“Wooden Shoe Rather Be Dutch?”
Sigh. Corny bumper sticker humor aside, the Subaru Legacy had 140k miles on the clock and a well-maintained powertrain (the glovebox was stuffed to the gills with maintenance records).
After further lurking about, I found a hardback book about Abraham Lincoln under the driver’s seat. This historical work gave me hope that the owner was equally conservative with his driving. Nice tires. Clean seats. All the fluids at their proper levels with nary a leak in sight. I slowly concluded that the old girl had plenty of life left.
Fortunately, the kicked-in driver’s door and smelly interior made the other dealers turn-up their nose when the Subie went across the block. For $500, the Legacy became mine… all mine. BWAHAHAHHA!!!!
Welcome to the wonderful world of the $500 car. From public auctions to impound lots to private sales and eBay, they’re there for the taking. We’re talking old Fords that hardly ever fail, to mondo mileage minivans with kid scarred interiors to match. The cost of today’s affordable commuter with what could kindly be called ‘cosmetic issues’ has rapidly sunk to the point where it’s nearly equal to the price of a new scooter.
Even better, as the old saying goes, “They ain’t building em’ like they used too.” They’re building them better.
Thanks to huge advances in mechanical engineering, materials and manufacturing, the average vehicle has a remarkable ability to sustain itself well past the 200k on the odometer and double decades on the calendar– given the right owner and proper maintenance.
In my daily work as a dealer, I see the results of this every day:
Cadillacs old enough to drink in all fifty states with prior owners that bequeathed the ride to their unloved progeny.
Old Volvo wagons that you can’t kill with a Nordic stick, SUVs built for durability instead of bling that can still climb every mountain.
Even conventional family sedans that have watched an entire generation grow up and head off to college, still ready for grandchild duty.
For a true indication of the average car’s added endurance, look no further than Canada. Our neighbors in the Great White North recently reported that the number of 15-year-old vehicles on their roads had skyrocketed from just 800k in 1990 to 2.8m today. They’re not hanging onto to their vehicles longer because they’re poor. They’re doing it because they can. And the money saved is phenomenal. But the $500 car? How can that be a good deal?
First of all, understand this: the thousand dollar car always has something wrong with it.
Examples: the Subaru had a foul odor and a severely dented door. A $100 door and a $50 detail brought it back to its rightful glory. A 1993 Cadillac Seville had a coolant leak and needed a tune-up along with a shot of air conditioning. A Toyota Camry and a 1993 Eagle Vision I bought for $500 apiece needed nothing more than a cheap paint job that cost $260(called a “scuff and shoot”). A 1993 Volvo 940 Wagon, a 1988 Isuzu Trooper and a 1991 Ford Explorer Sport needed… well… nothing actually. They were just unpopular and ‘old’. The Volvo did have 305k miles but the engine was immaculate and everything worked. Finally, a 1977 Mercedes 350SE bought for $250 needed a/c, new tires, and an alignment.
That old Merc was a freakish, right place/right time deal. But most of the others had dozens of eyes on them and nary an interested buyer in sight. A few were trade-ins that had been placed on Craigslist for months on end.
But why did all these sell so cheaply?
Most car shoppers (and dealers) judge a book by its cover. Fashion rules. A damaged door or other body panel, peeling paint or lack of functional air conditioning stops most buyers in their tracks.
In time though, most folks pretty much just treat their cars as appliances. If it breaks a little bit, but it still works, they figure why bother even fixing it? Car buyers prefer to trade-in or sell their problems instead of fixing them, predominantly because they believe the repair cost is simply too much to bear.
That’s where the challenge and opportunity lies. Paint is cheap, parts at the local recycling yard (car-part.com) or parts store are a fraction of dealer prices, and the time spent calling a few shops to get a direct quote for the labor on a specific repair costs you absolutely nothing. Enthusiast sites for specific cars are great at telling you the weak spots of any particular model, and what to look for during the test drive.
Again, this costs nothing but time and the willingness to learn.
For those of us who buy for the long haul, or just want a good cheap car to play with for a while, my advice is to look at the ‘scratch and dent’ side of the market. There are a lot of cheap old cars out there that had owners who did the maintenance, but not the cosmetics or the seemingly big repair. A little homework and a good independent mechanic can truly give you a ‘keeper’. It will also stave off the five figured financial scourges of depreciation, higher ad valorem taxes, and insurance while keeping your car hobby affordable and fun.
In my case, it was a no-brainer. Sister-in-law’s ’96 Contour GL, 2.0 with five-speed. 94,600 miles at purchase. All service records included. A slight lope in the idle, but otherwise seems reliable. Some clear coat coming off the front bumper (only place it ever had damage).
No, I didn’t need it – but – the ‘ol lady’s riced Kia was slowly being driven to death with her job at a house cleaning agency. Better to slowly kill this one off. And at $950.00 – which is going to be paid off by my taking her out to Best Buy for a new laptop, not cash – I certainly wasn’t going to pass it up.
“Paint is cheap, parts at the local recycling yard (car-part.com) or parts store are a fraction of dealer prices…”
Maybe for YOU!
Steve, you just touched a BIG nerve with me on this!
When our 1992 LeBaron convertible died on me one beautiful September day in 2007, it would have cost me $3,600 to have everything fixed: new 2.5L, computer, etc.
I had the car painted a year before and it was stunning. I had the car towed to our mechanic and received the bad news the next day. Wifey and I talked it over, and regardless of how much we enjoyed that car, we made the decision to sell it “as-is” and cut our losses, as the car wasn’t worth the cash to repair it. The mechanic bought it for $500 for his helper, and he got the car fixed, including the A/C, for what I learned was $1,600!
