2019 Update: My complete in-depth build documentation is here.
Replacing an old friend is never easy. I’ve been pondering replacing our ’77 Dodge Chinook camper for years. It’s old and not up to big trips anymore. We’re getting old too, but we’ve still got some more big trips to make yet. And this coming winter we’re off for to the Southwest and California, and we’ll be rolling along in our new DIY Chinook V2.0. This big, empty, white box in front of our house is the starting point, the automotive equivalent of the blank slate.
I’ve written up my love story for our Chinook, and the reasons why it finally had to go here. But it won’t be easy saying goodbye, as I’ve developed quite an emotional attachment to it. And despite its growing infirmities, it has been an exceptionally cheap rig. Between its purchase price ($1200) and parts and repairs, I don’t have more than about $2500 in it. And I’m sure I can get that back (or more) selling it, while it’s still running. But the time has come to have a new, reliable, comfortable, quiet and more efficient escape pod.
It’s not like I haven’t been pondering it for quite some time. I did an analysis of the three main Euro-van candidates here, back in 2013. I’d forgotten about the fact that I’d pretty much made up my mind back then. But I’ve had quite a bit more time to contemplate the alternatives, now that there are three good options: Mercedes Sprinter, Ford Transit and the Promaster, essentially a federalized Fiat Ducato.
After lots of consideration, the Promaster has the best package for what I’m wanting to do. It starts with one big advantage: its FWD configuration means it has a lower floor height. That means that the raised roof version has a 6’3″ interior height, which is perfect for me, and the same as in the Chinook, yet it’s only 100″ total height. In order to get that much headroom in the RWD Sprinter or Transit, total height is almost a foot taller. The Transit is appealing in principle, but its body configurations were just not ideal for my purposes.
Another advantage is that the Promaster has 4″ more width than the other two. These Eurovans are all a bit narrow, especially compared to the widened Chinook body, so that extra 4″ makes a bit of difference, especially with the floor plan I’m going to do.
Bottom line is that the 159″ wb Promaster (not with extended body) offered the best compromise in terms of its packaging. And at the best price too; more on that later.
In addition to a few other objective reasons, there’s also an emotional one: this will be my fourth “Dodge” van . The first was my ’68 A100 (Auto-Bio here). I bought it bare too (used, of course). In fact, it was my very first carpentry/building project, and I bought my first electric saw for the purpose. I paneled the walls in 1/4″ plywood, and built a bed in the back, and added a couple of windows. My GF made the curtains. So I already have one DIY van under my belt, although this one is going to be a bit more complicated.
And in some key regards, the Promaster is sort of like our ’92 Dodge Caravan, on steroids. I sure could have used something bigger when I took five boys camping all over Oregon and California in 2000. The Promaster’s drive train and configuration really is like a bigger Caravan. And it only weighs some 400lbs more (4,880 lbs) than a Caravan; of course that’s with a bare cargo area.
Up until the time I bought it, and even for a few days afterwards, my plan was to largely replicate the Winnebago Travato, which is popular as well as pricey (MSRP: $90-$99k)
It may look good in the pictures, but when we saw one close-up, the quality of the materials and finishes was really disappointing. there’s still lots shiny plastic-clad particle board. And the cabinet and drawer latches/locks are fussy, and two of them were non-functional in the one we looked at. It exuded poor quality. And its stuffed full of things we have no use for, which makes it heavier and more expensive. The truth is looking at these one gets the sense that it’s more of a shiny, expensive toy with lots of bells and whistles that we would never really put to use, given our camping style.
The Europeans are still well ahead in regard to functionality and aesthetics. If I was to spend that kind of money, it would need to look more like this, even if this isn’t all necessarily real wood either. Ok; ours isn’t going to look like quite like this either, but we are going to use a lot more natural wood than plastic. And we’re not out to impress anyone; just to make it feel (and smell) good.
Before I get into explaining my plans for ours, I need to digress and say something about our purchase experience, which was a bit unusual. Once I decided that the Promaster was the one, I drove to our local Chrysler-Jeep-Ram-Dodge dealer to look at one close-up and start a buying conversation. Surprise! They don’t carry the Promaster van line! They’re not a “commercial line” Ram dealer, meaning no Promaster and HD Ram trucks.
So I started an internet search for one, and one dealer that had some in stock was Dave Smith Motors, in Kellogg, Idaho. I had a good experience getting a great deal on our 2013 Acura XT wagon in Boise, and the drive back was fun, so I responded. I talked to a salesperson there, and he instantly came up with a great price right upfront, no begging, hassling, or any weird added charges whatever.
Meanwhile, my calls and email inquiries to a number of Promaster dealers in Oregon generated the opposite response: equivocating, extra charges, the commercial salesman is in the hospital, no returned calls, blah, blah, blah,…anything but a clear, quick bottom line price to compare to Dave Smith Motors. No wonder they’re the world’s largest Dodge-Chrysler-Jeep-Ram dealer. And Kellogg is a little mountain hamlet with a population of 2,063! They all work at Dave Smith, undoubtedly.
I was hoping to pay $30k for a stripper 2500 159″ wb high-roof, whose MSRP is $34k. Well, there are no true strippers out there, unless it’s a fleet order. They all seem to come (like mine, whose sticker this is) with the tow package/hitch (which is nice), rear view camera (also very nice), heated/power folding mirrors (sort of nice), cruise control (an absolute necessity for me), and the Uconnect 5.0 entertainment system (whatever). That all pushes the MSRP to just over $38k, with the destination charge.
Well, I got a final, out-the-door-drive-it-off-the-lot price of $30, 495 (no sales tax in Oregon), or almost $8k off. And that includes several years of Oregon registration. I didn’t really push very hard actually; I really appreciated that their starting number was so good. I hate having to grind for every penny.
So now to actually buy it and get it home. When I got the Acura, I took a Greyhound bus, and spent the night in Boise. That was not going to work well to Kellogg, but I was able to buy a next-day ticket from Eugene to Spokane, WA (via Seattle) on Alaska for $225. So I got up a bit early and was in Spokane by 9 AM. The salesman told me there would be a shuttle van waiting for me for the 70 minute drive to Kellogg.
Well, there were two vans, and the one I took ended up with four passengers, all coming that morning to pick up their new Ram trucks. The driver told me that there are five full-time airport shuttle drivers at Dave Smith Motors. That’s when I got an idea of just how big of an operation this is. And that was driven home when I saw acres and acres of Ram trucks parked on storage lots as we approached Kellogg.
Here’s the main street running through Kellogg, which is utterly dominated by Dave Smith Motors. This is their other store, across the street, a GMC-Cadillac operation (NW’s largest GM dealer). And they’re expanding, closer to Spokane though, with an Alfa -Romeo store, and reputedly they’re in the process of buying a Ford dealer there.
