The only way to really know a car is take a test drive. Having long admired the 1975 Peugeot 604, I finally tracked one down and fired it up. What did I find?
Before I get to my discoveries, let´s take a quick look at the background to the 604´s development. [A longer discussion is here]. The French know the period from 1955 to 1975 as “les trentes glorieuses” or “the glorious thirty”. The rising economic tide seemed to lift all boats: the average French worker´s salary rose 170% during that time. Customers could afford more. At precisely the end of this period, the beginning a protracted malaise, Peugeot launched their interpretation of the large, luxury car: the V6-powered, rear-drive 604.
Many know the car as “the French Mercedes”, being as it is a clear response to Benz´s W-114 of 1968. Peugeot wanted to offer increasingly affluent customers a domestic product other than the beautiful but unorthodox Citroen DS which, in 1975, had reached two decades in production. Things didn´t work out for Peugeot and today most know the 604 only for being a bit of a glorious failure, despite the car receiving glowing reviews for ride-quality, road-holding, interior comfort and its excellent steering. Sales quickly declined after a few years and by 1980 the car had been overshadowed by the slightly smaller Peugeot 505 sedan and the Mercedes W-123 of 1976, the latter pretty much the gold standard of quality and durability.
For me testing a 1975 Peugeot 604 SL amounted to as much a test of the road-tests as the car. As I approached the vehicle, I wondered which elements of the reviews I would agree with. After ten years reading about the 604, the experience proved to be enlightening.
Even if modern cars have grown considerably, the 604 retains its dignity. As you approach the 604 you notice its carefully-judged proportions. The glasshouse sits well back from the front axle and the C-pillar perches correctly over the rear-axle. A single line runs down the body-side, emphasising length and stability. In comparison with either the W-114 or W-123, the Peugeot is decidedly crisp and minimal. The rather intricate chrome window-frames set off the deep and lustrous paint-work. The bonnet´s expanse of metal seems enormous while the simple slatted grille must be understood as an expression of French modernism and opposed to Mercedes´ classically conservative alternative.
Sitting inside the car you notice a number of features. It is entirely correct that the rear compartment is as advertised: fabulously comfortable. The foot-wells provide truly ample legroom. More astoundingly, the rear seats are a leather-upholstered rebuke to two decades of thinking on what constitutes a decent place for passengers. It´s no exaggeration to say that on their own the rear seats of the 604 constitute a compelling reason to own one of these cars. Peugeot simply had a different idea of how to create a sense of well-being. The chairs are sculpted beautifully and hold you in place but also yield perfectly. I can only wonder how we ended up with the unwelcoming hardness that is the standard in modern seating. Seats, after all are a part of the suspension system, if you want to see things holistically. For the record, the 604´s rear accommodation bests the Opel Senator “A” for legroom, the Mercedes W-123 for cushiness and the Citroen CX for width and opulence.
Having explored the rear of the cabin I moved to the driver´s seat and prepared myself to set off. Readers of the 604´s press clippings will be wondering if the driving position lived up to its billing as being somewhat strange. Yes and no is the answer. If you are average-of-leg or longer you´ll have no problems. If you are short of leg then Peugeot´s eccentric arc of seat travel will be a problem: as you slide the driver´s seat forward it tilts downward. Any really short people will find themselves deprived of underthigh support. Quite why Peugeot never addressed this shortcoming, raised in many reviews, is hard to understand. Today I deem it to be an irrelevance but yes, Peugeot really did opt for a driving position that alienated anyone in the lowest percentiles of leg-length.
But me: I got seated just fine. The steering wheel had a delightfully thin rim; ahead of me the instruments could be seen, clearly laid out. The press considered the dashboard to be an untidy affair and there an infelicities of detailing. My impression is that while it´s no design classic, it´s about acceptable for the standards of the time. Once driving you don´t notice it anyway such is the impression of comfort and spaciousness conjoured by the rest of the car. My theory is that the dashboard may have looked good as a 2-D drawing but when translated into three-dimensions and viewed from the sides it lacks coherence. It´s here that the jeers of Mercedes will resound the loudest.
