In 2004 I paid $3300 for my 1997 Sable with 67k miles on it. Adjusted for inflation, that dollar figure is equivalent to $4400 today. In terms of feature content, age, and size, these two Asian mid-size sedans are basically the contemporary models of what I bought over 15 years ago. With one major exception: they’re both sitting at about 170k each. Is that such a bad thing though?
First up: The 2014 Hyundai Sonata GLS. This is the sedan that heralded the end of the “three box” design employed by basically every automaker for decades. And it signaled Korea’s intent to be taken more seriously. Unfortunately, the sophisticated exterior wrote checks that the chassis couldn’t cash. Publications weren’t enamored with the Sonata’s driving dynamics, but generally liked the feature content and value Hyundai offered. The redesigned 2020 Sonata is clearly trying to play the same game as its predecessor, except this time it might actually be fun to drive.
As for the Sonata in question, it’s a GLS trimmed example. Surprisingly, the 2014 Sonata’s base 2.4 liter four cylinder was rated at 190 horsepower, at least according to this brochure. That figure is still pretty decent by contemporary standards. Power is transmitted through the wheels by Hyundai’s six speed “Shiftronic” automatic. Judging by the pictures, the Sonata looks very clean.
Inside, the cabin looks like it’s held up very well. Features include six airbags, Bluetooth audio, a USB input, active head restraints, and driver selectable steering modes.
Here’s the seller’s description:
“2014 Hyundai Sonata GLS 1 Owner
Auto with 170,000 miles, all Highway miles,
Runs and drives excellent, 4 cylinders,
clean inside and out, all powers,
Am/fm CD player, Aux port, USB port,
Bluetooth, Heat and a/c work great,
serious buyers only. Asking $5,500 obo”
All powers? Does that include x-ray vision or flight? Maybe the Sonata can read people’s thoughts! Anyway, this car has a decent amount of miles on the odometer, but it looks solid and has only had one owner. If this car was purchased new in 2013, it’s been driven an average of about 25k per year. That’s well over the average figure, but it backs up the seller’s highway miles claim. This Hyundai was most likely used to commute from Poughkeepsie to NYC.
Unfortunately, Hyundai’s 2.4 liter received a major recall and this 2014 is no exception. Based on their data, buyers might want to stay away from the car.
By contrast, the 2013 Nissan Altima was the first year for the fifth generation model. It didn’t look too much different than its predecessor, but overall the design was a bit uninspired. Critics seemed to come away pleased with it. They found the Zero-gravity seats to be extremely comfortable and liked the handling, although Good Car Bad Car wasn’t thrilled with the steering. The Nissan also underwent a bit of a diet with the new model. That enabled the Altima to return good fuel economy numbers and earn a 38 mpg EPA highway rating. The CVT’s behavior didn’t seem to be an issue for reviewers. The 2.5 liter four cylinder boasted 182 horsepower and 180 lb-ft. of torque, which was in line with the competition.
That badge on the lower right is Nissan’s “Pure Drive” moniker. They slapped it on cars that earned higher than average CAFE numbers. It seems they abandoned that initiative shortly after it began.
Feature content is comparable to the Sonata. Notable differences include a power driver’s seat, wheel covers instead of alloy wheels, and a Bluetooth phone and audio enabled audio system that did not include a USB port. Both sedans came standard with six airbags.
Here’s the seller’s description:
“2013 Nissan Altima 2.5S, 2 owner,
Automatic with 167,000 miles,
Am/fm CD player, aux port,
Ac and heat work great,
All powers, clean in and out,
Runs and drives excellent,
Serious buyers only, $ 5900 obo”
Like the Hyundai, the Altima seems to be primarily used for commuting purposes. That being said, it looks just as clean as the Sonata, although it did have an extra owner.
The Altima didn’t score much better than the Sonata in CR’s reliability ratings. While the Hyundai got dinged for its troublesome engine, it seems the CVT is an issue for the Nissan.
