If you have been following my series, you know that of the many COALs I have written about, the most numerous and best were the full sized GM sedans and wagons; the B bodies. I have been driving for 26 years and have owned B-bodies on and off for close to half that time. In their heyday, they were ubiquitous because of their reliability, competence, versatility, economy, comfort and performance. Everyone including families, cab drivers, captains of industry and police offices relied on them. They were always ready to complete yeoman’s tasks with minimal fuss and maximum reliability.
Chevy used a particular nomenclature to differentiate the level of equipment and luxury of its flagship sedans. The Biscayne was the lowest-priced and least-equipped model; the Bel Air was the midrange model; and the Impala, and later Caprice, represented the top of the line.
I submit that the Honda Accord now fills a role similar to the legendary large GM B body sedans of the past. This post is so titled because I see the Accord as a sort of demonstration of of why so many people bought B-bodies. Indeed, I liken the Accord buyers of today to the Chevy buyers of yore; families looking for reliable, cost effective transportation; on the other hand, Acuras remind me of Buicks or Oldsmobiles: more luxurious and refined than the Chevy, but with the same underlying goodness and offeering dependable, reliable motoring.
I find it interesting that the Accord started off as a compact car for the yuppies of the era and has evolved into a daily workhorse for families and commuters. How would people have reacted in 1976 if they were told that someday, the Accord would replace the Bel Air, LTD and Newport as the go-to family sedan?
My first Accord, the 7th generation 2005 model mentioned in last week’s COAL, was an experiment–apparently a very successful one, since I put 40,000 trouble-free miles on it the first year I owned it.
Hence, it was replaced with an eighth-generation 2010 Honda Accord LX in Polished Metal Metallic: my first brand new car. Often derided, the eighth-generation Accords (2008-2012) were the largest Accords to date and were classified as full-size cars. I remember when I first test drove it that I immediately took a liking to its large interior…it was good to be back in a big car. The LX trim level was the base level and for 2010, in terms of mission, cost, and equipment, it was definitely akin to an old fashioned Biscayne. The interior, while roomy, was definitely decontented. Gone were the classy flourishes I’d gotten used to in my last Accord, which was also a base-level LX. Gone were lighted power window switches, extra ambient lighting, console tray, lighted glove box and engine trimming.
Despite its austere level of equipment, I was impressed with it as a whole. As I said, the interior was very roomy and its drivetrain smooth and responsive. It came with the base engine, a VTEC DOHC 2.4 liter inline 4 with 177 HP, which was more HP than in my last Accord. It also came equipped with a very smooth five speed automatic. There is a bit of disagreement on this, but I found it faster and smoother than its predecessor. It also came standard with traction control and Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA)
I took delivery of it the week before Christmas 2009. Because of the holidays, I put 744 miles on it in my first week of ownership. We traveled down to Maryland for Christmas, and this is where it really impressed me. I loved the stereo. This was the first time I had a factory stereo with an auxiliary jack for my MP3 player. Plus, the stereo played MP3 discs and had steering-wheel stereo controls. The leg room and elbow room were perfect for a long drive, especially with the kids aboard. I felt like I was back in my Caprice.
No wood trim on my car
Our two small kids, their luggage, plus their Christmas presents (which included a small bicycle) ALL fit in this larger Accord. Initially, we were worried that all the stuff would not fit and we would have to leave a few items behind, but everything fit nicely.
I was surprised how much snow came down in the Baltimore-Washington DC metro area. It looked like upstate NY. Anyway, the Accord with its Vehicle Stability Assist and Traction Control did better than my brother-in-law’s CRV, which ended up stuck in his driveway, as well as his neighbor’s Suburban which was stuck in the middle of the street! I was very apprehensive, but the Accord managed to get through their unplowed street with no issues whatsoever! It may be an illusion, but it also seemed that my new Accord had more ground clearance than my previous one since the bumpers seemed to line up more with my brother in law’s CRV, which may have helped in the snow. On stock tires, my 2005 Accord was mediocre in the snow. I felt much more confident in the 2010 and its stock Dunlops although getting out of a parking spot after an overnight snow was still an issue when we got over 4-5 inches of snow.
I was actually quite happy with this car as my daily driver and our family road trip car. Gas mileage was very good. One summer, we drove from Central New Jersey to Bar Harbor, Maine (550 miles) without refueling. Only two things about the car really annoyed me. The first was that road noise at highway speed was very noticeable. I have read that this is a common Honda complaint. The second issue I had was that the stock headlights were dim and inadequate at night, particularly in winter when I had a few close calls due to visibility. I rectified this by installing HID headlights, which were a huge improvement over the stock units. There was one problem. Somehow, this caused the TPMS light to come on as soon as the HIDs were on for a half hour or longer. I’m told that an upgraded headlight wiring harness would solve this but I didn’t bother.