That really stuck in my craw – not just then, but every time I want to fix up an older car and find out the cost is simply unjustifiable.
You guys in the industry get those perks, but those of us who simply do not possess the time, ability, facility, or the resources are stuck, and various “babies” we take pride in need to go away.
I learned that back in the mid-70’s when I tried restoring a 1957 Chevy Bel-Air 2-door sedan. Sold the car in boxes in 1979 for $400! That really hurt!
Of course I’m crying sour grapes based on emotion, but I fully understand that’s just how things work, but I had to get that off my chest, nothing personal, but I still feel anger and frustration when this subject comes to mind!
sniff…
Second opinions are like rays of sunshine when it comes to repair issues.
As for enthusiast groups within your community, they are the sun… and the moon… and the stars…
Zackman, you did need a second opinion on that car and to maybe try to consider bargining down on the shop rates. They fixed it for $1600 in whole sale cost parts without labor included. Maybe the car could have been fixed for $2500 if you given them 3 months to source the parts and fix it on extra time.
Lang is right about enthusiast groups -even before 2007 I saved $200 in parts and probably the same in labor by finding “the guy” who made up replacement shifter bushings for the crapp end bushings in late 1990s early 2000s Dodge OEM manual/automatic shifter cables. And 20 years ago I knew a guy who bought a very nice early 1980s Yamaha Virago for huge cheapness because it “would not start even with a new battery”. He showed up, paid $300 for it, and ,right in front of the prior owner, shunted a couple of wires around the defective kickstand-down starter-cutout-safety switch. This shunt allowed the motorcycle to start right up and my friend to ride it away much to the dismay of the just prior owners.
Steve, The ability (mechanical knack and research knowledge) and facility (tools & work location) are often the two most difficult to have but lack of ability is the toughest to overcome. My family had a friend who was a very competent woodworking furniture builder but when it came to automobiles/motorcycles/vehicles he was what we called “ham fisted”.
I hear ya.
Sometimes these deals work out well at the auctions, and sometimes I wind up with a spare engine, transmission, and whatever else is still working on the vehicles.
Mr. Lang you speak the truth on this. Too many folks expect 2013 brand new quality on a $1000 20 year old car and then they are disappointed when it does not turn out perfect. I go into looking at a $1000 or $2000 car with the expectation that there can and will be issues with it. I have been satisfied with all my $1000 car buys over the years because I take that into account first.
I could have waited a while and check out other options, but truth be told, we owned the car for 8+1/2 years and we kind of wanted to move on. That was the biggest factor, as we spent lots of money keeping that car running. Too bad, as it was beautiful and comfortable, the headlight doors never stopped working, and the back window regulators – after kit-bashing, never failed again.
Sorry to hear your story..but not every mechanic or shop operates like that…I have taken my cherished classics…65 Coupe De Ville, 76 Seville, and 80 Cutluss to the same shop for years run by two brothers who enjoy doing what they do and don’t cheat customers. Recent example-$200 bucks for new muffler, one headlight, oil change & grease for my Olds so she was ready for Spring….so I am happy as my 32 yr old car is cheaper to maintain than my newer Honda Civic.
I agree with this…
I had a well maintained 2000 neon that passed 210k miles that had tons of cosmetic stuff fall apart (and a few non-cosmetic, non critical items):
No working AC, Trunk lock not working (in through back seat only), scuffs & a little rust, and the tires were in need of replacement. And then it ate it’s 2nd transmission.
In perfect condition at 12 years old and 210k is it worth $2k ? And the estimate for a rebuilt transmission was $1600. I sold it to my mechanic for $500. Not sure what he did with it after that but it’s not on his lot anymore.
I’m charmed by the idea of the serviceable $1000 car. Until my older car fell prey to several cosmetic problems I might not have considered buying a scratch-and-dent special, but now that I own one that still successfully moves me from A to B I’ve become less concerned with image.
Those of you guys living in the snow belt, the rust usually got to the car before you could really get into the ‘sweet zone’ when a car could really pay you back. But with modern methods and proaction (and maybe a little global warming in there), even northern kept cars can enter a long gravy period.
Oh yes. My 11-year-old Toyota has rust only where I wrinkled the metal a little and the paint chipped away. I remember in the 70s my dad’s cars would start to rust the very first winter after he bought them.
NZ market Toyotas are galvanised just like Citroens rust is a non issue on modern cars
My ’08 Toyota does not have visible rust but there is a rust stain running down the passenger side front door that starts under the handle.
The ice melting chemical cocktails used on some roads in the midwest can still make a modern car rust.
As you can tell from my COAL’s I’ve had more than one of these cars…I can still spend a good hour or so looking through the local Craigslist car ads bracketing everything from $100-$1000, then $1000-$2000 etc just checking to see what is out there that is not half bad even though the $1000 days are pretty much well behind me. But hey, I have 3 kids that’ll be driving sooner or later, so more buying opportunities await me!
I bought my 98 S70 glt three years ago from the local want ads. The car has a dent or scar on EVERY panel. I looked the car over and took it to a friends shop and put it on a lift to check the suspension, everything was new on the front and the rear bushings had been replaced. Looking in the glove box revealed more than $3000 in reciepts from the dealer in the prior week. The guy was asking $3000 for the car with 130k km. I beat him down to $2250 and it was mine. the A/C compressor clutch went within the first week (A/C has declared itself an enemy of mine as it has worked perfectly for up to a month after purchasing every single car Ive ever had) of ownership. After a $1200 quote I put a shorter belt on and ignored the crazy summertime heat. With more than a hundred thousand kilometers this car has served me well. Now though Ive been thinking that somthing with a warrenty would serve me well and have been looking into a new 300s.
I have two 98′ models on the road and a 99′ V70 at my lot.
