When we last left Cornbinders Of A Lifetime, my brother had split the transmission in my 1973 Cab Top from end to end, and my search for a replacement transmission hadn’t been fruitful. Then, while cruising the classifieds in the local paper, I came across an ad in the Heavy Duty Trucks section for for a Scout II “parts truck” priced at $500.
Just as soon as my wife walked through the door, we loaded up the kid and went off to check it out. When we got there, the owner had just pulled it out of the garage. He explained that the clutch had starting slipping, and since he didn’t really use the Scout anymore it didn’t seem worth fixing. He told us he’d originally ordered it from a local dealer specifically for towing a travel trailer, which meant it had the 345, a 3.73:1 axle ratio with Track-Lock differential out back, the HD four-speed, power brakes, power steering and the factory Class III weight-distributing receiver .
After I drove it around the block and I told him I wanted it, we ran to the nearest cash machine and hurried back. By the time we returned, he’d pulled out a file that contained receipts for everything that had ever been done on the truck, along with the window sticker and the sales contract–and he even threw in the original factory shop manual. I happily handed over the cash, strapped my son’s car seat into the truck, and headed home.
After we arrived home I started examining the file. It was so extensive, it even included the service station receipt for a fill-up and undercoating just a couple of days after he’d picked it up. The more recent receipts showed that within the last few thousand miles he had spent nearly $2,000 on everything from battery to brakes to radiator to rear axle bearings; in fact, the clutch was about the only thing not recently replaced.
The next morning I performed a more thorough inspection in the light of day. There was a little rust here and there, but the important parts were solid. I raised the hood (incredibly, I hadn’t even looked underneath it the night before) and started checking out things. Unlike in my six-cylinder Cab Top, these engine mount brackets were completely different and welded to the frame; so much for a bolt-in engine swap. Also, the bell housings in the International-built 345 were different than those used in the AMC-sourced 258, which ruled out swapping transmissions, transfer cases and axles. I once again flipped through the file, and it didn’t take me long to decide this was in way too good shape to be used as a parts truck. Time after time, it has been documented a when a Binder nut considers that the truck they purchased for parts does not deserve to die, it’s a sign that a disease for which there is no cure has taken hold.
So, I was off to the license agency to transfer the title, and then to Costco for new tires to replace the mismatched, seriously old ones. I had some old, chrome aftermarket wheels wide enough to take some 31 x 10.50 Mud Terrains, which allowed a little more ground clearance versus the stock tires. I adjusted the clutch so that it slipped only when being pushed hard, and since a Scout is hardly a hot rod, I managed to nurse another three or so years from it. When eventually it started slipping during everyday driving, I simply parked it in my storage yard for a couple of years.
After I’d gotten my Cab Top back on the road I got the itch to do the same with this one, since it could carry our entire family, now four members strong. In the last installment I noted how part of my addiction included regular cruising of eBay parts listings, one of which advertised a garage-full of parts located just a few miles away. Apparently, sometime in the late 80’s this guy and his friend had been bitten by their own addiction, which they supported by parting out trucks. Their unsold parts ended up stashed in a garage that belonged to one guy’s mother; now his sister was moving into the house, and she wanted the stuff gone. In that stash of parts I found a fairly new clutch disc and pressure plate.
After bringing the Traveltop home from the storage yard, I changed the oil and cleaned it up. Then, on a day when there wasn’t much scheduled, I took it to the shop where I worked and put in the used clutch. I got it all wrapped up just before closing. I pulled it out of the shop, and decided that since I had a good clutch I’d do a burn out. I revved it up and dumped the clutch–and then heard a big bang accompanied by a grinding noise coming from the rear. I locked in the hubs, shifted into 4WD, pulled back into the shop and got a ride home. The next day I pulled the diff cover and discovered that I had exploded the differential, and that pieces of it had broken the teeth of some of the gears. I pulled it out of the shop, stuck it in a corner of the parking lot, and left it to sit.
Eventually I found a 3.73:1 Track-lock differential, listed on eBay, from a brand-new Jeep that had been lifted and fitted with larger tires. I picked it up for a song and then ordered up a bearing kit. Working in a corner of the shop, I removed the rear axle. Removing and installing the differential in a Dana 44 requires a case spreader, and they aren’t cheap. Thus, I fabricated one and then got down to the business of teaching myself to set up a differential. Fortunately, I still had that factory shop manual. I went slowly–this was my first time setting up gears–but eventually I got it back together, with a perfect pattern and proper backlash.
