(First Posted 1/26/2014, now includes updates at the end) In the summer of 2012, my wife and I sold all of our cars except for our Honda Odyssey, while my mom left her Subaru Outback in my care during a summer-long trip to Alaska. Before leaving on a trip of her own, my wife told me to figure out what we would be buying when she got back.
The requirements were that it be somewhat upscale, not something that every other neighbor was driving, and if it was a little offbeat that would not be a bad thing. My wife is the kind of gal that looks longingly at every Range Rover Sport that we see stopped at the side of the freeway and assumes that the driver is just enjoying the view. While fairly tolerant of cars with “personality”, I am a little more pragmatic these days and don’t want to pay anyone money to fix stuff that really should not be breaking in the first place.
Many of you may not know that for a long time, new diesel-powered cars were forbidden fruit in California. It was not possible to buy one new, and some people were importing and selling them with hefty markups after they’d accumulated 7500 out-of-state miles, the point after which buyers are able to register one as a used vehicle.
As a result, many Californian gearheads find diesels interesting, perhaps due to the persona-non-grata image they had. Having driven some diesels in Europe, I understood the appeal of modern diesels vs. gas-powered cars (fuel economy, huge torque numbers).
After moving to Colorado however, diesels were everywhere. Most of those sold were VWs, but Mercedes were also abundant, with Audis and BMWs starting to appear as well (this is aside from the huge pickups that are all over the place). However, I found that the diesels did seem to sell for a hefty (unreasonable to my eyes) premium on the used car market that I was looking at originally.
So I switched gears and started looking at the normal gas-powered SUVs from the same manufacturers, namely the BMW X5, Mercedes ML350 and Audi Q7. However I got discouraged again when I looked at the price vs. accrued mileage equation and did not think they were any kind of value as a used vehicle.
Eventually I got to looking at the VW Touareg. Still a bit leery of VW based on my experiences with my ‘95 Jetta and my wife’s ’96 GTI (not to mention the various horror stories heard on the web), I was not sure if I should give VW another chance. When I looked at the Touareg, I was surprised to note that VW had seen fit to endow all Touaregs with a 10year/100,000mile powertrain warranty.
I was even more intrigued when I realized they were offering 0% financing on new purchases at the time, which A) made them barely more expensive than a slightly used one due to the difference in interest rates and B) made the VW much less expensive than the other contenders when financing was figured in.
The Touareg has been sold here since 2004. After making a fairly big splash at the beginning, sales volume has decreased over time. A facelifted version came in 2007 without making much of an impact and then in 2011, the next generation was unveiled and seems to be selling better. It is still very much a low-volume car, with sales of all versions rarely exceeding 1,000 units per month. In all of 2012, a total of 10,553 were sold in the U.S. and an additional 1,975 in Canada.
In the early years, VW saw fit to offer VR6 and V-8 gasoline engines, and a stonking big V-10 turbodiesel engine. In the current generation, the choices are limited to either a 3.6-liter VR6 or a 3.0liter V-6 turbodiesel. The trim levels offered with both engines are called Sport, Lux, and Executive. There is also a Hybrid version but it is very seldom seen (and costs more than any other version).
All Touaregs are assembled in Bratislava, Slovakia with engines coming from Hungary and transmissions from Japan according to my sticker. Parts content is listed as 25% German, 32% Slovak and 1% US/Canadian. I have no idea where the other 42% hail from.
Originally I thought that the TDI Sport version would be good for us. However, once my wife returned and I took her to the dealer, she saw one with a saddle brown interior and decided that was the interior she wanted. Of course the brown interior was not available in the Sport version and required a step up to the Lux version. Lux relative to Sport means that you get leather seats versus VW’s version of Vinyl (named V-Tex, kind of like MB-Tex), walnut trim as opposed to piano black and aluminum, a huge full length glass roof that opens, 19” instead of 18” alloys, and memory seats.
The base price for this trim level is $52,895, the options on ours (trailer package, mud flaps, winter mats, etc.) and destination amounted to another $1,925 for a grand total sticker of $54,920. Yes, I did find myself choking a bit at the thought of paying over fifty grand for a Volkswagen, no matter how nice. Happy wife, happy life, right?
A second issue is that the one that our dealer had was already sold and awaiting pickup. It was three days prior to the end of the month and nobody knew if VW would be extending the financing offer to the next month, so we had to move fast. We ended up looking on the VW website and charted all of the inventory in Colorado. Then we got on the phone and called everyone that had one with a brown interior.
VW offers the brown with any exterior color, of which nine were officially offered, including blue and brown along with white, black and five different silver and gray shades. My wife liked the blue and brown, the latter I did not care for, though we found out there were no more blue ones available anywhere.
We drove down to Denver to take a look at one in the white color that we both thought we’d like and realized that even though the brochure only lists one white (Campanella White) there were actually two whites in production, the other called Pure White.
That dealer had one of each and when viewed next to each other, the difference is significant. Upon seeing both, my wife now preferred the Pure White, which in this dealer’s case had a black interior. So we had to get on the phone and figure out who had which white.
In the end Elk Mountain VW in Glenwood Springs had one in stock and was willing to drive it to the halfway point to meet us and do the deal in a Starbucks but would not budge on the price as they “had a buyer that was coming in tomorrow to buy it if we did not commit to it now at the full price”. The dealer in Greeley was willing to get one from elsewhere and sell it to us for less money. After going back and forth with both of them, the Greeley dealer eventually stated that their source was now unwilling to give them the car as that source said they had found a buyer that would buy it that day.