I had a few mishaps with the car, all occurring during the winter. The first one happened when I’d had the car for less than a month. A large icicle fell from our roof overhang, impacting and denting the top of the right fender. A few years later, in a freak late October snowstorm, the rear fender was clipped by an inexperienced snow plow driver. Thankfully, we were able to repair the body damage issues at little to no cost.
I never had any mechanical problems with the car in almost four years of ownership. Major maintenance items came down to rear brake pads and transmission fluid.
When the car was approaching 100,000 miles, I was contacted by my local Honda dealer about upgrading to the new ninth-generation Accord. How could I say no?
If the 2010 Accord LX was a Biscayne, its replacement, a 2013 Accord LX, was a Bel Air. When the 2008-2012 eighth-generation Accord was released, the word was that Honda was slipping. The car’s larger dimensions were criticized as ungainly and bulbous. In my opinion, the criticism to the car’s look was similar to the criticism given to the 1991 Caprice. In addition, the low-tech decontented interiors were also criticized, especially in light of the well-equipped cars from Hyundai and Kia. Honda responded with the current ninth-generation Accord.
For roughly what I paid for my 2010 Accord, my 2013 model in Basque Red Pearl II was indeed an upgrade. Even though it was a base model LX, it came with a backup camera, Bluetooth, Pandora radio integration, extra ambient lighting, USB port, traction control, CVT transmission with sport and economy modes, alloy wheels, external temperature display, fuel economy computer and dual-zone automatic climate control. All standard. Along with the CVT, the DOHC base four cylinder now had 185 HP and 181 lb./ft. of torque. Honda had indeed stepped up their game. The level of technology on this car is light years ahead of anything I have ever owned…and it all works reliably! Just to be sure, the dealer threw in a 120,000 mile extended warranty and free oil changes for the next three years. I find the backup camera most useful. Accords have short and thus hard-to-see rear decklids, so backing in was always a pain since I couldn’t see where the trunk ended. The backup camera has completely solved this problem.
I have to say I love this car. I drive 120 miles a day; the car is not only comfortable, but when driven gingerly on the highway with no traffic, manages 36-40 MPG. Shift the CVT into sport mode and it pulls almost as strongly as my 9C1 did. The car is slightly smaller than the previous generation but I don’t mind since it is better equipped, faster, more fuel efficient and more nimble. Plus, the trunk is actually larger than the old car. I have owned it a little less than two years and have put about 60,000 trouble-free miles on it. This winter has been brutal in New Jersey. Sub zero temperatures and wind chills, piles of snow, and icy roads have been the norm around here lately. I have come to regard my Accord as excellent in the snow. I’m not sure if it’s the weight ratio, the stock Continental tires, or the traction control, but I’ve not gotten stuck once this winter. I’ve had issues with my last two Accords when getting out of a parking spot after an overnight snow storm. This has not been an issue at all with my current Accord. In fact, we just got eight inches of snow and there was no need to dig out to provide traction or ground clearance go to work in the morning, I just put the car in gear, backed up, and left. I dare say that thus far, I do not miss the All Wheel drive traction of my Subaru.
I ended up trading in my last two Accords at about 100,000 miles even though there was really no reason to do so. I think this Accord will be different because I will not be trading it in early. It is just about perfect for me. It is comfortable, sporty, economical, very well equipped and fun to drive. This is easily the best car I have ever owned. As Jim Klein put it at the end of his COAL series…. “My daily driver is a keeper.”
Post Script: 2014 Honda Civic
My wife’s 2002 Subaru Forester featured last week served us for over five years and at 145,000 miles needed about $2,000 worth of work, not to mention a known design flaw that allows the head gasket to become susceptible to failure at higher mileage. It was Thanksgiving weekend 2014, and we decided to check out the holiday offers and ended up with a 2014 Honda Civic LX. Like the Accord, it came very well- equipped for a base model, sporting both a backup camera and Bluetooth. Since I compared my last two Accords to a Biscayne and a Bel Air, what would the Civic be? A Nova or a Chevelle?
In the short time we have owned it, my wife appreciates the much improved fuel economy over the Subaru as well as the technology such as the backup camera and Bluetooth. She does miss the storage capacity that the Subaru offered. On my part, I think the two-tiered dashboard takes some getting used to, but I do appreciate the build quality and very competent road manners. It is still very new to us so we are still getting to know it.
This concludes my COAL series. I have enjoyed sharing the times of my life as they relate to the cars I have loved or not loved. I am filled with a sense of gratitude as I reflect back on my life. I have been surrounded by wonderful people, great experiences and great cars. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to do this, and I hope you have enjoyed hearing about my Cars of a Lifetime!
