Parked right around the corner from each other are a couple of groovy cars on a quiet street corner in Berkeley. I can only guess that they have the same owner, or perhaps they are owned by members of the same household. So I assume they are brothers – with different mothers.
Plymouth Valiant Signet Convertible, in really nice shape.
BMW 2002, looks like it has been through a few wars. I had one of these, a long time ago. It was a great car, and by the time I had it, it had been through a few wars of its own. Mine was red, though, and had already seen a few applications of Bondo amongst other indignities.
That’s a pretty nice nose there. This looks to be a 1966, from the second generation of Valiants, cleaned up from the Exner-excess of the first generation. It’s pretty similar to a car that was featured in Hemmings a couple of years back. The nose on these is proud, Valiant even. I never noticed until now the dividing line down the middle of the grill, splitting the Valiant logo in two.
I always thought the 2002 looked “cute” from the front, but from this vantage point it seems more menacing than anything else. That kidney grill looks ready to rumble.
The rear of this Valiant is rather plain-Jane, I’m afraid. Maybe that’s to atone for the previous generation’s fake continental tire stamped into the trunklid. I cannot say that I love it, but I like it. Chrysler was pretty proud of Plymouth around this time, as the Valiant was a great sales and engineering success from its introduction in 1960. Perhaps that accounts for spelling out “Plymouth” in big block letters across the back. Chrysler kind of forgot about Plymouth as the 1960’s neared the end, to the point that when they killed off the brand in 2001 there was hardly a whimper.
This is a later, rectangular-taillight 2002, which I believe means it’s a 1974 (Note, I checked the California Smog Check Database and my notion was confirmed). Mine was a round-taillight version from 1969. If this was a 2002 tii, with fuel-injection, it would be highly-prized (I understand there were a few turbocharged versions made as well, but I’ve never seen one). Mine was a single-carburetor standard-tune version, but it still had a lot of moxy. This one has no special badging, so I would think it is also a single-carburetor version. From what I understand, the later years had very poor performance straight from the factory, but many folks took off the emissions equipment, and then it ran fine. I think the wing is an aftermarket piece.
That interior looks like a pretty fun place to hang out, especially on a nice summer’s day, cruising along the coast. You could even tow a trailer if you want!
It was hard to get a good shot of the 2002’s interior. But the owner of this car is pretty serious driver – he’s got some serious aftermarket seats in there. One of the notable things about my 2002 was the interior was incredibly flimsy, things like armrests, door panels, center consoles, all were made of what seemed like the cheapest material (vinyl-covered cardboard, pretty much) to someone raised on mid-1960’s Chryslers and 1970’s Volvos, and you had to be incredibly careful not to just rip them off their moorings. There once was an armrest on the passenger-side door panel, for example.
That looks like a pretty comfortable place to be, as long as you aren’t racing anyone. I am not sure whether this has a V-8 or a slant-six. According to the Hemmings article, the Signet came standard with the six. Either one would be fine by me.
The BMW propeller-logo is much more iconic than the Valiant logo. Growing up, I used to see the stylized “V” or arrowhead as the Plymouth logo, but now I believe this is really is more for “Valiant” than it is for Plymouth as a whole. Our 1967 Chrysler Town and Country Station wagon also had the Pentastar logo down on the side. I always thought that was a strange thing, almost an afterthought. Apparently it was only applied to the right-hand-side, which is weird as well. I cannot remember whether that was true for the Town-And-Country. Why not the left?
That’s a pretty cool-looking gas cap. If I remember correctly the 2002 has a similar gas-cap, but on the right-hand-side. In this case it was covered by a bush, so I couldn’t get a shot.
My 2002 had an antenna on the left-front-fender, near the window, in the standard location. I wonder if this one gets better reception? I had the world’s ugliest-looking aftermarket AM-FM radio in mine, but it actually got great reception.
Those are some mean-looking wheels on the 2002. Am I right that those hubcaps on the Valiant let you take the wheel off without taking off the hubcaps? I’ve never seen that before.
