When I had to take our TSX wagon to the dealer for a passenger side airbag igniter recall last week, I was given this 2017 TLX as a loaner. Not surprising, since dealers often keep cars they can’t get rid of as loaners. And the TLX certainly hasn’t been a hot seller, although it is their best selling sedan. Since the TLX is a direct evolution of the TSX, I figured it was a chance to see how much had changed. Not much, and partially not for the better.
As I opened the door and lowered myself in, it all felt and looked quite familiar, despite some superficial changes. But the whole architecture and (very comfortable) seats and general configuration was very familiar. That should make driving off quickly a breeze, as I was in a bit of a rush.
Not quite so fast. It has a smart fob, so the engine now starts with a button. No problem; I’m actually good with that. And I did notice that the interior is a wee bit nicer than ours, with some “wood” accents. But it’s looking a bit dated to me. But everything does to me since the Tesla Model 3 came out. Of course it has both a navigation screen as well as one on the center stack. Or something like that. Our TSX doesn’t, on both accounts, having skipped the $3500 Technology Package. And we’ve never missed it yet.
from Acura
Sorry, but I am not going to be able to say anything about them, because I didn’t touch them. I was in the middle of a project, and was eager to get home. In retrospect, I shouldn’t have been, and taken advantage of the opportunity. But then figuring out the ins and outs of it would have undoubtedly taken way too much time for this impatient person.
from Acura
Time to put it into gear. I instinctively reached for the shifter, and found it missing. Oh; that’s been changed to buttons too. And not for the better. I much prefer a lever shifter, since it doesn’t require looking down. It’s a pain to have to move the eyes so far away to find the right button, and really slow down backing out or making other maneuvers. Each of the main gear selectors is quite different too; one has to pull up on the Reverse thing, obviously to help avoid running over old ladies or kids behind the car.
Here’s a closer look, from an Acura image. It’s fiddly. One has to always look down to find it, and then the right button. With our TSX, I don’t ever have to look. I just grab the shifter, move it and go.
Of course the very large and bright rear view camera display should negate the problem of backing over people and such. That’s the one item I wish our TSX wagon had, for Stephanie’s sake. I’m so used to reversing with mirrors and a strategic glance or two backwards, they’re mostly wasted on me. I don’t use the one in the Promaster except for when I’m backing up to a loading dock or such. No complaints from me there.
This explosion of various kinds of new shifting schemes is not a good thing. I could see a proper rotary knob, because one could also find it and use it without hunting for it. But buttons on the console…pass. I was never a fan of Chrysler’s push buttons back in the day, but at least one didn’t have to drastically shift the eyes away from the field of view out the windshield.
It turns out that this new shifter is only used on the V6 versions of the TLX; the four still has the familiar lever one as in our TSX. Which brings me to the engine and transmission. I knew these come with both the 2.4 L four (like in our TSX wagon) and the 3.5 L V6; with 206 and 290 HP respectively. If I’d actually noticed the SH-AWD badge, I’d have known this was a V6. I didn’t notice it then.
I did notice that the engine sound on start-up was a bit more refined, so my guess was the V6. But when I pulled out of the dealer lot driveway, the response to my foot was decidedly sluggish. Not in necessarily a bad way, but quite different. The response in our TSX four is immediate. This V6 required substantially more poking. I don’t know if this is different from the previous TSX V6, or something new in the mapping of the throttle response. It turns out I must have had it in Eco mode. I never noticed it telling me that or where the control for it is.
When I got on the freeway, I wanted to make sure this was really a V6, and experience the difference that an extra 84 hp makes. I eventually found out, but I felt like I was running out of pedal before it kicked down several gears of its generally well-behaved 9-speed ZF transmission, which replaces the 5-speed Honda automatic on the TSX (the four cylinder now uses an 8-speed dual clutch box that also has a torque converter). When the message finally arrived in the engine compartment, the response was quite evident. There’s no doubt this is a faster car ultimately than our TSX four.
But given this TLX with the SH-AWD weighs some 200 lbs more than our TSX wagon, even though it’s a sedan, the actual difference probably isn’t that huge. The reality is that I’ve never felt under-powered in our TSX; it manages to roll along at 130 quite readily, and passing in the mountains is never a problem. I don’t mind showing a car the spurs, and the sound of the TSX’s big four at 7,000 rpm is rather delicious. A bit like the big Offy fours of yore.
But yes, the V6 is of course smoother and offers potentially faster passing yet. How many drivers will actually ever take advantage of the ultimate difference is another matter.
For what it’s worth, when I got back into our TSX, the response was so much more immediate, I had to force my foot to back off the first time or two. But then it doesn’t have an Eco mode.
As to the TLX’s handling, I obviously didn’t have much chance to probe its limits. It feels like it is undoubtedly capable, although the extra weight is mostly on its front end. The TSX wagon comes in at quite favorable 57:43 front-to-rear ratio versus the TSX V-6 sedan’s 62:38, which is the single biggest reason I wouldn’t have gotten the V6 even if it had been available in the wagon. The weight shift toward the rear helps the TSX wagon hold corners tighter than expected and makes the car much less prone to under-steer. It’s essentially almost impossible to tell that it’s a FWD car.
