(first posted 8/2/2011) Beggars can’t (technically) be choosers. This is where I tell the story of my, as well as Chrysler’s, first modern big car.
Chrysler’s LH cars came out of the desperate need for evolution away from everything but the Viper being based upon the K Car architecture. Everything that wasn’t a captive import for Chrysler seemed to have root in that economy car platform, from the Sundance America to the saddest Imperial that ever existed.
One of the benefits of Chrysler’s buyout of AMC in 1987 was the existing Eagle Premier. A dynamically good platform for a mid/full sized car with light weight, credible performance in V6 form and excellent road manners, it pointed in a direction away from the K-Car based zombie line up. Unfortunately for the actual Premier and its Dodge Monaco cousin they never really found a place within the Chrysler hierarchy. Whether they were direct competitors with a Ford Taurus or an Audi 100 wasn’t very clear. Nor did anyone really know whether the “Eagle” was an AMC extension brand or a genuine Chrysler. It’s not like being a product of either manufacturer with a dubious legacy would have been a benefit.
But the chassis became a test bed for what would (thankfully) replace all of the K Car variants by 1996. Although no direct parts made it to the LH cars, they did share the philosophy of a longitudinally mounted V6/Front Wheel Drive design and four wheel independent suspension. But the new “Cab Forward” design language was draped on a wheelbase nearly a half foot longer than the already roomy Premier, and overall lengths stretched to decidedly un-K car lengths.
When the first batch of LH cars debuted mid year 1992, they made not only their Pentastar ancestors look hopelessly ancient, they also seemed remarkably fresh compared to the recent update of General Motors H Body cars that were their most direct competitors.
About six months later a competitor to the C body Ninety Eight/Park Avenue and Lincoln Continental (and with a little stretch of the imagination, a competitor for the Acura Legend) debuted in the form of the LHS.
Out of all of the American near luxury luxo-barges of the early 1990s, The LHS looks second most modern. It came to market within a few months of the “fatal beauty” original Oldsmobile Aurora that was the hands down looker of the segment. But it didn’t trade on design cues from the 1960s the way the last Ninety Eight did, or for that matter contemporary DeVilles. Nor did it have the pleasant nondescript look of the Continentals on sale during the life span of the first generation models.
From the roofline cribbed from a Jaguar 420, to those lattice wheels, they was something slinky to the looks of the LHS. These looks were also applied to a new for 1994 New Yorker, which save for a standard Bench Seat, wheel covers as standard, softer spring rates and a bit more chrome, was the exact same car.
So how did this near luxury sedan become my first modern car, with features such as Air Bags, Fuel Injection and Anti-Lock Brakes? When I was in high school, the only cars I had access to were my dads 1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass Salon or my Great Grandmothers 1987 Chrysler Fifth Avenue. The Cutlass, then twenty four years old, had no physical connection to the rear brakes, and therefore was a safety hazard. My mother usurped the Fifth Avenue as her second car as her Porsche 944 started seeing more trips to the shop.
This left me without a dedicated car of my own. And the only person that cared was my Uncle Vic. Then seventy two and a confirmed bachelor, he had a healthy amount of disposable income. The week of High School graduation, I received a phone call. Uncle Vic was at the Olds-GMC dealership in Reno, and gave me a few options and a budget of $8,000. Before I could say “Cutlass Supreme Convertible” my dad got on the line and put an end to the shenanigans. I had no way, with no summer job and going off to college, to afford upkeep on a car all on my own. So no choice of five year old lease returns for me.
But, Uncle Vic let his own automotive tastes within the budget loose. On June 8th, he signed the paperwork for a lease returned 1995 Chrysler LHS. June 9th he parked it in the garage and continued to drive his beloved 1970 Electra 225 to the casinos. I didn’t know of the purchase until his will was read labor day weekend 2002. And there it was, in all of it’s silver on graphite glory. All 207.4 inches of “Cab Forward” roominess. Four insanely difficult to clean lattice wheels.
I always wondered what made Uncle Vic decide on a LHS. Considering he was at a GM dealership, there should have been dozens of LeSabres, Regals, Cutlasses and the such on the lot. And like my fathers side of the family he was fiercely GM Loyal, with of all jumping off points, a 1958 Buick Century.
What about the design language spoke to him? It wasn’t as “brougham” looking as the offerings from GM and Ford at the time. And maybe that was the point. To an old man, the LHS looked sporty and youthful in a way all offerings from other domestic makers couldn’t match. It was perhaps the most “youthful” big car to a septuagenarian’s eyes since the Impala SS spewed out of factories by the hundreds of thousands in the mid 1960s.
Even though I had long ago drank the “buy American” Kool-Aid my family served at the table, I wasn’t happy that of all recent used cars I was saddled with a full sized Chrysler a dead senior citizen probably considered youthful. There were the acres of hard black plastic in a car that originally cost $30,000. The somewhat harsh 3.5L V6. And that Gawd Awful Ultra Drive Automatic. But it served it’s duty. It was a remarkably tireless freeway cruiser. And it handled surprisingly well for something that was nearly the size of an early 1960s Impala.
Although it had been a pampered Garage Queen with barely 60,000 miles on it, it started to show its Chrysler issues soon. The front suspension needed constant re-alignment. The air conditioning never worked, and by 80,000 miles the Ultradrive was beginning to become hesitant about finding reverse, and clunky about downshifting for quick freeway merges.
It all got cured by a tree. On the way to class one morning I decided to avoid a stalled Corolla (it does happen, Toyotas do break), so I took out the LHS I had been apathetic about for two years on a redwood tree. And quality fails of all quality fails, even though I hit the tree at about 25 mph, the airbags didn’t deploy. I felt like it was an easy way out of a shotgun marriage. There was bound to be far more serious issues as it aged. I took the insurance money and bought, true to family brand loyalty, a 1991 Oldsmobile Eighty Eighty Royale.
