Get out the Kleenex, because the Leyland P76 is a woeful tale. Like any turkey, its easy to dismiss it wholesale, and it certainly had its shortcomings. But every car has its story, and the P76′s is a lot more complex and compelling than I might have given it credit for. The whole idea of Leyland designing a large car on an American scale, specifically for Australia, gives one a bit of a woozy feeling from the get-go. So maybe better get some Dramamine along with the Kleenex.
The world of BL is almost a parallel universe, and one a bit challenging to keep track of, especially when it gets to its Austalian and New Zealand operations. Anyway, the P76′s predecessor was the Austin Kimberly/Tasman, a somewhat well disguised BMC 1800 (ADO 17), with a fwd transverse 2.2 L six-cylinder version of the “beloved” E-Series that also powered the Maxi and Allegro back in the UK.
The ADO was a remarkably roomy car, and the Australian version even came with bench seats, to make a six-seater. But the frailties of the E-Series and fwd didn’t really work for the Aussies, who preferred the rugged and simple Big Three’s iron, suitably localized.
So the ambitious program to create a true competitor for the Holdens, Fords and Chryslers was launched in 1970, codenamed P76. I always wondered how Leyland could afford to create a unique platform, and the answer is they couldn’t , and didn’t. We’ll get to the couldn’t afford at the end, but the didn’t part has to do with the fact that the P76 shared certain engineering features with with Rover’s SD1 (Rover 3500 in US). You remember that fiasco, right? And I’m still looking for one.
Michelotti, the somewhat uneven Italian designer that Lyeland had used for a number of its cars, was commissioned to design the P76. The result is…well, what do you expect from an Italian trying to design an Australian take on an “American” car? So what does it most remind you of? 1969 Torino? 1971 Satellite? Or?
I find myself literally getting sucked into that grille. Wow; Michelotti meets a Plymouth Sebring.
One of the design objectives was a true American-style trunk. The P76′s ability to swallow a 55 gallon (44 Imp. gals) drum became one of the more enduring parts of its legacy.
On paper , the P76 really was more advanced than the competition in numerous ways. It had a strut front suspension, rack and pinion steering, disc brakes, and most significantly, it had an aluminum V8. Take that! The P76 weighed some 500 lbs less than the competition. Nothing to sneeze at. What looks like the typical Detroit V8 iron is actually a unique 4.4 liter version of Rover’s (ex-Buick) 3.5 liter V8. With a taller deck, it swung a longer stroke, and was rated at 200 easy horses. The six cylinder was an enlarged version of the Kimberly’s six, with 2.6 liters. Let’s skip that.
Touted as “Anything but Average”, the P76 won Australia’s Car of the Year in 1973. Expectations, and initial demand was high. You know where this is going. A combination of supplier problems, poor assembly quality, the first energy crisis, and failure to live up to high expectations all conspired in the P76′s rapid implosion. Within some two years and 18k cars, the lines were shut, and Leyland Australia was mostly bust, except for some local production of the Mini and Mini Moke.
In addition to the sedan, a coupe, the Force 7, was also developed, featuring a genuine hatchback, no less. Rather oddly proportioned for its size and intended mission, the Force 7 was aborted after some sixty or so were built. Of those all but eight or nine were sent straight to the crusher. The remaining eight were auctioned off, and spend their happy and pampered lives appearing at car shows. Must keep the memory alive.
From the A-pillars back it’s a shrunken LTD/Galaxy, but the nose is Maserati-like. Very weird.
It could really use some hidden headlights to clinch the front end treatment, imagine if it was just a solid “grille wall” between the turn signals, the Force 7 coupe looks like a huge Mustang II from the side, I love 70′s Aussie cars, they have this “haven’t we met somehwere before” deja vu about them.
THANK YOU! I think that might be what I’m subconsciously picturing, which would go some way to explaining why I kinda want one.
*hasty photoshoppery*
Looks good! No?
NO
It looks even more like a Torino with the hidden lights, especially the ’70.
Better than the original.
Looks like Michelotti’s reinterpretation of a Ford Torino. (And why would you ever want to reinterpret a Ford Torino?)
What, no ‘ute’ version?
BTW, I remember having seen exactly one Rover 3500 in the US. When I used to play youth soccer, way back when, one of the other kids used to arrive in a Rover 3500. It was easily the oddest car in the parking lot. (I think they were British, or maybe just Anglophiles.)
Hmmmmmmmmmmm 55 gallon drum huh? Too bad there weren’t moonshine runners in Austrailia in those days, sounds like the perfect car for them.
I think he meant 44 Gallon drum but hey why worry about facts
55 US gallons = 44 Imperial gallons. Got it?
Rover SD1 launched July 1976 according to Wikipedia. Even taking industry lead times into account it is hard to accept the SD1 had much impact on a car sold 3 years before. If there is a connection it is the SD1 which owes a debt. Ron, where are you?