The TLX V6’s weight distribution is a bit over 60 on the front too. Not really noticeable on my drive, but the TLX did feel a wee bit heavier all-round, which of course it is. That’s not to impugn it; these cars are deceptively good handling, and can generally stand up to the best cars in its class in that regard.
But it also had that distinctive Honda thin-walled feeling too, meaning road noise is readily apparent; too much so.
The TLX comes with AcuraWatch, a suite of advanced driving aids. I didn’t have the opportunity to use the adaptive cruise control, which I now regret. I allowed myself too little time, and I was testing the V6’s higher-speed acceleration instead of cruising on my short freeway stretch.
The lane-departure warning did beep and visually alert me to when I started getting too close to the edge of the lane Could live with that.
But the frontal collision warning (I assume) also beeped at me and flashed a BRAKE warning on the instrument panel several times when I approached a stopped or slower car in traffic. I do tend to brake a bit late, but this was not welcome. I don’t think I could live with this nanny yelling at me to brake sooner. I would have to change my bad habits.
I didn’t try out the back seat (image from Acura), but undoubtedly it’s roomier than the TSX, thanks to its almost 3 inch wheelbase stretch. It now sits on the 109.3″ wheelbase of the previous generation US Accord, rather than the shorter non-US Accord wheelbase of the TSX. Good thing, as the TSX’s rear seat is quite compromised unless the front seats are well forward. This is progress.
Of course this TLX is essentially a previous generation Accord, dressed up a bit. If you’re not a fan of the current Accord’s styling, this is might just be your ticket. A rather big ticket though, as the MSRP on these runs a bit steep. I saw one in the showroom with a $46k sticker (it must have been loaded). A base 2.4 starts at $33k. I’m guessing that there’s a fair bit of light between MSRP and what one can negotiate for. These are obviously languishing a bit, given the general malaise in the sedan market.
No need to shed tears for poor Acura, though; they’re doing quite well, actually, despite the very common assumptions otherwise. How many articles or comments have I seen over the years on CC and other websites bemoaning Acura’s decline?
Well, it’s all about their CUVs, which has been an Acura strength for years. The new RDX is off to a hot start, and Acura sales were up 11% in November, over last year. And YTD sales are up some 2%, which is well above the market overall. Acura is outselling Lincoln, Infiniti and possibly Cadillac (GM doesn’t report monthly sales anymore). More importantly, Acura’s profits are most likely quite strong, as almost all of its models are heavily shared with Honda under the skin.
The TLX is still Acura’s third best selling car after the RDX and MDX, with some 28k sold YTD, down 13% from 2017. That’s actually down quite a bit less than most other sedans. Is the TLX doing better than I assumed? Eugene is not a good place to make assumptions based on what’s on the streets here, given that I saw no less than four Tesla Model 3s today on a short errand run. It’s the new Prius here.
The final verdict? It’s a nice car, if you fancy a sedan whose origins are in the early days of this century. If I really wanted a sedan like this, other than a Model 3 it would have to be something with a better value equation, like a Camry V6. But I don’t, as I have no use for a sedan in my life, so this is all a bit of an abstraction. Or distraction, in the case of having to take the TSX in, but then it’s the very first time in its almost-five years. And it is good to get a bit of exposure to something different. Now if only they’d given me an NSX.
This we do not have in the EU anymore, Honda gave up trying to sell midsize sedans here a few years ago which is a shame really but with the CUV/SUV revolution and Honda’s minuscule overall sales figures (well, here in Austria anyway) I can understand them.
You really like the Tesla 3 dashboard, huh? I don’t see it.
I mean, literally. The only ones I’ve seen must have been super-base ones with no more than a DiNoc ironing board and an iPad.
I’ll withold judgement on the dash till the update model when they fit one.
In truth, I rather like the minimalism – mentally, an early DS link to me – but still opine that basic HVAC (and perhaps radio) functions should be simple knobs. Then hide other detailed minutiae and sundry unecessarialia in the screen.
Surely do agree with you on the spilled collection of buttons on the Honda console being an unergonomic replacement for a gearstick. Advances the process of motoring not a whit.
Agree too that largish, slightly shouty Honda fours are very sweet devices, and that multi-ratioed rather torqueless V6’s from a number of makers are too easily caught off their power zone juggling in a pack of gears.
Progress. Often mistaken for “more”. Which often results in a confident move – sideways.
Yeah the dash of the 3 looks cheap and DIY grade to me along with being the opposite of ergonomic.
The Model 3 has pretty good voice actuation, and that will undoubtedly continue to improve, as all Tesla software receives regular updates. I believe that voice actuation is going to be increasingly essential to avoid having to spend time navigating the touch screen.
A few years ago I’ve experienced shifting with a rotary knob in a Chrysler 200. I had to look down to it as well. Why couldn’t they give a stronger detent for R and D in relation to all other detents? If that had been the case I could have shifted while watching the traffic.
Oddly enough, it seems that Wicker Park, Chicago and Eugene have some commonality when it comes to new car buying habits. Of course, due to winter the used car scene is a bit different.
