6:00 am Saturday, last October. My son Josh and I are boarding a Southwest flight at Baltimore Washington International Airport for a one-way trip to Memphis via Dallas. I’m bleary-eyed because my flight home from San Francisco Friday night arrived late. I’m operating on less than two hours of sleep.
Flashback to eight days ago. My wife Debbie and I are enjoying a pleasant afternoon strolling along the canals of Venice Beach, California. Really – it has beautiful canals. My phone rings and it’s a Fiat dealer in Memphis calling back in response to an email I’d sent them the night before. Betty, the salesperson, asks what I’m interested in with her friendly Southern accent. She’s a little taken aback when I respond with a serial number for one specific car and tell her I want to close the deal before I hang up.
I fly weekly so a little turbulence doesn’t bother me, but descending into Dallas the severe weather moving through Texas is providing quite the thrill ride. We land safely, of course, and after a quick breakfast hop on our connecting flight to Memphis. By 11:30 am we’re at the dealer in Memphis. An hour later Josh and I begin the 830-mile drive home in our brand new Fiat 500L. Our route through Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, Virginia and finally back to Maryland is largely rural and quite lovely on this Fall day. Seventeen hours later, with only a couple of stops to nap, we’re back home.
If you’re not familiar with the Fiat 500L you’re not alone. Including the one I bought, Fiat sold 293 500L’s that October. That’s only 34,488 less than the number of Toyota Camrys sold the same month. In the words of David Byrne and Talking Heads, “Well, how did we get here?” Why was I purchasing a Fiat and, more importantly, why was no one else? Why was Fiat’s US comeback failing so spectacularly?
Let’s answer the easy question first, why a Fiat for me and a 500L at that? If you, faithful CC reader, have sampled only a handful of the first fifteen weeks of this COAL (and thankfully for all concerned this is the last!) the question answers itself on multiple levels. Yes, I owned a couple of Fiat 124 Spiders back in the day. More to the point, though, if a car is funky, under-powered, under-loved and generally ignored by most Americans it will make my short list of cars to buy. Let’s not forget this, that or the other.
The Fiat 500L (with the ‘L’ standing for both Large and Lounge) is Fiat’s ‘big’ offering in North America. It’s 23” longer than the diminutive 500. Depending on your point of view the 500L is either an MPV, a crossover, a five-door hatchback or, my preference, a small but tall wagon. Despite its nomenclature, the 500L is not based on the Fiat 500. Instead, it shares its underpinnings with the slightly larger Fiat Punto which is not sold in North America as well as some Opels (more on this General Motors connection later).
Heritage is everything. When you hear Porsche you think “Stuttgart”. Ferrari, Maranello. Yugo? That’s right, the 500L is assembled in Serbia, formerly part of Yugoslavia, at the same factory where the infamous Yugo was made before notoriously poor quality and the brutality of the Yugoslav wars brought that endeavor to an end in the early 1990s.
I was attracted to the 500L by its roominess. My wife and I had been doing a lot of biking the past few months and noticed that transporting two bikes was challenging (but possible!) in the back of my MX-3 or her TT. When we wanted to take the tandem, though, we had to borrow the Subie wagon from our son Josh. For a small car the 500L has loads of room. In the front there are upright seats and plenty of elbow room. The second row sits slightly higher to give its occupants a good view and the leg room is generous.
When you really need to haul stuff the rear seats fold flat or tilt forward.
No one would say the interior of the Fiat is plain. Despite rather pedestrian materials, it screams Italian with its seemingly oversized steering wheel, climate control knobs and shifter.
The thing that really makes the interior stand out, though, are the see through A-pillars which in my mind are reminiscent of the view from the cockpit of a Boeing 737 (If the cockpit of the 737 had been designed by Italians). Combined with the optional full-length moonroof in my 500L the view from the interior becomes almost epic in its scope.
My 500L is actually a three pedal six-speed manual in Verde Bosco Perla (Forest Green Pearl) and therein lies the tale. Searching for just the right car I went to the ‘Build a Car’ page on the Fiat website. I wanted the Urbana Trekking trim level which, per the marketing people, combines the outdoor adventure look of the Trekking edition with the matt black trim and wheels one needs to survive in the urban concrete jungle. Go figure. The addition of the moonroof sealed the deal. “Click here to find your car”, I was told. With the manual transmission a “must have” for me, there was nothing nearby. Expanding my search nationwide there was one car that was an exact match and nothing else that even came close. Memphis.
One other thing I noticed was that there was a nationwide inventory of almost 2,200 500L’s – a seven- and-a-half-month-inventory based on the car’s tepid monthly sales – not a good sign for Fiat as anything above two months is considered high. But before we go down that road what’s the 500L like to drive?
It turns out the drive is perfectly fine. Although it uses the same turbocharged 1.4-liter 160 horsepower engine found in the 500 Abarth, the 500L’s larger size, toaster shape and greater weight dictate acceleration that is adequate for daily driving but will never be mistaken for being in performance territory. You end up shifting a lot which is fun if you’re climbing a two lane twisting road in Vermont but a little annoying if you’re on a freeway and heavy traffic is yo-yoing the prevailing speed between 55 mph and 75 mph.
Handling is a similar story. At moderate speeds it entertains, but under “moose test” conditions the Fiat will give you a passing grade, but with just enough of a kick to raise your eyebrows a tad.
Nonetheless, the Fiat has become the default go-to car for Debbie and me. Its comfort and space, and the view, make long trips a pleasure. In six months we’ve managed to rack up just over 8,000 miles with several long trips besides the car’s maiden Memphis marathon.
But what of Fiat? Can it succeed in North America? And what of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA)? How long before Chrysler once more finds itself on the ropes and for sale?
Honestly, the Fiat brand wasn’t really that successful the first time around. Yes, we car guys of a certain temperament and age fondly remember the 124 spider, the X 1/9 and the original Fiat 500, but Fiat was a niche player at best on this continent before poor quality caught up with it and forced its withdrawal. Even during those cycles when the US was embracing fuel efficient small cars Fiat could never really compete with the quality and mass market appeal of Toyotas, Datsuns and Hondas. If an automobile manufacturer wants to build a sustaining presence it has to shoot for best of class and Fiat has never done this. With the exception of historical strength in Southern Europe and Brazil Fiat has always played in the relegation zone and that brings us to Sergio Marchionne, the President of FCA.
