(first posted 11/7/2012) Before BMW had the European sports sedan genre covered, there was the Rover 2000TC. Based on a lively, rear-wheel drive platform, it combined impeccable handling with a dash of classic British luxury. Taking a strategic cue from BMW’s 1600/2002 range, Rover used their 2000/2000TC line to inject a little life into a familiar and rather staid line up. Although the Rover 2000TC, unlike the BMW 2002, is relatively unknown to North American enthusiasts, it might well be even more worthy of our attention.
Before their P6-generation 2000, 2000TC, 2000SC, 3500 and 3500S, Rover’s place was similar to that of Buick in recent years. They sold to a well-defined niche of conservative, established, and fairly well-off buyers in the British social strata. They were hardly exciting, but were comfy and well-built motor cars; to emphasize the point, the P4 cars were even nicknamed “Auntie”.
In the 1960s emerged a new breed of buyer: The middle-rung executive, a younger and perhaps slightly less well-off buyer. Although most of them probably couldn’t afford the upkeep for a big Jaguar saloon, they nevertheless demanded cars with a degree of luxury and a dash of sport.
Faced with an aging buyer demographic, Rover went from old and stodgy to daring and adventurous: Engineers, not salesman or accountants, were now in charge. With the P6, Rover threw caution to the wind and developed one of the most advanced saloons of the time: It truly was a clean-sheet design, with monocoque double-skinned construction, an overhead cam engine, sophisticated suspension, four-wheel disc brakes and an array of safety features. Released in 1963, the new Rover 2000 created a stir, and captured the European Car of the Year award in 1964.
The new, 2.0-liter, 104 hp OHC engine, which had been designed specifically for the P6, featured a Heron head–a completely flat cylinder head with combustion chambers cast into the top of the piston. An uprated, 124 hp version with twin carbs powered the new-for-1966 2000TC model.
Confirming the 2000TC’s status as a proper sporty sedan was a standard tachometer. Because production issues limited the number of dual-carburetor intake manifolds Rover could produce, the 2000TC was sold exclusively outside the UK until October of 1966. The single-carburetor model was renamed 2000SC.
In one of its many nods to safety, the P6 was among the first cars with engine mounts designed to allow the engine to be pushed down and away from the passenger compartment in the event of a collision.
Much of the 2000’s advanced design appears so unconventional as to approach French levels of oddity. Consider the front suspension: It is somewhat like a MacPherson strut modified with a bell crank and remote springs, a design intended to maximize the width of the engine compartment. And why? Well, at the time Rover was heavily experimenting with gas-turbine motors, which aren’t exactly known for being skinny. The gas turbine was cost-unfeasible and never saw production, but the extra under-hood room would be well utilized later, for the 3.5-liter V8-powered Rover 3500 (to be covered in a future CC).
The rear suspension is a semi-independent design with a modified DeDion setup. As a DeDion rear suspension, the differential is fixed to the body (to reduce unsprung weight) and connected to the wheel hubs by flexible joints. As with other DeDion suspensions, the Rover 2000’s has a rear tube connecting the two wheels; atypically, it employs joints that allow some variation in track width while retaining a fixed wheel camber. The result is a rear suspension that doesn’t suffer from the camber changes that plague some fully-independent designs, and is also much more compliant than a live axle.
A tail light on the front? It may look that way, but the idea is to let the driver see the top of the signal light from behind the wheel.
Check out these rear bucket seats! You may have to use your imagination due to their sorry state, but what a car this would have been back in the 1960s. Most other cars of the day would have a rear bench in order to advertise five-passenger seating. Even the rear seats offered three-point seat belts as standard. Just the car for an upwardly mobile mid-level executive in the swinging 60s.
Let’s move up front, where things look to be in much nicer shape. All the gauges and switches are easy to read and reach. Eschewing the traditionally British timber slab, this padded dash has only a hint of wood.
I came across these import papers while searching for the registration to positively ID the model year. According to this document, the owner left Calgary, Alberta for London, England in 1966, and brought this Rover back with him when he returned in 1969. Since it’s a 1969 model with left-hand drive and premium features like the IceLert sensor, it seems he took advantage of the move back home to bring a new car with him. For the record, the Rover was valued at $3,600 when it entered Canada. Oddly enough, his personal immigration papers had also been left in the car; indeed, a unique place to store one’s documents but then again, the 2000TC is a unique car.
In the brake department we find more surprises. The front discs, which are rather large for the time, were later equipped with three-piston calipers for the V8 version. The rear discs are mounted inboard, and are operated on by the hand brake, thus avoiding the need for a secondary drum brakes. The brakes were controlled by not one but two master cylinders, which are mounted rather unconventionally in that wide engine compartment. There’s power assist, of course. While my friend and I were scouting auction cars as possible purchases, just the sight of those dual brake cylinders was enough for him to utter, “Yeah, this is a no” before he closed the hood. Contemporary road tests reported fantastic brake feel and performance, but I certainly wouldn’t want to overhaul the system on a knackered example. Somehow I doubt that many mechanics appreciated those inboard rear brakes at servicing time.
Press reaction and initial sales were very strong. Here was an almost no-compromise car built by engineers that enjoyed driving. The Rover undercut and outperformed the Jaguar Mk2, and was much more advanced than the concurrently released Triumph 2000, but it wasn’t without flaw. The double-skinned body structure–designed to allow easy replacement of a rusted or damaged outer skin–turned out to have some significant flaws.