Now that nobody buys stick shifts anymore and there’s no need to have a common hole in the floor to handle both types of transmission I see no need for a floor shifter. Maybe this is due to my age and the kind of cars my parents drove, but I’d like to see a return to the column shifter. But if that’s not gonna happen, there should be some sort of push button standard for the industry. As schemes proliferate, we’ll see more things like that actor who was crushed by his own Jeep because he thought it was in park.
As an aside, one of the oddly satisfying things about the new Buick is it’s console shifter- the “snick” as it drops into D is a human-factors student’s delight.
You know that some new Mercedes have column shifters? But they haven’t been universally praised either in the press. People mistake them for the wiper stalk.
We have that in our ’14 GLK Diesel. Absolutely love it, and it does remind me of the old column shifters a bit. Funny thing technology, in many cases it only glosses over the crappy parts of “progress”. Case in point with our GLK: It has such good sight-lines and glass area, that I NEVER need a rear camera, although its there when I’m in reverse. If modern vehicles didn’t have such awful visibility would we really view cameras as a needed “feature”?. My old ’67 Dart was like that, you could see all four corners. How nice that was!
Adding more fuel to the fire regarding Mercedes column shift is the Valhalla train crash in 2015.
The driver relied on her muscle memory when using the column shift as if it was an American car with P-R-N-D-S-L column shift. Instead of pushing P button at tip of shift, she inadvertly selected R, which caused the Mercedes to roll back into the train track.
Actually, the driver of the ML350, Ellen Brody, is assumed to have been trying to back up, but her vehicle went forward (and into the path of the moving train) instead.
I had no idea. Good for them. Hope other automakers follow.
“It’s fiddly. One has to always look down to find it, and then the right button. With our TSX, I don’t ever have to look. I just grab the shifter, move it and go.”
This a hundred times! That seems to be the general trend in automobiles, including the obvious complaints about “infotainment” and such. Have they entirely forgotten that a priority in automotive applications is the make things intuitive enough that you don’t have to take your eyes off the road (either at all or for more than a split second)?
Why not at least place those buttons somewhere at eye level?
I lucked into a free upgrade to a current gen XC90 a while back to do a one-way rental to my brother’s place in PA. I was astounded at how horribly complex and distracting simple controls had become. Adjusting the bass/treble on the stereo required a swipe down on the screen to get the settings menu, selecting audio controls, selecting the tone button or something like that, then dragging a slider across the screen. Thank goodness I had their “Pilot Assist” lane-keeping steering system to keep me on the road! On my old Audi, you push a small physical knob labeled “bass” to pop it out, and turn it to the desired level and pop it back in. Simple, functional, safe.
“Oh; that’s been changed to buttons too. And not for the better. I much prefer a lever shifter, since it doesn’t require looking down. It’s a pain to have to move the eyes so far away to find the right button, and really slow down backing out or making other maneuvers. Each of the main gear selectors is quite different too; one has to pull up on the Reverse thing, obviously to help avoid running over old ladies or kids behind the car.”
At least the buttons on the Acura are within reach.
My FIL Terrain has the push-buttons down low on the center stack and you have to lean forward to reach them… Including the manu-matic function, making it useless.
Not having experienced button shifters for myself, I can’t render an opinion, but I would like to point out that here Honda appears to have at least thought it through enough to make each button have a different shape and feel: Park appears to be flat, reverse is down, neutral has a raised bump, and drive is the big round one. I would bet that with a little more seat time your muscle memory would know where the buttons are and it would become apparent by feel which one you’re about to push. Now the question is whether the time spent on this learning curve was actually worth it. To me, it seems more logical than, say, the joystick thingy in recent BMWs.
As for the pushbuttons, I suspect that with some repetition you would be able to work those buttons by feel, given their varying shapes. But as with the Mopars of yore, some will like them and some won’t.
One more example of a new car that should be an improvement over the old one in its powertrain dynamics but is not. I experienced this in my extended test drive of the new Sedona. Within the first half mile after getting my old one back I had forgotten all about the many nice features on the current model.
I find it frustrating that every new car which has such fabulous objective specs is a letdown behind the wheel. The 90s-00s is going to go down as a golden age in terms of pleasant powertrains. If it is going to take a well-done electric to solve the problems brought on by CAFE, then sign me up.
I’m inclined to agree Jim. I “car sat” a friend’s 2016 Civic (with the 1.5T+ CVT powertrain) and while on paper this new powertrain is a marvel of power-density and fuel economy, my one thought when driving it was “well I can’t wait for electrification.” Absolutely no enjoyment or engagement from driving the thing. This same friend had a 2009 Mazda3i previously with the lower end 2.0 liter motor and 4 speed automatic, that seemed vastly more satisfying to drive from a powertrain perspective. Likewise the Civic is loaded up with infotainment and a very modern looking interior, but the materials and quality of assembly are decidedly subpar. It was a breath of relief to then plop down in the red velour seat of his 210k mile ’98 Chevy K1500 and take that for a spin through farm country, the 305 burbling away. Likewise I enjoy the analog nature of my 2.8L Audi, never mind that the CVT Civic would blow me into the weeds on acceleration while at the same time getting double the fuel economy. I just like the very linear way that 30 valve V6 builds power and how it sounds and feels while doing so. Good old hydraulic steering too.