If you are in an area that requires a/c (it sounds like with the mention of kilometers, you may be in Canada), I would first have a mechanic figure out where the leaks are. I rarely replace compressors even here in Atlanta. But I do replace a ton of clutchesand sometimes it takes a second or third time to seal all the leaks.
However, this generation of Volvos tends to be easy to track down for leaks. If it were me, I would fix that A/C and then see how your quality of life dramatically improves once it’s operational.
I didnt mention that I tracked the leaks and replaced most of the specific (green) o-rings just before taking the car to an a/c shop. They said that to replace the clutch would require removal of the pump and either removal of the p/s pump and alternator or drop the sub frame both of which are time consuming. The S70 was supposed to be a short term ride, so I just added a short belt. The car has been dead reliable but is in need of a total front suspension replacement including steering rack(common problem with one of the fluid lines running acrosse the top of the rack). Im going to keep the car and get it back to shape over the next few month. The reason for thinking 300s is; I was at an rv dealer and there was one in that tripple coat black and blood red leather, have you seen this combo it just looks so exellent together. I mean I really liked the car but was sold upon seeing the red guts. Is there any other company that has a blood red interior? Just reminded me of a modern twist on broughammy goodness of decades past. Unfortunatly any dealer within driving distance does not have one on the lot and I am going to have to wait which gives my brain time to think rationally.
The 300S with that red leather interior does look sharp.
My son, after managing a Firestone for nearly 7 years (and making darn good money at it but disliking the babysitting factor) figured out that there is no real money anymore in servicing cars younger than 10 years (which is the policy of Firestone corporate stores). He decided to open up his own place and looked into franchising (which would give him more leverage on what he could take in) but still found a lot of policies restricting. So he decided to go independent, catering to the 10-20 year old vehicles, specialty vehicles, and has a few arrangements with car lots that do what Steve does.
Being careful with overhead and being aggressive with pricing, the profit margin per job is much higher yet the overall cost to the customer is less. Yes, the margins on the wholesale jobs (car lots) is lower, but it’s steady business with a good relationship as long as you keep it to an acceptable portion of your business.
Part of the draw of chains and “names” is the perceived (and I use that term loosely) quality that an unwitting customer who may feel more comfortable going to such a place that is akin to eating in an Olive Garden as opposed to a local family owned one location Italian restaurant. You may get decent service most of the time, just like you will get decent food most of the time at Olive Garden, but a relationship with a good competent honest independent garage can be invaluable. Those guys thrive on long term relationships, they treat your car usually like they were their children, and are usually cheaper in the long run.
At the shop, we try to be straight with people about their repair needs. Good mechanics and “car guys” usually like the satisfaction of fixing a car and keeping it going rather than simply being dismissive. Unless a car is a nightmare, a lot of problems can be fixed fairly straightforward if you take the time to figure them out. People opting to abandon a fixable vehicle may be doing it for a couple of reasons, some they don’t want to invest big money in a car that they might not really want (such as is the case with marginal vehicles bought due to circumstance rather than want), others it actually might be financially easier to simply buy another car than to figure out how to finance a repair (especially if they don’t have good credit etc…), some are simply lazy or scared that “this is the beginning of the end.” it is funny how I can explain to a customer how my daily driver has done well over the past 15 years with minimal repairs and good service – some think it’s karma, luck, or good graces. It is not but merely being observant and attendant to it’s needs in a timely fashion, sort of like a good marriage.
I had this exact same type of arrangement with my mentor when I was starting out in this business.
$65 an hour and cost for parts in the beginning. It sounds expensive to some. Until you realize that his shop could solve a lot of tricky issues that no one else in the area could diagnose.
I’m at the point now where I have one general mechanic who has his own business, and a lot of specialists who can take care of the unique XYZ job issue when it comes along (transmissions, electrics. etc).
I wouldn’t want any mortal soul to deal with the stresses of managing a repair shop. It’s absolutely insane what ‘babysitting’ issues come up. Your help can be far, far worse than whatever unwelcome clientele temporarily haunts your domain.
I would push my mentor into selling his business every chance that I could get. Not because I wanted it. But because it was literally killing him. Eventually he rented out the shop, and kept a portion of it to sell cars off the main street.
That has turned out to be a boon. He is living longer and living better. It’s also nice for me since I take his money every Friday evening when we play poker at his place.
Well here, there are only four of us, including me which I suppose I do not count since I am not a real employee, but this arrangement works much like a lot of traditional barbershops. The other two guys get 50% of the labor on any job, the shop takes the other 50% plus whatever is received on parts and incidentals. Customers can deal directly with the mechanic if they want, appointments can be made for an individual mechanic or open draw if no preference. Sales are rung up using a common POS system with a typical labor guide unless the car is before 1983 (common cut off for MOTOR) or if the job is unusual. This way everyone sees what’s going on and no hard feelings come payday. It’s worked well since 2004 and two of the three guys have been there since the beginning.
Even some of the more complicated cars are still “grease monkey” serviceable, my neighborhood Mobil has a 3 bay garage, and I see 7 series BMW’s and XJ Jags in their bays, next to meat and potato LeSabres and Corollas.
I’d pay a grand for the Caddy Steve but not the rest those are $500 dungers here I had a beautiful 93 Subaru the mileage said it was returning from the moon but for $450 it w3as a great car used no oil ran well just worth nothing here coz they’re old and suck gas, Volvos that age are hard to sell nobody trusts or wants them here, some minor damage negates any value a car might have and a constant stream of used JDM imports keeps values here low.
Where is ‘here’?
