(First posted 12/8/2013) Yes, I can admit that I loved our minivan and was saddened when it involuntarily left our lives too soon at too young an age. For many years we had denied that a minivan might be a good idea. Neither of us had grown up in them (although both families had a VW Bus). Then, in 2007, we took a trip to Canada.
It was a driving vacation through Ontario and Quebec with our 4-year-old daughter and infant son where we decided to give a minivan a try. After reserving one in advance, when we arrived at the Toronto Airport Rental Car Counter we were assigned a dirty Chevy Uplander which we rejected on the conventional wisdom that one must always reject the first offering (No Thank You Monty, I want to see what’s behind door number Two!). Second up was a brand new Dodge Caravan. Bingo. The trip turned out great and the minivan did very well. The seed was planted.
A year later we were notified that a third child was on the way and we really started looking at vans. This being the Bay Area meant that the only choices really were the Sienna and the Odyssey, although nowadays I’d find it hard to choose between those as well as the Mopar and Kia product. We were looking for used, as new ones were not in the current budget. The wife told me to go forth and decide what I liked, she did not want to be bothered with the selection even though it would be primarily her car.
Before I left I was sure I would prefer the Odyssey, but after driving both was astounded to note that I preferred the Sienna. Simply said, the seating position was better, the Odyssey felt a bit cramped around my head.
I looked all over and eventually even on eBay where I found one that ticked all the boxes including being local of course. Being offered by Fremont Toyota across the bay, this was a 2005 Sienna XLE with Toyota CPO coverage, only 27,000 miles on the clock and a Buy-It-Now price of around $18,000.
I spoke with the salesman who had listed it and then drove over there to check it out. Although a relatively young example, it did have a few more scuffs inside than I was expecting but nothing that I figured was worse than my kids would inflict on it in short order, so I bought it since the price was more than competitive.
2005 was the second year of the second-generation Sienna. Powered at the time by Toyota’s 3.3 liter 24-valve DOHC V6 with Variable Valve Timing (expanded to a 3.5 in later years) and backed by a 5-speed automatic, this generated a stout 230hp @ 5600rpm with 242 fl-lbs of torque @ 3600rpm to motivate a curb weight of 4300 pounds that was more than adequate for anything that was required of it and could leave many a wanna-be stoplight racer behind.
All Siennas of this generation were built in Princeton, Indiana and were either FWD or AWD, ours being FWD. Toyota still offers AWD, I am surprised Honda never did and that Chrysler gave up on it, I see a lot of the AWD Toyotas here in Colorado now and would figure there is enough of a market for two players.
Siennas were available in various trim levels, ours being the XLE, one step below the Limited. Ours was fairly loaded including leather (a must with kids), 17” alloys, side-curtain airbags, the JBL stereo system, power sliding doors and the piece-de-resistance, the power rear hatch which was a feature that my wife especially came to love. The color was officially called Phantom Gray Pearl, which is kind of a brownish charcoal color, and looked good paired with the Stone (gray) leather inside.
What looked less good is the god-awful orangey fake wood that Toyota thinks makes a minivan look upscale. Uh, no, it kind of clashed, but I will admit it looks much better (but still not very good) paired with the tan/taupe interior. I also think the exterior styling is a bit awkward especially around the front quarters, it’s a bit pudgy looking. The Odyssey looks much more aggressive in this regard.
The tires that were on it when we got it were not very good either, they were Big-O brand Euro-Tour tires that had minimal grip and were noisy to boot. Having learned my lesson with the Murano, I replaced them with a set of better tires, but cannot recall what exactly they were. It did help tremendously in both aspects so was money well spent.
This vehicle obviously became the family car, being used every day and for every trip, and really came into its own when grandparents came to visit. Loading everyone into one vehicle for dinner out or a trip to the aquarium is what these things excel at, far better than most 3-row SUVs and so easy to load kids into with car seats and/or having to latch someone’s belts/harnesses.
While both the Sienna and the Odyssey of the day had an optional 8th seat that fits between the two seats in the middle row (ours did not have it), and both are able to not use it and then decide if you want the seats right next to each other leaving a walkway on the right (door) side or the walkway in the middle, only the Sienna let you actually slide the seat laterally across positions. In the Odyssey you have to take the seat out and reinstall it again in the center. Those seats are heavy, after removing them a few times I now totally understand the appeal of Chrysler’s Stow’N’Go.