The test car had the GM-supplied automatic transmission (a four speed manual could be had) and the standard 2.6 litre triple-carburetted engine. It had 32,000 km on the odometer and everything was in good condition. The car started up with a characterful dry roar and no vibrations could be felt in the cabin on idle (from outside the car´s engine is slightly louder than you´d expect). Pushing the selector into D the car moves off smoothly and as you step on the gas there´s a firm but polite shove. With the automatic transmission the 604 is not fast by today´s standards. At the same time, it´s rapid enough, changes fluently and encourages a different style of driving, one focusing on smoothness, relaxation and calm. According to Motor Trend (1977) it was fast enough to compete with the Mercedes 280E and 300D if not the 280S. Nought to sixty takes just under ten seconds.
The steering: Motor Trend said it was of “surpassing excellence that must to be experienced to be truly appreciated”. My impressions concur in that the rack-and-pinion steering has a quality lacking from modern cars in that you get a clear idea of what the front wheels are doing and the response is precise and immediate. In the context of modern steering, it has 3.5 turns lock-to-lock which means you must adjust somewhat. I noticed in my drive that the Peugeot is delightfully manouevrable. You can see all four corners of the car with ease; the light but feelsome steering helping out enormously. Again to compare, a Citroen CX has a much dartier steering due to the smaller ratio and the centre-point axle geometry. An Opel Senator is more ponderous, as is a W-123.
Lastly, the press noted the Peugeot´s ride quality. Autocar (1977) talked of the “classic French recipe of long wheel travel and superbly progressive damping”. The UK´s Car magazine (1977) said the 604 “was vastly ahead of its rivals”, those being the BMW 728 and Mercedes 280E. In 1980, Car wrote that the Mercedes 380 SEL lacked the “ultimate drive comfort of a Jaguar or Peugeot 604”. Those are high standards. I found that Peugeot´s formula involved something I can only call gliding insulation from the uneven urban roads of my test route. Unavoidably, with 40 years of development dividing a modern car from the 604, it feels less insulated than you´d expect now. When you combine the steering, seating and smooth, gliding ride you get a laid-back and soothing drive that at least lives up to expectations. Interestingly, the 1995 Peugeot 406 has precisely the same character despite the quicker steering ratio and lower profile tyres.
In summing up, the road tests proved to be quite accurate in some ways yet I feel the focus on certain aspects of the car (the dash design and the seating position) places too much emphasis on demerits that are obviated by the car´s positive qualities. I can see why the Mercedes W-123 has enjoyed such enduring appeal if one is very concerned with the perceived quality of the interior and exterior trim. But dynamically the Peugeot demonstrates a qualitatively different and indeed superior approach to comfort and driving quality.
I would argue that the reasons the 604 didn´t succeed as much as it should have are to do with factors extraneous to the car: the engine range needed to be far broader, for example. One petrol and one turbo-diesel unit simply could not match Mercedes or Ford´s range of four and six cylinder petrol and diesel motors. Several other large cars came on the market at around the same offering intense competition. And Peugeot themselves also undercut the 604 by offering the 505 in 1979. It had a very similar size but with more engines to choose from, a wagon variant and a price that came in at 30% less than its slightly bigger sister. The fuel crises of the ´seventies also reduced the appeal of the 604 whose 22 mpg must have seemed profligate though not that much different to its peers. More than anything, a long-term change in focus from qualitative driving appeal to quantitative factors (speed more than anything) meant customers probably didn´t understand Peugeot´s attributes. For anyone interested in driving quality and comfort, the Peugeot 604 deserves re-appraisal.
[Thanks to Urs-Christoph Ernst at Faire-Gebrauchte in Freiburg, Germany for providing the car for this review.]
It’s a shame that the 604 didn’t succeed. It’s a beautiful looking car. It has a lot of things that would’ve made it a great contender to compete against the likes of Mercedes-Benz, BMW, etc. Among the things that should’ve been offered were more engine choices. One gasoline (petrol) and one turbo diesel engine, while good engines, isn’t going to please everyone who wants to buy the car.
Citroën made the same mistake of offering a limited range of large V6 petrol and diesel motors for its C6 at the introduction. The French buyers baulked and stayed away from C6 despite its amazingly avant-garde tribute to DS.
