And now for something completely different! After a few months of research and some minor marital discord (that thing is a bus, have you lost your mind, etc.), I traded the 2016 Lexus ES350 COAL and the family 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee on this.
I wrote up the Lexus when I bought it just over two years ago, as a slightly used off lease car. I have never written up the Jeep yet, need to do that. There was nothing wrong with the Lexus or the Jeep, we just had too many cars and our needs as a family had changed.
The Jeep was primarily my older son’s ride, and he is in his second year at college in an urban area 13 or more hours away by car. His plan was to take it to college about two hours from home, but he got in a “reach” school further away and his plans changed at the last minute. He hasn’t taken it to school, and doesn’t want to. He finds cheap flights home for breaks, and uses ZipCar when he needs a car at school.
The Jeep was also used to pull the boat to the lake a dozen times a year, and haul trailers and ladders for our rental property needs (clean outs, painting, hauling mulch, trips to the landfill, etc.). We used it three times now to move him to and from school, but it was not enough room for four of us and his stuff (waist high dorm fridges seem small until you try to pack the car). We have some snow where we live, we make poor attempts at going skiing, and have about 200 acres of family land and tree farms, so it was the 4WD for when we need one.
With the addition of the View RV I wrote up, we needed a car to tow behind the RV. The Jeep cannot be flat towed (all four wheels on the ground) or dolly towed either, per the owner’s manual. It is 4WD with a neutral transfer case setting, but Jeep and the online sources I could find all say don’t do it.
There are workarounds to this, such as disconnecting the drive shaft or having a lube pump added to keep the transmission fluid pumping as you pull it down the road. But, I have no experience with either set up and for every person I could find who liked one or the other, another person said they had ruined a tow vehicle doing so. If anyone can talk about experience with either setup in the comments, I’d love to hear about it!
The Lexus was primarily my car and it had gone from 13,000 miles to right at 80,000 in my two years with it. Though I loved it for myself, it was cramped for us as a family (my sons are both 6′ 4″, quite a bit taller than me). It also did not work well as a tow vehicle behind the RV. As a FWD car, it can be pulled endlessly on a tow dolly, which I have. It can’t be flat towed without the added transmission pump.
However, it is so low to the ground that the chin of the front bumper won’t clear the dolly. I have to use concrete pavers to ramp it up onto the metal ramps of the dolly, if that makes sense. Doable, but something of a chore in the dark or rain (both of which seemed to present every time I tried this). Despite my attempts to avoid tight turns, the plastic dolly fenders rubbed and damaged the side sill cladding on the Lexus. The damage was down low and hard to see with the dark color of the Lexus, but we picked up quite a bit of damage in just a few trips.
In short, it was a great commuter car but could do nothing else for me. I had about decided to trade them both on a new Grand Cherokee, but that’s when I discovered the “no tow” problem. I looked at the FWD Jeep Cherokee, Honda Pilot and Lexus RX. They could be towed in their FWD versions, but we still needed a 4wD vehicle, and they couldn’t pull the boat. And so on it went.
I kept trying to find one vehicle that would be a nice/luxury car during the week for me, pull the boat and trailer (6000 pounds altogether), pull the work trailers and carry ladders on the roof, be able to be towed behind an RV, be 4WD with off road capability for the acreage and tree farms (where 4Low is needed in some mucky areas, what my father-law-in calls the “bog”)…
I keep the keys hidden from our 16 year old, though I’m sure he could handle it better than I can
…be able to carry 675 pounds of my new scooter and scooter rack (that’s another story for another time) and have more cargo room to move kids to and from college and apartments.
So this is what I came up with. A 2019 Suburban, available in base (fleet only), LS, LT, and Premier (called the LTZ in prior years). Yes, it’s big for significant commuting miles. But, with the advances in technology it is pretty easy to drive. Of course, visibility forward and to the sides is great.
Blind spot monitoring, lane keep assist, rear cross path detection, rear camera, front and rear park sensors that vibrate the driver seat when danger arises, radar cruise control, and passive emergency braking (such as when traffic stops and you are too slow to react) are all present. In 4500 miles now, they have all saved me more than once. I think all this tech has made me a much worse/lazier driver.
People knock the old timey column shift, but it frees up space in the center console, and is more intuitive to me than new rotary knobs or “static” shifters
It’s the closest thing we have in 2019 to a traditional, full size, body on frame American luxury car. It fulfills that role well. It’s quiet and oozes around town like an old school GM sedan.
Perforated leather seating, three zone climate control, heated power seats front and rear, cooled front seats, heated steering wheel, Bose Centerpoint stereo, heads up display, sunroof, power hands free liftgate, laminated windshield and door glass for noise control, keyless entry and keyless start, power tilt/telescope wheel, rain sensing wipers, remote start, auto high beams, HID headlights, seat/mirror/radio/climate setting memory linked to each remote, power folding on the second and third row seats, AT&T 4G LTE data ($15 per month for unlimited data, and it’s faster than my home or office wifi) and a dual screen BluRay DVD system are present.