The Traveltop became my winter driver; in the summer, I favored the Cab Top due to its easily removed roof. Apparently it became so used to the routine that every spring it decided to have some sort of major breakdown. In the first one, the exhaust rusted until the tail pipe fell off, which sent exhaust fumes into the cab. On the local Craigslist I saw that some guy was selling parts from a now-abandoned Scout project, one of which was an authorized reproduction dual-exhaust system. Since I’d already scored some new-old-stock clamps on eBay, I was set for a restoration-quality exhaust system. Although I kept putting it off until winter was well on its way, I finally got it all installed just a week before a serious snow storm blew in.
I drove it throughout the winter, until the April day when I took it to pick up my daughter from school. While pulling out from a stop sign by my house, I shifted into second gear. Although the clutch pedal went to the floor, the clutch didn’t disengage. I pulled over and looked underneath; everything seemed to be right with the linkage, and I didn’t see any parts in the road. I stuck it into second and started up in gear. I managed to drive home, fortunately only a couple of blocks away, where I parked it at the top of the driveway while I made room in the garage. It sat there for a while before I had a chance to crawl underneath.
I thought that the throw-out fork had come loose from the cross shaft, so I started removing the drive shafts in order to pull the transmission and transfer case. When I got around to the driver’s side to remove the bell crank, I found the real cause: The frame side-pivot ball was bent to the side after the weld holding it to the frame had cracked almost all the way through.
The problem was that the weld is on the back side of the bracket, and the back side of the bracket is only about a half-inch from the body. In other words, the body would have to come off of the frame. I’d had a little bit of experience, so it didn’t take long until the body was perched on jack stands high enough to let me reach in and do the rewelding. As long as the body was off the frame, I installed new polyurethane body-mount bushings. I also had disconnected the master cylinder when lifting the body, and since I had most of the parts needed to convert the front drums to discs, I added that to the project. I replaced the aftermarket radiator hoses with genuine pieces with factory markings, and also replaced the thermostat, water pump and heater hoses. When I went to reinstall the drive shafts, I noticed that the U-joints needed to be replaced as well. Despite my procrastination, the project creep, and waiting for delivery of an ever-increasing number of parts, I did get it back together before winter set in.
That spring, one of the few things I didn’t replace on the cooling system, the heater core, decided to spring a big leak. Once again, it sat until the next winter was closing in. Thankfully, I’d kept the heater core from the rig that donated its chassis to my Cab Top. After an easy fix, I was good for another winter.
Next thing I knew spring was rolling around again. Right on schedule, while I was cruising down the freeway the engine started a tick that soon became a knock. Since the oil level was full and the pressure was normal, I drove it on home. The next morning I went to track down the source, but everything was quiet. When I drove it to work it seemed fine but later, after a longer trip on the freeway, it started making noise again. This time I did some closer investigation after I got it home. Try as I might, I couldn’t pinpoint the source of the noise. It could have been a lifter, but somehow it sounded like it came from something deeper. In any case, it didn’t sound like a rod knocking.
The file I received when I purchased the truck contained an 80’s-era receipt indicating that the previous owner had brought it to the local International dealer complaining that the oil pressure gauge wasn’t working. As it turned out, the gauge showed no pressure because there wasn’t any. They’d pulled the pan and found bits of bearing material at the bottom, then checked the rod and main bearings and pronounced that it must be what they described as “a common problem” related to the camshaft bearings. They replaced the oil pump, and then sent it out the door with acceptable but not ideal oil pressure. I’ve since learned from the IH forums that it is indeed common for camshaft bearings to de-laminate, and their failure can starve the valve train of oil.
I pulled it around back and stuck it under the deck where it sat last winter, then swapped its almost-new tires over to my Cab Top. During a long power outage last winter, it served as a generator, charging a couple of extra batteries we used a large inverter to run the blower for the furnace to stay warm. At this point I’m not sure which way to go. It still runs great and doesn’t burn or leak much oil, but it does have over 200,000 miles on it. I’m tempted to replace the lifters, but given the prior cam-bearing diagnosis I don’t know if it’s worth it. I’ve got a good-running 304 in a parts truck, but I don’t really want to pull it and thus disable that vehicle. I do want to rebuild the original engine in order to keep things pretty much original. Meantime, winter is here and it’s going to sit out another year. Hopefully it will be back on the road next winter, but until then it will stay under the deck.