The backseat looks pretty roomy. I wonder what it’s like with the top up, though.
Just a few more shots of the Valiant. It really does have some nice details.
One more shot of the 2002. In contrast to the Valiant, it is pretty much devoid of small little decorations. But it is such a clean design, it hardly needs it.
So there you have it. Two brothers from different mothers. One for cruising, one for bruising. Which one would you choose? I’d probably choose the Valiant, but only because I already got the chance for a time to bruise in my 1969 example.
My favorite high school English teacher drove a red Valiant convertible of about that vintage, with white interior, so probably not this one. My second favorite high school English teacher drove a green Saab 96 V4, and my least favorite drove a Beetle. As for 2002’s, I got my first speeding ticket in a friend’s blue 2002. We had traded vehicles for a weekend; he got my Honda 400F motorcycle and I got his car; I got snagged by radar (rarely used in the Bay Area at the time) by an Oakland cop. As always, a CC post brings back good memories. Thanks.
My college roommate had a 2002 tii in 1976. I thought it was just an odd little foreign car until he took me for a ride. . . What a revelation! Other than Porsche, I was completely oblivious to Euro performance, being a blue-collar kid from an industrial town whose only exposure was to Detroit 60’s muscle.
I didn’t learn from the experience though – when I graduated in 1979 I bought myself a new Corvette, at the time of peak malaise and valley reliability for that particular car model. What a mistake, for reasons beyond automotive, which I won’t get into. . .
Shoulda bought a 320i.
That Valiant is sweet! I might be wrong but I don’t think that the gas cap is original. I remember them having a body colored painted cap. When those got lost, the aftermarket chrome caps were used so that color matching wasn’t a worry.
The small Pentastar was an idea from the Higher ups at Chrysler in the mid 60s. They first wanted a much larger one on the rear fenders but Engel rebelled, stating he would not have such marring his designs. So a compromise was reached, A small pentastar low on the right front fender, so it could be seen by pedestrians on the sidewalk. They were used on all Chrysler products up to 1996.
GM did this briefly in the ’90s and ’00s, maybe into the ’10s too, can’t remember the time frame. The square “mark of excellence” logo, same as Chrysler only on the right side and similar position too.
I like both the BMW & Plymouth.
The lower argent silver paint on the Signet is a nice detail. Plymouth used argent paint on early Satellites and Mercury used it on the ‘68 Cougar GTE.
Curiously, the BMW has the big taillights of a 74 or later car, but it has the small bumpers and no side markers. I’d think it’s Euro-spec, but it has the licence plate lamps in the NA-spec position, where the Euro-spec lights were on top of the bumper.
It’s got the US-spec front turn signals, too, with their more protuberant lenses. Looks to me like the side markers were shaved off, perhaps in preparation for the paint job that included the aftermarket (possibly Polytec Foha) trunk lid spoiler. Guess the small bumpers were swapped on at the same time.
Federal spec 2002s from the 5mph bumper era had hideously long bumper struts that added substantial length to both ends of the car, and many owners either altered them using a “tuck-in” modification spread online, or replaced them with Euro spec bumpers.
Jerome: If you get back over there, check to see what the Valiant’s plate is made of. It’s a fake of some kind. The characters are too skinny and they look flat, not embossed. Here’s what a real CA black plate personalized with seven characters looks like:
I agree the Valiant has fake license plates that might actually be embossed plastic. I bet the owner ordered a pair of Lipstick Plates with the same letters then tossed those in the trunk.
Very nice shots! One of the most elegant Valiants. In this attractive orange-bronze, it reminds me of the Chrysler Turbine car.
IIRC, the color’s name was actually ‘Turbine Bronze’. I recall it being used mostly on Chryslers. Probably reserved for higher trim Plymouths and Dodges, too.
Exactly what I was going to say. Great color.