Look here:http://www.shannons.com.au/pages/auctions/lot.jsp?id=EF5D348ZE819IPF9
Yes, it’s probably not representative but still interesting.
BL had some absurdly slow and convoluted product development. The SD1 launched in 1976, but the development of the SD1 began in March 1969.
http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/2011/09/25/the-cars-rover-sd1-development-history/
It seems likely there would have been a kind of cross pollination between the projects… but as with most things BL it’s never simple – the whole convoluted thing is examined in detail here:
http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/2011/06/24/p76-vs-p8-vs-sd1/
There was to my knowledge no relationship between the SD1 and P76
You mean other than using the same powertrain and being built by the same company.
British Leyland denied any relationship with the design if the SD1 and the P76 Force 7
OMG you did it the P76 one of the worst cars ever created we had a 6 cylinder one for a paddock car a fairly gutless thing all the suspension and wheels were identical to XW Falcon same supplier I guess amazinly I saw a Targa Florio V8 one the other day no camera handy thinking thatl fool em at the curb but no. The Kimberly tasman twins are very rare not the most durable cars but one is for sale on yrade me along with a Marina 262 which is the Morris Marina with a Leyland P76 engine a spectacular failure designed to compete with the Holden Torana.It certainly wasnt average it was nowhere near that good
Bryce the XW had wishbone suspension where as the P76 had macpherson strut. Is the rest of your contribution as accurate.
The tie rod ends are identical wheels brake parts there seemed to be a lot of Borg-Warner in that p76 all I know is what we used for parts to keep one mobile it was an unregistered bush car 11 years old and beyond getting roadworthy even in Narrabri, I drove a Tasman several times not a great experience like an 1800 with more power but hardly a great car, look how many are left they simply disappeared. Are you telling me the Marina with a 6 was a good car?Rose tinted glasses are fine but the reality of Leyland is they failed to sell cars and went bust.
Tie rod ends are the same as Holden HQ. Ford, Chrysler, Holden and Leyland all bought brake parts from PBR. Ford Chrysler, Leyland and later Holden all bought driveline components from Borg Warner. The Marina 6 was good enough to start and finish Bathurst in 1974. Leyland Australia never went bust. The parent company, British Leyland, closed the factory and sold everything to try and bail themselves out of the shit. Didn’t work as by 1978 British Leyland was bailed out by the British Government and eventually broken up and sold off. Get your facts right Bryce.
Same difference they folded their tent and left,lots of cars start and finish Bathurst its not that far The Marina is and was a shitbox a bigger heavier engine wont help
ooooohhhhhhh we starting on the Marina’s's now are we???
that could open another can of worms!!!
Marinas were absolute crap , thats praise not derision
It does look a lot like a Torino, but I think it looks more like a 1974-78 Matador sedan, especially in the exaggerated Coke bottle fenders. From the front it looks like a Triumph Stag.
I don’t know what it is about these, but I’ve always kinda liked the P76 since first reading about it (It was never sold in the UK and I didn’t encounter any while I lived down under).
Can’t explain it, by all reasonable measures it’s clearly a rushed, flawed design that would have been appallingly manufactured… but something about them still appeals.
Likewise the SD1 although at least that’s more conventionally a looker, and *some* good apples must have snuck through the picket lines at Longbridge so it’s conceivable you could find one that won’t completely fall apart…
BMC then Leyland had several tries at making an Australian car that the masses would buy the closest they got was the
Morris Major it was slightly awkward looking but a good car it used the Wolseley 1500 Powertrain the Freeway was also quite good once the oil leaks were sorted out but the front wheel drive cars were crap the Kimberly/Tasman twins were unreliable in the extreme though nice riding and OK to drive
Hence the idea to build what people wanted the P76.
The Aussie big 3 started a hate campaign long before any cars appeared unfortunately for Leyland the resulting car wasnt well made and warranty issues didnt help their cause. In the end they folded their tent and left the remaining cars are loved by their owners and club members but are a rare sight on the roads even 20 years ago it was unusual to see an Aussie Leyland though a former junkyard between Belingen and Dorrigo houses at least 30 examples.
When I saw the first pix of the P76 my mind immediately flashed back to a number of old Mercurys I grew up in. Here’s one:
It’s almost like an alternate reality. I’ve really been watching way too many of the old Twilight Zones…
Hey Paul, i’d like to write some articles myself for the site. How possible would that be?
Very possible. I just sent you an e-mail.
i never received it. just to double check. kziegler74@yahoo.com
Check your Junk/Spam folder. I sent it to that address. You can also write me at curbsideclassic (at) gmail.com
just sent a story idea to you.