Eventually, Citroën realised the lapse in its judgment and added four-cylinder motors a year later when its twin C5 was introduced. That didn’t help with sales that had been declining every year until its demise in 2012.
Excellent article!
Is there any car available today that embodies this Peugeot’s qualitative driving appeal?
My Peugeot driving experience is limited to the 304. The modern car I drove coming close is an ’08 Hyundai Sonata 4cylinder.
Today’s Peugeot 408 is a long-wheelbase version of the 308 with unique rear styling – just as the 604 was a long-wheelbase version of the 504. It has entirely different market positioning, though – the 408 doesn’t pretend to be a luxury car but rather is sold as a biggish budget-oriented family car / taxicab.
Thanks, Stanislav.
One thing I should have put in my comment above: I was thinking of the US market. Peugeot is absent there.
To answer your question, a Peugeot 406 seems to do everything the 604 does. The steering, ride and interior comfort are excellent. I’ve driven this car and it’s demerits are quite trivial given its strengths. Those are that it has so very dreary inside and very plain outside. Only a few cars were sold with either warm coloured fabrics or leather. The 1.8 litre has the best steering (narrower tyres) while the V6 has more power but is a shade less communicative. They are very, very good cars. The BMWs and Mercedes that trump the 406 for outright speed or high level roadholding are not really comparable in that they are compromised and vastly more expensive. I love my gorgeously styled Citroen XM but the 406 is better in every way except looks.
I do agree with the 406, it’s nice and comfortable to drive. To bad the quality is not the best. A family member bought one new in 2000, and drove it 12 years and nearly 350.000 kms. The engine was great (2.0 HDI) in terms of reliability, not so much on power or smoothness.., and it nearly did not rust at all. But it seems like everything else was made of low grade material. wheel bearings every 100.000-130.000 kms, clutch (on warranty) after 70.000 kms, some ball joints and other suspension parts and a lot of brakes, the car rode about 100 kms every day on a very smooth road, but the rotors was short lived, 60-100.000 kms. Some electrical misses like power windows, problems with the AC, and some minor problems all the way, like 3 alternators, 2 starters +++. It was a long ownership, and the car was replaced with a 508, who has proved to be a much better car, however it’s not so quiet and the ride is kind of harsh.
I don’t want to dismiss your experience out of hand but all that sounds like routine wear and tear. The car I know (family member) has been in service without any notable problems for about nine years. In the same time my brother became exhausted by his base model 3-series and is tiring of his Passat wagon. I mention those just to say that every car has its weakness. The 406 seems to me to have had costs cut in places where the compromise is at least intelligible: the a-pillar trim is hard plastic not cloth; the seat belt feeder slot on the b-pillar is been cut by 15 years of the belt’s friction; the boot carpet’s thin black stuff and not lovingly tailored; the engine bay looks untidy; the exterior trim lacks brightwork. But that said, none of that matters because it rides and handles so well and I don’t think it’s worse than Ford, Opel or Renault and possibly as good as a 1995 BMW or Audi when all factors are considered.
No, some of it was routine and normal tear and wear, but things like the brakes, he drove a 95 Voyager automatic before this Peugeot, had very short lifespan. The heavyer Voyager with automatics didn’t need to change brakes once in the 150.000 kms he drove it. The Peugeot every 60-80.000 km. He really liked the way the car drove, that’s the reason why he kept it for so long before he got the 508. The car was at some warranty fixes (3 years warranty in Norway then, 5 years now), stabilizer bar links about 3-4 times, one alternator, driver seat motor and heater, radio, clutch and as I remember for rust under the hood. That said, this car is extremely rust proof.
So the 406 was in my and his eyes a very, very good and comfortable car to drive. Way better than any Passat, Mondeo or cars that costs about the same. The reliability was not the best, but then, a Passat is no better, German cars can, after 100.000 miles, be a disaster for the owner.
To compare with my 93 Grand Cherokee with 340.000 kms, the Jeep working good, some tear and wear and the AC doesn’t work, but everything else work. Yes the rear end maked a noise and I changed the axle this year, and the 4.0 clatter at hot idle, but it works without problems. It’s a simplier car, but I’m somewhat suprised that all the electrics work, it’s a full optioned Limited.
