(first posted 7/24/2016) Just by looking at this Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight, I can absolutely understand the fascination among many automotive enthusiasts – including a vast number of Curbsiders – for full-size American sedans, particularly those in the Brougham mould. This is the classic full-size American sedan: a V8 engine with good low-end torque, a pillow-soft ride and a spacious and comfortable interior.
This Ninety-Eight was sold during a time when you could walk into your local Oldsmobile (or Ford, or Chrysler, etc) dealership and option up your car the way you wanted it. You could choose between dozens of interior and exterior color combinations. You could tick off a heavy-duty suspension package to satisfy your handling or towing requirements. Most full-size domestics were available in sedan, coupe and wagon variants. Was there variety? You bet. Could you buy anything like a Ninety-Eight at a European or Asian automaker’s showroom? Not even close.
Between 1982 and 1992, market share of full-size, six-passenger sedans in the US market dropped from 15% to 8%. Despite this shrinking market share, the Big 3 were offering just as many vehicles in this segment. Some of them, like the GM H-Body sedans that included this car’s replacement, were a little smaller and lacking V8 power, although were more manoeuvrable and efficient. Still, more compact dimensions aside, the full-size sedans of the late 1980s were still recognizable to buyers of their early 1980s predecessors with many still featuring strip speedometers, cushy seats, column shifters, a wide range of interior and exterior colors, and lengthy options lists.
Considering the Big 3’s overall share of the US market shrunk from 84% in 1978 to 68% in 1989, it isn’t particularly surprising that many American nameplates would see a fall in market share. But how is it that the full-size domestic sedan would see such a sizeable drop when the Japanese were years away from offering anything of a similar size? Full-size wagon sales dropped like a stone, but you could squarely lay the blame on minivans for that. What was eating into full-size sedan sales?
Surprisingly, the segment – although diminished in numbers – survives to this day despite intermittent doomsday reports. First, it was near-luxury Japanese sedans that siphoned off potential full-size buyers. Then storming the citadel, in no particular order, were SUVs, crossovers, ever-larger intermediates and compact, luxury-brand sport sedans. Detroit tried keeping some of their full-size sedans defiantly traditional, like the Mercury Grand Marquis, only to see sales taper off. They tried to target the Japanese and the Europeans with more international-flavored offerings like the Oldsmobile Aurora and LSS and Pontiac Bonneville SSEi. They tried dragging out production runs and selling at low prices, like with the Chevrolet Impala. Radical styling? Dodge Intrepid and Chrysler Concorde. Interestingly, the Japanese and Koreans entered the fray with full-sizers of their own like the Toyota Avalon and Hyundai Azera and even they are facing stagnant sales.
While many of these American offerings had a very distinctive feel, it is true that many recent American full-sizers evolved concurrently with Japanese and Korean rivals and followed a similar format, typically employing front-wheel-drive, unibody construction and V6 engines. This Ninety-Eight is a vestige from a time when Detroit could still do things the old way, before fuel economy and emissions standards made body-on-frame, V8-powered vehicles virtually untenable.
This would appear to be a 1983 or 1984 Ninety-Eight Regency sedan. The Ninety-Eight was thoroughly restyled for 1980, adopting a crisper and somewhat less blocky look (and one I personally find much more appealing). The downsized Ninety-Eight had launched in 1977 with a choice of 350 or 403 cubic-inch Oldsmobile V8s, but both were gone by 1981. For the first time ever, the Ninety-Eight nameplate was available with a six-cylinder engine, Buick’s short-lived 4.1 V6; it, too, was gone by 1983. The 350 was replaced with the Oldsmobile 307 which survived until the end of this generation. Unfortunately, so did another Oldsmobile V8: the unreliable 350 diesel first added to the line in 1978.
The replacement FWD Ninety-Eight got off to a strong start despite less stately styling and no available V8, but eventually its sales numbers dwindled. The whole division was struggling, but rival full-size sedans were also losing sales. With time, automotive journalists started writing stories about the “dying” full-size segment, stories that persist to this day.
Don’t write off the full-size sedan yet. While most people don’t want them there are still enough that do, in particular fleet buyers and older consumers. But a modern full-size sedan looks a lot different to this beautiful Ninety-Eight. Common complaints from traditional full-size sedan enthusiasts include the dearth of interior and exterior colors and variety, the lack of V8 power and rear-wheel-drive, me-too styling and a fixation on “sporty” handling at the expense of a plush, comfortable ride. While there is some truth to some of those complaints – indeed, we may never again experience the days of sprawling color lists outside of Rolls-Royce and Bentley – there is a great deal of criticism that is unfounded.
Take the Chrysler 300, for example. It is available with a choice of gutsy V6 or grunty V8 and rear- or all-wheel-drive. You can opt for a base model, the sporty 300S, whatever Chrysler’s special edition is that year or the range-topping Platinum. If you’re tired of the usual black, gray and tan interiors of many modern cars, you can opt for a beautiful indigo-and-linen cabin. Sadly, the lairy 300 SRT-8 is gone – from North America, at least – but you can walk across the showroom floor and…
…take a look at a Dodge Charger. The 707 horsepower SRT Hellcat is the wildest full-size sedan to ever come out of Detroit, but the lesser 292 hp Pentastar V6 and 370 hp 5.7 Hemi V8 are nothing to sniff at. And lesser Chargers are graced with an admirable ride-and-handling balance, neither unmanageably floaty nor unpleasantly stiff.