And that makes me wonder, where did the typical LHS buyer go? What are all of the Luxo Barge buyers buying 20 years after the last gasp of this category fired its last assault on the Car Market? Only 3 American descendants of this genre still exist: The Buick LaCrosse, Lincoln MKS and Chrysler 300. And are these 3 survivors of what was once the heart of the American Car market now the dinosaurs soon to be extinct?
Is there still a place in the average car buyers heart for the stylish barge?. Or has America permanently moved on to some alternative. Despite the flaws, the original LHS was one of the most beautiful entries in a pageant nobody watches anymore. And it’s a pity that our roads, our dealerships aren’t filled with stylish whimsy that existed only 15 years ago.
I always had the feeling that the luxobarge was killed by the truckobarge – when people noticed that Suburbans, Expeditions, Durangos, Sequioas, and crew-cab pickups had tolerable driving manners, why would anyone want a car with less space? For a decade at least, cheap interior volume trumped all other hands.
15 years ago few were aware that this would be the last gasp of the traditional American sedan.
That market has now been hopelessly fragmented by full size trucks and SUVs, crossovers and minivans.
Old stalwarts like me are a dying breed.
The only hope of “barges” like this coming back is if engine technology advances to the point where the heavier weight involved in making a large sedan is negated by improved efficiencies elsewhere.
Then the slippery shapes of this LHS, or the Aero Panthers of the 1990s will begin to become revisited.
Maybe.
These were dubbed “Oldsguars” by some critics for their combination of Oldsmobile and Jaguar styling cues. I always liked them – they were an effective (and handsome) combination of traditional styling cues and a modern platform. The contemporary GM front-wheel-drive full-size cars, however, were much more reliable and refined.
Since when does/did GM=reliability?
In Murica-talk refined = smooth and easy to drive. That doesn’t necessarily include the handling and sharpness Europeans love.
We owned a 1996 Intrepid, bought 6 months old with 10K on the odo. Our 1993 Spirit was ejecting its transmission (3.0 U/Drive) and my wife panicked, as the car stuck in first gear on my way to Napa auto parts for something. Of course, this was January 1997 and cold! She found an Intrepid at one of the Dodge dealers in the area – we were still a Chrysler family – and found the one we bought. White, 3.5, padded vinyl steelies that looked loke mags, white as well. Very pretty. That car was as wide as it was long and had to have one of the smallest turning circles ever! Fast, too!
It was a good car when we got a recall notice about the injector rails, so I took it in at 42K miles to get it fixed. The dealer I took it to wanted to change the belt and said the water pump was leaking. I didn’t think they were telling the truth, but nevertheless, I had them fix everything and got Chrysler to pick up half the bill.
Sometime after that, on occasion, it refused to start until after lengthy cranking. I took it back, and of course, the dealer couldn’t replicate the issue. Well, as this was my wife’s car, in summer ’99, we traded it in and bought a new 1999 Stratus 2.4 Torqueflight – something more reliable than the U/D – which wasn’t giving us any issues yet. That Stratus was an absolutely trouble-free car and we kept it until we bought our 2002 CR-V. The Chrysler dealer that I believe took us for a ride – out of business!
I truly liked the LH cars, as there was nothing else like them. Lee Iacocca’s swan song.
Oddly enough, you refer to this cars three times as a (luxo) barge, but I have never thought of the LHS as a particularly large car. Perhaps the bubble shape and/or the small overhangs make it look smaller, or maybe it’s just my biased opinion. 🙂
I agree with Lerooy. I would consider my immediate family to be fullsize car people at heart, but our daily drivers are trucks/SUVs. My dad and I both drive (diesel) pickups, and before that we each a fullsize (diesel) van or Suburban. My mom drives a Blazer and my wife drives a CR-V. My brother still drives VWs, but he dreams of transplanting a VW TDI into a smallish pickup or SUV.
Just for comparison purposes: The 1959 Impala that I did my first post on was 210.9 inches long. The LHS is only 3.5 inches shorter, albeit about 5 inches narrower. It was also a bit larger than it’s closest competitors from Olds, Buick and Lincoln (discounting the Town Car) all of which are pretty barge-y.
Ahhh – the last New Yorker. It saddened me that Chrysler stuck the New Yorker nameplate on the old man version and called the desirable one the LHS. But I always kind of liked these. My sister in law had a 94 Intrepid which took her nearly 300K, and she is not one to baby her cars.
The 3.5 engine was strong and durable. Much of the widespread problems with the electronic 4 speed auto had to do with use of the wrong fluid and general unfamiliarity with the electonic wizardry that controlled the thing. In typical Chrysler fashion, the first uses of the Ultradrive told owners (in the manual and on the dipstick) that Dextron fluid was OK in a pinch. It wasn’t. That, and the fact that Dextron had been Chrysler’s tranny fluid since the 50s led to a lot of those cars being filled with the wrong stuff, which would kill them in a heartbeat.
Some interesting trivia on the Monaco: When Chrysler bought AMC to get Jeep, it had to take the new Eagle Premier too. Because AMC/Renault had spent a fortune developing it, Chrysler was required to sell a minimum number of cars, or it would have to pay a penalty to AMC. I forget the actual number Chrysler had to sell to avoid the penalty. After a year or two, it became apparent that Eagle dealers were never going to hit the target, Chrysler re-branded it as a Dodge Monaco to get it out into another dealer channel to move enough metal to avoid the penalty.
