(first posted 5/1/2013) The Ferdinand Piëch era at VW resulted in many spectacular things; most of them successful. But his tendency to over-reach resulted in a few spectacular failures, like the very short-lived Passat W8. It was VW’s first shot into the true premium market, an effort to turn the Passat into a BMW 5-series competitor. It was also a test bed for the W-engine family, which in 12 cylinder trim would soon appear in that other over-reach, the Phaeton, and the 16 cylinder version in the ultimate über-mobile, the Bugatti Veyron. So how would you like to have just bought a used Passat W8, like this temporary-tagged black wagon’s owner?
The notion of turning VW’s narrow-angle VR engine (5 and 6 cylinder) into a double-bank “W” engine is obviously compelling, given what a compact eight cylinder engine would ensue. Which of course was appealing, if one is going to hang it in front of the transaxle centerline, as in the Passat B5 (based on Audi architecture). Still, Audi did have its own quite compact V8 engine in its cars, but this was Volkswagen! The result looks like something Lancia might have cooked up in the early sixties, had they been that ambitious.
It’s compact, but very complex too. And from what I read on a few forums, if you drive into your friendly VW dealer with a W8 problem, you’re not likely to be met with open arms. It’s quickly becoming an orphan engine.
Ironically, these cars aren’t all that hot. The 4 liter (half of the Bugatti’s 8 liter) W8 was rated at 275 hp, which even ten years ago was a tad modest for a four liter eight. Prices starting above $40k ($50k adjusted), or twice the price of a regular Passat, made the W8 a non-starter.
The interior received a few upgrades. There was a stick available, but the automatic was the preferred box of choice.
Some 10,000 Passat W8s were built, before the model quietly disappeared after 2004. By then, VWoA was having enough other challenges, trying to sell the Phaeton. Now, it’s a very rare sight indeed. I wonder if this new owner knows what’s they’ve just (really) bought?
My guess not. (That they’ve bought somebody else’s problems…)
Amen to that. If you buy a Vee-Dub you’re either rich and aspire to look plebian or you like spending a large percentage of your hard-earned dollars on car repairs. God but they are expensive to fix, and not particularly reliable at that.
I test drove a 6 speed W8 sedan when they were new for the fun of it. The engine sounds amazing, and has really good pull in a car that size, but it was outrageously overpriced. I think over $50k at the time. Very strange, and interesting engine, but I wouldn’t want to maintain any pricey VW or Audi of this vintage, much less one with an almost unheard of engine. It’s a shame, a 4motion W8 wagon would be such a good car.
I still have recurring nightmares about working on our ’02 Passat wagon with the 1.8t. The thought of a W8 in the same car makes me want to cry softly in a dark corner.
Indeed. Mine was a new ’98 sedan with the 1.8T. It taught me never to have contact with a VW dealer again. Imagine a steering rack going out at 30,000 miles and not being covered by warranty.
I see one of these with a stick in my neighborhood every couple of weeks. I’ve always wondered how many can there be around.
As if VW didn’t have enough reasons already to scare me from buying! Their name is VOLKSwagen, not ARISTOKRATENwagen.
This is what’s known as a ‘brand disconnect.’
Or, as someone put it when the Phaeton was rolled out, to what question is the answer an $80,000 Volkswagen?
Particularly when VAG already had a whole stack of Audis with lower prices and more upscale badges.
I drove a used one with a stick a few years ago but after reading about them on the internet, it was just not going to happen, way too much to go wrong and the dealers are not very interested or knowledgable about them. You are right, they just are not as fast as one would think anyway, no real reason to choose this over an Audi A6 with either the 4.2V8 or an Allroad with the 2.7t if it has to be a wagon.
The 2004 had a sport package option that lowered the car a bit and gave it a nice set of BBS (or at leat BBS-look) cross-spoke wheels.
Not only did the W8 made modest power, as Paul points out, but the 5-speed Tiptronic was poorly suited to handling its power. Either it was poorly programmed or it sapped a lot of power or both; contemporary reviews said it had poor response. I do know that the same transmission was paired to the Passat TDI VW sold in 2004 and 2005 and that the torque convertors would give up the ghost fairly early as they (apparently) couldn’t handle that engine’s 236 lb/ft or torque.
However, with a 6-speed, I bet it’s a delightful engine. If you’ve ever YouTube’d videos of Passat W8s with modified exhausts, you’ll also note how truly wonderful the engine sounds. I think that a good mechanic; a very good, very patient mechanic, could own one of these cars with a 6-speed as a daily and truly enjoy it. The Audis with the 2.7t aren’t exactly reliable and have the ghastly Servotronic steering; I think I’d enjoy the W8 a bit more.