It is the latest generation of GM B-Body wagon, if you think about it. A 2019 Custom Cruiser. It’s a mere two inches wider and a few inches longer than the revered 1977-onwards B-Body wagons…
…and a couple of inches NARROWER and SHORTER than the 1971-1976 B-Body wagons, which American parents flung around for years without cameras or parking sensors or any such nonsense.
I have no use for the DVD system whatsoever, but every Tahoe and Suburban I touched had it. It is bundled into a package with the Bose Centerpoint and the sunroof, both of which I did want. With a $500 package discount, the package is the same price as the Centerpoint and the sunroof a la carte, so I guess it’s there for free for the next owner.
The yellow tape measure illustrates the 20 inches you would lose in a Tahoe
About the Tahoe: well, I thought about it a lot. They have always looked a little stubby to me, like the proportions are just a wee bit off. But it would be easier to live with day to day, and it would do everything on my list just as well (except maybe the moving task). I found three Tahoes and three Suburbans at two different dealers, that I negotiated a trade difference price on. In all situations, the Tahoe was about $1000 less.
I decided for no more price difference than that, the Suburban’s extra 20 inches of load floor behind the third row was worth it. No one ever says “geez I wish my car could carry less cargo”, but as with the Jeep you can find yourself in a jam when you need more. And with the second row buckets in a Premier, we may find ourselves needing the third row more often that if we had a second row bench.
This is a quintessentially American arrangement: remove seats from the second row, necessitating a third row, necessitating a longer vehicle so you can carry your stuff.
The latest small block 5.3 liter V8 is present with the time tested 6 speed auto. Now called an “EcoTec 3” instead of a Vortec, it’s an odd mashup (to me) of old and new. Pushrods, two valves per cylinder, direct injection, variable valve timing, and fuel management (to make it run as a V4) all peacefully coexist. In a typical 70 mile commute of mostly highway, I am averaging 26 mpg, well above the EPA 14/21 rating. Since my purchase, I have averaged 20.6 overall, so I am getting the EPA highway rating in my 4500 miles of mixed city, country and interstate use. It runs in V4 mode quite often, if you pull up that screen on the dash. The switching back and forth is imperceptible to me.
This isn’t stellar, of course, but pretty amazing considering that it has the ability to satisfy all the other tasks I need it to. And for the size and heft of the vehicle (5,791 pounds out the factory door according to the build card I found under the seat, or 2200 pounds more than the Lexus) I really don’t see how it does that well. The Lexus averaged about 30mpg per tank in the same driving.
With the bargain priced $400 Max Tow Package, I get an integrated brake controller, Class 4 hitch, oil cooler, transmission cooler, full size spare tire, lower axle ratio, higher tow rating of 840 pounds tongue weight/8400 pounds trailer weight, and a two speed transfer case with 4Low and Neutral.
The optional case means Suburban CAN be towed on a dolly or all four wheels on the ground. The Neutral setting disconnects the front and rear drivelines from the transmission. It is too heavy to tow much with the View, of course. I think flat towing the Suburban at 55 mph down to the beach (a flat, half-day trip each way for us) would be fine with the right braking equipment, but going over the Rockies is out of the question.
The 6.2 liter and 10 speed Ford/GM auto from the Denali and Escalade are optional on the Premier Suburban, but I didn’t see the point. It has a little more power and the same EPA ratings, but the tow rating for the larger engine in a Premier is the same or 100 pounds lower than the 5.3, depending on the wheels. And, all the 6.2 versions I came across, anyway, had the $11,000 “Premier Plus” package which not only adds a whole lot to the bottom line, but some things I didn’t want like 22 inch wheels and power deployed running boards.
Discounting is pretty heavy on these, of course. I paid about 18% under sticker. It’s still a lot (too much, my wife helpfully volunteered), but it’s covering all my needs better than anything else I could come up with. ALL vehicles are more than they should be to me now, I guess that’s part of aging. In a world where loaded Pilots and minivans are close to $50,000, the Suburban makes the case for a lot more capability for a modestly higher price.
And, at over 6000 pounds gross vehicle weight rating, my S-Corp small business can expense (write off) the first $25,000.00 and one-half of the balance of the purchase price for tax year 2019. So in round numbers, I can expense $40,000.00. Assuming a 40% combined state and federal tax rate, that’s another $16,000.00 off the price I paid, effectively. If I didn’t expense it, that $16,000.00 would be going to Washington, so the money is gone from my hands either way. Might as well put it towards a vehicle, which brings this rig firmly below Pilot and RX350 prices (they are not heavy enough to expense in this manner).