Interesting point about the Ultradrive. My Stepdad had a 1991 New Yorker with the first series Ultradrive, but it didn’t develop any of the bad tendencies until around 100K, versus 85K for my LHS. The LHS, being my first car that was new, and not beaten up, I did keep up on regular maintenance so I was baffled about the transmission issues, compared to my stepdad, who drives every single car into the ground. Maybe his transmission lasted longer because he ignored the fluid flush and changes and the transmission just went out via normal wear and tear versus mine, with the possible incorrect fluid being filled in.
I have to say otherwise, I was lucky to not experience many of the other maladies that people encountered with their LH cars. The 3.5 V6 was decently powerful, but not a particularly smooth engine considering it’s “advanced” approach. Either GM threw layers more sound deading around the 3800 or the balance shafts actually worked because any C/H body doesn’t transmit as much noise and vibration to the driver (even directly through the steering wheel) the way an LH car can.
When I owned my 89 Cadillac with the 307, I drove my sister in law’s Intrepid. Wicked fast by the standards I was used to, and it was still a good driving car even at nearly 300K.
I had trouble getting used to the unusual angle of the gear shift pivot (but that was before I bought a 99 Chrysler minivan). It seems to me that the Intrepid had had a single tranny rebuild around 100K but nothing after (although my memory or info may be faulty here).
I have always been tempted by the fact that these are so cheap on the used car market. I know that there are a/c issues and the transmission worries, but I still think about these.
JP, as a former Chrysler Service Advisor, I would beg to differ. Ultradrives would grenade all on their own without any help from the wrong fluid. They were so awful we used to get them in to our stealership by the 5 ton truck full. I never saw one go past 80,000 km without being rebuilt.
I could rant about the LH for weeks it was such a P.O.S. The car was over styled and many things suffered from it. The battery was hidden up under the left-front wheel. The engine air intake was down and to the left and hitting a big puddle (happens quite a bit on the Wet Coast) could cause water to be sucked into the engine and destroy it. We had more than a few of these. The a/c broke right after warranty and replacing the coil meant taking out the dash, a twelve hour job. The brakes were dreadful, here in mountain country the whole shebag would be toast in 20,000 km. The exhaust manifolds cooked the steering gear.
I could go on and on but these cars were so bad, and their Japanese competition so good, we almost never say a customer buy another one.
Canucknucklehead, you should write a story about what you saw in the field with various brands during your time as a service advisor. That would be an interesting read!
+1.
I only worked for GM and Chrysler. However, my parents owned a Firestone franchise in from 1980-1997 so I saw everything that was out of warranty.
The American stuff was utter crapola. Poorly designed, hard to work on and just plan crap. They lost a load of customers in that era. They simply went and bought Japanese. It was pretty stressful having to tell an irate owner his $30k dream boat needed a $2000 repair after four years.
The flood of Japanese cars killed our business since they didn’t need large retail repairs at low kms. By 1993 the Tempos and Luminas were in the junkyard, replaced by Corollas and Accords. We only saw them for brakes and oil changes. Very easy cars to work on and very reliable, especially on Vancouver Island where winters are mild, roads smooth and distances short. We had made a small killing on GM intakes and Ford transmissions. An intake netted us $500 after all was paid and that was half what GM was charging. You don’t do intakes on a Civic after five years. Hell, I don’t ever remember doing an intake gasket on anything Japanese.
Suffice to say I only drive Honda products now. Enough said.
Sorry, but the battery in my LHS is under the hood.
It is a second generation one, then.
Our ’96 New Yorker has the battery right out in the open, up high. Easy to change. 2nd gen. started with the ’98.
Apparently you haven’t heard of the Toyota sludge, engine failure/intake issues on the 2.2 and 3 liter V6 engines from the 90’s up to 2009 or so. It is all over the internet and we have encountered many engine failures at auctions, our dealership and from disgruntled owners. Or how about the famous Nissan catalytic converter failures that take out engines in the process. Japan made plenty of crap back then just not as much as we did.
What Chrysler committed to was buying a certain number of 3.0L PRV V6 engines from Renault (I seem to recall it was 300,000). Even with the Monaco, I don’t think they ever hit the set number and ended up paying the penalties.
My 2nd generation LHS was a pretty good car to use, comfortable, nice ride, a bit of decent handling but it showed it is flaws in the little stuff. A/C, suspension, oil leaks, etc. It always looked sharp though in an almost “swoopy generic large car” way. Without the grille wings there was no sign it was even a Chrysler. The deprecation worked out in my favor as I picked up a car of substance for less than a comprable LeSabre and this was Park Avenue comfort.
I guess the spiritual desendants of these cars are the 300, the Lucerne, even the Avalon. I think the Taurus picked up some of the retail sales of the Crown Vic. They are still out there if you want one, but I think fewer people want one. I have to admit visually I am drawn to luxo barges but I really like the convenience of a hatchback. I had replaced a long line of barges with an SUV, got used to the box out back, then downsized into an LHS, but rent hatchbacks for work and really appreciate the whole crossover appeal. Maybe a Magnum would be a good compromise(but I dislike its sporty pretensions perhaps a 300 T&C edition would have scratched the itch a bit more).
That 1st gen New Yorker/LHS roofline while Jaguar-esque I think was inspired but the classic Bugattis. Lincoln stole their thunder by applying this aesthetic to the final Town Car.
One thing I have to say about the LHS that was a definite positive was the physical space. It was truly a comfortable 3 across the rear bench full sized sedan. It happily hauled 4 friends and camping gear for 2 week road trips, much in the same way that a full sized American Car always did. And I would say all full sized cars of the 1990s were still able to be optioned to be better dynamic drivers than any SUV. Add into that that I normally got 21-23mpg in highway driving, and I never understood why people flocked to SUVs in such high numbers.
