When I spotted this new arrival in my neighborhood, its new owner was mostly inside the trunk, working on replacing an electrical connector for one of the tail lights of this Audi 200 Turbo Quattro he had just bought for $700. I don’t usually shoot the owners of curbside classics, but he and his girlfriend, who was rubbing out some stains on the hood, were so enthusiastic, as well as already quite knowledgeable, that I asked if they wanted to be in the photo with their new pride and joy. Of course! Now if I could only remember their names…(Update: their names are Layne and Ella, and it’s actually her car). But seeing someone so young in love with their newly acquired old car (and each other) was the bright spot in one of the first gray and drizzly days of many to come here. This Audi, probably older than either of them, has found the perfect new home.
C3 Audis are getting scarce, and this is a nicely kept one. It was a one-owner car, which is saying something right there, but even then, it has a few infirmities that are being attended to. Mostly they’re electrical gremlins, like the instrument cluster, which is going to need the wire terminals re-soldered to bring it back to life. The new owner has done his homework quickly, thanks to forums on the web, and rattled off the weaknesses that these cars exhibit and their fixes.
After Audi’s UA near-death experience in the US with the 5000, it renamed them with Euro-style nomenclature in 1989, as the 100 and 200, for the turbo version. By this time the forced-induction 2.2 L five cylinder was rated at 162 hp. Doesn’t sound like much today, but at the time, it was a swift sedan with the benefit of all wheel drive to enhance traction, braking and overall balance. The Quattro was a repeat visitor to C/D’s 10 Best list.
This is where the current repair was being implemented. A trailer light harness adapter had gone haywire, and needed some ministrations. The instrument panel re-soldering was high on the To-Do list.
I was also shown these two Audi Quattro Coupe wheels that came with the car, which the new owner thought were worth half the price of the 200 alone. Good thing the wheels didn’t get damaged when the tire shredded.
I asked about the Audi’s mechanical condition, and was told it ran well, except for a a clunk in the driveline, the exact source as of yet unknown. There’s probably several possible sources, given the four wheel drive, but what’s to be expected from a 27 year old Audi Quattro? These cars require an active relationship with its owner, and this one has found just that.
Having been involved with the local Audi 200 Turbo Quatro scene here in Austria, I can confirm these are v e r y reliable cars given proper maintenance; what is more, the later 20V engines are capable of producing high hp again, reliably. Back at home I have some pictures of a car we did years ago which demonstrates what is available. If you ever find out the names of the owner, feel free to give him my e-mail (parts are probably easier to obtain here than in the US).
Is this where we define “proper maintenance” as “replacing everything that breaks?”
You are looking at a 27 year old vehicle, which means you have to Keep on top of things, yes. But the main components (engine, box, diffs, drive shafts) are bullet proof if you keep on top of oil changes, use correct anti-freeze etc. The electronics are very simple compared to what you have on a modern car so not beyond own maintenance. I realize lots of cars had a completely different reputation here and in the US, and this is one of them…
Hi there
I own an 89 200 Quattro and am looking for a Turbo I take hose as mine is cracked.
Saw you post from a 2015 article.
Thanks
John
I hope this this couple is able to get this nice Audi working for them. It really was one of the most influential cars of the eighties and the manual Quattro turbo version is the C3 as it was meant to be. I suspect of time $700 for one of these will prove to be a great investment that pays the great dividend of driving excellence.
The reputation of Mr. Piech as taken a turn for the worse lately with the diesel woes and perhaps him hanging around to long. The eighties Quattro system was really him at his best though. The technical sophistication that was added by the system went a long way to getting Audi up there with MB and BMW. I wonder if the halo effect of the system was the goal all along as from an engineering point of view, more traction was hardly necessary as the cars were always front wheel drive.
Yes the Quattro system tamed the turbo’s overpowering the front drive chassis, but the small 5 cylinders did more to hold the car back as V6 and V8 were possible and necessary with the longditudinal engine arrangement and upscale ambitions.
John, the 5 cyl is probably the better option if you want reliable hp… But a V8 was available also.
Weren’t the 5’s with their radiators off to the side much more apt to overheat. One heard about this more with the early 5000s in USA. A Road and Track long term wrapup thing said the radiators were only good for 40,000 miles. The way features and ever higher turbo outputs were added in later years, they must have overcome this.