If you’re a GM man through and through and you want a V8 full-sizer, the Aussie-built Chevrolet SS remains on the price lists. With a 415 hp, 415 ft-lb 6.2 pushrod V8 and a 0-60 time of under 5 seconds, the SS is an impeccably-appointed, fully-loaded rocketship. The best part? You can get it with a six-speed manual.
Those seeking a GM vehicle with a lower list price and greater fuel economy can choose between the redesigned Buick LaCrosse and Chevrolet Impala. The Impala has an available four-cylinder engine, the LaCrosse has optional all-wheel-drive. Both are sold with a 3.6 V6 that is impressively smooth and powerful, if missing that intoxicating burble of a V8. Both are also available with rich tan and brown interior options. No, there’s no willow green or red velour interiors nowadays, but GM has been the most enthusiastic proponent of differently-hued interiors: the outgoing LaCrosse had a “sangria” (purple) interior, Cadillac has offered both blue and red interiors, and orange has been seen in Saturn Auras and Chevrolet Malibus.
The Ford Taurus is looking a tad old but still offers a choice of turbocharged four- or six-cylinder engines or a naturally-aspirated V6, as well as available all-wheel-drive.
Then, of course, there are the domestic full-size luxury sedans, the 2017 Lincoln Continental and Cadillac CT6.
There are some who will complain that none of these full-size sedans have the character of full-sizers past. And it’s true that you won’t find the acres of fake wood, the overstuffed seats, the column shifters and bench seats of cars like this old Ninety-Eight. But it’s funny that in a supposedly dying segment, a domestic car buyer has so much choice: four, six and eight cylinder engines; front, rear and all wheel drive; turbochargers and superchargers; base models and fully-loaded Platinum and Premier editions; a smooth ride and/or a sporty disposition. These modern full-sizers are more powerful, better handling and more fuel efficient than ever, and all offer distinctively American styling.
If sales trends continue, the oft-read prophecies may indeed come true and this segment could die. For many car buyers today, a crossover’s extra practicality or a compact sport sedan’s prestige holds a great deal of value. But for enthusiasts, it would be a shame if these distinctively American (and one Australian) sedans were overlooked because of a perceived lack of character or because they don’t fit the traditional mould. If you’re in the market for a new car, take one of these for a test drive. You will find they have a distinctive character of their own.
Featured Ninety-Eight photographed in Red Hook, Brooklyn.
Related Reading:
Curbside Classic: 1990 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency Brougham – Before The Storm
I seriously doubt that the full size sedan will go away anytime soon. Yeah, crossovers are the most popular market segment now, but it’s a fad. Every market segment has it’s spotlight, and there will be factors in the near future that we don’t know about that will eventually spell the end for crossovers. When the fifteen minutes of fame with CUVs are up, the public will go back to sedans, including the full size ones. There will always be a market for full-size sedans, and while they might not be the biggest sales success, to kill them now would be short sighted. Besides, not everyone wants some stubby looking crossover as a new car purchase, nor are people willing to put up with some of the drawbacks of a Sports Sedan that can make day to day living a hassle, so there are some that will be drawn to the Full size sedan. (My dad was looking at a Dodge Charger for a new car in the early stages of 2014 and I myself fancy the Chevy Impala if I had the scratch for a decent new car)
I’m quite a big fan of these final RWD Olds 98s, there was something so appealing about them in a way that I can never adequately describe. Sadly, most of these big Oldsmobiles have disappeared from the roads, there’s none for sale near the San Diego area, and pickings on Ebay are very slim. Shame, since I would love to drive one of these things before they become impossible to find.
I wouldn’t call it a fad if it’s been going on for 20 years.
Agreed. I’m not so sanguine about the future of the sedan. It may have largely run its course.
One could easily argue that the low sedan was just a fad (I have been for quite some time). Before it came along, passenger cars were all tall and had no trunks sticking out the back. We’re just reverting to that older norm, which when properly done, does yield advantages in packaging.
That comparison is stunning.
It is only logical that, if you remove all that decades of advancement in style and package from a car, you eventually end up with a Ford model B. A box-on-wheels. The question is – how did it come to this ?..
I recall the top half of this picture from another post, Paul, but didn’t comment on it then. What surprised me then was just how small the ’59 Caddilac Coupe is compared to your xB. It almost looks NTS (Not to Scale).
I always thought the Scion xB was a SMALL car, but juxtaposed with that Caddy, not so much.
Rick
Good comparison photos.
Yet the Caddy is so low slung and classy, I cannot see the low slung sedan’s demise unless they start building something big like an old school Packard or Caddy v16.
You forget there are plenty of us who simply will not tolerate something like a Scion box. I’d rather ride the bus.
Plus, Mercedes of all people, makes an S class wagon. A more nonsensical beast I’ve never seen (especially in AMG trim) but I say good on them for recognizing there is money to be made on it.
If something as mind-boggling ridiculous as that can exist, then the four door low slung sedan will carry on.
