Tim Finn posted some shots from a recent Cars and Coffee event in Portland, and this is what caught my eye. It takes the typical low sedan – high 4×4 pickup theme to another level. Now that’s a serious brodozer. And I think this is a first appearance of a Honda S2000 here at CC; long overdue. We could really use a COAL on one. Anybody?
We’ve never done a really comprehensive post on the Unimog, which would take some doing as it’s really a whole family of trucks. Johannes Dutch did showcase a similar single cab Unimog here last fall. This member is from the gnarly branch of the family, and was probably used in some commercial application where there are no roads at all. It looks about as unstoppable as it gets, for a non-tracked vehicle. It wouldn’t have any trouble driving right over that S2000 either.
Count me as another who would love to read a COAL on the S2000. From where I sit (with very little contact with these, all indirect) they seem to be the rare Honda that is a brittle maintenance hog. Miatas are everywhere while the S2000 is increasingly hard to find.
They didn’t really compete in the same price class and the Miata outsold the S2000 by huge margins from day one, so the Honda was never a very common sight.
The last time I was in Half Moon Bay, I did see a caravan of at least a dozen S2000s coming over Hwy 92. They have a pretty loyal following in California, as they seem to appeal to high-tech sports car lovers, not surprisingly.
Agreed. That the Honda was so expensive sort of shows how they missed the market. A Honda sports car that sold in the range of what the other Hondas sold for would have mopped up, especially if the car was as robust as other Hondas. But this one whiffed twice – it tried to play waaaay out of Honda’s traditional league and it did not develop the same reputation for long, easy life that other Hondas had. It is amazing that nobody ever really cracked the Miata code. This could almost be the genesis of a new series – How Hard Can It Be To Make A Roadster. 🙂
While the most direct comparison is with a Miata, it seems that the Honda may have been aimed at the Z3/Z4 instead. They punched up, when they should have punched down. A Honda equivalent to a Miata would have killed Miata sales. They went for sports car when it should have been affordable roadster. Honda made it more like a BMW. They made it more expensive, with the really trick VTEC engine that was known for incredible HP per liter while normally aspirated and fancy features, but without the cachet of the BMW roundel on the hood and trunk. People were trained to pay more for a BMW. The reality is that the public liked the fact that the Miata, while underpowered, was relatively cheap as well as reliable, as expected from Asian manufacturers. If it would have been a Civic-based roadster, it may have sold in higher numbers.
The Honda should have been an Acura over here. In all other markets the NSX was a Honda so when you put it next to that it makes more sense from a price perspective.
Another competitor could also be a base Boxster along with the aforementioned Z3/4. I think Honda was aiming higher than Miata from the beginning and I don’t think they were that unhappy with it, it definitely ended up as a bit of a halo car.
Of all of them (Boxster, Z3/4, Miata), the S2000 is the only one whos prices are actually seeming to head up these days. Un-crashed, clean, original examples are hard to find, and ALL were enthusiast owned as opposed to the others. Not offering an automatic tends to do that…
The S2000 had a relatively short run and has been out of production for a long time. If it pulls your trigger, there’s no substitute.
The others have been in continuous production for 25 or 30 years, and are available brand new.
Good for you, JP. As stated further down below, glad you were open to learning about what the S2000 really is. As an owner, I am very grateful that the S is nothing like any other car. I think Mr. Honda hit the bull’s eye straight on, and hard. A man of great vision, determination and intelligence, what a great gift he gave himself and to us, on the 50th anniversary of manufacturing Honda automobiles.
Hey JP. Hope you enjoy the new post about the S2000. Always appreciate your comments and articles. Keep up the great work; contributors such as yourself make this site. Not sure of the terminology, but if the above definition is “bullet-proof, unbreakable, strong-as-an-ox, only goes in for scheduled service & to visit with the other Hondas, and put smiles on the techs’ faces” you’re right-on as usual.
Did Car and Driver magazine ever do a Unimog/Pinzgauer comparison test?
I’d rather see a Unimog / S2000 comparison test.
With the dings and faded paint, it looks like the Unimog has been earning its keep for quite a while doing exactly what it was designed for. As for the S2000, I’d pass on it and go for a Miata as well.
Well, Not a real review, but I can offer a short review of a 20 minute drive in a brand new S2000 back in year 2000 when my second wife and I had an opportunity to drive a friend’s brand new S2000.
Mostly, let’s compare it to our 1999 NB Miata (bought new in 1998):
One sits more on than in a Miata. One sits deeply inside a S2000; the belt line feels quite high.
The Miata feels light and agile – and small. The S2000 feels MUCH heavier, bigger, and bulkier. And, probably safer.