In case you missed them, here they are again in order:
1984 Buick Century & 1981 Buick Skylark
Poorest Quality: 1985 Chevrolet Cavalier, 1984 Chevrolet Cavalier, 1984 Pontiac Sunbird
Most Memorable: 1978 Chevrolet Caprice Classic
Rarest ( Have not seen one of the same year in 20 years): 1986 Pontiac Grand Am
Most Embarrassing: 1985 Chrysler LeBaron & 1987 Chrysler New Yorker Turbo
Least Reliable/Most Unusual: 1983 Saab 900
Most Surprising: 1988 Dodge Aries
1992 Plymouth Acclaim (Most reliable cheap used car) & 1991 Chrysler New Yorker
Most Fun: 1995 Chevrolet Caprice 9C1
1988 Chevrolet Caprice Classic
Most Beloved: 1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic
Weirdest Experience: 1994 Dodge Caravan
Most Life Threatening/Scariest: 1990 GMC Suburban
1995 Buick Roadmaster & 1993 Chevrolet Caprice Classic
Shortest Ownership: 1998 Plymouth Voyager and 1997 Ford Crown Victoria
2005 Honda Accord LX & 2002 Subaru Forester S– Toughest
2010 Honda Accord LX, 2013 Honda Accord LX (The Best I’ve Ever Owned), & 2014 Honda Civic
current model Honda Accord Coupe??
Current model Honda Accord sedan.
It’s been a pleasure reading your COAL series these past weeks. I’m glad you’ve ended with a car you truly love. As a fellow Honda product owner, I can attest that there’s a lot to love about Honda/Acura sedans.
Your comparison of your 2010 and 2013 Accords to the Biscayne and Bel Air makes a lot of sense. While I never disliked the ’08-’12 Accords, I was always a bit uneasy about its fuller dimensions. For some cars it wouldn’t have made a difference, but Accords have always been at the more athletic end of their class. I also echo your thoughts on the interior quality. It wasn’t bad, but compared to the previous generation, seemed a bit too hollow-plasticy and less premium.
The current generation Accord has corrected these issues. Exterior dimensions are smaller, and the Sport models seems to be regarded as one of the best-handling current mid-size family sedans. The interior has better materials and some more upscale finishes. All the standard technology and safety features still amazes me. I was especially impressed with the 2015 I sat in at the auto show a few months ago. Overall a very nice package!
Thanks Brendan!
Wow, what a remarkable turnaround and while the initial cash outlay is greater, you’re not having to worry about the next expense or time consuming breakdown. I sometimes wish I had waited a few months for the 13 Accord but the deal we got on our 12 EXL was too good to pass up, as it is when any car is about to be replaced by a new model. I only wish I could have done the same, more recently, on a leftover 14 F150 supercab 4wd. Noise has been an annoyance on our Accord but mostly in Oregon and Washington dye to their crumbling concrete interstates. Brakes need replacing very soon, Honda put too small rotor on this big car. Otherwise, it’s been stellar in all conditions!
I’d take a 2012 Accord EXL. The top of the line trim level plus most of the 2013’s goodies like Bluetooth and back up camera. Since it is an EXL it adds things I wish my Accord had like leather, heated seats, and heated side mirrors. If yours has the navigation system, then you’ve got it made!
I’d say you have the perfect 8th Generation Accord.
Thanks. No nav as it just wasn’t on the car. I forgot to mention I bought the car in Houston and drive it home to Boise! I felt that was worth about $8k off sticker.
8k off sticker!! That is absolutely worth it!
Wow, $8K?!? It’s pretty easy today to get even a Honda dealer to cut $2K-$3K off sticker price, but even given the looming switchover to the ’13s there has to be more to the story to receive such a large discount. Lot damage? Demo?
The salesman was a friend of a friend but the manager had to approve. I did the deal via phone, email (including printing and scanning docs). Brand new car, never driven with no damage. They had tinted the windows and added the “dealer protection package” of rubber mats and trunk liner, all of which I had not agreed too and I threatened to go across the road to the Ford dealer if they didn’t remove that line item. They folded. The Fusion Sport was 1 on my list but not my wife’s. I used delta skymiles to fly down and Hilton honor points for 1 night lodging (should have done 2). Ate too much jerky as well!
I think they just had a big supply of 12 Accords and wanted them gone. Boise and Salt Lake dealers wouldn’t budge, screw ’em!
Fantastic! Nice job, even with jerky overload.
This has been a wonderful series, Fred. It encapsulates so much about Americans’ car ownership experiences. I think just about all of us had a moment of déjà vu at some point while reading your stories.
Thanks!
jerseyfred, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your COALs and am sad to see them come to an end (for now). Reading them became my Sunday morning routine. I have enjoyed the adventures and the humanity. As david42 says above, there is much deja vu. I appear to be the same age as you and am also married with two kids, and I lived in NJ and Maryland for good portions of my adult life, although we have since moved south. There were many memories – graduate school, bringing a new child home from the hospital, the minivan – that came forth while reading your stories. Even our wedding getaway car was a J-car of the same vintage (albeit a rental).
May your Hondas give you long and faithful service. Our current daily drivers are a Honda (Fit) and a Subaru (Outback) and we enjoy them immensely. Here’s something to chew on: our next car purchase will likely be a third car to have when we have a teenage driver in the house, at which point the COAL cycle begins all over again. All the best to you and your family.