In a contemporary V8 powered Ford Explorer, for instance, you had to order the V8 to get decent performance, while sacrificing 8-10mpg compared to a full sized sedan. Plus the back seat in the first generation Explorer (and most mid sized SUVs) was uncomfortably close to the floor. Add in the tippy handling that most full sized cars banished 20 years before… and the confusion still mounts.
Then again each car I’ve had since has gotten smaller. The older Eighty Eight that replaced it was only 196 inches long, close to a foot shorter, which made it more reasonable to own moving for college to San Francisco and its parking challenges. Then I bottomed out with a MkII Jetta GLX, and now am on my second W123 Benz. I don’t know if I need the space for a barge anymore, but they sure are comfortable.
Owners of this car now drive Avalons.
Chrysler was a non existant brand here during the 90s the ocasional Jeep got here but not well received and some Neons tried to wave the flag but no large cars made it out here untill the 300 but its Belgian not American.
As the confirmed bachelor in my own family, let me just say way to go Uncle Vic!
Is it wrong of me in hindsight (Still) to wish I got the Deuce and a Quarter instead? I still hold a grudge with my dad that I wasn’t able to actually pick a car I wanted. That was such a “once in a lifetime” moment, that I romanticize that if I picked what I wanted, I wouldn’t have been apathetic to that car, and would (maybe) still have that car 10 years later.
No, it isn’t wrong of you to want a 225, but if your uncle is the same kind of confirmed bachelor I am, we need our big, old, fluffy cars…
Don’t know if it’s “wrong”, but you are certainly a spoiled brat to smash a perfectly good LHS just because you wanted something else.
I really enjoyed the write-up, other than that horrifying disclosure. Maybe you shouldn’t mention it when you do incredibly idiotic things like that.
I don’t think it was spoiled of me to avoid hitting a stalled car (It seems that you gleamed over that sentence).
The insurance totaled the car out, and I didn’t particularly have any deep affection to it. And even in well preserved condition the Insurance company only gave me $1700 for it, which reflects the poor resale value of them. My Uncle bought it for $8,000 5 years after it originally sold for the nearly $30,000 plus tax. In comparison, My dad’s Eighty Eight only depreciated to $16,500 after it initially sold for $25,000 and some change 3 years before he bought it.
Call it idiotic, but I took legit insurance money and bought a used car based on resale value and brand loyalty. It also had mechanical issues that would have been equal to the insurance pay out (I’m sure Canucklehead could confirm I might have *just* broken even with a rebuild or replacement of the Ultradrive).
Please accept my apology. I misread and thought you deliberately totalled the car. My Bad!
You didn’t misread, that’s exactly what is implied by the way it is written.
…because I premeditated totaling out a car in the split second I decided to swerve right and went over a side of an overpass…
I remember when these came out and Car and Driver proclaimed that “words like land yacht and barge are now strictly nautical terms. Wire wheels, vinyl roofs, and opera lights are forever banished from American cars…” Those lines still make me laugh my butt off.
Always liked the shape of these and during my undergrad years (1995-1999) my college president leased a New Yorker (black with grey leather interior) I thought it was a decent car but it sure was miles of sheetmetal to wash, wax, and detail when it was decided that I (student maint dept worker) would be the one to get it ready to be returned to the dealer.
What happened to these buyers? The other posters have it correct, Dr. Harris (the aforementioned president) replaced his New Yorker with a Mercury Mountaineer.
What happened to these buyers?
They switched over to more reliable and quieter inside Grand Marquis and Town Cars.
While there is some hard plastic in the interior I don’t think that “acres of hard black plastic” is by any means accurate. Mine is a `96, has 127k on it, and yes, the AC still works. Amazingly enough, everything still works. At 207 inches long, it is a mere five inches short of a `77-90 GM B-body, but with A LOT more space. Not only are these good highway cars, but they handle decently to boot. I honestly never expected to like this car so much, but it won me over. Most contemporary GMs will undoubtedly be blinking their ABS lights or replacing the intake manifold on their Series II 3800.
For a car that stickered over $30,000 when new, there was a lot more places in the interior that I got my knuckles ashy and scraped in the interior than my Dad’s same year Eighty Eight Royale LS (Notably the console, the B pillar grabbing the seatbelts, or wiping the dash during cleaning) which was $25,000 out the door as new. As Car & Driver also noted there were plenty of exposed screws in places you wouldn’t see in a Park Avenue of the same vintage.
I think I also really didn’t care for the color combo I had. The Graphite interior was a dark sad place, but LHS’s with the cream or tan interiors seem a bit more bright and cheery, especially when outfitted with a sunroof (which I also didn’t have).
My Dad’s Eighty Eight had to have the manifold gaskets replaced (like every Series II 3800) but in defense of that cost cutting measure, it’s not a labor time extensive process, and therefore easier to resolve if caught in time with a definitive solution. Also if I remember correctly there was enough customer fury to put a lawsuit/recall on it to correct those. Chrysler with the wonky Ultradrive was such a temperamental beast to deal with, with hours of diagnosis and service technicians that only had familiarity with FWD Torqueflites.
All Domestic luxobarges of that era had some Achilles heel (The 88-94 Continentals were cursed with the Essex 3.8 that blew head gaskets and the equally sketchy ATX) that put off a number of buyers and split the market to SUVs and further upmarket (or cars marching downmarket) offerings. This was also the era that the W210 E class marched far enough downmarket to not be too out of reach of your typical luxo barge buyer.
You’re right of course, I was just being your typical annoying blogger. My LHS is that all-too-common Platinum color and has the three-tone tan-beige-black interior with Homelink and a sun roof. I am really not sure how I haven’t had any issues with my Ultradrive, but it’s made it this far with no issues, so perhaps it was built on a Wednesday, in the early morning. I should note that my aunt has a `97 LeSabre and to date, it is in the shop more often than the Chrysler and the Volvo combined. It’s not a bad car, but I don’t think it is anywhere near as nice as the `91-`95 H bodies.