The hidden inner structure rusted first, creating a reasonably solid-looking car that was a rust bucket underneath. The SOHC four-cylinder engine was reasonably powerful but noticably less refined than its competition, especially at higher revs. The biggest domestic competitor, the Triumph 2000, had a less powerful, but silky smooth, inline six. To compensate for the engine’s lack of smoothness, Rover fitted a numerically low differential; while this allowed a higher top speed (over 100 mph, even in the basic 2000) it somewhat hampered acceleration.
Due to the advanced rear suspension, trunk space was at a premium.
The full-size spare ate up even more trunk space, so Rover developed an optional deck-lid mounting kit. Now that was a throwback to a previous era.
In the UK, the P6 was very successful, and was sold until it was replaced in 1977 by the much more conventional and aerodynamic SD1. All in all, it was an impressive 14-year run with only minor changes, notably a 1973 bump in engine size to 2.2 liters. In North America, however, the outcome was much less satisfying. Again, initial reviews of the P6 were very enthusiastic, but the cars proved to be more trouble- prone in the hands of American drivers, who demanded reliability, drove many more miles per year, and generally disdained high maintenance. Matters weren’t helped any by Rover’s extremely poor dealer support. Rover finally pulled the plug after selling just 1,500 units in 1971. Rover’s image was substantially dinged by the 2000TC, and the nameplate would never recover despite repeated efforts.
Related: CC 1970 Rover 3500S V8 (P5)
Another fascinating car in the storage lot. This is another that I have never seen, but I can understand the appeal. It is a shame that they could not have found a way to fit a V8 into that wide engine bay.
I find this car intriguing on several levels. And I absolutely love the little raised tips on the front indicator lenses. It is nice to get into something completely unfamiliar from time to time.
I have a 2.2 litre single carburettor version of this car. Mine has proved pretty reliable. I bought it in 1998 and the very same year I drove it from the English midlands to the south of France. The following year I drove it to the south of Spain. It was my daily driver for the next couple of years after which I stripped every panel back to the bare metal then repainted it in Corsica Blue. Over the last ten years, I have entered a rally for classic cars four times in the Champagne area of France, driving it from England to France and back on each occasion.
In 2015 I retired both it and myself to rural France and now I just participate in local events. I can’t say that I’ve never had to put spanners on the car but it has proved to be generally reliable.
The 3 1/2 litre V-8 was fitted to the Rover P6 ( and the earlier big model P5 ) ; in Great Britain this car was called the 3500S . This ex-Buick design went into many British vehicles right into the 21st Century.
There was a Buick sourced, 3.5 litre V8 fitted. These became the “Three Thousand Five” the 3500 & the 3500 S in Manual guise.
they are truely nice cars to drive. I love my 2000TC
JP, The 3500 and the 3500S that David mentions both had the 215 Buick V8, but I don’t think these ever made it to the States. These things received high praise from the automotive press (Road Test Magazine named it Car of the Year at some point during its life here). But they were unmitigated disasters, and not just for lazy US buyers. An Englishman who worked with my father bought one new but was on the verge of declaring bankruptcy since the car was bleeding him dry. And the car was nearly new. It didn’t take long for the 2000TC’s lousy rep to get around and sales evaporated.
The V8 models absolutely sold here. They recieved North America only equipment like a wacky three air scope hood. I’ve got one lined up for a future CC at some point.
Yeah, the hood on the V8 models is absolutely bizarre.
The hood on the V8 model is very tacky. The European versions didn’t have it.
I had one of the 1967 models which I bought in England for $3500 and drove it for three years in the USA. Loved the machine. It save our lives in 1970 when my wife fell asleep at the wheel at 70 mph on the Interstate, drifted off the highway, hit a cliff, and plowed in upside down. The car did what it was supposed to do—folded around us. The four of us–two adults and two children–received a total of one scratch each. The Missouri State Trooper who pulled us out of the car asked me what kind of car it was. He said he had never seen anyone emerge alive from such a badly smashed vehicle.
I remember seeing one Rover 3500–when I was a kid and played youth soccer (er, football), one of the local “soccer moms” drove one (this was before ubiquitous SUVs). And this was in suburban Tennessee, where there were some nice-for-the-time cars (a lot of upper-end GM B-wagons, MB W123s, the occasional Jaguar XJ), but this may have been the only Rover 3500 registered in our metro area. I’m looking forward to that CC.
Oddly enough, one of the other soccer moms drove a nice private Checker Marathon–if I had known back then that Curbside Classic would be around (or envisioned the idea of a “website”, for that matter), I’d have taken some photos!
Nobody’s mentioned it yet, so I will. That Buick-derived 3500cc was the same mini-V8 that Triumph shoehorned into their short-lived, unfondly-remembered TR-8.
Also: attached is a photo (purloined from a rival website!) of those “wacky” triple-hood scoops with which the eight-cylinder Rovers were festooned for North American consumption.
Uh?! Sadly, it wasn’t. At least not by the factory.
Uh… Which of my two non-controversial, abundantly-documented claims are you disputing? That the 3500 went into the TR8?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_TR8
Or that the US Rover V8 had three hood scoops?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_P6
I think Jim is thinking of the Stag with the 3.0-litre V8
I’ve seen a couple with the 3 scoop hood, I thought it must have been an aftermarket thing
The Buick/Rover 215 cu. in. V8 was also put into plenty of original Range Rovers from the factory too, right?