The 508 is also a nice car, a bit harsh and some more noise (like almost all new cars) compared to the 406, but the it has been very reliable, and this is the top equipped car so it has a lot of options that could possibly be problems.
Before the Voyager we had first a 87 505 Familiale GTi, then a 88 sedan 505 GTi. Before he got the sedan we test drove a V6 sedan with leather interior and my first experience with an automatic gear (I was a child back then).
Given that the 508 is probably the last Peugeot in the class, it is sad that it did not retain the traditional virtues with regard to ride quality. I suppose aiming at the world market waters down national automobile traits. I suspect modern tires are also a factor. The tires on the older models like this 604 are notably small. There were still a ton of 508’s in Paris, most of them black sedan taxis.
John, the new Peugeot 508 will be introduced next year. The only question is how the real thing will look like.
Not much of a Mercedes-Benz, at least styling-wise – it rather looks like a Lada Riva / VAZ-2105 on steroids, or a bare-bones version of an American compact car. With the marketplace already full of not-overly-successful big(gish) cars of the same size / class from Ford (euro-Granada, larger Taunus range) and Opel (Kapitan, Admiral, Diplomat, Senator), Peugeot should’ve known better than to offer a bloated version of a highly successful economy car, the 504. That has always been a poor recipe to build a luxury car, unless you were exclusively targeting taxicab companies looking for low maintenance cost / increased rear legroom.
It looks like an updated, more European Dodge Dart to me.
Which year of Dart are you thinking of?
Some of the large cars of the 70s were slowish sellers: Renault 30? The Granada and Rekord/Senator were very popular vehicles. They were the mainstream against which BMW positioned itself.
I’d also query the 504 as an “economy car”. It was not cheap and not small, rather it was a car for the person who didn’t want Ford or Opel’s everyman image but also didn’t see themselves in “specialist” cars like BMW, Alfa, Mercedes or Lancia.
By mentioning th eRenault 30 yhou made me smile.
This car is forgotten.
Thenk god it is forgotten.
It was one heap of crap same bad engine as the 604 had but packed in a FWD car which tyres would start svcreaming even if you looked at the accelerator.
The 604 had a chique dignifying appearance, the Renault 30 was a failed V6 Renault R16. The 604 had some resale value, the 30TS had none.
The first 30 TS’ses had some stupid double carb arrangement having one large dual carb and a single one to help out the dual stage carb when performance was needed (if I recall correctly)
This made the car a tremendous gas-guzzler in a time when we had an energy crisis !
The 604 was no doubt the better car, but in their eternal stupidity Peugeot put all the relais unprotected behind the car’s headlights so moist, salt with current would give you a guarantueed recipy for corrosion
But one of the relais controlled the electric radiatior fan, this electrical plumbing led to many a blown head-gasket on a 604!
While the drive of the 604 was really superior, in the meantime, the Bavarians had taken an empty plastic lunchbox, fitted under the hood of the 5-Series BMW and stuck ALL the electric components inside the box, including the fuses.
Electrics in the 604 were scattered all over the car, you were always looking for fuses, and this is why the Bavarians won.
Simple, effective and reliable.
And this where the 604 was the smoother driver of both cars, you could have a 528, the 604 was simply the better driving machine of the two, the Beamer the faster, but in the end, the 528 was no doubt the better built car, with care for detail, something people want to see in a car costing that kind of money !
And there Peugeot failed, Hard !
Beware, I was born with a lion in my cradle my dad had numerous Peugeots !
They did get it right with the 25, sort of.
It’s true that Ford, Opel, Peugeot and Renault failed as generalist builders to set foot in the luxury.
But I will always wonder how, and why, Audi did succeed…
Why and how did Audi succeed? They understood perceived quality and had access to a rather special pool of designers from the Ulm School of Design. Audi were also very consistent in their approach plus they could offer more superficial quality by having the chance to share costs of underlying quality with VW. I’ve taken a close look at 70s, 80s and 90s Audis. Whatever might be mechanically deficient is clothed in forms that demonstrate really high level industrial design awareness. Customers love it and forgive it.