Marchionne took the helm of Fiat in 2004 at a time when Fiat had lost a third of its European market share in four years. He famously returned the Company to profitability within two years. His secret? At the end of 2004 he forced General Motors to give him $2 billion dollars to settle a messy divorce.
Only four years earlier, General Motors had paid $2.4 billion for a twenty percent stake in Fiat to preempt DaimlerChrysler (Chrysler!) from doing the same. The end game was likely an eventual merger and to assure that GM was a serious suitor Fiat negotiated a ‘prenup’ that would make it expensive for GM to walk away. The planned sharing of technology did not work out although it did result in the development of a shared GM/Fiat small car platform that, yes, underpins my 500L. The $2 billion payout gave Fiat the breathing room it needed to recover and regroup, and Marchionne’s direct management style and decisiveness did the rest in the short term.
An attorney by training, Marchionne is obviously a deft negotiator. In 2009 when Chrysler had fallen into bankruptcy and ownership had defaulted into the hands of the US, Canada and the United Auto Workers he negotiated the purchase of 20% of Chrysler. Over the next several years Fiat gradually bought out these other shareholders until it had 100% ownership in January of 2014.
Marchionne moved rapidly to integrate Fiat and Chrysler. In the US, besides the re-introduction of Fiat, he brought over an Alfa Romeo sedan and rebadged it as a Dodge Dart thus offending both Alfa and Dart fans. The car has proved to be an also ran in its category and after less than two years FCA has pulled the plug on it. In fact, FCA recently announced that they are getting out of the small car business completely and will look to rebadge and sell small cars made by others. Put another way, the company formerly known as Fiat is getting out of the Fiat business. Sure, a small number of us look forward to the stylish return of the new 124 Spider, but we know in our hearts that it’s a Miata with an Abarth engine. My guess is that, despite the extra horsepower of the Abarth engine (My 500L engine), the 124 will suffer in comparison to the less powerful but much more refined Miata powertrain.
The renamed FCA has thrived due largely to the resurgence of Ram trucks and, especially, Jeep SUV’s. High debt and the continued weakness of the Fiat brand has left FCA with inadequate funds as it struggles to develop its next generation of cars. Many fear that FCA is only one mild recession away from bankruptcy.
Marchionne has spent the last couple of years looking for a white night to purchase FCA and has been firmly and publicly rebuffed by everyone he has approached. The lesson for the automotive industry is that you can’t deal your way to being a top tier manufacturer. Success is a long-term journey based on commitment to making World class cars and implementation of a thoughtful strategy on a consistent long-term basis.
And the final affront for those of us who love cars? Ferrari – formerly the crown jewel of Fiat (and a huge money maker). Fiat spun off the fabled marque last year to raise cash. In preparation for the public stock offering Marchionne forced out long time Ferrari chairman Luca Cordero di Montezemolo who had made Ferrari the profitable World class brand we’re all familiar with. Marchionne wanted to significantly increase production and Montezemolo believed such a production increase would ultimately dilute the brand. Marchionne needed someone he could trust running Ferrari so he installed himself. Ferrari stock is down 30% since it went public, but Marchionne has an updated plan. He wants to double down and further increase production. Last week the president of Ferrari retired. Once more Marchionne is looking for a top talent to take this number two position. The betting is he will select himself to fill this role as well.
All this turmoil and tribulation assures one thing and one thing only – My little Fiat will continue to be a rarity. Forty years from now, Paul Niedermeyer’s android avatar will be walking down a side street in Portland and will spot a 2015 Fiat 500L behind a chain link fence tucked between a 2025 Googlemobile and a 2031 Apple transit pod. He will engage his image capture function sending an instant notification out to a small cadre of Luddite petro-heads who will immediately flip the switch on their virtual reality implants and follow along as he tells the story of Fiat.
As mentioned above, this is the end of my COAL series. Thanks to all for your comments these past few months, to Paul for creating and cultivating the Curbside Classic community, and to my wife Debbie for playing along with my automotive indulgences all these years.
Last Week – Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, Have You Reached a Verdict?
Total Fiat-head here, but not convinced by the 500 diffusion bodies. I’m glad you like it though – and particularly that you bought it through a deliberately contrarian stance – so I hope for continued happy driving for you.
And what of the TT? Best time to sell would be straight after any work to the car but maybe you’re taking the door ding as a sign to keep it?
Not so much a ding as a loud clang. The estimate was $1,200 and it will be done next Thursday. I’m leaning toward saying good-bye to it but, of course, vacillating.
Does the pope own one of these ? He was riding in the back of one when he was visiting the U. S., right ?
The 500L’s 15 minutes of fame. When the Pope’s plane landed at Andrews Air Force Base last fall Italian Embassy staff picked him up in a 500L so, yes, a sort of Popemobile, junior grade. During his trip he rode in two of them one of which was sold for $82,000 with the proceeds going to charity.
Sigh… The sad sad story of Fiat. At one time here in Austria a main player on the small car sector, it is now selling less than Hyundai and Skoda and really most of those sales are generated by the 500 – not a healthy situation. I said it before and, at the risk of repeating my self ad nauseam, I believe it’s a result of what I call the “Capo Syndrom” all Italian companies suffer from, to a greater a lesser degree coupled with bad dealers. It cannot go on like this forever, and I can see a situation in which Fiat moves out of making cars to concentrate on its other interests – maybe not this or next year, but I see a lot of parallels with Studebaker…
I saw one of those Fiats at my granddaughter’s school last week. Made me curious. Nice to read about it. My experience with Fiats is “iffy”. I married into a 124 hardtop that caught fire on me and I had to dig my infant son out if the back before it could go up in flames. But I was young and undeterred. A few years later, I bought a 4 door Brava, joining a cousin who also had one. At 6-4, I was really too big for the car and eventually bought a Buick Regal, which solved the comfort problem. But I was satisfied with my Brava. It had a certain style and sophistication to it. Memories…
What a great choice for a contrarian like you. I think the engine might be a 1.4 turbo though. That you were actually able to fine a manual 6sp is just icing on the cake. With only one in the country the dealer might have been difficult to deal with. No dealer would have wanted to take an order with so much inventory.