Is this a situation where buyers would need to pick their poison? If these sedans are actually in the condition they’re claimed to be in, perhaps not. I’d have to imagine the less reliable examples would have been junked at this point. Then again, both of these vehicles seem to have decent resale value. It’s possible the Sonata had engine work in the past and the Altima got a rebuilt transmission at some point. Or not. To that end, I’m honestly not sure which one I’d pick. I think these are very good cars for new drivers, much like my Sable was essentially my first car after my very brief time with my 1989 Taurus wagon. Ultimately, I think I’d go with the Altima. I have to imagine the CVT issues are more easily rectified than the Hyundai’s engine woes. That just a hunch. I wouldn’t pay over $5,000 for it though. That seems like a decent number for a 7 or 8 year old sedan.
Sources:
2013 Nissan Altima, Hudson Valley NY craigslist
2014 Hyundai Sonata, HV NY craigslist
Having had one of each of these, I would probably say the Nissan.
Yes, its CVT can fail, but at this point any transmission shop can replace a Nissan CVT blindfolded. Its interior is nicer, it rides better and gets slightly better MPGs. In my (admittedly short) 3 year ownership, my 2013 had zero issues.
I really like the Sonata, and it was leaps and bounds better than any other midsized sedan when we got it in 2011, but the timing chain broke at 110k miles on an out state vacation & killed it.
But how much does it cost to replace the CVT?
About as much as they want for the car if you get a new one at the dealer.
A new version of either car could likely be had for $20k or less new currently but then taxes would be more, insurance is more, etc for not much difference in engine or trans or anything else for that matter besides more money out of pocket and a lot greater peace of mind.
Between these two I’d perhaps lean slightly towards the Hyundai, if the engine was going to fail it probably would have done so already and been replaced. Transmissions will pretty much all fail eventually so if the Altima’s is original, perhaps that’s the weaker part. Based on what is visible they both have roughly equal appeal.
In the end both asking prices seem a bit on the high side but maybe offer the Craigslist 60% and see who bites first…
When I was a wee lad, my father was amazed at anyone who could/did keep a car past 60,000 miles. To him, and in that time, cars were often “used up” by 60k.
Those days are gone, of course. But there’s still a point when used cars become used up cars. To me, and today, that point is 150k. Now I’m not saying every car is on the verge of becoming a money pit at 150k. A good owner, one who keeps up with maintenance and repair, can keep a car to 200k, maybe 250k.
But the cars presented in this post… I just don’t know. If it’s a one-owner car with a good service history, maybe they’re worth taking a risk. But it’s far more likely they are on their 3rd or 4th owner, and generally each successive owner takes less and less care of their car.
If I was in the market for a sub-$5k car, I’d be looking for cars that were less expensive than these when new, and currently have lower miles. Ideally, I’d find a 15-year-old, little old lady Corolla with 120k on it.
Well Written, Evan.
Those are two different cars? It’s like looking at a 1976 Chevy Nova and a 1976 Buick Apollo and going what’s the difference…?
The Altima’s interior is shown twice.
Fixed! Thanks for pointing that out.
#IMO:
You would be better off, in the long run, finding a Toyota Camry.
No CVT to prematurely fail on you.
No engine issues.
“Pay Now Or Pay Later”.
…or an Avalon. If you’re gonna get an appliance/car, get a damn good one, and that’s a Toyota.
P. S.
Those dayumed ‘Pop Up Ads” that cover up the bottom of this posting window are MOST annoying and irritating!!!!
GRRRRRRRRR
Neither. I’m going to keep looking for something a size or two smaller, preferably with three pedals.
Buy a manual Golf or Passat. My Golf has the EA888 1.8 litre and it is a romper stomper that sips fuel. It can also make 400 hp if you are so inclined.
The EA888 is an engine “family”. The 400hp concept shown by Audi is based on an engine with a 2liter block as opposed to your 1.8l. It is further extremely modified as compared to yours. VAG has been doing this for years (varied power ratings within a family), it often includes replacing every component inside the block with uprated components. In this case it even changes the block itself. Not exactly plug and play.
Some of the differences include and I quote:
“In order to generate the high power output, the 2.0 TFSI underwent profound modifications, including:
Special aluminum pistons with an integrated cooling channel and a crankshaft made from ultra-high-strength forged steel.
The crankcase consists of a new, high-strength casting alloy and the cylinder head has been designed for the increased gas flow rate.
The turbocharger has also been redeveloped and builds up a maximum relative boost pressure of 1.8 bar. It contains a mixed flow turbine wheel that is noted for its particularly fast start-up performance.”
That’s what I’m driving, but even older vintage (2000) than the Altima or Sonata in this article.