Yes the Buick 215/Rover 3500 was put in Range Rovers too.
Astonishingly, this same V8 was also available in… the MGB.
Even more astonishingly, it weighed roughly the same and got the same fuel economy as the 4-cylinder MGB. It was widely regarded as an absolutely great car, but it’s quite rare and British Leyland killed it quickly — some say due to a shortage of those engines, some say it was so as not to cannibalize sales of its favored Triumph brand, or simply because it was one darned expensive MGB… I say it was BL’s management MO to choose wrong at absolutely every single juncture, regardless of the reason. Anyway, a small number of factory MGB V8 cars do exist.
There is also the MG RV8 that had the 3.9 version.
Those 3.5 engines were available new without a car they were popular for full contact stockcar racing as the light engine allowed for more reinforcing within the max weight rules, yes the engines blew but they were easy to get new and cheap, it sure wasnt a shortage of engines that killed the MGB V8.
I recall seeing several of these in Ontario in the 70’s.
Did these cars ever get sold?
My brother-in-law owned one of these when he started to date my sister. He said it was the most comfortable car to wait for a town truck.
Also, Jean Shepherd did ads for them on his WOR radio show in the mid-60s. He was very enthusiastic about them, pointing out their advanced features in comparasion w/the Detroit iron of the era.
A car I almost bought, used, back in my college days. And I was young and stupid enough to do so, even having heard bits and pieces of its reputation. And I still love them, and would love to own a decently fettled example now. It will always go down as the car that guaranteed that the British would never sell a “Rover” in American unless the name was preceded by “Land”.
It’s reputation was such, that it gave us the Sterling. Which guaranteed yet another name that would never again be used on a car in America.
There were lots of these sold in Vancouver and Victoria up here in BC. Several of my father’s friends owned them, and I once had the pleasure as an 18 year old to drive one on a twisty highway for a 5 hour trip. It still stands as one of my favourite drives. The driving position was ergonomic, the short shift lever was perfectly placed along with the big steering wheel. For a kid accustomed to driving VW Beetles and early 60’s American cars, the 2000TC was a huge leap forward. It started my love of sport sedans.
Another key moment of automotive history. This was such an ambitious effort, and folks raved about it, until they didn’t.
My brother, who became an engineer, convinced me this was the Holy Grail of autodom when it came out (we were kids then). I struggled to understand all of its technical complexity. No wonder.
3500 was the best car my father ever owned. It wasn’t mechanically perfect (it was a British Leyland car of the 1970s), and the failure to glue the vinyl roof to the top of car meant the thing inflated like a balloon when the car was driven at speed – but it was a fine continental tourer, the equivalent of a modern high-spec BMW, I remember eating up the autoroutes in it in the summer of 75. I’d have one for myself in a heartbeat.
And exactly how does brake pedal action get all the way over to the goofy master cylinders on the other side of the car??
I have no idea. I couldn’t even figure out where the remote reservoirs are.
They are remote boosters, so the car sort of has 3 master cylinders. One attached to the pedal feeds the masters mounted to the boosters than then actuate the calipers. The remote mount booster was also often used as a way to add power brakes to a car that didn’t come with them. They are a pain.
The US market had two servos compared to the UK having just the one. It was because recent US legislation had imposed dual circuit brake systems as standard. they can be a pain if not rebuilt correctly which causes a slow release of the brakes after application. Normally you just open up the cap on top of the white ‘flying saucer valves’ and stretch the spring slightly to fix it. Also being the highest point on the brake system its a pain to bleed them fully until you learn the 3 small strokes of the pedal to one long one prescribed in the factory manual.
These cars weren’t huge sellers in California, but certainly weren’t rare either. They were as common as Fiat sedans or Datsun 411’s perhaps, at least until Mercedes and BMW sales took off with the introduction of the W114 and 1602/2002, as well as the increasing popularity of the Volvo 140. Those cars plus even the Peugeot 504 and Audi 100 provided more reliable Euro alternatives to the Rover, and the XJ6 also came out around that time, offering more performance and luxury for the Anglophiles, albeit at a higher price. IIRC the 3500’s in the US all had black vinyl tops, in addition to the wacky hood scoop – can anyone confirm?
I’ve seen two V8 ones and neither has had the vinyl roof. Of course that doesn’t mean it wasn’t removed at some point. Generally these cars were sold fully loaded for North America.
That red car is proper North America specification with all-amber front lights and all red at the rear. Icelert was standard. The returning owner probably bought it from Rover’s ‘personal export’ department, usually in London, in the spec for his home country and may have used it to tour England or Europe before returning the car to Rover to ship to Canada. Same deal if you were emigrating somewhere from England. A uni tutor I knew brought his TC to New Zealand from Canada and it sure stood out from all the RHD ones we’d imported (V8s were assembled locally later). MG promoted overseas delivery for the little 1100 sport sedan with a film shown in US and Canadian dealers, order your car, fly to UK, tour and then have it shipped home. Today in UK some automakers offer a collect in Europe and drive home deal, no extra charge. A friend picked up a new Mercedes that way, the flight is free as the company is saving on the train ride to ship the car to England.
not rare in the northeast either. i remember thinking they were very cool when i was growing up in new jersey. they probably outnumbered bmw’s at the time. i think there was some british cop show on tv that featured them, too.