We figured out that they were actually talking with Elk Mountain who themselves seemed to be playing us, at which point I told the Elk Mountain salesperson that the “other buyer” could have it but that I thought they were making a mistake. The Greeley dealer in the meantime found a car that was exactly what we wanted in Omaha and was willing to bring it out for us at a total price that was still less so we decided to do that.
I tell this somewhat convoluted story as it was immensely satisfying when the Elk Mountain salesperson called three days later and said they were now ready to sell us the car as the “other buyer” did not materialize. I was able to tell him that I would have loved to have done business with him, but his game backfired on him and I had committed to buying elsewhere. For all I know the car is still in his back lot. I hope so, anyway.
Okay, so let’s see what we have. A Touareg TDI in pure white with saddle brown interior, with the same engine found in the Audi Q7 TDI and now the Porsche Cayenne Diesel. In 2012 this engine was rated at 225hp at 3500rpm and 406lb/ft of torque at an astoundingly low 1750rpm, routed through an 8-speed automatic transmission and full-time all-wheel-drive. For 2013 the engine was re-rated at 240hp but all other figures are the same. Curb weight is listed at a hair under 5000 pounds.
As far as the interior color is concerned, the brown is very appealing, consisting of two shades that complement each other. Most of the interior is a very dark brown–like dark chocolate–with other parts more of a milk chocolate color. It works very well in person, but is sometimes hard to photograph correctly. When I was at the LA Auto Show a couple of months ago, brown was a very popular interior color in many vehicles. I guess it is the next big thing.
The warranties are quite generous as well. Besides the aforementioned 10yr/100k on engine, transmission and AWD system, the car is covered from bumper to bumper for 3 years and/or 36,000 miles and comes with free servicing during that period. As a Touareg owner I also received a letter giving me a dedicated hotline at corporate to call if I ever had an issue with the vehicle or the dealer. This apparently grants me better treatment compared to other VW owners.
It appears that VW is really trying to give a superior experience to those that spend a significant amount of money, although I believe they should be giving the same superior experience to everyone. After all, that Jetta buyer may have a need for a pricier car down the road.
As of today our Touareg has just under 20,000 miles on it and we are almost ready for our second service. At the first service I noted a piece of loose trim in the back seat area that necessitated the dealer ordering a special clip that I never went back for. When I schedule this service I will ask them to have that clip ready to install. Other than that we have not had a single problem.
It drives very well. Right off the line it feels a little sluggish but once the turbo kicks in after a few feet of motion it goes like the dickens. Midrange acceleration is its strong suit. While driving on the freeway at 70mph, if you bury your foot, it just leaps forward with an urge that I have not felt since my heavily modified 1993 Audi S4. It does not seem to matter how many of the seats are filled, it just moves. The ride is fairly firm but well-controlled and it will go around corners much faster than you’d expect with very little lean.
This shows the filler for the “AdBlue”, or Diesel Exhaust Fluid, between the spokes
The diesel characteristics are not really noticeable. It is fairly quiet inside and what can be heard is not unpleasant. There are never any odors, nor any clouds of smoke. The car does have a urea tank, which we have not had to refill yet. I suppose the dealer may have filled it at the first 10,000 mile service and will presumably do so again at the upcoming service. The fluid (called AdBlue) is the same as what you can pick up at any truckstop or even Walmart. It is cheap and there is a tank in the rear of the car next to the spare tire.
If it needs filling a light is supposed to come on which gives you 1500 miles of range within which a refill is required. Once empty, it will allow you to start the car two or three more times but if you push it beyond that, well, you will literally be pushing the car.
Even though it has a VW badge on it, it is equipped with practically every doo-dad that you can imagine. The most interesting of these are the swiveling headlights, which turn with the steering at speeds over 12mph, a la Citroen forty years ago. Under 12mph, the relevant side’s fog light comes on to provide more light. It works well and going through turns in the dark is significantly better with this system. All cars should have this.
Much of our driving is in town, which is not the diesel’s strong suit, and we are averaging over 22mpg overall, which is quite a bit better than the gas version achieves. Our sticker lists it as 19 City / 28 Highway with a combined rating of 22mpg so we are pretty much on the money. On the highway, we have on occasion seen it sustain 30mpg over long distances. With a 26.4 gallon fuel tank, it has a range of well over 700 miles which I got a chance to test again just before the new year.
I took my two boys on a roadtrip to Chicago just after Christmas. We filled the tank before we left and did not fill up again until Des Moines, IA which is 675 miles away. At the refill point, the trip computer still displayed a range of sixty miles. We were averaging just under 80mph but did stop several times. I had the satellite radio on the whole way and the boys were looking out their windows and watching movies on their Kindles when they got bored. The big VW was rock solid and very quiet inside.
While in Chicago I got a chance to compare it to my friend’s Mercedes ML 350 of similar vintage. My friend was very impressed with several of the VW’s features that his car did not have. In particular, the backup camera has several sets of superimposed lines that show where you will head if you go straight back. More importantly if you are turning while backing, it will show you the arc that the sides of the car will travel through, which is a huge advantage when backing into a parking spot.
He was also smitten with the fact that the driver’s seat heater will maintain its setting when the car is restarted but the passenger’s seat heater will only do so if someone is sitting in it after the restart. Those in his car have to be reset every time the car is started.
Another feature he really liked is the HVAC’s “Rest” feature. Pressing this button after stopping the engine directs the heater and blower to keep working by using the residual heat in the system until cold. Perfect for when you go to the grocery store on a cold day, for example.