Thanks! You know, just yesterday, I was thinking the exact same thing as you mentioned above. My soon to be 11 year old asked me if we could get McDonald’s later…I responded that in a few years, I would be sending him out to get it for us. I wondered if he would be driving my Accord!
We have also talked about moving south…especially in light of this brutally cold winter!!
Thanks again for your kind words and good wishes…all the best to you and your family as well.
What a transition from costly beaters to costly new cars! The ability to rely without worry on my means of transportation becomes more important as well. The car supposed to serve the owner, not the other way around. It is good to see that you found your brand and model that does it for you and does it so. Enjoy your car, and may your good fortune continue.
I loved your COAL series!
Thanks Wolfgang…I also enjoyed your coming along for the ride!
60,000 miles in two years is a lot. It’s far better to lease or finance a late model for this job, other than using an older car, since the age and mileage bring up the trouble. A lot of issues non-heard of from the long-lasting parts would start to show up, like from CV joint ( especially for a winter car or cars suffering from potholes ) and/or rear axle ( especially those with the independent rear suspension ) They would act far better if the car is either newer or lower mileage, but at 30,000 miles a year, any older car would be high-mileage soon. And you get the much improved MPG at the same time, something an older car can never achieve ( with 4-speed and overdrive coupled with low wind drag, comfortable older V8 cars can get near 30 at most. V6 cars sometimes get the same or slightly better. A car capable of 30-40 would be an eco-box and it would be nowhere near comfort )
The negative side of owning a newer car is insurance, but as long as being out of Michigan ( no-fault insurance and extra outrageous rate ) and at the age of having an 11yo son, not such a big problem really.
Who would have thought back in the ’70s that one day you’d need a backup camera to see out the back of an Accord?
That is true…none of my older cars..except maybe the Camaro had this problem.
Thanks for a great series Fred! It’s been a fun ride and a remarkable transition…I can’t think of a better car for your commute and situation than an Accord. Roomy, comfortable, good on gas, plenty powerful, reliable, excellent resale even with megamiles, what’s not to like? And now your wife is a Honda girl as well, wonderful!
I think we’re about the same age with similar family situations, it’s weird how one day you end up deciding to do that which just makes the most sense from a practicality and economic standpoint and magically it all seems to work out.
Enjoy your cars and I know we will enjoy hearing about your new 10th generation Accord when the time comes in a few years!
LOL! I just chuckled because you read my mind about the 10th gen. Accord.
Thanks for your support…not sure if I told you this, but it was yours and Michael Freeman’s COAL series that inspired me to give writing for pleasure a shot!
Hey Thanks! For me it was Freeman’s series, one day I started counting and thought, wow, there’d be a lot to write about, hopefully someone else would enjoy it. Thanks for making Sunday mornings more fun, and good luck with your cars!
Still waiting to hear the story about the fox body LTD in your family history that you’ve alluded to. That’s a car I wish I had owned. The closest I came to one was my 79 Dad’s Mercury Zephyr. A very simple but reliable car.
I know, I keep alluding to stuff and then other stuff (life) gets in the way. It’s on the list…I don’t know if I would have called either (there were two) of them particularly reliable though.
I’ve quite enjoyed following your interesting and well-written articles. It’s good to see that your luck with cars has steadily improved over time, and you’ve ended up with something that gives you everything you want and need in a car.
Thanks!
Great way to end it, Fred! And one where I’m definitely interested, as I’ll be in the market for a similar (if not the same) vehicle in the next 1-3 years. I’m about 99% set on a Accord EX-L with the 4Cyl and CVT. I really really like the Accord Sport with the manual trans but why couldn’t Honda at least offer a sunroof as an option? That killed it for me, unfortunately – plus getting the leather and other bonuses of the EX-L is just gravy.
You really nail these cars. They’re rock solid reliable, and have been for some time – my sister has a 1999 Accord EX with around 240,000 miles on it – 10 years and 120,000 of those put on by her with very little in the way of maintenance (think very extended intervals) and only one major mechanical, a transmission. Which is a known weak point for those cars, despite now easily having the means for a new car she’s in no hurry to upgrade. I’m hoping she doesn’t – I want to buy it for my 14 year old daughter, but need a little time to recoil from my own latest car nightmare.. 🙂
I think what attracts me the most to them is that they now have the whole package and IMO nobody else really gets it. Toyota has come close with the new Camry but.. it’s a Camry. I really like the Ford Fusion, but at the same time I just never got a overall great sense sitting in one, and I don’t like the local Ford dealer. Honda really has it all nailed, and to boot I’ve so far yet to have a non-stellar experience at a Honda dealer.
One thing I’m curious on – how do you like the CVT in daily use, and how is the interior noise?