A friend of my parents owned one of these in the Canary Islands, which he had bought brand-new over there. It was white with a black vinyl top, and he held on to it until at least 1980. These cars actually looked pretty good with a vinyl top.
The 3500s I recall all had the vinyl roof. I think the 2000s came without it. Though that could simply be the more common configuration, I’m not sure whether it was standard or optional…
Another great British car killed by reliability issues. I’d say it’s almost a cliche, except for the “almost.”
The V8s certaily did not all come with a vinyl roof in fact a full glass roof could be optioned, Ivwe seen a writeup on a surviving example it had the three bonnet scoops it was a LHD car.
dman wrote: “IIRC the 3500′s in the US all had black vinyl tops, in addition to the wacky hood scoop – can anyone confirm?”
Not sure I understand the question, but here’s my answer:
I had a Rover 3500S (built for the American market); blue, with hood scoops and no vinyl on top. I think it was a 1968 model, but can’t remember for sure. There are many photos (including 3500S literature/catalogs) showing this configuration. In my opinion, it was the best car I ever drove in my life.
I have still got my Rover v8s after 21 years, it still a lovely car, yes it has a black vinyl roof and i show it at classic car show in the UK.Yes beter than a BMW
My father had one from new in the early 60s and despite having driven a vast range of cars always said it was the best drive of all of them.He maintained this claim up until he died five years ago. Rover discovered this niche/genre while BMW were still making bubble cars.
I know what you mean but that’s still a bit harsh. BMW introduced the 1500 in 1963, the 1800 shortly later, and until the Rover TC came out the 2000 wasn’t particularly sporting, and there were globally available equivalents from Volvo, Peugeot, Mercedes, Alfa etc.
Yeah the myth that BMW invented fast touring sedans is just that MYTH these cars along with the 2000series Triumphs had that market long before BMW decided to copy their way in. Many of these Rover still on the roads here but mostly the V8 versions the 4s are quite rare but not sought after.
Richard and Bryce, the “Neue Klasse” BMW sedans appeared in 1962. The Rover 2000 came in 1963. I’m not saying Rover copied BMW, but it certainly (and obviously) wasn’t the other way around.
FWIW, Alfa Romeo pretty much popularized this genre back in the late fifties. As did the Borgward Isabella.
Although the big advantage the P6 had, at least in the U.K., was that it was considerably cheaper than an Alfa. The Rover wasn’t inexpensive — a ’60s 2000 was around £1,500 — but even a 1,300cc Alfa Romeo Giulia GT would run £250 or so more than that and the bigger-engine examples would top £2,000 with tax and import duty.
Rover weren’t traditionally sporting saloons, that was the domain of Riley, Sunbeam or Wolesley.
We had a customer at the shop I worked at when I was in college. I had to work on it a couple of times. I don’t remember whether it was to inspect or replace the brakes but I was amazed at the goofy suspension. Unfortunately I only got to drive it around the block.
A few years ago when I went to the local historic races there was one competing. I found it in the pits when he was replacing the front brakes. He was eating them up as well as his front tires. He found it in some guys yard where it had sat for years and got it back on the road. He was having a lot of fun with it but it wasn’t particularly fast or competitive.
I think Rover was actually cribbing ideas from Citroen. The base unit body structure is straight off the DS and the complex braking system has a whiff of DS as well. The single carb engine did make it back into the US on the slushbox models. I used to see one in NW Portland in the 90s.
Rover were certainly very, very aware of the DS19 — some of the early design studies for the P6 have a very Déesse-like sloping nose — but I wouldn’t go so far as to call the P6 an imitator. A response, certainly, a copy, not at all. Rover settled on some similar ideas, like the unit body with unstressed panels, but there are some substantial differences, as well; there’s not much in common in terms of suspension and about the only thing in common between the Rover and DS19 engines is that both have four cylinders and are between 1,900 and 2,000 cc.
Just a few comments. I’ve been a Rover guy for nearly 40 years, and currently own three TCs (a 67, 68 & 69)
The single carb version, as well as an automatic version, continued to be sold in North America (called NADA in Rover-speak) alongside the TCs. The TC was introduced in March 1966.
The TC was first sold overseas because GB was still recovering from the war and exports were key to the recovery as well as because of part supply issues.
Seat belts were not standard equipment, though all NADA cars were equipped. What was unusual was the mountings for three points belts for every seat were integral to the car, something of a first.
On to the brakes: First of all, the 2000’s were among the first cars to have 4 wheel discs. Originally Dunlop, they changed to Girling equipment in 1965-66 The front calipers were not three piston, those came on the V8 models. Originally, the cars were single circuit with a separate vacuum booster, located where you see the two boosters in this car. NADA cars got dual circuit brakes in 1968, hence two boosters. There is a conventional master cylinder attached to the pedal. Actually, this part of the braking system is easy to service. The rear calipers are Girling swinging calipers, mechanically very complex and inaccessible due to the inboard location. Probably the most hated part of the car for a mechanic.
The car’s base unit didn’t rust out faster than the body panels, rather the entire car rusted away like most 1950 designs. The tricky bit was the body panels could be easily replaced, but base unit repair was expensive and usually left undone.