EDIT: This is still generally true, but more nuanced and complicated than I thought under the 2018 tax law changes. Just didn’t want to spread misinformation. It actually, though, looks like I can expense 100% of the purchase price for this tax year, which I did not know, which is quite a rebate to myself.
Here’s an explanation of the IRS rule for anyone interested: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/50-bonus-depreciation-likely-extended-2014.html
I’ll write some updates when there is anything to report. I did have the front doors and windshield tinted to help keep down the heat, and after a few hot days parked in the sun, I can report that really worked. The windshield film is clear, of course, but claims to block 50% of the heat. The front doors have a tint to them, but are legal and not as dark as the rest of the glass. I think this will work well enough to avoid needing a windshield sun shade or “vent visors”.
We just need to work on a name……suggestions (be nice) are welcome!
First and foremost, congratulations on the new ride!
It’s an interesting comparison to two generations of B-body wagons. I bet it’s also similar to the “box-body” Suburbans of the same era.
Seems like it fits your use case well, especially the tax parts. I recall that (at least at some point) Rolls-Royce also had a 6000+ lbs. GVW, so it qualified for the same tax benefits. I think that loophole got closed later on.
That same small business loophole is the reason the mid-size Ranger, some Colorado/Canyons (diesel, I think), and certain full-size crossovers and minivans are juuuust over 6000 lbs. GVWR, putting them in the same category as Class 2A (half-ton) pickups and SUVs. Suddenly, it’s 1975 again!
For the use case you describe, this is quite close to perfect. I’d call it “Prefect” because that is also quite close to perfect.
Overall, I like how you think.
Like many of us, I have had a love/hate relationship with SUVs over the years. You have neatly illustrated why they are so popular: A high degree of flexibility.
Is it better to have dedicated vehicles for each purpose (a car for commuting, as truck for hauling, a Jeep for off-roading, etc.)? Perhaps, but few people have the means (or garage space) to maintain a fleet of bespoke vehicles. Like the old TV-VCR-DVD combos of yore, the SUV represents a compelling proposition of utility and cost-effectiveness that is “good enough” for most people.
I flat-out love these. I have been in the kid-moving business for several years (first colleges and now between apartments) and you are right – there is no such thing as too much cargo capacity. You speak of age, I remember when cars towed behind RVs were little Pintos and Chevettes. A Suburban as an RV companion is kind of decadent. But then if the RV breaks down, you can probably just swap positions and use the Suburban to tow it somewhere. 🙂
In the 90s I went with the less-common (and less expensive) big van because I wanted more cargo room and had no need of 4wd. But I was an outlier because there were probably 10 or 20 Suburbans (if not more) on the road for every Club Wagon.
I am amazed that this is narrower than the Big B/C body GM cars of the mid 70s. But you are right, this is no bigger than what our parents drove every day. And is this the solitary vehicle that GM has consistently done right? Other than the Corvette, I cannot think of another.
Name? You could call it The Burb (because it’s the size of some bedroom communities) or maybe the Bruiser Cruiser.
Mine used the ‘Burb as the nick name. One of my family members called it the Subdivision…
For many years, I’ve dreamed of owning a Suburban. Literally dreamed… and still do. Yes, they’re huge, costly and overkill for most things, but I still love ’em.
When we were car-shopping last year, I found myself wandering around a CarMax lot, and figured I’d take a glance at the Tahoes and Suburbans. I was shocked at the minimal amount of cargo space in a Tahoe. Even for the difference in sticker price (about $4,000, if I recall correctly), it seems that a Suburban would be a more useful buy. For the actual selling price of $1,000, it’s a no-brainer, unless your really need a shorter vehicle.
My dream Suburban would be an LS with the no-cost bench seat. Though I’m pretty sure that would have to be custom-ordered because I’ve never seen a dealer with a bench-seat Suburban in stock.
And that’s a good point about comparing the Suburban’s price to a loaded Pilot or minivan. If you can actually use the size and capabilities of a Suburban, it’s not too far out of line.
Enjoy the ‘Burb… looking forward to some good road trip stories!
I was curious, so I looked at Chevrolet’s website. There’s a 3rd row delete option, and it actually reduces the price by a whopping $4200! If you never, ever need a 3rd row, that’s the way a Tahoe makes sense. Even when folded, that 3rd row eats a LOT of cargo space. But a 2-row Tahoe is a thing I could appreciate.
I had no idea about the 3rd row delete option. I’d love to see how much that affects the cargo hold, because my recollection was that the cargo area was very shallow in addition to being short.