As long as the engine is fully warmed up, the car will remain nice and toasty for well over half an hour while you are inside shopping. It’s kind of the opposite of the feature that some luxury cars had (have?) where a small solar panel in the sunroof will power the fan to circulate fresh (cooler) air through the car on a hot day.
While the drive out to the midwest was uneventful, the return trip was worse. Just after Iowa City we hit a snowstorm with temperatures around zero degrees Fahrenheit that left the freeway a large sheet of ice. We did not really notice it until one point when a car in the distance braked, and the VW was unable to really slow down and also began to rotate.
I immediately got off the brakes and the car straightened up at which point I got back on the brakes a lot more softly and it started to slow down a bit. I believe what happened is that I actually locked up all four tires on ice. Although the car has ABS, if all four wheels are locked at the same time, I suppose the system will figure it is stopped. The stability control supposedly is able to sense if the car is traveling at an angle not supported by the steering wheel angle and can correct for that.
Obligatory stop in Le Claire, IA – Fans of the show…
Again, though, if you are on a sheet of ice, you are still limited by the tires’ available traction level. In any case, we saw dozens of wrecks and stranded cars, thankfully we avoided everything by trying to stay away from other vehicles, and it was very slow going for several hours. After an overnight stop in Kearney, NE (did you know this is exactly the midpoint between LA and Boston? Says so right on the brochure provided by our hotel!) we continued home. Weirdly, the temperature in Nebraska was in the high fifties with no snow whatsoever.
The lesson to be learned is that even with all of the available high-tech nannies and a full time AWD system, the all-season tires end up becoming the limiting factor. In my Touareg’s case they are a relatively high performance all-season (Goodyear Eagle LS2) that is great in dry or wet weather but in snow and ice, not as good as our Odyssey on a set of subpar snow tires. With a good set of snows, I think the Touareg would probably be a monster in the white stuff.
At the beginning of last year we were involved in a small accident with the VW. While waiting to turn onto our street, a Honda Accord driven by a high school student could not stop in time on the ice that was present and hit the rear corner of the car. My wife was beyond pissed but the other driver’s insurance covered everything.
While there was no sheetmetal damage, the bumper skin and a lot of the assembly underneath deformed or broke as it was designed to and one of the tailpipes was bent. I took it to a highly recommended shop in town and was astounded to learn that the damage cost almost $5,000 to repair. They did a phenomenal job on the repair and it is not possible to tell that there was any damage whatsoever.
As you may recall from my post a few weeks ago, we have a pop-up camper and are trying to decide on the best way to tow it. The Touareg in TDI form with the factory towing package is rated to tow 7,700 pounds, which is more than enough. However, as a family of five we really need a third row to keep the kids content–and myself sane–for any trip that is more than just local. So we are at a bit of a crossroads and are currently weighing our options. Getting rid of a child is not one of them.
The VW has been a great vehicle, we are very happy with it so far. Even though it is very expensive it is definitely superior to much of the competition. Compared to any domestic offerings, the fit, finish, and quality of materials is superior and compared to the Asian offerings, it just feels much more physically solid. It is fully competitive with more expensive, established German luxury manufacturers’ offerings. I’m sure it will also be equally as expensive as those other German brands when the time comes to fix something that is not under warranty or perform regular service.
Next week will bring my authorship of this Cars Of A Lifetime series to a close, but I have one more car in the garage whose story I will share. Unless, that is, I buy something else in the next week (you never know).
Update 6/24/2018: So, this is kind of weird when looking back on it but read the last sentence above again – When I wrote that I didn’t have any preconceived notions but as it turned out we traded the Touareg in exactly ELEVEN DAYS after this was published the first time. It did not quite get to 20k miles. The good news is that nothing eventful happened to it since you last read this post, at least not to our VW. VW itself, well, that’s another story as we all know. Also, if you know me, you know that the second to last sentence is in no way true anymore. We are nowhere near the end of this series. Anyway…
As things turned out, this particular Touareg would end up being one of the ones affected by the TDI fiasco (remember how I thought it seemed to be extremely frugal in its use of the Diesel Exhaust Fluid)? Yeah, that. In hindsight, from a financial perspective we should have kept it, the payoff that VW ended up offering (or being forced to offer, I suppose) was extremely generous, we would have done very well on it. But that was all in the semi-distant future. Looking back, it was pretty good overall, it was built to a standard above what other VWs seemed to have been and the materials used were better than what is offered today in the Atlas. Of course the Atlas competes in a very different space and as such it makes sense. This was a VW that really was comparable to the BMW X5, Mercedes M-Class and Audi Q7 in every way but overall brand perception.
The best thing about our Touareg was probably the vastly reduced need to go to the gas station due to the lower fuel consumption mixed with a large tank. You don’t realize how much you don’t miss going until you once again have to go much more frequently and it’s a subject that still comes up more than four years later. Will we ever get another VW? Maybe, time will tell; although what is interesting is that we don’t really discuss the TDI thing much at home and our daughter is approaching driving age and she, on her own, is fairly adamant that she would prefer to drive something that is not a VW product due to what she has learned on the subject.
I understand her friends feel much the same way. Is this the idealism of youth? I’m not sure, but it’s one thing for a fifteen-year-old to not want a car (or whatever the items in question is) because it isn’t the trendy thing or not as good in her mind as something else, and something else for them to not want it due to something bad that the corporation did. I’ll be interested in seeing if she adjusts her views over time in that regard. You all will be the first to know.
I look forward to this every Sunday Morning. Actually the first thing I read on Sundays; really enjoying it. I’m sorry that next week will be the last one. I hope you find many more cars that catch your eye in the near future!