I had forgotten how much I liked these Scouts. The only one I spent significant time in was a 73 with the AMC 6 and automatic. It always seemed to me that the 345 and a stick would solve (almost) every problem that the thing had.
Your shot of the open cargo area with the spare taking up 25% of it brings back memories. I had accompanied my best friend on a trip with his school band. Our bus got back to the school late that evening and his brother came to pick us up in the Scout. Their Dad had been on a fishing trip with his buddies all weekend and had just returned. The entire back end of the Scout was filled with empty beer cans, up nearly level with the rear seat back. Let me tell you, to a high school kid, it was an impressive sight.
I do recall that they once took the roof off of that one. It was a nasty job and, of course, a pain to store when it was off the car. Growing up in Fort Wayne where these were built, they were quite common.
I’m sure you’ve seen your share growing up in my Scout’s hometown. I’ve never pulled the top off of this one, I leave that to the Cabtop which I can remove by myself and store it in the bed if desired. I keep the tools to do so in the truck and I can have it unbolted and off or bolted back on in 5 minutes or so.
You, sir, are very dedicated to your trucks! I don’t wrench my own, so I’m quite sure I would have had to throw in the towel on such a beast after the first or second failure.
I’m thinking that your Cornbinder addiction isn’t such a bad thing. For one thing, it makes for a good story. For another thing, I bet you’re not really spending a lot of money on your Scouts. I mean, compare that to the cost of one of the full-size 4X4 pickups that are the ride of choice in my neck of the woods (the suburbs). I look forward to your next installment.
Wrenching on a Cornbinder as a hobby would cost a pittance compared to the cost of a pretty-boy 4X4 pick-up. In fact, I doubt Eric has spent a year’s worth of depreciation of a pretty-boy 4X4 on all his IH toys.
I had a 1973 Binder and it went everywhere, real billy-goat stuff, including overgrown trails. Never for a second worried about my hi-gloss paint getting scratched or my Desert Dueler tires getting scuffed.
I always laugh at pretty boy truckers. They are really good trucks to cruise the mall, though.
It all depends on what you want it for. Some owners DO aim to cruise the mall-trails. And of course, some, not.
The truly laughable cases, are those owners of shiny-new truckazoids who take them on forest trails…often armed with digital camcorders, to record their he-man exploits…and then roll or flip a $55,000 status-symbol.
Yup, I’m with ya here. Gimme a faded-paint A100 stepside 4×4…or maybe not. Worth too much, a collectable….maybe a 1992 Ford, then?
Good choice! The 1992 Ford, especially with 300-6 and five speed manual transmission, is, in my opinion, the best pick-up ever made. Honest, tough vehicles that also drove well and were still easy to fix.
Na since the people who collect IH’s are notorious cheap skates, even pristine ones aren’t worth that much. However the likelihood of finding an pristine original one is much lower than finding one that has been worked hard and is still ready to work hard.
Sounds similar to folks who enjoy Lada Nivas. Rare to find someone who owns just one too.
I’ve not kept tabs on how much I’ve spent on this one, but it hasn’t been that expensive though I’ve certainly spent more fixing and maintaining it that I did to buy it. Heck the last set of tires were more than I paid for the truck.
I hear you, man. A Pretty-Boy 4X4 is going to depreciate $10k the second you drive off the lot. In the meanwhile, you have a fun toy to play with. When you can wrench yourself, it really doesn’t cost that much.
You do something for my addiction but I’m not sure what it is. My 57 still sits because I have more fun things to do (but not more fun things to drive). Sometimes it makes me want to go snatch back the 40 half ton I gave to my nephew,but I’m too lazy. It always makes me tolerate better the things in my yard that will run someday.
I think that you make me know I’m not the only one and makes me always click when I see the “scoutdude” is the author.
Thanks Eric
Wow….And I was complaining about having to replace the brake calipers on my Imperial…..
We tend to forget, in this Japanese-quality age, of a time when mechanical beasts demanded ministering to. And that the niche products demanded more even than usual.
I’ve never owned a Binder; I understand the attraction. But how did IH get a reputation of “durable” with all these mickey-mouse failures? Really…a pattern of failed lubrication from poor camshaft-bearing design?
First of all, this truck has like 200,000 miles on it and is something like 40 years old. But yes, the Cornbinder isn’t all that reliable. Mine had only like 50,000 miles on it when I got it and it was very far from trouble free.
