I think it’s safe to say that the resale value of most Volkswagens of the past decade or so is falling fast, whether they are affected by the scandal or not. So naturally it’s a perfect time to pick an unaffected car on the cheap. And since we’re at it, why not one that had already depreciated like a rock anyway.
The Volkswagen Phaeton represents Ferdinand Piech’s ultimate act of waving VAG’s engineering prowess around (until the Bugatti Veyron came along at least) A Volkswagen for the finest Volks around and built at great expense around a set of requirements that at the time were thought impossible. The result was a brilliantly engineered car that was far too expensive for people that were in the market for something with a Volkswagen badge. Especially when next door you could get an Audi A8 to satisfy badge snobbery for around the same price.
With less than 1000 Phaetons sold in 2005 VW decided that it wasn’t on their business interest keeping it on the showrooms in America. In Europe however it got a couple more facelifts and it’s still being sold. Apparently the Chinese market has also taken a fondness to it. Development of a Second generation which would bring the model back to America were rumored a few weeks before the whole company became engulfed in the Diesel emissions scandal. Time will tell if the project will continue or their newfound legal expenses and management puts a halt on any non-critical projects for the time being.
And if the Phaeton does come back it will have to fight against its reputation for reliability that is questionable at best. Something that has been said about most vehicles wearing the people’s car badge in the last couple of decades. It was the combination of this and their badge that made Phaetons lose their value quicker than a property at Centralia. Of course, there are some owners that swear by them and insist that they just need to be treated with a lot of care and you’ll be rewarded with a superb car. Our featured model’s owner hasn’t been doing that “care” bit all that well. We’ll get to that in a bit.
Our featured model is a 2004 Phaeton, 1 in 1,433 sold that year, finished in Silver with a black interior. Power is provided by a 4.2-liter V8 developing 335 horsepower and mated to a six speed Tiptronic automatic gearbox. The combination is good for 0-60 in 6.5 seconds and for a top speed of 155. The odometer is showing (allegedly) showing 88,752 miles. For your money you get sumptuous leather seats, a sunroof, a four-zone climatronic system (draftless) and the sense that a lot of people were racking their brains long and hard to come up with clever engineering solutions. The price for this almost-Bentley? $11,900.
Faults? Well, eagle-eyed readers will have already noticed the rear driver-side is missing some chrome trim and the wheel is missing its VW crest. It also seems that the previous owners were rather enthusiastic with the buttons and knobs on the overhead console and they look very worse for wear. Would you be one of those lucky owners that have struck gold with their Phaetons? The listing is here. In any case, if you want to buy a Phaeton remember: ist nicht ein Passat
Nein, nein I say! After my one and only bad experience owning a Jetta and the terrible, arrogant dealer service, I won’t go near the VW brand ever again.
As a side note, the local VW dealer has been in darkness for more than a week now, and the “Open” sign is not lit. Have driven past it a number of times and there appears to be no activity there at all. Is this happening at your local VW dealer too?
I Bought a new Golf on a Friday exactly one week before Dieselgate became public (what timing) and had to go in to the dealer the Friday after the fact to pick up my plates. Honestly the dealership seemed busier the time I went in after the start of dieselgate so I’m not sure what that means.
Perhaps it has something to do with this being a dealer in Minneapolis which is currently seeing an influx of yuppies (including myself) which seems to be one of VWs biggest target markets. I grew up near Milwaukee which while having more German descended people has far fewer Volkswagens.
Yuppies…i.e. future disgruntled VW customers who will go Japanese/Korean next time. And stay there.
Luther West Side Volkswagen? If so, my experiences with them were less than pleasant to say the least…
I’ve driven by five or six different VW dealers in the past week, all between St Louis and Merrillville, Indiana east of Chicago. All were open and all had new cars on the front line.
Incidentally. I read two days ago that VW sales increased in September over September 2014.
I believe that increase was solely due to Labor day weekend being in September rather than August this year.
Service training
I was always intrigued with this fat Passat.
Many questions arise ,about this car:
What was the logic behind this car?
What market segment was it aimed for ?
What type of car buyer opted for this car? income, age, social class?
Was this car produced to boost VW image ?
Why VW did not call it Horsch and did not go head to head with Maybach and Bentley?
How much VW lost on this?
Who styled this calamity ?
Is Ferdinand Piech regretting this whole project?