Thank you very much, I felt the same way about Mike’s series prior to mine. It was like unwrapping a Christmas present every week, always a little surprise.
“Much of our driving is in town”
I strongly advice you to give it a nice long workout regularly. Once it has reached its full operating temperature, step on it ! Put the pedal to the metal ! (And not for just a few minutes)
Driving mainly short distances and cruising in and around town at low revs and speeds will ruin a modern state-of-the-art diesel engine in about 3 to 5 years.
Turbo charger, injectors, glow plugs, EGR-valve, battery and the DPF are the main parts to bite the dust first. Reaching full operating temperature as often as possible is crucial, and DON’T drive it as an elderly woman who never drives it beyond the local grocery shop. (In your case I don’t think that will happen though….)
Good luck with your car, I like it very much ! A 6 cylinder diesel, my favorite engine concept these days. Although my 3 liter four banger has its “agricultural charm”…
Oh, don’t worry, we do. I enjoy feeling the 406 “torques” whenever I can….:-)
I’m sure you do ! Otherwise your name would have been “GrannyRöhrl”.
Accurate maintenance and good quality diesel fuel are the two other points of attention. A modern diesel engine is fully computerized high-tech machinery. Like pretty much anything else by the way.
Sound advice, have to agree with Johannes on this, a modern diesel run around town is a much greater liability than a petrol for all the reasons cited, the repair costs definitely outweigh the fuel savings.
I speak from my brothers experience of a Passat diesel, for short town trips they now have a 1.3 petrol Yaris, and a late model diesel Golf Estate, the sporty spec one
They must have a good Italian tune up every now and again to keep them clean, I used to do that to my diesel 2002 Rover 75 prior to the annual MOT which includes an emissions test
I would hate to imagine the fuel consumption of the petrol Toureq, so diesel would be the only choice, but I can foresee pre DPF diesel cars not being allowed into main cities in the UK pretty soon
Not sure what the quality of US fuel is, but it does make a difference , I have gone back to petrol now and use Shell Unleaded instead of supermarket fuel ( a good few pence cheaper per litre than the branded fuel) maybe £5 per tank difference; but the performance is better, more responsive and smoother, about 1-2 mpg better fuel consumption
I am undecided about the merits of diesel over petrol in a normal car, it takes so much extra technology over a petrol to make them clean and civilised enough for me, nice when it works but I hate big repair bills, I expect 200K miles from a petrol engine these days
No doubt about the fuel efficiency, the world trade runs on diesel, perhaps the diesel will generate the electricity and we recharge our electric cars with it, I see that as the long term future of diesels rather than any great leap forward in diesel powered cars, unless anyone knows different?
I somehow had a feeling that a Touareg would be in your car ownership history.
As for the current Touareg, I really happen to like them. So much, in fact, that it was one of the cars I steered my mom to when she was looking at new luxury SUVs this past year. The main turnoff is the price. Touareg V6 Sports start at just under 40K, and for that you get IMO very cheap looking and feeling vinyl seats. By the time you step up to the Lux, you could get a related Q7 for about the same price. And in her case, where smaller was actually better, the less-expensive Q5 was an even more attractive option.
She ultimately fell in love with the MB GLK. They did have to find the exact model she wanted (similar to your wife, she wanted a “Almond” interior and “Steel Gray”, which is really more of a blueish-gray), which ended up being in New Jersey. As it turned out, despite being optional, finding a GLK with the full-leather seating package is a needle in a haystack – although my mom and I found the MB-tex very soft and quite convincing. We refer to it as “Vegan Leather”. After easily negotiating a final sale price of over $5,000 under sticker, the Mercedes was hers.
I still really like the Touerag though, and wish you a happy ownership experience with it.
I think the same thing is happening out here too as I see very few of the new generation Touareg , probably more Cayennes! I think buyers are opting for the only- slightly smaller Q5, X1 etc.
Interesting story as always Jim, good luck with the decision.
My wife is a bigger fan of the Q7 than I am (and I used to be a huge Audi fan). Similarly specc’ed out with the diesel it’s at least $10k more. At some point that extra money does matter. Of course I priced out an equivalent Cayenne when they were introduced later. I gave up adding stuff when I hit 6 figures. Mind you, I was only trying to replicate my car’s equipment as a Porsche, not see how high I could get it to go to.
In hindsight the extra money spent on the Audi may have been a good idea as I’d be able to have the diesel, tow and have the 3 rows, but that was all not really a factor when we were looking for this. And we weren’t looking to spend $60k+ either.
The leather in the Touareg is good I suppose but still does not feel that much different from the V-Tex or MB-Tex. I suppose it is super durable and has great texture but is likely quite processed. It’s amazing the lengths they go to to save a few pennies though. The seating surfaces are leather, the edges are vinyl that look and feel very similar (my mom can’t tell the difference), but a couple of areas on the console side of the seat are matching brown cloth – it being an area that is almost not visible and virtually never touched.
That “Vegan Leather” term is a good one!
Yeah I honestly feel that most leather in cars theses days is extremely processed. For example, the leather in my mom’s last car, an X3, looked and felt no different than the MB-Tex in her GLK. Several 3-Series we got to experience as loaners were even worse. I’m certain they were leather-equipped from the seem and stitching pattern, but were extremely cheap.
The seating surfaces and bolsters in my Acura are real leather, and surprisingly soft to the touch. I like how the hide is a bit loose-fitting. The downside is they wear much faster, as evidenced by the bolster on the driver’s seat. center armrest, door armrests, and the back sides of the front seats are definitely vinyl, which doesn’t matter. I originally thought that door panels were real leather, as they match the perforated sections of the seats, but upon reading the owner’s manual, discovered they were “leatherette”.