I’ve run 5s in Australia in the past, both turbo and non and can report no problems with cooling.
KJ in Oz
Yes, they overheated at the drop of a hat (mine was an earlier 200 FWD from ’83 rated at 170hp/120kw) …I recall the nightmare of trying to replace a crook thermostat ..it was very difficult to access ..also the injectors were prone to overheating and had a strange overhead cooling/venting arrangement that fell off due to the light construction, and hence ‘cooked’ injectors —sorry, never again. I found Audis just too lightly engineered and not durable automobiles. Three years from new and 130,000 kms was all they were good for in my experience, having owned at various times 4 of them 🙁
More traction? Well you’d need more traction for winter use with a front driver, I guess. What they really needed it for was to get some chance of having a forward slung longitudinal iron block five front driver compete with the vastly superior chassis balance rear drive (and a more rear mounted engine) allow.
Also in the harsh German winters you’d really need traction at the rear wheels, rather than the inferior capabilities of front wheel drive.
Btw: I can’t believe Piech was involved in the cheat. The man is much too arrogant and self loving to engage in cheating when throwing too much money and engineering prowess at it would solve the problem.
Here’s the one I did for a friend… Back then he had the engine up to 450 hp and drove it every day. Top speed with the 6sp box from the V8 was measured courtesy of the German police as 325 Km/H (they charged him € 300 for this). Plan is now to build a 700 hp engine…
Splendid ! A big, black power sedan. Just the way I like them.
I like the young couple’s Audi too, it seems to be in a good condition. You can still see the Audi 80 from the late eighties-early ninities quite regularly. And not as rusty beaters, these cars have excellent rust proofing and were very well built.
Check out my DD.
Greetings to Poland !
1.8 gasoline ? diesel ?
Interesting that you still see 80/90 regularly; they must have sold better there. While I will still see 5000/100/200 series cars occastionally, and facelift 90 sedans rarely, it’s been quite a long time since I’ve seen an 80 or an original 90 on the road here.
Certainly, the 1986 Audi 80 series (B3) was a very successful car in Northwestern Europe. For most buyers it must have been their first Audi.
Striking, as I said, is the quality of the body and paint these more than 25 years old cars still have. Below a 1987 Audi 80 1.8S in a very popular color, for sale for € 2,450. Most Audis 80 (both the B3 and later B4) must have gone to Eastern and Central Europe in their later life.
These were high-quality and long-lasting D-segment cars. Period.
Those are very good cars and also capable of reaching Methuselah-like mileages.
I had a 1988 80, boy did I love that car. Did have one major problem tho, very erratic idle, could never get it fixed (though I spent a lot of money trying.) It had been in a bad front end collision prior to my owning it and I always wondered if that might’ve had something to do with it…
some more…
Here’s some more…
For those who ask it IS a 200. But we grafted V8 body parts all round, including very tight shut lines etc.
I admire folks who can carry out this kind of jobs. Mechanical and body work, fantastic. I wish I had those skills.
Hah: It ruins your body though…
Those German speeding tickets strike me as real values!
I received a love letter by the Barockstadt Rastatt prompting me to pay 35 Euros for doing like 70 kmh in a 50kmh zone.
The Boone County Sheriff only charged $110 all inclusive for 68 mph in a 55 zone.
My hat is off to these two for several reasons, not least of which is that they are doing this as a couple. I find something noble in finding a very nice example of a car with a troubled reputation and diving into it with love and enthusiasm. I hope that the Audi repays their enthusiasm with a uniquely enjoyable motoring experience.
Mine too. My wife and I do almost everything together – even run a business. But working on my old Benz together? World war 3.
Neat car. I had a 91 100s quattro for awhile, and while it was underpowered, the interior was beautifully finished and the seats were really comfy. That thing was a beast in wet or snowy weather. I don’t think they tend to rust either.
The fuel economy was nothing special, given how aerodynamic it was…I have to assume the quattro system didn’t help on that front, and I imagine the car was heavier than it should have been.
Congrats to this young couple on their new purchase…I hope they enjoy it for a long time.