A while ago, Paul told us about his experience with the automated manual and found it less than smooth. You mentioned that the manual requires frequent shifting in the 50-70 range. Do you think the 6sp torque converter auto might be smoothest or do you think a displacement or turbo boost bump might be the answer? Just the way it is also works.
How do you rate it compared to the Mini Countryman? That might be the only competitor.
I was burned when Saab packed it in and left my 2011 9-5 without warranty, roadside, free maintenance, or even a spare tire. The Chrysler connection will save you from such a fate but I would have wanted a big discount to make up for the eventual hit on resale.
I have really enjoyed your COAL series.
1.4 liter is right. Corrected, thanks. I think the sixth gear is just a little high and it would be fine with five. The move to six speeds for a lot of cars is really about tweaking the mileage rating. In our TT (which can stay in sixth all day) for example, the non-quattro FWD versions were available with a five speed manual that has the exact same gearing as our six speed, just one less.
Oddly, the new Honda Fit has a 6th gear with the same OTGR as the 5th in the old five-speed despite being buzzy at speed being one of the few things the older models were dinged for.
Very nicely written piece, I enjoyed it.
I can’t fathom why anyone would buy a Fiat other than the cutesy little 500 models. I am turned-off by the look of the 500L and simply can’t figure out what niche the 500X is supposed to fill.
Contrarian car purchases used to be fun and interesting to me, now I have too much going on, and am content to just lease black or silver Hondas and be done with it….more power to the author for doing his own thing, automotively, I can live vicariously through his adventures.
“You end up shifting a lot which is fun if you’re climbing a two lane twisting road in Vermont but a little annoying if you’re on a freeway and heavy traffic is yo-yoing the prevailing speed between 55 mph and 75 mph.”
Yup, that right there will keep me out of one here in the mountain west. That would get really tiresome driving the the hundreds of miles to Anaheim, CA with the Disney-heads in my life.
Michael, Great series. You certainly aren’t afraid of non-appliance appearing automobiles. Actually quite daring considering Consumers Report’s latest ratings (they put Fiat dead last). But in the early 1970s I followed CR’s advice and regretted it, so your way has a good live-life-well vibe to it.
$2B prenup! Now that’s good negotiating!
I too would like a Fiat, but the dealer in New Orleans folded shop 18 months ago, Baton Rouge shut its doors 6 months ago, and Pensacola packed it up in Dec of last year.
That leaves me dealers in Houston or north Louisiana (300+ miles away). There is talk of allowing local Dodge-Ram-Jeep-Chrysler dealers to sell Fiats at the far end of their showrooms as opposed to the separate Fiat studio ($1M investment). Still a risky investment.
For now, I’ll settle on a die cast copy of a red FIAT 500 sitting on a bookshelf in my spare room dreaming of the fun times behind the wheel.
Ciao!!! 🙂 😉
The Other Michael has had one of these since 2012 and loves it.
The loss of a Fiat dealer anywhere near NOLA has proved to be a huge annoyance for my niece, who has a 500. She loves the car–bought at Fiat of New Orleans–and then they closed. OK, Baton Rouge is not too bad–but poof, now gone. I don’t know how long she will ultimately keep the car since the whole thought of being “dealer-less” makes her very nervous.
I was actually surprised the NOLA Fiat dealer couldn’t survive–initially I remember seeing a pretty decent number of 500s running around there. And since New Orleans is a pretty unique/quirky city, it would seem like a good fit with the Fiat brand. Oh well…
The problem with the NOLA dealer was that he was located on the west bank of New Orleans where people are more focused on F-150s and Silveradoes.
If he had been on Veterans Hwy (east bank), he would have been necesled between the Mecedes, Land Rover, and Volvo dealers which are making a living.
Plan “B” was to purchase a used 500 from Carmax Baton Rouge with an extended warranty plan. Supposely, Carmax will repair what it sells. However, when I called FIAT customer support, they said that only an authorized Fiat tech could work on the car and I was SOL if the were any recall issues.
For now, I’ll stick with my die cast model!!????
Seriously?!? They won’t do warranty/recall work through Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep dealers?
Fail.
Please post a few comments over the next six months regarding the car. I’ll be shopping for something to replace my Toaster by the end of the year, and this is very high on consideration. Yes, like you, I prefer the odd, different, and as far from a brougham as I can possibly get. I think this ticks all the boxes.
Keep your eyes on the used market as well. I was seeing used manual transmission 500L’s with 20,000 to 30,000 miles in the $12K range last fall.
Yes, I would like to hear updates, too. I’ve had my eye on these for a while…
Got my 2013 500c Abarth late last summer – and absolutely LOVE it. This car is rapidly going down right behind my late lamented Porsche 924S in the category of “favorite rides I have owned”.
And it’s solid. What convinced me to make the move was driving a stripper ’12 500 Pop with 122,500 miles on it. And that car was solid and ran wonderfully.
Thank you Michael. I really enjoyed your COAL series. Please keep us updated on your future automotive adventures. Does the “Other Michael” have similar car stories?
Yep, I have lots of somewhat similar car stories. Several of mine start with “After the car was totaled, I bought…” or “Since it would never run again in my hands, I sold it…” Michael has been much more focused on keeping his fleet ready to run than me.
From the sound of all the Fiat doom and gloom here, I’d better get something else soon. Debbie Downer has nothing on this string. Heck, I’m thinking of getting a new 500 when they release them with Android Auto and Apple Car Play later this year, but then I’d have to transfer my Abarth interior again and buy a bunch more Dynamat.
Great story! I especially loved how the cowl rubber seal is already falling off in the engine bay photo…
“Forty years from now, Paul Niedermeyer’s android avatar will be walking down a side street in Portland and will spot a 2015 Fiat 500L behind a chain link fence tucked between a 2025 Googlemobile and a 2031 Apple transit pod. He will engage his image capture function sending an instant notification out to a small cadre of Luddite petro-heads who will immediately flip the switch on their virtual reality implants and follow along as he tells the story of Fiat.”
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My belly aches.
You could always pair up the Fiat with one of these examples of the original “contrarian” line of cars, but you probably have to be from Illinois to get the joke!…..
Thanx Michael ;
I do hope you’ll keep us appraised with rolling up dates as to how well it lasts .