“Weirdly, the temperature in Nebraska was in the high fifties with no snow whatsoever.”
I can vouch for that. My sister went/goes to UNL and everytime we went down to visit her this past winter, we were astounded by the lack of snow compared to MN. Our Christmas vacation was in San Diego–thanks to the “Polar Vortex,” our flight home from Denver was cancelled and the next available flight was two days later (which ended up being cancelled too). So we rented two cars (I can’t believe my aunt and uncle got the Fusion while we were stuck with an Avenger) and drove 12 hours back home, with no snow, of course. Just bitterly cold temps.
Urea tank? I had an ’84 Suburban Diesel about 20 years ago and it didn’t have one of those…
That stuff’s darned expensive, too. Between the cost of diesel compared to gasoline, paying for exhaust fluid and the increased maintenance and the much higher cost of rebuilding a diesel engine, all this cancels any of the fuel efficiency savings of diesel. So what’s the point?
Autozone sells diesel exhaust fluid for $6 per gallon. We’ve used less than 5 gallons per 10k miles so the cost is pretty insignificant. If it removes any trace of smoke and soot it is well worth it. The extra up front cost of a modern diesel is easily recouped around here at resale time. I love the torque, and enjoy the faint grumble that our diesel makes. The best part is being able to easily exceed 600 miles between fill ups. Thankfully diesel is widely available here and the gas stations keep the diesel areas pretty clean although every once in a while you do see a dirty, smelly one.
A BMW salesman told me that a 5-series diesel will cost more than a petrol to own ( the extra purchase cost is not offset by higher fuel economy and resale ) but more people still buy the diesels. Part of it will be fashion/bragging rights but also the torque and range as Jim mentioned in his article.
The cost of Addblue is negligible, a rebuilt engine will be horrendous but is that a realistic concern? I would be more worried about injectors and their pump – 20k+ psi operating pressure has an impact. Usage cycle is more of a problem, if you don’t have a weekly highway speed trip to get the particulate filter to do a burn you shouldn’t buy a modern diesel.
Diesels are much nicer to drive than their gas equivalents.
That HVAC “rest” is nothing new. The 2004 Sprinter van I used to drive for work had it. And it was cool (warm!)
Interesting. It is a great feature and what seems like a simple idea to engineer and implement..
My 1988 E32 7 series BMW and it’s supporting partscar both had it but by the time they hit my pricepoint (4 cents on the dollar for the pair) the electric cabin
water circulation pumps were both seized.
Nice car you have there. And regardless of the overall image or perception of the VW brand as a whole, Touaregs have always been more on the ‘premium’ or ‘luxury’ side.
Compared to any domestic offerings, the fit, finish, and quality of materials is superior and compared to the Asian offerings, it just feels much more physically solid. – at least in comparison with Asian cars, I do not find that surprising in the least. While not on the same level as premium cars, I had the opportunity to compare a 2008 Toyota Auris that my then girlfirend (now wife) bought new, with a 2007 VW Golf that I had. I drove that Toyota on several occasions and hated it with a passion. Just about everything that is important for me in a car, was inferior in the Toyota design, ergonomics, general feel when driving. On top of that, the Toyota Auris cost about 1000 EUR more than a VW Golf would with the same type of engine and list of options (actually my car cost more than hers because she chose the 1.6 gasoline engine and I went for the more expensive 1.9 TDI). Fortunately, she later sold the Toyota and we bought a VW Touran (a shrunk-down version of VW Routan, to put it very simply). She never misses that Toyota and absolutely loves the VW.
In my opinion, VW cars (at least in the last years) just feel more solid and quality made than any other alternative from Europe and Asia (unless of course you want to spend more money then you would for a VW).
And regarding your town driving- I agree with Johannes Dutch, try to put it through its paces at least once a week if you do a lot of city driving. Earlier diesels were a bit more forgiving but new diesel engines with their DPF filters are really not that well suited for city driving. One of my coworkers has managed to destroy the DPF filter of her 2.0 TDI Golf with her city driving – it cost over 1000 EUR (almost $1500) to replace and for a 3.0 TDI Touareg, that number can only get higher.
Regarding the tires – if you live in area with winter weather (low temperature and regular snowfall), it’s a good idea to mount winter tires…
20,000 miles! Holy cow! It’s about time you started looking for your next extended test drive.
I drove an Audi Q7 with that same drive train, and yes, it is impressive. Pulled like a locomotive; the horsepower numbers are nit very meaningful in these high-boost small turbo diesels.
Enjoy; nice color combo, btw.
Quite a ride indeed.
Not that long ago there was an Audi Q7 6.0 V12 TDI. (500 hp-1,000 Nm)
“Mephistopheles’ Oil Burner” would be a proper description.
I’ve read that a brand new V10 TDI is on its way.
Glad your VeeDub experience has been a good one. I have been admiring VWs for 40 years. Just about ready to pull the trigger on a gas engine Jetta wagon.
I am a little more pragmatic these days and don’t want to pay anyone money to fix stuff that really should not be breaking in the first place….Still a bit leery of VW based on my experiences with my ‘95 Jetta and my wife’s ’96 GTI (not to mention the various horror stories heard on the web),
And that it why I haven’t pulled the trigger on one in the past. Too many horror stories of stuff breaking that shouldn’t break, like ignition coils and windows coming out of their tracks.
In the end Elk Mountain VW in Glenwood Springs had one in stock and was willing to drive it to the halfway point to meet us and do the deal in a Starbucks but would not budge on the price as they “had a buyer that was coming in tomorrow to buy it if we did not commit to it now at the full price”.