New Zealand
Aotearoa. Land of the long white cloud. Kiwi land. New Zealand to some
The problem I have with these “cosmetic” issues is, it’s indicative of an owner who isn’t involved – who doesn’t maintain or take proper care of the vehicle. About four newer beaters (over the last twenty years) have proven this to me.
Cars are built better – no question. But they’re built to a different philosophy: Whereas in times past, they were bulletproof; able to shrug off deferred or absent maintenance or gross abuse…today, as with imports in the past, oil-changes and an understanding of design limits (e.g. transmission) is a must-must-must. If you aim to run a modern car into the ground, you’ll find that ground a lot faster.
So, if sizing up a “What, me worry?” car…you have to ask what happens if you’re wrong, if the whole thing grenades on you. DO you feel LUCKY?…PUNK? DO YOU?
If you’re wrong, are you going to be eating grass in the park? Walking ten miles to work? Hating life? Sometimes there is such a thing as false economy.
Well in your case, the best option may be to lease the cheapest new vehicle that you can find. Payments will be small, vehicle under warranty, and you have that new car smell. Which is what I think you do already.
Actually…since I’m away from sustenance existence…my best option is cash on the barrelhead, buy a reputable brand, new. That’s why I sing the praises of Toy Yodas…boring as hell but, with a few exceptions, as reliable as the sunrise.
But when I WAS living hand-to-mouth…it’s where I discovered how to do this – what worked for ME. The best transportation for the dollar, was with the old, pre-FI, $250 beaters. I almost always traveled for free in those…buy them, work the bugs out, use them a year, and sell them for what I paid for them.
The second best was, new. Heavy cost, and if you’re borrowing, add that cost to it. But you get your money’s worth…most times.
The WORST…was the lower-end of the middle quadrant in the used-car lot. Man, I have been burned there; and more than once.
Actually my experience has been the sort of opposite. I find if the car has been immaculately maintained on the exterior then the mechanical have frequently been neglected, The more “prestigious” the badge they higher the likelihood that more money was spent at the detail shop than on maintenance.
Usually such cars are bought by social climbers or how should I say politely “marginal” people financially who see the vehicle as a stepping stone of sorts. That is common here in the South, especially with older European vehicles and some high end Asian vehicles like Lexus LS 400. With no snow, cars don’t age cosmetically so fast so you could buy an otherwise mechanically worn 250k LS400, spend a moderate (but not a lot) of money on a detail, do some basics, and sell it to someone who thinks they are an LS buyer in their dreams. They are the people that usually balk and can’t afford the $700 tuneups on the LS because the ignition system is double everything or in the case of one fellow with an attractive ES300 of if I remember 1999 vintage went to Pull A Part and took an MAF off a Camry for $30 and wanted it installed. My answer is “if you got this far, figure out how to install it as well.” we don’t gauge on part prices but no time to play lowest common denominator with these people. Yes I realize that times are hard, but spending money keeping an ES300 looking good getting buy on $500/wk gross is not good planning.
Although occasionally I have come across people that will buy into the Mercedes/BMW prestige/reliability thing and are genuinely astonished that even basic items cost 3-4 times that of a basic car. Or that “I thought BMW alternator lasted forever…”
Cooling systems have been minimised over the years and are now adequate when new lack of proper maintenance will cook most engines these days as tolerances are closer and ideal operating temp more important.
This is a classic case of the right tool for the job. Steven Lang and Curbside Classics are a perfect fit. The only reason insiders get their work done cheaper is the result of their own labor. The mechanic who fixed the LeBaron for $1600 did how many hours of work at home to make it serviceable? Shouldn’t he benefit by his knowledge and outside work? This is an aspect of the industry that is self-inflicted. Everyone feels they are just a weekend and a lucky find away from making a living in the business. They haven’t gotten up a 3a.m. to make three auctions in three days. Nor watched three months of hard earned capital get hammered, literally, into oblivion by the fates of a late found speedo spin. Or had a lot helper total your and two other cars (with $1000 deductible each) pulling into traffic. Or lost a UG contract car across an international border. If one car shows a profit of 25% on paper, I guarantee I can show you a dozen that were losses. If it were easy, everyone would do it. Steven’s facility with words makes it sound much easier than it has ever been. This business has a saying “hero on the 31st, zero on the first”. Very appropriate.
The last car i had was a £400 12 year old Ford Sierra.I had it for 2 years and only put a new radiator hose on it and basic service plugs and filters.A geriatric driver ran into it and tore the front bumper off and i got £200 off him to fix it,I got one for £23 at the scrap yard.My flatmate had one and we had a third car for spares which we took bits from.I used to drive the car into town go drinking in the bars and clubs and leave the car in the car park and go back for it next day safe in the knowledge it would not attract vandals or thieves.In the end it rusted away and i gave it to a banger racer when the MOT and tax ran out
Gem:
We’d love to learn your background. I’m puzzled…how a limey bird (can I say that?) knows so much about motorcars on both sides of the pond. Ye’re welcome here, luv…don’t get me wrong. But clarify things…and if ya likes, ya can maybe build it into a contribution.
I, for one, am interested.
Nothing special or unusual,I was a tomboy as a kid in 60s Britain who loved cars and bikes.My parents were American car fans being tall who had 2 Falcons and a Dart and an Australian Valiant.We went on holiday every year to America or Canada.Being a 6’1 and half Amazon I had a 64 Comet and a 69 Javelin (the Javelin was sold on to big brother and little sister who were also fans of Detroit iron)I dated a lot of my brother’s mates who had American/British classic cars.I can do basic servicing and a bit of welding and body work (not very good at spraying).I’ve no objection to being called a Limey bird,I love this site I see the cars that don’t feature in magazines and shows.
Always a treat to have the fairer sex on board! A hearty welcome!
I wish more females would comment, as I’m certain more than you read the site.