I am sure some curbsiders have the adequate answers to these questions.
I remember reading a review of this car that essentially said “It’s hard to understand the question, the answer to which was an $80,000 Volkswagen.” A great demonstration of engineering prowess, to be sure (I think it even got its own custom-built factory), but not the best corporate decision. I think I’ve seen three of these on the road, ever, including one W12 version, and only remember ever seeing one TV ad for it, once.
That’s basically Lexus money for VW problems, just for the sake of ego (Piech’s and the buyer’s).
The fact that VW’s supervisor board allowed Piech to go ahead with ridiculous vanity projects like this and Bugatti speaks volumes as to how poorly the company is run.
Oh yes. Lets sell the peoples car VW for more than the price of the luxo Audi and will build a Bugatti and sell each one for a Million Euros .Les than what it cost to build. I read in the Canadian Lemon Guide back in 98 that German makes were getting complacent…..
The car mis-conceived as a VW. It should have been an Audi.
And no, Ferdinand Piech doesn’t do regret. From his perspective, the people who did not buy these are the dummies.
–I will again predict that dieselgate will eventually be found to have been born on Piech’s desk.
Ah, a Centralia reference! Where are you from, Gerardo? I grew up 20 miles from Centralia.
Odd, this is the second reference I’ve seen to Centralia, PA in as many days. I can’t remember where I read it yesterday.
I read an article about an underground landfill fire that mentioned the Centralia coal fire. Might be the same one you read.
In any case it’s an excellent metaphor. VW’s bad quality has been smoldering for many decades, felt by owners but never popping through into the media. Until now.
The aircooled VWs were fragile deathtraps, but at least their interiors held up better than this one. I drove and fixed a bunch of them and never saw this kind of damage from ordinary use.
That was it! An underground fire at a landfill that’s been burning since 2010, and is located next to another landfill that contains nuclear waste that was dumped there illegally in the 1970s.
“An underground fire at a landfill that’s been burning since 2010, and is located next to another landfill that contains nuclear waste”
That’s not the Centralia fire; that’s a different landfill fire near St. Louis. You may have read an article about the St. Louis-area fire which made a reference to the Centralia fire.
The Centralia fire is in Pennsylvania, and has been burning since at least 1962. The default theory is that the intentional burning of trash at a landfill set an underground coal seam on fire, although no one is really sure; some think the fire may have actually been burning underground earlier than 1962. In any event, the fire spread to numerous coal seams and mines around the town (technically, “borough”) of Centralia, leading the town to be essentially abandoned in the ’80s. In the 1980 U.S. Census, Centraliia’s population was recorded as over 1000; in 2010, it was ten.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
My wife grew up in the next town over on rt. 61. We now live in Tamaqua. We drove through there a few times, it’s weird seeing all the left over curbage without any houses. I remember seeing the film “Made In America” with Chris Penn, the opening scenes were shot in Centralia when there were still houses.
Looks like a dog or other animal attacked the overhead console
I remember seeing a VW Phaeton in person. While I did find it attractive, I found it looked too upscale for what was originally a cheap, reliable, durable, go most places “People’s Car.” Unfortunately, that seems to be what has happened to Volkswagen, it has become so upscale, it’s almost up there with Mercedes-Benz. What’s wrong with this picture?
I have seen exactly one Phaeton: in line at the drive up window at Wendy’s.
More of Piech’s empire building. I had read reports that one of the points of friction between Piech and Winterkorn was Piech’s determination to have another go with the Phaeton in the US.
Speaking of Winterkorn. I read an article this morning about the diesel thing that, after Piech had pushed out the preceding head of VW and the engineer that had licensed diesel technology from Mercedes, Winterkorn moved from Audi, with his two favorite engineers, the guys who developed the engine at the center of the scandal while at Audi with Winterkorn, and who are being given credit for the defeat system.
I find it implausible that Winterkorn did not know about the defeat system from the engine’s development years ago, given the relationship he had with the two engineers.
This all reads very much like a lot of US companies that fall:office politics, empire building, hubris and the Not Invented Here syndrome that favors an in house solution over a solution from an outside source, even if the in house solution is inferior.
Maybe the owner had to eat at Wendy’s to afford the Phaeton!
These have always intrigued me. Not to possibly own, but just the concept of anyone owning one. I look at the Hyundai Equus the same way. Neither Cadillac, Lincoln or even Chrysler will attempt a car in this rarefied bracket. But VW and Hyundai give it a go. I am curious, has the Equus sold any better?