I wonder what the take rate is on that option, particularly for non-fleets (Tahoes are sort of a prestige vehicle for government fleets… for example most of the local governments around here have squadrons of unmarked Tahoes as take-home vehicles for mid- to high-ranking managers. I assume that most of these would have no 3rd row, but I’m not sure)
The PPV and SSV Tahoes do not have a 3rd row so yeah they have a pretty ample cargo area in my opinion.
Heck, the first Tahoes in the ’90s (GMT400) were 2-row only.
It’s the combination of the third row and a space-robbing solid rear axle. I am not ragging on a solid rear axle; it’s great, and it’s one of the reasons these GM SUVs generally last longer than their Expedition and Armada counterparts…but it takes up a lot of space. Indeed, the Tahoe is actually quite cramped for what it is.
I don’t understand why people say column shifters are dated. They continue to be used because they work and make sense.
Because it’s fashionable to scorn column shifters. Real car guys scorn column shifters; everybody knows that—why, just pick up any issue of “Car and Trend”, “Motor Track”, or “Road & Driver”!—and people love to feel like they’re in with the in-crowd. It’s just like pushbutton engine start/stop that way. It’s just like every other vapid, fatuous fashion trend that way.
Well said, Daniel! 😎
Because they are too old to go parking. Good luck getting laid with a floor shift and a console. Actually I’m too old to go parking too.
I think its because column shifters harken back to times that people don’t want to evoke in any way today. Column shifters inevitably bring up memories of giant, gas guzzling, longer than the average city block, impossible to maneuver, giant water beds that were popular eons ago. But, those cars are also thought of as grandparent cars and in our effort to not be reminded of the sins of our fathers and to get away from that, we all decided that it wasn’t cool to use anything that dear old granddad used back then, thus the column shifter went away.
However, car companies are still smart enough to know that people who buy the vehicles equipped with them, (Trucks mostly) are conservative in nature and unwilling to change to anything new out of fear of the unknown. I may present this as a negative, but I’m not, as the old adage goes “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. Besides, people do like evoking the past, so I’m sure some people (myself included) like column shifters as a nice little throwback to a time period they never experienced. Now, having had a car with a column shifter for a little over a year now, I prefer them over similar console shifters, but I’m also a weird little specimen of questionable design so don’t take my recommendation as the gospel.
I love column shifters–so long as the vehicle also has a bench seat (which the Tahoe/Suburban does, but only on the base LS model as a delete option). If you put in a full console, you might as well put the shifter there too. Of course, putting a full console in a vehicle wide enough to comfortably fit 3 across is a bit excessive IMO, but that’s neither here nor there.
Agreed Ted. I just bought an ’06 Impala LS, and one of the reasons I chose it was it had a column shifter and bench seat. All about the nostalgia for me.
My (now deceased) father bought the 06 Impala as his last car..my Mother now drives it….bench seat came in handy when my Dad went on chemo for multiple Myeloma…we had to get him into the car with a wheelchair..had a transfer board and used a towel to pull him in the rest of the way from the driver’s side…worked great. Also, reminds me of those ’40’s movies where people routinely enter a car from which ever side they are closest to…passenger or driver side…makes a lot of sense, especially if one door is hemmed in (too close to another car or maybe fence or some obstacle which makes it difficult to get in on that side). Maybe “fashion” car designers will eventually go back to thinking about utility someday, I sure hope so, but trying to buy a new car configured like this is just about impossible now. I drive a standard transmission car, but if I bought one with automatic, I’d much prefer the column shift and a bench seat in front. I just don’t think I should need to buy something the size of a Suburban (or a truck) to get the bench seat/column shift…but I guess the market says I’m wrong.
Count me in as one with a love/hate feeling about these things. Way too big, and just reeking of excess. But also very versatile, I like the current styling, available with real 4WD (ie low range) and based on your experience plus my brief exposure to a rental, excellent gas mileage for what it is. I also found the driving experience of the rental ‘Burb to be very nice, with seamless cylinder de- and re-activation. It would probably be a better road trip rig for our mountain bike, camping and off-pavement exploring than our Tacoma. But I’m pretty sure my wife would say no …
I received a 2013 version of the Chevy Suburban for an long weekend while my Ford Escape was in the shop. I had an easier time backing it into tight parking spots due to the rear view camera compared to the Escape with no such device.
My only issue was the gas mileage, somewhere between 16 & 17 MPG on the highway. Was happy when the Escape was released from shop!!
Congratulations on the new ride!
We rented a Suburban LT for our Labor Day trip to Cedar Point, Ohio from Southern Maryland as our old Odyssey, Green Gertrude, is suffering from advanced age related maladies. My wife had the same reaction, “It’s too big! Why didn’t you rent a minivan?” While a minivan would have been the practical choice, we ended up loving the Suburban. The ride, the room, the silence, and all the USB ports were great as we traveled with three teenagers across three states. My wife and I loved driving it! It was easy to drive and the visibility was good. Even the gas mileage was good. We had thought now that the kids are heading off to college that perhaps our days with a larger vehicle were over but now we are thinking maybe we’re not quite ready yet to downsize. I was sad when I had to return it to Enterprise.