There is a reason they are no longer on the market.
Well as Canucklehead noted this is a 40 year old rig with over 200,000 miles and despite that diagnosis of failed cam bearings it has gone another 80,000 miles. In reality many of these engines did go 300K or more even in Loadstar applications.
The only things that I’ve done to the truck in the almost 16 years that I’ve had it that aren’t mentioned in the story are the more basic maintenance items, Plugs, points, oil, filters, battery.
I admit that the clutch pivot breaking loose is a Mickey Mouse failure but everything else has been things that are going to fail on just about any vehicle at least once in 40 years.
We’ve had lots of IH engines in five tons and they really don’t give a lot of grief and they are also easy to rebuild.
Alas, they have been replaced with newer vehicles!
“we loaded up the kid”
Wonderful. We know more about the “Scout” than we do about the “kid”. Did you ever have the “kid” sexed or was “it” a hermaphrodite? Did “it” ever get a name?
Hey it’s a site about cars, but for the record my first kid is a boy and he did get a name and it’s Darren.
Seriously. If I want to read about someone’s kids, I’ll go on Facebook. This is Curbside Classic – I want to read about your cars!
Ha Ha, that’s what I figured was the case with most people here, hence the reason I referred to him as “the kid” in the article.
I admire your mechanical expertise!
That’s one f-ing sweet truck… I’ve always wanted one of these, but they’re now extremely rare and/or pricey where I live. I didn’t comment on the others, but all three of your IH vehicles that we’ve seen (so far??) have made me drool. A Scout II with the Traveltop and 345/4-speed is the exact one I’ve always wanted, but I gotta admit I was blown away by the orange/white pickup version… especially after the mention of it’s AMC six (which I never knew Scouts came with). In a perfect world I’d have both of them, and the pickup would have the top half of an early Jeep 4.0HO transplanted with an NV4500 behind it. And a Scout 800 with the dealer option turbo… and a ’68 Travelall… and… OK, let me stop myself there. IH trucks are apparently addictive even in daydreams.
I hope you end up keeping it and remedying the sour V8. IMO it wouldn’t be sacrilege to find a replacement 345 (a 304 would be less desirable, but still OK). Even though it would probably run fine for another decade, I would personally consider the original unit cursed after 200k miles of less-than-ideal oil pressure, even after a full rebuild.
I always wondered how tough it would be to get the top off one of these. Now I know… bummer. Have you ever taken the hard top off a CJ? If so, how would you say that compares? I’ve seen guys on the internet build some pretty nifty rigs for taking the hard top off and hanging it in their garage. If I ever win the lottery and start building my IH fleet, I’ll be sure to invest in one of those.
The oil pressure has never dropped out of the acceptable range since I’ve had it, it’s just not as good as it is in my Cabtop or some of the other IH’s you’ll meet in the coming weeks. The Traveltop will live again, if it gets the 304 it will only be temporary until the original 345 is rebuilt and reinstalled. I do have a 392 but haven’t ran it myself and a Scout doesn’t really need it, it’s not like I’m every going to pull the 60K the max GCVW rating it gets in a Loadstar.
I have handled the IH Traveltop on parts trucks and it really isn’t that heavy. Being steel it is certainly lighter than the fiberglass YJ and TJ units. The only pain about removing it is if you have the fiberglass panels inside that you can see in the shots from the rear. Those have to come off to access the bolts that hold the sides down. If you don’t have one with the Deluxe interior like mine or the higher level Custom interior then those panels (and headliner) are not present. I do know some people do have rigs in their garage for making removal a one man job and for easier storage.
Regarding the 258 there have been people who have swapped the 4.0 FI the 4.0 head and FI, the complete 4.0, or the 4.0 with the 258 crank and rods stuffed in it to make it a 4.6 but I cannot recommend a AMC powered Scout II. Apparently the IH engineers weren’t happy about setting up the rig to take that “not invented here” engine in it. So they broke one of the cardinal rules of welding and set it up so the engine mount is welded to the corner of the frame tube. That causes damage to the frame as seen in the picture of one of my parts trucks below. The frame from my Cabtop has the start of it too.
Here is what happens to the frame when a AMC 6cyl mount is involved.
Wow that blows… what do people who have them do? I imagine you can strengthen it to a point, but is the solution for most people just ditching the frame (and the six) altogether?
There is not that much love for the 6cyls, many people like me just consider them parts rigs, Others catch if before it gets as bad as the one pictured and are able to save them.