Not much: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/hyundai-equus-sales-figures.html
The difference between the Equus and the Phaeton is that the Equus is a)as reliable as any other Hyundai, which these days means “pretty dang reliable” and b)is treated almost as a sub-brand within Hyundai. You never have to set foot within a dealership after the initial purchase, they’ll come to you for warranty or scheduled service, pick the car up and leave you a Genesis loaner.
A friend’s father owns one. He was intrigued by the concept, leased one in 2012, and when the lease was up, he ended up buying a new 2015. Especially impressive considering he almost never buys the same car twice in a row (before the Equus, his two previous cars were a G37S and a C6 ‘Vette.)
One other thing the Equus shares with the Phaeton is rapid depreciation. Look online for 2014’s, even with only four digit mileage. I was really, really tempted by the pricing of year-old Equui; I have said for a while that the Equus is the modern Fleetwood Brougham that GM refuses to build. But then my girlfriend pointed out that they are rated at only 15 MPG, which makes them kinda thirsty as daily drivers. That is worse than my 2005 Town Car. I know it’s a big car with a V8, but then so is my TC with much older technology. Seems like Hyundai could have done better
The difference between the Equus and Phaeton in my opinion at least is that the Phaeton was actually more or less a budget A8, meaning it had some performance aspirations. The Equus and similar Kia K9 are more like Korean Lincoln Town Cars, in the sense that handling is sacrificed for comfort.
Hey I wouldn’t kick a CPO Genesis R sedan out of bed for eating crackers.
That would also take care of anyone worried about handling.
Just last night I heard a network news announcer describe VW as a brand known for, among other things, it’s reliability. I wonder how many repeat buyers VW’s reliability has gotten it. While I did happen to see a late 80s 2 door Jetta diesel yesterday, finding a water-cooled VW product in my area that is older than a 2002 is next to impossible.
I think I’ve seen 2 of these Phaetons, though not since leaving Memphis 5 years ago (Memphis has/had a lot of “early adopters” among it’s car buying pool). This car isn’t even all that popular in Europe.
BTW: here is CAR magazines GBU “analysis”:
“Bentley Continental disguised as a Passat. Decent car with wrong badge and terrifying residuals.”
IF, if, I wanted to throw away a lot of money on a super-expensive VW car, I’d buy a CC loooong before this bloated Passat.
Network news announcers sometimes display an astounding lack of acquaintance with in-depth knowledge of the issues they cover, automotive issues being among those topics. They may remember VW reliability from the ’72 Beetle they had in college, but they haven’t had to spend ten minutes in the past 15 years taking a car in for service, if they drive at all.
“…Network news announcers sometimes display an astounding lack of acquaintance with in-depth knowledge of the issues they cover…”
Only SOMETIMES?
I saw one of this in Hazel Park, Mi with a small patch of duct tape quietly pretends being Passat on the street.
“One Volkswagen for the price of three.”
not worth it – overpriced for its condition and missing some desirable options
at this price you should be able to find one with
a) the extra wood package (PNH)
b) the rear console package (4 seater package)
c) V12 (I think was still available)
d)the heliochrome paint option
see extra wood edition below (note for the woodtrim – the woodtrim for phaetons were specially made as all the wood trim came from the same tree – meaning repairing/replacing the woodtrim on a phaeton is exceedingly difficult – I assume if the plastic trim on this car is damaged so is the trim)
Yeah, but if you go for the V12 aren’t you looking at maintenance costs usually associated only with machinery that speaks Italian?
Would you be looking at that either way? I’ve always assumed that these would be as expensive to run as other used luxury cars (i.e., “very”).
yes….but I say go all the way
pic of rear console option
You should also note that this cars cup holders appear to be broken – these are also a bit pricey to repair (who knows what else is wrong with this car)….its just not worth it- find one with some nice options
Lincman,
I think you meant W12?
In the U.K. these are sold (exclusively?) with a 3 liter TDI engine. The price is the equivalent of about $85,000. I can’t imagine what a W12 model would sell for.
yes sorry the W12
here is a pic of a window sticker – US price (note this one does not appear to have the ‘tech’ package which included nifty features like an powered closing trunk)…..yes I know GM’s have done this for years
$118,115 USD
Where’d the extra $10 K come from? The sticker price was $108,115.00.
my fault – typing error on my part – yes $ 108,118
Seems fairly cheap, but cheap Audis abound here so thats not a surprise, dead Audis are quite a common feature on lawns too, I’ll pass.