“One has to always look down to find it, and then the right button.”
That’s where I think these knobs and buttons are really a bad trend. Gear levers are the same in every car; you never have to worry that you’re pulling it the wrong way, or grabbing the wrong lever, or crashing into something while you take a long look to try to find the right button in this particular car. I wonder if that’s what ultimately killed Anton Yelchin. New isn’t always better…
What worries me about this is as an upper middle aged guy I don’t wear glasses to drive, my distance vision is fine. But seeing the writing on all those little buttons is a chore.
Not quite time for the Top Gear old people’s car, but it’s coming!
In terms of standardization and space utilization, I’m not convinced there’s been any improvement over the once ubiquitous PRND21 automatic column shift.
For as long as I can remember, I can locate objects around me by recalling their distance from my hands and where I am seated. After a while, I know where buttons, etc., are located without needing to look. But manufacturers should not be requiring drivers to look down to shift.
Your impressions of the TLX echo my thoughts of it when I first drove it back in 2015… it’s a nice enough car, but apart from tech features doesn’t feel all that advanced or improved over the TSX/TL.
This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, though I would have preferred the TLX to have felt a bit more solid and refined, befitting of its luxury price tag. Especially now that the new Accord is out, offering considerable refinement, style, and technology for its class, plus an interior that can be just as nice as a TLX while costing considerably less.
This is Honda’s problem with Acura’s sedans. As their luxury division, Honda should debut the latest styling, technology, and other amenities on Acura and let them trickle down to lowlier Honda. Unfortunately Honda does the opposite in many ways. So when they can sell you a Civic or Accord with just about all the same tech features, more style, and interiors that can be just as luxurious for a whole lot less, there is little value proposition in Acura’s sedans.
Also, I would like to drive a TSX wagon at some point. Your description of its handling with its more favorable weight distribution intrigues. My own TSX V6 had plenty of pickup off the line and never felt underpowered, but torque steer was always prevalent and cornering wasn’t its greatest ability. I even recall that the weight distribution might me 63:37, either way not the greatest.
On a side note, regarding somewhat confusing gear shift selectors, it amazes me that there have not been international regulations to standardize them in all cars for safety concerns. Read Fleming brought this up last time him and I caught up and it actually surprises me more hasn’t been done to standardize them across the board.
“Unfortunately Honda does the opposite in many ways.”
It really is bizarre that Honda landed itself in this rut with the TLX and ILX. I wonder how/why they did it. CUV tunnel-vision, perhaps.
Brendan, I love my TSX wagon, and honestly I don’t miss having a V6 under the hood. Paul perfectly describes what it’s like to drive, and it certainly doesn’t behave like a FWD vehicle at all. I’ve had mine for two years now, and I still love getting in it and driving anywhere, even short distances. I’ve never driven the TSX sedan, but it makes sense the wagon has a better weight balance because of the rear of the car. It certainly is a stunning wagon, even all these years later.
Honda faces the same challenge with Acura that Ford has faced with Lincoln over the decades.
It’s the FORD Motor Company, and the Ford division will always come first. It’s no different with Honda and Acura.
Given the fierce level of competition, and the need for new technology and alternative power plants, Honda isn’t going to give Acura unique platforms, and Honda vehicles will continue to get most of the good stuff first.
Well, and that’s the other thing: both Acura and Lincoln are regional luxury brands that aren’t relevant or even present in a global sense. They also share their resources with already-strong brands that offer pleasing designs and plenty of bang-for-the-buck. So it’s hard for their respective automakers to put these luxury brands first when their mainstream brand is so much stronger.
I do think Lincoln is on its way up, though.
It’ll be lifted up by its crossovers and SUVs — the new Navigator is now Lincoln’s halo vehicle.
Lincoln seems to be in a similar position to Acura: the crossovers are really doing the hard work. That being said, the Lincoln MKZ sells almost as well as the Acura TLX – both sedans seem to be keeping their heads above water. I imagine the Continental will be gone soon and I’m wondering if the Acura ILX and RLX will follow it to the graveyard. Acura should have a sub-RDX crossover like they have in China.
And as much as people want to knock Lincoln and Acura, they’re probably fairly profitable for their owners given the amount of shared mechanicals plus their higher prices. And Lincoln seems to be at least as good as Acura – and often better – at distinguishing their cars from the Fords on which they’re based.
It will be interesting, too, to see which brand continues to sell better in China.
About the push button transmissions… my parents almost wound up in divorce court when I my father confused the “R” button with the “N” button on the family 59 Plymouth…
Own a 2010 4 TSX sedan done round trips Boston to Phoenix a couple of times generally 800+ miles a day – the seats are amazingly comfortable – especially compared to my “yoot” when I drove a 70 318 Duster (bench seat) from Boston to Tucson and back sort of in the fashion of the movie Vanishing Point with only a little less drama.