Rover’s reputation in North America wasn’t undone by the P6 (the general model name for all 2000 & 2200 models). It was the general mismanagement & poor build quality of the British Leyland group that ruined the market for not only Rover but Jag & Triumph as well. The build quality of the P6 noticeably declined after Rover was acquired around 1967. What killed the Rover name in North America was the SD1. Wonderful performer, but in the running for the worst built car ever, using substandard materials.
It is telling that, as British Leyland sank in the 90’s, they called themselves Rover group as the Rover marque was the least blemished of all the brands BL owned.
Yours
Vern
Thanks. It’s always helpful to have a former owner’s perspective.
Thank you for additions and corrections. Reliable information on the North American market cars can be a little hard to come by, especially the four cylinders ones.
Rovers were always soundly engineered and very well finished – a British Mercedes – until lost in the nightmare that was British Leyland. The engineering prowess remained, but the build quality was awful. After two SD1s – the second was a bad mistake – we turned to Mercedes and BMW.
Great introductory article. Rover built a little over 2,000 3500S models with the ‘hood scoops’ for the North American market. “NADA” was the “North American Dollar Area” designation. Here is a link to my ‘mistress’ which I have been restoring for the past 20+ years.
http://www.britishv8.org/other/lancelacerte.htm
Fantastic vehicle, Lance. Anyone whose familiarity with this era of Rover is limited to the red flatliner featured in this Storage Field Classic should click on Lance’s link and see what one of these cars should really look like. Congratulations on having the patience and the perseverence (and I guess also the $$$) to master this “mistress”. And not in Britain, but in Colorado!
Somewhere among my childhood possessions is a somewhat damaged Corgi Toy, circa 1968, of a TC in BRG, with a piece of clear amber plastic to represent the large sunroof, and a black plastic trunk-mounted spare. I’ll have to see if I can dig it up. Here’s one in better shape than mine:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CORGI-ROVER-2000-TC-CAR-RARE-FIND-EXCELLENT-CONDITION-/230889222410?pt=UK_ToysGames_DiecastVehicles_DiecastVehicles_JN&hash=item35c211f10a
Also, just for laughs, about halfway down this Rover fansite page is a photo of an owner who had his TC tattooed on his back:
http://www.classicroverforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14415
From the Comments:
Well thats one P6 that wont rust 🙂
Superb car! Congratulations. Enjoyed all the detailed pictures.
Wonderfully detailed photos Lance! – and as a New Zealander I’m loving the Otago Rover club badge! The P6 is a great-looking design, very British with its coolly-elegant lines. I’m not such a big fan of the NADA tri-scoop bonnet, but I do love how the NADA model scored electric windows. Was a/c an option per chance? That would make it just about the perfect touring sedan!
Don’t know about factory-fit but I have seen these Rovers in US with aftermarket air, all the same unit which suggests local importer had a kit made up for dealer or port-of-entry prep center fit. Same applied to MGBs. Tight fit, but they got it in. Tightest I ever saw was Rover Japan’s kit for the pre-BMW Mini.
I’ve bitched about my 2000SC so much here and on TTAC that I won’t add much here, except that the clue confirmed my inability to recognize small details even on cars that I’ve owned. Well, it was in the late sixties….
The car did have its superlatives: best handling, most fun to drive – especially on twisty back roads, best-looking (and smelling) interior with red leather seats, biggest pain in the ass to keep running.
My home town boasts an extensively stocked Rover/Jaguar wreckiing yard, its a worlds only source of some parts for Rovers and locally Rovers were thick on the ground in the 60s and 70s, the older Auntie models were quite bullet proof for daily driving the P6s needed more maintenance, Rust killed them in enough numbers mechanical spares were readily available
http://www.ruediger-wicke.de/TestGB/TrackTraffic_2000TC_1966.htm
This article, found in the June 1966 issue of CanadIan Track & Traffic is illustrative of the great divide between desired and actual outcomes. In many respects the Rover 2000TC was very much like the Citroen DS19-incredibly advanced in concept and execution and wonderful to drive, but impossible to put up with. Sort of like a beautiful woman that you fall in love with but later find out suffers from Tourette Syndrome and uncontrolled flatulence.
What you describe could have been the Mopar experience, as well. Only sometimes she wasn’t so good looking, either. 🙂
I was trying to think of where I’d seen the rear bucket seat concept–reminds me of the current Hyundai Equus (minus the footrests, etc.):
The Lutz GTO/Holden Monaro had rear buckets too, as well as many of the early W body Coupes
You could get the early Buick Regal GS sedans with a “4 seat package” also, basically the same setup offered in the Grand Prix coupes at the time. I’ve only seen a few.
THIS WAS MUSTAFAS CAR IN THE AUSTIN POWERS MOVIE THE SPY WHO SHAGED ME
Cool! In 1966, my family and I took the same ship to Montreal, the Alexandr Pushkin, that this man did, though we boarded in Leningrad and only stopped for the day in London. We were on the ship’s second trip. Missed the maiden voyage.
Also, maybe ten years later, I had a roommate who owned one of these. His was the ‘proper’ British Racing Green, though. I like the term “hampered acceleration” 🙂 I drove it a couple of times, and it didn’t so much accelerate, it slowly gathered momentum, but once rolling, it was a sweet drive and simply flew down the highway, quietly and comfortably.