There is no S-Class wagon, perhaps you are thinking of the E-Class?
What is it that is intolerable about a Scion xB that makes riding the bus an improvement? I am genuinely curious.
Yes, it’s the E63 AMG S wagon but not an S class, my bad. I have nothing against a Scion xB (or any other car for that matter), it’s just a figure of speech. To say it positively, so that people don’t think talking trash about the xB is my point, I’d gladly spend S-class money, or at least used S class money, to get a low slung sedan if everyone else stopped making them. Or, I’d gladly bust my hump keeping an old FrankenPanther drivable if that was the only way I could keep a big sedan as my daily.
“ there are plenty of us who simply will not tolerate something like a Scion box. I’d rather ride the bus”
Ha! Alright then… If you live in a city like I do, our CTA has unlimited monthly passes for $100, including bus and rail.
If not, you sound incredibly ignorant.
Yes packaging has improved a friend has one of those 59 Caddies 4 door pillarless, I dont fit very well in the drivers seat and my Citroen C5 has more rear legroom but as a wedding car that Caddy is a good earner its very popular
Six years later and the consensus is?
Ironically, that 98 is being “followed” in the photographs
by one of the types of vehicle that sealed its demise.
One minor correction William, the FWD 1985 replacement 98 was still a C body. The 86 fwd Delta 88 was a related H body.
The early eighties 98s were a disappointment to me. Simply for how innovative was the original 98 Regency of 1972. A stately car with a conservative low key presence that could be driven by bankers and clergyman and community leaders without raising the heckles like a Cadillac, Lincoln or Benz would. However on the inside was a roomy oasis of luxury beyond what was offered on the higher brands. The first year model even had a few little extras like a Tiffany key and clock that would only be noticed by the car’s lucky buyer. The 250 hp net Rocket 455 and THM 400 were also a high water mark of American luxury.
The early eighties model now had 15% less weight but 44% less power. The interior was still similarly trimmed but had lost the special touches and now the motif was much copied. The buyer, already mature in 72 was now a decade older and near retirement with the accompanying reduction in power. A slow decline.
Greatly insightful article with many good points Will.
I think we have some of the best full-size sedans ever currently on the market right now. Unfortunately, full-size market share and sales volume just keep shrinking.
I also think that in addition to crossovers, a small part of the blame lies in compact and mid-size sedans, which are now essentially the size of mid-size and full-size sedans from several generations ago, respectively.
Agreed, on your last line especially. Rampant size inflation has turned blurred many traditional size definitions. This is as much or more the case with European sedans; once upon a time, a BMW 7 Series was in a whole different league.
Not just size, capability too. I’d think nothing of taking a Focus across the country whereas attempting the same thing in a Pinto of forty years ago would lead to significantly more consideration. I’m not picking on Ford here, Golf/Beetle, Corolla now/then, Civic now/then etc, all have evolved that even the small cars are easily a comfortable and cabable drive that back then was reserved more for the larger and better trimmed levels in a line-up.
A larger part of the blame should go to full-size crewcab pickups. I do believe they effectively replaced the large family car in many parts of the country, especially once you get more than fifty miles inland from any large and congested coastal city.
I think the Camry and Accord are a better example. They found a sweet spot in the market and both have become bigger cars, trying to keep these two in that target market as time has march onward.
This worn Ninety-Eight brings me back to 1983, when I went car shopping with my parents to replace my mother’s ’79 Ninety-Eight. The color combination on this car, Light Briar Brown with a Dark Briar Brown top (and brown velour interior) was very popular that year.
By the early 1980s, however, gas shocks had repeatedly stunned the market, and smaller, more efficient cars had become trendy. The Ninety-Eight was still nice, of course, but seemed dated. In fact, my mother did not opt for another full sized car–she drove the Ninety-Eight and though it was basically the same size as her then-current car, she thought it felt “huge.” Adding to that perception was the too-small V8, which was overwhelmed by the Oldsmobile’s weight and could only deliver “stately” performance. Her pick was the ’83 Cutlass Supreme sedan, a better balance of comfort and efficiency, in a size that would ultimately be the “standard” for large cars of the near future.
All Detroit makers in the early 1980s thought the full-size car would be gone, so investment in the category, other than GM with the downsized C- and H-Bodies, basically stopped. Though traditional full-size cars were still produced, they seemed “big and ancient” by the mid- to late-1980s, and thus appealed to a narrow slice of the market and became “old people” cars, a stigma that has never been erased since.
Ironically, if GM had adhered to their traditional 6-year cycle for major overhauls, this 1983 Ninety-Eight would have been the Cutlass-sized FWD C-body that ultimately appeared for 1985. That smaller, truncated car, filled with shrunken Detroit touches, would have been right on the mark had it been introduced that year. Unfortunately, by the time the downsized FWD full-size cars were released, the early 1980s square styling seemed passé–a design that should have appeared for 1983 was very tired as 1990 rolled around (though better than the designs introduced in 1977 through 1980 that could still be found in showrooms). The effect on the segment was lethal–old fashioned cars that didn’t seem functional enough for their bulk were not the keys to market success in the 1980s. Full size cars became a narrow niche, where they remain to this day, in spite of the availability of some very nice choices. Hopefully, they won’t fade away entirely. But they will never again be a major part of the market.