The summer after our third child, Riley, was born, we decided to go on a real road-trip. However, having traveled with the three kids on shorter trips before, we did it a bit different than you might expect. My mother flew out and took our daughter back with her to Colorado for a week. Then four days later I set off in the van. Alone. Three days after I left, my wife was planning on flying out with the two boys, then Piper and I would pick them up and we would generally drive back towards California on the theory that if the kids drove us (OK, me) nuts we’d just drive home faster instead of cutting a round trip short…
Anyway, so I took off alone in the van. The first day I made it all the way into Utah and was pleasantly surprised to note that the Bonneville Speed Week on the salt flats was underway. I turned off and became a spectator for a while which was fascinating.
I noticed they were only using one lane of the salt and the way I had happened to have parked the van was right by the start line of the unused lane which is where these pictures were taken.
She wants to run!
I spoke with some of the people there and it turned out that the salt in the unused lane on the right was apparently slower than on the salt on the left. Obviously moisture content changes the consistency of the surface, so they elected to mainly run on the faster side that day.
The rear wheel was about a foot wide. No stand needed, it would rest upright.
After watching some cars and motorcycles start their runs I decided to drive to the far end of the track, which involved driving a long loop around and then on the salt for several miles until the real pit and camp areas came into view.
I learned later that this streamliner set a record that day
Walking around there was fascinating, such ingenuity and creativity on display. I wish I had more pictures of that Mercedes wagon below, it was stunning (and their tow/push-car).
The push car was just as interesting as the racer.
Afterwards driving back towards the interstate I had the van up to about 80mph on the salt. It is spooky driving on the salt as it is such a large featureless plain that one has no sense of distance or speed. On a road you can see the side of the road go by to gauge your speed, not so on the salt. A very interesting phenomenon.
I reached Golden, CO the second day and met up with my daughter again. After spending the night, we drove up to Rapid City, SD to pick up the rest of the family as that was their destination airport.
After doing so, we spent a couple of days in the Mt. Rushmore (The Big Faces, Daddy!) area, then headed west to Devil’s Tower (Close Encounters…), which is just as awe-inspiring as Mt. Rushmore but in a totally different way. Both sights are must-see’s if the opportunity ever presents itself to you, dear reader.
Great monument, excellent walking tour, you get quite close. Highly recommended.
After that we headed on to Cody, Wyoming, one of the gateways to Yellowstone, after which we decided to go up to Idaho and take in the area around Boise. Then it was back towards home again.
Devil’s Tower. We did not see Richard Dreyfuss.
I must say, our travel strategy did work out well, with an infant, a 2-year-old and a 6-year-old it was good to know that we were headed towards rather than away from home when the inevitable irritations set in, although I will agree that everyone was fairly well behaved even if some of the distances were rather vast without much scenery at times.
The author at work.
The van did great. It was a stellar interstate cruiser and with the larger wheel/tire option did very well around turns as well, not nearly as much floating and bobbing as a large SUV would have had and much better road manners overall.
Gas mileage was in the high teens, largely as I was flogging it fairly mercilessly at times, which brings me to one of the few pet peeves I had with this car.
Just like the Land Cruiser we had, this one also asked for premium gasoline. Why? I cannot fathom a good reason for asking owners to spend extra at the pump. Just detune the engines a bit to let them run well on regular. I know I could just use regular and the engine would compensate but then I’d feel as if I was not getting the power I had paid for. It’s annoying though as I equate premium fuel with a performance engine, not anything installed in an SUV or Minivan.
Are we there yet?
We obviously also used the van every time we made the slog down to Orange County to visit the in-laws, and being a van this was also great for trips to IKEA and for my home remodeling projects. It is JUST possible to fit 4×8 sheets of drywall in the back and close the hatch if you take out the center seats and move the front seats all the way forward.
When you are 6’1” like I am this leaves you in a somewhat precarious driving position with the seat all the way forward hoping that the airbag does not go off but it’s doable for a couple of miles home from Home Depot if you like living on the edge (of the seat).