A Friend of mine is a serious Fiat Enthusiast (Hi Merkel) and I well remember Fiats from the 1960’s and 1960’s when I was growing up .
Delicate but oh so much fun to drive and cheap and easy to repair .
-Nate
Thanks for a great article on the 500L and appreciate all the insights into the FCA.
Glad to hear your positive words on you new purchase. I am always attracted, and, have gone for many so called underdogs in the automotive world, including my 2014 500L, same turbo 1.4 Abarth engine, but mine has the dual clutch automated manual tranny, which I really love… I know it has a bad rep, but, it is to me, the best of both worlds in that I can still have fun shifting but w/o the burden of a clutch pedal. And, BTW, my car has 28,000 miles with a year and a half of driving, and it has been 100% reliable, and I receive attention from people inquiring about it everywhere I go! I think it is a great car, very versatile, and makes me enjoy my 80 mile round trip daily commute.
All kidding aside, I’ve really enjoyed your COAL series, Michael. Great to get an American owner’s perspective on a lot of very non-traditional (for the US) cars.
I admire the brave buyer of the vehicle he wants even though he recognizes that the brand is dying.
My own fear of a corporate bankruptcy/abandonment of the US market/loss of dealers for service has scared me completely away from a brand with different but still serious problems – Volkswagen. I’d like to buy a gasoline Golf wagon but I am terribly skeptical of the future of VW in this country. I don’t have the guts to buy the nice VW I want. For me buying a Fiat, if there one I wanted, would be a step beyond even a Volkswagen.
So good luck and may you beat the odds.
I’m losing confidence in VW’s corporate future myself, but that wouldn’t deter me from a purchase now. The big difference between VW and Fiat stateside is VW’s huge existing infrastructure of trained mechanics and independent parts sources. If VW dried up and blew away tomorrow, those mechanics would still be fixing cars, working independently (often your best option in mechanics even now). Meanwhile, Fiat owners would be out beating the bushes to locate the couple dozen people who knew how to fix their cars. And ordering parts from Italy, which is no longer the big deal it was before the internet.
I think this is a great time to buy a VW, if you can buy low and keep the car a long time.
Loved reading your COAL. You really are a wonderful wordsmith, Michael. And I completely agree with your assessment of Signor Marchionne. Just another litigious hustler who promises way more than he can ultimately deliver.
Michael, I think FCA is toast and ol’ Serg is the reason.
Look at what you wrote about Ferrari: “…Marchionne needed someone he could trust running Ferrari so he installed himself.”
Now I’m just a stupid radio personality that happened to spend 3 1/2 years co-owning an advertising agency. But I learned much about how the wealthy think during my advertising years. “Increase production” inevitably translates to “more common”, an automatic turnoff for those who would shop Ferrari; the brand’s mystique, borne, at least in part, of exclusivity, is part and parcel of the car itself.
When Fiat rolled out the 500 with a series of Jennifer Lopez TV spots based around the video for her attempted comeback to the Top 40, “Papi”, the Pop station in our radio cluster took interest. Talking with a co-worker from that station about the video, J-Lo, and Fiat’s attempt at a comeback, this 30-something mother of two, Equinox owner, not a car person, remarked…
“FIX IT AGAIN TONY!”
I’ve met people since, who adore their 500s and their variations.
And it’s true…Hyundai, Kia, Samsung are all examples of successful brand rehabilitation.
But conversely, the story of GM’s 30-year downfall to bankruptcy is also well known.
I think Mr. Marchionne refuses to learn from history; instead, he must believe his “genius” will show the world that all the industry ever needed was him.
How else to explain starving existing brands of needed development capital to relaunch Alfa-Romeo? His incredibly sexist pronouncements about Mary Barra when she rebuffed his merger overtures?
I’m sorry Michael, but I’m going to ask…should Fiat even have been relaunched yet?
Looking back, might that money have been better used to improve the three existing lines? Why spin off Ram as its own brand? What perception needed to change?
Just a shame that a company with such a glorious, if sometimes goofy, heritage has been run into the ground the way FCA has.
But I think it’s about to become the Detroit TWO…and fast.
Depending on when you find this link, the blog may have been updated. If so, just page at the bottom until you find “The Fools On The Hill”.
http://www.autoextremist.com/
All this said, I enjoyed your COAL series and your vehicle choices. Hope you enjoy your 500L for many years to come.
Quick qualifier…no one predicting FCA’s demise believes Jeep will go away. Jeep WILL live on, and possibly (though I personally don;t see how) the Ram brand.
“I’m sorry Michael, but I’m going to ask…should Fiat even have been relaunched yet? ”
Almost certainly not in standalone showrooms with a single retro themed model.
You’re rant is missing a few key points:
Fiat HAD to introduce small cars to the US/Chrysler as part of its deal with the Govt. for the Chrysler bailout. The Obama administration was very big on that at the time, making sure Chrysler would be able to compete in the smaller car sectors, in which they had little or nothing to offer.
Fiat’s small-engine Multi-Air technology was a key part of the deal.
And regardless of whether you like Sergio or not, he really did save Chrysler. Nobody else was willing to step forward, right?
And what he’s done is little short of amazing, in retrospect. He was given very poor odds at making Chrysler/FCA profitable. But he’s done it, right?
And it was an outrageous/bold/gutsy deal, really. Fiat is a shrinking/sick/dying company, and by merging it with Chrysler, and a lot of clever deals along the way, FCA is now quite profitable, and worth some serious bucks, over $10 billion currently. That’s serious value creation, out of one sick company and one bankrupt company.
So yes, it’s easy to criticize Sergio for certain things, but introducing Fiat to the US was not optional. And if gas prices hadn’t gone into the toilet, Fiat probably wouldn’t be doing too badly.
Don’t forget, Fiat, with just the one 500, sold almost as well as the whole Mini brand, which is also struggling with low gas prices.
Yes, if Sergio could have predicted gas prices, he probably wouldn’t have required separate Fiat studios.
And regarding product investment, when gas prices are low, and everyone wants trucks and CUVs, it’s stupid to spend mega-billions on new small/medium cars, knowing that they won’t sell in volumes enough to ever generate a profit.
Sergio is a lawyer/deal maker, and thinks like one. So yes, he’s inevitably going to make car enthusiasts unhappy. He’s more concerned about his stock holders, and so far, he’s created a miracle for them, compared to what would have been the fate of either Fiat or Chrysler without his clever machinations.