Gear levers are the same in every car, you never have to worry about putting the car in the wrong gear…..ummmm, maybe, maybe not.
About 12-15 years ago my father let me drive his Chevy Beretta from PA to TN as I thought that I might be able to sell it to a co-worker that needed a car. On the outskirts of Knoxville I decided that I needed a bit more speed to pass slow moving traffic and being tired I forgot that I wasn’t in my Civic with a manual transmission and shifted the Beretta’s transmission into neutral. It took me a few very sweaty moments to realize why I had LOST momentum and not gained speed no matter how much I pressed on the accelerator.
I can’t even imagine how confusing console mounted buttons would be in an emergency if you were driving a new/strange car.
I like the looks of this TLX inside and out far more than the TL predecessor. The recent midcycle facelift ruined that, but I’m not going to thoroughly criticize any car that still offers a 3.5 V6 and geared transmission in 2019.
The shift button array is inexplicable here. It takes up as much console area as a lever. I suppose it’s helpful if you are groping about blindly for your coffee in the forward cupholder, but otherwise I think it is just another gimmick.
Acura: The automotive equivalent of cold stale toast. Sure you can eat it , but it’s never your first choice, or second, or third. They may by some measure be doing “Well” but for a company that opened the door to Japanese Luxury automobiles and therefore set the bar, they have only lowered the bar ever since.
I suspect that if you actually drove it for a while the buttons could be navigated easily by muscle memory and feel. One has to assume that is the reason for the different shapes and the pull to Reverse thing. That said this is one of the worst applications of a push button shifter. It fits in the hole left by the old shifter which makes it look so cheap as they forced the stuff into an opening that wasn’t designed for it. Plus the big reason to go to push buttons in my opinion is to get them off of the console and put them out of the way but still visible and easy to reach.
This summer I picked up a MKZ and now that I’m used to it I know where the buttons are and driving my wife’s C-Max and that console shifter seems so archaic as I reach for the buttons that aren’t there. I’ve got less problems with the column shifters in the other vehicles, of course those are older and there is an actual shift cable that controls the transmission and they are not just massive switches like on most modern cars.
Either one works for me…
or…
Several lifetimes ago I drove an early sixties Plymouth, equipped with the push button automatic, for a couple of years. I never had any trouble with shifting into an unwanted gear and actually preferred the push buttons to the floppy levers in GM and Ford vehicles. At least in my Plymouth the buttons fell easily to my left hand as they were located in the upper corner of the instrument panel. Chrysler used push button controls for automatic transmissions from the 1956 model year through 1964 and I don’t ever recall them being an issue for anyone who had one as a daily driver. One just made the necessary adjustments and then went on with life.
My wife and I test drove a variety of minivans a while back including a Honda Odyssey. It was shockingly sluggish with the ECO button enabled. Felt like the handbrake was on and half the spark plugs were out. The transmission shifter was similar to the TLX above and major turn off for her.
That’s how this one felt.
I use the ECO button in my Civic sometimes to keep me honest, as I definitely enjoy driving in a spirited manner.
What I’ve found with the 2016 Civic EX-T Coupe is that when the button is engaged, you’re limited (at first) to 4K RPM from the 1.5L Turbo I-4/CVT combination. In an emergency, you smash it to the floor, and it will then go beyond 4K on up to the rev limiter.
When you disengage the feature, at the same throttle input (about halfway to the floor in my car’s case), you get about 5500 RPM and better acceleration for that same input.
So the car isn’t really anymore sluggish, it just requires you to kick it like you mean it when the ECO light is lit, but you need the power.
When driving like a sane person (with ECO both on and off for comparison), especially in the summer where this feature also throttles back the HVAC a bit, I’ll see about a 1 to 1.5 MPG improvement over not using it.
The ECO Mode is usually only used on a trip, when I am trying to behave anyway. I rarely turn it on for my commute.
Thankfully, my Civic has a NORMAL shift lever, with PRNDSL as my choices in that order. That said, I think I’d be able to get used to some other type of control, but I like to rest my hand on the shift lever, and would feel naked without it. I’ve kinda got used to consoles in that way, as it’s a perfect armrest.
Driving a car with a bench seat and a column shifter would seem really weird to me now.
The Eco button on a modern Kia plays with the transmission shift points. It drove me batty and I had to keep it off. In my 2012 there is a green Eco light that lights up when I am driving calmly and goes off when I am not. That is the kind of Eco system I can deal with. Tell me what I’m doing wrong but don’t screw with my car. 🙂
In this pic, my car is not in ECO mode (there’d be a leaf on the left), but it has a similar function in all modes to your Kia. See that green arc over the speedometer/tachometer? That lights up green when you’re behaving, and turns gradually from green to white when you’re not (or always white when in sport mode).
Judging by that shade of green (I recall you have an excellent eye for color, JPC ;o), I must have been slightly on the gas there, because it gets greener than that.
Oops… forgot the pic….
Another proof point as to why sedan sales are declining. There’s just nothing here that seems particularly compelling, and the price seems high for what you get.