Thanks for the article!
Didn’t Grace Kelly meet her maker in one of these?
I think you’re right but I think it was in the later SD1 version of the 3500, which is the one I saw as a kid (after some googling, I figured this out).
It was a 1971 Rover 3500. That would make it a P6, not an SD1.
( http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-10-23/features/8901240679_1_chauffeur-prince-rainier-monaco )
It’s also since been learned that the suffered either a stroke or a massive brain hemorrhage while driving, leading to the wreck. Not clear whether that would have been survivable or not on its own, but she died the following day in the hospital, not at the scene.
It was a survivable wreck – her daughter walked away, possibly with a broken arm. Not many 60s cars would have saved you after going off a cliff!
I like to see old posts from the past, with newer feedback.
I’ve seen one non-Sterling Rover running, or loafing up one our notorious Rockies passes. That thing had presence and style. He kept up fine. And a 308GTB drivin by Tom Selleck I would have glanced at at most. That Rover was exotic as heck, the V8 Rover with owners,that Paul showed us sparked a Rover interest in me.
Carmine, you wise man, correct again. I told people it was an Astin-Marten, for decades. Never be ashamed to correct me. Many of you have taught me muchos. MCT even set me straight last night. Boss comming, bye. I’ll admit my follies, with almost all of you. Paul still scares me, I’d never wanna him to know the real fool I am. He’ll schuedual a root canal the day I come to Eugene. Good day to all.
Definitely a P6. There’s a photo on the net of it being salvaged.
Few cars made a better first impression than the Rover TC. A rakish British sport sedan priced well below a Jag. The specs and performance were impressive. The size was just right.
I can say for sure NO car made a worse ownership experience than the TC. Our extended family has owned a variety of cars including the TC and it was BY FAR the worst. Odd noises we could never fix. It never started. Leaked oil EVERYWHERE.
My poor aunt traded in a ’66 Mustang V8 with Rally wheels for that Rover. After that she went flying into the arms of a ’74 Super Beetle. Now that was a great car.
when i was in regina sasketchewan during 72, met a dude who owned one of these 2000, he said the car due to having a pretty aerodynamic body was able to slide thru a snow storm like nothing, it shaped has some resemblance to a Citroen DS.
whilst his friend drove some american land barge couldn’t drive as fast in the snow storm.
the de dion suspension cold spell a night mare to the blokes who has to work on the brakes, so as the jag e type then also has inboard brakes.
Rover was always considered the poor man’s Rolls.
my bro did owned a rover 90 and a 3 litre, same car on top of the pics here.
rover 90 a fnd owned this in quesnel BC, last i heard some staff did left a trouble on in his shop and burned down quite a bit of his car collection.
Ah, Rover, you were a wonderful dog, but you just humped our collective leg once too often….
I have a 1973 P6 2000TC, right hand drive, with 16,400 orriginal miles on the car. was Imported from the Uk in 1996 into Vancouver BC, I have owned the car for 3 years, and Only trouble I have with the car, is a tendency to stall at stop lights, It ran fine in the higher altitudes of our Interior of the Province ,on a summer drive. I replaced the distributor with a new electronic ignition. and every thing else is great, i have to lean out the Carbs I have been told/ I would say the greatest Pain is the Run on .Or dieseling. .
all the best. Rick .M
I never cared for these when they appeared. The styling didn’t work for me, and I never saw the point of the heron-head engine. At facelift time they replaced that terrible strip speedo with an array of proper round dials which made the car car more attractive.I only ever sat in the facelift model, but I had a chance to drive an early one once and it did ride nicely.
Nice article, a car that I have always found interesting (well the 3500 at least), but I’m in no hurry to own one.
There is a car locally that wears 4400 badges because it has a tall-deck Leyland P76 engine in it. Also at one of the shows the Rover club had a 2000 driving around with all external panels and doors removed. I’m not sure if I have a digital photo of that, it was a while ago.
The other anecdote I remember was an owner who arranged to have a trimmer re-do the vinyl roof, only to cause a bit of confusion when he turned up in his modern car – the roof panel was in the trunk, the rest of the car was back at home.
I remember an article in “Boys Life” magazine that the Boy Scouts (probably Explorers) were building some sort of “safety car”. They started with a Rover 2000 body, I believe they grafted on Corvette suspension (in the rear, for sure) and dropped in a Plymouth/Dodge 383 V8.
I don’t have any idea how they hooked it up to work or if it was ever more than a thought experiment.
These P6 Rovers were exceptionally popular here in New Zealand, and there are still quite a few around. The 3500 is the most popular (and has by far the best-sounding engine!). I went to an open-home fundraiser last year, one of the houses was owned by a Rover Car Club member, and the club headquarters were in a large building on the grounds. There were about 20-25 immaculate Rovers there, including a fair assortment of P6s.
I’ve always loved post-war Rovers, their styling was always different yet elegant. The P6 was very advanced compared with the Auntie Rovers, but even so it looked like a logical progression of the Auntie styling. Funny how the SD1 sort of reversed that, with completely new (and beautiful) styling but old-tech underpinnings. Farewell Rover, it was great while it lasted.
I was at a Targa NZ stage waiting for the action when another spectator pulled up in a P6 3500 manual, very nice car and according to the driver all original not a converted automatic, very rare. The manual was the same as the 2000 model with an oil pump fitted to cope withe V8 torque and not particularly robust.