This is where I met my salesman, William Ellis. It’s not obvious from this shot, but this room is packed with desks, and salespeople. But when I went to the restroom, there were two more even bigger rooms packed like this too! All the showrooms are wall-to-wall desks, and no cars. Dave Smith employs over 100 salespeople! And they sold over 1200 cars in March; over 1700 in December! So even with 100 salespeople, that’s still 12-17 cars per salesperson per month. And they’re still growing. This was a real eye-opener for me.
William told me he’s sold cars to every state in the country except for three, even to Alaska and Hawaii. Needless to say, Dave Smith probably gets some serious volume incentives from FCA. Superdealer. And everyone there was extremely pleasant and courteous.
In less than two hours, at noon, my paperwork was all processed and I was ready to hit the road, all 530 miles of it. The tank was full, courtesy Dave Smith, and I snacked on the nuts and dried fruit I had brought along.
I’d never actually test-driven a Promaster before, so this was my first time behind the wheel. And I was quite happy there, especially the seating position. Unlike the Transit, which I have driven, the Promaster has a taller, more upright position, which really makes it feel like a bus or truck. I happen to like that, as it reminds me of my bus driving time, and just works well for my tall and upright body.
But Stephanie is going to need a bolster for her feet, as they won’t reach the floor. The seats are comfortable, with good lumbar support. I felt fine after my 8+ hour drive with just one short gas stop. And the lack of constriction around the feet is great. The engine is actually way down under and in front of the cab, there’s no footwell intrusion either, thanks to being up so high. A terrific cabin, but obviously not meant to impress in terms of fine materials or matching vinyl grain patterns.
It was an exceptionally windy day. Coming down southerly in Eastern Washington on I-90, 395 and I-82, the wind hit me from mostly the side, and yes, I could feel it, as one would expect from driving an empty big box like this. But it was not problematic; just a bit wiggly. When I hit the Columbia Gorge, the combination of heading directly west into the wind and the tendency for the wind to be amplified by the gorge, it made itself very noticeable, as in some serious headwind. To keep up its cruise control speed of 70-75 mph, the transmission needed to be held in 5th gear, upping revs to about 3100 from about 2200. But then by airspeed, we were actually doing more like 100mph. And although the 3.6 V6 has plenty of power with 280hp, the torque down at about 2000rpm obviously isn’t exactly like the 360 V8. But then the Chinook’s 360 spins at about 3000rpm at 65, given the lack of an overdrive.
Gas mileage for the trip was 15.5 mpg (actual, not indicated); not bad considering the very strong wind. Based on what I’ve read, I expect about 17-18mpg in normal conditions; or a range of 16-19mpg. In any case, 60-70% better than the Chinook.
Here’s how a slightly smaller Promaster 1500 hi-roof (above, and some other pictures) that the folks at the DIY website did on their first big trip:
Full trip was 2065 miles from Bozeman, MT down through south Utah canyon country and back.
Grand average for 2065 miles was 20.2 mpg on computer and 19.6 mpg on actual calculations.
Breaking the mpg down by type of driving:
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Freeway driving at 60 to 65 mph: 20.5 mpg
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Two lane roads at 50 to 62mph: 19 mpg
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Side trips up into the mountains on good paved roads: 18.5 mpg
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Back roads, slow, twisty, sand/gravel 5 to 15 mph: 15 mpg
Obviously, it was noisy with that bare body back there (with tape lines for our floor plan), but I have to wear my Bose noise cancelling headphones (with music) in any longer trip now, because of severe tinnitus. It would have been torture otherwise, at least for me. But in every other respect, it drives great. The rack and pinion steering is accurate, the big Brembo four-wheel disc brakes are superb, and the handling is surprisingly confidence-inspiring for such a tall vehicle. There’s been some very genuine progress made in trucks to make them feel like they’re truly car-like except for their actual size. And at 236″ overall length, it’s the same length as a Ram Crew Cab with a short 6’4″ bed.
The wind died down as the afternoon wore on. As pleasant of a drive as it was, it felt good to be on the homestretch at sunset.
So now what? Well, I really couldn’t completely flesh out the plans for my conversion without getting it first, and as a matter of fact, I made a major revision to what I thought was going to be ideal, a replica of the Travato floorplan (above). By using a more compact toilet and dispensing with the shower, and giving Stephanie a shorter bed, I had made it fit in our 14″ shorter body version. But Stephanie pointed out that it wasted a lot of space by using the side door, unlike the much more space-efficient Chinook rear-door configuration. And she was right.
So I came up with Chinook V2.0, and it allows us to have a tall ceiling-height cabinet across from the galley with a larger (propane) refrigerator instead of the very small one in the Travato, as well as much more storage. The Travato is really not designed for longer trips.
Initially, I was a bit hesitant about using the back door instead of the side slider for access, but actually it has additional benefits. The sliding side door is very big (and tall), and takes a bit of heft to open and close, whereas opening the right rear back door is a a cinch. And I’m planing to make the right side bed so that it partially folds back on itself, or can be fully removed, just in case that side egress is desired, or I want to use the van to haul my tools and supplies to one of my rentals in the winter. I’m actually very pleased how well the floor plan came together after making that change.
As to the design of the various systems, I learned a huge amount from the DIY Promaster conversion website. They used the shorter 136″ wb version, and it’s a bit more modest in its storage and amenities, but it’s designed for shorter trips and minimal cost. But the key similarities are that in both cases, it’s about making a camper oriented for boondocking (camping in remote areas, or no facilities), and not RV parks or campgrounds with hookups. That’s a critical one, as it defines the systems. All commercial motorhomes are intrinsically oriented towards being hooked up, and they’re not very useful when not.
They often lack enough natural ventilation, and all have rooftop a/c, which is of course useless unless plugged in, or using a noisy generator. We have no use for a/c, as out in the West, the nights are typically cool except in the desert in the summer. So I’ll be installing the largest opening windows possible (for views too), as well as a rooftop ventilating fan/vent. And of course, the first step will be to insulate the whole body (and floor) with 1″ foil-faced foam and filling all voids with spray foam.
One of the biggest changes from the Chinook (and all commercial campers) is that we’re going to buy a composting toilet, which will drastically reduce the need for water as well as eliminate blackwater storage and dumping, one of the less appealing sides of an RV. Composting toilet, you say? Yuck!! Well, I’ve been aware of them and their widespread use in boats, remote cabins and all sorts of places where a regular toilet isn’t ideal. But any inhibitions I had were..composted away when I read up on these.
The key thing is separating the pee from the poo, as mixing them triggers fermentation and the resulting strong smell that can only be mitigated by chemicals in the holding tank. The pee container is easily and safely emptied every 2 days or so, and the poo is mixed with peat moss in the composting/storage area, and is dried by the little fan that runs constantly, which is hooked up to intake and exhaust hoses. The testimonials all swear that it DOES NOT SMELL, and the resulting compost can be disposed off readily in the ground (or legally in the trash) eventually, but the composting process goes on for months, so there’s no rush. The acid test was running this by Stephanie, since having a toilet on board in the first place is her demand, although I’ve come to appreciate it too. But once she understood how it worked, she signed off. It will make the camper significantly simpler and lighter.