As for controls, I think it is such a shame that Honda/Acura now seem to be among the worst offenders in terms of unattractive and complicated switchgear. I recall for years how Honda/Acura interiors were outstanding with intuitive, ergonomically sound controls and simple, handsome and cohesive designs. No more.
I strongly disagree on the merits of the Model 3 interior. Yes, it looks nice in a starkly modern Jony Ive style. But as for functionality, I think having one touchscreen for virtually all controls and all readouts is problematic. And before I get blasted by Tesla fanatics for my heresy, let me say that I’ve spent time in a new Model 3, in Chicago traffic, so my comments are based on first-hand experience. The Model 3 belongs to a friend of mine who always gets the latest automotive toys, and so he jumped on the bandwagon (his car cost about $65K, so not exactly the affordable EV revolution that was promised). The challenge is that too many controls are pushed into the touchscreen, and the effect is not superior and is less ergonomically sound than well-executed conventional controls. Wiper adjustments via touchscreen? Only being able to open the glovebox via touchscreen? Dragging and swiping on a touchscreen to control air vents? The simple manual operation becomes a complex digital operation. Reviled in an ’86 Buick Riviera, beloved in a Tesla. The 32 year gap results in much better technological capability, but the touchscreen controls are still very complicated and distracting to operate. Fine for a mobile phone, wrong for a car that still actually needs to be operated by a driver who should be focused on driving. Yeah, yeah, I know, they will drive themselves, so what does it matter?
The Model 3 has fairly advanced voice actuation, including for some of the functions you mentioned. Like all aspects of tesla cars, that will undoubtedly continue to improve. I expect this to be highly functional in the future. Cars controls are already too complicated; voice control is going to be a key solution to that.
I didn’t try the voice activation, so the next time I see him and beg to drive the Tesla, I’ll have to try that out. It’ll be interesting to see if it can handle my N’Awlins accent–Siri can’t.
I completely agree that car controls have gotten way too complicated. That is what I miss about the old Honda products–they were elegantly simple and functional, which made them a pleasure to use. Today’s Honda/Acura controls make me think about the expression “gilding the lily” where “more” doesn’t necessarily mean “better.”
I have left my TSX Wagon overnight at the dealer and have had a chance to sample the TLX V6, but not the SH-AWD. The V6 is a smooth powerplant but definitely not a sporty option. A manual and a diet would fix that, but that is not likely. I too was a bit confused over the push button transmission, but I think I could figure it out and have no problem with it. I was easily able to Bluetooth my phone to the TLX, but it offered nothing that the base option on my TSX does. I did like the dual screens, as it keeps the music and maps displayed at the same time. Of course if you just have music going, it’s kind of redundant. Since moving to the Sierra foothills I’d like to get AWD and except for a Subaru it’s probably the best deal to get that option. Like you said it’s a nice car.
Paul, your sentiments echo mine in just about every way. I haven’t driven the TLX, but I’ve felt that whenever I’ve sat in one it didn’t really feel like much of an upgrade over my TSX wagon. I’ve had my TSX wagon for two years now, and love it even more than when I first got it. I now have 75k on it, and it’s been a great car for both short and long distances.
It really doesn’t drive like a FWD vehicle, and it’s a fun motor to drive. You’re definitely right on the power delivery. It’s instantaneous when you hit the accelerator, and that motor just loves to sing!
My Acura dealership has a little bit of everything for loaners. The two times I’ve had to leave my car with them they’ve given me brand new RDX’s with AWD and usually fairly nice models. They weren’t the brand new 2019 models yet, but I know they had a variety of vehicle choices depending on what you usually drive or you request.
I absolutely despise non-standard shifting. Call me a luddite, but give me either a standard automatic shifter or a standard 5-speed stick. Anything else is unnecessarily distracting and annoying.
The last time I was in Europe, I deliberately rented a manual, as I haven’t owned one for a while and thought it would be fun. They gave me a Hyundai i20, which had a 6-speed with a weird pattern that had everything scrambled and reverse in place of first gear. Only towards the very end of our vacation did I even get close to being able to drive that car without cursing and concentrate on watching the scenery instead of the gearshift. I suspect that in another couple of weeks I may have gotten used to it, but that’s the last time I’ll ever willingly accept a rental like that.
Another time I rented a Ford Fusion that had an automatic with a rotary knob for the gear shift. That, at least, was easier to get used to, but I really don’t understand why such fussy nonsense even needs to exist.
I’m still not quite acclimated to the “joystick” shifter in my ’08 Prius (that I’ve owned for 14 months).
I drove an automatic car for the first time in nearly 12 months this week, fortunately it had a lever hanging out of the floor to make it easy to navigate the functions, It appears Ive been sentenced to retrieve another milk fleet car again today and after reading this I’m kinda glad they are just old Holdens not push button activated Hondas, I wear glasses for distance sight and another pair to read and having to change them just to work out what button to push for a desired gear is beyond stupid, obviously these type of cars are not for me as I prefer three pedals and a manual shift.
That gearshift selector setup looks like a solution in search of a problem. Just like light adjusting rear view mirrors when the little flippy button was all we needed, and worked better too.