Cool, I forgot that IH even made a 392 V8… was that ever available in the Scout, or was it strictly a Travelall/Pickup option outside the medium/heavy-duty applications?
Driving one of these with the fully open top must be a blast. I don’t know how you’ve resisted the urge – although I completely understand. When I had a Jeep with a removable hard top, it was such a nightmare getting it off the first time that I never put it back on (also a nightmare) until I sold the damn thing. Does anybody make a soft-top for them? I’ve never seen one, but considering the vastness of the off-road vehicle aftermarket, I feel like that’s gotta exist. Looking at these pictures, it occurs to me the Traveltop Scout is one of the few vehicles that looks just as good, if not better, with the top up/on as it does with it off.
I’m very much looking forward to future installments, keep em coming.
No IH never put the 392 in the Scout from the factory the 345 was new to the Scout line with the introduction of the 1971 Scout II, before that it was the 266 and 304.
From the beginning you could order it with a soft top from the factory. The aftermarket also made them early on but they were out of production for a number of years. Occasionally one of the Light Line dealers would coax Bestop to run a few but recently they have come back into regular production and are available in both black and white. They are not cheap however a full set with bows and hardware will set you back more about $1000. I do get my top off Scout fix from the Cabtop and frequently it will spend all of the summer months with it off. Of course that means only 2 passengers can ride along rather than 3.
Mine was a 304 and with the tiny Holley carb and the enormously understressed block made truly great low end torque. With 3.73 rear and Torqueflight, the thing came off the line hotter than anything I have ever owned. The torque was RIGHT NOW on the thing. The fun was all over at like 30 km/h though! It didn’t matter because the thing chugged through the bush like a mule.
Unfortunately, it drank like an elephant.
It was designed as a Medium and Heavy duty truck and industrial engine so it’s all about the torque down low. The fuel mileage can be helped a bit, nowadays the best was to do it is with fuel injection.
However as CAFE was looming IH did a pretty good job getting the 345 a 20mpg hwy rating when equipped with the 4sp, 2.72 axle gears and a Thermoquad carburetor with it’s tiny high velocity primaries.
Of course I’m not going to give up my 3.73 gears, if I want MPG I’ll drive my Panthers. However its MPG is not that bad all things considered. It averages about 12mpg in my regular driving, not that far behind our modern V8 powered station wagon’s (SUV) around town 13.5mpg.
Having owned Scouts with a 304 and now a 345, I can’t say there’s a huge amount of difference in power from one to the other (other opinions are welcome…)
I’m not a big guy, but I have pulled a Traveltop off by myself out of necessity. It’s a pain but it can be done. Some guys build overhead winches, but I built a set of very wide sawhorses in my sister’s barn and backed up to them. I unbolted the top, found the center of balance, and lifted it between my shoulders. Then I just walked it back to the tailgate and ten minutes later it was topless.
“Time after time, it has been documented when a Binder nut considers that the truck they purchased for parts does not deserve to die, it’s a sign that a disease for which there is no cure has taken hold”.
Amen to that!
Damn it
(However, it is possible to be cured. After four (4) of them I went cold turkey. Been clean ever since).
EDIT: Just remembered that there was a fifth one. But that was gone by 1987. I maintain that 25 years is long enough to claim a cure.
Yeah being clean for 25 years you are likely past the danger zone, but you never know, stay away from Craigslist. If you do ever get near one do not get any cuts or scrapes from it’s rusty metal as I said in the comments of a previous installment IH puts something in the steel that when oxidized and entered into the blood stream, via a cut or scrape, causes the addiction. Certainly do not get behind the wheel of one either, even for a second.
I promise.
The CC effect struck this morning. When I opened my bedroom blinds, there was a Scout 80 cab top in the driveway across the street.
+1 on the early 90’s Ford Trucks with the 300 six and the Mazda 5 speed. IIRC the rear ends had something like a 2.71 gear ratio. Great for highway use, but not much for towing. Although, I did use it to tow a 16 foot lowboy loaded with Dad’s ’52 Ford tractor and bush hog. Those trucks were the right size for the job at hand. Not like the bloated, overweight trucks today. The new ones make my current 2006 GMC look like a midsize.
I have a large pile of Hillman parts that are looking for a body, shell scarily I found a tidy 57 on trademe nearly as bad as cornbinder addiction but takes less room and better on gas old car addictions are hard to cure and I aint even gunna try