It’s an absolute delight! Patience is needed for some things around the engine and it’s tight compartments, but even with my huge German hands I haven’t had too much a problem… Being somewhat mechanically savvy always helps, though. As all cars, it does have it’s cons, but they are far outweighed by the pros.
Maybe the cons are somewhat outweighed in Germany, but in the US… not!
So used W8 with 275hp or any used V6 family sedan (or CUV if you have to have the space) on the lot with roughly 275 to 300hp for equivalent or slightly more money? I know what choice I’d make.
Camry had 268 horsepower in 2006, and they don’t break.
Toyotas do break. I repair them.
Owned one VW, a 1998 Passat 1.8 Turbo 5-speed. Absolutely the most unreliable and costly car I have ever owned. After the turbo was replaced under warranty (twice) and the a/c was repaired under warranty (about 4 times) I unloaded it for a new 2003 Accord. Somehow the lady that bought the Passat got my phone # and called me several times to ask about the car. After the third time she called me I told her, “Lady, it was a lemon – that’s why I got rid of it. If you call me again I’m calling the police.” Never heard from her again.
It wasn’t a lemon, it was a Volkswagen. Par for the course.
As an aside, my NUMMI-mobile Chevy Prizm died this weekend. I think it snapped a connecting rod. That’s OK, it was an oil eater and was a dog 3 years ago when I got it. Anyway, I was looking for cars that I could afford and was positively bombarded by Beetles. It was hard, really hard, to resist the temptation, but I ended up in a meticulously maintained 2002 Honda Accord EX 5-speed. Taking one of those Beetles would have been utter suicide and I knew it. But damn, Vee-Dub makes cars that tickle my funny bone.
Real Volkswagen’s do not have a radiator. End of discussion.
Search VW and Phaeton on ebay, its amazing what little they go for considering how expensive they were. There is a W12 on one there now for $17K, thats like Kia Rio money.
Enter at your own risk.
It would cost you that much to keep it running over a couple of years.
It looks horrendously complex and a PIA to work on.A problem in search of a solution seeing Audi had it’s own V8.Not seen any that I know of but there again who would buy a VW when you could get an Audi for less,no wonder there were few takers.
A coworker of mine just bought a W8 sedan. She has no experience with European cars what so ever (IE repair bills) I hope she lets me drive it before some massive repair sidelines it for good.
I like the idea that some car companies are still willing to try unusual engine designs, its nice to know there is some quirk left in mainstream auto makers.
Drove a navy blue W8 Passat 4motion sedan with auto new in 2002. Fast and powerful, if a little heavy for its size. Best of all, it was the company car – brand new, under warranty, and paid for by someone else. It was lovely on a long road trip in Eastern Europe.
Wow building this was insane enough, but a 6sp version – who would buy that as a new car? I’m sure I’ve seen at least one, and that was a wagon too. The only scarier prospect to own I think would be the Audi Q7 TDi V12!
haha look at all you haters… I read this, I heard that… Have any of you actually owned one? I own an 03′ black Passat W8 4Motion, 6 spd with 100k+ miles and despite the minor TLC required, I have never ran into a single, major, problem. It’s simple: take care of your vehicle, and it will take care of you. If you fail to properly maintain this car, or any car, they will no doubt be a major hassle. Don’t get me wrong, I have worked on many things with this car (considering I bought it used with 80k miles), and the tight engine compartment is a pain, but this car’s power, torque, and traction are un-rivaled (other than maybe a WRX) by any other car of this class. 270 AWHP doesn’t fuck around.. and 4Motion combined with their traction control makes driving thru 2+ feet of snow simple. It removes the white knuckle driving, and allows you to enjoy a comfortable and safe ride. Replaced my BMW 528i with the W8 and I will never go back!
-Michigander, born and raised
Did the wagon W8 ever come with the 6 speed?
“Have any of you actually owned one?”
if you had read the page, you’d have seen at least three people recount their horror stories with VWs.
Turbo (1.8l) VW’s… ALL turbo engines (especially those that aren’t WELL maintained) get destroyed/have problems -extreme ones’- with the slightest of problems.
Simple, comfortable, and safe driving in 2+ feet of snow eh?
Sure, you betcha.
Sincerely,
Minnesotan
So long as it’s powder.. but obviously the low ground clearance of any sedan presents physical limitations.
Sincerely,
Land of 11 Thousand Lakes
See A… Phaeton here on Cape Cod occasionally ….. rare indeed…. a good look to be sure….. but yes, troubles await!
Ive driven a passat w8 . I am a pisten head .. and I actualy berlieve the w8 to b the best road production car of the day….. these new cars.. are all nearly , if not all electronic..