The whole dash arrangement is a mixture of touch screens, buttons, and displays. It is an assault on the senses when your attention is supposed to be focused on the road. An ergonomic nightmare as it were.
Oh and I still despise the Darth Vader-esque shield on the front grille.
I respectfully have to disagree on the auto-dimming mirrors, Moparlee.
My 2016 Civic was the first car (other than my wife’s 2009 Lancer) since my ’83 T-Bird that did not have them. From my ’88 T-Bird on forward, I had the auto-dim rear-views in my cars and when I had to DD a car without them, I hated it.
I put up with the old fashioned flip switch for the winter of 2016 – 2017 (when the days got short and my evening commute was in the dark). Prior to the next winter, 2017 – 2018, I had my dealer install the option from the EX-L (one step up from mine) so I wouldn’t have to deal with it anymore.
We have a lot of traffic in the Baltimore/Washington region, with too many high up trucks and SUV(s) and their Xenon or LED headlights… Talk about distraction… Not having to flip that switch when I need to focus on driving is very important to me…. But as usual, YMMV. ;o)
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I have an auto-dimming mirror on one of my cars and I can’t stand it. It does not dim the headlights in the rear at night as well as flip up mirrors do. Hopefully yours works better than mine. 🙂
Actually, auto-dimming mirrors are really convenient, because they remove the burden of having to do something (flip the mirror switch) versus adding a new burden and making things more complicated. Compare that to this shifter, which takes an intuitive action and makes it more complicated. And it doesn’t take up particularly less space than a conventional shifter, either. Honestly, I don’t see the point.
I also don’t like the monostatic gear selector in my 2015 Grand Cherokee, which requires you to rely on stimulated detents to know which gear you’re in. I often end up in Neutrral when I intend to be in Drive.
Remember when you were a kid, and you discovered your parent’s blender on the kitchen counter sitting there with all those buttons? And you delighted in pushing all of them and listening to the motor change speed instantaneously? Then, you were over it. I’m still over push buttons. And touchscreen activation.
I used to look forward to my next car after a year or two, but now I want to hang on to my ’03 vehicle with a conventional shifter, rotary HVAC controls, and comfy cloth seats forever.
That’s how my wife feels about her ’09 Lancer. It’s simple. She hates driving my 2016 Civic. She says it’s like piloting a spaceship. I’ve gotten used to it.
But I still get a simple pleasure from driving my 2007 Mustang. Simple driving controls, an all six important gauges…. in simulated analog even! ;o)
Legible gauges – another thing I miss in my wife’s Mazda 3.
I like those Mustangs, and if I was in my ’30s when they came out, I’d have bought one, too.
I was 47 when I bought mine. You’re never too old to enjoy a cool car. 😀 My Dad was 75 when he bought his!
Oh, and the Mazda 3… yeah…. Zoom Zoom!
My stepson has one with the base 2.0L and 6 speed manual. I love driving that car. I almost bought one when looking for a fun to drive commuter car, but picked the Civic instead. It’s fun to toss around, too.
+1
I was 64 when I bought my current Mustang, it was my retirement gift to myself 🙂 Some people are old when they are 30 and some people are still young no matter what their chronological age is. I still think of myself as a young person, at least until cold weather makes my knees ache.
I agree with you on your verdict, Paul. Aside from the general decline of sedans, the problem is that there isn’t enough room on the market for quietly-upscale cars like your TSX. So you see brands that used to exist in that sphere make changes. Acura’s tried to inject more “personality” into its cars. Volvo went upmarket. Buick is just struggling outside of the Enclave and Encore, the latter of which is quite old by this point.
The closest successors in spirit to your TSX, in my mind, are probably the Buick Regal Sportback and TourX, and…well…you see how well *those* sell.
As to the shifter, when I totaled my 2014 Lincoln MKS about this time last year, I received (ironically) a 2016 Lincoln MKX via my insurance. I had the car for two and a half weeks, and still couldn’t get used to the push-button arrangement on the side of the infotainment stack. But at least it was in eye-view of the driver. However, the buttons all looked and felt exactly the same.
The dumbest thing I’ve seen, though, has to be the setup on the new (2018+) GMC Terrain. Not only does it rely on a bunch of poorly-laid-out switches in the center stack for P-R-N-D controls, the manual +/- buttons are there as well, and they’re tiny. Like, in any scenario in which someone would put the car in manual mode, would they really want to fidget with those tiny controls?
My MKZ has a similar set up as that era MKX and now I don’t have to look to find the button I want, but it did take more than a couple of weeks.
The only pushbutton shifter I’ve seen that really makes sense is the Allison heavy truck transmission which is usually right next to the steering wheel
@ Brendan Saur; I looked at Acuras a couple of years ago when my gentleman friend was looking for a car (he ended up with an Audi Q5). The Acura, some sort of sedan, who can tell with their stupid letter combinations, looked and felt exactly like the Accord another friend has. Same dashboard architecture, same door panels, same everything, but significant price premium. Why buy an Acura then? In addition, all the additional technology tends to break expensively; ask some of the people who have/had a TSX about some of the touchscreen technology used to control the HVAC and when it goes out and how you cannot use the HVAC any more once it breaks.