We figured out that they were actually talking with Elk Mountain who themselves seemed to be playing us,
… it was immensely satisfying when the Elk Mountain salesperson called three days later and said they were now ready to sell us the car as the “other buyer” did not materialize.
That scam must be in the book “what every car salesman must know”.
A few years ago, I was entertaining the thought of a new Mustang.
I wanted a V8, but not leather, which ment a base GT, which is rare. One local dealer had one in dark blue, and, as it happens, the husband of one of my coworkers is sales manager at that dealership. She called her favorite salesman at the dealership and transferred the call to me.
I started “I’m interested in the dark blue GT with the black fabric interior” He says “that one is being delivered to a customer tonight, but if you hurry down right now, you can see it”. Smelling a rat, what were the chances of someone buying the exact car that day, I demurred, saying I was too busy that day (which was true).
This dealer is one of many in metro Detroit that is closed on Saturday, so I mosied over to take a look see. The phone conversation had been on Thursday afternoon, so the blue one should be long gone by Saturday, but nope, there it sat in their lot. Looking closer, the plastic was still on the seats. All the stickers, including all the barcoded inventory and routing stickers, were still in place. That car had never been prepped for delivery.
Monday morning, I told my coworker “I think your boy is trying to play me”, which she didn’t want to believe. Monday afternoon, I got the call “you can come look at that Mustang now’. I again demurred “I have decided to wait until spring”…thinking to myself “you lying sack of slime, choke on it”. That car finally dissapeared from their web site a month later.
Yep, happens all too often. I know it’s totally petty of me, but I was smiling all day after the guy called me back and I was able to tell him that. I had all kinds of goodwill toward his dealership too, it having been the same place that gave me a bunch of washer line for free when I drove to Colorado the first time in my S4 ten years prior and my lines cracked in the cold.
Yep, happens all too often.
I suspect that all car salesmen are compulsive liars. I started seriously looking at the Jetta wagon last fall. Went to the nearest dealer, where I had had my old Mazda serviced years ago, which also happens to be one of the few in the area with a gas engine Jetta wagon in blue. The salesmen looked at my Ford Taurus X trade and started telling me “we can give you a really good allowance on the Ford because we have a guy here who knows people to like to sell Fords so we know we can move it quick”…meanwhile I’m looking over his shoulder into their used car lot, and there sits a Taurus X, which on further research, had been on their lot for months. His routine about being able to move a Ford fast was completely unnecessary.
That dealer still has that blue one. But the dealer in Ann Arbor has a black one, and I’m fine with black too. The $500 discount coupon I picked up at the Detroit auto show is good until March 27, but the Taurus X is starting to develop an intermittant hitch in the steering that sometimes indicates incipient failure of the valves in the rack, a $1000 repair, so it would be a gamble to wait until spring to grab the VeeDub
I know it’s totally petty of me, but I was smiling all day after the guy called me back and I was able to tell him that.
I woudn’t call it petty. More like “satisfaction of watching a sack of slime be hoist by his own petard”
As a fleet operator, I really have to admire the integrity of the bumpers on today’s finely engineered vehicles. I mean, when we had 5 mph bumpers, they were just so expensive to fix they weren’t worth it. I mean, such a little tap would have had no effect on them whatsoever, but in this finely engineered VW, I feel safe in knowing a small tap will only cost me $5000 to fix. Think of what one of those METAL bumpers would have cost to fix?
That’s the story, and we are all sticking to it!
You are correct. I’ve wondered about what would happen if I or someone else accidentally rammed it into a wall causing that kind of (minimal) visible damage. If it was not an insurance repair, would many people just replace the bumper skin and if it all lines up, call it good without repairing the damaged underlying structure? Very possible I assume.
Any kind of impact on these modern “bumpers” will cost a fortune to fix. You can try to line up the cover, but it never, ever works successfully. There is just too much stuff underneath that attaches to other stuff. Every wonder why insurance rates are so high? Well, when a small corner impact costs $5000 to fix (plus the damage the other car), the risk is spread around everyone.
Like replacing a popped airbag vs just the cover …
As appalling a figure that is, it does not surprise me. A few years ago I had a similar accident where I slid ever so slightly into the back of a Mercedes R-class. My car’s license plate and her rear bumber met, and my plate left a nick about the size of a fingernail. $1,100 later…
My Subaru Forester was rear-ended last winter, and the damage required a replacement rear bumper, brackets, muffler (the tailpipe was bent) and a lick of paint. The cost for a very reputable shop to fix was $2,400, less than half. Makes me wonder if the price difference is in parts or labor.
I have a small barely visible mark on my Citroen that was left by a woman in a Touareg her car has a similar buff out mark, big fan of modern plastic bumpers here and French cars designed with push parking in mind.
My favourite SUV, but I wish you had bought it in Night Blue Metallic. As a Jetta owner I’m biased, but VW’s conservative but handsome styling appeals to me so much more than the tortured sheet metal of its competitors. And that brown interior rocks, strangely enough VW Canada doesn’t offer it on the Touareg here. I can never figure out why the don’t standardize trim levels between the US and Canada, especially since the Touareg sells in a higher percentage here than below the 49th.
I’m a bit confused about the comments from some about making sure to do a highway trip a week to get the DPF going. My car does its regen often, though I do have freaked out coworkers when it continues doing it after I’ve parked in front of the office!
It’s not only the DPF. It’s basically about the condition of the whole engine and exhaust system, to prevent severe internal pollution (is that correct English for a completely “clogged up” engine ??) and expensive repairs. After warranty, of course.