Paul did you do any research for this story and or seek permission to use the images. My view of your article, in the absence of any quoted sources or other substantiating refference point is that it is ill informed, derogatry and an unproffessional attempt an journalisim. If however you would like me to revise my opinion of your work please feel free to post the sources of your article that you relied upon to establish you views as expressed in the article.
For your information I have been a long term owner and member of the P76 Owners Club.
Mark Ellery
Mark, I would not like you to revise your opinion of my work. If you would like to submit an article about the P76, I always welcome submissions. Enjoy your P76!
(Also, see my comment to Carle below)
The Force 7 looks like someone’s attempt to update an AMC Marlin for the mid 70′s.
I well remember the hyps surrounding the force7 then suddenly it was not to be as Leyland folded their tent and left oddly the proportions seemed good back in the day.
Awesome to see a familiar car on Curbside! With my Dad being an Austin-Rover (aka Leyland) mechanic in the 1970s, when I was born, I was aware of the P76′s existence from an early age – his tales of its enormous boot were legendary. I still have an original parts catalogues Dad gave me. My brother-in-law had a V8 P76 in the 80s, it was quite solid apparently. Moving forward to 2011, there’s a gorgeous V8 one up the road from me here – it’s had the same owner for the last 15 or so years. It’s in mint condition, metallic blue paint, white vinyl interior, period chrome wheels. Looks and sounds great! There’s at least one Force 7 here in NZ too, a beautiful blue one. Leyland also built 3 prototype station wagons, of which one still exists:
I think if they were of better quality, they may have done OK. After all, people were excited about the P76. There were generations of people that had owned English cars so people were willing to give it a go. It looked better that the Falcon, in my opinion. But the reliability and build problems really did them in. Sadly, after the P76 fiasco, many people swore off every buying another English car due to the P76s lousy reputation. It literally became a joke. Anything that was no good would be called the P76. We had an old TV that worked sometimes and it became known in our house as “the P76.” Plus at that time, Holden was at the top of its game producing the most popular model it ever built – the HQ – available in so many configurations and equipment levels. Holdens and Fords were reliable, sadly, P76s weren’t.
The front of that hatchback at the show looks like a widened Mazda RX-3
In Tony Davis’ excellent book “Lemon-Sixty heroic automotive failures” there’s a write-up on this turkey. It won Australia’s “Wheels” magazine’s “Car of the year-1973″ award,embarrassing the magazine ever since.
Led them to make the rule no awards to a specific variant of a model, as the COTY award was for the V8 version only.
An article absolutely full of inaccuracies with scant evidence of truth in the whole article and shows no research at all into the subject.
Aussies had a good use for this type of garbage many years ago, hanging up on the dunny (toilet) wall as toilet paper!!
Oh here is a hint go and drive one!!!!!!!!!
Here’s what I find ironic: it’s very common to find articles trashing the P76. I set out to counterbalance that, to the extent possible, I specifically pointed out a number of the interesting and unique qualities of the P76 (rack and pinon steering, disc brakes, alloy V8, etc.) I have no reason to disparage this car. I find it an interesting effort, and a noteworthy one.
Yet the market has spoken, right? It failed, spectacularly, right? Did I actually call it a bad car anywhere? No. So why are you and Mark so hyper-defensive? Would you be happier if I lied and said the P76 was a great success?
I’d love to drive one; is this an invitation?
Wheels magazine wrote articles praising the P76 when it was new Ive never read anything praising it since
@Carle Gregory- If you don’t like it, start your own blog or go write for another one. I don’t see much wrong with this article. I am an American reader and I’m not familiar with BL so I appreciate articles like this. I love to read about vehicles sold in Europe and Australia.
This is the amazing thing about the P76: that a car that could be such a spectacular commercial failure, can to this day have such rabid fans!
P76s are consistently well represented at the car shows around Melbourne, and… ahem… I’ve noticed that more than a few owners put up displays about how great the car is and how wrong you are for thinking otherwise. Others embrace the ‘turkey’ identity as a bit of good fun, much like the folks who bring their Marinas and Allegros.
The most memorable anecdote I can remember about the P76 is that Leyland salesmen were dismayed by the name, which–on the car’s badges–could be misread as ‘PIG’ from a distance, or so the story goes.
As an American who’s lived in Australia for a couple years now, I hope we’ll see a lot more features on Aussie iron. Similar cars built for similarly long, straight roads, and the ‘parallel universe’ quality of these cars is fascinating.
I got to talking to an instrument technician once when I was still working, and it turned out that he owned a Rover 3500 – the SD1 version – and liked it. So not many months afterward I saw a good-looking dark green one at the gas station, walked up and introduced myself to the lady, and indeed she was the wife of said technician. They had had the car for quite a few years at the time and both still were happy with it. I saw it around town a couple of times after that. The only reason I mention that here is that I don’t expect to be reading a CC article on that car anytime soon.
in answer to your reply
“did i actually call it a bad car anywhere”
not in those words but a quick look and you have labelled it a “turkey” not very complementary.