When Acura debuted in 1986, the Legend and Integra were very different from their Honda equivalents. The Legend had a V6 and was a lot plushier and nicer than an Accord; The integra was much sportier and didn’t have librarian/econobox styling. Plus, Acura was, except for the Maxima/Cressida, about the only game in town for Japanese premium cars.
I cannot fathom paying 33k for a four cylinder one of these or 46K, no matter how many toys they put on it. It’s still an accord underneath. Even if they are discounted, what would be the difference in price between this and an Accord?
Regarding the PRNDL buttons, this seems like a dumb idea and i’m sure after a while a standard configuration will be found. The knob in the Pacifica is fine. Why would they hide these on the console? What’s the advantage to a bunch of buttons? I know my dad refuses to buy a car with a column shift, he thinks it’s for old people, but all he can drive is automatic so what’s the difference? I prefer column shift.
I also hate beeping safety nannies; the beeping startles me. I cannot see that this is going to improve people’s driving.
I love the shift control on my 2010 Infiniti G37 – it falls straight to hand and I do not have to look down to change gears. And look at those heated seat controls – dials that are so easy to find and use, like just about everything else on the car. Quite unlike my friend’s newer Audi A4 that requires one to go through the screen to do something simple like turn on the heated seats. I’m glad I do not have to rent a car very often as it is becoming more of a challenge all the time.
There really needs to be more standardization for controls like those for the transmission. This was a problem in the 50’s and 60’s until safety concerns took over. For example, in 1959 Buick offered Twin and Triple Turbine versions of their automatic transmission with entirely different quadrant positions for reverse – not a great idea when it comes to safety. And the automatic transmission selectors on 1954, 1955, and 1956 Chrysler products were in three different styles in three different locations. It seems like we’re regressing to this level of confusion today.
I’m really rather tired of Acura’s interior designs. They seem to keep peddling the same design which is both button-heavy and not particularly luxurious to behold – it was fine in 2010 but it’s stale now.
I can understand why somebody would buy a TLX over an Accord in that it offers a V6 and all-wheel-drive, plus presumably a better dealership experience, but I’d be tempted to just save some money and get an Accord which is one of the best cars in its class. Although I’d be more tempted just to get a Lexus IS if I wanted decent dynamics and a more upscale badge.
Perhaps I don’t understand Acura’s image/reputation, living in a country where the brand has never existed. I’d like to spend some time in an RDX or a MDX to see how much nicer they are inside than Honda’s crossovers. People often question the point of a Lexus or Lincoln when a Ford or Toyota can be equipped to almost the same level and often use the same mechanicals. But there’s often a difference in terms of design, material quality and features and this is what premium car buyers appreciate. If an MDX or RDX is no nicer inside than a Pilot, like a 2013-16 Lincoln MKZ was little nicer than a Fusion (at least there’s a Lincoln-exclusive turbo V6 now!), I’d struggle to see the point especially if Honda’s dealerships aren’t bad.
Also, what’s going on with the ILX? The new Civic has been out for a while now and has been getting lots of buzz and the ILX had an iffy value proposition even when the related previous-gen Civic was out. Now? There’s no point in buying one. The RLX must surely be living on borrowed time, too – how many could they possibly be selling in Japan to justify its continued existence? It’s not a bad car but there are so, so many other options at that price point.
I put 45,000 miles on a TLX SH-AWD Tech sedan which I traded for a 2019 RDX SH-AWD Tech crossover.
Both have the same push button shifter. The one on the RDX is up higher in the center stack.
I got used to it in a matter of minutes and can’t understand why so many people call it fiddly or counter-intuitive.
As for the Eco mode and collision warning distance, they are easily adjustable to your own preferences and your settings will be stored in memory.
I found both cars to be capable, quiet, and comfortable. I think they’re worth the premium over similar Honda models. The new RDX is actually an Acura-exclusive platform; at least for now. I wouldn’t be surprised if it ended up being the basis for the next-generation CR-V.
I’ll concede that the ILX and RLX are losers.
The ILX DOES have a powertrain that is not available on the Civic. The 2.4 litre with the 8-speed dual clutch trans is quite nice but, the chassis is actually inferior to the newer Civic.
The RLX is actually not sold in Japan. It exists there as the Honda Legend but, only an SH-AWD version. It’s a nice car in the US/Canada/China but, as it costs as much as a Mercedes-Benz, BMW, or Audi, they sell very few.
I’m glad it’s not just me who doesn’t like controls, like a gearshift or audio, that you cannot operate instinctively without looking around to find it. Sometimes, you sense that what is described as “progress” is actually “novelty” in disguise. If you want clear console, a small column stalk, Mercedes or Citroen Picasso style, seems a good choice.
And if you need an ECO function on a V6, you could buy the 4 cylinder? From the accounts I have heard, it’s suitably refined and powerful
On the pushbutton shifting… being different just to be different is one thing. Being different by doing something dumb is another. The MDX is on our short list of candidates to replace my wife’s wagon in the spring, but the shifter alone may disqualify it.