He still has one major hurdle ahead of him, trying to arrange a wedding. If he can pull that off, he’s really a genius.
My concern is about product. First, FCA’s products have lived at the bottom of pretty much every quality index I have seen over the last few years. Second, almost every new product (outside of Jeep, anyway) has been a sales dud because it is unpleasant to drive. Both the Dart and the 200 should have brought huge increases in sales because they replaced models that were so awful. But every test I read bitched about the engine transmission combo that made the cars actively unpleasant to drive. Just like you did with the 500L.
The bigger stuff is doing OK, but it is all getting a little old (or more than a little old). The new Pacifica is going to be a huge test to see if it is possible for FCA to do a successful new vehicle.
Agreed. I wasn’t trying to exonerate Sergio/FCA for their many shortcomings. I just explained why Fiat was launched here. And the reason so many of FCA’s products are somewhat flawed is because the company has been capital-poor, and having to make compromises in its product development and quality control. FCA simply can’t properly execute so many products well; that’s not an excuse, just the reality of their situation.
I happen to think that there’s no way they can succeed in what is a dying segment of the market (sedans), and are probably better off for not even trying anymore. Hopefully it will allow them to put more money and effort in executing the rest of their lineup.
But any way you look at it, Sergio is walking a tight rope. So far, he hasn’t fallen, and the market shift to trucks and SUVs and the strength of jeep has been a big factor in that.
I don’t pretend to have easy answers for FCA. The automobile industry is going to go through a very challenging time in the next 10-20 years. Sergio clearly sees that too, and that FCA is not well positioned for those changes, which is why he’s so eager to see it merge with another company.
The automobile industry does not have a good record on return on capital, and Sergio is determined to do something about that. I wish him luck; he’s going to need it.
The biggest issue is that NO ONE would’ve predicted the Saudis would flood the oil market to preserve their market share until the exact moment they started doing it. (Because who does that with a finite resource, especially when it’s the only one you have?)
“Because they replaced models that were so awful”… precisely the “internet persecution” 67Conti mentioned below, JP. And one of the reasons I want to have one of these, Sebring/200 or Avenger.
Those cars initially got good reviews in 07-08 until the press and the internet started piling on. Better reviews after the overhaul of them when the Sebring became the 200.
They’re sturdily built [see Allpar for engineering details ], safety ratings were excellent until the new test the IIHS invented was implemented.
The new 200 ? I think that transmission would irritate me as well, but I’d have to drive it first to tell.
Reading the actual owners reviews @ various websites shows that while the “enthusiasts” are displeased, the actual buyers like their cars.
The current cars are dependent on transmission. The Dart comes with the Fiat manual, and a 6 speed Hyundai automatic as well as the dual clutch in the Aero only.
The 200 has the 9 speed which has gotten a lot of complaints. It’s the same one Acura uses and has the same problems in that application as well.
Most of what I have read is that they are not “bad”, just not class leading.
I get your assertions, JP. They just don’t resonate with the contrarian in me. It compelled me to dig deeper. The internet pile on piqued my interest.
I’d have no problem taking a chance on one of the last generation, or on the Dart with the Hyundai manual and 2.0 or 2.4.
The new 200 ? I think that transmission would irritate me as well, but I’d have to drive it first to tell.
Saw a 15 Chrysler 200 @ Larry H Miller Chrysler here in Tucson : $13,995.
At that price I might suffer the awfulness. The interiors are very nice.
My concern is about product. First, FCA’s products have lived at the bottom of pretty much every quality index I have seen over the last few years.
I’m not that crazy about the Dart’s styling, and the TV commercials were terrible, but I really like the looks of the 200. I don’t know if it’s FCA yanking the incentives or because Marchionne stuck a fork in them last winter, but Dart and 200 sales are crashing. Dart down something like 40% year to date and the 200 down some 60%
The 200 is built in Sterling Heights. The plant has been shut down as much as it has operated for several months, due to excessive inventory. A few weeks ago, FCA announced the second shift will be eliminated permanently.
Even CR hates the Dart and 200, ripping the 200 for the transmission, ride, touchy brakes, agility, access, rear seat headroom and visibility, while the car overall is rated dead last in it’s size category.
Interestingly, I think the Fiat Tipo is also very attractive. But it’s built in Turkey to make it cheap, and every road test I have read vilifies it for a substandard driving experience.
The Dart/200 may not be a one off mistake by FCA management, but a result of FCA’s marketing strategy. I suspect that FCA is taking the beancounter approach and, while designing an attractive car, they engineer it cheap and nasty and sell on price alone. Ironic as 40 years ago, Fiat owners were, partly, compensated for the service headaches with an engaging driving experience. Now, FCA’s intention seems to be to deliver a 1990 Hyundai: cheap, not very pleasant to drive, cheap, not very reliable, cheap, and most importantly, cheap.
Steve, the 200 was selling on incentives, almost as soon as it came out. As soon as they stopped sales started tanking. And then came Sergio’s comments.
Reviews outside of CR were encouraging.
But, yes: what you say is true. And it’s been true for many many years, if not decades.
Reviews outside of CR were encouraging.
Advertising dependent sources tend to gloss over shortcomings so the advertisers are not upset. You can read a glowing report on a car, then, when that model is restyled in a few years, the same mag will then report that “XXX which was really terrible in the first generation car is vastly better now”. I remember reading a glowing Motor Trend test of a Renault 17 Gordini, then, a month later, reading a test of, iirc, a Mazda RX2, where MT raved about the ergonomics, and then described the horrible ergonomics of an unnamed car they had recently tested. From their description of the unnamed car, it was obvious they were talking about the Renault that they had issued such a positive report on.
Somehow, British Leyland, overcame that “don’t offend the advertisers” bias and consistently drew blatantly negative reviews. Be it the Triumph Stag, Austin America or the Austin Marina, the tests were filled with complaints about shoddy build quality, incompetent design and crude, archaic components.
But, yes: what you say is true. And it’s been true for many many years, if not decades.