My first thought on the Silvercar article a couple days ago was “would be nice to rent a new Audi for a day or two and revel in how maintaining it is Somebody Else’s Problem”.
The Phaeton doesn’t have a V-8, at least according to VW. They call it a ‘W-8’ due to the interlaced configuration of the cylinders in each of the two banks.
I’ve had a first-half-year 2001 VW Passat since 2003. Reliable? Well, it’s still going, I guess. Really expensive to fix? yes. It’s all labor. Or, more frustratingly, It’s the universal deistribution of cheap $10 parts buried underneath enough screws, hoses and clamps that 7-10 hours of labor is always required to get to it. But, I guess that’s just classic German engineering. The original Beetle was the singular, and unusual, example of straightforward engineering to come out of that country.
To quibble a bit, since Ferdinend Porsche was Austrian, I don’t think the Beetle should be called a German design. It was only developed under German sponsorship (due to Hitler, another Austrian), displacing the very similar Tatra, which was likewise designed by an Austrian, Ledwinka.
VW’s eternal reputation for unreliability, long-term money pit status and terrible dealer service is what made me walk next door and chose a Nissan two weeks ago. Hyundai has a better rep than VW. Yes, the Golf rode great, was powerful for the size of the motor and was rather nicely appointed, but that means little when you’re arguing with the dealer over covering an obvious warranty claim or paying to fix a mechanical woe yet again. They were the same way with my family’s Rabbit L in 1980. Their entire culture needs to be revamped. I was willing to give them a chance if the sale experience had changed and they blew it badly.
They listened to me not a bit when I told them what my hard limit was on what I’d pay and proposed something $100 a month higher and wouldn’t budge. I had alternatives, wasn’t in love with the car and didn’t have to trade today. I don’t know why they treated me as if I was desperate to buy from them.
had two VWs…felt nicer to drive than all the other modern FWD econoboxes, but yes, I agree, ridiculous pricing on parts and labor and odd quirky brand specific engineering (why do you have to pull the box off rubber grommets that need to be lubed and take out four Phillips screws just to replace an air filter? ) put me off them for good. It’s not a Porsche or Ferrari, gentlemen, it’s a normal car.
Last week on Route 95 in southern Massachusetts a Phaeton sped past my wife and I probably doing well over 100 mph. She knows a lot about cars and the different makes and models. So when she said “Look at that idiot in the Passat”, I told her that it wasn’t a Passat, that it was a rare Volkswagen called a Phaeton and that it sold for around $80k back in 2005. She didn’t believe me and had to look online to verify that I wasn’t crazy. Sure enough she found it online and couldn’t believe it actually existed.
Having owned a 1998 Passat for about a year and it being serviced for most of the time I owned it, I will never own another VW product.
Cars like these have always and will always depreciate like yesterday’s newspaper.
You’re much better off buying a 2-3 year old example for 30-50% of list, and by then you might as well buy an A8 anyway. The 7 series, S class or Jag XJ have the same financial issue and opportunity, are better looking, arguably better to drive and better badges. This just shouts airport limousine.
Only buyers I can think of would be the owners of successful VW franchises.
I’d have the Audi too. The depreciation is steep, so you get a good bargain. The Phaeton had so much more technology in it that makes it more complex. I’ll just have an A6….
I’m not sure , but it always seemed to me that the Phaeton was basically a Touareg for people who want a traditional sedan and not an SUV… maybe because they are (were) offered with similar choice of engines (at least here in the EU) and the interior (steering wheel, dashboard, center console) are quite similar, if not identical.
And I’m somewhat surprised at all the complaints about the VW reliability – maybe I’m just lucky, but I bought a new 2007 Golf 1.9 TDI, had it for 6 years and never had an issue – except for two(!) failed factory car radios (first one replaced under warranty, and when the second one failed, I found a used replacement for 100 EUR). Otherwise, absolutely trouble-free, never a hint of mechanical problems…
My wife bought a 2010 VW Touran 1.4 TSI with DSG. I’m not happy that one of the twin clutches needed replacement (again under warranty) quite early, at 18.000km (11.000 miles), apparently the original design was faulty, the new part is supposed to be improved version. Other than that, everything works perfectly (knock on wood).