Shower? Yes, these compact motorhomes technically have them (“wet toilets”), but the water tanks are just too small to use them properly unless one is hooked up. The Chinook technically has one, but we’ve never used it, and the hot water heater was ditched early on, as was the furnace. Stephanie heats a bit of water and takes a sponge bath before bed, and I’m good to go for a couple of days, although it rarely goes that long, as I love to swim in lakes and rivers. And we inevitably find a campground or truck stop to get a good hot shower every 2-3 days. It’s just another complicated system not really needed as per our extensive experience. Or just call us earthy.
Having gotten that touchy subject out of the way, it makes the rest of the required systems easier. There will be fresh water tank under Stephanie’s bed, probably about 20 gallons, compared to the Chinook’s 30. Without the toilet, that’s enough for 4-6 days, depending. There will be a gray water tank under the floor, about 14 gallons or so. Emptying it can be done with a simple ball valve and 1″ hose instead of the big 3″ flex hoses required for raw sewage, which can only be done at a dump station, and which requires flushing out the blackwater tank too. Always a bit of a messy job; I’m thrilled at the idea of being done with all that.
The electrical system will be 12V, with an inverter/charger, a 12V (or 2x6V) deep cycle storage battery, and a solar panel on the roof that should keep the system going essentially indefinitely except in very cloudy/winter weather. And of course it will be charged by the alternator when underway. The folks who did the conversion at that web site used a small high-efficiency 12V fridge, which allowed them to use just a refillable 20lb portable propane tank, stored inside the van, with a vent. I’m now planning to go the same route, perhaps a slightly larger unit.
One possibility is to superinsulate a cheap ($99) Energy Star compact “dorm’ fridge, as someone has done on this thread here. It’s substantially more efficient than the ones designed for RV and marine use, and they start at about $600 and easily top $1000. So I’ll probably do the same thing, with a portable propane tank for the cook top, and a very compact little furnace. With good insulation, it will take very little to keep it warm in cold weather.
The DIY Promaster conversion at the link below cost some $6k in materials. Ours will be a bit more; maybe $8-10k. But that’s still a huge amount less than a commercial conversion. Sportsmobile, which is a popular conversion outfit, tells folks to figure on about $40k for something roughly comparable.
Enough talking about it. I need to flesh out the details, and get started. Since my busy season with my rentals is just starting, this will be a very much part time project for now, but it will hopefully be ready for the late fall, winter for sure. Stay tuned.
Lots of excellent DIY info here: buildagreenrv.com
Wow, this is great, I love a road trip when buying a vehicle having done it twice myself now, once from Beaverton, OR to Oakland, CA and then again from New Jersey to Colorado. It certainly makes the buying process more exciting.
Your van ideas are very intriguing, it’s much like building a TinyHouse, which is something that holds serious appeal to me but would have to wait until (most of) the kids are gone…Lots of TinyHouses (especially the really tiny ones based on a trailer or built in the middle of nowhere) use these toilets as well and my reading supports yours.
I look forward to seeing updates to this, I know you’ve been planning it (in broad strokes) for years now. The ProMaster is a great van that drives very well. You’ll find that even loaded with the weight of “house” it doesn’t feel much different except the ride is a bit more settled (good). It’s certainly not lacking for power in most situations.
The only question that remains for me is when’s the CC housewarming party?
The CC housewarming party will be in a very remote location in the Alvord Desert of Eastern Oregon, near the hot springs. Good luck finding us! 🙂
If I ever get the brakes on my Corolla FX fixed I’ll join you. Congrats on the new rig!
Congrats on the purchase, and happy miles!
Since you like Peugeot so much, why not having some fun and slapping a Peugeot grille? Maybe on eBay…
Excellent idea!
eBay makes it easy to sell takeoff parts like original grilles and lenses for respectable money if you want to do a bit of screwdriver personalization. 🙂
I’m looking forward to your new adventure(mobile)!
Thanks! Looking forward to see you pull the trigger on that grille, because as of right now, I’ve only seen Fiat and Citroën grille swaps on US-Spec Promasters. Yours would probably be the first Peugeot 🙂
I think you have the biggest thing necessary for this job – years of experience in a camper so that you know what you need and what you don’t.
Do you have any idea of the weight you will be adding? I could see another 1500 pounds very easily, or more. Does your van come with a transmission cooler already installed? That transaxle might be the weak link once you get it loaded up and head for the mountains. A fluid change every other year might be cheap insurance.
It will certainly be nice to head out into the boonies with a fresh, new vehicle. That will clear brain space otherwise spent wondering about 40 year old mechanical things.
I haven’t added it all up, but yes, 1200+lbs or so. The folks at the DIY website’s conversion added 970lbs, dry (without water and food and gear).
My van is rated to carry 4040 lbs (plus tow 5000). So yes, adding a bit of weight will smooth out the ride, but won’t be getting anywhere near its rated capacity.
The transaxle is a HD version, with large cooler. These Promasters have been in the field here now since 2013, and I’ve done some digging on the forums. There does not seem to be any significant issue with the transaxle to suggest concern.
Keep in mind that most of these are used in commercial use and rack up a lot of miles. I doubt we’ll put 50k on it before we peter out. That’s one of the reasons I felt comfortable going with it. I know Chrysler’s history with their FWD transaxle still lingers (I went through four of them with the Caravan), but these 6 speed units do not seem to be following in their footsteps.
Wow, I don’t have time at the moment to go through all the links and possibilities here, but this is going to be fun to follow on CC.
I’m still too wrapped up in boats and kids at home to follow the itch I have for perhaps having a camper / trailer in the future. You can get some pretty nice arrangements that will easily accommodate 2 people for well under $20K new, that will pull well with my F-150 Supercrew.
Conditions in the Midwest are a bit different, AC is really a must, which makes hookups inevitable. And, in a strange way, we are more developed in flyover country than people realize – so much land is either farmed or ranched that finding an open rustic place to just set up camp isn’t always easy. With that, there is a certain appeal in being able to unhook the camper, and move about with just the truck.
You’ve done an amazing amount of research in developing exactly what you want, something I enjoy doing myself. Its a very satisfying moment when your personal efforts rid yourself of a task or annoyance come to fruition.
There is so much meat in this post that I forgot about Dave Smith Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge, Ram. That place is a testimony to how awful so many dealers make the car buying experience. I’m glad they got the positive publicity from you that they deserve.
2017 guarantees that another vehicle will be coming into our fleet. A daughter at school is simply too much in need for a car to accommodate internships and peripheral activities to get by without one as she moves off campus.
Our ideas include handing down one of our vehicles, and the pesky Dodge Charger, with all the things that are just wrong about it, keeps coming back on my list of replacements.