This Valiant may be an even more rare car based on the color, alone. From the best info I can find, Turbine Bronze was a late 1966 availability through 1968 and it wasn’t used on a lot of cars. I don’t have the figures, but I can’t imagine it being less than that of something like, say, that ‘High Impact’ light green Sublime color that was, ironically, recently featured on CC of a repainted 1975 Road Runner.
I think the V8 cars had a V8-emblem on the front fenders so I’m going to guess this is a six. And those wheel covers are a puzzler. It would, indeed, be different if it were possible to remove the wheel without having to remove the wheel cover, too.
And for anyone wanting to see a ’66 Valiant convertible in action, a young Sue Lyon had one which was stolen by George C. Scott in The Flim-Flam Man who was chased by none other than a sheriff played by Harry Morgan.
Mine, many years ago, V8 emblem on lower front fenders, 273, 4 bbl, top up was still a good profile. These are original wheel covers, the feature car has Barracuda caps from 64 1/2 through 66, which may have been available on Valiant. the Valiant convertible in ‘Flim-‘Flam Man is a 1964, I liked the grille more than my ’66
Sorry, could have sworn it was a ’64, last saw the film 40+ years ago, remembered liking the grille better then mine, side looks different without the argent silver I was used to, do remember mine was a sweet car
It’s an easy mistake to make. Except for the doghouse, the Valiant didn’t change much (if at all) from 1964 to 1966.
I am pretty sure that the Valiants wheel covers were just that, wheel covers not mag wheels
That one was optioned to the max , I have never seen one with silver below the trim line
There was a movie in 1967 called the flim flam man with George C Scott
they stole a red ‘ 66 signet convertible and tore it up
Even ran it down the rail road tracks
Yeah, if you do a close up of the wheel, you can see it’s just a cover with openings for the wheel bolts. Still pretty clever and done well, though. And I’ll bet a replacement would be tough to find.
In fact, I see where the guy is using a steering wheel lock. He should probably take off those wheel covers for safe-keeping, too.
and I saw this today a short way from Berkeley over in Alameda driving just off base to see what might be laying around. Alameda is good hunting grounds for cars. The green caught my eye from the distance.
Guess what was around the block still
I am too lazy to look for pictures now, but IIRC the square taillight 2002 had a different gas cap (it had a square door on the right side instead of the metal round cap, about the same change that Volvo did at about the same time), the dashboard was a little bit different, the standard steering wheel was more like what the 3 series one would be than the previous one. Probably more differences that I don’t remember now.
It was on the right side so passersby would see it on parked cars—see TSB attached. Australian Mopars of that era had it (only) on the left side for the same reason. It went away sometime around 1973 as a cost-saving measure, and when it returned in 1993 on the Intrepid and other LH cars, it was in the same location but on both sides.
True, but it’s an aftermarket replacement—a Stant № G-27, in fact. The factory cap would’ve been painted body colour and had a straight-across handlebar, also body colour. Replacement caps bought from the dealer were chrome with a chromed straight-across handlebar.
Given the originality of the rest of the car, if it had one of those screwy bent motors with half the cylinders on the wrong side of the engine bay it would likely still have its original fender emblems proclaiming that fact—or at very least, holes where they used to be.
…and with more than a little resemblance to the nose of the 1964 Imperial.
That TSB is a gem! I wonder how many were installed, and of those, how many were actually sealed or under coated.
Those pentastars on one wing were not for the USA cars only. Rootes in the UK also installed them from approx. 1968 onwards. I know they were on Hillman / Sunbeam Imps from that period, and on the RH front wing only. That always was something I never knew why – so thank you Daniel for that TSB!
You can (just, behind the front wheel) see it on a scrap Imp I sold 7 years ago. The new owner transported it in an interesting way….
I had a ’63 Valiant convertible when I was stationed at the Presidio of SF. Put it up for sale when I got transfer orders and parked it on Crissy Field near the waterfront where it would get a lot of traffic. It was a almost a 30 year old car, but no rust and it ran great. Roomy back seat for a convertible too – even with the manual top pulled up.