“it’s very common to find articles trashing the P76.”
In my opinion these articles are usually decades old newer articles concentrate on their historical values.
“So why are you and Mark so hyper-defensive?”
Ask an Edsel owners this question as well, because like them after decades of derogatory diatribe being made the joke wears very,very, VERY thin.
” You know where this is going. A combination of supplier problems, poor assembly quality, the first energy crisis, and failure to live up to high expectations all conspired in the P76′s rapid implosion. Within less than two years and 18k cars, the lines were shut, and Leyland Australia was bust.”
“Supplier problems”…… YES due to the big 3
“Poor assembly quality”………. NO.. poor quality control.., a dealer in northern New South Wales did a proper quality control on his cars before delivery and there was no problems with these cars.
“Energy crisis” ………YES
“Leyland Australia bust” …………NO the P76 was actually MAKING a profit (the Mini was actually losing $6 per car!!) and the factory was rapidly coming back into the black.
It was a Manger appointed by British Leyland to liquify the assets at the factory to prop up British Leyland that closed the factory
“Michelotti, the somewhat uneven Italian designer that Lyeland had used for a number of its cars, was commissioned to design the P76.”
Yes Michelotti put forward a design but it was NOT the design that became the car, it was a different package from within Leyland Australia.
By the way, my sources for opinions here are personal views of the time and more so from Employees hired by the factory at the time and well before.
One ex employee was a respected Motoring journalist called Evan Green who published a book (Bootfull of Right Arms) on the minimal preparation of a P76 to compete in the World Cup Rally, well worth a read.
On a Positive note
“unique 4.4 liter version of Rover’s (ex-Buick) 3.5 liter V8. With a taller deck, it swung a longer stroke, and was rated at 200 easy horses”
It was actually used in light trucks (Leyland Terrier)
Ironically i do NOT own a P76 i have driven quite a few and have come close to ownership so i cannot personally offer you a drive however if you approach a P76 car club you might be lucky to sample the car and some more recent information
I hope this clarifies things a little
Remember the Tucker Torpedo??
basically same deal different company
Well, that doesn’t help your argument one bit. The Tucker was a profoundly under-developed, over-promised, stock-hyping scam of a car. An historical curiosity, at best. More like a monumental turkey.
Paul, regardless of your intentions to write a counter balanced article on the P76, the title of your article is inaccurate and flawed. And you wonder why P76 enthusiasts react harshly. The commonly held view that the P76 was the death or contributor to the death of the Leyland Australia is wrong.
Regardless of how the P76 sold, Leyland Australia was doomed long before the cars release. The parent company – British Leyland was losing money hand over fist and as you would well know was Nationialised by the British Government. One of the first acts of the new regime at BL was to offload most overseas interests. Leyland Australia was a work in progress with the P76 wagon still in devlopment and the Force 7 nearing production. Along with that was the P82 in it’s early stages of development and Leyland Australia still required an enormous of amount money andinvestment to bare fruit. Hardly a priority for an organisation struggling to stay in existance. Peter North, Leyland Australia’s Managing Director has been quoted recently as saying tha the P76 was cash flow neutral for Leyland by early 1974. Hardly the sign of a car that killed it’s maker! The P76 was an exceptional car that had circumstances beyond it’s control seal it’s demise.
It would be appreciated if you could change the title of the article as it is clearly incorrect and makes yourself appear ignorant and ill informed. Hardly qualities a good journalist wants to be labelled with.
Congratulation Carle on a well present reply.
Thanks Paul for spreading the news about our cars.
My neighbour owns a Edsel (one of three in OZ) and he is proud to own one. I will send him this link.
I hope you find time in looking at my web site?
Some of your picture may have come from there. Thanks for using them
We are holding our Leyland P76 Nationals on the Sunshine Coast of Queensland next Easter. Why don’t you book in and come have a look. I am sure you will find any number of people willing to offer you a ride.
Well anyway I thank you again for highlighting the unique cars that make the automobile industry such a vibrant place.
Yowee
Why do people love to denigrate cars like the P76, Edsel, Delorean, Tucker, etc.?
Just because someone dared to do something different.
We live with the legacy of those so eager to deride the pioneers that try and climb out of the proverbial sewage in which we live – up to our chins. The majority spend their lives wading slowly through this quagmire and whispering, “Don’t make waves.” Naturally they don’t want anyone splashing around and trying to climb out of the s**t.
Schadenfreude surrounds us. Australians in particular show signs of this affliction in so much of what they do and especially when it comes to their own.
