Well here’s something you don’t see everyday.(ED: that’s an understatement. I’ve never heard of the V-Drive, or have long since forgotten about it. It’s a very innovative approach, and only some 1600 GM and Ford vans ever used it.) Not only is it a 4×4 School van but, it’s a Dana V-Drive 4×4! For those of you not familiar with the V-Drive system here is a picture of the underside of one.
And if you want the technical stuff here is a link to the original patent application: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3814201.pdf. (ED: the point of it was to allow drive to the front wheels while still retaining the independent front suspension, and stock ride height, instead of the solid front axles that were typical for 4×4 conversion vans)
The van belongs to Mr. Williams of Albany, OR who bought it from a man in Gold Hill, OR; the same place my 4×4 Chevy van came from! It was originally built for a Minnesota School district as evidenced by the rust. Having grown up in Minnesota and endured many a hairy school bus trip, I can attest to the need for such a van.
Mr. Williams also received the original manuals for the four-wheel-drive system and all the service and purchase records when he bought it. A pretty dang good find!
A lovely shade of government Interior Green (Federal Standard #24585) adorns the inside.
It seems to be running find and the V-Drive seems to be in working condition.
As you can see the previous owner spent a lot of time on the paint (to each his own I guess).
Better paint job than the other van you posted.
Can you say it is ready to turn a new leaf? (sorry!)
1600 made, and worth $120 for scrap if anything breaks being that rare.
I know about the Dana V drive set up. It was originally intended for cars and there were a few early 70’s full size Fords built as test mules. I was completely unaware however that they had actually produced any that were sold.
It was not an entirely new concept however. A few years ago I was at the local historic races and I saw a 30’s era car with a similar V drive set up to run it’s IRS. At this point I don’t remember what kind of car it was though.
You’re right. But what makes it different than earlier versions is that it has a differential for the front axle built into the transfer case, as well as a having the provision for the second differential for the rear axle. The inventor basically updated an existing idea to make it compatible for modern 4WD.
That’s right. I saw a 1972 write-up in either Popular Mechanics or Popular Science – as a tease for the coming full-time four-wheel-drive systems to be launched by GM and Borg-Warner (Quadra-Trac).
The article contained photos of a Ford full-size station wagon equipped with this vee-drive. My first thought – and I was 13 years old! – was that it had three times the weight of a standard driveline; and two-thirds for the front wheels.
I’d love to know what other rigs, if any, were so equipped. And whether there were or are kits out there.
Interesting. Up here in Truckee we have a good number of Ford Sportsmobile and Quigley conversion vans with a precariously high center of gravity. One of the backcountry snowmobile guide services even has one that has been converted to a dually. The GM Savanna/Express is the only factory 4WD van.
The Express is All Wheel Drive, being that it does not have a two speed transfer case. The only factory 4×4 van ever offered in the States is the Toyota Van with manual transmission. I drove two AWD Express’s and both had the transmission go out on them.
Right now I have an 86′ Chev 1 ton 4×4 van done up by LRP. It’s a strait axle front D44. It is actually about the same ride height as any one tonner.
There’s a very similar looking van at the bodyshop/scrap yard at the bottom of the hill from my house. Wonder if I could get close enough to see the badges? (With the mud we get every winter and the proximity to Colorado I could see a district buying these.)
You gotta look!
Damn, i looked and it’s just a regular one although it’s got a half ton ride hight.
Here is a link to the patent for the system with diagrams and describing how it works. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3814201.pdf
Wow you learn something new everyday here, never seen that set up before
That’s really wild! It isn’t every day I learn of something I 100% didn’t know of before.
Sure seems like a lot of trouble, though. Wouldn’t a stretched 4×4 Suburban make more sense or something?
Also on the note of weird 4×4 systems, I want to ask if anyone knows what I saw 20 years ago with a piece of heavy equipment: It had a more or less traditional rear differential, and out at the rear wheels it had gearboxes and driveshafts running from either rear wheel up to either front wheel, so the front wheels had no diff, they just turned if each rear wheel turned. What did I see???
Gold Hill OR!!!!! Ol’ Ken Kesey’s neck of the woods.
Ken lived in Pleasant Hill, just outside Eugene, unless he spent some time in Gold hill too.
Gold Hill seems to be old hippie miners mostly, from what I’ve seen thus far
Any idea how the system actually worked in practice? Looks like it might have been overly complicated and prone to (expensive) failure.
Still a pretty cool concept, though.