I have the 2.0, but they had an unusually wide range of engines offered that year including the 1.8 Turbo and the 1.9 TDi.
I have the 5 speed manual, but I think most folks these days would look for an automatic…quite different than 35 years ago when I was hunting down economy cars for my sisters to buy for college…they only drive automatic, and it was tough to find economy cars that didn’t have manual back then..or didn’t have gobs of miles on them (I live in large sunbelt state, and people tend to drive megamiles, and to save some gas money buy economy cars to do that in).
My 2000 has about 133k miles on it, but I’d think again about recommending it to a normal person who just wants to drive it. It is fun to drive, but it has had its problems…the only one associated with the drivetrain was when the shift linkage degraded such that I couldn’t shift gears (cables to transaxle selector needed replacement) without opening the hood and manually putting the selector shaft into gear. The other problems have been a new steering rack, power lock problems on 2 doors (which I haven’t fixed) and window regulator issues where the glass can drop in the door (bad materials selection). I have been stranded by a bad ignition switch, where I didn’t want to break into the column and try to get it going. Don’t think many people would want to deal with these failures on their daily driver (but that makes mine more theft-resistant).
Despite the low miles (for the year) my car has actually been driven to both coasts (the east coast more than once) from my home in the central sunbelt.
Most of the miles really are highway miles, but that’s deceptive, I haven’t taken many such trips though they did add most of the miles, I hardly ever leave the city I’m in and my commute to work is very short (~2 miles each way), but the city I live in has gotten tremendously more crowded (even since I bought the Golf, but more so in the 36 years I’ve been here) so much of the driving is stop and go slow commute with lots of traffic (which is less fun with a manual). Here an automatic Sonata or Altima make a lot of sense which is why they are well represented (other than pickups and SUVs which like a lot of places dominate the roads).
The Hyundai engine was noted as a trouble point…my car has a decidedly low tech engine people came to call the 2.slow, but one thing it has going for it is that it isn’t trying to push a lot of horsepower out of its displacement, which I think helps with its longevity. It isn’t an interference engine and though I’ve replaced the timing belt (and it is due again) it shouldn’t bend valves if it does break before I do it. I’ve even changed almost all the hoses since cooling systems are important to life of aluminum blocks, and as I mention I live in urban area where overheating is likely due to traffic. So I’d add a little deferred maintenance if I were to buy one of these to keep it going a bit longer in the urban environment.
the two of them were ranked near the bottom of the class so I’d avoid them both
This past weekend, we pulled the trigger on a 2010 Chevy Malibu LTZ with the 3.6 V6.
110,000 miles, a couple of minor dents but it drives like a new car AND it drives completely unlike the appalling previous two generations.
Seller was asking $5500, we got it for $4925. First National Bank of Momendad is financing at zero interest.
It’s our oldest son’s ride, he’s not all that car-savvy but he’s learning and the two rides he’s had so far have given an engaging driving experience: Peak Subaru (a ’92 Legacy wagon) and Peak Honda (’93 Accord SE).
Both cars had been a ball to drive, I’m happy to say the ‘Bu continues that tradition. I could see owning one except my ’02 Tahoe is better suited to my needs.
The 3.6 has huge reliability problems, especially the cam chains.
I heard about that issue on the early engines. Has GM fixed it yet or is this Northstar 2.0?
It’s disappointing that GM can’t get timing chains to function correctly after 100+ years or so.
They “fixed” it by redesigning a bunch of parts (meaning parts commonality year to year on the 3.6 is almost nil) and throwing new 3-letter engine codes at it approximately every other model year, but the chains go on pretty much all of them from ’03 (or whenever the CTS came out) up through at least 2014. And the 6 speed auto in the Malibu is a fatally flawed design, too. Add in the self-destructing interior trim and papier-mache front suspension and doorsill rust issues… Shame, because the 6 cylinder versions drove pretty well when new, and the body looks quite good still (I think). And also get ready for $150 headlight bulbs. Whole front bumper must be completely removed for a bulb change, and they burn out often due to GM’s cheap headlight gasketry.
Thank you. I really like and want to recommend the Chevy Traverse and Buick Enclave. But I think I will keep recommending the Telluride and Palisade instead.