With these extended wheelbase models, all that room in the back doors and the glass still only went down halfway!
Sorry – I see these and others from GM in those days opens old wounds. In other words, if I were spending my money on a premium car, I demand full functionality and these didn’t make the mark. Probably used the A/C all the time, anyway, so I guess it didn’t matter to the owners.
The glass went down half-way in these fullsizes, and didn’t go
down at all in the midsize sedans of the same era, because rear door
cavities were minimized to maximize hip room back there.
Strange, the back seat windows went down all the way in the
pre-78 midsize GM colonnades… My aunt owned a red ’75
Bu with black vinyl top.
The 1981-early 82 k-cars rear windows didn’t roll down at all either and many other sedans had rear windows that didn’t roll down more than half or 3/4 of the way either during the 70’s and 80’s. It was pitched as a safety thing so kids didn’t fall out of the back with the rear windows all the way down. Many new cars have rear windows that go all the way down in back including my 2013 Impala.
2013 Impala: That’s probably because the beltline is so dang high in post-2000 Impalas and other vehicles!
Great piece, William!! My older brother had one of these in the mid-90s when he was a college professor. At that time, it was over ten years old and a “$999 dealer’s special”. I remember driving it, and how plush that burgundy interior was. I could have napped in that car with little if any difficulty. It was also super floaty. Parking head-first in a regular space at a local Barnes & Noble took me something like a ten-point turn, as I was petrified of hitting either car next to me. 🙂
We called it “The Mothership”.
Joseph, the ad shot of the 98 Regency at dusk reminded me of some of your great photography.
Thanks, John. That is a cool shot of that Ninety-Eight.
I knew several people who owned this generation of B or C body GM car. As the years and miles piled on, virtually every one of them was disappointed in the car that followed. These had their weaknesses, mainly a woeful lack of power. But they still had presence and a feel of weight and quality that made their owners feel good about them. I owned some of them later, and came to understand the appeal.
Excellent and accurate analysis!
I just wish I could justify – and afford – to spring for a Chevrolet SS with a manual…
If GM or for that matter Chevrolet only priced the Australian Holden based Chevrolet SS in between the price slot of the Malibu and the Impala, people may listen and perhaps consider especially since the SS isn’t that much larger than the Malibu and yet still shorter than the Impala.
“Detroit tried keeping some of the full sized sedans defiantly traditional, like the Mercury Grand Marquis, only to see sales taper off.”
Ford milked this cash cow to death. With almost no effort to update much of anything from 1998 until 2011 it is no wonder that sales tapered off. When you buy a new car, it’s nice if people know that it is new. Towards the end of the production it just looked old. I liked the 1998 restyle. The styling changes to the front and back over the years looked good but I got bored with the overall shape of the car. Even when you build geezer mobiles you have to keep them somewhat current.
On my comment above, I should have typed 1992 instead of 1998, which really drives home just how long the Grand Marquis was allowed to die on the vine.
Good point. a ’92-’97 Crown Vic is better differentiated from the ’98-’11 restyle due to the unique six-window roofline. The Grand Marquis kept the same roofline all the way through so, if you’re not paying attention to the nose and tail changes, it really does seem like a 20-year run for the same body style.
This is exactly why I got my 300c-it’s about the most Brougham you can get today. I plan on getting another 300 down the road although the refreshed LaCrosse looks pretty good now too. Depends on where I’m at in those years from now, the CT6 and Continental are maybe in the running as well.
I think it’s fine to make sporty versions of these cars (i.e. the 300s) but companies need to remember there is no way to make a single design appeal to everyone. The 300 is a good example-it can be sport sedan or Broughamesque depending on how it’s appointed and both work. The XTS is a bad example-the overall design is way too “sporty” or stubby, narrow and angular for a decidedly unsporty car and thus it doesn’t cover either base (let alone both) worth a damn.
Oh, and I love this era of big GM sedans, especially the 98/Electra/DeVille and Fleetwood. Same with the Grand Marquis and Town Cars but especially the Mark VI sedan! One of these days I am getting a fairly nice one for a Sunday cruiser. Even though I absolutely love my 300 as a daily driver, it just isn’t the same floaty boat feel as the luxo-barges of old.
It might surprise some of you, but I remember well taking Stephanie to the LA Auto Show in ’77 (or ’78) and taking a good long look at a 98 sedan and imagining myself in it. And it was kinda’ working. 🙂 A doctor friend of hers had just bought one, and it was a very nice way to cocoon oneself in LA’s traffic. But I wasn’t quite ready to trade in my 404nfor one just yet.
I owned a 1978 version with the diesel engine. I liked the low fuel consumption – overall average around 24 MPG – 28 highway. It was slow getting up to speed, not unlike the 1950 Buick Dynaflow. But my 1986 Buick Electra T-type was nearly as roomy, used about the same amount of gasoline, not diesel, and had performance that was as good or better than the 1976 Riviera with the 455.
Excellent write up sir.
I think the next five years will be the true test for full size sedans. Like you said, there is still a a lot of variety in the segment, but the problem relates to sales. No matter what size class you’re discussing, sedans are being shunned for crossovers in record numbers.