Now I gotta polish up my King’s English…
Thank you
Well then, you’re one up on me – I never learned to weld.
It’s unusual, to say the least, to find a gal who’s so into automobiles. And especially a site like this one, which deals in car MEMORIES.
The UK being what it is, and with not very many Detroit machines over there, it surprised me that you’d be conversational about them. Anyway, welcome.
Thank you,we saw a lot of American cars as both sets of grandparents lived near a USAF base and we visited at least twice a month.We also went on holidays to America and Canada where we usually rented a large Ford wagon.
$1000 car by the Bottle Rockets check it out on YouTube
I was going to reference this after reading all the comments and your’s was the last one in the queue. IMHO the only way you should purchase cheap beaters to drive is if you are capable of doing the work yourself; paying someone garage rates to fix something on a $1000 car is foolish. When I was young and had little disposable income I had cheap cars and did most of the work on them myself. I still remember lying on the cold, concrete of our family’s garage, trying to replace the starter on my 1961 Ford, a car I purchased for $75 dollars. Now that i’m older and have more money, that same situation would see the car towed to a professional mechanic post haste.
I guess it also depends on why you’re buying the car. If you’re buying a high-value, high-margin example of the breed to sell to someone else whose needs/wants it fulfills, I can understand there are bargains to be had.
Personally, I’ve been nothing but burned by cars in this price bracket (I should add these ill-advised purchases were in my teens and early 20s). But in those cases, I started by picking makes/models I wanted and then looking for examples that ticked the right emotional boxes. That landed me with a ’73 Cadillac DeVille and ’90 Volvo 740 Turbo wagon that both cost double their purchase price in repairs… with little benefit at resale time.
If I’d been smart, I would’ve started with a budget ceiling and then picked the most practical, reliable car available for the price. I’m still kicking myself for not going with the mint, manual ’91 Camry and ’98 Chevrolet Prizm I test-drove before both of the aforementioned misadventures. I’d probably still have one of them.
My first new car purchase was a ’99 5-speed Prizm, base model (no radio; the only options were a/c and rear defogger). Sold it 3 years ago for book value ($2300) to a friend, and it’s still doing fine. Soon it and its cohort may be the definitive $1000 cars. That generation of Prizm/Corolla, 1998-02, is going to endure as long as its NUMMI predecessors did; I still see mid- to late-1980s Chevy Novas now and then.
I tend toward the $2,000-3,000 price range. That may partly reflect the higher prices of my neck of the woods (a mild-climate college town). But I also tend to avoid cars with bigger problems. I buy private party and look for the little old lady with lots of repair receipts.
I’m not very mechanically inclined, so working with a good mechanic has been important. Lately that’s been a challenge, e.g., I’ve been bouncing back and forth between a wonderfully honest but not always competent guy and another one that does good work but whose ethical practices have given me pause.
Your preferred range has been my sweet spot too. When I buy an older car, I want one that looks good and where most everything (if not everything) works. I can do work, but but am at the stage where I would rather not.
I am all in favor of the $1000 car. The problem is that you Steve have access to auctions and hundreds of cars to inspect and decide on, all brought together with no particular make, model or year in mind. The average person looking for a $1000 car would have to focus on a particular make/model on Craigslist or the like and even then spend a fair amount of time making arrangements to see the vehicle. This greatly limits opportunities. I suppose just looking for orphans at BHPH lots could also work but then there is a middleman.
“The average person looking for a $1000 car would have to focus on a particular make/model on Craigslist or the like and even then spend a fair amount of time making arrangements to see the vehicle.”
I’m confused… would this be any different for a $10,000 car?
To the average person looking to buy just one car for themselves, going to an Adesa or Manheim auction would be like buyers’ paradise. Sort of like eBay all in one room in an hour. Of course private parties are usually not allowed at such auctions which requires them to shop around for selection.
I get the guy’s point, it would be like if one became a private client auction shopper, instead of going to auction to buy a few car’s at a time to sell to random buyers, you go to buy (in many cases take the person with you) one car for the buyer. Collect a fee for the service and move on to the next one. If you had a shop (as I do with son), car can be circulated through to clean it up, bring it up to spec make it right and make profit up front and on the back end. Then customer comes back down the road for repairs and turns on others to the service. I know this is done in the collector market and the high end vehicle market, but usually with buyers who don’t want to be involved and usually not with ordinary vehicles. Not sure what the auction houses policies are on that sort of arrangement but it is interesting. Sort of like a used car dealer without the lot, connecting cars and buyers one at a time. The only hitch would be financing, obviously to make the arrangement smooth and quick buyers settle their bills all at once.
Steve its the same as buying an expensive car Know what your buying and what its worth to you if it runs and drives, how well and how much do you want to spend fixing it, cheap heaps in any price range will have issues can you junkyard it or are you stuck with OEM new or used parts, I use aftermarket new parts because Citroen charge like Mercedes or VW for genuine and used for major items like the rear axle I scored yesterday knowing what parts were used on which cars becomes an artform but PSA is no more complicated than GM or Rootes, Ford or BMC and I know those pretty well.
Hey, I resemble that remark, being both Canadian and of Dutch extraction.
Also because my current daily driver is 12 years old, and I’m planning for at least 15. We traded our 15 year old Windstar in on a Caravan, which is now 6 years old (it’s the “new” vehicle 🙂 )
There is a cultural difference is the way that Canadians and Americans attach importance to their vehicles, it is not as strong an indicator of social and economic status here. Canadians generally drive smaller and less expensive vehicles. A new Caddy or Pickup in front of a run down house is very rare in Canada.