I would love to see the P76 knockers front up and talk personally to the engineers, designers and those that built the car. It’ll never happen. Heck, why let the truth get in the way of a good story.
For the record the P76 did not send Leyland broke. In fact it was the only car making a profit for them at the time it was killed off to appease the the Labor government, Union leaders and competitors.
That’s what makes worth writing about! Because they were different, and bold gambles don’t always succeed.
Here’s the key thing: “turkey” doesn’t necessarily reflect on the car itself as in its abilities to function as a car. It’s place in history, it’s positioning, marketing, and so many factors determine why it may end up being seen as a turkey.
The Edsel functioned just fine as a car. But the decision to make it created a turkey. And we can talk endlessly about the P76′s qualities, for better or for worse, but in the end, it’s still a turkey. Sorry.
Paul I must agree with James. Your article title is profoundly incorrect so your journalistic skills are already in question. Many Journalists have jumped on the “Bag the P76″ bandwagon as it seems the popular thing to do. Being popular has nothing to do with being correct. Try the latter as it will reflect better on you and your profession. Good journalism requires thorough research with a touch of opinion, not the other way around. Are you reporting from the US? If so stick to writing about cars that you have some knowledge of. By the way, I have read your home page, do you have a thing for turkeys? You seem to talk about them alot.
This blog’s editor and most writers and commenters are Americans, obviously. (We are honored by a number of Aussies, Kiwis, Canadians and Brits who seem to like it too.) This is the Thanksgiving holiday week in the US, traditionally celebrated by bringing the extended family together around a turkey dinner. Thus it is turkey week this week at Curbside Classics.
In America, like everywhere else, a slang word is rarely simple, it carries shadings and connotations. In America we love our turkeys a little, even if they are not very smart and turn out to be losers. There’s usually a whiff of affection and sympathy in the word “turkey”. Please see my piece today about the Triumph Mayflower and its comments for good examples of this.
It’s also been my experience that CC commenters have spent some time reading the blog before commenting, since the quality of comments here is uncommonly high.
PS: This is an amateur blog, written for our mutual edification and amusement. For journalism, please see the New York Times.
As one of those citizens of the United States, I’d also like to add that the purpose of this week’s holiday is to give thanks; those thanks are often directed toward our freedoms, which include the freedom to express our opinions, which may or may not agree with those of others.
And with that said, I wish peace to all on this Thanksgiving Day.
Wow Paul you set off a hornets nest of P76 apologists. When I moved to OZ in 84 the P76 was already a very rare car they had simply disappeared from the roads and noone was mourning their passing everyone was quite happy with Holdens Falcons and Valiants. BL stayed in the market with Triumphs ,Rovers and Jags but the dream of the Australian car was finished from the Marshall to the P76 it was over whether the P76 killed them outright or merely contributed is immaterial it was the last attempt so I find the title accurate.
Back in the early 80s in high school my friend’s Dad owned a 4-speed V8 P76. We kind of felt sorry for his Dad (even though he said it was a good car). People thinking they were clever were always bagging it out as a lemon – it became the standard National joke which probably didn’t wear off until the late 1980s. However, we only felt sorry for his Dad until we went in the car once we all got our licences. MAN it was good. So much pickup and it was huge and comfortable, a very nice ride. When I had a drive I couldn’t believe the WIDTH of the thing, but it handled fantastically, much better than 1970s Ford Falcons and Holden Kingswoods that other friend’s parents owned (and probably better than my Mum’s 1982 Nissan Bluebird which had severe understeer – so much that a driving instructor at a defensive driving course I did labelled it “dangerous”). The drive of the P76 was very different to other cars of the era, much more planted I’m assuming because of the reduced weight and MacPherson front end.
They were a great car and I still dream of owning one one day.
it became the standard National joke which probably didn’t wear off until the late 1980s
Growing up in Australia in the 70s and 80s, the P76 was the car that always featured in TV ads where the punchline was a vehicle breaking down or being driven stupidly.
I remember a tyre ad where the P76 is driving along a country road and all the wheels fall off at once and roll away, the idea that the tyres were so durable they’d keep on rolling even as your piece of crap car bit the dust. The P76 never got much respect.
After reading this kerfuffle in the comments, I can’t wait for Paul to do an article on the Mazda Roadpacer!
As for you P76 loyalists, better not make too much noise, you’ll send Jeremy Clarkson your way to drop a few pianos on them!
All the poor handling traits of the HJ Holden coupled to en engine which couldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding. Great engine in a small, light car like the RX series Mazdas but not in a 1500kg Holden. Shades of the 4cyl Commodore to come. At least it handled.
Aaron over at ate up with motor is doing the Mazda rotaries he mentions the Roadpacer
If you are wondering where they all went, I’ve got nearly 60 at my car farm!
This is a helpful comment?