When we took it to our local independent Toyota mechanic for a routine service he noted that one of the rear shocks had blown recently, most likely a result of me jamming an entire flat-packed IKEA kitchen in the back and then crossing the San Mateo Bridge to get it back home. The van was quite overloaded and hitting the bump stops over larger undulations in the road. Replacing the shocks with a set of KYB’s made it ride smoother and corner better than it had before so that worked out well in the end.
At this point we had owned the van for about 2.5 years and had put about 40,000 more miles on it. We had made the decision to uproot our lives and move to Colorado and start over from scratch. California seemed stuck in a budget quagmire, the local schools were constantly in trouble financially, and after twenty years my chosen career was not anything I wanted to continue with any longer. As we were getting the house ready for sale over a period of a few months (early in 2010), we did a lot of work to it.
A few episodes ago I mentioned some garbage cans in a picture that I said would play a part at a later date. Well, we had a very large double-decker deck rebuilt and changed some landscaping at the same time. As a result the garbage cans were temporarily moved from the side of the house under a cantilevered section to a spot between the Sienna and the wooden fence. The painter we hired to stain the deck started his work and at the end of the first day of this large project tossed the rags into the trash can. In the middle of the night my wife awoke to a noise and sent me to investigate.
Upon doing so, I saw that our 60-foot pine tree was fully engulfed in flame along with the fence and the front part of the van and the conflagration was threatening the deck and house itself. I hollered back to my wife to call 911 and get everyone and the dog out the back which she did while I turned on a hose from the upper deck and tried to put out what I could. The fire department showed up soon after and doused everything but could not get the van to stop burning until they used their large saw to literally cut the hood in half and also tried spraying the inside dash area where smoke was billowing out.
The rags loaded with stain had spontaneously combusted and started burning inside the plastic garbage cans, melting them and then the flames jumped to the fence on one side and the van tire on the other side. As bad as it was, thank goodness the trash cans had not been next to the house itself under the cantilevered section, it could/would have been much worse.
Car-B-Que
The van was a sad sight the next morning. The front half was a charred mess and the sliding doors and power hatch were not working, even manually, anymore, I suppose something electrical had remained in the locked position. I salvaged what I could and the insurance company had it dragged down the driveway via a winch onto a flatbed a couple of days later.
Note the melted large wheeled garbage can where the fire started
The only good thing that came of it was the adjuster that came out and looked at it asked me if it was “loaded” after he saw it had leather to which I said yes and he then left. A few days later we were offered a check for several thousand more than we paid for it a few years earlier, it appeared the adjuster had just checked ALL of the options boxes including Navigation and on-board DVD players and Sienna values had gone up since we bought it. We took the check and ran to the bank.
Genuine “smoked” headlight lens
It’s too bad minivans are not considered “cool”. The combination of utility, usability, and convenience is pretty much unmatched by anything else. At the end of the day what matters is what works best, for folks with more than two kids to discount a minivan just because of image is asinine although I see it all the time (we did it too). Often it seems people don’t learn that lesson until after the kids are so old that it no longer makes a difference. Anyway, I loved this van and have no shame!
I have to come out of the closet as a minivan lover. Although when raising our kids, my wife was adamant we would not have a minivan (of our own) we had access to one of the original Chrysler minivans, as my in-laws had one as a third car and were very liberal about us “borrowing” the van. I grew to love that little beast.
In the early 2000’s we ended up getting a Pontiac Aztek which was as close as we got close to getting a van.The Azteks have a lot of short wheelbase van goodness, but without the truly functional hatchback and the added burden of regular doors in the back, not sliders. During that time, though, many of our friends had minivans mostly the Chrysler versions. (Hey, I live in Michigan, what else am I going to see?) I, too have a deep respect for the overall capabilities of those cars in particular. I rented a new Grand Caravan to haul relatives to/from the airport when my daughter graduated high school a couple of years ago. It was really a rather good drive and I was impressed with how Chrysler continues to evolve the species.
Just yesterday, I was with a friend helping her get some things together for a Christmas party and she arrived in her Odyssey. It’s funny, no matter who’s minivan I get in, I immediately feel at home. I wonder if the proportions and the seating position just hit that sweet spot for a six foot tall guy like me…
I just recently purchased another Aztek, as I could not find anything else my wife would like to drive, that wasn’t a van shape. But eventually, I will need to find another car for myself. I’m waiting for the Pentastar equipped Mopar vans to get a little older and the pricing a little further down, and I think I would pounce on one.