There hasn’t been all that much to celebrate at GM HQ these last few years, but this, this event will surely get the corks popping and the bubbly flowing – Someone fled their Toyota/Lexus and came back to the Mother Ship due to (get this!) reliability issues. The double irony is that you are the guy who has no compunctions about rescuing older European rides such as Mercedes and V12 Jaguars and figuring out their various maladies and actually doling them out to your kids to use as trustworthy transportation, yet it is you who gets the bad low-mileage Lexus based on their most reliable Toyota model.
This truck really is what GM does best and as anachronistic a vehicle as it is in concept, it can’t be denied that it works. The best part is that you intend to use it as it was designed in all respects and I think the proof in that pudding is that you went for the Chevy version with the 5.3 and skipped the GMC, Denali, Cadillac, etc versions that may have a couple more bells and whistles but nothing that makes them more effective for you as you aren’t having to pick up your kids at elementary school anymore every day without fail. So you got to skip right over the “Won’t The Other Soccer Moms Be Jealous SM99” package. Hopefully you don’t take a hit on resale without that valuable, some figure essential, option.
Suburbans are pretty rare in junkyards (as opposed to Tahoes) showing they they are generally used up completely and then likely just shipped or towed across a border or an ocean to continue to be used. The junker Tahoes etc just serve as parts depots for them. The point is that they are long-lasting, durable, and exceptionally useful vehicles for lots of people.
Congratulations on the new ride and I look forward to the review of the new RV that is undoubtedly coming (so that you can be much more “efficient” while towing this one)!
This is GM’s core competency……big, front engine, rear drive, body on frame. The execution/outward appearance has just gotten taller.
I do hope it’s reliable. I don’t think that American makes really leave much to be desired in that area these days, honestly. The 2014 Jeep was dead reliable. Never an issue, still had factory brake pads and battery. Just gas, tires and oil changes, and it was worked harder than most Grand Cherokees for sure.
I thought you said there were no issues with the Lexus.
Did I miss something; I’m genuinely asking?
Jim is referring to an initial draft of this where I DID complain about issues with the Lexus, yes. I took that paragraph out because (1) the article was just too wordy, and I was trying to cut it down, and (2) the issues were not the main reason I traded the Lexus.
But they were disappointing: three failures of the turn signals of all things; both front door lock actuators failed, meaning the doors would randomly not lock, or refuse to unlock; and the entire time I owned it the stereo/nav screen would randomly freeze about every other week. At the time I traded it, it was refusing to pair with my phone, so that was a new problem.
That stuff would make me trade it in, chiefly because it hints at something expensive, like the body computer, failing.
I think the Premium Plus $11,000.00 package is the SM99 option…..
Yeah that extra space in the back of a Suburban is dramatic and why I’d go Suburban too. The President of the non profit I work for has an older one that I’ve driven from time to time and like you say they really aren’t that big when put into historical perspective. Definitely smaller than my crew cab 8′ bed pickup.
Though I do have to admit that I look at Tahoe PPVs at auction and think about picking one up and driving it for 6 months or a year.
The one thing that is annoying to me is the push to second row captains in all the upper trims, of the GM and the Ford products. Too me it is silly to have to use the 3rd row to carry 5 people in a vehicle that big. This summer I rented an Expedition L and apparently to hit the seat count and price point they have them all as XLTs. It was the cheapest way to carry 8 people that I could find at that airport, and it did it quite well.
It is hard to beat the versatility of a true Full Size SUV, properly equipped for its intended use.
What about “Pipsqueak”?
Yeah, or “Tiny” just came to mind as well…..
About two vs three-row seating. Don’t know if the Suburban, or any other newer car retains this feature, but way back when, I had a 2001 Chrysler T&C with second-row buckets. If you wanted to seat five and hold more cargo, you could pull the second-row seats, replace them with the third-row bench and carry on.
When I was a scout leader, I did that a lot.
Yes, that is a good feature, to rearrange the seating. I don’t think any of the seats in the Suburban come out. Maybe non power versions of the seats would? These are power flip and fold on the second and third row, so I don’t think they are going anywhere due to that added equipment, if nothing else.
The Premier has the second row buckets standard, but if it had a second row bench that would be fine with me.
Second-row bucket seats (e.g. “Captain’s chairs”) don’t make a lot of sense in this kind of vehicle, and seems to be contrary to its stated mission (to haul as many people and their stuff as possible). It reduces the seating capacity to six (seven, I suppose, if you have three really small and chummy people to sit in way-back seat).