Our vacation plans for the summer are really not formed, and a trip to the NW has possibilities. It would be an interesting fly and drive experience, and a 370 hp Charger R/T would certainly make it fun.
I forgot to mention that Chrysler had another $500 available for buyers with a business. I have a “business”, but it’s not registered and I just use my own name. But my salesperson did a search at the Oregon state records and dug up the fact that I was a partner in a business corporation back in 1994-1995, and that was good enough for them (and Chrysler). He did that n his own volition.
You may have just paid for my plane tickets!
I have an active LLC with revenues, while I’ve used it to buy cell phones and the like, I tend to forget about it in many cases.
I spent some silly money (attorney fees) years ago forming the LLC, but it costs only $20.00 every two years to keep it active. I’m in the process of selling the business assets (rentals), but I may have to keep the LLC alive for purposes like this.
Reading up on cars that might make our purchase list, I was reminded that many dealers will actually hide manufacturer incentives. The Ford Fusion is also on my list, searching dealer inventory on Ford’s site I found the car I wanted with a $33k MSRP was $29k with Ford’s incentives. The same VIN on the dealer website was promoted at $31k.
Homework pays.
Yup most mfgs will have a business to business discount of at least $500, usually applicable to most vehicles, it never hurts to ask for it.
Wow. With a MSRP of 438K, you got a hell of a deal!
But will it last four decades like the old one?
Happy Motoring, Mark
I also thought about doing a joke with that, but I thought I would come off as a nitpick 😀
I had to look and see if the “4” and the “$” were the same key. Yep… they are. ;o)
Righto! And I obviously am a terrible keyboarder.
Being the same key was the reason why i didn’t say anything. The reverse happened before at CC when commenter -Nate wrote “Triumph TR$a” instead of “TR4a”, and we all laughed because the typo suited the car so well
With what we’ve seen of your construction skills, this should be a gratifying build…and another long-term love affair.
Typo correction needed, though: “That all pushes the MSRP to just over 438k, with the destination charge…” Either a typo or it must be some really hefty destination charge!
Wow – I’m looking forward to watching this project develop.
I sometimes find myself longingly admiring small RVs like this when we’re camping (we still tent-camp). Oftentimes, when I see an RV that I really like, it ends up being Canadian. It seems to me (though I’m in no way an expert on this topic) that Canadian RVs are much more aligned with my own reserved tastes than are American RVs. And my guess is that they’re less loaded with frivolous bells & whistles that I wouldn’t want anyway.
I’ve also been unimpressed with the quality of some of the super-expensive RVs I’ve seen, so I found Paul’s comment about the Winnebago to be interesting.
Good luck on the new project!
Add another site member who’s going to be real interested in your future with this van. At the Richmond Auto Show earlier this spring, I found the Ram van display getting the second most attention from me (Alfa Romeo had first), and those new generation vans got both of us thinking.
Congratulations. This is wonderful. Thanks for all the ideas and links.
Congrats on the new Ram! Can’t wait to see how it comes along.
We had a similar electric setup in the Bears Bus minus the solar cell- at the time the solar cell probably cost more than the truck and conversion parts combined. It was actually pretty slick for a bunch of guys with no money and no conversion experience. We bolted a box to the floor and installed tie downs for the marine deep cycle battery, then integrated a voltmeter and DIN stereo into the box’s side. A car stereo amp and AC inverter were mounted to the box’s side. A hole was drilled into the side of the truck and a 4-pin electrical connector was installed, so an external generator could be used to power the truck’s system during games. Worked great for the 8 years or so we had the truck.
A project like this has always been a dream of mine, and I did get a lot of it out of my system building up the tailgate machine. But- after seeing that DIY site- I wonder if I’d have the guts to start on a brand-new $32,000 vehicle.
That dealership is also fascinating- I wonder how a dealer in a town of 2,000, 70 miles from the nearest airport, grows to be the largest. Would probably make for a great business case study.
Well they advertise everywhere. I used to see their advertisements in the airline magazines as well as in airports around the west. They also advertise heavily in the Seattle market. They used to include up to two airline tickets and a night at one of the local hotels in their deal too. A couple of weeks ago I was in Spokane and they were advertising heavily on the local radio but not to sell you a car. It was a help wanted ad for sales associates, no experience required, money for college and “good benefits” too. I think they were looking for 10–12 employees.
A friend of mine bought his Pickup from them and he said they were a good $2K lower than anyone locally and that included the two plane tickets for him and his wife and a night at a local hotel but that was several years ago.
I think that the greatest part of this new camper is that you are building it yourself. I used to marvel at the different home made campers, cartop sleepers, trailers and boats. You don’t see too much of that stuff anymore. Looking forward to seeing your progress.
Wow, wow, this is tremendously exciting! Why am I so excited, when I’m not going anywhere?
Nevertheless this is so cool, I will echo your comment about RV’s we’ve seen having pseudo-luxury-craptastic interiors, and look forward to an elegant yet functional design using quality materials. Really anticipating the updates once the project gets underway.
Also I see that you went through Coeur d’Alene on your way home. My employer has an office there, I’ve visited offices in several different countries but CdA is one of the few where I thought “Yep, I could live here”. The other one was Sydney Australia. 🙂
Mazal tov! Enjoy it in good health. I’m excited to read stories of the adventures it brings into your life.
Since you mentioned the nasty particleboard in turnkey campers, I do wonder whether it (or a nice plastic) would save significant weight. Probably not, given all of the other stuff that you need to add anyway…?
Particle board is heavier than good plywood or solid wood.
Yep. Heaviest to lightest : Particle board > Plywood > Lumber. The cheaper the heavier, due to the density of the scrap particles and glues holding them together.
I’ve never done any mobile carpentryI but I was thinking the same. It would seem like saving weight should be a priority and particle board is really heavy. Every pound costs money forever when accelerating or driving up a hill. It really shouldn’t be used for anything in an RV. And if it gets water in it it turns into a slow motion sponge and destroys itself. Formica counter tops are on particle board. There must be something better for that purpose. (A custom made stainless counter and integrated sink would be nice, for oh a couple thousand dollars.)
Quarter inch thick birch faced luan ply is really light and strong plus having the birch facing, and with a light frame behind it could be useful for cabinet making, even doors. Actually you could make your own little hollow core doors with eighth inch birch faced luan. Remember a block behind the hinges and handle!
I’m guessing people who have actually done this have a lot of good ideas about construction and materials and everything else.
If weight is big concern you might consider this for some surfaces. http://www.diyroadcasesstore.com/ultra-lite-flite-composite-sheet-3-8-thick-black-only/ They also sell plywood with the ABS pre laminated or the ABS to laminate to your own plywood. A quick durable finish for high wear areas. A friend just bought a bunch of the laminated plywood to build a road case style tool box/storage/work bench unit on casters.