Or a Camaro.
I know, what kind of decision is that?
(I should note, my wife isn’t that demanding or tough to live with. She really doesn’t like mommy mobiles…)
Geo – Maybe we should come up with a little sticker for the back of our cars denoting our Minivan love. We can’t use the rainbow flag sticker – that one has already been claimed by a different demographic 🙂 Maybe a Jolly Roger or something instead…
I never understood why some moms try to conceal the fact that they are moms. Little do they know, large SUVs are now seen more as mommy mobiles than minivans. The ironic thing is that society in general has respect for people who fulfill their duties as responsible parents, and little respect for those who don’t. Why try to hide something you shouldn’t be ashamed of in the first place?
+1 Well said.
I’ll second that.
I see a late model Tahoe or Expedition rolling around the ‘burbs and my 1st thought is that its an insecure ego chariot for a woman who would be better off with a minivan.
My cousin who has kids is on his 2nd Mopar Minivan now, I was quite impressed with this 2012 when I got to ride in it last year.
No surprise they don’t want a minivan… who wants to look like a soccer mom? Of course, all the soccer moms now drive CUV’s and SUV’s!
A minivan veteran family here, five in a row starting with a Villager, followed by a Windstar and three Odysseys. With four (now grown and away) kids and a retriever or two… and with apologies to the old Porsche ads… “Nothing Comes Close.”
Confession: having said all that, and now residing in the CO mountains, we too have joined the AWD/4WD brigade of SUV’s and CUV’s. We just have a different set of needs now.
I owned a 1st-gen Sienna; dreadful. I rented a 3rd-gen for a family trip and except for being surprisingly large, it was a powerful, refined, and capable family hauler. Great vehicle.
The decline of minivan love in the US is frustrating. In nearly all ways, they’re more practical than any SUV. Unfortunately, that’s likely their downfall, as well. Anyone driving a minivan is seen as way too practical, dull, and boring. But their usefulness just can’t be beaten.
On a side note, the latest Sienna is yet another example where Toyota continues to drop the ball, resting their laurels entirely on a past reputation for reliability. A case in point is the photo of the cargo area with the rear seats folded/removed. In the photo, the load floor is completely flat. Well, in the current generation Sienna, this is no longer the case. Toyota now has fore/aft sliding second row seats, but cheaped-out on the engineering by not integrating the sliding mechanisms into the seats. This means that when the seats are removed, the sliding mechanisms remain firmly bolted to the floor (they cannot be easily removed), so the load floor, with the seats removed, is no longer completely flat for loading. Unforgivable, and easy to understand why the Odyssey is eating the Sienna’s lunch in sales these days. The Odyssey, with standard equipment like a rear-view camera and privacy glass on even their lowliest models (and a flat load floor with the seat removed/folded), is a much better value.
I’ve often thought that one side effect of minivans selling to practical-minded people while big SUVs/crossovers go to the more fashion-oriented is that people who do buy minivans tend to keep them longer and see them as a one-time purchase rather than upgrading regularly to stay in style.
There’s also the matter of timing and being a victim of their own success in the ’80s/90s – they were so red-hot when Boomers were raising families and Millennials were those kids, that by the time the manufacturers had to put serious thought into marketing them as “lifestyle” rather than lifestage vehicles it was too late, the suburban soccer-mom image was set in stone.
Interesting about the new Sienna’s floor. I’ve driven one that I rented last year but didn’t have need to remove the seats but that would be an issue. Looking around my current neighborhood we have lots of Odyssey’s and Sienna’s, most of them are bought new. Since the current versions were released, I note many more new Odyssey’s than new Sienna’s – Most of the new Sienna’s that are here are AWD, but as for FWD, the new Odyssey seems to be the current favorite. I guess the styling has a little more pizzazz to it. But yes, we also have plenty of tiny ladies with multiple kids who have a massive top of the line SUV and are always clambering on the running boards in order to strap their kids in….
I like car camping on the vast, untrammeled fed lands out West. When I see mini vans I think: if I take all the seats out, and cut a hole in the roof for a small wood burning stove made out of thick folded tin set on bricks…I can guerrilla camp (sleep for free) just about any where. Being homeless, directionless, and equipped with ragged copies of “On The Road”, “Blue Highways”, and “Travels with Charlie” allowed me plenty of solitude to rip open Shamanistic potentials…where vans moved from transportation to “freedom abode” category.