It’s the annoying little things that will kill you with an old Audi. I bought an ’86 5000 back in ’93. The best thing about it was the paint quality, and the powertrain (3 speed auto unfortunately) was solid. But the AC never worked, the power accessories broke with regularity, and the chrome trim strips on the windows all started curling up. Sure, I bought it used with 80K for less than $5000. You get what you pay for. But after a year or so I didn’t see any end to these stupid problems, and just traded it in for a new Acura Integra GS-R. Today I’d love to get an Audi A7/S7 but I’m still gunshy about German reliability as these insanely complex cars age. I guess that’s why most people lease them.
You had an ’86…that’s part of the problem. Your story is similar to my family’s in some regards; Dad purchased an ’86 5000S in 1994, I think at least partly based on my enthusiasm for the car (I was 13 at the time). Seemed a good value at $4000 and when we bought it, everything worked. Lovely car in Nautical Blue with tan leather. However, that car quickly gained us a very close relationship with the local German auto specialist–just about everything electrical that could go wrong, did, short of having to replace the main harness. The mechanic told us that they used three different wiring layouts in ’86 and ours was the midyear “transition” model, the worst of the three. Perhaps yours was too. We hung in there for 4 years, but by ’98 it was gone, replaced by an older but much more reliable Accord.
And yet I was sad to see it go. But I wasn’t the one paying for repairs! Would still love to have another someday.
The ’86 Audi 5000 had three main harness layouts in one year??? That would explain a lot of things including why Dad’s ’87 5000 was a much more reliable car than mine. His transmission went out at about 100K but the guy he bought it from (for peanuts) had a transferrable extended warranty which covered the repair. Other than that it was a good but boring car.
I wouldn’t touch a newer VW or Audi on a bet…just the whole concept of needing to use expensive 5w40 VW-friendly motor oil so the damn engine doesn’t sludge-up and go kaboom is enough to turn me off…older ones like this, on the other hand, don’t scare me nearly as much. If I could find a decent 90 or 100 from the early 90s I’d drive it.
What an outstanding car, and it’s great to see one being maintained and enjoyed (…or about to be enjoyed, once the repairs are done).
If I’m not mistaken, the wheel in the trunk is the original wheel for the 1989 200 Quattro — the wheels that are on the car look like those from an earlier 5000.
I have a lot of affection for Audis of this era since I once owned a 1981 Coupe, and at the time aspired to buy a late-80s Quattro like this some day. After the UA debacle, the prices of used Audis plummeted, which was a golden opportunity to buy a used Audi for very cheap, which is what I did.
I wish these folks lots of luck with their car — great story!
The wheels in the trunk are possibly from an Audi 90 20v but probably the original wheels for the 200 itself. The concurrently offered Coupe Quattro 20v of ’90-’91 only ever came with the 6-spoke Speedline wheels. The wheels on the 200 currently are the Ronal R8 and very appropriate for any early quattro.
Nice 200, good to see youngsters getting into it. Judging by his t-shirt he’ll be plenty capable of handling the electrical work. If they keep on top of it, that’ll be a great car for many years to come.
The body is in fantastic condition. The trunked is a little out of whack, but that’s likely only because the wheels in the trunk are getting in the way. Any idea the mileage on it?
One caveat though, the hitch mount. I looked at a second generation Cadillac CTS last year and was interested until I spotted one. No idea just how often it pulled something heavy, taking a tool on the driveline and brakes.
Great story! This reminds me a lot of my first C3 project about three years ago, when my girlfriend (now wife) and I spent many hours together sorting out electrical gremlins and buffing out oxidized Tornado Red paint on a 1991 100. I can’t say she grew to love these cars… I think after the fourth T44 I bought she stopped getting involved, but still very supportive of my Audi obsession.
My daily-driver 100 has traveled well north of 500K by now, and my Sunday-driver 100 just hit 62K, but at first glance you’d struggle to tell which one has the higher mileage. These are very robust mechanically, and paint/interior quality is top-notch. The little things like switches or electrical are the only real drawbacks, but even then not difficult to fix. As with any car, proper maintenance is key.
I wish these two all the best with their Audi, they’ll have a great time with it!
…but what’s to be expected from a 27 year old Audi Quattro? These cars require an active relationship with its owner.
