You know time’s been rolling by when you do the mental math and realize it’s been 44 years since the downsized GM B/C Bodies appeared and shook up the industry. We’ve written so much on these over the years here, it’s hard to know what else to say, except that they were long overdue, most welcome, and they were the last full size American sedans that raised some genuine interest in me.
Stephanie and I went to the LA Auto show in the winter of 1978 as newlyweds. Having driven to the downtown convention center in my well-aged rough and uncomfortable ’68 dodge A-100 van, the thought of a big, cushy, comfortable sedan had some very genuine appeal. Must have been something to do with being recently married…
I decided that a new Buick or Olds 98 was not quite in the cards for us, but a ’68 Peugeot 404 was, as seen here on Angeles Crest Highway one snowy morning, having ascended it from the high desert after one of our stays at Valyermo Monastery. One of the joys of Southern California living: savoring the mild desert and a snowy mountain road within 45 minutes of each other.
This LeSabre started out somewhere quite different than Los Angeles. But I suspect it didn’t live there long, given the utter lack of rust. Or maybe it was stashed away in a nice warm garage for 43 years.
The driver’s seat does show some wear, but it’s in pretty fine shape, given the years. I would have gone for the cloth or velour upholstery in one of these.
Plenty of leg room in back, despite it sitting on a 116″ wheelbase.
I know you have a lot more yet to say about this fine old Buick and its ilk than I can summon tonight after a long day, so go at it.
I think those are the same window cranks my 71 LeSabre had. It also had some strange fabric – not quite cloth, certainly not vinyl or leather. Also my parents had it covered in plastic so who knows what it really was.
Yup, The General got some serious mileage out of those ol’ cranks. My parents had a ‘71 LeSabre. That steering wheel looks mighty familiar too.
Aye, and they were still using those window cranks (with a black knob instead of started-translucent-colourless-and-eventually-turned-cloudy-yellowish-brown) on the ’90 Caprice. I think ’68 was the first year for it.
Chrysler, too, used a particular window crank design, with a few minor detail changes, from ’68 through to ’95 on a bunch of models.
I wouldn’t be surprised to learn the same of Ford and AMC-Jeep.
The reason why ’68 was the common first year was that the pre-’68 designs with hard-edged metal knobs wouldn’t pass the new-for-’68 safety reg prohibiting dangerous protuberances, projections, and edges in the passenger compartment.
Seems to be a couple of bodies in the trunk or the rear springs are getting tired.
The car is setting at an incline – notice the vertical lines of the house behind it.
The car is on an incline, but there is two inches of air showing over the front wheels and the rear tire is slightly covered by the body.
Wow! That IS a nice 404.
Oh, I know this is really about a remarkably preserved chip off an old memory, but I can’t help but comment upon that chip.
It’s awful.
The trunk is virtually the length of a call of that name from those times, the wheels are so small they can almost be seen from anywhere, the Romanesque front has the lights falling backwards as if in a failed trust experiment with the hood (and give a new meaning to moonshiners), the glasshouse, well, its actually quite good until one’s eye reaches the front quarter where the Shit-We’re Out-by-An-Inch-Boys line goes up so as not to end the window sill somewhere into the fender, and the tailights are pieces of class if still fitted without a visible body extension to the Rolls Royce from whence they were snaffled, which they are ofcourse not still so here, and so, not so good.
In sum, le sabre needs le blacksmith for le re-sharpening.
I’ll dare opine that you made the right choice, car and wife both.
That uptick in the beltline just behind the A pillar in all the 77 B and C bodies (except Cadillac) bothered me intensely when these were new. Evidently they bothered someone at GM too since it disappeared with the 1980 facelift.
To me, the way the leading edge of the front door beltline rises to meet the cowl is somewhere in the range of pleasant-graceful-unobtrusive on the ’77-’79 cars, but on the ’80-’90 cars it strikes me as awkward and sloppy, like a “just make it fit!” afterthought.
The Buicks were my least favourite of the downsized B bodies. Just not as coherent a look as the others – seemed a bit awkward overall. Agree about the velour. Vinyl seats were well past their prime by 1977.
The dash and instrumental panel was great, with aluminum faced gauges and a big, round clock in front of the passenger. Much better than Olds, Chevy and Pontiac.
Those aluminum-faced gauges aren’t so great when the sun hits ’em!
The clock in my 1978 LeSabre even worked! I thought GM quality control made sure they didn’t work.
When did GM move to quartz movements? My dad’s 77 Bonneville still had a mechanical electric clock; I know Chrysler had been using quartz “chronometer” clocks for several years by then.
Sometime between 1978 and ’84. My folks’ ’78 Caprice had a non-quartz clock, and their ’84 Caprice had a same-size, same-shape quartz unit.
Both worked. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My dad’s 1979 Impala did not come with a clock. He was so miffed with the fit and finish of the car he demanded a clock for the car. There were two models-one with conventional hands, and another “digital” clock with the digits on rotating drums. Dad insisted on the “digital” clock. If I put my ear next to it with the motor off, I could hear the mechanism whirring. I still remember the sound.
The downsized-for-’77 GM cars will always have a place in my memory as my mother traded in her ’76 AMC Pacer for a new ’77 Electra 225 sedan.