I have two smart diesels convertibles, maybe they’ll be written about as turkeys in the future (some say they are now). That’s OK by me. I love mine dearly.
This Leyland thingy is eye poison, but the fact that it did not sell seals the deal.
Of course they didnt sell the best seller of the time was the HQ Holden which was a good looking car that actually drove and handled well the leyland was awkwardly styled ugly and poorly made if they had any handling ability they would have been raced in standard production classes with success and P76s did compete in the Wills 500 in NZ and lost to Valiants with only 6 cylinders not E49s either just stock 265 automatics. Sorry Dougal but they werent great cars but hey buy one if you want to there are plenty around just not on the roads but Ive driven many 70s Aussie cars and the P76 wasnt the best by a long shot.
The Holden HQ was a smart looking car for it’s time but if you actually think it drove and handled well, well thats just plain ridicules. The HQ wel best known as woeful handling car. You seem to have some strange idea that if a particular car handles it would have been raced in standard production classes. Mainstream motor sport in Australia changed from Series Production to Group C Production Touring with more allowable performance mods.So no standard production racing in 1973/4 to race in. Remember also that Ford, Holden and Chrysler had all had factory or similar racing programs leading up to or during this period. Leyland Australia never had sufficient funds to take on the might of the big 3 in motor sport so there was no motor sport development program at the time. The P76 engine did though go on to win the Australian Gold Star in I think 1975 with John McCormack and his McLaren Leyland Formula 5000. As far as the Wills 500 goes, that requires a bit more research
“Of course they didnt sell the best seller of the time was the HQ Holden which was a good looking car that actually drove and handled well the leyland was awkwardly styled ugly and poorly made if they had any handling ability they would have been raced in standard production classes”
they didn’t sell? 18.000 cars in 18 months is pretty damn good.
The Holden HQ a good handler, that’s a laugh, i suggest that you try to find a respected motoring magazine from Australia called either Modern Motor or Wheels (can,t remember the exact magazine right now) that has a very remarkable and memorable article in it where the mag did a 4 way road test between the Leyland P76, HQ Holden, XA Ford Falcon and VH Valiant.
it was a very extensive and exhausting test with the HQ and the VH Valiant fighting for being the worst AFAIR the HQ was worst of the 4 and the Leyland P76 was the best with the Ford Falcon being in the middle.
As for motor sport did you read my earlier post??? a P76 competed in the 1974 World cup rally and competed in a stage that was so tough many cars didn’t complete the stage (the P76 did complete it) and ironically the organizers deleted the stage after everyone had gone through it!! The P76 went on after that to WIN the Targa Florio stage and Complete the rally. The factory made a special model to celebrate this historic win.
read the book i suggested earlier “Bootfull of right arms” written by the driver, organizer, builder and respected motoring journalist Evan Green.
there was rumoured a P76 being prepared for the 1975 racing season in Australia but Peter North quickly put paid to that. My Source, the past employees of Leyland Australia at that time, they have an annual luncheon to catch up on news
That 4 way test was in Wheels magazine they were trying to justify their COTY choice as usual I read it when it was published however having driven an example as fast as it would go Ill stick with my inpressions of how it cornered. A specially prepared rally version was probably good but hey I dont care I didnt want a P76 back then or now Ive owned enough cars that were better, more reliable better looking and better to drive.
The Rover SD1 was a better car and it must have obvious to management that Leyland Australia was going nowhere being cash neutral is a waste, profit is the answer and that wasnt happening despite the awards the car failed to sell in large enough numbers extinction followed get used to it
as i said before i don’t own a P76, i have come close but circumstances have got in the way of this happening (not the wife for once
) i also have automotive tastes different to the mainstream as some of the contributors hear will tell you.
Money no abject of course
I would like a P76 (wagon preferably) and also a Tucker Torpedo but then i would have to have a warehouse to store all these cars i would like, SD-1 i dunno? i do like the outside styling, i know where there is one near me waiting for the owner to restore it or more likely he will pass on before that happens.
Yep i gave up on the COTY award too after a couple of dodgy decisions.