I totally agree that we’re driving older cars because they’re better. When I was a college student I drove a 13 year old car, and it needed constant tinkering, burned oil and had enormous rust holes. My current 12 year old Focus looks and runs fine.
I used to buy and sell, sometimes called “curbing” about fifty cars a year.
Most of them were $500 cars that I would flip for $1000 to $1500.
When I was buying them from private owners I found that one of the best ways to gauge how well the car had been maintained was by looking at the gas gauge.
If there was a half a tank, or more, of gas showing, then the odds were very good that the car had been maintained. If the gauge was showing empty, or less, then it was almost always an abused piece of junk that had been nickled and dimed to death.
Good policy. These days, $500 is the entry price for a crusher car.
I was flipping cars back in the 90’s, so I guess the same cars would cost me about $800 to $1000 now.
I have a 89 Corolla to collect its just sitting in a friends driveway $500 as is registered and roadworthied I said it was worth $1500 another friend is hassleing me to do him that deal as its a Toyota with no actual faults but Ive been too busy to put the deal together for him. Yeah its a cheap old car but its NZ new not ex Jappa so it will drive ok and no real rust good rubber crap paint good interior just an old Toyota which here are worth some money.
Many years ago I had the same kind of operation going.
The absolute best and most consistently reliable indication of how well the former owner took care of the car was how LITTLE change you found when cleaning it up.
If you found 50 cents. Bonanza.
$6.50, Watch Out.
Steve,
Have you sold that Volvo 940 yet?
I currently have a 1991 740 sedan (non-turbo) as my daily driver. I purchased it last year from the original owner for the mere sum of $950. It’s the best buy I ever made – I have had to do nothing to the car except replace the headliner and muffler. A picture is attached.
I also have every maintenance receipt from 1991 on – apparently the owner was a stickler for repairs and maintenance. He would change the oil every 2,000 miles whether it needed it or not, and only with Mobil 1 synthetic.
Yep, sold it to one of my mechanics. He ended up also offering up a promise to buy my 1988 Volvo 740 Turbo within 30 days.
We’ll see if that one goes through, and yes, both were in that $1000 range.
How many miles does the 1988 740 Turbo have?
My 1991 has a mere 157k on it. I am really, really hoping that it makes 300k and beyond. I’ve kept up a practice started by the original owner – he never drove it in salt or snow and I’ve done the same, too. Even though it lives in northern Virginia.
I’m about to obtain another one-owner Volvo, a 1995 960 wagon owned by my dentist, to use as my winter car. We’ll see how that turns out. It has 171k on it.
Now that’s almost creepy. I’ve always gone by ‘PJ’ (my first- and middle-initials) to close acquantances, and one of the best cars I’ve owned was a bombproof 1991 740 Turbo wagon (one in a series of turbo bricks). Only let go of it by necessity, when it was rear-ended and totaled on CA-880. I’ve since thought about acquiring a 960, but now I’d better reconsider… mustn’t step on one another’s toes, right?
I bought a 95 Olds 98 Regency Elite w/ 63K miles from a neighbor of mine for $2K. I’ve had the oil changed the cooling system drained and refilled and the front brake maintenance done. I drove it on a 150 mile interstate trip at a steady 65 mph with no problems at all. I’m getting ready to put new white walls on it. I got a quote for them of $500. After the tires I’ll have to decide if I want to pay to have the stereo replaced or repaired. It’s a great car and I hope to drive it to at least 100K miles or more.
Wow! Great timing!
I financed a 94′ model to one of my favorite customers not too long ago.
He came by to get the title yesterday, and wound up paying cash for a 2000 Ford Taurus SE. Both of them were dealer queens and the Taurus offered the cleanest interior I have seen from an auction car this year. It looked absolutely brand new. Right down to the buttons.
Keep that Olds. They are great highway cars.
At first glance, the fuzzy pic at top looks like a 1989-93 Mazda Protege.
This is why I’m very particular about making sure my cars are all garaged and regularly waxed. I’ve had my 3 cars for 15, 7, and 5 years, and each one of them looks better than the day I bought it.
I’ve found cosmetic flaws tend to make you start resenting a vehicle way before a mechanic flaw. The window regulator quits working, fine, that’s $100, on it. But a big scratch down the side? Thats new paint, never gonna get that done. And from that point on I care a little less about that car, maybe neglect a repair for a couple months, then another, and it’s just all downhill from there.
It’s the little things, the paint on the wiper arms peeling? Yank those things off and spray some rustoleum on them, 5 min later the car looks new again. Fix rock chips on the hood every time before you wax and they’ll never add up. Much like the listed Subaru, who ever gets my 1997 Outback with 200k+ miles after me will be getting a hell of a deal, hopefully the immaculate appearance, matching Pirelli’s, Bosch parts, etc will tip them off that it’s been loved.
Bought this old ’88 Volvo for $300. No AC and it had a broken door hinge but still opened and closed. It ran like a champ. I drove this beast for 3 years and only had to replace the starter and battery. I finally sold it for $900 to a guy who saw it at a gas station and wanted it. I replaced it with a ’97 Volvo 850 for a mere $2500 that only had 68K miles on the clock. What was wrong with it? The dash pad was slightly warped from the Florida sun. This was a $30K+ car when new. Who needs car payments?
Love those Volvo 240’s and they are actually cheap to maintain and to work on yourself. Here is mine. It was bought for $1000 and except for the faded paint and torn seat the car was good to go. Heck even the center console that cracks if you look at it hard enough was perfect
I dig it. Love to have another if the opportunity ever presents itself. While I love my 850, I do miss the simplicity and ruggedness of the 240.
The problem I tend to have with the sub $1000 vehicles is that the powertrain might be willing, but the suspension is not. It’s usually all original!
And cars have so many bearings and mounts and bushings.