Judging by nearly 30 year experience, working at a used dealership for many years right up to the present, ownership of both brand cars and seeing what is left on the road running strong I would hands down choose the 3800 equipped GM full size cars over any of these LH cars. Going 100 K and over in one of these and not having any of the well known issues is indeed a super rare occurrence and hard to believe. Even the Chrysler mechanic that used to work for us 10 years ago warned us about buying these at the auction and retailing them citing numerous issues to look out for.
Recently I have started seeing a well-kept LHS around town now and then. It obviously does not follow the blocky 2010’s design ethic, but to my eyes it does not look dated. In fact, my first thought was that if someone started making this today for the first time, people would be applauding it as a fresh and sleek new design departure, with an open and airy passenger cabin, good visibility all around, and enough rear overhang to add balance to the design and also avoid the mail-slot trunk openings that have become so common.
Other than the Lincoln Town Car ( which got the ax last year, along with its fleet-only Crown Vic cousin ), the only modern car I see that really hearkens back to the land yachts of old is the current-generation Lexus LS460L ( the long-wheelbase variant ).
I’ve sat and rode in these cars and they’re beasts. Several inches longer and nearly 600 lbs. heavier than the LS400 that took the automotive world by storm two decades ago. I’m the proud owner of a clean, 100,000 mile ’95 LS400 by the way 🙂 .
Yeah, I know, they’re Japanese rather than American, but who cares? As more company mergers progress, a car’s nationality is becoming steadily more ambiguous anyway.
As those LS460s get older and less expensive, I think they’ll make the perfect luxo-barge for aging Gen-Xers ( like myself ) who want modern technology, safety, and economy but still have fond memories of riding in their grandparents’ or aging parents’ Detroit land yacht, but DON’T want to follow the herd by getting an SUV.
Yup, an early LS is definately a car I’d love to own. Still just gorgeous today to me.
The LHS and lesser New Yorker were 2 of the best looking large cars out there when they were new, at least to my eye.
In about 1999 I test drove one, probably a ’96 or ’97. It had everything including the roof and was a very clean example. The impression it gave me was that of coarseness. It felt…gritty, at least in relation to how a car that slick looking would be expected to drive. Noisy. Not especially smooth riding.
BUT it had acres of room, lots of features and doodads, a nice dash layout, a good driving position, and if it didn’t ride well, it did handle well.
I’d love to have one as a DD, but frankly, you just can’t trust the transmissions in them just as in soooo many other American cars of this era. A $1500 cheapie rebuild every 3 years doesn’t cut it with me. I’d very possibly own a teal-colored ’91 Fifth Avenue in time warp conditon I could have had for $1000 but for the same spooky tranny fears. That, and when I went to buy it the ABS controller had failed and I about broke the driver’s seatback trying to press the pedal hard enough without power assist before I rolled into a busy 4 lane state highway. Kind of blunts the fun of buying any car.
I see an interesting parallel with the LH cars and the 1957 Forward Look Chryslers. Their impact was similar: They were lookers compared to especially their GM competition, but as I’ve noted people say the Forward Look Chryslers, although technically better driving than the competition, they had a lack of sound isolation and general tinniness that made them feel cheap, especially the DeSoto and Chrysler variants that were supposed to feel substantial.
Also, for whatever reason the “Cab Forward” look became dated as quickly as Tailfins did. I don’t know who was the first offender of the high beltline overly secure sensation in sedans (Some would point to the first 300, but I would point to the first CTS) but the large glass area common to all LH cars is now decidely out of vogue.
Very interesting comparison, and I likewise agree about the CTS being as good an early example of the thick-waisted cars we see today as any. I personally prefer lots of glass, though.
The 2nd gen LHS that later got renamed the Concorde was a great looking car. Love to have one of those too just on styling and roominess alone, but still wouldn’t trust one.
Interesting comparison of the cab-forward cars with the 1957 Chryslers. I remember reading a Car and Driver test where one of the reviewers said that the car in question (can’t remember whether it was a Chrysler or a Dodge) reminded him of the 1957 Mopars in the overall freshness of design, but he hoped that the corporation didn’t eventually go the way of its 1961 models.
The glassy greenhouse with a low beltline, however, was not a Chrysler innovation…Honda used it for the 1988-91 Civics and 1986-89 and 1990-93 Accords. The Hondas, however, were definitely not cab-forward designs.
I would agree that reliability issues and an overall “tinny” feeling compared to the competition sunk these cars. I remember Bob Lutz making dismissive comments regarding the importance of quality and reliability when these cars were introduced.
In many ways, this was a replay of the 1957 fiasco. The difference was that, by the 1990s, cars of this type were more of a sideline for Chrysler, as the minivans, Jeep Grand Cherokees and Dodge Ram pickups were largely paying the bills. In 1957, Chrysler redesigned its bread-and-butter lines, and really suffered when customers began rejecting them in 1958 and 1959 for build quality issues and the overemphasis on tailfins.
My parents had the Chrysler Concorde variation of this line of cars, a 1995 in that dark green metallic with the gray interior.
I don’t know what motor was in it, but it has those exact same wheels and they bought it about 6 months old in 1995 and they drove it on at least 2 road trips across country. It’s biggest issue was the AM/FM radio sucked as the power amp barely pumped out volume and you had to turn it WAY up to run a CD to cassette adaptor and a portable CD player or heck, even a tape to get any volume and when you did, you’d get plenty of amp hiss from the higher than normal volume setting.
I don’t think they had any mechanical issues with that car in the years they had it (1995-1999) before my Mom sold it after my Dad died more due to the fact that it was just to big for her as a then new widow in her 60’s still.