Hey Ben,
Thanks for your support. I’ve read about problems with the CVT (low speed pulsations etc) But I’ve not had a problem. One thing I noticed, you really feel a difference when you turn off the economy mode and shift it into Sport mode…completely different car….it accelarates like a high torque V8! If I leave it in economy mode and keep it at 65….I’ve gotten between 36-40 MPG. Keeping it at 65 is the problem because it is so smooth and quiet thanks to the CVT that it is hard to know if you are at 60 or over 90!
Interior noise is much improved.
Ben,
I hear ya on the Accord Sport which has the manual shift, but has limited color choices and configurations. Seems like it only comes with a black cloth interior, and I generally don’t like dark color interiors because it is hotter in the summertime.
Thank you for sharing your ups and downs of car ownership! Loved your writing and glad that you have now pretty trouble-free vehicles.
My wife also has the same generation Civic – and it is a no-fuss vehicle for her too.
Thanks!
Great series, Fred, thank you very much. It is wonderful to see how you’ve stopped trying to adhere to some silly ideology and simply got what worked for you, the ubiquitous Accord.
Of, course, you don’t need to convert me to the Temple of VTEC. I love Honda cars. They are cleverly designed and very well built, and represent a tremendous value for the asking money. I have often seen the Camry as the BelAir, and the Accord as the Pariesenne.
The US based makers have for the most part abandoned this segment, content to let Honda and Toyota sell upwards to a million cars in it.
Thanks again, Fred. I hope we can meet in person for a coffee some time!
Thanks…I can totally see the Accord as the Parisienne.
I’d love to meet for coffee to talk cars…particularly Curbside Classics!
I don’t get it.
This comparison to bel aires and such doesn’t jive with me.
This segment was INVENTED by the Ford Taurus. The Camry/Accord are nothing more than a new improved Ford Taurus.
John,
What segment are you referring too? I meant family sedans like the Impala, LTD/Galaxy, Newport etc. Bread and butter family sedans of the past.
Were you thinking midsize front drive sedans?
Im thinking of the original Ford Taurus. That is what the current Camry/Accord emulate…not a parsienne or whatever else you can come up with from the 60s or 70s.
Both Camry and Accord have been around longer than Taurus…both the car as well as the concept (midsize FWD).
A V6 powered, automatic transmission, roomy trunk, jelly bean shaped, large sedan, fully equipped, was PIONEERED BY TOYOTA AND HONDA???
no.
Taurus was first. Camry and Accord evolved into Taurus clones.
The Camry and especially the Accord were definitely not midsize cars when they were introduced, either by the definition of the time or of today. The Accord might have been the big Honda when it was introduced by it was a Compact by the standards of the day. The Camry was a little bigger but certainly not what it is today in terms of size. It was the Taurus that made the mid-size segment the defacto family sedan. It wasn’t until Honda and Toyota enlarged them that they were on their way to being the sales leaders they are today. They essentially Taurusified them to make them what they are today. I know Paul did an outtake a while ago with a first generation Accord next to a modern Accord that shows just how much it has grown. As mentioned in the article the modern Accord grew so much it was eventually classified as a large car.
Of course by the time the Accord and Camry grew large enough to be a “family sedan” the market had moved on. The segment that then became the family vehicle of choice was what we now know as the mid-sized SUV. That is why Ford put most of their effort into the Explorer and didn’t put as much effort into the Taurus, since the Explorer was the best selling car of the time, and the most profitable vehicle to wear the Ford badge.
^what the buren man said
some day they will ditch the horrible V6 when the standard family sedan becomes wide enough to take a transverse mounted inline six
The GM A-cars had the dimensions and layout of the Taurus before the Taurus did. The V6s aren’t the volume engines in the Camry class, and the ones used by Honda and Toyota have more in common with the Yamaha in the Taurus SHO than the Vulcans in most old Tauruses.
This class evolved from the first 4-door Accord of 1979, and the guys trying to keep their dignity at GM and Ford knew it.
I have to agree with others; this has been a great series, Fred. It’s been so interesting to watch your colorful fleet evolve; quite a story, indeed! Thanks for sharing with us.
Thanks…glad you enjoyed it..I had great fun writing it!
Reading this certainly sets the gears in my head turning, I have a basque red pearl 2012 Civic LX sedan with a 5spd manual as a commuter, that has never set a foot wrong for me and gets 39-40mpg in my summer commute. But…. I think the 10th gen Accords are the the best Honda for sale in the US in a while, and truest to their old formula of excellent ergonomics, light controls, airy and roomy cabin, and wonderful engines and transmissions (and awesome handling and efficiency).
I’m conflicted on what transmission I’d get, my first inclination is to always get a stick shift on any Honda, they’re just so dang pleasant and rewarding to use. But that would leave me with the choice of grey or black for color, and probably a black interior as well (I really like beige interiors like on my Civic). A basque red pearl Accord EX with a beige interior and a 5spd manual would be my ‘unicorn.’
Fred
It has been nice reading your COAL’s over the last few months. I will miss them.