Referring to something that I read in the “Ford Truck Owner’s Bible,” it stated that there is nothing worse than buying a new truck that is too small to handle your needs. Having a little excess capacity is never a bad thing. I’ll bet that there are many econo car fanatics out there you are gnashing their teeth over your choice. ( polar bears are weeping!) There has been a lot of progress made with fuel efficiency of this segment of vehicles. realistic 20-26 mpg. is pretty impressive. Emissions have been massively reduced over the years. Your new truck is probably cleaner than many econo cars from the early 2000s.
I guess that there are many out there that find it hard to accept the actual need for such a vehicle. Those of us with large, activity oriented families, home and property owners that are heavily involved in DIY home maintenance and repair, business owners that need to transport cargo and tow large trailers, boat and camper owners, and others that need the space to conduct their life’s activities, find these vehicles to be quite appropriate. Not that you have to justify or defend your purchase.
Can the Chevy Express do all these tasks with the two back rows removed? True the Express does not have four wheel drive and averages about 13 MPG.
Good question and you got me curious. Looking at the Chevrolet website just now, the base Express is a 2500 series with either a 4.3 liter V6 or a 6.0 V8. Plus the interior screams “commercial vehicle” which is exactly where it is found on the Chevrolet website.
For what it’s worth, we ordered two Expresses at work. Pretty basic although in 3500 series guise. The wait period was one year, which while it struck me as odd, the demand seems to have been that much combined with the factory also building the Colorado.
So, comparing an Express to a Suburban isn’t quite equal footing although capabilities undoubtedly overlap some. Comfort likely isn’t among that overlap. 🙂
Thank you Jason.
How does the Suburban stack up against the Ford Expedition Max?
If anyone has a new Expedition or Expedition Max, I’d love to hear what they think. As a clean sheet design, I would imagine the Expedition excels in many ways. I looked at them online but did not even go see one in person.
No one in my extended family has ever had a Ford product. There’s no reason for it, no hate for the Fords, it’s just one of those weird things. Lots of GM stuff, and 6 Grand Cherokees that I can think of.
I guess brand affinity extends beyond the Detroit pickup crowd! I know my whole family is “Yeah a Surburban, that’s an American icon”. Whereas with an Expedition they would have said “Why?” I’m pretty sure.
I did have a rental Explorer one time for a week, the just-ended FWD generation, and it wasn’t a pleasant driving experience. I couldn’t get comfortable not matter what I did, and that probably reinforced my anti-Ford bias.
I have no doubt that there are people out there who would feel the exact opposite on the GM/Ford thing.
Was just wondering since the Expedition Max seems to have much more modern features, such as four-wheel independent suspension and a 3.5L V6 Ecoboost engine, while the Suburban is definitely old-school GM with a pushrod 5.3L V8 and live rear axle.
OTOH, if the Ford is a whole lot more expensive, well, the Chevy is still okay for less money.
Just for the record, this Suburban does have 4 wheel independent suspension. I think the 1500 version lost the solid rear axle a generation or two ago, but the now discontinued 2500 and 3500 versions kept the solid axle. Suburbans have been 1500, independent rear only, since 2012 IIRC.
No, the Suburban still has a solid rear axle with a 5-link coil-sprung suspension, as does its Yukon, Yukon XL, Tahoe, Escalade, and Escalade ESV siblings. As a Premier, yours probably has the Magnetic Ride Control, also used in the Escalade and Yukon Denali.
However, spy shots of the upcoming 2021 GM SUVs shows them offering an independent rear suspension on at least *some* variants.
I thought the LRA Suburban might have some advantage in towing capacity, but, as it turns out, the IRS Max actually has greater towing.
Thank you Kyree for correcting that! I knew the 5 link/coil spring part and I mistakenly thought that was IRS. I haven’t actually looked. I don’t want to spread bad intel.
I do have the Magnetic Ride Control, and the Max Tow package adds a rear suspension levelling feature as well. Whatever is back there, it rides and handles quite well for what it is. Almost 5000 miles now and I have no complaints about ride/handling.
I don’t have one but I did rent an Expedition Max in XLT trim this summer. It was a nice cruiser with a very good ride, handling and power. The newest Suburban I’ve driven I think is a 10 and that was so long ago that I can’t really compare how they drive.
I love these reviews and this one was extremely well done – thank you sir!
That Suburban gets terrific mileage for what it is; my 2010 Infiniti G37 should do so well. Of course traffic here in SoCal is hellacious and does not help matters.
The only resentment I have for vehicles of this ilk also relates to crowded SoCal: here so many parking lots have been re-striped to add spaces and these things often take up two.
Great review, if I were in the market or had the cash, these would be some of the only new vehicles I would buy. Because they’re as close to what I like that I can still get in some fashion.