An active relationship with the owner. That’s the funniest euphemism for POS I’ve heard in ages. These cars were dreadful, reliability-wise, when new, and the intervening 27 years are unlikely to have enhanced matters. I’m impressed with these youngsters’ daring, but suspect they are in way over their heads.
Funny, no one is denying that these require care and feeding in excess of what you would expect with, say, a Japanese car of the same era. The DIY types are saying that it is a fun, solid vehicle to mess with; the non DIY types are saying run away. If I were going to DIY this car I think that I would find a complete parts car–sourcing used parts on ebay, etc is going to be a PITA and more expensive.
The only way I’d own one of these cars is if I were a master Audi/VW mechanic myself.
Getting in way over your head is sometimes a good way to learn how to do the work though, no? Plus if they’re students it might not be strictly required as daily transportation, which helps.
Also note that Paul mentioned its being a one-owner car. If it was a lemon or a total pile, it’s unlikely the original owner would have held onto it for 26+ years, don’t you think?
Sure, real VW/Audi owners are dedicated to a fault. They know and expect certain items to fail. I know families who are dedicated to older VW/Audi products and can keep their cars running indefinitely. But it becomes a way of life at that point – a “Zen and the Art of Audi Maintenance” mindset. As I lack any serious mechanical ability, I just buy Japanese cars and drive them for years with minimal maintenance. And yet I have the nerve to call myself a car enthusiast!
All the best for this couple and their Audi. I hope we can see some updates in the near and distant future!
And let’s hope the update isn’t “We gave up, sold the Audi for scrap, and bought a used Civic like everyone else!”
I mean, that’s what I would have done, and basically did after just 1 year or so.
Nice to see young owners not shy away from doing their own repairs to reap a bargain basement price for such a fine car.. Ha! who am I preaching to here?
Me! I own a 2001 A6, and love it. Basic wrenching isn’t hard on Audis, and mine has been very reliable. A lot of people are scared of German cars, so they’re a very good bargain.
I’d have another one!
Back in my pizza delivery days, a co-worker used one of these for delivery. Him and his car had the same umm, erratic personality traits. The car couldn’t go a week month without something new breaking, it was a never-ending battle and he wouldn’t give up. He wasn’t mechanically inclined so he was constantly bringing it to his sketchy, cash only German mechanic who was probably fleecing him. It was the saddest looking Audi I’ve ever seen. There were times when it wouldn’t run but he needed money to fix it so he would rent a car just to keep working. It was probably the worst car one could have picked for pizza delivery.
Sadly, that’s soured my view on these things but I wish this young couple the best of luck.
I bought an ’86 Audi 5000 used at three years old with low miles. It was a killer deal and I had the 5-speed but it wasn’t all roses. It had the same curling chrome trim that Greg mentioned and electrical gremlins that kept my A/C from working. It was one little thing after another like many have said.
What separated the Audi from the other German cars I’ve owned is that the upkeep was no less (more actually) but there was no payback in driving pleasure like the others gave me.
My Audi 5000 felt no better than the VW Dasher on which it was based. The dimensions were slightly larger and the car had more power but the platform and layout were almost the same. Actually it felt worse than a Dasher because the C3’s heavier engine way out front gave more understeer and brake dive. The dive was at an astounding level and far worse than American cruisers from the era like my Cadillac where a long wheelbase and engine placement behind the front wheel help enormously. The Audi’s short wheelbase, narrow track, primitive suspension and soft tuning gave it the moves of a drunk person. I dumped my C3 after a year.
Have a hard time seeing how anyone could “obsess” over a C3 non-Quattro or one with the 3-speed A/T. Sure there are some but can’t be many hence the tiny number of Audis you see on the road and at car shows.
It’s either that or the durability was much worse than some would have you believe. My own experience is that it’s the former and latter in equal measure. Very pretty car though.
As for the brake and gas pedals they were too close and therefore dangerous. Audi should thank 60 Minutes for the distraction. After it was found out that owners weren’t pressing the gas 60 Minutes looked bad and somehow Audi got a pass from auto scribes for pedals too close. Someone made an arrogant decision on that, possibly the same guy that decided on the diesel emission trick.