i have a couple of videos on my you tube channel with P76′s and a SD-1 going around Mt Cotton hillclimb track
Bryce, when you do not know what you are talking about it is best to back off before you make yourself look even more stupid. Let’s talk about the Benson & Hedges Series (not Willis as you incorrectly stated) in NZ for starters – a P76 V8 4 speed Deluxe came second to the Charger in the Benson & Henson Production series. By the time the P76 started Production Series racing in NZ the Charger was a well developed car, despite this the P76 went close to defeating the Charger and would have done so if it continued racing. The only reason it didn’t was because the car ceased production n NZ. David Oxton (he co-drove with Peter Brock at Bathurst in 1985) raced the P76 in NZ and was of the opinion it was a superior car to the Charger and would have beaten it with further development. Unless I am greatly mistaken Bryce, you didn’t race a Charger or P76 so we will have to accept David Oxton’s view! And what about your often quoted HQ? Let’s just say that it or the HJ (it’s successor) didn’t come close to the P76 in the Benson & Hedges series. Like you said, a good handling car would have done well in motor sport and the HQ was and is not a good handling car. Your comments about the motoring magazines favouring the P76 to justify their decision to give the P76 the COTY award does not hold weight, neither Motor Manual nor Modern Motor had COTY awards at the time and both magazines found the P76 to be superior to the Big 3 in all ways. This was confirmed when I spoke to Steve Cropley recently, He now resides in the UK and is Editor-in Chief of Haymarket Magazines but was working as a motoring journalist in Australia in the 70′s during the time the P76 was released. He found the P76 to be a vastly superior car to it’s opposition and is still of that opinion, so much so that he has even written a piece on the subject for a motoring publication that will be printed early next year. Sorry Bryce, but he has a little bit more credibility that your rants that you used to live in Australia and the car is ugly. Because, if you any idea you would know that the looks of a car are subjective, and many people in Australia now find the P76 to be a great looking car. I doubt anyone will be saying that about the Pontican Aztec in 30 years time. I have owned HQ Holdens Bryce, and you cannot compare the HQ to the P76 as the P76 was and is light years ahead. Paul, I am happy to invite you to drive one of my P76′s, and I will even have a HQ Holden on hand for you to compare.
James, I wish…maybe some day. But I appreciate the offer and you taking the time to enlighten us further on the P76.
Let me say that I like nothing more than to learn more about cars, especially ones that I’m not familiar with. What very little I knew prior to writing this post is from some other I’ve seen over the years, that parrot the usual things.
I didn’t have much time to research this piece, given that this is a blog, and not exactly like a monthly magazine. But it quickly became apparent to me that the P76 had specifications that suggested the potential for superior performance and handling.
And I did make an effort to point that out. I had/have no reason to disparage the P76 in terms of its design and engineering. I was not at all familiar with some of the more arcane details of what caused Leyland to pull the plug on P76 production. But nevertheless, it also doesn’t surprise me that there were issues with the final product in terms of assembly quality and/or parts quality.
Given that it was a clean-sheet new car, that might almost be expected. Add to that BL’s notorious issues with their other products in the seventies, it would almost be a given. But I wasn’t there…
It was clearly a bold undertaking, and the P76′s lighter weight and other qualities make it an interesting car. I can understand how the P76 owners’ enthusiasm, and how they might feel about any perceived or real slights to their cars.
As I’ve said before, when we call a car a “turkey” or “Deadly Sin”, it doesn’t necessarily impugn the car itself. But if the car failed, for whatever reason, then it is likely to be called that.
I constantly run into the same issue with our readers here and the prior site I wrote for, because of my Deadly Sins series. Many of these cars, like the ’66 Toronado I just did a few days ago, are mostly superb cars, but the decisions for why these cars were made, and what effect those decision had on their makers, is what often qualifies them for that status.
If I ever get to Australia, I hope to learn more about this fascinating car. Thanks for taking the time to shed more light on it.
The P76 that ran second had to be pitted to repair its exhaust it was gaining on the lead charger because an off had torn the muffler off letting the engine breathe better but those cars had to be stock so the exhaust had to be fitted. Developing it did not happen and wishing wont make it so.
I said the HQ was the best selling car during the P76 period it was its handling issues ie understeer could be fixed by fitting proper radial tyres the cars in the HQ race series still use HQ suspension Aussies and Kiwis voted with their wallets and bought Holdens not Leylands despite the best efforts of the motoring writers of the time.And they are still justifying their decisions
Mebe if Leyland had built it better it may have lived up to the hype but they didnt and consequently it did not gain a good reputation and after the X6 debacle buyers stayed away.
I think these P76 dudes need their own forum!
Owners club, cant get over the fact their car failed where it counted, in the market place
By your reckoning Bryce only cars that are successfully marketed abd sold are good cars. The motoring world is littered with good cars that didn’t sell well. Our current Ford Falcon FG series is probably the best car made in Australia ever but still fails to sell as many as it’s inferior rival Holden Commodore. I am also amazed that you actually believe that the P76 could be that much quicker without an exhaust system To overhaul the Charger it must be worth at least 20hp. Thats impressive but doubtful. It’s even possible that it lost hp due to lack of exhaust back pressure. Still we’ll let you get back to being impressed by the HQ.