Oh, the hu-vanity!
Such an inglorious end to such a fine, capable vehicle. 🙁
We bought a new ’92 Grand Caravan when we were expecting our third. In typical Niedermeyer fashion, I abused that thing mercilessly for 15 years and almost 200k miles. It was “Stephanie’s car” for the first 8 years, then it became “mine”, which was rather convenient during my house renovation phase, as it would swallow quite a load. Obviously, it wasn’t exactly fun to drive, but it was highly practical, and I still miss it at times. It’s roomy and upright front seating position directly influenced my decision to replace it with my Xb.
I’m overdue to do an expanded Autobiography chapter on it, as the one I wrote some years ago at the other site was rather cramped by the old 800 word rule.
I bought a ’92 Plymouth Voyager some time around ’03. It was one of the rare ones, with a 2.5L I-4 and a 5-speed manual trans. Yes, it was a tinny box, but it got close to 30mpg and did an adequate job of everything I asked of it.
Then all the manufacturers got the idea that nobody wanted a stick shift minivan, and I was out of the game. And don’t tell me the Mazda5 is a minivan; you can’t remove all the seats and have a flat floor. It’s a station wagon with sliding doors.
Nothing like a minivan for long road trips with kids. We made several trips from Seattle to Bend in our Mercury Villager. With tinted windows and A/C in the back, even the wayback was mostly habitable in the high desert summers.
When the Villager died, I picked up a used Kia Sedona. Great rig that earned its bones hauling the family and puppy to Bozeman and back.
I’ve switched to motorcycles now that 2/3 kids are gone. Still love minivans though.
That sucks about your Minivan, but thank goodness the fire was not as bad as it could have been. So why did your Sienna have Commercial Vehicle Plates instead of regular Passenger Vehicle Plates?
I have owned two Minivans, a 95 Voyager Family Package which weighed about 3,300 Lbs with the 142 HP 3.0 Litre V6 and now an 03 Caravan SE which weighs 3,700 Lbs, but has the 150 HP 2.4 Litre Inline 4. I doubt either of those actually put those horsepower rating on the ground so what I currently drive is the modern version of a Kombie complete with a lack of all power options including no Cruise Control. I wish the mileage would climb out of the teens, but that will not happen with the mixed mainly city driving I am doing, but at least it does not require Premium Fuel. I want my next vehicle to be a Taurus X, that should have more get up and go.
The plates came with the van when we bought it, we did eventually exchange the plates for regular passenger plates. In CA as long as your car has a tailgate (pickup, station wagon, van but NOT a sedan) you can get commercial plates, you pay based on vehicle weight. With the scuffs that were present in the van when we got it, I think it was a sales guy’s rig more than a family car (or maybe both as the mileage when we got it was not abnormally high for the year). Commercial plates are really nice to have if you need to go into San Francisco for example where parking is tough as you can stop in any yellow zone etc.
Having never had them before after a while I realized that I’d save money by switching to standard plates although we had occasionally used the plates to stop at Starbucks etc. in the mornings and get prime parking…
This article insipred me to buy an 04 Sienna LE with eight passenger seating last May. It has been a good vehicle and right now it serves as a backup vehicle with the occasional highway jaunt.
Wow, I’m impressed to hear that, Teddy! And glad that it appears to be doing well for you, these thing are just born for long highway trips and so useful for hauling stuff locally.
Thank you for the compliment and I agree with you there since the Sienna is good for camping trips. The Sienna is more comfortable, reliable, and safer than the 02 Saturn SL2, and 93 Toyota Camry we usually drive so you know which vehicle we drive for road trips.
As usual, I’ve enjoyed reading one of your car of a lifetime pieces. As you may know, I am an open minivan lover. The fact that no one immediately close to me has never owned one is probably part of the appeal.
I agree that between the mid-00s Odyssey and Sienna, the Odyssey was better looking. For some reason the Sienna always looked a little too tall and narrow, while the Odyssey had a better front-end and dare I say sportier. I’ve never ridden in an Odyssey, but I did ride shotgun in a light blue Sienna XLE of this generation and I was very impressed.