…so many.
Thats where our crazy 6monthly inspections are handy all those worn bushes are fails and must be replaced or the car is scrap so minimum maintenance is mandated by stealth, dangerous junk like your dealing with doesnt exist if the car is legally parked at the curb
I think at some point cars become something of a disposable item. As long as they run/drive and are not dangerous on the road, people put up with the clicking CV joints and knocking struts and just run them into the dirt, maybe replacing worn tires with $20 used ones along the way. I just bought this Camry to haul my pool chemicals in for a mere $450. It needs CV joints, but the engine/tranny are solid. For that price, I don’t care what it does as long as it starts, drives in a straight line, and stops. I plan on fixing nothing. If it gets to the point where it’s no longer safe to drive, I’ll pull the new battery out and take it to the junkyard to throw away, making my money back in the process. If they’re cheap enough, you can’t lose.
My 98’s air-suspended and self-leveling and rides and drives great. My mechanic said to rebuild the front suspension would cost $1500. This is such a great car that I think I would have to pay up!!
I bought a 2000 Ford Contour SE fleet queen from a friend who told me, he’d sell it to me for $250. I didn’t need second car, but the price was so good, I couldn’t turn it down. It was a smokers car, and had sat for a couple years. I cleaned it up, got the smell out of it, put a new timing belt on it, added some nice features (pulse wipers, and a tach cluster) fixed the A/C. Drove it for a year, and then sold it for a tidy profit to a guy at the inspection place looking for a good car for his son.
My ’77 Chevelle was a scratch-n-dent buy at $300 6 months after I sold the Contour. It had a stuck lifter, a bad transmission, cold A/C and no heater. AM only radio, and enough faded and oxidized green paint to make anyone puke. 5 years later, its become the primary transportation for road trips as my elderly Explorer is losing OD, as such the fuel injected six can’t beat the carbureted 2bbl 5.0 V8 for highway mileage, and the relaxed axle ratio of the Chevelle lets the lazy 305 spin at a friendly 2500 rpm@75-80mph vs 3500-4,000 at the same speed for the six.
The Explorer much loved as it is by me and friends alike, is starting to face a costly repair again at 314,000 miles. The transmission has worn out servo bores, so it’ll require machine work to fix, which may or may not fix its 2-3 shift flare that its had for 150,000 miles and the shy OD that just cropped up. After 14 years, it might be time to sell the ole girl, but with a weak trans when it gets hot, it’ll be a tough sell down here, up north its more attractive since its rust-free, and looks nearly new.
It’s been a long while since I’ve come across a $1,000 car that looked to be worth my time. Mostly because I live in MN, and cars in that price range usually have some serious rust issues.
Although, I did find a car for my sister for $2,000 that has been great trouble-free budget transportation. It looked awesome until I backed into it. Now it looks awesome with a few scratches.
Here is one of my $1000 CL buys from last July. It is a 1985 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme sedan with under 100,000 miles that originally came from WV. While it had some faded paint(expected for almost 30 year old car) and it needed a carb rebuild(also expected for a car made and sold the during the time period that Miami Vice was popular) it seems like a good car. The grand daughter did not want it.
It is a Brougham so it fits in with the CC crowd 🙂
Clean it up, put a more attractive set of wheel covers on it, especially if it was 307 and having Brougham seats makes that a very comfortable and smooth ride.
Here is the 1993 Subaru Impreza that I bought for $900. Its only issues was that it had a few small dents and the passenger fender was replaced with a primered black example that was rusting. But everything worked fine(even the A/C blew cold). I sold it to a friend that needed a “learning how to drive” car for her son for a token $100. Her husband sanded down the fender and had it painted and detailed and it looks and runs great. It needed nothing to pass VA safety and emissions tests.
I’m a believer and have been for decades.
The potential for this varies considerably, however.
In some areas absolute junk commands big bucks and you can search forever and not find the $500 or $1000 keeper. In other areas its the reverse. Supply and demand is part of it, but also people’s psychology, ingrained beliefs, exposure to imports, dealer and reseller control over the market, the cost of advertizing, the presence or absence of “donate your car” campaigns, the list goes on.
Steve, I would be especially interested to know your views on the latter, the impact of “donate your car” on the availability of the $1000 car?
One time I was flown to a charity auction conference in Florida. This was about two years ago.
While there I was given witness to a wine and dine experience that would make anyone short of a Mercedes PR manager blush. Tons of food and activities for people with good hearts… that were making the auction company filthy rich off the donated vehicles.
We’re talking about arrangements where the charity would yield about $200 per car, while the auction yielded over $300. During the evening a bunch of folks from the American Cancer Society, the Wounded Warrior Project, and at least a half dozen or so others quizzed me about how much charity vehicles typically yield at the auctions.
I believe during that time the prices were high for scrap vehicles (starting bids of around $350 to $450 depending on the auction), and Toyotas of nearly any incarnation were still export worthy. I told them the numbers and they were astounded by how little they were making from the auction holding the event.
The experience disgusted me to such a high degree, that I have never gone back. My advice to anyone wanting to donate a vehicle is to either sell it yourself, or have it towed and crushed at a nearby auto recycling center. Then donate that money directly to the charity.
They will get more money without a billion dollar middleman, and you will have performed a good deed for someone in need.
Good point. A buddy of mine used to tow cars for one of these outfits in Alabama. They could legally advertise their business as a “Charity” as long as “some” percentage went to an actual Charity. They were being given cars & were taking somewhere about 90% of the share — the pocket lint went to whatever Charity…. if the car didn’t run, it usually went straight to the Pull-A-Part yard. EZ-money.