I’ve seen a good sample of the newer diesels in commercial vehicles with both the 2007 and 2010 emission regimes for the US. Diesels are just emerging from a short dark age where the technology had to catch up the emissions regs.
The 07 stuff uses a big honkin’ DPF and lot of regen; they are very intolerant of a stop n go duty cycle, constantly cycling into regen status. At my previous job we had two Ford F550s with the 6.4 Powerstroke motors that were more or less in permanent regen mode while using 40-80% more fuel than a 7.3 or 6.0 PS.
The 2010 emissions equipment just works and has had no emissions related downtime AFAIK. Urea consumption on the 2011 Crane Carrier refuse truck that I profiled a while back clocks in a 1-2% of fuel use.
With the 2012 refresh the US Diesel Jetta switched over to a urea system bringing it into line with the rest of VWs line. The 08-11 2.0 TDIs will not age well, requiring a costly DPF replacement.
We bought a 2007 Hino and it was in regen at least 25% of the time and that was on the Saskatchewan prairie. It used at least that much more fuel. I think part of the reason was the ultra-low sulfur diesel was no available everywhere, so wide allowances were made.
As for light duty diesel, well, if you can buy a $60,000 SUV, you really don’t need to worry much about the extra $60 a month or so. It’s all about the torque these things have.
As with Mr Klein, he is very typical: he won’t have the VW long enough to have any real problems with it.
It’s not $60/month. As I mentioned earlier we use less than 5 gallons of DEF every 10k miles. The stuff costs $6 or less per gallon at Autozone for example. $30 total for 5 gallons divided by 10K miles is1/3rd of a penny per mile. I’d have to drive 20,000 miles in a month for it to cost $60. It’s more like $3-$4 per month. I spill more money’s worth of my latte’s every month. 🙂
Jim, I meant in fuel savings. The real savings over the gas doesn’t amount to a whole lot, especially with the upfront cost of the diesel, which is never available on the base model. I do understand why they are popular, it’s the the incredible torque rush these things have, but they don’t save you anything. And yes, DEF is cheap now.
Oh, I see what you mean, yeah. In the US the diesel IS available in the “base” model Touareg, the Sport. Of course it still is quite expensive in real terms and hardly the “base” such as what we’ve been exploring this week in other articles, such as the Rambler American 200. (I’m not sure about your market though.)
I experienced that regen effect on the multiple big yellow Penske trucks I rented to move the family. Wen it went into regen mode it was horrible, you lost most of the power and it took forever to finish the process and did it several times over the course of the 1250-mile distance. I have no idea how the trucks were maintained but the regen aspect was torture (this was in 2010). The VW does not do that, it is like driving any other car. I’m not even sure exactly how the urea thing woks, I think it just injects a little bit into the exhaust stream instead of having a soot collection tank that burns itself off every once in a while (I could be completely wrong here). I was a bit concerned about the issues that have been presented by some of the commenters, again, that was what I really liked about the warranty. And if for some reason it’s not covered by the powertrain or bumper to bumper warranties, those items should be classed as emission control devices which should be covered under that warranty which is almost the same.
I was getting 2.2kms per L in the 2011 International Workstar I was driving, linehaul though not around town no add blue though it was just old enough not to require it.
only thing i really don’t like is the wheels that one comes with for 54k those wheels are kinda lame. otherwise awesome vehicle. it is a shame that VW no longer offers the v8 or even the v10tdi anymore with this vehicle i just couldn’t picture myself living with such a large suv with such a small engine. but i guess it is good for our country/environment that so many people are willing to live with small engines to save gas.
Four hundred torques is a “small engine? ” No one would have said that in any other country, or in any other past decade. Forget about displacement- it’s not what you put into an engine, it’s what you get out of it that counts.
“Large SUV”? It’s no compact, to be sure, but it’s smaller than a Ford Explorer or Chevy Traverse, both which get by very well with only V6s.
Sorry to see that we are coming to the end of this series. I can’t say that I have really been tempted by one of these, but it is nice to live the experience vicariously (if briefly).
A friend tows a vintage caravan/travel trailer with a gas Touareg no problems at all the diesel would be even better for that kind of use.
Oh, it tows that trailer like a beast. The problem is our three kids and keeping them somewhat peaceful all side by side is just not happening. We are leaning toward replacing the van with something 3-row that is more powerful.
I wish VW would come out with an SUV just a hair bigger and cheaper but with the same engine. Kind of like about 10 years ago when Toyota had the Land Cruiser and introduced the Sequoia over here. Same engine, but 3 rows of seats (instead of those fold down things in the LC) and and least 20% cheaper. Not quite as nice inside or out but still extremely durable and more useful. I think there is a market, there certainly should be if VW is happy to only sell about 10,000 Touareg’s in a good year over here.
What I find amusing is how you make a nice little jab about Range Rovers being stuck on the side of the road, and then you go and buy a VW! Hilarious. Have you checked the resale value on Touregs vs. RR-S’s??
But honestly, it sounds like a very nice car and the 10/100 warranty is nice to have. Although it has been my experience that aside from auto trans the problems with VWs isn’t usually the engine as much as the expensive stuff around the rest of the car. It will be interesting to see how far that warranty extends past the actual powertrain.
I choked when I read $54k though. Even at 0% financing there is no way I could justify one. Thank God my wife doesn’t have a thing for luxury SUVs.
I love these cars but when the dealership said, we will only meet you halfway with the car or a guys is coming to buy it tomorrow, that would have been end of conversation with me. I would have thought, so you are telling me you will only meet me halfway to buy your car and you are selling it out from under a person that has agreed to buy it tomorrow??