Very comfortable, and yes an excellent front seating position. My favorite feature was the hidden storage compartment in the front door armrests. That orange-colored wood trim was the same used in my ’04 Highlander. It could’ve been the aluminum trim surrounding it or maybe just the different color of my leather, but it didn’t look as bad in the Highlander. I remember that same steering wheel and its controls very well.
Great piece, thanks for sharing!
First kid got us to trade in the Mustang on a 5 speed Cherokee. 2nd kid 20 months later justified a Plymouth Grand Voyager, so I took over the Jeep, but we couldn’t part with the Miata… But after an impatient clown sideswiped the family (he went around a bus that was waiting for my wife to parallel park), she (the Voyager) started seeming old. (maybe it was the 1998 green paint, or the fear of transmission failure.) So a couple years after 3rd kid we got an Odyssey.
It took us on a 7000 mile, um Odyssey, across the US and back. Grand Teton (river raft trip), Yellowstone (buffalo are big!), across to Rushmore (I second Jim’s recommendation), to Niagara falls (Canada’s Vegas), and down to see family near NY. After catching a game in the last year of old Yankee Stadium, on to Philly, the Liberty Bell (and a cheese steak and hoagie of course), the St Louis arch, route 66, Carlsbad Caverns, White Sands, and Tucson and home to San Diego. The perfect vehicle for the trip with an8, 10, and 11-year old. I was really afraid they’d get too immersed in the dvd player and miss it all, but I was pleasantly surprised (helped by a good audiobook – Mark Twain is classic).
Unfortunately after one more road trip to the Grand Canyon, Mrs C decided it was indeed too mommyish, and she wanted something with better mileage. (Around town even a Tahoe would get better mileage, at least with the AC on. 13 wasn’t uncommon. ) So it became a CRV. But I still wish we had it when I take boys out Scouting.
Terrible ending to a terrific story. Reminds me of when I returned to Oregon from Colorado three years ago. I drove my parent’s 2000 Sienna, loaded with my music and camping gear. Camped at Blue Mesa Reservoir in southern Colorado for two nights, and then into Utah and up to Yellowstone. Spent the final two days at Grand Coulee Damn in Washington. The van was fantastic in all respects. Handling, acceleration, low 20’s mpg, even cruising for hours at 80+. It has since been given to my brother and his wife and four kids after their Windstar went through another tranny.
“Hi, I’m Ed, and I love minivans.”
(Reply) “Hi, Ed.”
The minivan stigma amazes me. What better badge could you wear than parent? A Gen 2 Nissan Quest was my runner up when I bought my Trooper; always felt the Quest and Villager were perfectly sized. Sadly no one is making that size anymore.
My brother is at the end of the ride with their ’03 Grand Caravan. That thing is an amazing tool – holds 8 in a pinch. He keeps insisting they’re getting a crossover, and I keep insisting they’ll be sorry (2 kids in sports with lots of gear).
Two companies that don’t offer minivans and should are Volvo and Subaru. And VW should of had a minivan model of their bus long ago.
If I was in the market for a minivan, I’d find one of the late run VW Routan’s still out there.
Another minivan fan here. They are so versatile that it amazes me how little love they get. I have not regretted the purchase of our Sedona one bit. Even though our youngest (of 3) kids is a high school senior, the cargo capacity is amazing. Also, Mrs. JPC’s favorite part is that it is the perfect height for easy in and out – not too high like so many SUVs and not too low like so many sedans.
The only disadvantage that I can see is that as they age, these very heavy fwd vehicles tend to need more expensive driveline repairs than some of the SUVs. The efficient use of space costs the owner of older models because mechanical components are packed together so tightly that service is difficult.
I will confess that I have never come under the spell of the 2nd generation Odyssey. I have been in and around more than one. If they were as mechanically stout as other Hondas, I could forgive the floppy structure. But with their self-destructo ™ transmissions, they are not. The Toyota of that era seems to be the one that has aged better. Even the newest Honda does not feel as structurally solid as my much cheaper Sedona.
Maybe the car marketeers need to come up with a new name for minivans. I mean, look what “crossover” did for station wagons.
Yep. That’s right. Your crossover is really a station wagon, buddy. Ah hah hah hah ha ha!