I agree about the Suburban looking more uniform than the Tahoe, the extra length is kind of needed for these vehicles because anything else seems really stubby to me. I haven’t been in a Suburban, but I did ride in a Lyft Tahoe, and I was amazed at how supremely comfortable they were. I would probably stick with the standard 18 inch wheels on mine, just to make it even more couch like than it is.
Also, I love column shifters. I wish column shifters were in more vehicles, they feel more satisfying, they’re not as easy to slip into third as a console shifter, you don’t really need a center console (Which for someone who’s 6’2 and has really long legs is a blessing), and you can have your important wiper and other controls on the turn signal stalk (This is more personal preference admittedly). Dial shifters feel too loosey goosey and easy to screw up with, and those static shifters are one of the dumbest modern “conveniences” I’ve ever seen in a new vehicle. But then again, I wish bench seats would make a comeback as well, but that’ll never happen.
…and a couple of inches NARROWER and SHORTER than the 1971-1976 B-Body wagons, which American parents flung around for years without cameras or parking sensors or any such nonsense.
My mum would like to dispute that claim. When we moved to the United States from Germany, my father bagged 1973 Chevrolet Caprice estate, the biggest passenger car with the biggest engine (prior to the oil crisis of 1973-1974). For my mum, it was a massive upgrade from driving a Mini in Germany with tiny four-pot engine, four-speed manual gearbox, amazing outward view from the driver’s seat, nimble handling, etc. It took her weeks and weeks to build up the courage to handle the automotive equivalent of Boeing 747, especially at the car parks.
By the way, I never understand why does Chevrolet invest so much into the active and passive safety as well as creature comfort features yet ignore the significant safety feature: amber turn signal indicators at the taillamps. The GMC and Cadillac versions have that. I’ve seen lot of kits in eBay and YouTube videos on replacing the Suburban taillights with ones from GMC or Cadillac.
What about “T.A.”, short for The Apartment?
Over the thirty five years we were in business, my boss always drove a Chevy Suburban. I was taken by the way he’d become emotionally attached to each one. A new one would sit out behind our office for a few months because John simply couldn’t bear to part with the old one. Then he’d sell it to someone in town and pine every time he saw someone else driving it around. Any vehicle that can inspire that kind of dedication has to be doing something right.
I still sort of miss my ’84 Suburban. 23 mpg back in the old days of the 65 mph speed limit on the interstate.
Great review, Importamation. Looking forward to the Grand Cherokee writeup.
The Suburban. It’s big, it’s excessive for most miles driven, but I am still fond of it. First, I like the square looks. It is intended to be a box, and a box it is, with just the right amount of styling to make it look like an understated premium vehicle. I’ve always liked the way this generation looked.
Regarding excess, since vehicle capability and flexibility cannot simply be stored on the garage shelf for quick installation when needed, if you want it, it follows you around everywhere. It’s the same reason I commute in my 4Runner and just deal with the downsides.
Third, 26 mpg is fantastic for what this is. How fast are your freeway speeds when you are achieving this? This weekend my 4Runner clocked 21.5mpg over a 600-mile trip that included 8000ft and 10000ft mountain passes at 40-55mph and 80mph cruising on the flats. 65 mph with no elevation change would net only 23 mpg–no way I’d get 26 mpg. GM’s doing something right here. Every time I think about what engine would be a better choice in my 4R, I think “GM 5.3”. Hopefully the cylinder deactivation doesn’t affect long term durability–Honda had some problems awhile ago with how it was implemented in their V6.
Anyhow, nice vehicle and informative review. I’d personally like to see any future updates on how it’s treating you, what kind of use you’re putting it to, and fuel economy.
“Hopefully the cylinder deactivation doesn’t affect long term durability–Honda had some problems awhile ago with how it was implemented in their V6.”
My 2006 Pilot had the V6 with the “Eco” cylinder deactivation and went 170k miles with absolutely no problems.
It’s a given that the occurrence rate isn’t 100%. Your model year wasn’t part of the settled class action lawsuit:
https://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/23/honda-settles-class-action-lawsuit-engines/
Conversely our 2006 Odyssey with the same engine did have issues periodically with it, traced back to a sensor that we replaced at least once (with another one from a known good vehicle for $50 a pop). It never stopped or stranded us, just stopped doing the cylinder deactivation so it ran on all six at all times until the sensor was either reset or replaced. I think we sold it with about 120k miles on it. It wouldn’t stop me from buying the van again, the transmission had no problems which was a greater potential concern.
I thought the bad tranny years were with the prior gen. Our friend’s ate 3 transmissions, I think it was a 2003.
I did some research about the 5.3, oil changes, etc. It appears unless you are really flogging it hard, the computer is always going to call for oil and filter every 7500 miles. And this MUST be adhered to, and MUST be full synthetic 0w20 of a quality brand, as the owners manual clearly states.