Plus with good plywood you can use a thinner thickness because of its far better structural strength and rigidity than particle board. I have never really liked PB except for underlayment on floor surfaces in non damp areas(not bath or kitchen) and laminate surfaced counter tops. Years of tearing out and replacing damaged PB led me to this conclusion years ago.
Good luck on your project, but I will bet you make a few more revisions before the project is over.
Very interesting affair, looking forward to read about it further.
This Fiat Ducato (I refuse to call it a Dodge, for the same reason a Chrysler 300 isn’t a Lancia Thema) reminded me of my experience with its twin brother, the Peugeot J5- But I’m referring to a 1988 model, and this was way back in 1993.
I was fresh out of my IDF military service, and after having spent some time in the UK, I returned to Israel and joined my brother-in-law’s stages & theater sets’ constriction company. We used to build sets and stages- well, just about anywhere. open air events in the Negev desert, fashion show stages or theater sets; anything that paid us money. And of course, we needed to get the parts to and from the sites. I tell you, nothing swells your arms up more than carrying podiums around…
This J5 was one of the regulars, and we drove it everywhere. It was a truck, had a six persons’ cabin (I used that well when driving home from the workshop, giving lifts to tired soldiers), and was dog slow. I mean it was SLOW. No surprise, as it had the Citroen CX’s 2.5 liter diesel (non-turbo), 75 BHP unit to relay on for hauling the heavy weight. This thing was FWD and had no power-steering. We used to say it did have power steering- the driver’s arms. I distinctly remember my Brother-in-law strained his right arm after driving an entire day.
On a plus; the cabin was very roomy, it had a commanding view over the other road users, and was so big (and in our case, old and battered) it intimidated everybody else from cutting us off or playing dirty as sometimes people do (sadly). It wasn’t a bad truck, just seriously under powered for its size. But if my memory serves, the competition- in Israel, that is- wasn’t any better. And those J5s sold very well indeed.
I don’t have a picture of it, but it looked like this (only in beige):
this guy did a great job
Just viewed it. Nice, for a relatively quick and simple job. I’m actually planning to use the same pine T&G for some/all of the interior too, but finish it with a bees wax/carnauba wax/oil finish Stephanie has mixed up herself; smells great!
I’m going to use foil-faced 1′ rigid insulation board, and my walls won’t be quite so thick and crude as his. He losses sever inches of width with that approach, but it’s simpler and expedient for his purposes.
Thanks for the link.
Congrats on the new RV-to-be! You chose a great platform for your conversion.
As far as the stealth camper video goes, a couple observations:
1) As you mentioned, he wasted quite a bit of wall thickness with his method.
2) Building an RV is not quite the same as carpentry. Not so sure that drywall screws are ideal fasteners for this application.
3) The guy putting the recessed lights in the ceiling made one serious error- NEVER use wire nuts in a vehicle! They are designed to not move once they are installed.
I know you have a much better plan. Good luck!
His use of the silver mylar bubble wrap is interesting. Not much insulating, maybe airflow barrier and reflects radiant energy. Way too much plywood. Way too much pine board stuff. The 2×4’s seem like overkill in most places and half that thickness particularly if glued to some kind of panel like 1/4″ luan would be very strong. You can get pine 1×2 or 2×4 (maybe that’s what he used) and it is far lighter than fir.
My experience is in theater carpentry, so I’m thinking about how what you see looks and forgetting about what’s behind the surface, plus it being able to do the job it has to do. In theater because of moving or flying sets it’s about lightness besides being as cheap as possible. This guy’s van has a lot of thickness of materials that is desirable in a house for a sense of it all being real and solid, but in an RV, like in theater, to me light weight that looks good and works should be the priority. For a house I might be all in for post and beam construction with the structure revealed, but this isn’t a house.
One thing about insulation is reducing the drumming and noise intrusion of those vast metal walls. I’d put additional insulation around the wheel wells to hush the tire noise. Heck, I’d maybe think about spraying undercoat all over the walls and wheel wells first. You used to be able to get it in spray cans. Don’t know if it’s available now and of course weight, but it would greatly damp and reduce noise amplified by those surfaces.
I guess you are going to end up with the kind of heavy plywood floor with some pretty surface on it because people walk there and it’s the base of the rest.
One note: pine is kindling. I’d use it for this purpose, but have an extinguisher and if anything happens just get the hell out.
I’m with this guy: cutting into the roof (or walls) is frightening.
Yes, I didn’t want to be rude, but their approach was a bit crude.
First off, mylar radiant barriers only work with at least 2-3 inches of airspace, otherwise they’re essentially useless. And yes, the construction with 2x4s and all that thick plywood is totally overkill.
If you go to the site with the link to the buildagreenrv site, they did it very much better. He sprayed the walls with foam, but says in retrospect that he’d now do it with 1″ foam panels, with all voids filled with spray foam. And he used 1/4″ panels. IIRC, he’s ony using 1/4″ plywood over foam board for the floor. I was a bit surprised about that, wondering if it might dent. I might go to 3/8″.
Yes, I did a bit of theater construction back in the day, and it’s a good analogy. 1x1s and 1×2 are the most one needs for framing, and 1/4 and 3/8 plywood is more than adequate.
Actually, I do like the 1/4″ pine t&g boards, and have used them in some projects in our house. For now, I’m planning to use them for quite a bit of the interior walls, one reason being that it eliminates having to make templates and cut paneling just perfectly. I’m planning to attach wood stringers to the walls, and then nail on the pine boards directly, without plywood backing, over the insulation. We like the natural look and feel of the pine.
For the walls the thin t&g would be great, much easier than big sheets and better looking in my opinion.
The narrow crown stapler is great for making plywood boxes. I’ve made a huge number of “road cases” for shipping equipment and good wood glue for some incredibly strong joints even w/o the aluminum angle which is mainly just armor to keep the corners from getting bashed up and splintering.
More of the same: I don’t know why he put more pine boards on the ceiling over the birch faced quarter inch luan. A lot of weight just for aesthetics. I think aestheticswise it would be better to think of the RV like an efficient ship cabin than a cabin cabin. Nice birch flat planes are as nice as the rustic cabin look if you do it right, at least to me. You could add a few Frank Lloyd Wrightesque appliques if you want.
Again from theater carpentry, for a lot of purposes the compressed air tool staple gun (maybe it was a nail gun but for most purposes like this the staple version is the right choice) they used is a huge time and clamping etc. saver. It’s how crappy cheap furniture is stuck together, those long staples with just a short bridge between the prongs, the opposite of regular paper or staple gun staples. I built a bunch of bookcases and cabinets and coffee and end tables for myself using this technology when I worked in a theater shop. Not for purists, but a fantastic time and work saver.
I would like to point out that I wasn’t shooting staples into particle board like often is the case with that cheap furniture. Once things are banged together it’s really the wood glue that is holding things together.
Looking forward to the update posts as this project moves along.