If it is FCA’s intention to build substandard cars and sell them cheap, I can, for a moment, understand that. Ford Germany and Opel both appear to be trying to compete with VW, providing technically advanced, good performing, well built, products. So Fiat is declining to compete in that market, but rather following Hyundai of 20 years ago and going for the cheap and nasty market as that market appears to be underserved? Thing is, cheap, nasty new cars compete with used models that are better built and better performing. No one has stayed in the cheap and nasty segment for long without either failing or stepping up their game.
I recall, when Marchionne announced FCA would drop the Dart and 200, he said something along the lines of they were “looking for a partner to build the cars for them”. I would read that as “looking for someone that would buy the tooling, then build the cars with a really low cost structure (ie China, Turkey, Vietnam) so the cars could be sold in the US cheap enough to attract buyers in spite of their shortcomings.
I acknowledge everything you noted and yet at the same time it reinforces what I said about “Capo Mentality”. Italian enterprises are, as a rule, very hierarchy-oriented and woe betide anyone trying to tell the big boss he’s wrong. It can work when you have a good man (or, rarely in Italy, a woman) at the helm (the obvious examples are Ferrari and Marchionne on their better days) but there is in many cases no teamwork – unless of course the Capo assembled a team to implement his scheme – and no constructive criticism, so when the boss makes a bad decision it can draw the whole enterprise into the abyss very quickly indeed. I work at a large Austrian bank which is a part of an Italian group (I’m sure you know which one it is) and see this every day, including the hollowing-out of the business and transfer of successful units to our Italian parent. And we are successful, not like Chrysler was before Fiat (how we got to be owned by the Italians had to do with politics – again, I’m sure you are familiar with that tale).
As for the comments below about the nastiness and unreliability of FCA’s products, again as I have in the past I can point to Renault’s Dacia, who offers cheap and nasty cars here in Europe but has grown in leaps and bounds on account of the cars’ reasonable reliability, so it can be done (I’m sure if the 200 and the Dart were reliable they would have not been the disasters they have been so far). The same applies to Skoda’s rise from being another dead, Communist-era joke.
This car reminds me of another vehicle in the FCA historical portfolio – the PT Cruiser. Both are cheeky retro takes on vehicles from the past.
So why was the PT a smash hit in its early years and the 500L a sales dud?
The PT was a take on American cars sold in the ’30s and the 500L a take on an Italian car that was never sold in the United States. Nobody in North America really relates to it.
The novelty of the 500L for North Americans was burned with the release of the 500. The entire theme was tired by the time this came along.
The PT had proven if cheap mechanicals that worked for the car’s price point. Fiat drivetrains elicit various complaints.
The retro PT proved to have no long terms legs. I doubt that even if Chrysler had been a stronger company during the PT’s time that they would have been able to figure out a true successor that would have recaptured the magic of the PT’s early days.
The retro 500 and its variants, apparently like the PT, Ford Thunderbird and now the VW Beetle, have run their course. It makes me wonder a bit how long BMW can keep MINI going. In hindsight, maybe the Fiat should have been sold out of CJD showrooms. The PT and Thunderbird and Beetle left / will leave no real collateral damage when their time was / is done. A bunch of empty U.S. Fiat dealerships could be devastating to FCA, both financial and in image.
Count me in the camp that actually likes this car. But, the sales problems are not hard to figure out.
Another reason for the 500’s failure: When the intent to bring it to the US was announced, fuel was expensive and anything small was a hot seller. Had this car shown up in, say, 2009, it might have gotten off to a hot start. But by the time it hit showrooms in 2011, SUVs and Crossovers were taking off again and the 500 was just a curiousity. And the situation has continued to deteriorate.
With a slightly different nose piece, the 500L would’ve made a very effective second-generation update of the PT Cruiser concept, if it weren’t for the fact that the public had turned on the PT itself by the mid-00s.
I had a 2002 PT, and it was the first thing I thought of when I saw the picture of the inside of the 500L with the seats folded down. The form factor was great – I once bought a pallet of ski boots at an auction and was able to fit all of them, plus a passenger, in the PT.
The reliability, not so much. I had a ton of electrical gremlins with that car – the gauge cluster went out, the transmission controller died, and the air bag light would come on when it rained.
The PT went from desireable to rental lot fodder pretty quickly. The 500L seems to have gone straight to rental fodder – the first time I saw one of these was a bright-yellow one that a coworker got one as a rental after his car was hit by a Prius driver who didn’t understand how turn lanes worked.
A very interesting vehicle. I had sort of tuned these out, and had never noticed that it was an entirely different platform. The windshield is cool indeed.
The specific configuration of your car makes it really interesting. Regrettably, there may be another 2 or 3 like it in the entire US.
I am sorry to see this COAL series come to a close. Your choices for the daily drive have been so far outside of my little world that they have made for both really educational and really entertaining reading. Thanks for the effort you have gone to in order to bring us along for the ride(s).
Michael, thanks for a terrific COAL series. I was instantly sold on you when you sent me your list of cars owned…and you’ve presented them all in an inspired and insightful way, and always with the right touch of humor and irony.
I’m rather attracted to the 500L myself; probably not surprising, given my tendencies. It’s an attractive package, and I wrote up my experiences renting one here: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/new-cars/cc-rental-car-review-fiat-500l-the-unholy-popemobile-or-fix-it-again-sergio/
My biggest gripe was the twin-clutch “automatic”. There’s no doubt that the manual is the way to go. If something happened to my xBox, I might seriously consider replacing it with a used 500L stick. What else is there?
And you’re right about the 6 gears: in a larger, boxier car like this, the 6th gear is just too tall for it. A 5 speed would have been better.
Thanks again for a great read and fitting finale. I know you’re a busy guy, and meeting our deadline while flying is no joke. Do you commute out west every week?
Thank you, Paul. It’s been fun and this “auto” biography is the closest thing to my life story I’ll ever write. I’ve been working on a couple of projects on the West coast and consequently commuting West three out of four weeks per month. During ski season my schedule was the following: On-site at clients Tuesday through Friday. Fly home Friday arriving late night. Up at 5:00 am on Saturday to drive to Pennsylvania where I’m a ski instructor. Saturday was a work day on the slopes, Sundays I skied with Debbie and Mondays I taught again before catching an evening flight out. One good thing about the flights home from the West coast on Fridays was that the time flies when writing the COALs. As you already know, several of these were posted while flying thanks to in-flight wifi. Thanks for putting up with my last minute postings. Procrastination so focuses the mind. Cheers!