You have stumbled onto the same path a lot of dyed in the wool GM, Ford and Chrysler folks have stumbled on these past 40 years, that path called Asian cars. You are experiencing the joy of being able to go out to your car in the morning without asking yourself “is this $%$# thing going to start?” I like Honda’s offerings and will probably consider a Accord or a Hyundai Sonata as a possible next new car.
I will not touch another new Toyota product after the experience with several dealers with my former XB and warranty work (F you Toyota of America!!)
Did you have any issues with brakes on the 2010 Accord? The 2008 and 2009 were known for eating rear brakes.
As for the Civic. I have always like them and to be honest, I actually liked the 2012 Civic that was killed off quickly due to bad press. The 2013- are nice also and very roomy.
You should be able to get 10 years at least out of the Accord and Civic as they love lots of miles.
Thanks Leon. Yes the rear brakes on the 2010 were changed early (26,000 miles?) at extremely low cost (less than $100) by Honda. No problems after that. The front brakes were never changed and still had about 70% on them after 100,000 miles.
Is Toyota starting to jump the shark with warranty BS?
At least with me they did.
My 2012 Scion XB was bought new and with just under 13,000 miles was brought in to Toyota Scion of Silver Spring for an oil change and to find out why there was a coolant smell round the front of the car near the drivers side when it had been driven and parked. Toyota tech verified the smelling of coolant while changing the oil BUT the dealership could not diagnose it unless I paid a diagnostic fee of $160. This on a car that at less then 13,000 miles old had plenty of miles and time left on the bumper to bumper warranty and I had an extended warranty to boot. I just had them document that in the paperwork(which I kept) so that if it blew up due to coolant loss then it was on them.(in fact every oil change or service I had done on it I made sure they documented that it had a coolant smell.
The final straw was that the automatic transmission shifter know would not stay on due to the plastic threads in the knob being broken(now this is a auto trans and not a manual so the shifter is not used as much or gripped as much.) they denied the warranty claim saying they don’t warranty cosmetic issues????? how can plastic threads hidden in a shifter knob be cosmetic??? A call to Scion USA and Toyota USA elicited no joy. At that point i was done. I bought a new shifter knob at Carmax Toyota in Laurel MD and after it came in and I replaced the bad one with the new one, I drove it next door to Carmax and sold it. I lost $1000 on the car but I was so happy to dump that damn car.
A week later I had a Japanese friend help me write a angry letter to Toyota Japan detailing everything. 2 months later Toyota USA called me up and told me they would do whatever it took to make it right. I told them too late I dumped the car and I would never buy another Toyota again and that I was one of those under 50 folks that Toyota was trying desperately to bring in and that they blew it with me.
It seems Toyota has adopted the same arrogance that GM had and the “holier then thou” mentality that pushed GM into bankruptcy. Toyota better wake up or else they will be seeing the backsides of Hyundai, Kia and Honda.
I don’t know what planet you’ve been living on, but Toyota dealerships have NEVER been known for being reasonable or willing to negotiate. You must earn the privilege of owning a Toyota and you’d better recognize they are in charge not you. that is their attitude and always has been.
Leon,
Great points.
These so-called Asian brands have assimilated to North America — the Accord and Camry are domesticated, both in manufacture (Camry is one of the models with the highest local content sold in NA) and in adaptation to local tastes and needs. The Accord has evolved from a compact car to a large car. Some might even ruefully say that the car got “super sized” (like the obesity rate among Americans).
I have a 2009 Camry – was looking at a similar vintage Accord but got scared off by its history of premature rear brake wear. While I haven’t had the bad experience you did with Toyota USA, I have to say that the service experience at my local Toyota dealer pales with that of our history with Honda’s dealership service for my wife’s Civics.
Wife drives the much-maligned 2012 Civic. It maintains the typical virtues of her 2000 Civic (which we traded in after over 120,000 miles), such as reliability, economy and ease of use. My only quibble with it is the cheapening of the interior trim.
Keep in mind the GM and Ford vehicles that Fred had owned were pretty old and often pretty abused when he purchased them so it is a little unfair to compare the reliability of a car with many years (and often a fair amount of abuse in the case the vehicles that Fred purchased) and miles under its belt to a low mile or brand new car.
I don’t worry whether my American cars will start when I go out to get in it morning or night. In fact I have a great story from yesterday on why I;d choose a Ford over a Honda any day due to the greater thought they put into them.