She would replace it with a used 1997 Honda Accord EX with leather and automatic,which the would subsequently replace with a 1 year old used 1994 Dodge Stratus that she still drives to this day and has since the spring of 1995.
We have 2 of the 2.7 1999 Dodge Intrepids that we rely on for Daily Duty.
Rule #1 Check Oil OFTEN and ONLY USE Mobil 1 or Good Quality Synthetic Oil, Hopefully it will keep their arteries unclogged so the engine doesn’t blow. Knock on Wood.
Let’s just say Its Roomy, fairly good acceleration, excellent AC(When its Freon Is Full) —– That was the reason “Workin” AC and it being 10 years newer that I sold My 1989 Mustang GT CONVERTIBLE to drive this First Dodge , 4 door, green boring middle age sedan that reminds me of my Dad… Is That Why I sold the Mustang? Was IT AC???? Probly its Hot in the LA Valley, and Traffic and Crimew Make open motoring seem vulnerable to elements etc.
But I Think These Intrepids still Look contemporary, Much Of the Jaguar Sedan cues seem based on the Intrepids even… similar 4 door coupe wedge shape areodynamically 1990s.
This is interesting. Never having driven or sat in an LH…I always thought they were pretty slick units. Design-wise, they broke barriers. Style-wise…they were so far removed from the Brougham Era padded cells, they were sedans I’d actually consider owning.
I knew they had some issues. I didn’t know they were ticking time bombs…I guess the proof is, they’re rapidly disappearing. So it goes…
I do know I was disgusted when the first major move Daimler made was to abandon the LH design in favor of rear-wheel-drive obsolete Mercedes models. What a step backwards. And even now, as ChryCo flails as to which way to go…I don’t know why they don’t just dust off the designs, strip the Cosmoline off the tooling, and bring out an ubdated version of the LH or LHS.
It was, IMHO, a tremendous automotive evolution that shouldn’t have become a dead end.
“I don’t know why they don’t just dust off the designs, strip the Cosmoline off the tooling, and bring out an updated version of the LH or LHS.’
Just what I was thinking.
If I remember correctly all these LH versions were basically thin skined rebodied Renault 25s. Seems there is much to be said for plastic surgery. Not so much for Chrysler engineering. Ah, c’est la vie. Who does not love a lovely lady.
Now when Mercedes got hold of Chrysler that was a gang bang rape, n’est pas?
So guesses only correct you blame all the problems for they being really French cars underneath it all. Current problems the German pigs. Do not really fear until the italians really get Chrysler up to speed. Tony, Tony, Tony…..
As the piece states, their concept was based on the Eagle Premier (which was derived from the Renault 25). However the drivetrain was strictly Chrysler, the 3.3L V6 the first in house Chrysler V6, the 3.5 the same block bored out with SOHC heads. And the Ultra Drive was the first electronic 4 speed automatic designed by an American Manufacturer if I remember correctly (beating GMs 4T60-E to cars by a season or two).
So you really can’t, beyond the concept, blame Renault for the flaws of the LH cars, just like you can’t blame the W210 Benz for the horrible 2.7L V6 in the basic LX platform cars
And from what I have heard, the LX and LH share some things as well. I know for certain that you can convert a LH to RWD.
Why on earth would anybody want to convert an LH to rear wheel drive? It would cost many times what the car was worth.
I’ve read several times that the LH platform was designed to accomodate FWD or RWD, and the later LX platform was derived from the LH.
I don’t know about the rest of the car, but I’ve spent real time driving both a 300C and a Benz E320, and I’m here to tell you the ass of an LX has got tons of Benz DNA. They both take the EXACT same hunker on the outside rear tire when you’re coming out of a corner hard on the throttle.
+1. Same front plow going in, rear hunker going out, and “WTF’s happening” through the tiller all the way.
I remember that, as well; Chrysler told the press at launch that the platform could take RWD or AWD.
A couple of factoids and/or questions that popped into my head about the LH cars:
It seems like I remember reading that somehow, Honda helped Chrysler in the early design phases of designing the UltraDrive transverse automatic. Does anyone else remember anything about this?
Also, the guy you most often see credited with designing the LH cars, Tom Gale, also supposedly designed the 1988 New Yorker/Dodge Dynasty, and the later New Yorker Fifth Avenue and Imperial. Can you imagine one guy drawing up plans for such different cars? I guess when all you have to work with for the New Yorker/Dynasty duo is a distorted, stretched K-based minivan chassis, you could do worse than the ’88 New Yorker. And I still like the lines of them, sucker that I am.
I had never heard that Honda helped with the design of UltraDrive transmission. That would be interesting, if true.
I do know that, when Chrysler again hit the skids in the late 1980s, Iacocca created an internal committee to study how Honda developed vehicles, and Honda cooperated by allowing a fair amount of access to Chrysler’s team.
If I recall correctly, Iacocca allowed the use of the team approach for the development of the cab-forward cars because it was similar to the vehicle development process Honda used.
I wouldn’t surprise me that Tom Gale designed both the 1988 New Yorker and Dynasty and the cab-forward cars, although I had read that Chrysler’s design department was heavily influenced by former Ford personnel until Gale took over. Iacocca was at first openly derisive of the new aerodynamic designs pioneered by the Ford Thunderbird and Taurus. He favored a more traditional approach, which was epitomized by the late 1980s New Yorker, Imperial and Dynasty. Those cars received a fair mount of criticism at the time for being out-of-date. Until Gale was completely in charge of the studios, however, he probably worked under guidelines set down by the studio chief, which were undoubtedly in synch with Iacocca’s wishes.
Iacocca took a keen interest in what came out of the design studios, and was not hesistant to spell out the overall design theme that new cars should follow. He did this while at Ford, too…one of Henry Ford II’s criticisms of Ford design chief Gene Bordinat was that he listened too closely to Iacocca.