Apparently, US models suffer from shitty(-er) build quality, compared to EU models?
I think the problem is that the distances are longer and conditions harsher in America in comparison to Europe. So the breaking points show more readily. couple that to the perception about German engineering and repair costs and you have a messy image.
Add in that gas and registration taxes/fees are so much less in America than Europe, especially for a big car, so that maintenance and repair are a proportionally larger piece of the cost-of-ownership pie.
I have also seen exactly one, in the parking lot of a Santa Rosa, CA radiology clinic where my wife had an appointment last month. I had to look at it twice, then again to understand fully that it was a Volkswagen. Its styling, to me, actually looked GM!
It had Ohio plates…so it probably wasn’t bought locally.
One of the main reasons the Phaeton failed in the US is because who wants to pay at least $70,000 for a Volkswagen? Also, VW’s sketchy reliability record.
We service (well…) two of these at my shop. Both belonging to the same couple. His is a 2004 W12 and hers is a 2005 W8. The last time we say the W12, it had 60k miles, every warning light imaginable, and a tire that needed replaced due to a sidewall bubble. The owner declined to pay for a new tire and brought in a used tire he wanted put on.
That sums up the service history of their two car fleet.
I don’t understand why such a cheap person would buy such a mind-blowingly expensive, finnicky, bespoke, and service intensive car only to decline to service it.
COTD! That is seriously weird.
Did they buy them used? If so, they may have been the “A lot of car for the money” type of shoppers. I’m that way, and I tend to lean towards cheaper parts. I’ve put used tires on vehicles when times were tight, and I bring parts in to my mechanic. It saves me a lot of money, and the quality is the same.
I own an Audi, and am very happy with it. Maybe people with my tendencies tend to prefer VAG products????
I was always intrigued by these cars. I always thought they looked imposing and attractive. To be honest, I find them more distinctive than the similar A8. Despite VW’s less prestigious name (which has gone further downmarket with the current generation Jetta and Passat), I still feel it has a more premium aura than say, Toyota or Ford. Maybe because I was only 10 when it came out, and less aware of brand snob appeal, I never saw the VW badge as a hinderance to its appeal. Of course, VW’s somewhat spotty reliability and high cost of ownership would be a huge reason I wouldn’t consider buying a cheap used one.
I agree that attaching the Volkswagen name to a high end luxury car is a little off on the face of it. The Phaeton name to American ears also sounds a little bit broughamy. I am a little disappointed that the car itself did not find it’s niche. A high end luxury car that would look not out of place in a line of Passats means that it could be enjoyed privately by the discrete owner. I know discrete wealth is out but perhaps VW could have done the old Mercedes thing of badge delete. Perhaps if they accept low sales and just let the car find it’s market.
I remember when the Phaeton was announced I was working for a VW dealer. I was sure these wouldn’t sell in the US. I thought then and now it should have been an Audi. They must sell enough worldwide to make it worth keeping into production. I also bought a VW just before Dieselgate. A pampered ’87 German Jetta GL for $700.00. On the list of Craig for $950.00. When I called the guy who bought it from the original owner he said it was running but now won’t start. I asked if he would take $700.00 if I could get it to start. He agreed, I brought a spare fuel pump relay and it fired right up. He wasn’t happy but stuck to the agreement. It’s been garaged all its life and is in great condition, inside and out. Same color and interior as the ’86 I’ve owned since ’91. Brakes, wheel bearings, wheel cylinders and 2 tires later it runs and drives great. No dealership problems, it will never see anyone but me to work on it.
Just take a look at this nice boot (trunk) hinge on the Phaeton. Very nice in fact.
KJ in Oz
I swear French fry grease is the best interior paint remover in the world.
Love the flowery language in the listing (along with the obligatory exclamation points):
“…we recondition the entire vehicle and make sure it’s ready for you!”
Um, to be ready for ME and my level of automotive OCD, your reconditioning guy had better check on a few things, like the overhead console buttons, the trim behind the rear driver’s side door, missing wheel trim, cracked front bumper and a dead display in the dash. Oh, and where are the floor mats?
“We specialize in providing extra clean Florida cars with low mileage to buyers around the world!”
Extra clean? Have you noticed that big, brown stain in the trunk carpeting?