And eventually they got reliable, if only recently.
I think a 604 turbodiesel with the manual would be a great commuter/daily driver. Having owned a w123 240d, I have to say that the 505 has much better driving dynamics, which one would assume would translate to the 604.
The dash and controls look like a cheapened version of the R10 dash and controls. Almost homemade.
You’ll have to help me. In what way is the 604 dash like a Renault 10’s other than the black plastic? The R10 is very strongly asymmetical; the 604’s features a broad centre console. The R10 is more horizlntal.
This is a grand “you-are-there” writeup! Nicely done.
I recall my 505 when travelling at 75 miles per hour,120 kilometres per hour,had virtually no wind noise,exceptionally quiet.I can imagine the 604 was just as serene.What a timeless and elegant design.I haven’t seen one for many years in Australia.French cars were a bit on the nose in Aust circa 1974/5 due to an atomic bomb test on an atoll in the Pacific Ocean.
The 505 was a comfortable car, quiet until I drove a 1975 Lincoln Continental Town Car. Talk about quiet and comfortable.
Body on frame, a design dating to 1965 with a stiff body and relatively few rubber mounting points at the non-vibrating points of the frame. Also twice as big and twice as heavy, and twice as much sound proofing stuff.
Why was the period from 1955 to 1975 as “les trentes glorieuses” or “the glorious thirty” when it was only 20 years? Should it have not been “les vingtaine glorieuses?” 🙂
I wondered the same thing.
I do like the 604 though. Thanks for giving us your driving impressions that we may experience it vicariously, as finding a 604 in the USA would be extremely rare!
This is why I’m not a mathematician. Yes, it’s 45 to 75.
Sorry!
There were quite a lot of these around here in Scotland in the late 70’s – damned nice looking car but they rusted insanely fast in our wet and salty winters.
Interesting embossed “woodgrain” on the shifter handle.
Ultimately, it doesn’t matter how dynamically superior this car was, when it lacked the brand cachet of greater marques. It suffered the same fate as the Volkswagen Phaeton today or the Opel Senator of yore, the problem of a plebian brand making inroads into luxury or near luxury. Remember, except for the coupes and convertibles, Peugeot had never done premium before this car. And when we’re talking this much money, people become very brand- and style conscious. The 604 may have been a great car, but it lacked the beauty and charm and above all the grace of a Jaguar. Jaguar sold well because people couldn’t understand how they got so much car for their money, but with the 604, at the end of the day all they got was a tarted up Peugeot. It simply didn’t have much that others couldn’t do better.
Edit: Perhaps I’m tough on Peugeot this week, but it’s tough love. I love the brand, I love the cars. And the things we love we hold against a higher standard. I’m tough on them, because I expect greatness. Like we all do, even when we’re talking deadly sins…
I recall one magazine at the time remarking that “French luxury cars suffered from the automotive equivalent of garlic-tainted breath” and that my particular car (Renault 30) had an interior with “all the sights, sounds and smells of a Renault 12.” But like Ingvar, I loved my big Renaults and Peugeots.
The smooth gliding ride the same as a 406, yeah I had a 98 2.1 turbo diesel 406, supremely comfortable with precise handling at any speed it could attain, beautiful cars.
I’ve just had a hoon in a 406 over Danish backroads. It’s a car I can only call “professional”. The suspension worked wonders. I had a look for one in the colour and engine spec I wanted: green metallic, beige velour or tan leather and 2.0 litre manual. None around.
Still, even in the most boring shades it’s a fabulous drive. It’s a pity most people don’t “get” such stuff.
Well, I guess the biggest problem of the 604 was its engine.
Although the 604 was in Mercedes/BMW territory, it seems that its V6 was not up to the competition.
When the famous V6 PRV was issued, it was dubbed the worst european 6 cylinders…
First, 136 bhp for a 2.8 liters isn’t much for an european 6, even by 1975 standards.
From what I read in a test drive by L’Auto Journal in 1975, it lacked low end torque and the driver needed to shift gears frequently.
Moreover, it was a true gas guzzler. L’Auto Journal did 13,75 L/100 km (17 mpg) at 100 km/h (65 mph) and 15,45 L/100 km (15 mpg) at 132 km/h (80 mph).