I’m in the process of restoring my 1973 29′ Travelux aluminum trailer. It’s similar to appearance to an Airstream, only made in Canada.
I have always loved Airstreams, but the cost of entry is too high for me. As the wife and I own a couple of vintage campers, I decided to take on the task of a full restoration.
It’s currently gutted down to the bare frame and outer shell. I will be removing the aluminum full length belly pan in the coming weeks as time permits. After that, it should be relatively simple to lift the body from the frame (with the help of a half dozen or so friends). They are built surprisingly strong and light. After that, I can repair and repaint the frame.
From there, it’s a matter of rebuilding the inside. I have saved as much of the original interior as I could to be reused, or used as templates for repairing any water damage or rot. I have photo-documented everything so far, so hopefully it will not be too bad.
I’m also a fan of light weight trailers and have little need for the luxury features of modern trailers. We do own a modern 18′ one, but its only luxuries are A/C and a radio that I installed myself. It only weighs 500 lbs more dry than my friend’s tent trailer.
Good luck from someone who’s facing the same process. 🙂
Many years ago, I was at a weekend racing event at Summit Point WV, and a dealer had one of those $230k greyhound bus-size mega-motorhomes on display there.
I asked why the cabinets were fake-wood covered, and he had some excuse about not being able to get decent craftsmen or woodworkers anymore.
By the way, particleboard is generally HEAVIER than plywood, or even solid wood.
If you have to use it in a $230k motorhome, there ought to be real wood veneer on it!
Happy Motoring, Mark
Quite true about it being heavier. And with good quality plywood, one can use a thinner size.
Any, that’s BS about the reason for not using real wood; one can get solid wood cabinet doors quite reasonably these days. IKEA doors are all solid wood. They’re made mostly by machines anyway.
Fantastic and exciting project. Something I would like to tackle at some point as well. It sounds like you have a very reasonable partner in this as well which is likely a key success point. Best of luck and looking forward to the updates.
Good luck. By the way, the Sprinter is a touch over 80″ wide, 95.5″ at the mirrors. I have no idea where that 74″ thing comes from, but a lot of people quote it.
True. The key thing is that the Promaster is 4″ wider on the inside.
That is extremely impressive. I can see modern day reliability and power as being winners especially for long distance trips into remote areas. 1977 was not one of your better years for cars and the fact that yours has lasted that long is a testament to your mechanic abilities.
I am hugely looking forward to the build progress. I have no idea if this is possible but it would be fun to attach small snaps over the cabin so you could cover the entire interior in blue velour and shag carpet like a sin bin van and remove when you needed to be tasteful and the joke is over.
With the remodeling skills you’ve made working on houses, building your own camper (rather than trying to resurrect a perpetually dying one) makes a lot of sense. Best of luck on the conversion – can’t wait too see how it all comes out.
This is great!
I think about this stuff all the time, filing away for the future, every once in a while getting on to a CAD program and working something out. It’s fun to think up solutions to space problems that fit your proportions, not everybody’s. And, as you point out…the fit and finish of factory RVs is seriously lacking.
My dream is to cram everything 2 people need into something really small. REALLY small. Like a Transit Connect…but the lack of stand-up head height would probably make it unliveable.
Congrats on getting this. I don’t doubt the performance will be more than adequate even once you kit it out – I’m often being overtaken by them doing 140-150 Km/H on the Autobahn and “ours” only have 177 hp in the most powerful version of the 2.3 diesel (no gasoline option here).
The design of the living quarters makes perfect sense to me.
Most impressive, and congratulations! While giving up an old friend is hard, there’s something refreshing about having a clean slate to start from. Will look forward to build reports, followed by excursion reports. We never graduated beyond tent camping, and come to think of it, my wife’s been giving indication it’s time to plan a trip soon.
Congratulations Paul, and all the best with the motorhome conversion. Looking forward to read and see more of the whole process and the end result !
Looking forward to seeing the finished result. You’re right, the manufactured stuff is built so cheaply, regardless of price.
I used to be wary of Chryslers too. But I’m now on my second minivan and have no serious complaints considering the price. Our current one is 5 years old now and hasn’t needed a thing but regular maintenance.
Congrats on your purchase and upcoming project! Comments on the state of fit and finish in the line built mo-ho’s and the like always make me laugh. Any motorhome or trailer from any North American builder always used identical colours, fabrics, cabinetry and finishes that only seemed to vary in minor degrees. They went thru the dusty rose era, the sea foam era, the woodsy era ( early on ) etc. Its like they all used the same design house, run by some faceless cabal who’s brother had the supply contract for all the materials and bits. Same goes for the crap electrical, plumbing and trim pieces. As a former owner of a 38′ pusher, there are some evil forces at work to make them all look like cheap and tacky Vegas casinos inside, with the most appalling lack of space utilisation and unusable cabinetry. I do like the euro conversions as they seem better, although they dont come cheap. Looking forward to seeing how the conversion goes!
Nice rig Paul with your carpentry skills it should be a doddle to build, just an idea for you reguarding your on board shower a mate of mine had a heat exchanger set up on his F150 ambulance that worked fine a bucket of water river, lake, tank, a 12volt submersible pump to push it through the exchanger coil in the radiator and a shower rose on a hose so he had a hot shower where ever he stopped, that ex ambulance was set up for outback Aussie travel and self contained plus it still had the dual alternators and AC systems aboard from its medical career dual LPG tanks solved the running costs LPG was cheap in OZ. Happy camping.
Also very interested to see the finished product. It ought to be very gratifying, and starting with a fresh new vehicle is the cleanest slate possible. Looking forward to build updates!
Good luck with the Promaster. In a Car and Driver comparison a few years back with a Mercedes Sprinter and Ford Transit Connect, the Promaster soundly came up dead last. Although they were all the diesel powered versions, the issues (poor ergonomics and a transmission slow to decide what gear to choose) with the Promaster would seem to have applied to the gas-powered versions, too. The Transit Connect was the winner.
Personally, I’m hoping for the pop-top, Euro-camper version of the Mercedes Metris to eventually make it to the state.
The Diesel Promaster uses an automated manual trans while the gas powered versions use a conventional torque converter automatic so that wouldn’t apply to gas versions.
The diesel transmission was a major source of the Promaster’s issues in the test so, hopefully, the gas transmission wouldn’t be nearly as aggravating (or even outright dangerous).
No reason that the gas trans should act or feel anything like the diesel unit. Driving an automated manual is way different and isn’t dangerous as long as you know what/how it is going to work. I got an International Hybrid rental truck one time. When I went to pull out on the street the first time it did freak me out as it was just like you would expect a big truck manual trans to shift. So as I hit the two way turn lane the computer lifted the throttle, operated the clutch, and took what seemed like a long time for it to make it to the next gear and let out the clutch. Once I went oh yea Automated manual I realized what was happening and stopped freaking out. The one problem is pulling up to a dock as during the slow creep you could feel it working the clutch on and off.
