My favorite vintage coach took up residence in my neighborhood well over a year ago, and we still walk by it every few days. And clearly someone inside has made it their residence, including a little chimney that appears during the winter season. Got to stay warm.
I used to really want one of these in my younger days, before I realized that it was too big for where we like to go. So I’ll just admire it as we amble by, and imagine all the places it’s been in its long life. Was it a Greyhound bus? Or Trailways? Or one of the many other operators back then? The PD-4104, rightfully called “The Most Dominant and Influential Bus Ever” in Jim Brophy’s excellent Bus Stop Classic, was also extremely well built, so it’s not surprising folks are still using them, one way or another.
Let’s get my only gripe out of the way first: I’m not a fan of the driver’s door that was cut in as part of this conversion.
It defaces the very nicely-styled driver’s window, one the best details of this handsome bus. The short story is that the PD-4104 completely revolutionized the highway coach market when it arrived in 1953, with its air suspension, advanced styling, light weight monocoque body, and its exclusive 6-71 Detroit Diesel engine, which was lighter and more powerful than the competition. Every other coach instantly looked old-fashioned and obsolete.
And of course, it spawned the legendary Greyhound PD-4510 Scenicruiser, which obviously was essentially a lengthened PD-4104 with a lowered front section and raised rear. That led to some structural issues, and unlike the absolutely unblemished reputation of the 4101, the Scenicruiser had a rather rough start in its early days.
It’s very common to have the design of the Scenicruiser be attributed to Raymond Loewy, when stylistically it’s really just a chopped and stretched 4104. Loewy did design a couple of concepts for it, but the final version is essentially all GM Design.
These shots were taken last winter. The stove pipe came down in the spring, and has recently sprouted again.
Sadly this conversion eliminated all of the original windows. Oh well. I’ve seen some fine conversions that eliminated one, or maybe two, but not usually all of them. Not exactly very handsome anymore.
The gracefully curved rear window is gone too. Only the fluted lower body is mostly intact.
This is why I know what year it is. And that makes it the last year of its run, as the 4106 replaced it in 1961. We’ve yet to do a post on that, but it was essentially an updated 4104 with the new 8V-71 engine, which made it zippier, and also allowed the air conditioning to be run directly from the engine, instead of its own small pony engine in the 4104. The 6-71 didn’t have enough power to run the a/c directly and still maintain highway speeds.
Speaking of, this bus still has the original engine and four-speed manual transmission, as I did see it being driven off one day. It’s been a long time since I heard (and saw) a 6-71 and manual transmission bus take off. It’s not exactly a pretty sight, inasmuch as these buses were quite modestly powered with all of 210 hp on tap, and not a very low-geared first gear. Lots of noise, a fair bit of smoke, and a slow take-off. And then of course a substantial gap in acceleration, as the operator double-clutches into the non-syncro second gear. And then another bit of thrust…and so on…
But eventually these buses did make it up to 60+ mph. It’s just that the time to get there was measured in minutes, not seconds.
More:
CC: GM PD-4104 – The Most Influential and Dominant Bus Ever Jim Brophy
Definitely NOT a Deadly Sin.
I agree about the driver’s door, especially because the modification created some terrifying blind spots for fellow road users. They’ve fitted a modern LED light bar. Hopefully they’ve also fitted the latest in perimeter cameras.
That driver door would have not been an easy job either. All the electrical switches and wiring were on the panel below the original driver side window. I can’t imagine what the benefit of this modification is but to each their own I guess.
Having driven Class A motorhomes both with and without a driver’s door, I totally get why this was done. I probably wouldn’t do it if I was in the same situation, but if I was in the market for a class A, the absence of a door would be a significant downvote for any given option. The inconvenience seems trivial, but it’s not nothing. And how important that is will differ for every driver.
I would imagine that trying to make a camper that is decently insulated from the elements would be difficult with all of the windows in the original configuration. I guess it’s better to see it on the road in its modified state than not at all. I don’t imagine there is much call for old highway buses for road trips.
What you described would be a real treat to hear.
Cool old bus, but yeah, could wish for conversion work done more thoughtfully and respectfully. The backglass is a loss, the left-side door is an eyesore, and those box taillights are a crime.
But cool old bus, though.
I’ve pondered if it’d be workable to keep a wood-fired stove functioning at road speed; draft issues and what not. LoL
Not that one would want to tumble around anyway in a bus going over a cliff, but adding a hot stove and its contents to the mix… uhg
They used to have them in train cars without issue. Air rushing past a moving chimney would be no different than a stationary one in high winds. As long as it’s properly secured it’ll work fine.
Great find Paul – and thank you for the comments, though I’m sure CC readers know the 4104 post was a definite collaborative effort with all your excellent inputs.
Nice to see one still around, even if the conversion seems a little ham-fisted.
Bucked rivets though.
With this, the CC windshield wiper chronicle may now need an addendum written.
They do look a bit flimsy. How come the PD-4104 didn’t get the articulated wipers that the Scenicruiser got, after its first year? The 4101’s windshield is even taller. Or maybe that’s why?
Thanks for pointing out the typos earlier. It’s weird how a certain (wrong) number gets stuck in your mind while writing, and keeps getting repeated.
A quick image search seems to show 04s with both “clapper” and “widow’s peak” sweeps.
It’s something I hadn’t noticed before seeing this post.
Does the Cruiser seen in the 4th image seem to show provision in the front panel for alternative wiper post locations? Ditto the featured coach.
This may get us closer in the hunt for GM’s first articulated wiper.
Apologies for the delay. I can tell by all the replies that there are a lot of clenched teeth and folks on the edge of their seats. Lol
Anyway I had a chance to look at 04s, a ’53 model and a ’60. The ’53 has “widow’s peak” wipers. The ’60 has “clappers” and articulated arms. Although the posts are in different locations, it appears the provision was there for either or. Maybe this was an offered regional or fleet choice?
I will try to look in a parts or service book for a clue and then update.
My older sister and I put thousands of miles riding the dog to go visit my family starting in 1980. One never forgets it’s signature blue diesel smoke and tasty particulates. Didn’t bother me then but after all those miles now anytime I get behind a diesel it makes me want to barf instantly.