Which isn’t that hard to follow. The V4 hardware is run by the oil/oil pressure, so ignore oil changes or use nonsyn off brand oil at your peril. The innards need to stay clean.
And the 5.3 holds 8 quarts, so 7500 miles should leave full syn oil pretty undertaxed.
Gotcha. Looks pretty reasonable to me.
I wonder if it can be bolted in to my Toyota’s transmission? 355hp would be a nice upgrade 🙂
My Tahoe is 18 years old and has 240,000 miles. And I love it. It’s roomy and handles, goes and stops well for its size.
Lord willing, it will eventually be replaced with a ’07-’13 generation, be it Tahoe, Suburban or Avalanche. I really like the styling on those years…
…although I’ve driven the ’15 Tahoe and Suburban – both base models – owned by my employer. They drive like a bank vault, tight, solid and moves with authority.
I always think of them as KING OF THE HIGHWAY.
So “King” is my choice for a name.
Keep in good repair and hopefully you’ll get many miles of satisfaction.
If you don’t mind me asking, what was the approximate purchase price of the vehicle?
It’s more or less public record with all these MSRPs and discounts being all over the internet, so MSRP was $75,115.00 after $5,320.00 of options and the $1,295.00 destination fee. I paid $62,200.00, minus $24,500.00 trade equity, then add in tax, tag, title.
I went into it wanting a trade difference of no more than $40,000.00 so we were right on that.
If I expense 100% of the trade difference under the current tax laws, assuming a 40% combined state and federal income tax rate, that’s another $16,000.00 I can rebate to myself. So effectively I paid $46,200.00 for it or had a $24,000.00 trade difference
There was another $3,000.00 rebate if I was trading a GM car or turning in a GM lease, so I couldn’t get that unfortunately. I did get a $3,000.00 rebate for trading in a 2016 or newer of any make.
Noice. That’s amazing value for the money. Why didn’t you get a sparsely-equipped Q7 for the same money (kidding)?
I do love the looks of the Q7! But I am done with German machines, for now anyway.
Never say never, but my past two CPO Mercedes had issues no one could resolve. And my wife’s 2016 Cayenne which was a prior COAL, is on it’s THIRD transfer case in 30,000 miles. And it has never towed anything, been off road, etc. She loves it, but I’m not thrilled about the warranty running out in November. Porsche did give us a $1000 debit card and said they would take care of future driveline issues as a good will repair, but still…..
My daughter’s 2015 A3 TDI, another prior COAL, has been recalled (aside from the emissions retrofit, which I went into knowing about) several times in the 18 months she has owned it. I just took it in for a nav recall, a software update, and passenger seat airbag recall. She LOVES that car like a child, but it’s long term reliability I would question.
So that’s my feeling on the Germans, but the Audi dealer had a new black metallic A8 in the showroom that was absolutely to DIE for…….
Uh…I just bought something German, and now I’m a little worried, now. Future COAL on the way. It’s a gooooood story, too!
Congratulations on the purchase. I have always really liked Suburbans and think they are one of the most versatile vehicle on the roads. With the fuel economy you are getting, it’s darn close to the minivans I drive occasionally at work. Your review is making me want to buy another Suburban. My only hesitation about the newer ones is that the utility aspects have been reduced. Compared to the old GMT400’s, which IMO were on of the best, the cargo capacity has significantly been reduced. And I also really liked the true 8 foot load floor on the old models.
Interesting that you compare the Suburban to the revered B-body wagons. I actually owned a Custom Cruiser wagon just like the one you posted above (sans woodgrain) and a GMT400 Suburban at the same time. While my ‘Burb was a tad shorter than my Oldsmobile and in fact a bit narrower, it felt larger and more ponderous compared to the wagon. The shorter wheelbase of the wagon made it much more maneuverable, especially around the city The Burb had substantially more cargo room, and offered more interior comfort for the 8 passengers. The ‘Burb’s longer wheelbase and heavier weight made it a far better tow platform. The Olds wagon was a lot less powerful, but it got significantly better fuel economy.
I am more in the minority as I used my ‘Burb as truck than a people mover. Overall though, I loved my Suburban. It was one of the best vehicles I ever owned and I hope yours serves you as well as mine did.
This one does have a load floor of just over 4×8, so the sheets of plywood or what have you should fit. I was measuring to see if our 10 foot kayaks will fit, but they will have to stick out the flip-up glass in the liftgate.
I get a real kick out of telling some SUV snob “Do you realize your precious Tahoe/Suburban/Escalade is just an ancestor of the departed wood-grained station wagons of yore?” The priceless look on their face never fails to make me grin, as they stammer for their next words, deeply offended by my crass blasphemy.