I have driven both, and I wouldn’t buy either. Buying any car with 170,000 miles is a gamble if is not a Camry. A CPO Accord would really be worth the extra money, although I not exactly enamoured by a car this big.
On a recent trip to the USA, I found used cars expensive and new cars relatively cheap. Perhaps it is to do with credit worthiness, but if one’s credit is good, there are loads of good deals out there.
It is opposite in Canada. Used cars are relatively cheap and due to our strong economy, new cars getting more expensive. This is especially true of “trucks,” which have truly shocking sticker prices for what the are-ancient technology. Two of the major brands even have push rod motors.
Or if it isn’t a Volvo.
I routinely purchase 20+ year old Volvos with well over 150,000 miles on them. My strategy is this – to only buy said Volvos in a private sale from their original owners, and only if they have been serviced at the dealership their entire lives. And I never pay more than $2000 for these cars.
Also, I won’t buy any Volvo newer than 2000 – that’s my cut-off point. Pre-2000 Volvos, especially 240s and 940s, are so reliable that it isn’t funny.
They also drive like tanks.
Gosh, neither option is all that great. I’m gonna choose the Hyundai since it will probably keep running long after I’m sick of it like a 2000s Saturn that is used up and annoying, but won’t quit. I see too many 15 year old or newer Nissans in the junkyard to want the Altima.
I have a hard time with the idea that anything with over 150k miles on it is a good buy at anything over 2500 unless it is relatively new and has piled on a lot of salesman’s freeway miles. But here you are looking at “New York highway miles” which would strike me as being harder on the car than miles from less populated and/or less salt-infested regions.
These cars are too new for my sweet spot. New cars with high miles are more expensive than older cars with lower miles. There are still some elderly owners out there who believe that they are pushing their luck beyond 100K, and those cars (at around 15+ years old) can be a really attractive buy if they have been well kept and maintained. But none of them are Hyundais or Nissans – they are all Toyotas, Buicks or Mercurys.
My wife and I have owned a ’14 Altima SV since early 2015. It’s been a very good car for us. Reliable, comfortable and efficient.
I believe this generation Altima uses a redesigned CVT from Jatco and we run ours in Sport mode all the time to try to get around the trans shortcomings of lugging the engine.
Knock on wood, it’s been a good car though my wife is eyeing a Toyota hybrid replacement in the next 2-3 years.
Yours does use a different CVT than the 2007-2012 model. Both have been problematic. The pattern shown in Ed’s CR table is worrying–a big uptick in the problem rate for 2013 when the new CVT was introduced, followed by a tail of declining problem rates in new model years. The problem is, that doesn’t mean the 2015 and 2016 won’t also see increased problem rates in 2-3 years when they are as old and have as many miles on them as the 2013s and 14s do now.
We don’t know what the actual problem rate is, but it was bad enough in 2013 that it made news for hurting the company’s profit margins:
https://www.autonews.com/article/20131202/OEM10/312029972/nissan-presses-jatco-to-end-cvt-glitches
I’d do frequent fluid changes on your 2014 and have a frank conversation with your Nissan service manager about being notified of any signs of transmission stress so you have time to bail out.
Good call! Even though Nissan says these feature lifetime trans fluid, my plan is to change out it out once we hit 50,000 mi.
Also, we live in flat central Iowa – I’ve heard extreme hills and mountains really tax these CVTs. I’m hoping that helps, too.
I doubt I would touch it at 50k. Most owners who do a service at 60k and up ruin their CVTs. If you’re at 50k, you’re most likely along for the ride. I have seen a 2008 with 297k on the original, but most seem to last 80-120 on their factory fill. Some less. Very few last longer than 120k. And Nissan went from lifetime fill, to 60k service, to now a quiet 30k recommendation. Which might mean it lasts. But nobody (NOBODY) ever services a Nissan CVT that often. So who knows.
Family member uses a 2010 2.5 CVT Altima for Uber, it just hit 130k. Owned since new, recently replaced engine oil cooler seals. It gets aged out the end of this year, 10 years is limit here, some areas 15 years is the limit. Its been trouble free to this point, hope it holds up a few more months. Runs and drives well, everything except brake and tires original.