If you ever get the opportunity, which I doubt, one should go for a ride in a twin turbo W8 with row your own, in a golf. I had one such experience. The tires were still spinning at over 160 KM.
Owning a W8 takes a special person, one who is patient and mechanically talented. My daughter bought a 2002 Passat 2.8 30 valve, auto, 4-Motion in Indigo Blue Pearl with a tan leather interior. After I sorted the mechanicals out and finally got all the warning lights out, it has been a delightful first car for her. She loves it and so do I.
Falling in love with the VW B5.5 platform is what prompted me to search out a W8 for my stable. I found a 2003 W8 wagon in the same color (one of 4 imported for ’03) for a very reasonable price. My daily ride is a 2012 Audi S4 tuned with 500 hp and I have to tell you that my W8 Passat is a blast to drive. It handles well, is comfy, and very unsuspecting! The W8 pulls hard up to redline and has a beautiful melodiousness in the process.
Parts for the car (not engine) are cheap and plentiful in almost any salvage yard I frequent. With proper maintenance and care, I hope the engine continues to bring me joy for years.
I think many of us may agree: “Proper maintenance and care is a must if you want to enjoy an engine like this!”
I do not own a W8 but a Jetta 1.8T AUQ which has served its first months as a factory prototype test car, body #000096″, production control code X9X. What can I say else but we are past 200k now on the first turbo. Pwr seats, a/c, tiptronic and such things are still fine, but after 20 years the exhaust and the cv joint boots recently gave in. No need to ask: All dealer stamps are in the booklet, all service events properly done in time. And yes, the color is Indigo Blue Pearl. Seems to be a good choice.
Well, my very first car was a rusty Ford. Did no regular maintenance, thought it was a lemon, and whoa, it developed issues over issues, so I got rid of it and told everybody all Fords must be lemons. 40 years ago! I think I know a little bit better by now.
It’s usually the owner, not the vehicle that is the lemon.
ive seen a W8 wagon but knew nothing about them,VWs are expensive here and dont have a very good rep, parts are expensive
About five years ago, a shop I ran had wound up with a Passat W8 taking up a valuable parking space. The previous owner had signed over the title rather than paying off a bill that was no more than $300.00 IIRC. The car was running and driving, with cosmetics that were very nice for a fifteen-year-old VW.
We couldn’t sell it to a customer, as we took our reputation very seriously. Pretty much anything other than a Honda, Toyota, GM truck with pushrods, or Subaru(ironic, I know) was disposed of in a way that was meant to isolate us from a future unhappy owner. I think we sold used Subarus because of who bought them instead of the cars, which were more problematic than just about anything else. Subaru buyers happily spent more keeping their used Outbacks and Foresters running than they could have been spending leasing Audis, so I guess the owner of the shop liked making lemonade out of some lemons more than others.
Anyway, if there was a buyer for our Passat W8, it would have been someone with no money and no clue. The result would have been an aggrieved loudmouth who spends time on social media, so the VW needed to be disposed of safely. I called the salvage yard that bought most of the cars that our customers decided weren’t worth fixing. Almost any car was worth fifty to two hundred dollars and a free tow, while some trucks were worth several hundred dollars. I asked what a Passat W8 was worth to the salvage buyer. He said it wasn’t worth anything. What about scrap metal? They were sitting on too much waiting for the price to rebound. I told him it was a running and driving car with no cosmetic damage. It’s got half a Bugatti engine! Would he at least tow it away for free? No.
Our local Lincoln/Cadillac/Nissan dealer had a really shady auction periodically. It was presented as a wholesale auction that was open to the public, which allowed some people to think they were getting amazing deals on cars by bidding against dealers, when everyone involved actually knew that the cars were all nightmares. This was the place you went if you needed to unload a 3.7 liter Jeep GC that only ran until it heated up and lost compression, or a Ford Triton V8 truck needing exhaust studs, timing chain tensioners, and coils. All a car needed to be sold there was a valid state inspection sticker and the ability to drive across the block. The Passat W8 was a perfect fit for the victims of the ‘wholesale’ auction. It brought at least $1,800.
Thank you for your comment. I found it very interesting.
I am a fan of engine diversity, and the W series and the other narrow offset V engines are intriguing. The W8 engine is so rare, that I don’t think I have ever seen a photo of it before.
I wonder if a transverse W4 with center of the V intake valves and exhaust valves on the outside, tilted back 45 degrees would have worked when carburetors were king and before the Fiat 128 showed the practicality of an inline 4 with the clutch and transmission at the end of the engine block. What happened to the W4?