My dad started getting used minivans in the mid-1990s. It was a great way to transport his show Welsh Terriers. Pop, being a DIY type, looked at it as big covered pickup, too; because of that, he never went back to getting a truck. During my growing up days, the closest thing to a minivan was his humongous 1948 Plymouth in 1965. I thought pop never had any car fashion sense–getting a 1961 Falcon in 1969 as his car? Maintenance was never a priority on his Cutlass. But I really liked his 1975 Toyota HiLux SR5, the minivan’s predecessor as the 3rd car. That sold me on the virtue of trucks. My second vehicle was a 1982 SR5 longbed with a camper top. I had it 14 years, before the rust killed it in 1998.
Over the years Pop would try to convert me to the virtues of the minivan as a transporter of goods. (My stepmom’s thoughts said loudly: Waaaarrrrrrdd! He’s a single guy!!), and being a single guy (not really by choice), I resisted. Eventually in 1999 I borrowed his 1978 Datsun 810 for two years, then got my 2001 Nissan Frontier (my only new car to date) to replace my since departed SR5 (I still have it, regular cab, now at 270K miles). Meanwhile pop wore out the Caravan, then got the 2002 Chrysler Town & Country in 2006. Looking at his meticulous records (he got better over the decades), I can see why Mopar was being passed around like a burning piece of coal in your bare hands.
When pop decided to get a new minivan for the first time, a 2013 Honda Odyssey (which he would slam over its instrument panel and all the automatic features), he put his used 2002 Town & Country up for sale. Again he offered it to me, extolling the virtues of the minivan. At the time I just had one vehicle, my truck, but now I learned the hard way (‘natch’) that one cannot pull a 5×8 single axle trailer with a Nissan 5 speed and not suffer the consequences: 5 trailers pulled, three transmissions replaced. Faced with the possible loss of my truck, having a day job, and little enthusiasm for researching a vehicle (which would take me 2 weeks minimum), I called pop and with a family discount, got the minivan, 110K miles, for $3K. The first vehicle I ever had with automatic transmission. The license plate I put on it was “0 BLING” (zero bling). Justification? How low can I go in prestige. I used its space like a huge trunk. I managed to save my truck with a used transmission, installed, for $2000, so I kept them both (other than the transmission and trailer issue, the Frontier has been mostly maintenance-free over the years). The T&C became a hole to pour money in, but a year later I was in a high speed multivehicle crash on I-85 after a rain at night outside Atlanta. With both sides crushed in, I crawled out a broken window because there was no inside release to the back hatch, and walked away.
I still am not beholden to minivans as a personal vehicle, but I don’t ridicule them anymore.
With child #1, a Volvo GL Wagon. With child #2, an Astro AWD. With child #3, the first of six Suburbans. I don’t mind minivans at all, but when the criterion comes down to 7 passengers and a full compliment of luggage/sportsgear/camping equipment, not to mention two big dogs… a big SUV is still hard to beat. X2 if a few of the kids ski.
Now that the kids are gone and we’re down to one big dog, the idea of a Sienna AWD is starting to look pretty darned attractive, especially when viewed through the lens of current SUV/CUV prices.
My wife and I have become admitted minivan lovers. When we first got married, we had a 2 door Explorer that was traded for a 4 door Explorer. After our child was born, and her mother moved in with us, the die was cast, we needed a minivan. I let her get it because she wanted it, but I was not really on board. Boy was I wrong. It was much more comfortable, roomy and versatile. I hauled a 9 ft couch in it, try that in an Explorer. At 120k miles, this Town and Country has been much better than I thought it would be. It’s a little rusty and some of the minor stuff doesn’t work as well as it did, but it still runs. Keep your fingers crossed for me…
I love minivans, and I don’t even have kids. These vehicles as tremendously versatile for people like me who do alot of Ikea and Home Depot runs; much roomier than crossovers and much more comfortable than pickup trucks with a cap on them (capless pickups confound me; anything I put in them would likely get either wet, snowed on, or stolen where I live). The ability to walk back and forth between the driver’s seat and the cargo area is also quite useful. And sliding doors that open up to large square openings are terrifically useful for unloading cargo. Plus, while I don’t have kids, I do have friends, and nothing beats a minivan for a road trip (except maybe one of the new high-end full-size converted vans, but they’re both out of my budget and poorly suited for everything except road trips.