Too bad the under-bite can’t be remedied.
It will be fun and interesting following your progress. I do hope that this does not turn into “the project that never ends”. I have a few of those going!
RE: Front Wheel Drive. I did not know heavy duty was available. I think there would be a market for FWD pickups because the pickup bed could be so much lower improving both ergonomics and stability.
Happy Motoring!
Wow is all I can say. Awesome! I thought I had it bad with my teardrop trailer obsession. I push it out of my head for a while with rational thought but it creeps back in. I have no patience for cabinet making or fine craftsmanship so insane practicality, simplicity and keeping it small are key points. Something to pull behind the longroof. The longroof has lots of space for a tent and gear. Oh the inner torment.
Reading this has triggered it again. Must… resist…
Again. Awesome!
Nice project. I had fun building a tear drop trailer a few years back. It took me about 3 weeks, I found an old tent trailer for a case of beer that I used for the running gear. I had to replace one hub and gave it a paint job. I used a fancy exterior plywood coated in marine epoxy and finish to give it the woody look. And used Baltic birch for the interior to brighten it up with 1 inch foam for insulation. It weighed nothing which was good for the old vanagon tow vehicle. I really enjoyed equipping it the way I wanted complete with a deep cycle battery lights and an inverter. All in the cost was about $1200 CDN.
Good Luck!
Looking forward to reading about your project. My wife and I are considering getting a smaller motor home and dong some travelling when we retire, and I’ll certainly follow your experiences. The Promaster sounds like a great vehicle to use as a base.
I travel the country and use a truck camper (just rolled 100k). I must say NOT using the side door is brilliant and opens up the design. The rear entry is the same as a truck camper. I’m stealing your idea.
Best Regards and look forward to the build.
Low-floor FWD ProMaster is the 21st century version of the Toronado UPP driven GMC motorhome.
The propane tank housing could be under the fixed part of the passenger-side bed. That way the tank housing could be completely sealed to the interior of the van, with tank access provided by opening the sliding side door.
One more idea: By re-routing the sliding door weather seal around the tank housing opening (to the top and forward edges of the rectangular opening against the side door), the tank housing effectively becomes part of the exterior. The “vent to exterior” is accomplished through the lower rear edge of the door-to-body gap, without drilling any hole in the van body.
Congratulations, Paul! I’m really excited to follow this build. It’s something I hope to find the time and money for one day.
This sounds like a great project, if you have the time and ability to complete it.
The choice of the FWD van with the lower floor makes perfect sense, and it sounds like you’ve thorough in picking the variant that makes the most sense.
Was white a deliberate choice for temperature control in the sunny south west, and will you be adding a bulkhead behind the existing cabs, and/or changing them to flexible captain’s chair?
The overwhelming majority in stock are white. I kind of wanted one with some color, but, yes, it will be cooler in white.
No bulkheads. Possibly adding swivels to the seats, but probably not. We tend to just sit on the two opposing beds, which are like couches in the daytime. More comfortable.
Torn between following your progress on this or pretending it’s not happening. This could trigger my long dormant campervan virus to manifest, and we don’t want that.
Looks like a great choice for the build.
I was a bit lukewarm when I started reading this – why put all that work into converting a Fiat – but by the end I was won-over. Where I live I see a lot of tourists in camper vans during the summer, from many parts of Europe, and now I understand why most of the newer ones are based on this Fiat/Peugeot model.
The Fiat Ducato is the Numero Uno motorhome chassis in Europe. By a wide margin, that is.
I’m so very jealous. Looking forward to many updates including build pix and video.
Very nice. Love campers and camping. I keep thinking building your own is the way to go. Unlike cars and boats, even high-end campers seem to cut too many corners.
Look up Handy Bob solar for good info on camper electrical, he is a bit out of date on the MPPT vs PWM solar controllers but other then that his advice is solid.
For batteries two 6-volt golf cart batteries are usually your best bang for your buck. If your going with one battery and charging with alt and solar I would look at AGM or Carbon foam (firefly) battery pricey but nice. You can read more about batteries here
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/deep_cycle_battery
My day job involves electrical equipment for boats and RV’s so if you have questions let me know.
3 commonly found pieces of equipment on commercial RVs can be tossed right away in a DIY:
1) Flat screen TVs (plus other elaborate “infotainment”)
2) Powered side awning
3) Roof top A/C … One possible innovation is adding a folding partition or curtain right behind the driver to reduce the load on the factory engine-driven A/C during the day.
Nice start to make a great RV. I have build two myself back in the 80’s, both based on a Bedford Cf van, so much smaller then yours. We didn’t had solar power then or fancy toilets, but they brought me and a friend all over Europe, and even as far as Israel, Jordan and Syria. Would not dare that these days……
When we retire we want to get a big RV, and stay in it all winter when Europe is to cold for my San Diego born wife…….
Will follow your build for sure!
What a great project. I am sure your RV will be much better than what’s on the market. I agree much of what’s there seems to be form over function. I am looking forward to following your progress.
Keep it simple.
For plumbing I use 1.5, 2.5 or 6 gallon plastic water containers (available at Walmart) that I place on a shelf built six inches higher and slightly overhanging the sink. You can equip these with regular faucets. Then I put a bucket under the sink and empty in timely fashion. (In very hot weather add a few drops of bleach to the bucket). This uses gravity for pressure and avoids an electric pump. The containers are small enough to make refilling easy. Spigots are everywhere. (Carry a faucet key). Plus it removes a lot of weight versus having a large plumbed-in water tank always on board.
For the shower I use an Ivation rechargeable battery powered unit (Amazon). This consists of a sealed pump and battery that is put into a bucket or stockpot of heated water in your shower stall. A six foot hose and shower head are part of the unit. You turn it on, wet down and then stick the shower head back into the bucket to recirculate. Wash up, then shower off. You can get decently clean with 6 qts of water, or a complete wash with 10. The beauty of it is that the entire recirculation fits in the palm of your hand instead of inside the walls. Each recharge (110 or 12v) is good for about six showers. Heat your stock pot on the cook top for a warm shower (4-5 min). Likewise, heat a teakettle on your cooktop for a final rinse of your dishes.
If you use these methods, you avoid the cost and the problems associated with built-in plumbing pipes and water heaters.
Instead of building fancy wooden cabinets for your storage needs, purchase appropriately sized plastic units at Walmart. They have the advantage of being very light weight (to improve gas mileage) and of excluding bugs and cockroaches, two things that those fancy wooden works of art generally fail at.
Keep rugs/carpets, soft materials to a minimum to avoid mold, dust, allergens, etc. and for easier cleanup. Likewise, devise a method to keep windows slightly open at all times. Allows for ventilation, reduces condensation and mold. Fantastic brand roof vent fans are one of the few US-made RV components that I can recommend. (Most RV components are crap). They are decent quality and can eliminate the need for AC if you have good roof insulation and keep to the shade.