Take the new Impala. Sales have declined so much that Mary Barra recently said GM would have to rethink their full size sedan strategy.
The 300 and Charger are running on a platform over ten years old.
Ford developed a new Taurus for the Chinese market while the current D3 based model soldiers on domestically, but for how long? The interior dimensions of the Fusion very nearly match that of the Taurus, while being cheaper, more fuel efficient, and better handling at the same time.
The saving grace for sedans is modular architecture. Ford adapts a small car platform that can scale up to a crossover and a passenger van. The Fusion’s platform underpins Ford’s new full sizers. I don’t think the Taurus would have survived if it rode on its own platform. So while sedans might not be as sought after as they used to be, at least they’ll still be around.
My Grandmother had a ’77 Regency with only 27K miles on it in 1997. The dealership offered to buy it back from her for what she paid for it new but she had no intention on selling. My father (RIP and bless his lil heart) while visiting from Florida drove it out to somewhere he probably shouldn’t have been in the first place to “buy beer” and……it was stolen. Anyway, I did like this ’80 body style refinement better but that ’77 with the 403 was a beautiful car.
Trivia: A friend inherited his parents ’80 with the 307. I had a newer Cutlass with the 307 that started this stuttering and bogging down but only when warm. Couldn’t figure it out. A year later he was complaining about the same in that ’98 – it was the fuel filter in both cases.
But the ’90 Touring Sedan edition was the best car I ever owned and I’m sorry I traded it in with a mere 92K miles
!
How was the ride in this car? I know they came with the FE3 suspension and seem to remember a old car mag saying it was bordering on crusty. I’ve got an FE2 in my ’91 STS and find it comfortably firm-ish. The Olds Touring Sedans are a lot more common on Craigslist (and by common, I mean 1-2 per month) than either an Electra T-type or a ’92-’93 Deville Touring Sedan so I’ve been keeping a closer eye out on the Olds.
That Touring edition was VERY tight. You literally could take your hands off the wheel on the freeway. Truly miss that car.
Wow. Unusual for an American mid-to-full-size upscale sedan.
It was “Not Your Father’s Oldsmobile” which I think was their campaign at the time.
I have always loved the FWD H-Body cars for their sleek styling and sensible designs. And of the lot, I’ve ALWAYS wanted an Olds Touring Sedan, or possibly a LeSabre T-Type… or perhaps both!
I’ve been trying to find one for years, and you just can’t. Glad to know how much you liked yours.
That’s why I don’t understand the guys comment above as the Touring Sedans are “more common with 2-3 month on Craigslist”. He’s obviously got this car confused with something else as they’re rather rare, especially now. I’d like to have another just for the fun of it. Those seats were a dream. Not only did you have the traditional 6-way power adjustment, there were about 5 more buttons in the center console and you could basically wrap that bolster around your back. Very well done car all around. I always assumed things could only get even better with GM but not the case.
A decade later I worked with some Seattle transplants and one that was cooler than you or I was complaining his Saab needed a “mute” button on the steering wheel and he didn’t understand why cars don’t have them. I explained my 1990 GM car had one. If you pressed in the center of the volume up/down button on the steering wheel, it muted the audio.
Its no coincidence by size design that today’s large full-sized cars were merely YES “compacts” or about the size of the 1975-79 Oldsmobile Omega 27-31 years ago.
The last of the classic Ninety-Eights, although I have no hate for the 2 generations that followed. The “full-size” cars now are okay, but I don’t really consider them to be in this car’s league.
I’ve had the Buick and the Cadillac, but never the Olds, although I now own the prior generation.
Always liked the layout of the dash on these. My mother befriended a much older (in her 60s or early 70s then in the mid 1980s) surgeon’s wife when we lived in Florida who drove a grey on grey 1980-84 Ninety Eight. She was always well-dressed, too, and so she and the car had a certain patrician sort of dignity which is not as visible among older people today.
Was that grey Ninety Eight like this? this is mine…1984 with 15K miles.
A late, late reply, to say, yes: exactly like that
More historic illustrations of Oldsmobile 4 Door Sedans showing that many of them were in the same size categories as the 1975-79 Oldsmobile Omega and yet still smaller than the 1973-77 Oldsmobile Cutlass in either the 2 Door Colonnade Hardtop Coupe or the 4 Door Colonnade Hardtop Sedan.
The Omega is basically a Nova. The Aurora was about a foot longer and a bit wider. With FWD it should have been a better package for space.
Todays cars are much different designs than the Nova from the late 60’s or early 70’s. Today’s so called full size cars are much smaller than the “real” full sized cars from the 60’s. I don’t see the downsized 1977 models as full sized.
What needs to be clearly understood is that the automobile market is constantly changing. Yesterdays hot sellers are probably not going to be next years hot sellers.