The gauge cluster to the right looks like the British police spec calibrated speedometer?.
We didnt get that lovely wooden spoke steering wheel in the UK just a cheep plastic two spoke one.
These were the British Citroen!.
Rev counter – added for the TC. Single carb model had the clock dead centre with no plastic surround. Facelift integrated the rev counter alongside round speedo in a new cluster.
I owned one of these in the UK in the late 80s, and have one here in Portland OR. Both are V-8s. The engine, being American, is bulletproof. The suspension is also, but difficult to work on: you cannot use ordinary spring compressors to remove the horizontal front coils, a set of 3 retaining rods that fit inside the spring is neeeded. Yes the hood scoops are unusual, and perhaps out of character, but they are funcitonal. The original V-8s with an American mechanical fuel pump were prone to vapor lock. So, Rover added the 2 side scoops and also an electrical fuel pump. No more vapor lock. The center scoop feeds cool air under hard acceleration – a vacuum valve opens the flap valve; the engine needs warm air to meed the EPA smog requirements. This car is the best combination of ride and handling in any contemporary sporting saloon owing to the rear De Dion tube, and 50/50 weight balance. The battery is in the trunk to help the weight. Rover never manufactured a turbine P6, but did race sports cars with the turbine. I saw one at Brands Hatch in 66-67. Much of the design, including the dual braking system with master on left, and slave cylinger on right, aand the warm/cool air intakes, were to comply with the first EPA regs that became law in 1968.
Rover and RR maybe the only cars that u can check oil level from pushing a button on the dash.
I had a beautiful blue 3500S from 1987 until 1996. It had about 50K miles on it when I got it and less than 55K on it when I sold it. It was a beautiful car with an equally beautiful interior. Mechanical and electrical reliability, eh no.
The voltage regulator was accessible through the glovebox, good thing because when the ammeter went to discharge a good whack with the hand would put it right again. I had trouble with the brake system, expensive and complex, and further trouble with the float bowls on the SU carbs.
This was not a car to take on a long trip, but a blast to drive around town once in a while. I’d love to have it back with a big budget to put everything right, it was a once in a lifetime car for me.
An inline fuel filter just before the float bowls stops any float bowl problem on an SU carb, it is usually a bit of contamination that stops the pin from seating fully.
I did that as a matter or course for any SU carb vehicle I owned and never had a problem with flooding.
That and centralising the needle in the main jet properly are the only things you need to do with an SU
I had a ’69 2000TC that I semi-restored in the late 90’s. Handled well, rode well. Got lots of positive comments. Ate alternators until I converted it to a later Bosch unit.
Had all the options- Delco air conditioner, the Icelert temp sensor and the trunk mount spare.
Probably my favorite vintage car.
I’ve had my ’69 TC for going on 3 years now. I had to replace the clutch slave cylinder right off the bat. Just looked up the OEM part number, presto! same as Austin Mini, had it 2 days later via mail-order from British Parts Northwest. Driven it 3 summers now, haven’t had to do anything else. I’ve taken it on a few multi-hundred mile trips with complete reliability. It waits patiently from late Fall ’til Spring, and willingly fires as soon as the fuel pump fills the SUs. I will be turning it into a modern BMW-eater sleeper with a new powertrain starting this winter, as well as upgrading the interior and front sheetmetal with 3500 bits. It’s been postulated that the ones that survive (at least in NA) were the best screwed-together-from-the-factory examples, I think there’s a lot of truth to that.
Later P6 3500s were assembled in New Zealand (NZMC Nelson along with Triumphs and Jaguars) with around 2,200 exported under the original NAFTA agreement to Australia in return for cars, car kits and parts. That would be why they are still quite common – until about 1971 they were full import only and subject to import licence controls and extra duty – the CKD kit cars were more freely available. Aussie writers in the likes of Wheels magazine rubbished the quality for years after shipments ended but NZ owners I knew who had had earlier UK I4 P6s and then bought the Kiwi built V8s were usually happy. Dealers were good which helped.
At least one NADA spec one made it in with a Canadian lecturer who taught at the Auckland Technical Institiute mid-1970s. His was a blue TC IIRC and had the ice sensor, red rear flashers, smaller rear rego plate surround and all the other changes made for North America. I wonder if it survives?
I would guess the extra slots in the NADA V8 bonnet/hood were added to aid cooling in hot regions of the US.
There were thousands of changes made to the later SD1 to make it suit NA – there was a story in Autocar at the time.
Hi Corby. I owned that car and was the fourth owner -and the last. I bought the car in1985 and used it for many years driving all over NZ, but mainly in Auckland, getting used to the LHD easily. I swapped in another (2200TC) motor and gearbox when it blew another headgasket.The 10:1 CR motor fitted to all NADA TCs needed 100 octane and rather than retard the timing, I used octane additive after the first one blew. A friend who borrowed the car didn’t, and blew it again. I should have made myself clearer to him. In 2005 I nearly had the car mobile after 3 years in my garage when I had to move house. I moved the car out onto the road so that it could be picked up and delivered to my new address the next day as the gearlever wasn’t connected. Overnight the car was, (I presume) whisked away by one of the shady ‘give you cash for your old car’ scrap metal people who cruise around looking for ‘old wrecks’. I had taken the number plates off and the registration was on hold and the car was very dusty from it’s time in the garage. The car was sitting on it’s Rostyles with new Bridgestone 185/70 tyres, by then merely, newish Koni shocks and a ‘Kmac’ rear anti rollbar which had quelled the understeer nicely .