Iacocca favored traditional, formal rooflines, grilles and front ends. He never really moved much beyond the 1968 Continental Mark III as a design inspiration. If Iacocca wanted a New Yorker and a Dynasty that took design cues from the Continental Marks of the 1960s and 1970s, Gale (and other designers) would give him what he wanted. Remember that Chrysler under Iacocca, much like Ford under Henry Ford II, was not a democracy by any means.
By the late 1980s, this theme had run its course, but it took another crisis at Chrysler to convince Iacocca that the company needed to change course, and fast. The crisis probably gave Gale and other designers the opportunity to create vehicles that were more in line with THEIR tastes.
It was much like Harley Earl at GM after 1956 – he had been successful for so long, that he no longer realized that he was out of touch with a large segment of the car-buying public.
The Portofino show car of the mid-eighties helped pave the way for the LH cars- they just toured it as a “Lamborghini”, I think Iaccoca liked it so that helped him see the light. These were totally the spiritual descendants of the Forward Look cars, poor Chrysler has to do that every few generations to get noticed by all of the cool kids. The LX cars are so ubiquitous and have so much “bling” associations now but when they came out in 2005 they were head turners and everyone went on about the “rebirth of the classic american car”, etc. Just like when the LH cars came out in the early 90’s. Anyone out there watch Viper? An entire alternate universe where every vehicle was a Chrysler product. Reminded me of those classic shows where the cars were “Provided by the Ford Motor Company” -Quinn Martin productions was Ford heavy, and of course Green Acres or “The Chrysler Corporation” except for there old truck everyone on the Beverly Hillbilies drove Chryslers- Miss Hathaway’s Plymouth convertibles and Mr. Drysdale’s Imperial Limousines. Those were the days!
Yes and Mr Ed had and pushed Studebakers. Much 2 my interest. I had no idea they were still a competitor.
Love Green Acres & The Beverly Hillbillies as Shows go. They are in the car a lot.
LOL Funny Lisa Douglas, and the gang from Hootasville.!
Yes I Miss Those days.
There were a lot of good shows in the sixties. A good time to be growing up.
According to what I’ve read about it, it was the AMC management and engineering people, led by François Castaing, who pushed the “team” approach. Most likely it was a Renault practice – possibly they, too, learned it from Honda.
It may well have been that Honda was doing the same thing that persuaded Lido that it was a practice worth trying; but the Platform-Team apprach, along with the LH concept and the Eagle Premier as a test mule…all came from the AMC acquisition.
Geeber, I sure agree with your analysis.
I seem to recall that the Ultra Drive was the first of any electronic automatic trannies. Design was assisted by a company called “Aisin” (?) Who made transmissions for Honda. Remember the “buzz tic” when shifting into drive or reverse?
As for the team approach, Chrysler got that from AMC!
Ah Asin! I wonder if it was the same transmission used in some Mitsubishi cars? They had a very bad reputation in the Magna/Diamonte here.
The early ones, sure. By the time they fixed the problem, few people would trust them and sales never recovered.
Aisin-Seiki,aprt owned by Toyota, originally called Aisin-Warner, a Borg-Warner affiliate. Now largest trans mfr in the world.
That sound is the solenoid packs engaging. I happen to think its cool. Our 1996 New Yorker still has the original trans at 100,000miles. I’ve changed the fluid and filter twice.
I have to admit, I love the roofline of the LHS/New Yorker.
I’m just looking to show this off on facebook ’cause this is my first car ever and it must be green color so that who view it will believe I do have a car now! And it should have grey interior or close to the model I stated
Would like to match the same picture color model green 1997 Chrysler Intrepid sport 4 door, even on youtube will do since I saw one that was a Dodge or are these models the same it was an interior closest to grey interior
I always thought this was a beautiful car. The transmission and front wheel drive turned me off from considering one though. I kind of think the 98? Redesign of the town car looked like a bloated pregnant lhs new yorker. At least the Lincoln is red body on France v8.
Its design I have to say from the rear doors to the taillights, looked like a Toyota Echo on “steroids”.
Its design I have to say from the rear doors to the taillights, looked like a Toyota Echo on “steroids”. See my point of comparison.
Pedro: very 86 Olds Calais like as well, especially the tail lights
My Dad bought an Intrepid when they first came out and it was the most un-sedan looking 4-door I had ever seen. It also drove smaller than it looked. No barginess there.
15 years later, he bought my brother a Concorde in deep teal. Nice ride, too, though the unlamented dimbulb headlights these cars were known for were, by then, totally useless.
Had the early Intrepid from new, it was a nice car but the transmission spontaneously blew up at about 60k miles. Aisin, eh? The same tranny manufacturer that blew up in our 2000 Odyssey and 2005 Ford Five Hundred. I’m sensing a pattern here (and we are easy on cars, never have any other issues with them).
Back to the Intrepid, it was swoopy and perky and nimble, and the interior and back seat were huge (though the backseat passenger sat very low). It had a certain “fragile” feeling to it, like it would turn into a pile of rattles and parts falling off if you drove it too hard, the exact opposite of the German and Japanese cars of the time.
Ours had a built in child seat in the center rear, which “sold” the wife right away. We were not leaving the dealership without that car, the child seat “spoke” to her, very clever.
Yup, the headlights were useless. The engine layout was longitudinal, and ahead of the transmission, and hung out in front of the front wheels. We had the small engine, which had a very narrow v arrangement, which acted more like a straight six with all that low end torque.
Yeah, the other side of the lightness/nimbleness of these cars was they DID feel like they wouldn’t hold up. K-Cars had the same character.