One of their many mistakes was introducing it with the twin clutch automatic. I read somewhere that it was dry clutch rather than wet (or something) so it acted more like an automated manual than a regular automatic, which wet clutch ones can be more like. Some reviewers like Alex on Autos thought it was OK, just not like a normal automatic.
Anyway, now they have an Aisin automatic like a lot of cars, and do a couple mpg worse. I think the original 500 in the US always had a regular torque converter automatic, probably that one.
But like others have said, FCA’s biggest problem is reliability. Everyone else has pretty much figured it out. They have no excuse. The Jeep image overcomes the same quality shortcomings, at least so far.
And the design of the Dart was never good. They should have just slapped a Dodge face on the Alfa. They spent a lot on making a wide version of the platform and not enough on development. An Americanized Alfa would have cost way less. The 200 has a lot going for it but the shape just should have been more practical like an Accord. Both bad decisions by the design department and management. But it’s reliability that killed both.
Interior 2014 Giulietta.
But like others have said, FCA’s biggest problem is reliability. Everyone else has pretty much figured it out. They have no excuse. The Jeep image overcomes the same quality shortcomings, at least so far.
My theory is that Cerberus, having no real, long term, interest in Chrysler, cut engineering staff, probably the most experience engineers first as they were probably the best paid, so Auburn Hills has a hard time engineering anything up to a competitive level.
Meanwhile, Sergio, being a bean counter, has probably cut Fiat engineering. Fiats, for all their traditional fragility, used to have a reputation for delivering a good driving experience. Now road tests of several models complain that Fiats now deliver a sub-par driving experience, on top of the sub-par reliability.
They may be on a trajectory of cheaping themselves out of business.
When I was younger (quite a bit younger!) I was also a bit of a contrarian when buying my cars, so it’s nice to read about someone else’s similar experiences.
It’s “interesting” that with so many cars looking for buyers, you had to go so far to find “the right car”.
Like others here, I am inclined to believe FCA’s biggest problem is Mr. Marchionne.
I haven’t paid a lot of attention to “The New Fiat” saga, as I call it. I just assumed that Fiats were sold out of CDJR showrooms, and am surprised to read that dealers needed “dedicated” showrooms. It sounds like Fiat in the ‘states thought they could mimic the whole MINI experience with standalone showrooms and a whole string of models based on one platform (though I didn’t know until today that the 500 and the 500L were 2 different platforms).
While Fiat dealers are sitting on a mountain of inventory, what’s just as worrying is that CarMax also has a huge inventory of used 500s.
I would like to own a wagon like the one here, and I even went on Fiat’s website to configure one, but mine would have to be yellow.
Great series, Michael. Always happy to see another car owner that likes to go against the flow and prove that often the so called underdog is not really a dog, just a victim of internet persecution.
My Nissan Titan has been a great truck, and if you look on the forums 200-300k miles are not uncommon mileages on older examples with original engines and transmissions. I only have 15k miles on my ’04 example bought new, so at this rate I’ll wear out long before it does. Icing on the cake, it’s brown, er, copper metallic, a color the internet loves to hate as well.
And a 30 year (owned for 25 and counting) old 300k+ miles Mk2 Jetta with original drivetrain and still running well. Impossible. My uncle, aunt, friend, etc. owned one for 2 years 30 years ago and it was always in the shop. I must have bought the only good example in existence.
Enjoyed your series and choices. Too many today go with the flow and blend into the background with their car choices, a true CC’r likes to be a little unique in their automotive choices.
Your Fiat is a great looking, unique little car. Long may you run!
The Internet hates brown? From the sites I frequent, brown is one of the prerequisities of the Internet dream car: The $25K AWD diesel manual station wagon in brown.
They do love brown but only if it’s sprayed over a $25K AWD 50+MPG diesel manual station wagon.
Otherwise no go.
Great series Michael, I’ll miss it. Your cars certainly have been colorful, but your writing style could probably make even my plebeian cars seem interesting.
I’m one who hasn’t been especially attracted to the 500L, but the dark colors/wheels seem to mute the funkiness of the design. It’s not bad looking.
I’d still love to know what your bike fleet looks like and the backstory on that Paramount tandem.
The Paramount backstory – You may recall from early in the series that I did work in a bike shop for four years. In fact, I’m a “Schwinn Factory Trained” mechanic and have the certificate from 1972 to prove it.
My wife and I purchased the tandem in 1985. We were on vacation in Vermont and saw it in the classifieds. It was being sold by a bike mechanic in Montpelier. He and his wife were the original owners.
Our tandem is a 1979 which I think might have been the last year of them. Unlike the single-seat Paramounts which were lugged Reynolds frames, the tandem frame is closer to the Schwinn Supersport – traditional Schwinn lugless construction but still hand-built with chrome-moly tubing. The components are a mix. Campagnolo cranks, but Shimano deraileurs that could work more reliably on a wide gear range. Shifting is with “Schwinn Approved” Suntour bar end shifters. The front brake is a traditional Mavac cantilever, and the rear was a Phil Wood disc brake with asbestos brake lining! Both wheels had Phil Wood hubs. The rear seat tube is curved. Schwinn termed it “short coupled”. They used this configuration briefly in the late 70’s claiming the shortened wheelbase allowed it to handle and climb better. I’ve just had some new wheels built and am converting it to indexed shifters operating a 3×10 drivetrain. Brakes will be revamped as well.
Interesting, I didn’t realize that the tandem used a fillet brazed frame. I love the old Chicago Schwinn road bikes, and have a ’74 Sports Tourer and a ’69 Paramount P-10. They sure don’t have the component specifications of your tandem, though. It’s unique and beautiful. Many happy miles to you, on 2 wheels or 4.
Fiat is not doing well, Marchionne has focused on the US market and US brands. I cannot really blame him given the weakness of the Euro market in the last couple of years. Still, Fiat’s state is really poor:
Panda is fine but its introduction had been delayed multiple times by Marchionne
500 is very old and recent redesign has been very mild
500L is mostly considered ugly and except in Italy has not been a sucess – Serbian factory is very underutilised without any other model.
500 five door never materialized
500X doesnt seem to be a great hit
Tipo arrived way too late and doesnt seem to be competitive.