I can get better figures with my 350 79 Caprice which has an engine twice the size of the PRV and weights 800 lbs more than the 604.
If you add substandard built quality in comparison with Mercedes and BMW…
That’s too bad Peugeot cuts some corners that doomed the 604 because it was really a nice car.
And guess what ? Like Britney Spears, Peugeot did it again. Some 15 years later with the 605…
In my opinion, the 605 was one of the nicest design of the 90’s. Like any Peugeot, it has great handling, driving and comfort caracteristics. But Peugeot also cut some corners and rushed it on the market, GM style. So poor building quality once again. And some reliability issues to boot. Peugeot adressed this issues but it was too late. The 605 was doomed.
PRV was indeed rubbish when it came out and it took years to get it right. The later versions were reliable – very reliable even – and had acceptable power but by then the 604 was history.
Still, this was to be considered one of the best, if not THE best :
How about this?
https://driventowrite.com/2016/05/02/ashtrays-1972-fiat-130-saloon/
Funnily, the 604 was never pitted against the 130 in any tests I read. By 1975 it was evidently out of the running even if the cars were on sale together for two years. If the 604 was thirsty, the 130 was even more so. I think (not sure) that the 130 cost more than the 604.
Nice writing Richard, thanks and a very nice site as well, more stuff to read’ s always good !
Wow, great article. I felt like myself was at the 604´s wheel. Thanks!
I love the 604 since I was a child, although I´ve only seen a couple of them in the road. Not very popular in Spain due to import taxes, while the CX was made locally and therefore much cheaper.
Thank you. My aim is to provide an intelligible impression of the drive. I feel too many reviews stay too far away from the tactile aspects.
Thank you, Richard for a fine article on a very underrated automobile.
You are correct about the dynamic qualities. A lot of effort went into getting that ride, seating comfort, steering, balanced road manners, and handling. And this was 1975!
The 604’s weight distribution is similar to the 504/505 wagon’s 50/50 weight distribution, though the auto pushes it towards the front a bit. IMO, the 604 is a sublime refinement over both the 504 and 505. The feel is more solid, but not solid in the way the Teutonic Titans interpret it. But it’s definitely not numb the way so many “smooth” cars wind up being. I don’t get that Teutonic ride and seating hardness thing at all. I prefer a ride down a washboard-rough road to be a fleeting memory rather than an event that makes me question if my internal organs will need to be refastened.
And the 604’s great in snow!
I’ll never forget a late night in December 2010 where I found myself having to drive home to Cleveland’s west side via the east and west shoreways (I-90 and Rt 2). The Shoreway near downtown is only a few hundred yards from the Lake Erie shoreline.
The next day the lighthouse was covered in thick photogenic ice. Photos went viral.
But I wasn’t thinking about that at the time, what with the snow drifting and forming a slurry with Lake Erie’s water crashing from overhead (with a few fish I think) and the wind howling so hard from the north that the ice cold air was somehow penetrating the passenger side door seams. Visibility was maybe 20 feet. The only thing I could make out was the flashing amber light of a plow truck far ahead in the distance but the blowing snow was so strong, I could barely discern the plow’s path on the roadway. I saw no other moving vehicles for a few miles. There were a few long abandoned 2WD SUV’s and pickups along the route. The 604 never veered from its trajectory despite the high broadside wind load, the crashing wave spray overhead, and the snow covered road. A real white knuckle ride home. And a long one at 20 mph. I presume a full tank of diesel over the rear wheels didn’t hurt.
I gave the car a nice pat on the dash for a job well done that evening!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/weather/8205402/Ohio-lighthouse-turned-into-ice-by-cold-weather.html
Thanks for the article Richard. I have little experience of the 604 having just really bought one (by the way, identical to the test car except leathers that are velours in mine) but I have to agree with all you have written and admit to buying the car for exactly the aspects you listed.
I’ve had 9 years daily experience in 604s,… had BWW, Audi, Benz. The Germans have engine failures, electronics failures, suspension failures. My 604s are reliable, dependable, comfortable on B-roads, and much ,much less expensive to service than German.