I had checked my 1975-79 Oldsmobile Omega Sales Brochures and the Omega had an overall length of 199.6″ and a width of 72.9″. I also checked my 1994-99 Oldsmobile Aurora Sales Brochure and the 1994-99 Aurora had an overall length of 205.4″ and a width of 74.4″ so the size differences between the two models were almost close to half a foot even though their widths were a little over an inch difference. The 2001-03 Oldsmobile Aurora according to their corresponding year Sales Brochure had an overall length of 199.3″ and a width of 72.9″ almost exactly the same measurement size as the 1975-79 Oldsmobile Omega even though its wheelbase was slightly longer at 112.2″ vs the Omega’s at 111.1″. True comparing the mid-1970s Nova with like lets say the 2016 Chevrolet SS would be like comparing apples with oranges since evolving technologies would make mid-1970s cars ancient in comparison since yesterday’s car does not depend on computer technology unlike today’s cars including design per se and does not have the mandatory steel safety cages, larger tires and bigger and more powerful engines (adding about a thousand pounds more compared to the mid-1970s cars of similar size) common today.
What really counts is the passenger and cargo space. The EPA guide for 1978 puts it at 96 and 13 cubic feet. The Aurora was 102 and 16. By current standards this puts the Omega in compact class and the Aurora in midsize.
There are large cars (120 cubic ft) in production, The Impala and Chrysler 300 to name two.
I agree with you with regards to Interior Volume comparisons. Same can be said that the 1970-81 Camaro which had a subcompact Interior Volume even though its also considered a large car in exterior size compared once again to the 2016 Chevrolet SS which had a full size interior volume and yet its a tad shorter in exterior dimensions compared to the 1978-81 Camaro. 195.5″ for the SS vs.197.6″ for the Camaro.
The Camaro is not a sedan, and never was. I don’t understand the point of comparing it with a sedan.
Car design back in the 60’s and 70’s was not as efficient as todays designs. Although one must be careful about the cars basic design. Cadillac’s sports sedans are not intended for the same market as the FWD Impala, XTS or LaCrosse.
The point I am making here is basically just the exterior dimensions and I know that the Camaro is NOT a sedan and this is just an analogy. In addition, as we strictly limit our discussions regarding about sedans per each decade, we can see that the interior volumes increase due to space saving designs and having a longer roof and associated interior enlargements via the help of computer technology compared to their predecessors or similar sized past models which did not rely on computer technology since it was not available back then.
Well the first generation Omega was a small car compared to the 1974 Olds 98 (230+ inches). Todays compact cars are the Chevy Cruze, Sonic and Volt. The Cruze is about 180 inches long.
The Omega and the Chevy Nova are similar cars. The Nova was the starting point for the 1975-6 Seville. But even the first Seville is not comparable to current designs.
I think comparing the Omega to a Cruze would make some sense.
A long time ago, when these were thick on the ground, I had a job driving a tow truck in Milwaukee. Big Buicks, Oldsmobiles, and a few Pontiacs were popular with a certain kind of Near-North side hoodlum there. The cars were typically quite rusty, had a cracked windshield, velour upholstery, and the Brougham package. They looked just like the brown one featured here.Many were burgundy in color.
Whenever one of the gentleman owners was arrested or involved in a wreck, my company got the call from the police to tow the car. It seems 9 out of 10 times I did my pre-tow inspection (looking for valuables in the car to document on the paperwork), I would find a Polaroid (remember those?) photo in the glove compartment of the car’s owner manipulating his gentleman sausage. Many Milwaukee PD officers kept photo albums full of these images. Being a cop in the City creates an odd sense of humor sometimes.
It was not uncommon that the owner would come to our office the next morning, demanding “Give me my “BRO-HAM” back!”
I don’t miss that job.
First car I can remember is my parent’s 79 98. Silver, silver vinyl top, red leather interior. What a car. Finally traded it in in ’89 for an H-body LeSabre.
Probably because of that I prefer the pre-80 roofline and front/rear styling.
Today’s full-size cars are nice, but it would still be hard for me to give up my SUV: I value the visibility and cargo capacity. If someone would build a full-size wagon with an upright windshield framed by narrow pillars, I might actually buy it.
Of course, the entire customer base would consist of me and maybe a dozen other CC’ers… we’ll just have to keep dreaming.
Narrow pillars would not meet safety standards.
I understand that they can’t be as narrow as they used to be, but the large cars cited in this article (Charger, Taurus, SS) have especially poor sight-lines, even compared to other modern cars.
Well I don’t know about those, but my CTS does not bother me. I would like to see a wagon though. Crossover’s seem to burn more fuel than I would like.
Sorry car fans, but Utilities are not a “fad”. The smaller S-10 Blazer, Bronco II and XJ Jeep Cherokee started this “fad” over 30 years ago. Full size Blazer/Suburban date back further, far from the “15 minutes” someone claimed.
And there’s plans for big cars to get discontinued, like Taurus or Impala. Even today’s 65-75 year olds are driving Tucsons, Santa Fes, Escapes, Encores and Trax, etc.
Don’t expect Boomers to suddenly buy big cars when they are “older” as some predict, since for one thing, they are ‘older now’.
Yes we are really old now. The Suburban dates back to the pre World War Two era, mid 1930’s.
I remember some newsperson commenting that Home Computers were a “fad” back in early 80’s. And some said same thing about cell phones, TV, radio, etc.