Punto is unbelievably old with no replacement in sight.
There is nothing bigger in the lineup except Freemont which is rebadged Dodge Journey, not exactly the best and newest of cars.
Furthermore, he killed Lancia by having just one new model in a decade and by rebadging Chryslers which nobody in Europe bought. Despite endless announcements Alfa is also close to death with just one product finally being launched after several years of delay. Guilietta is what close to 10 years old without replacement in sight. Fiat is not doing well in South America where they have been very big historicaly.
The bottom line is that the investments in European brands within FCA are not big enough – come next downturn I dont see them surviving unless bought out.
Exactly. You summarized the situation in the EU perfectly and your prediction is one I share. Fiat sat on past laurels too long and refused to accept what Hyundai and Renault accepted, namely we need to swallow our pride and start afresh with sorting out the basics, and I fear it’s too late now.
Thanks for a terrific (and terrifically interesting!) COAL series, I eagerly awaited the Saturday morning read every week. It was great to see someone owning a large number of cars that are well outside of the mainstream and having generally enjoyable experiences with them. Thanks!
Great article, and user comments, as well. It sure sounds like history is repeating itself as FCA follows in the footsteps of either Studebaker or AMC. I have no doubt that, forty years from now, there will be CCers reading about the rare Fiat 500L spotted in the wild the same way we fondly remember those other two quirky marques today.
I still think FCA can be successful (or at least profitable) here in the USA. They need to make some changes. First and foremost, they need to ditch the Fiat Studios. They are too few and to far from most folks. As the Ram truck has been spun off from Dodge to create its own brand of vans and trucks, why not consolidate and have Dodge Fiat dealerships? There is nothing that overlaps in the two product lines and that actually might make the Fiats an easier sale due to there being lots more dealerships to to service the cars. In my area the closest Fiat location is in Gaithersburg MD( Close to DC) and Owings Mills MD(close to Baltimore) both are almost 20 miles away from me (where there are several Ford and GM dealers much closer to my home) Having a dealership so far away could be a deterrent to some folks and keeps them from buying one.
That might allow more sales of the 500L (which I think is a better driving car then the Kia Soul (which I like also) )
I actually like the little 500 and find it very comfortable to drive . I remember when I first drove one, I thought I was going to feel like Paul in that Subie 360 but it was a total joy to drive and when the driver’s seat was all the way back, I could not reach the pedals.
I almost bought one instead of my Colorado but the dealer would not come down in price so I bought the Colorado instead.
I did not realize they were selling Fiats separate from the rest of the FCA vehicles – in Austria they sell Jeeps, Alfas, Fiats and Lancias from under the same roof. Rams, Challengers and Vipers are sold by specialist dealers though…
Fiats were once quite popular here with local assembly They even went to the trouble of building a specific NZ model to race the 125T, 68 were built few survive one can be viewed on the cohort, and Fiat faded from view not entirely but they stopped being mainstream cars and just became overpriced european cars.
My last two cars have been contrarian purchases, Nissan Cubes. The second one was purchased because the first one was so reliable and comfortable. It takes driving one to know that. Well Nissan is still there but the cubes are no longer sold here. Had thought the Kia Soul was the logical next purchase but Fiat has two cars that would suit me if they turn out to be reliable in the long term.
I was unaware of this car but it looks good. I would be very happy with a 2wd renegade but understand the 8 or 9 speed trannie is fragile. Will be watching to see what happens and, like Syke (as usual) hope you provide updates from time to time. The Cube is about to pass 90kmi which is the break in period for most Nissans I have owned. The CVT has held up and now you can replace one for less than the cost of a new car. We will see.
Thanks for doing your series. I have enjoyed it.
I enjoy the heck out of both my 500C (with auto) and my 500L with DDCT. Both are reliable, economical and the L is comfortable.
Here in Canada Fiat is sold at Dodge/Chrysler dealerships. I can’t imagine them surviving as stand alones.
I saw one of these on the road a year ago or so. It made me think of an updated version of our beloved 1986 Honda Civic AWD station wagon.
great writeup, michael. i was excited when i saw the headline for your article in my rss feed. we have very similar taste in vehicles – the difference being that you act on yours! i can’t pass by a fiat without thinking about the fun i had driving my father’s 124 spiders back in the day…
i remember paul’s rant against the automatic in these and was hoping you got the manual. check! my next thought was he better have gotten the moon roof. check! and verde bosco perla was definitely the way to go.
i think the panoramic moon roof is a must on a small car. it’s what changes it from being a cramped appliance vehicle into something i look forward to traveling in.
you implied that hauling a tandem was an important functionality for you. with a 6 foot wheelbase, I assume the inside transport of a tandem requires a conventional minivan or a honda element. can you out one into the 500L? if so, what kind of preparation/disassembly is required?
We transport the tandem on a roof-top rack with an extendable track. I haven’t tried it yet, but I suspect it could fit in the back of the Fiat (rear seats down) with just the front wheel removed.
For what it’s worth, with both wheels off we could fit the tandem in the back of a Toyota Corona Liftback that Debbie had back in the day. So a tandem doesn’t need a lot of room to fit inside, just more than an Audi TT has.
I’ve never been enamored with the styling of the 500L, but yours is probably the best-looking example I’ve seen–the green with the dark wheels actually works quite well. And the way they executed the wraparound windshield is indeed cool, perhaps the best design feature.
Also I’ve really enjoyed your COAL series. The range of vehicles you’ve owned over the years is extremely impressive (and in some cases envy-inducing), and you’ve written about them with humor and eloquence. Thanks for your contributions!
And the CC effect strikes again. I’d never seen a 500L in this green or with black wheels before, and then today, I saw your car’s doppelganger (except for the bike rack). You may have nabbed the only available one of this trim/color in the country, but there’s at least one other running around.
I don’t understand what is so objectionable about the styling of the 500L. The visibility appears fantastic. The console is minimal. The tail lights aren’t from the Universal Tail Light bin. It doesn’t look freaky like the Juke. Or the Encore. Or some larger two box offerings [Lexus, cough]. A nice box with some very original details.
Count me in as a fan of round headlights.
I hope you have many years of happy, trouble free motoring, Michael.
Save the Bay plates? I would have gone with the Ag Tags, the orange would go great with that green.