I have been in the car business in one fashion or another for over forty years. I started in the used car line in the early seventies and thoroughly enjoyed the simple cars of that era. Back then they were $100 cars, or even $1 units. I have bought and fixed up and driven and sold many in my day. The past ten years or so I have slowed way down because everything is more complex. The buying, the fixing up, and the selling. It is much harder for a shade tree type than it used to be. I have been in the collision repair side of the business for thirty years now. You used to be able to by wrecked cars and fix them up, but now even that has gotten harder. But, everything is relative, so there will always be deals out there. I, too, have always been interested in the ‘back row’ cars. The ones that aren’t attractive to the average person. The ones that can be rescued with some tender loving care. My current driver is a ’94 Cutlass Supreme that I bought 12 years ago with body damage and 93,000 miles. The lady did not want it anymore. I paid her $1700 for it, spent around $1000 to for the body work, and have been driving it ever since. It now has 205,000 on it, and I have never had a major failure. Tires, brakes, struts once (due again), a/c compressor once. And it just keeps going. I enjoy the used car business and sometimes wish I was still in it. But I am not much of a salesman by nature, and it can be so cutthroat. So, overall I am pleased where I am.
Normally it is not my comfortable price range (I am more into 5-15K), but on a few occasions I helped folks or a friend to find a private sale in that well-below 5K range. A huge part of experience (sometimes fun, sometimes less so) was evaluating and then interacting with a seller.
A funny example – a family of friends needed 2 stop-gap rides for a few months prior to moving to Australia from here (Canada). Their newish and posh rides were sold in advance.
On of the rides we found was the often hailed on these pages ’91 Buick Century with a 3300. 240kkm, first and only owner having passed away, the son-in-law was ditching it for whatever he could get for it. He was already drunk celebrating the sale by the time were back with the check. Pristine interior, very good aftermarket sound system, new tires. Everything worked perfectly. Some minor surface rust on doors and fenders, couple of dents and dings and a whining/weeping waterpump. Got it for 1100. The pump swapped in an hour (parts were dirt cheap and one could literally stand in the engine bay doing the swap). Buick ended up serving 6 months this family, then passed over to another common friend, reliably continued serving for nearly 2 years as a learner car for a young lady. Then it was sold off for 1100 again to a new-to-town “guest worker” from Newfoundland. Still sometimes see this Buick running in our part of town – seemingly unchanged from the last time I sat in it now a few years back.
Another time I was looking at an 03 Forester with 240 kkm but a huge pile of expensive maintenance done recently (head gaskets, suspension, tires, etc). In the course of conversation with the seller it turned out that the vehicle was their daughters who succumbed to cancer only a couple weeks ago and they were selling the estate. The car was not without some small problems, but I did not even attempt to bargain, just paid the asked (very reasonable) price. Now almost two years after it is still on the road, reliably serving as a mount to a friend’s wife in her home-cleaning business.
Since it is hobby and not a source of income, I tend to be very choosy with sellers, never pound down the price (try to find reasonable offers and stay reasonable myself) and it is huge part of fun and satisfaction when you see all involved parties being happy – sellers, unstressed by experience and getting what they want, and seeing that the car they cared for and enjoyed goes to a caring new owner. And the buyers who get a good car at a good price from nice folks.
Inflation has pushed gas to $4 a gallon and new cars to average $25K. So, can’t really expect $1000 to buy the same level of used car as 10-20 years ago.
Local junk yard will have ‘runners’ for $999, and the interiors are filthy. Crumbs, wrappers, and ground in cigarette burns. And don’t even try to breathe inside!
This is the route I took when we wanted a truck a few months ago – wanted a full-size ext cab from the dual airbag (1997+) era but didn’t want to spend a lot of cash for a occasional use/back-up vehicle. I was slightly stunned to discover what older trucks with a ton of miles on them are still going for and had to adjust my expectations but after a little scrounging found a ’00 GMC Sierra that looked like it been through the wringer but it had no cab, bed or frame rust and it had a strong running 5.3L and a good shifting trans for $1K. The rough looking body probably turned away most buyers and a smelly interior and noticeable misfire probably scared off the rest. I don’t care about the dents, the smell got a lot better after fixing a door latch to keep the rain out and the misfire was a fairly easy fix as I expected.
Spent a few bucks on some parts and a bit of elbow grease getting it up to snuff safety-wise and I’m quite pleased – it’s not pretty but at the rate I’ll be putting miles on it, it should last effectively forever.
I guess I should put up the picture of my 98 Saab. $500, 153K kms, starter was shot (the key doesn’t return) the interior was filthy but cleaned nicely after vacuuming it. Sadly, no heated seats :(.
Full tank of petrol!
I came across an ’83 Escort, manual station wagon w/ a blown head gasket in the mid 90’s. For $200, I decided that I’d buy it/fix it/flip it, as the only real attraction for me was the fact that it was a manual. Five years later, having gotten it to an immaculate condition, I was still driving it, as 30 mpg was nothing to laugh at. A white whale of a Ford van tried to beat me across an intersection and was T-boned. His insurance company treated me very nicely, paying me $1,200 for it. I bought it back for $200 to part out the drive train. Found a 2 dr. manual hatchback buried in the back of a used car lot, supposedly not running due to “head gasket problems”? Paid $150 dollars for it, put a timing belt on it, and Voila! another sweet running ride for minimal outlay. Just a little sweat, grease, busted knuckles, wash/wax/TLC. I drove it for it 2-3 years and finally sold it to a cousin after a minor failure. I was simply tired of Escorts and just didn’t want to fix it. I DO heartily REGRET that action!! My current “play toy” is a 200K manual ’98 Civic that I DID give 1k for because it was completely OEM and had not been modified in any way! Sometimes finding cheap cars to fix up CAN be FUN!! 🙂