Yeah, calibrick I forgot about the lousy handling, brake dive, etc. Then there was some serious bump steer. I recall taking an entrance ramp at, shall we say, a spirited clip something north of the posted limit. I hit a big chuckhole right around the turn apex, and the entire front end of the car bounced up, moved 7 inches horizontally to the left towards the guardrail. That’s when I began to suspect some of the rave reviews I read in R&T might have been a bit enthusiastic.
Regarding the styling, which also received rave reviews… While it was and still is undeniably clean and sleek, there is a lot of front/rear/side overhang. When they added wheel flares for the next generation 100/200 series and widened the stance, that helped a bit.
I hit a guardrail coming off a ramp in my Audi too! It was New Year’s Eve on the way to the party, not after. The speed was slow and the road wet. There was zero grip from the bicycle tires they used on the car, just a slow motion understeer into the rail. Here’s the kicker… the next morning I checked for damage expecting little as just the bumper hit the rail and it popped out. But I found the hood was off and made contact with the fender near the windshield. Not a very stout structure.
The appearance of the narrow track bothered me like crazy and I agree the car got much nicer looking when they widened that and rounded out the rear wheel opening. That first S4 was a beauty.
I didn’t actually hit the guardrail, but I’ve never had a car act that way in a corner. Maybe my struts were shot.
Well you are lucky I think I had frame damage from that 5-10mph tap. I’ve wondered the same thing, were my front struts shot? Could they be after just three years?
I think it was more that the tuning had to be set up soft to offer ride quality competitive with Volvo, MB, etc. and that combined with the engine placement and low-spec suspension design made it feel spastic. There is just so much you can do with a simple suspension. You put in firmer shocks/springs to deal with the dive the competitors don’t have and you end up with unacceptable ride quality.
The FWD Audi 5000 would handle as you describe as it has a lot of weight bias ahead of the front axle and just had a solid beam rear axle.
When pushing it in a curve the front end will break loose and wash out very suddenly.
However the Audi 5000 Quattro had better weight distribution, independent rear suspension, and all wheel drive even when unlocked. With a set of 16″ wheels (A4 wheels in my case) and nice set of tires (Michelin Exalto) the car is amazing in the twisties for the car’s size. You just need to downshift and power through the curve. If your speed in the curve gets too high it will give good feedback at the limit and gradually break-away evenly both front and rear.
If it’s wet out, lock the center differential and nothing can touch you in the curves.
I had a 2wd for a couple of years (and wish I never sold it) – I did not notice any handling deficiencies. Yes, it is a FWD vehicle which tends to push in the corners but that is to be expected. And if you want really precise handling from a 2wd there are some not too extensive changes you can make (28 mm sway bar from the V8, Eibach springs, uprated shock absorbers and a suspension brace at the front).
Hi there! Wonderful to see Our newest member of the family here. My girlfriend Ella owns this car and we work on it together. After a few fruitful hours of toiling on the speedometer issue this morning I’m happy to report it’s repaired and we (and more importantly the cars computer) are able to once again see how fast we’re going. I love all the feedback in the comments here and this is definitely and enthusiasts car these days, the vehicle came with all service records and from what I can tell the speedometer stopped working 14 years ago and the owner took it to multiple shops and none ever repaired it. We intend to continue to extinguish the vehicles list of quirks and use it as a daily driver. 🙂
You’ll love it, especially in the winter. quattro is like nothing else!
Layne, good luck to you and Ella with your newest family member. Many happy miles to you; and I hope you check back in with CC in the future regarding your Audi.
Hi Layne. Sorry; I didn’t get that Ella actually owns the car.
Sounds like you’re off to a good start with it. Enjoy!
Maybe I’ll run into you again one of these days. I live not too far away.
Welcome! Your speedo fix indicates that you are the right person to keep this car in viable every day service–have fun! I keep an E46 BMW going fairly effortlessly using web forums, youtube, ebay and internet parts retailers along with some ingenuity and desire. Anyone can lease a Camry–it takes someone special to keep one of these going.
Nice! And there you guys are, honing your problem solving skills.
Congrats on the purchase! Despite my family’s somewhat complex relationship with a 5000 years ago, I still love these cars and am very glad to see a nice example like this in the care of people who respect it and are bringing it back to the condition it deserves! Ours was the FWD 5000S…being a turbo and a quattro, I’ll bet this one is a much more engaging drive as well. Best of luck with the car and keep up the good work!