I watched the race drongo, The Lemon was gaining seconds per lap you plainly know very little about cars but a great deal about the biggest failure in the Australian motoring industry Ley land spent tons of money marketing its lemon every buff car publication at the time was crammed full of P76 propaganda The arse licking journalists praised it at every turn it failed utterly to impress the buying public. The punters with MONEY are the people who did not like the P76, bullshit spewing journos write what they are told to by the advertisers the only reason it was COTYis that. Of course a P76 owner would be unimpressed with cars like Falcons Valiants and Holdens they sold to people who wanted reliable transport and the X6 was still a recent bad memory
We have our own forum but educating yanks is fun
you are educating nobody but you probably put off any one buying a P76 and joining you club the sheer bloody mindedness and arrogance mirrors the executives at Leyland Australia beautifully Having convinced BL to invest in an Australian car to take over the market the cribbed the front suspension and engine from existing products the coupled it to off the shelf parts but the biggest SIN was having been given Michellotti as a designer whos Triumph designs still look good today his ideas were binned in favour of some drawings by who the work experience kid the result was awful and the punters stayed away despite the hacks glowing testimonials 18 months later when BL investigated what were they doing? rather than fixing the problems in the slow selling unreliable lemon NO L/A was busy wasting more millions designing a coupe which any market researcher could have told them would be hard to sell. No wonder BL pulled the plug theyd been scammed and they knew it.
look who’s getting real touchy now
You lot are absolute trolls I mean defending the Marina.
The only known Group C Leyland P76
as Steve has said, the P76 people have their own forum or group where i believe the photo’s in this blog came from and there is also a website.
Bryce you have a vastly different set of values to everyone else!
Comments on this post are now closed. This kind of pissing match is not what we’re after here.
Update; Comments are welcome again, but no pissing matches please.
Interesting article and debate….
Growing up in NZ in the 80s/90s I was very aware of the P76s reputation as an unloved commercial failure. When I was a teenager we moved out to a small seaside town, where our new neighbour was a P76 nut. He wasn’t big on maintenance so his P76 would inevitably fail sooner or later, for whatever reason… but rather than fix it he’d just go out and buy a replacement – they were so unwanted it was cheaper to buy another car than it was to fix the problem with his current car. Of course he ended up with 6 or 7 wrecks parked in the top paddock, these donated spares to keep the current car going (it also led to some interesting P76 V8-powered creations, including a S2 SWB Landrover – but thats another story).
20 years on I still remember my first ride in his P76 V8. So much space inside and boy did it go!! It handled pretty well on those twisty country roads too, much better than I ever expected it would. I certainly changed my opinion of the P76 after that.
I was never in love with the way the P76 looked, and the Force 7 was NEVER going to compete with the XA coupe, but I always thought the P76 wagon was a decent looking car
I own a 1974 P76 V8 deluxe with a genuine 54000kms on the clock, it is like it has just come from the factory, it is an amazing car, it is comfortable to drive, very powerful, keeps up with all modern cars & importantly it is reliable. I belong to the Leyland club & I mix with other P76 owners who will endorse my remarks about their own P76′s some have over 200000kms on their clock & they are still performing well & reliable, they just keep going. In this day & age the P76 generates a lot of interest from onlookers who have never seen one or never heard of them, & the comments are always positive with the P76 looks, it’s size & the impressive 4.4lt V8 motor.
I have owned & driven HQ holdens in the 70′s & they were good in their day & there are some good examples still driving around now, however each to theIr own I prefer the P76 because it’s unique & different & it will always be “Anything but Average”
g’day,
one of the reasons the big 3 (aussie) outsold the p76 was because only 10-15% of car owners are actually interested in how a car actually feels while driving,
look of car, marque, seller, gullibility etc etc etc.
i was in my early 20′s when the p76 was released (no pun intended!) having had been reading observers book of automobiles 12 yrs, wheels scw ahrr & nzhrm mags for 6-8 yrs so understood what the p76 stood for.
a much better drivers car best handling, best road holding than valiant (known as best quality slightly up market) hq (best looking under-steer you off the road) falcon (in-between the other 2)
the only reason p76 didn’t win any races was that the manufacturer didn’t have $100,000″s to throw at it & the other teams couldn’t'/wouldn’t take the risk. valiant only won in nz (note. not aust) because of the setup genius of ernie sprauge? (see hey charger book)
what i thought at the time (&i have the feeling that this was the thoughts of other antipodean car nuts) yes she was a bit ugly, the front & rear end seemed to be a bit of a rush job but just wait for the first face lift came, maybe couldn’t take 15 years of abuse in the outback as well as the other 3 but did that actually matter to most of us. what really mattered was she brought a proper european drivers feel to the general public that couldn’t afford the gamble of an imported car that fell apart.
by the sounds of it, the p76′s reputation was ruined by the advertising that took the p*ss out of her because they’d get sued by the other companies.
believe it or not the only p76 i remember seeing was here in the uk at a ‘wheels day’ show a few years ago!!
any way nice to join youse lot – this being my 1st reply.
michael