Of all the cars I’ve sold in my life, I recall the Valiant as the strangest transaction. An attractive Aussie girl came to look. She asked me to give her a ride in it, but declined to drive. Said she didn’t feel comfortable driving on the right just yet. She liked the car and asked me what to do next. I told her it was customary in the US to make the owner an offer. She looked at my asking price then offered $300 over. Thinking she perhaps hadn’t read my hand lettered for sale sign correctly, I told her that her offer was $300 over my asking price. She looked at me and asked if that ws good enough. I stupidly told her that in the US, people generally offered a bit less then asking rather than offering more. As I recall I ended up cutting $100 off the asking price. She paid in $100’s and didn’t seem to have any trouble driving the car away – right side of the road and all. As I watched her drive off, I decided she had been a very clever negotiator – and I was a pretty stupid seller.
LMAO…
That’s a lovely Valiant, it’s like a mini Sport Fury.
I have seen some Chrysler products where that little pentastar has been crudely painted over, sacrilege I say !!!
Here’s my ‘66 Signet convertible with a V8.
In the army I got to spend alot of years in Europe. In the army. In the early seventys and most of the eighties. I had a 1973 BMW bavaria very similar to both those. Great car. Straight six mechanical FI. And a 5 spd. I had such fun with that car. Went from northern Germany to Amsterdam.. and all over I was 35 minutes from Munich. Was stationed in itay and Greece.
I’ve been really enjoying your posts; great to know there’s another CCer right in the neighborhood!
The 1966 is my favourite of the 2nd gen. Valiants, the forward thrusting fenders really improve the looks in my opinion.
I like the simple grille treatment of the Australian version too , not sure which one I like the most,
> Chrysler was pretty proud of Plymouth around this time, as the Valiant was a great sales and engineering success from its introduction in 1960. Perhaps that accounts for spelling out “Plymouth” in big block letters across the back.
In America maybe, but certainly not in Canada where a 1966 Valiant had no “Plymouth” identification badging at all, since Valiant was still a separate marque from Plymouth in Canada (as it was in the U.S. in 1960 only). And the car itself looked more like a Dodge Dart than an American Valiant anyway.
The BMW logo is NOT a propeller, it is the flag of Bavaria
Oh wow, if I were to score a Valiant convertible, it would be hard to find a sweeter one. I have a fnear-fetish for that Turbine Bronze. OTOH, I like the 2002, but could think of many other years and color combos that would make it more attractive.
These Valiant convertibles always give me pangs of regret, as I knew a guy who tried to sell me a nice 64 in a great color combo (black out, red in) for a really attractive price in the late 80s. But it was a six and I was fatigued by too much time around /6 A bodies. A 273 would have made all the difference then. Stupid, stupid, stupid!
Not to rub salt in the wound, but a few oil changes, a few spark plug changes, or just one starter change and you’d’ve been whacking yourself upside the head and going “Wow, I coulda had a Slant-6!”.
I’d take Siggy
the Signet borrowed it’s styling from the Imperial, 1963 rear
http://americancars-for-sale.com/wp-content/americancars-for-sale.com/2016/05/1963-imperial-crown-convertible-american-cars-for-sale-2016-05-29-2-1024×685-1024×685.jpg
1964 front
https://notoriousluxury.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/64.jpg
That Valiant reminds me of the one George C. Scott stole, then used to wreck the town in the 1967 comedy ‘The Flim Flam Man’. It ended up driven into a cornfield gully!
My ’67 Sunbeam Alpine roadster had the Chrysler pentastar low on the right front fender, just ahead of the door. I remember the little gold anodized aluminum ‘star fell off, leaving the black plastic backing, so I pried it’s replacement off some old salvage-yard Dodge or Plymouth.
That ’74 2002 is either grey-market, or it’s been de-federalized. In the US, those came with huge 5 mph aluminum bumpers.
Happy Motoring, Mark