Just as the featured 1980-84 Oldsmobile 98 featured in this story, these were the last truly large Oldsmobile Cars and they were as follows from 1977-82. 1976 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme 4 Door Colonnade Hardtop Sedan (Top Row Left), 1977 Oldsmobile Delta 88 4 Door Sedan (Top Row Right), 1982 Oldsmobile Delta 88 4 Door Sedan (Middle Row Left), 1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency 4 Door Coupe (Middle Row Right) & 1982 Oldsmobile 98 Regency 4 Door Sedan (Bottom Row Center). Note that I have included the 1976 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme 4 Door Colonnade Hardtop Sedan in this mix because in terms of exterior size, it was indeed large and only a little over half a foot shorter than the largest 98 shown on this photo montage compilation. The last full sized large cars produced here in North America which were in the same size range as the 1973-77 GM RWD A/B/C-Bodies were the Panther BOF Platforms coming from Ford like the Crown Victoria and the related Lincoln Town Car.
Here is closer bumper to bumper illustration to show those effects.
Something I had not looked at before, but going through the EPA guides I found that the Olds 98 that is the focus of this article had about 110 cubic feet of interior space plus 20 for the trunk. The FWD C-body replacement also had 110 interior space, but the trunk was down to 16. Then the 1997 Park Avenue is about 110 with the trunk back up to about 19. The interesting thing is that interior space has not changed. The Lucerne was down a bit at 108-17, but the DTS was 113-19.
These are very nice cars for folks wanting a decent old car without spending a fortune. It’s best to buy the freshest example that you can find and not blow too much in a restoration. The driveline is proven and parts are reasonable. Attached is a few shots taken of my ’83, which an 80 year old traded on a new ’13 Fusion.
Back shot
Interior
Wow. Nice Ninety Eight, time capsule condition! The brown even suits it.
Very nice car.
Thanks! I saw it on the back lot during a “Cash for Clunker” promotion, and couldn’t bear to see it donked or scrapped. Attached is a shot of a more unfortunate twin spotted in a Brantford junkyard about 10 years ago.
Another victim in the same salvage yard – more like the subject car.
I think a large part of what has made the minivan and SUV take over the full-size sedan’s market is also the growing amount of paraphernalia associated with children. From bulky, complex car seats that are hard to install while bending over, to the large amount of stuff required while traveling with infants, to the massive amount of sports equipment required by older kids, the utility of having a tall vehicle with a tall, open cargo area have become more and more valued. While widely seen as the reason for the death of the non-premium wagon, I think they’ve also put a huge dent in sedan sales as well.
Like others have posted, though, I think we’re seeing the true end of the era now. It’s going out on a high note, with a wide range of choices and more style than has been seen in the segment in years. But I still think they’re not long for the world.
-The Taurus isn’t selling in civilan guise (the base isn’t much bigger or plusher than the Fusion and the SHO is a shadow of its former self), and in police guise the Utility Interceptor has taken a huge bite of its market with the numbers continuing to shift. The MKS was a dud for years. The new Continental looks quite promising but we’re not really talking about the luxury segment here.
-Barra has publicly questioned the future of the Impala. The SS has been a sales failure despite being massively badass and, as I understand, is no longer in production–I think they’re just selling off existing stock. The Lacrosse is an elegant answer to a question no one is asking–if Buick survives here it looks like they’re pinning their hopes on upscale younger buyers. The CT6 might have a chance but, again, luxury segment.
-No one is quite sure what Fiat is going to do with Chrysler at this point. It’s entirely possible that the Chrysler division itself will be wound up, which would kill the 300. Even if that doesn’t happen, the Charger/300 are on their third restyle on essentially the same underpinnings. I don’t think it can be stretched much longer and I don’t see Fiat wanting to spend the money to tool up a new platform for a dying segment, so I think we’ll see both canceled after the current generation. Chrysler was enjoying success in the police segment with the Charger, but I think those days are gone based on how few of the new ones I’ve seen in law enforcement colors.
These cars are very classic without being too expensive to run as a daily driver here in Germany. Engine and Transmission are rock solid and easy to maintain. My car shown in the picture is a 1977 Oldsmobie 98 Regency Brougham with the 403 cui and the Th400 transmission.
I’m sure this has been mentioned already, but to me, the full-size car exists today in the form of the full-size truck. Body-on-frame, rear wheel drive, and column mounted shifter with the possible availability of a bench seat (single cab models only though I’m supposing for more recent models).
Driving my brother-in-law’s old swoopy 1997 Ford F-150 with the Supercab and V-6 felt like driving my old 1970 Chevrolet Impala and aunt’s 1983 Chevrolet Malibu wagon (which may as well be a mini B-body with its driving dynamics). Being the softly suspended model that his truck was, it had a surprisingly similar feel to the Chevies; though, ironically, more loose and jiggly which I’ve since found a common trait among Ford BOF vehicles including Club Wagon, Crown Victoria, and Ranger.
Today however, even that comparison is loosing ground as Ford makes its mainstream full-size truck engines smaller.
Currently I think (feel) the GM full-size pickup truck (as well as Savannah van and Express models) and Dodge truck (…fine, Ram… pfft, whatever..) are the closest modern driving experiences to that of the traditional Detroit full-size sedan with the steel-wheel, ohv V-8, and missing hub-cap meme.
edit: spelled GMC Savana (source: GMC marketing, Wikipedia: Chevrolet Express)
I actually do have a 2015 Chevy SS, and it’s amazing. I sadly listed it for sale yesterday (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272325086979?forcerRptr=true&item=272325086979&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:LCA:MOTORS:1123).