Both have great shifters. The S2000 shifter is metallic and feels expensive; the Miata’s is not and does not.
The Miata engine is a nice looking metal thing; the S2000 is a work of art with red accents; it looks serious and exotic and I cannot quite identify all of the stuff in there.
The Miata drives like a normal car – just keep it over 2K rpm for a daily driveable experience. As the S2000 was new at the time we drove it carefully and did not rev it much; accordingly, it felt lethargic and heavy. I know – it needs high RPMs to flourish and flower, but who revs the hell out of a daily driver when making a grocery run to ShopRite?
Goose the Miata in 1st gear and she does her best impression of a 1960 MGA. Goose the S2000 in first gear and she does her best impression of a bored super model. Maybe later she promises: “when I’m in the mood”.
I never drove a BMW Z# roadster, but if that’s the S2000’s target competition, I’ll have to declare “not qualified to compare the two”.
BTW, higher up the sports ladder, goose a 911 in 1st gear at any RPM – ANY RPM – and you better be aimed straight down the road. Also, bring a change of underwear. It’s another level of driving altogether.
End result after driving the S2000, I thought even better about owning the Miata. It is IMHO a more honest, useful, and practical vehicle; it’s the MGA, Bugeye, and TR3 I could never afford when they were the latest word in sports cars of the day.
End result after the driving the 911, I thought I’d live longer with the Miata. OK sour grapes – they’re way too expensive!
Long story short, the S2000 owner eventually sold his hot Honda and bought a “lightly used” 2003 Audi RS6, and sometime later, made my second wife his second wife -or- what I would call going TWICE from the frying pan into the fire.
I still have the Miata; it’ll be 21 years old this November.
Hello RLPlaut; Glad you had the chance to drive an S2000 a long time ago. I first drove the Miata when they were just introduced, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience; similar to an early 60s British roadster, simple, direct, lots of fun. Sounds like you made the right choice. Gotta admit, thoroughly enjoy my S2000, whether on short grocery runs or long cross-country trips. You’re exactly right, you don’t really sit inside the S, you sort of wear it. Having owned the Germans, as amazing as the driving experiences are, wouldn’t trade my Japanese ‘S’ for any of one of them, at any price. Safe miles to you.
I’ll admit I’m not really qualified to even think to myself about roadsters. I’ve never owned, nor to my recollection, driven one. Just not my cup of tea, although I have admired the MGB and Spitfire. My only experience with a car of these sorts is a friend’s Miata. It was an early 90s (with the pop-up headlights) that he drove as his only car for 15 years until his death a few years ago. The few times we rode together somewhere, I drove my pickup truck, and him being near 70 years old, I’d drive conservatively. Once, he drove his car. Let me reiterate…once. He drove like a madman, and I was not used to riding so low to the ground, and while he drove well, the car itself didn’t inspire much confidence.. So let’s just say again, those cars aren’t my cup of tea.
But considering the S2000, it always looked like a handsome car, and I’m inclined to say it was slotted to compete with the BMW Zs, rather than the wheezier Miata. I did speak with a S2000 owner at a gas station once, and expressed the same thoughts about the car as broached in this article, namely why wasn’t it more popular? His short answer was horsepower. Too much of it. 256 hp if I recall. Insurance was too much to make it competitive with the Miata, and the brand name didn’t carry the gravitas of BMW and Porsche. Made sense to me
Hi Frankster; sorry for the loss of your friend. Yes, the S2000 is powerful and fast, if you keep the engine revved. Yet, it’s a Honda, plain and simple. Unless pushed, tame and civilized. Regarding the sales figures, IMHO, the S is comparable to an exotic, a genuine a race car, neither of which sell in high numbers. Among owners and those who are knowledgeable about the car, they’re extremely popular, revered. Value/price steady, many consider the S2000 as already collectible. When driving mine and passing another, a big grin, and ‘V’ hand wave from the other cars’ drivers are almost always a given. Loyalty, pride of ownership. Personally, I like that the S is not perceived, image-wise, as being in the company of Porsches and BMWs. Low-key, under the radar… positive attributes. No problem if not your cup of tea; gotta do what works for you. Stay safe.
Today’s Curbside Classic articles happen to magically feature both of my current vehicles – a 4th generation Toyota 4Runner and a Honda S2000.
My S2000 is a 2003 model, purchased brand new. I had just turned 40 at the time, so this may have been my so-called “mid-life crisis” sports car.
In my humble opinion, 2003 may be the best year for an S2000, as it was the first year to feature a glass rear window instead of the previous vinyl, the design bugs/recalls had been worked out, and it was the last year for the F20C 2-liter engine with its 9000 RPM redline. At the time it was introduced, the F20C established a record of 120 HP per per liter from a normally aspirated engine, which was a big deal back in the day.