Layne, welcome to CC. If you are in need of info or parts I may be able to help as I’m still in touch with the Austrian Audi mafia.
Layne & Ella –
Hello and welcome to CC. We’re glad to have you with us. Congratulations on the purchase of your 1989 Audi 200Q Turbo, and kudos to the both of you for taking on a rare and somewhat complex vehicle that can be considered borderline exotic these days. To own one of these beasts takes a lot of time, care, and dedication – and it seems as if you are willing to give this car all of the above. I’m glad that you’re tackling the electrical issues now. Good luck to you.
I too am required to tinker on both of my rides whenever the need arises. The following photo is of the two “vintage” (by CC standards) Volvos I currently own – a 1989 740 GL and a 1994 850. I purchased both of these cars from their original owners within a 6-week span, and I paid much less than $1000 for both. Much like your 200Q Turbo, the 850 is a totally different animal from the old RWD “bricks” a lot of Volvo enthusiasts are used to. Even my Volvo specialist considers the 850 and other FWD Volvos to be “Audi-like” in terms of reliability and maintenance requirements. The 850, similar in vein to the C3 100/200 series, is a robust, durable car that can go hundreds of thousands of miles, thanks to bulletproof drivetrains. However, they do require that you stay on top of them if you want to accumulate ridiculously high mileage. The 740, on the other hand, is an extremely simple car to work on and maintain when compared to an 850 or even a C3 Audi. Since buying the 740, I have only had to change the oil, timing belt and water pump, which took less than an hour. In contrast, I’ve done a lot more to the 850 to make it a reliable driver.
Some couples go on Saturday afternoon drives hunting for antiques. Layne and Ella get to go through pick-n-pull yards hunting for electrical parts otherwise made of unobtanium. Why can’t any of my relationships be like that? 🙂
If marriage is the thing for you two someday, please let us know so we can all pitch in for a set of Hollander manuals for a wedding gift. With an old Audi you’ll need those more than some lame old set of pots and pans.
Vorsprung durch Technik!
Sadly, 1980s cars are getting much harder to find in any junkyard, pick-n-pull or otherwise. When I go out to pick-n-pull (which isn’t often any more), I marvel at all of the “new” cars sitting there!
I wish the new owners well. My only advice to Layne and Ella – after giving it a go for 6-12 months – step back and see if your time is worth it – if the car is taking up too much of your free time, sell it and get a used Prius. Then take all of that extra time and go hiking, biking, and whatever else you like to do. Life goes by all too quickly!
I spent the better part of the free time in my life thus far working on cars. I had a lot of fun doing so, but now have other priorities in my life and get more annoyed when I do have to repeatedly work on the same vehicle. YMMV
Very true. The yards around here are full of 3rd gen Tauruses, Mopar minivans and ’90s/early 2000s SUVs that survived C4C only to die later on their own.
I mentioned PNP yards because they’re the first thing I associate with an older Audi. Over the years I’ve known two people who owned some fine old Ingolstadt iron, and I’ve accompanied both of them on junkyard runs!
….if they are the type that has to depend on a mechanic. Someone with some DIY desire and skills like Layne should be just fine.
If we all made the most sensible choices, this forum wouldn’t exist. It’s almost as if you don’t realize that some people actually enjoy working on cars! And are willing to do their own work in exchange for owning something that makes you feel good every time you approach it in a parking lot…that is enjoyable to drive…that has that ‘special’ factor.
And besides. If you’re going to have a car with less than stellar reliability as a DD, when better to do so than when you’re young?
Looks like a well cared for example. I recently picked up a well cared for ’87 Jetta Gl that is a clone of my ’86, right down to paint and interior colors. Nobody knows if I’m driving the ’86 or the ’87. It also had one long term owner (and a clueless short timer who did a good job of messing up the brake system). Lucky the two of you are helping each other with it. Sometimes you really need 3 hands! I spent a little time in the trunk cleaning up tail lamp connectors due to a leaky lamp assembly full of water. It too came with repair records from new. I’ve been driving it all over the place for the last couple of months and it’s been trouble free since I sorted out the brakes and tail lamp connector. Paid $700 for mine as well. Nice car and good luck with it.