This weekend was one of the events for the organization that I volunteer for. That meant leaving in the dark for my hour plus drive to be there for set up and not getting out of there until 9pm. As the event was wrapping up for the day I happened to be walking near the admin desk. A person walked up and asked if they had some jumper cables. I have know idea why he would think we would have jumper cables, but it is where we have the PA and could have put out an announcement. He said that his friend had left his lights on and he needed a jump. Since I had parked in the back near the volunteer entrance I said just come with me so you can point me to the car. I hopped in my Ford and turned the key and guess what the headlights came on because I too had left them on. But since Ford has had a battery saver function on their cars for almost 2 decades my car started right up. When I got to the car that needed a jump it was a Honda and like Paul’s car the battery was tiny and it was completely dead. And it was not the first time that battery saver had saved me that day because I had left the lights on the night before. Yes it is sad that I have done it so much but in my defense I’m used to driving other Panthers with Autolamps so them being on when I walk away from the car is something I expect. Because that one is an ex Police car there is no lights on buzzer to avoid giving away their presence.
Eric,
1) My Accord has a battery saver…turns off trunk light, headlights, and other lights when left on too long…saved me many times
2) It does have a tiny battery. It is incapable of jump starting another car. Because it is tiny…I think it has to work harder and thus wears out sooner. Had to rescue a neighbor in her two year old Honda CRV because of a worn out battery.
I guess Honda has finally figured out that one for their flagship. The car in this case was a Fit. Didn’t ask the year but it was a recent one.
Yes on lead acid batteries size does matter, not only on the outside but on the inside too. There is of course only so much power you can stick inside a tiny battery but how much they put in a particular size battery can vary significantly. As Paul noted when his Acura left him stranded and he wisely decided to replace the tiny and abused battery the middle of the road replacement had a rated capacity significantly greater, about 25% if I remember correctly.
A battery upgrade is something I’ve been thinkng about.
The controversial split-level dash on recent Civics might be explained thus: look at the inner diameter of the smallish (boy-racer friendly) steering wheel. Could you still fit the traditional gauge set within its arc without shrinking them too much? Rather than enlarging the wheel, I think Honda solved the problem by moving the speedo, temp, & fuel gauges outside of it, leaving room for the tach & warning lights. Consider also the alternate digital gauge set for Hybrid & CNG models.
By contrast, the VW Passat wheel clips its gauges. I think the Accord pictured above has a bigger wheel, hence no problem with a traditional gauge cluster.
Funny…the small steering wheel is one of the first things I noticed when I first got behind the wheel. I’ve driven it only about three or four times since we got it in late November 2014. My wife is very attached to it. That’s ok….I think she’s driven my Accord once since we bought it two years ago.
A few years back, I visited my uncle in Toronto, and he lent me his Civic for the duration of the trip, two weeks. I actually liked the split dash, since you don’t need to take your eyes off the road to see your speed.
For a car of this kind of money, this Civic is a screaming deal. It is well put together, drives well and is roomy. In fact, it is not a lot smaller than my 2000 TL. The one I was driving was an automatic and the lack of manual control sucked the life from the high-revving Honda motor. Manuals are special order only now and good luck trying to sell one privately.
The Civic is still a screaming deal for what is a very good car, much better than any similar Korean car. The Mazda 3 is better but more money.
agree
I just bought a 2008 civic stickshift from a private owner. I watched the ad for awhile and saw it was not selling. Then I stepped in and gave a low offer and he jumped on it. I actually prefer sticks so this is perfect for me. I had also been watching an older ford fusion low miles 4 cylinder stick that was not selling. That guy would not budge from his above-blue-book asking price. In hindsight I’m glad he would not budge. I got me an ’08 4door base model civic with 85k miles for 7k. Well below blue book.
I’ve already mentioned the things about it that I dislike. But overall, I am happy. I commute long distances to work every day and I really need something like this. I think the worst thing about this car is that it makes me drive fast. If I get on the open road, no curves and no traffic, I cant keep it below 90. I get into triple digits all the time on such roads with this thing.
I’m starting to get over my aversion to RPMs thanks to this car. Every car before this one I do not like to see RPMs higher than 3000 except for very brief bursts and prefer monotonous steady pace long distance travel to be well under 2500RPMs due to wear and tear on the engine. But this little engine seems to not mind RPMs and in fact seems to perform poorly below 2500RPMs.
I have mixed feelings on that now. Used to be I would’ve dismissed such an engine immediately as being a disaster waiting to happen. I’m starting to think of it as NOT a car engine but more of a japanese motorcycle engine…optimum operating rage 3500-7500 RPMs.
Its been a few years since I had one of them. I’ve had exclusively Harleys for 15 or so years now. Those run best 1500-4000RPM similar to a traditional large straight six or large V8 american car engine.
I beleive you are correct.
But they screwed up.
They should have put the gas and temp gauges down low and the speedo/tach up high
Speedo is up high, John and has been since 2006. RPM gauge is useless to most people in a normal driving situation, especially with an automatic, so it’s low. Fuel and MPG are now up high as they are useful to see without looking down. Temp used to be high, now it’s gone probably because it so extremely rarely is an issue.
Mine is a 2008 stick so I need the tach
One thing about this car that really bugs me is the gas gauge. It is in 20 increments. Don’t those silly japs know we use fractions here? There is no way to read 1/8ths and 1/16ths of a tank when your gauge is in 20 increments!