And the only time I hear about minivan “stigma” is online and in magazines. Everyone I know who owns one loves it and doesn’t feel stigmatized. Soccer parents? They moved on to 3-row crossovers years ago. I’ve also noticed its mostly men who drive these nowadays; women seem to insist on crossovers now.
My sister-in-law bought a 2004 Sienna Limited AWD, gold with beige leather inside, which I highly recommended; it was the only minivan she considered since she insisted on AWD. I drove it and rode in it frequently too. What a terrific van – the same traction you get with a crossover but loads more room in it. Even with all three rows of seats in use there was decent cargo space, and folding even the 40% section of the 3rd row increased luggage space dramatically. There were all sorts of seating configurations possible, including the folding front passenger seat shown here, plus fold-and-flip second row buckets which, while not as handy as Chrysler’s stow-n-go, still added about 16″ of floor length without removing the seats. I found the interior Lexus-elegant and had no issue with the appearance of the woodgrain (later model years of this generation had lighter, even more orangish woodgrain that I didn’t care for, but I’d happily put up with for the larger yet more economical 3.5L engine and other upgrades). AWD Siennas have driveshafts that slice through the area where the spare tire is stored in FWD models, so they are fitted with run-flats and a softer suspension to accommodate them. That is still the case with new Siennas.
The center 2nd row seat for three-abreast seating was only available in lower-end CE and LE FWD models, although I think it would fit into an XLE or Limited if you didn’t mind cloth upholstery on the extra seat. Also specific to the two lower priced models was a flip-away console between the front bucket seats that when folded up offered some storage space and four cup holders. Folded down it allowed you to walk between the first and second rows. Honda offered a similar console on the Odyssey and also the second-generation CR-V. XLE and Limited Siennas got an entirely different center console, a big armrest that opened up into a big compartment, again with several cupholders. This prevented walking between the first and second rows. Unless, that is, you removed it which was easy to do. The same console would fit between the second row bucket seats if they were arranged with a center corridor rather than passenger side. You could also order a second console so the 1st and 2nd rows could both have one. Toyota even supplied a small double cup holder to insert between the front row seats for when the console was removed; I’d venture that most owners have lost these by now since most just kept the console between the front row seats, the way it was delivered.
I hear the floor pan is different between the 7 and 8 passenger version with even the in-floor seat clips being different. That is why I bought an 8 passenger 04 Sienna.
How’d I miss this one previously? A fine love song to the minivan, although it ends on a sad note. My brother and his many children quite like their Sienna, and it has been very reliable.
Too bad CC didn’t exist in 2007, you could have come for a visit on your trip to Canada. Also I’m quite envious of your side trip to Bonneville, the only time I’ve ever been to the flats was in the winter when it’s all under water.
And as always I’m amazed at the number of vehicles you’ve owned in your life. Bravo.
For space efficiency, minivans can’t be beat. The only bad thing about minivans in the US is that they now only come in full-size, which isn’t the worst thing in flyover country, but can be too much vehicle for urban areas. When you see someone driving a compact or midsize CUV, they aren’t necessarily driving it out of denial, but often because the “mini” van is oversized.
The only true “minivan in denial” vehicles are full-size CUVs: Chevy Traverse, Buick Enclave, and Ford Flex, and the older GMC Acadia and Saturn Relay.
We still have ours…a 2005 CE (the lowest trim level). 246,000 miles on a Sienna bought new and still running like a tank. 21 mpg highway even with all those miles, and on regular unleaded, to boot. It’s the best vehicle I’ve ever owned. All it does is run and run some more. It will be with us until it dies.
Here’s what rocks about the Sienna. I had the 2006 twin to the writer’s. We sold it at 180,000 miles and it was still tight, rattle free, handled the Sonoma County wild roads, only slightly less well than our BMW all the way. Further, the ’06 and our newer ’12 Sienna has one feature you’ll love, if you love driving… gated shifting. This is mandatory for real drivers and it’s part of what I love of the Toyota. Odd-oddessy and the Pacifica won’t give you that.
The value of a van is that it truly IS a everthing car. We never bought it for the iconic family uses. We dug the Lexus-like inside, that it hauls plywood/concrete bags/valuable antiques, yet it also makes for a dang fun “romantic getaway” with the seats out, the moonroof open and… you figure out the rest 😉