Since I want to avoid the Toyonda tax and the PNW Subaru tax, I’d take the third way and look for a Mazda. Since I live in the PNW salt and concomitant rust are non-issues. I’ve bought 2 year old cars with 50,000 miles and done mostly well but I’d be wary of newish cars with super high mileage unless the service records are present and correct
“Is this a situation where buyers would need to pick their poison?”
Yes. This is an automotive roulette wheel.
For me, the first step would be to make an educated guess on whether the Theta II engine or the Jatco CVT are more likely to go out on you, both in general and in the specific car for sale. Research symptoms of each and have a mechanic look them over in a pre-purchase inspection. Either failure will be spectacularly expensive–the CVT is about $4500 and I imagine the Hyundai’s engine even more so.
If the odds are even, I’d just pick the one with the better front seats and start putting money away into a serious repair fund just in case.
Both are a bit of a step down from what I’m driving now depite being 10 years newer and less mileage, both are autos that off putting to start with, I’d gamble on the Hyundai, just to avoid the awful CVT.
Neither is appealing, but more surprising to me is the reliability data and the comments about high mileage. I was naively under the impression that most cars post-1990 or so, with the exception of a few well-known examples, could easily last 200K miles assuming decent service history for fluids etc. I mean, we sold our ‘93 Corolla with 100K miles for about $5K over ten years ago; lower miles of course, but still that’s almost $9K today (US dollars). Stick shift though 😀
Vehicle reliability has absolutely been regressing for at least 10 years now.
Never ever a Nissan. They use their customers as lab rats to debug unproven technology. Their suspensions and transmissions have high failure rates. Their ADAS technology does not work. They are butt ugly. And their corporate ethics are lacking.
As Slow Joe Crow suggests, get a Mazda. They have very enjoyable driving dynamics, are economical, have very good build quality, and are the best looking cars among the Japanese choices. The only two eyes-wide-open critiques are road noise intrusion (turn up the radio) and an aversion to road salt. Mazda is only hampered by its weak dealer network.
“Mazda is only hampered by its weak dealer network.”
So, if they only build more dealers they can catch up to everyone else in sales? Why hasn’t anyone at Mazda corporate thought of this after 3+ decades here? Mazda’s down 7.3% year over year in a market that lost only 1.2%. Did they shut down 6.1% of their dealers?
My mother has a 2012 Hyundai Sonata Limited, which I’ve mentioned here, in that same gray color. Hers is the base 2.4-liter and not the turbocharged 2.0-liter, but it does have leather, keyless access and start, satellite radio, navigation and a panoramic sunroof.
I am not impressed with how it has held up at about 120K miles, and wouldn’t buy one. Nor would I buy a 2013-2018 Nissan Altima. The design is frumpy and the CVT drives awfully. Somehow, Honda, Ford, Subaru and Toyota were able to make CVTs that didn’t have that rubber-band effect, but Nissan is only just now getting it together.
My pick for a cheap midsize sedan would be a 2012 Volkswagen Passat. But you knew that already. There’s also the 2010-2012 Ford Fusion, which was handsome and no-nonsense in a refreshing kind of way. It was also among the best drivers in its class, and still offered thoughtful touches like a reversing camera, blind-spot monitoring, voice commands and Bluetooth audio streaming.
I wouldn’t touch the Nissan. Their transmissions stink. The repair record confirms that.
After thoughtful consideration of the posed question, I regret to inform the commentariat that nary a tickle, nor a trace of any other minor irritation, has been detected at or adjacent to my fancy.
Mazda 6:)
This is a no-brainer. The Altima CVT fails about every 60k and Nissan’s attitude is Tough Sh*t. So you can spend $5k that often for the pleasure of driving… an Altima.
The Sonata isn’t perfect, but aside from the (major) engine issue, they are well made and have relatively few issues as they age. They are also made out of real metal instead of paper thin tin, like most Nissans since 2002. And Hyundai RECALLED the 2.4, which means free fix with a loaner if it goes. Almost no questions asked. And at least at first, H-K were giving out lifetime unlimited mile warranties with the replacements.
Sorry – I just don’t like either car. The Hyundai drives like a school bus and the Altima isn’t reliable.
Family member has had good service from his 2010 Altima, 2.5 CVT. At 130k miles now, owned since new. Uses it for Uber, ages out end of this year. Only problem was engine oil cooler seals were replaced recently, other then brakes and tires no other service problems. Hopefully it will last until the end of this year, runs and drives well.