Use full size sinks and shower stalls and install plenty of counter and work space. Commercial units skimp on these, rendering most smaller RVs fit only for glorified sleeping quarters or uncomfortable places to watch TV.
Congratulations Paul and looking forward to updates. I considered one of the Euro-style vans for my travel vehicle albeit with different goals, but settled on a pickup. I recently drove a rental, barebones Promaster with about 50k miles, for a few days; I liked the cargo space and shape, disliked the side slider, loved the comfortable seating and driving position. Power train was quite good, but the handling in a short set of twisties with worn-feeling front shocks and stiff rear springs was not enjoyable. I also really missed the rear view camera that my pickup has. If you’re not familiar with it, check the forums on expeditionportal.com for some good van buildup tips. Friends don’t let friends use particle board.
Here I am congratulating Ed on his SS and I completely forget to congratulate you on your purchase! I know your old van had plenty of character but now you have something much safer, more fuel-efficient and you’ll be able to really make your mark and modify it to your tastes. This will be very exciting!
I imagined you would be more inclined to get a diesel Transit but I think you’ve made a compelling argument for the ProMaster.
Driving.ca published a review of the Promaster 1500 today, and it’s clear they were impressed. I wasn’t aware that it was a Fiat design. Nice to know that Fiat can design a vehicle that works well in the North American market. Canadian prices reflect a 73 cent exchange rate.
http://driving.ca/ram/cargo-van-ram/reviews/road-test/van-reviuew-2017-dodge-promaster-1500
I know this is an old thread, but the difference in MPG is probably due to the buildagreenrv 1500 Transit had a 3.16 axle ratio vs. the 3.86 ratio Paul’s van is equipped with.
http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35202
Congrats on the Pro Master purchase. I’m awaiting delivery of mine. (159 wb 2500) We also looked at the Travato. We will loosely base ours on their floor plan. I salvaged the sofa bed and 2 captains chair from our ’88 Ford van to reuse. Weight is a consideration so I’ll be building my own cabinetry and using IKEA glossy doors. I’ll be using 1×2 boards for framing with thin birch or luan board on both sides and Styrofoam boards sandwiched in between for extra rigidity. Counter tops are still up in the air but may use thin Corian. Looking forward to this and maybe my last and best van conversion. I’ve built two Econoline “sin bins” already and current drive a customized Toyota Sienna with the same mandatory sin, bar, icebox, table combination. The Sienna is more of a show van but we can sleep uncomfortably in it if need be. It also has a proto type battery/inverter system. I’ll be building a larger version of it for the Pro Master. We’ve been vanning since 1975 and this new generation of vans is exciting. A few are starting to show up at van festivals. Most are being outfitted as campers instead of custom vans as in the past. Ours will also serve as camper but built as a custom van like the old days. The only difference is there will be no shag carpeting, 8 tracks and disco ball. Our interior will be a clean, modern European look, reflecting the van’s Italian roots. I guess a trip to IKEA and other modern European accessory stores for accessories will be in order.
Excellent and just as I start our build out of our 2018 2500 promaster “silver streak” stealth camper this will have a kitchen window rear of the sliding door a raised rear queen bed, all systems will be located underneath the bed. Solar system, water system and storage using costco storage bins.Installing passenger swivel seat only . Will have plumbing for galley a sunken galley range and a stainless sink and faucet. I have two Maxxair fans to be placed one over the galley area and one over the bed both have remotes and are 10 speed fans. Will have shore power connections as well as water connection plus of course a natures head composting toilet. Looking for recommendations for good led lighting small spotlights with alloy or chrome bezel all I seem to find is cheap plastic ones. Anyways look up Jaz morton van build http://www.jazmorton.com/van-conversion/ an Aussie doing a great build out on his van plus look up wranglerstar he has some great info both on u tube. Happy trails
As an update started the build and installed rattletrap sound deadening throughout and the passenger swivel seat. Next is to cut the roof holes for the two maxxair fans. Still having problems locating led lighting and switches/ panels . I had worked out the system install for the solar system until I started reading some posts on the renogy website so will keep you updated on that . Seems they offer solar kits that are excellent.
Both maxxair fans are installed and watertight bought a couple of adapters for the fans that follow the contours of the roof and are put onto the roof using 3M window weld then 24 hours later install the fan to the adapter plate using butyl tape followed by Dicor self levelling sealant ensure the holes you drill go through the metal roof. Installed the polyiso insulation in the walls upto the area I’m using for electrical runs . My water system will be run in the lower part of the walls behind the plastic covers. Still looking at the renogy 400w system 4x100w panels will fit on the roof however renogy do not sell a tilt kit for the 100w panels however amazon does around $40 a piece so plan on doing that shortly will use the corner brackets to install on the roof not the z brackets that require drilling through the roof . While on the roof I noticed what looks like small fixing points look like small T shapes on the gutter edge they could be used to affix a roof rack system of sorts …anyone know what they are? Still looking for good LED lighting and switches .I did buy an Auto Charging relay from bluesea systems to charge the house batteries when vehicle is running. So with solar , ACR and shore power available we should be ok. Next order will be for a propex heater so we should never be cold in the silver streak excellent piece of kit when installed all thermostatically controlled . Happy trails
Test fitting roof panels and painted them white , got the countertp today for the kitchen cabinets. Gotta pull the trigger on the renogy solar system now going to be a 300w solar system with lithium battery with a 40A rover MPPT controller as that can be programmed for lithium batteries. Got the rear bed 90% built want to install the flooring so I can finalize the bolting down of everything. Bought the 63 quart ARB fridge its ding trials now in the garage . My propex heater arrived just got to drill two holes in the van for intake air and exhaust vent. This will be located in the front area of the van. We had CRL windows installed one fIxed in the sliding door and the other installed facing it with two manually opening windows in the lower third of the window. The bullbar arrived from romania and is now installed and complements the chrome accent grill perfectly. Ordered an airhead composting toilet that looks to cover our needs. Decided on a portable outdoor shower than can attach to the rear door iits a tankless water heater that uses a propane supply and looks to be excellent. This will be used on occasion where we have no access to gym or truck stop showers. Best tool for building the van is a RIVNUT tool buy one and use 5/16 -18 rivnuts and bolts to attach anything to the van. Received our 21 gallon water tank which I’m undecided to return it or use it in the build. 21 gallons of water is 210lbs being lugged around full.Lets see if anyone reads this
I’ve been following your updates.
I’m getting real close to serious building on mine, finally. I’ve put in windows; Euro-style (Seitz-type), and I have a lot of components in the garage. I’m just finishing up another project. Once I get going I’ll do some updates.
Fun YouTube channel of a guy undertaking his first van conversion project.
https://youtu.be/LdcqG-tIAWI
Love this van, the same design and mechanichs as the Fiat Ducato/Peugeot Boxer/Citroen Relay.
Really good job from FCA.