In the S2000’s 2004 update, a longer stroke 2.2-liter F22C engine was introduced. It had the same 240 HP as the F20C, but a little more torque. However, the F22C was limited to “only” an 8,000 redline due to the longer stroke. This, together with a “drive by wire” accelerator that replaced the cable linkage, arguably took away a bit of the S2000’s original character.
I think I’ve only taken my S2000 to redline once or twice, since due to the gearing of the transmission you can find yourself at extra-legal speeds near redline even in first gear. Power really comes on at 6,000 rpm and above, owing to Honda’s VTEC variable valve timing (most Honda engines make their power in the upper rev range). The car is quite fast if you keep the revs up.
My S2000 has been relatively trouble-free since I’ve owned it. Only regular maintenance and a clutch master cylinder have been needed. S2000s do tend to go through tires, however, due to the suspension geometry and the specified soft tread compound, high-performance tires. So, in about 70,000 miles I’ve gone through several sets of tires. But I feel it’s been worth it for the incredible handling and “fun factor” this car delivers.
Hey Dan; nice to meet another S2000 owner. Enjoyed your comments. Redline: a few months ago was turning onto a freeway merge. Up ahead, there was a line-up of about 6 or 7 red Ferraris, also merging. Double lane merge; they being on the left, the S right. Good-natured fun? Amid their collective billows of smoke, and earth-shaking rumble, and by the time the S was out front, the engine cut out for a moment. Had not been paying attention to the tach, was unintentionally still in first gear; reached fuel-cut-off. Engine back on, all well; in rear view mirror, a red blur. Agree, tires are worth the fun.
I had a 2004 S2000 for ten years. I loved it and still regret selling it.
I think a lot of people misunderstood the S2000. It was not Honda’s version of a Miata.
It was one of Soichiro Honda’s last projects and a way for the company to show that it could build a genuine – and genuinely desirable – sports car. In terms of performance, it matched the early Boxster S (later Boxster S types were more powerful, though). It was much faster and more nicely trimmed than a Miata and handled much better than a Z3. It was plenty fast – 0-60 in about 6 seconds, top speed of 150 – but I think handling was its real strong suit. I did things on winding roads (in north Baltimore County, Paul Niedermeyer) that would have killed me in just about anything else.
The S2000 was deliberately made in limited numbers, alongside the NSX, and paid tribute to the first Hondas, the S models of the mid- to late 60s. They were made to a very high standard of quality. While they are now a fairly rare sight on the roads, they were never commonplace. Quite a few have wound up on Bring a Trailer in recent years and they almost always generate a lot of interest.
My S2000 was the first year of the second generation, an AP2 (the 1999-2003 models were AP1s). The AP2s had a slightly larger engine displacement than the AP1s (2.2 liter instead of 2.0). HP stayed the same at about 240, but a moderate increase in torque made the car considerably more tractable in normal traffic. The tradeoff was a lower redline – 8,200 vs. 9,000 (both crazy high). The AP2s also had an improved suspension setup, correspondingly bigger wheels and tires, a slightly more accommodating cabin, and a few cosmetic changes. I think the AP2s are easier to live with, but some people like how even more visceral the AP1s are.
JP Cavanaugh: My S2000 was bulletproof and Consumer Reports ratings consistently had the car at or near the top of its reliability rankings every year it was in production. I had to replace the brakes once and the tires twice in the decade I owned the car, but all I needed to do otherwise was change the fluids at recommended intervals. I recall Jack Baruth complaining in a post on TTAC that tracking the car (something it’s very well suited for) showed the transmission to be fragile, but I think that probably reflects how he hoons cars.
Lastly, I suppose the S2000 could have been marketed as an Acura, but it’s not like it was extravagantly priced. The car listed for $35K new – several thousand dollars less than a comparably equipped Boxster or Z3 – and remained right around that price point for its entire ten-year production run. The Miata was much less expensive, but as I note above, it was not in the same ballpark in terms of performance.
.
Thanks for sharing this firsthand experience. Somewhere along the line I picked up the impression that the S2000 was a tad brittle, but you have convinced me that my impression may have been incorrect.
Hello Tronan; sorry about an S slipping through your fingers. It happens. Everyone I have ever spoken with who has sold theirs has regrets. Hope another one comes into your life soon. If ever in the west, come and drive mine anytime.
The Unimog Doka looks like one I used to see at Intel in the late 90s. At the time it was set up for camping by the simple expedient of taking the wheels off of a popup tent trailer and bolting it to the bed.