It’s explained here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Y3Dkp0Pi0FkC&pg=PA75&dq=dana+vee+drive+four+wheel+drive+popular&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DbDuTtmONuPX0QHXy4iOBg&ved=0CEgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
That’s a long URL, so you’ll have to cut-and-paste in pieces. But Popular Science apparently has its library up on Google Books for free…May 1972, Jim Dunne.
Cool!
Well, it’s still working on this unit. It is Dana/Spicer after all.
And this is why I love the curbsideclassic website: discovering and learning about inventions like this that I’d otherwise never know existed. Absolutely fascinating.
It actually runs fairly nice, alot smoother ride than some other vehicals I have driven, the only problems i’ve had is the rear u-joint needs replaced (which is a easy and inexpensive fix, especially with the clearence), and the engine needs a tune up and some exhaust tacked on (The RUST ate through it).
Nice to see you on here Keegan. Let me know if you need any help with it.
Hi folks, hi Kegan! hi Michael, i also bought a Chevy Van G30 Vx4 one year ago. This car was used as a firetruck in Switzerland for almost 30 years. It has a very low mileage, just 13,500mls, very clean, no rust. The Vemco Vx4 V-Drive is being installed. I need some parts for the front axis, e.g. a rubber bearing and cardan joint.
Can you help me with a copy of the manual???
I read that Burrell`s Service Inc sell parts, but a letter, which i sent came back with a note “unknown” adress. Can’t reach the telephone number. A neighbour told me, that he has passed away. No more details…
Who can help????
Andreas,
I’ve e-mailed Kegan, who owns/owned this van, asking to if he has a manual to share with you. I gave him your e-mail. I don’t know if he does or not.
(Update: that e-mail failed….)
Good luck with your V-Drive!
Paul
I recently purchased a 1978 ford vemco rv, if you need parts, let me know. thanks.
Seth
1-910-376-9740
Do any of you guys happen to know if you can run a v-drive without a rear drive shaft? I know you can’t do this with t-cases that have a viscous coupler like Chevy AWD vans.
one pic more
Any chance I can get in touch with the owner of this beast.
I have a 78 chevy van with the v-drive system. The front end has a leak that I haven’t been able to fix. I purchased it from my father who had been in contact with the son of the inventor of the system. The son was able to send my father a seal but it didn’t fix the problem. I have reached out to the son and have been looking for other owners of the v-drive system to see if they have had similar issues and have a solution.
Thank you.
I have a dana vemco v drive for sale or trade.
http://austin.craigslist.org/bar/5338894459.html
Do you still have the v drive for sale?
Ken
714-702-4780
FYI. Link is dead. (404).
Well…yes, because the link was to a Craigslist ad placed in 2015.
I am the new owner of this bus. I am looking for part numbers to the wheel/axle bearings. I have the documentation that came with the bus but does not list part numbers for the wheel hub area even though these parts are exclusive to these GMC’s with the vx4 system. I would also be interested in buying other spare vdrive components just to keep her running as long as possible. I just had a irreplaceable drive line piece strip its teeth and had to weld the pieces back together. 503-334-6757
I probably have Vemco service manuals and might be able to help?
Hey Bill, is there any indication whether or not you can run a v-drive without a rear axle? I know you can’t do this on other AWD systems like Chevy vans as you will quickly fry the viscous coupler.
i doubt you can because of an open diff that drives the front wheels pull the rear shaft and i think all the power will go there just like any open diff the side that loses traction get all the power
Here’s the link for a Vx4 that just showed up in Seattle Craigslist. http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/cto/5666231432.html
FYI. Link is dead. (404).
Hi my name is Andy cool van the auto museum i work for would be very interested in buying the van . it is the only museum based on engineering .. please email me even if your not interested in selling it .would love to talk about the van . thank you very much hope to here from you.
I have a very nice VX4 van for sale if your interested.
I had a buddy in high school that drove a van with this system. I was thinking about it the other day and low a behold a quick Google search brought me to your site. Very cool! I remember as kids we were looking under his rig trying to figure out how it worked with the two front differentials. His van was full time 4WD so it wasn’t much fun to rally but he still tried spinning brodies. I recall it wasn’t much if any taller than a regular 2WD van. I’m sure that van is lost to time as it was rusting out in the 80’s.
I have a 1976 Chevy Van 30. I bought it new from a dealer in Memphis TN. It is in good running condition and driven by me as an everyday ride.