I’ll always regret not cleaning it. Maybe if it hadn’t looked uncared for, they would have left it. I still have the original motor and the spare Rostyle wheel with original Pirelli tyre and the ‘2000TC’ personalised number plates.
And I still haven’t seen another one with rear headrests. I do aim to have another P6, when I do, it will be my 16th.
Brilliant news, Concinnity, and great, and sad, to hear the update. Great backstory and glad you had so many years with that car; I can’t recall the ATI tutor’s name but he regularly used to drive it past my bus home in the student days.
I now live in England and we, too, have the roving ‘metal men’, mostly now from Eastern Europe, and the inevitable proportion who will take anything metal not nailed down, with permission or not… Trouble is, recycled scrap metal is so valuable and the business of getting a share of the action is very competitive, we have at least three regular rovers in my street a week. Upside is we no longer have to pay the council to take away old fridges, washers, etc…
Groby, sorry I got your name’s spelling wrong.
It happened one more time, two years later, this time with a Renault 25V6 sans transmission and parked on a back section. My solution was to move out of Auckland and pay close attention to security. I now run some W124s as daily cars and Citroens BX and CX and a Lancia Gamma but, perhaps because a P6 was my first car it remains a favorite. I have a tall deck P76 block overbored and a Buick V8 crankshaft and am building up a 5+ litre engine for installation in a P6 but with my current workload, this looks like being a few years away. One thing is certain,too. The next time I visit the US I plan on bringing back a NADA 3500S and 2000TC.
And Princess Grace? http://www.franksreelreviews.com/gracekelly/death-of-a-princess-the-story-of-grace-kelly-s-fatal-car-crash
I rebuilt and drove drove one. Great to drive but mechanically a piece of junk !
Two confessions:
1. I’m not overly fond of British cars in general.
2. The Rover and the E-Type Jaguar are the only two exceptions I can think of, short of a new Aston Martin.
A buddy’s dad in HS had a 3500, and I loved that car… when it ran. Which loops me back to statement #1.
My Dad bought one of these in ’66. My parents roared around Europe in it for a month and brought it back to Seattle.
Dad unloaded it shortly thereafter, and I regret to say I never asked him why.
Wow, I didn’t know these were so technologically peculiar. I’ve been seeing one for sale in the New Orleans area for at least two–probably four–years now. More than two years ago it was parked in front of a gas station/thrift shop in the Lower Ninth Ward…and looked rather out of place. I stopped to check it out and thought how alien it seemed.
This article made me curious and sure enough, it’s still on Craigslist! Too weird to live, too rare to die.
https://neworleans.craigslist.org/cto/d/1969-rover-tc-2000-sell-trade/6609869799.html
I do recall seeing a few of these in the New Orleans, LA area, in the early 1970’s.
Usually FORD (Found On Road Dead) on the shoulder or in the chain link fenced in area of a small foreign car repair shop.
I cannot ever recall seeing one driving on the road, under it’s own power.
The P6 series Rover proved very popular in the UK, and is fondly remembered as a fine motor car, having owned Rover and Jags I rate them their equal and some models I prefer to Jags until the XJ6 came out
Its worst feature was a propensity for rusting exacerbated by the fact that no one seemed to wash the accumulated mud in the wheel arches or underneath in those days, why I don’t know; but as I have said before it is the same for all cars of the 60s used in damp and cold climates where salt has to be used on the roads and not a specifically British problem
Not sure I agree with the perception that Rover was overly conservation, the P4 was quite radical when it first came out, and they were testing gas turbine cars having made 2 models, what about the V8 mid engine Rover /Alvis P6BS sports,? The P6 was followed by the SD1 which looked quite futuristic when it first came out.
When ever I see a P6 in a car show , I still think it is a nice design
You might guess that I am an enthusiast of the marque, and still have a 2002 75
I recall most if not all of the outer panels were alloy. The later V8s were a treat in red with a black vinyl top.
KJ in Oz
A neighbour had a dark blue 2000 TC and Dad had a 1958 FC Holden wagon. One Saturday morning I was a back seat passenger first in the FC and then the Rover. Hard flat vinyl v soft leather and close to individual chairs? And the soft ride and the smoothness and the floor shift! Turned me into a car but at age ten it did!
bonjour a tous ;j’ai une 2000 TC 1968 et je cherche des pièces ;pouvez vous me donner des adresses ? merci
http://shop.roverp6cars.com/
https://www.winsinternational.co.uk/
https://www.jrwadhams.co.uk/
My father drove a ’67 TC2000 for many years until Chicago salt claimed it – it was his favorite car and despite later owning several 300-series BMW’s he remained nostalgic for it the remainder of his life. It did require maintenance but an excellent shop was available.
Several coworkers (in US) had the 3500 model w/ Buick aluminum V8. One, a former RAF pilot, when asked about it got a dreamy look before saying it was the closest he’d come to flying his Spitfire. A few years ago I saw a flawless TC2000 in deep red parked at the Daly City BART station, outside of San Francisco.
Original art by Marshall Peck
Love painting to our 1968 Rover 2000 tc