We have a ’96 New Yorker with the Sport Suspension. It has just over 95,000 miles and with preventive maintenance, has been a great car. Trans fluid and filter replacement is VERY important- ours has been changed twice (did it myself) , which is probably why the original transmission is still running fine. Other than that, the steering rack and tie rod ends have been replaced, as well as the auxilary transmission cooler. The car handles well, and is quite nimble. I recall reading an article in Car and Driver years ago; in it Bob Lutz said they were planning a coupe as well as a five speed manual for these cars.
Pedro: here’s the picture
Executive brain fart, “let’s throw away 50 years of brand equity and give the New Yorker 2nd tier status. What do we call our new flagship. Wait I’ve got it. L H S.” What the hell is that? Lille High School? Large hooters shake? It’s bonehead executive decisions like this that give us crap names like M K S instead of Continental and Lacrosse instead of Electra.
Wow that is a blast from the past. We got a used New Yorker to replace a horrid Honda Civic sedan and had really good service out of it for 5 years. It was sold to a friend who took it way over 200,000 miles. Not a bad driver, it got great fuel mileage on the freeway and was comfortable. No regrets here.
As an avid fan of anything LH I liked these cars, but out of the first-gen LH cars, I wanted to purchase a Concorde or a Vision (ended up buying a 1997 Concorde back in 2007). Nothing wrong with this car particularly, but it was Chrysler’s Buick. Nice, no doubt, but it seemed to be “intended for senior citizen use only”. If I were 65 and not 17 at the time I would have considered an LHS or New Yorker alongside the Concorde or the Vision.
The Concorde–arguably–was a car that was suitable for the young and the old, though many of its buyers were older. My aunt Terrie purchased a ’93 back in 1995, and she was in her late 20’s, early-30s, and kept it until 2005. The Intrepid and the Vision were geared toward a more youthful crowd, no doubt.
Speaking of the New Yorker, I’d love it if Chrysler revived the name. Maybe create a sub-model within the 300 with special features and call it the “300 New Yorker”. That and the LeBaron (“200 LeBaron”, I consider my Chrysler 200 sedan a modern-day LeBaron).
Concorde and Intrepid just cannot be revived unless Chrysler is willing to pick up where it left off in regard to the cab-forward design. I will say the Tesla Model S is a great starting point–it somewhat resembles a second-gen LH car. Imagine if Chrysler bought the design from Elon Musk, tweaked it a bit, and tossed a Pentastar or even a Hemi in a RWD configuration under the hood.
Personally, I’d rather see an offshoot of the 300 be another Imperial. Stretch it out a foot or two and give it a truly upscale interior.
I thought these were ground-breaking cars when they first came out – but after several very bad experiences with various GM/Ford models in the 70s/80s, I was reluctant to part with my Toyotas which had all been bullet proof.
But when the second generation came out in ’99, I decided to give the US manufacturers one more try and bought a beautiful white 99 LHS. It was a revelation – and the car that restored my faith in the big 3.
It was beautifully styled – more sleek Jaguar than anything that brand was building at the time. Very roomy – I am 6’6 and with the drivers seat set for me I still had 3 inches of knee room in the back. The 3.5L V6 was very strong (250 hp) and had a very nice deep bass growl.
Given the problems others have said these cars had, I guess i was lucky – mine never gave me a concern, though I serviced it as recommended.
Bob Lutz goes into detail in his book about how he, Francois Castainge, and Tom Gale fought to get the first generation cars into production over the objections of Iacocca who wanted a more traditionally styled car (vinyl roof, chrome, etc.).
I wish I could take issue with the Canuck’s impressions of the LH cars, but I can’t.
I liked the look of these when new – even posted a magazine fold-out ad in my room – but owning an Intrepid made me feel like a sucker who’d been conned, in a way that K-cars never did.
I clearly remember as a 22 year old when these first came out and was really impressed by the cab forward engineering, the styling and interior room. It also boasted a SOHC engine option with a full 214 HP which was a lot at the time. We had just opened up our first used car dealership at the time so started getting thick with the local new car dealerships buying many of there used trade ins etc.
I told Ryan Olds Pontiac to give us a call when a 1993 Dodge Intrepid came in, especially if it had the 3.5 V6 option. Well a clean 23K mile in medium blue example did come in within a month from a rental agency with the 3.5 and polycast wheels plus the more desirable floor shifter so we went racing over to test drive it.
Our very first impression was from the boring gray interior and flimsy already broken cup holder that came out in my hand when pulled out. I fired her up and was expecting to be blown away but was instead met with a barrage of engine noise, a clunky harsh shifting transmission, severe brake shutter and loads of road noise. I literally had to raise my voice so my partner could even hear me. The car sure did handle well enough, was roomy and the seats were comfortable. But the interior was already showing signs of wear with the already mentioned broken fold out cup holder, a loose wobbly center console and the passenger side air bad cover was starting to pop up out of place. Overall the interior was very drab and cheap and disappointing but the white faced gauges were pretty neat. While the 214 HP 3.5 was quick enough the Ultra drive transmission sapped some of it’s power and I think held this engine back and it never really felt like it’s power rating. We brought the car back and handed the sales lady the keys and I told her I would think about it and mentioned the broken cup holder and shuddering brake rotors. We promptly got back into our 1992 Delta 88 and were amazed at the difference. No the handling was not as good. But the ride was smoother, road noise was way lower and the engine far quieter. It also didn’t seem much slower overall despite the 44 HP deficit and the annoying engine noise and vibration in the steering wheel were virtually absent. The GM 4T60E is also a far superior unit as far as operation compared to the Ultra-junk unit in the Chrysler products. The Olds also had a much nicer interior and ours was in a nice shade of dark blue. The Interpid’s interior reminded of a low rent K-car where the Olds was nearly as nice as a top shelf 98 which was surprising considering the similarities in retail price similarly equipped.