Don’t walk. RUN. This steed has been ridden hard, and put up wet.
This car comes with all sorts of extras they aren’t charging for. From the description:
“Structural damage”
“Codes in memory”
“LCD screen malfunction”
“Right HID inoperative”
The $11G price is only the down payment on this money pit.
Lets face it Buzzdog, if you wanted the car perfect you could have bought it for circa 65k new in 2004. These guys used a good bit of elbow grease to get this tired car looking like it does. For what 4-5k now.
no – its been abused/well driven…..I get what your saying but this is not a well cared for car and not worth the asking price
better examples exist for cheaper prices
When I first saw this thing I thought “Austin 3 litre” – a car so out of step with its producer’s image that it HAD to fail. The Phaeton did not appeal to typical VW buyers – and certainly not to people who are in the market for a large, technology-laden luxury sedan. At least Austin had an excuse: it DID have some tradition of producing large-ish 6 cylinder cars before the 3 litre; it’s just (among other things) that the market has shifted. In VW’s case, none: there were enough people in the concern who ought to have known about the 3 litre, the Audi A8 was already established and, worst of all, they tried this sort of thing just a couple of years earlier with the Passat W8 and it was an utter failure. So no excuses. Another case of of F. Piech’s ego overwhelming the managerial non-entities at Wolfsburg. To me, they don’t even make a good used cheaper luxury sedans, not when (here in Austria) there are (more reliable) Lancia Themas and Chrysler 300s for even less money or, if you must, Audi A8s.
VWs may be great for the first 5 years in Norway, then the warranty is out.
There’s a garage around the corner from my office building that specializes in VW and Audi products, and I’ve occasionally seen a Phaeton in the lot. They likely charge less than a dealer for service and maybe have a good line on used parts…though I imagine that scoring parts (new or used) for a Phaeton is a job unto itself. And speaking of VW’s recent diesel woes, I talked to my sister a few weeks ago. She’s the proud owner of a 2013 Passat TDI that she bought new. She’s been quite happy with it, but time will tell if it holds up as well as her Hondas.
Read the Wiki article for the Phaeton, the “design brief” for this car was borderline outrageous. For example, the W12 was supposed to be able to maintain over 200 MPH for hours on end.
Obviously, most prospective buyers cross-shopped the Audi A8. The Phaeton is heavier and thirstier than a comparable A8, and would be slower if not for gearing “tricks”.
I’m not really understanding why Hyundai has (seemingly) pulled off this shift upmarket, but not VW.
I remember reading about that brief, another item from memory was the hood should not move or vibrate at 155mph. Sounds easy but no doubt contributed to the extraordinary curb weight. I would like to read what the other 8 items were.
The whole concept of having to use oddball 5w40 motor oil in a lowly New Beetle or the 1.8t engine will sludge up is dumb. American drivers want automotive appliances, not finicky highly stressed, high maintenance equipment.
In theory the Phaeton is a neat idea, but it’s a steel-bodied A8…might as well just get an A8 and be done with it. The big Hyundai is a nice, inoffensive car, and if it turns out to be as reliable as most other Korean cars, they may get a toehold in a higher end market.
I could see Cadillac trying to go upmarket, and blowing it, just like VW did.
I think they are asking twice what it’s worth….taking advantage of German depreciation, a year ago I paid $13K for a 2007 S550, black on black, not showroom condition but close. More miles than this VW (though I also doubt their mileage claim), but one owner and dealer maintained since new with all receipts. One year and 13,000 miles later I replaced the washer pump myself for $18 is the only repair.
I’ve always wondered: how come VW has terrible reliability reputation in the U.S., while the opposite is true in Europe?
I think it has to do with driving distances. In about 3 years, I’ve put 70k miles on my A6 Avant. From what I understand (Which isn’t much), Europeans tend to drive less. In Wyoming, a car with over 200k miles isn’t a rare sight by any means. In Europe, it’s probably more of an oddity….
Plenty of folks drive at least 35,000 to 40,000 km a year. Mainly for the job or business. The fact is, if you were in Europe, your car would probably have been an Audi A6 Avant 3.0 TDI.
And then there’s the fact that rolling down the freeway, say at 75 to 80 mph, isn’t nearly as bad for a car as driving short distances constantly, in heavy traffic conditions (Stop and Go all the time).