MADDENING!
the car interior is designed for people with huge asses, tall torsos, little fingers, and short legs…EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF ME!
Oh well, its still an excellent car.
Ah, the back-up camera. A friend has a CRV with one and it’s terrific in tight parking lots populated with HUGE mommy mobiles.
I’ve enjoyed every entry and can share your misery on some of the cars that just didn’t work out.
Thanks Lynne
A most enjoyable series. Thanks for the ride(s) !
Thanks for coming along!
I’ve driven nothing but Hondas since my first car in 1982, a 1982 Accord hatchback. I kept it for five years, and traded it in for an 87 Prelude, one of my favorite cars, ever. In 94, I traded in the 87 for a 94 Prelude Si, which I kept unil it was totaled in 2001. I got a 2001 Accord EX-L V6. Of all my cars, the 2001 was my least favorite. I think it’s because it was the only one with an automatic. I traded that in finally in 2013 and got an Accord EX coupe 4cyl 6 mt. This car, I love. Fast, lots of tech, looks great, FANTASTIC gearbox, and an engine that loves to rev. I love it almost as much as my 87 Prelude.
There actually is a good reason to sell a car before it gets to 100K. Despite the fact that many cars will last for 200K or more the value does take big hit when it turns 100,001 miles. It is not exactly rational but that is still the case in today’s market. Some lenders will not even lend money on a car with over 100K Many new car dealers do not want such a car on their lot so they will not give you as high of a trade in value because they will wholesale it off and expect to make at least a little profit on it. So unless you are going to drive it to at least 150K or maybe 200K you are almost always better off selling it or trading it in before that 100K mark as silly as it is.
The 7th Gen accord has always reminded me of a Manatee
Fred I enjoyed this series very much and I’m glad there was finally some light at the end of the tunnel for you.
The current Accord is the first one I’ve really liked in a long time, probably my favorite since the 5th generation car. It’s funny, Paul just re-ran an article from a few years ago and I read some comment I made in it to the effect of “Honda sucks now. All boring cars. Lame lame lame, etc.” I dunno if it’s getting to be an old fart or whether they’ve actually changed somewhat, but I definitely wouldn’t think that now. Even the 8th gen Accord and current Civic, both of which I didn’t like at all when they debuted, now just seem like good, if slightly conservative, cars. The black Civic seen here actually looks real good, IMO.
Thanks Sean.
As much as I dislike the back end of the ’08-’12 Accord sedan, I would consider buying one if the deal and car were right. However, I would much prefer the 2013 as I think it looks so much nicer in comparison. Even the dashboard and interior materials seem nicer in the 2013.
Fred, I’ve greatly enjoyed reading your COAL series, and some of the highs and lows you’ve experienced in your search for automotive nirvana. And, after so many twists and turns, your analogy that these cars are the modern equivalent of the B-body is quite apt. I never cared for the 8th-gen car–I was one of those who found it to be a little too big for what my personal perception of what an Accord should be. But the current one is actually quite compelling, and if they still made a wagon, I’d be very tempted. So I’m sure your choice will leave you happy for years to come!
Thanks again for sharing your experiences with us!
Thanks for being a faithful reader Chris!
Fred: Thanks for the “long, strange trip” of your automotive history! It has been an enjoyable ride! BTW: I bought my first Honda (a 1989 LXi 5 speed w/ 149k on the odometer)! NEVERwould have done that w/an american car of that vintage! 🙂
Thanks Elliott
Good job, Fred. Enjoyed the series.
Sorry you had so many problems with your B-bodies. My ’91 Caprice was bulletproof once we repaired an oil cooler line. We did a radiator, tune up and brake lines over the five years of ownership (2008-13)…things that happen to older cars due to corrosion like we get in the Northeast.
My wife lamented my selling it – it was perfect for long trips – but it was also at the point where it was either restore or sell if we wanted to keep it nice.
Restoration would’ve been expensive to do correctly as body panels misaligned from birth would’ve come off looking like poor bodywork to strip, prime, block sand and paint. I’m not talking doors or fenders hung improperly…I’m talking entire panels – like the contour of a door not exactly matching the next door, which didn’t exactly match the contour of the rear quarter even though the moldings and sculpturing lined up perfectly from front to back. Roger Smith-era GM at its finest.
For that kind of money, I have my ’57 Chevy 210 Handyman project.
That makes a lot of sense. I try to be a used car buyer most of the time, and I’ve been selling new Honda’s for years. This new generation of Accord impressed me so much I crumbled and got a new EX for myself.
Great series, Fred. With the miles you drive and the winters being so brutal a reliable car really is a must. You have chosen well.
Thanks!
I’m sorry (sincerely!) to be pedantic, but they only seemed like an improvement—quite the opposite, in fact—and the problems numbered much more than one, as described here. For the safety of you, your family, and everyone else in traffic with you, please don’t do that again. Same goes for “LED bulb” conversions.