Out of the four Lexus cars my family has ordered the agreement was reached over the phone with no money exchanging hands until delivery of the car, NEVER paying anywhere near sticker and they delivered the car to us from an hour and a half away. I have never been rushed into buying a car from them and when I did buy the German products when the sales person said, this is a timely deal or I have someone else interested I would walk, no, run away.
And twice when we ordered the car, having sold ours, the dealership gave us a new car (no charge) to drive while we waited 4-5 weeks for our new car. Yes, it would be fun to try a different car once in a while, and I love diesels, but we will get what we deserve when we leave the dealership we deal with. I am only reminded of this by your story. You worked more for the sale did the salesperson did.
I am not making this a spitting contest between cars but rather pointing out the difference in service to which I am addicted. No customer should be treated as you were. It was the tail wagging the dog.
My experiences in VW dealerships would, ahem, preclude me from wanting to do it again any time soon. Lexus really does treat you well, even when you are just looking.
I agree, it was nowhere near the ideal scenario. For a point of reference though, Glenwood Springs is a good 4 hour drive including an 11,000ft pass drive from our home, so the halfway thing would have worked fine for us. I have no idea where you live but between us and G.S. there are at least five other VW dealerships, none of which had what we wanted in stock. In the end we wanted the car, there were less than a dozen available, and three days later the financing may well have changed the parameters for good. I didn’t buy it from that dealership in the end as you’ll note. I did deal with the dealership that was hugely accommodating (as they should be). As a side note, that was NOT my closest dealership which I do use for service and questions. So far, they have been excellent to deal with and no issues with my having bought the car from a different dealer.
Lexus does an excellent job with their service, they do get it. Kind of like Nordstrom. I think VW’s biggest problem in regard to servicing their clientele and some of their sales tactics is their overall demographic. The Touareg is the most expensive product they sell by far, and probably twice the cost of the average sale. In terms of number of units sold per dealer, it is miniscule relative to their bread and butter. Audi does it better than VW, and that relationship is similar to Lexus vs. Toyota. There are some great Toyota dealers, but there are a lot that are also very high pressure, presumably also when you want to buy an $80k Land Cruiser.
You are still acting as if they are doing you some kind of favor when you say a dealership doesn’t give you a problem although you bought the car from another dealership. The dealership is paid for the warranty work. Any dealership that would say any different is trying to pull something.
Also remember if the deal is presented as time is running out, just have them order you a car. I think sometimes there is an advantage to dealing on a car that is not part of their inventory and does not exist.
You get my point; you are the customer, it’s your money and his commission. It’s your money, you hold all the power.
Great color scheme – my new Outback is white with a brown interior Very classy. I’m sure your leather is much nicer than mine.
What a great vehicle – simple, pure design lines. Personally I think the diesel is the only way you can justify a 5000 lb VW.
If I understand correctly VW is introducing a 3 row crossover next year based on the Passat chassis. They SHOULD also bring out a Touran-sized mini-minivan styled like the modern concept they showed a few years ago…that was certainly an opportunity missed. At last week’s Houston auto show, it was sad to see the VW area as unloved as the Nissan and Infinity areas…people poking around, but nowhere near the crowds for the other manufacturers. VW simply must find that sweet spot between quality, design, and experience. Their reliability rep is slowly climbing; the dealer experience unfortunately lags behind, like they didn’t get the memo about the competition eating their lunch.
BTW my wife is on her 4th rear bumper cover. People LOVE smacking the back of her Edge.
$55,000 for a volkswagon…Ha! You got scammed. Let us know how great it feels in about 4 years when the thing is worth about $15K.
You should have gone for the jetta wagon. Or a Subaru…and pocket the difference.
I’m glad I didn’t see this comment back when you wrote it but it’s exactly the type of comment that makes people not want to write anymore. I don’t know if you were having a bad day, enjoy being a jerk, or are/were jealous of something or other, but it’s a small-minded comment and you come off like an ass. Maybe I can afford to blow money on cars like they’re candy, or maybe I worked my ass off to earn the money to afford to pay for this and everything else I own and enjoy, or maybe I stretched myself to pay for it, either way, whatever the reality, you have zero idea of how that came to be and I certainly didn’t ask for your car buying or financial advice in this post.
And sure, a Jetta or a Subaru are exactly analogous to this for half the money. Sure. I’ve owned both. Let me know what you’re driving and I’ll point out a couple of “better” solutions for you as well…
Bravo Jim.
Well said. I’m glad your ownership experience was a good one; just a shame it had to end with a problem entirely of VW’s making.
(Different “Paul” than the one who left the snarky comment, btw.)
I got the wife a ’13 Jetta tdi Wagon. 2 1/2 years and 65K miles later, the daughter got it (son-in-law is a better description) and there’s a new Camry in the garage. We never experienced any real problems with the Jetta, but Mrs. Bear never really bonded with it either. Tolerated it would be a good description. She doesn’t talk much about it, but when she saw her first Atlas in the wild not long ago, her only comment was “too bad it’s a VW.”
Kudos to your daughter for being aware of corporate malfeasance at her age. Ten years ago I would have held similar views, but I’ve since learned that pretty much every automaker has at least one skeleton under their closet. Plus, Dad’s 2016 Passat has endeared itself to us even more after its sixth month in our fleet. I still can’t believe a mid size can average about 38 mpg on a regular basis.
At some point VW will come out with an alternative energy Atlas. It’ll be interesting to see how it stacks up to the Touareg’s diesel powertrain.