Cars with at least 300,000 km on the odometer aren’t an oddity, really. Not even in my small country. But you will find the letter D somewhere on the trunk lid.
Ouch! The simple interior in my 2002 Dodge Durango has been multiples more durable.
Those roof console buttons are a disgrace.
Any thoughts about picking up a new Passat on the cheap right now have officially been banished.
Sheesh!
Another +1 on the Centralia reference. Visit in the winter when there’s snow on the ground. Mostly.
Reverse CC effect (I just saw this post): I saw one of these over the weekend in North Conway, NH, with Quebec plates. I was in awe as I couldn’t remember the last time I saw one. Tried to explain to my 16-year-old son that it was basically an Audi A8 sold as a VW for about the same money. As the predictable confusion showed on his face, I replied, “They didn’t sell very many.”
Here in Germany the Phaeton stands for true and typical Volkswagen high quality – which really exists, at last in Germany 🙂 Volkswagen dealers her are “famous” for their incompetence and unfriendly ways of “serving” you as well (but, hey, in the end they all are typical clerks, remember? “Just the fact we serve you doesn’t mean we like you.”)
Piëch indeed wanted and forced the upscale of the whole Volkswagen brand, declaring Skoda being the new true “Folks” Wagon. A new meaning of Volkswagen, as even we here in Germany had to “learn”. But now people are used to it and pay more money to have the VW-badge, and not the Skoda or the Seat.
As a motor journalist, I observed the career of the Phaeton for a long time. It is still build at the Gläserne Manufaktur (which means transparent factory, although no parts are build there, but all Phaetons (and Bentley Flying Spurs and Touaregs) are assembled here by hand (!)) in Dresden. The Manufaktur was originally built only for the prestige of the Phaeton, which in Germany still challenges quite well with S-Class, Lexus, BMW 7 Series and the Audi A8.
And yes, the typical Phaeton customer exists. Here in Europe and especially in Germany it means driving real understatement on wheels: highest standards of engineering in a very personal way and shape. Yes, it looks similar to a Passat, but that’s no surprise. The BMW 7 Series has equal looks like the 5 Series, the same with E-class and S-class…
What I feel remarkable about the Phaeton: After twelve years the Phaeton is still build in almost its original shape – and sells well, especially the asian market looked up when the Phaeton got its latest facelift (by which he lost its typical “eagle eyes”, what I personal regret a bit).
It’s very interesting to read about a complete different view on Volkswagen in the US (bad quality, unreliability), maybe it could have its origin in the US-assembly of many Volkswagen at Westmoreland and in Chattanooga. (I don’t want to blame anybody in your place, I know endless stories about real honks in the Wolfsburg plant as well…). I remember many problems with the Westmoreland-Rabbits while its sibling Golf I stood for economy, quality and good engineering. Some of the former engineers and even former CEO Carl Hahn told me that the US-specs (different dashboard and seats in typical US-style, much softer springs and shocks etc.) made the Rabbit to something that VW Europe never had wanted to be sold! Well, that’s years ago…
But, to get back on the Phaeton: Yes, the car has its fellows and customers, which wouldn’t never go for a Merc or an Audi (not to mention Lexus, which here in Germany still has the “charisma” of an overdone Toyota, sounds like the same standing the Phaeton has in the US, uhm?).
Car magazines in Germany just recently wrote about the Phaeton being a “Wait-Timer”, a car waiting to become a looked-after classic (according to Oldtimers and Youngtimers). Strange thought? Not at all. Think of Alfa 156, Rover 75, Coupé Fiat, even Golf IV or Mercedes CLK and the first Audi TT or the iconic A2.
Huh, cars – what an endless field. I love it! 🙂
Three cheers for CC from Hamburg, Germany,
Simon
I won the bet. I am still driving my 2004 Phaeton in 2023 as a daily driver. It the finest car I have ever owned. It purrs and has absolutely no vibration and everything works. Yes, the maintenance is expensive. I had one repair bill for 11k in 2019 but that goes with the territory. I would buy another one if I could but they don’t make them anymore. In Georgia, I had to take it to Atlanta (100 miles away) for maintenance since the local VW dealer did not have a certified mechanic for it and would not touch it. Aside from that, it’s a marvelous car and very reliable. In 20 years it has never stranded me once. Unless you have owned one you have no idea what you are talking about. It is a rare car in the USA and parts are now getting difficult, however.