As the listing says, I’d rather a good home snap up this beast. Anyone interested?
A friend inherited a 98 diesel of this vintage. Navy over navy. Very plush. He was hanging out with some unsavory types at the time. They torched it. Burned to the ground.
I rode in a 98 of this vintage once – quite a nice car, and my friend enjoyed driving it. Still, I prefer the modern full size cars with their better handling and gas mileage. I had an Impala for ten days as a rental this past summer and really liked it. Plenty of power, lots of room, great ride and handling, and great on gas. A much better car than any GM product my family owned on the ’70’s and ’80’s. Still, I don’t know how many will still be around in 30 years or so. They’re more complicated and expensive to fix, particularly with the computerized systems that keep everything moving. One thing about those big old cars – they were (and are) relatively easy to keep running.
I plan to keep my “floating” 2005 Buick Park Avenue running for as long as possible. I know that I will eventually have to give it up. It’s replacement will be a Lucerne from my wholesaler friend. I will miss the float when that happens, but for now I am a happy 62 year old!
My long time friend and fellow car enthusiasts has a 2009 sport red Lucerne CXL with the 3900 V6 closing in on 170K miles and loves it. He plans on getting a 2011 as a second car next year as his son is now driving the 2009.
If you take the Taurus and Impala/LaCrosse out of the equation because not RWD, you’re left with 1 GM product and the Chrysler/Dodge. IMHO, anyone spending their hard earned dollars on FCA’s abysmal quality/reliability/post-purchase regret is insane. So you’re left with 1—Chevrolet SS.
While I don’t disagree about the Chrysler/Dodge quality, the reliability and build quality of the Australian-assembled SS is (was) not much better, and you’ll be waiting forever and a day for parts. As ubiquitous as the LX platform is, I bet the local auto parts retailer would have common parts in stock. Good luck with that with the SS.
The 80-84 Olds Ninety Eights were beautiful cars for the time but just too heavy for the 140 HP 307 or the 125 HP 4.1 Buick V6 for anything other than sedate motoring. These really should have used the HO version of the 5.0 Olds motor with 180 HP and at least TBI fuel injection which would have made a considerable difference in day to day use, drive-ability and highway passing power. This 180 HP 307 was offered from 1983 onward on the Hurst and 442 Cutlasses.
I have seen a rare few loaded up 81-84 98’s with optional towing 3.23 rear gears which helped a little too and pepped up low and mid range pick up some. The 1980 Olds 350’s were the best of the bunch but were saddled with less efficient 3 speed transmissions.
I feel a need to call out the ’17 Lincoln Continental for reviving a long-lost attribute of classic-era Detroit full-size cars: a fully color-coordinated interior, in real colors like blue, in the Black Label editions. Plenty of chrome and wood too, along with an emphasis on comfort and smooth ride (if you avoid the rubber-band tires). The Brougham will rise again!
Don’t give Lincoln too much credit: Cadillac did an all-blue interior first with the 2014 CTS. They had offered blue leather seating in the previous-generation CTS-V, but the ’14 CTS offered an entirely blue interior although I don’t believe it could be had with wood.
Cadillac also has offered some great colour combinations on their current models. There was a lovely two-tone tan and brown where both colours appeared on the dash, rather than just a tan dash with brown seats. From memory, Lincoln hasn’t offered a similar treatment in recent years, generally sticking with monochromatic tan or black interiors.
That being said, the MKS EcoBoost Appearance Package had nice, rich Siena brown leather seats and the 2011 MKX had interesting bronze-finish metal trim. Lincoln interiors have been lovely lately although I generally prefer the Cadillac interiors.
But yes, I do appreciate the Continental and I have a lot more respect for it than I did the Town Car. Will it outhandle the Germans? No, but it’ll ride well – which is important to me – and it has respectable dynamics. I like Lincoln’s taking of a different approach to Cadillac and the Germans even if Cadillac’s approach is more to my taste. If I had to choose between a Continental and an XTS, I’d take a Continental. Neither are sport sedans. But I’d take a CTS or CT6 over either. Those Black Label models are beauties though…
Love the Ninety Eight. I’d love the Olds gas 350, I do like the 1980 restyle. Last of the best.
Most of the fullsize cars listed at the end are gone, and those hanging on are not selling well. The supply-constrained Ford Maverick is outselling the Charger, the best seller of those left, so far in 2022.
Black dominates all the recent interiors I’ve seen. Can’t wait for that trend to end. Same for rubberband tires.
I can’t imagine anyone reading this who has spent as many hours driving an Oldsmobile 88. They were really good cars. They drove well, had good handling, power and fuel economy for the day. The 98 didn’t drive as well as the extra weight overloaded the chassis, and especially the brakes. However, the 98 would probably be nicer on long, straight roads like the Interstate highway system.
For decades, US buyer shied away from hatchbacks, which were always popular in Canada. It seems the appellation, “CUV” is more attractive than, “hatchback.”