of duty, this is it. He lasted for a couple of years that I can remember. I think the fact that he was never able to expand his fleet beyond two cars and the advent of Uber (locally) killed him off.
My brother in law has this generation of Prius, too. I’ve spent some time in it, but not a lot. They don’t hold a lot of interest for me, in fact his Acura Integra was far more entertaining. A while back he mentioned that he couldn’t make into work because the battery died in his car. I said to him that the Acura is getting rather old, you should expect some issues. He replied that his wife drives the Acura, his Prius wouldn’t start because the service battery had died. I laughed at the thought of this, a car with a huge battery that wouldn’t start…
Several years ago, I came out of the local department store to witness a woman pounding on the front fender of her Prius. The passenger headlight was off, but the driver’s side was operational. After a couple of good whacks, it lit up again. I hadn’t seen something like that since we still had our old black and white TV!
You need to access websites dealing with Prius “problems”, I noticed a lot of complaints by owners about the headlights on these cars. In most postings, folks say that 1st one, then the other headlight fails….and they don’t seem to last long after the bulb is replaced.
My sister never mentioned this about any of her Priuses but that could be because they were all traded at less than 60,000 miles.
Brake operation is another “sore spot” reported by several owner’s.
Yes, that is certainly something that I found odd – the car needed a relatively tiny service battery to provide 12 volts to boot the car up when you pushed the start button. No way of using the considerable stored energy in the battery to get everything moving if the 12-volt battery died.
Nice article. In hindsight I am impressed with these, in 2004 I was a battery skeptic too but I was incorrect. Even in cold climates it turned out to be a non issue.
My employer has an office in Baltimore. I’ve been there a few times, traffic seems indeed high performance. Screaming along the highway at 75, instant stop to 0. Then as soon as we can go everyone goes 75 again. Great application for regenerative braking.
Our XW30 Prius MPG shines in stop/go traffic jams and typical boulevard driving. Its advantage diminishes on high-speed Interstates, probably because the regenerative system is less usable.
Reasonably agile but unentertaining on the twisties; not a car for keen drivers because of weight and lack of steering feel.
I’ve had a whole bunch of used vehicles over the past 44 years.
Typically, I’d get something that was 10-15 years-old and drive it for another 10 years or so.
Two or three of these did wind up needing an engine rebuilt or a tranny overhaul.
Not even counting a friend’s bad experience with a used Honda Insight, my point is –
I believe EVERY used 10-15 year-old hybrid is going to need a new battery long before it makes it another 10 years.
And how long can I expect a repaired or rebuilt battery to last?
Even Toyota only warranties their replacement for 3 years.
Happy Motoring, Mark
Well the Insight like other early Honda hybrids does have well documented problems with the batteries. The Toyotas and Fords on the other hand have batteries that have proven to last a long time. However I agree that they probably won’t last 20-25 years.
If you just get a “refurbished” battery, no it probably isn’t going to last another 10-15 years, but there is no reason to expect a unit that has all new cells will not last about as long as the factory battery.
The ONLY reason that Toyota and the other MFGs have that 8yr (or 10yr if originally sold in a state with CA emissions AND CA emissions performance warranty) is that the battery pack is considered an emissions control device and is subject to the EPA’s emissions performance warranty requirements. So it is not surprising that Toyota only gives it the 3yr warranty they wish they could do on the new car.
The author’s experience and BrianC’s comments align with mine, and while many of the others’ reveal a continuing lack of factual knowledge.
Our 2004 has more than 200,000 km and is only now close to needing its first brake job. My local tech tells me the taxi guys (Vancouver was a world leader outside Japan in Prius adoption) routinely top 300,000 km on the original battery. Interestingly, he told me one battery replacement was due to the car not being driven enough. Looked at on a Total Cost Of Ownership basis the car is a winner despite the premium paid for buying an earlier hybrid. It has been a very good car, city or highway, gliding along in comfort and safety. If I want to get sporty, the German roadster comes out of the garage for weekend or vacation fun.
A 2000 Gen 1 Prius that was used as a taxi here was purchased by Toyota after 300,000 km and shipped back to Japan for analysis.
As an engineer, these cars have little to no appeal to me. Generally speaking, hybrids are specifically designed for “appliance drivers” who know very little about how automobiles work, so there is absolutely no technical aspect to the driving experience. If the instrumentation panel included information like battery voltage, current flow in Amps, electric motor temperature, etc it might be a more engaging experience. More exciting still would be the ability to control regenerative dynamic braking independant of friction braking. Having driven a Camry hybrid once, it was just basic, unexciting, frustratingly unresponsive transportation for the masses. The ultimate rental car.
Conventional cars aren’t much better-instrumented these days, and don’t specify measurement units when they do have gauges. Re dynamic braking, the Prius has a B transmission setting for that purpose. Also, it has several driving modes you can play with: EV (very restricted), Eco, and Power. The 600+ pg. manual is unclear about what mode you’re in, or what it does, when all the buttons are off.
I thought the car was interesting from an engineering standpoint simply because of the remarkable amount of work that went into making the driving experience unremarkable. Given the need to blend power from an engine and an electric motor and the need to blend braking from the motor and the brakes, it was interesting to me to see how well Toyota was able to tune the drivetrain to be completely boring. I totally agree that the driving experience was largely unexciting.