All I remember is sitting in the showroom in the big Electra (I was 12) and waiting for her to do the paperwork.
It was her first car with an AM/FM stereo radio, power windows/locks/seat, cruise. If I remember correctly, it was $8600. It wasn’t the fancy dancy Limited or Park Avenue, but it was a nice car inside.
Shades of the 1950s. The vinyl interior pegs it as a base level trim… and there’s just three portholes on the fender. Just like the 50s, the upscale 1977 Electra received four portholes. Mind you, the the 1970s, I don’t think anyone noticed.
Those seats were actually optional upgrades…custom notchback with folding center armrest and chrome trim on the ends of the seats…The base seats were a continuous bench in a different vinyl or cloth
As a foreign car fan teenager I was amazed that the full-size Buicks were available with a 3.8 liter V6 in 1976. I thought it was practical but it was probably a dog in the big, non-downsized cars. I imagine it was an OK engine in the ’77s.
1977 and the first year of downsizing was also the first year of massive engine sharing between divisions. Yes the Apollo/ Skylark was available with a Chevy straight 6 until Buick started producing the 231 V6 again. Previously if you ordered a LeSabre with a 350 you got a Buick 350. If you ordered an Olds you got an Olds 350. All four divisions had their own 350 that were entirely different from each other…different bores and strokes with different torque and hp ratings. In 1977 a LeSare could be had with the Buick 231 V6, a Pontiac 301 V8, a Chevy 305 V8 or a Buick 350 V8…Availability was based on what state the car was sold in. California emissions standards required certain engines. The sharing of engines did result in a lawsuit from Olds owners suing GM for getting a Chevy 350 when they expected an Olds rocket V8…
The top engine choice was the 403 cubic inch Oldsmobile engine with 185 horsepower and 320 ft./lbs. of torque.
Seems ridiculous to me that GM would make four different engines with the same 350 displacement. Was any one better than the other?
The divisions were so much more autonomous back then….All divisions even had their own big block…Buick, Olds and Pontiac all had a 455, Chevy had a 454 and of course Cadillac had their own 472 and 500…all very different designs with their own unique bores, strokes and horsespower and torque ratings…The Buick 455 used a thin wall construction making it 100lbs lees than the other big blocks….Divisions even used unique transmissions for a period of time…Buick had the Dynaflow, Olds used the hydramatic and Chevy had the powerglide…all totally different transmissions powering similarly sized cars
You have to keep in mind the volumes that existed when those different engine families were born. Chevy of course was king moving a million or so full size cars per year. Then there were the trucks and as the 60’s unfolded the other car lines. So they needed multiple engine lines just to keep up with the Chevy demand. Meanwhile the other 4 moved a good chunk of cars too so they could keep their own engine lines running at a good rate.
You also have to keep in mind that they didn’t all start out as 350’s Chevy had the 327, Pontiac 326 ect. However apparently corporate decided they should all just be called 350 and for the big engines Buick Olds and Pontiac got to call them 455’s and Chevy had to make do with 454. And I do mean call them because the Buick is actually a 349 and the Pontiacs are 354 and 456.
“I imagine it was an OK engine in the ’77s.”
Uhhhhh, no. I worked at a place that had one of these with the V6 as a company car. The gas pedal on that car spent a lot of time mashed against the floor because it was so slow. I don’t know what axle ratio they paired it with, but the car was a gutless wonder at almost any speed.
Uhhhhh, can you imagine what a ’76 weighing 800lbs more would have been like with that 231?
My dad got into a V-6 kick with our taxi fleet. This combination was a total dog. They were dangerously slow and didn’t have any better fuel economy since your pedal was on the metal all day long. The also broke motor mounts like pretzels.
My 1978 LeSabre had a Buick 350 in it.
My college typing professor 👩🏫 (yes, typing was required for ALL business majors) had a ‘77 LeSabre which featured the amber colored turn signals. How forward thinking could you be in 1977.
Was sooo happy when Word Perfect hit the market. No more white-out or pencil erasers to fiddle with.
Should have gone for the Olds. Here’s my (albeit a 350) ’79 Holiday 88. Great car for the time, still a great ride today.
I did own a well used LeSabre as well, like the subject of the thread, but it was a poor example and we unloaded it for not many pesos.
good looking Olds.
The Oldsmobile from 1977-1979 was, in my opinion, was the best car GM ever made.
One thing I can’t imagine is walking into any GM showroom in ’77 and seeing the all new B- and C-bodies right next to the aging colonnade A-body cars. I believe the A sedans and wagons rode on the same wheelbase as the B, but the B was so much more modern and space efficient.
I don’t have production figures, but I imagine the A-bodies were a tough sell in ’77.
I did lots of time in the front and back of both B body sedans and Colonade A bodies, and didn’t find the latter any less roomy than the B’s. The B body trunks were considerably larger though, and the coupe rear seats were tiny (though those were on a shorter wheelbase).
My dad ordered one of those LeSabres. Dog dish hubcaps, no radio. 301 Pontiac motor, as I recall. I bought it from him many years and miles later when he got into the cattle business and replaced it with a pickup. Valve cover gaskets leaked like a sieve, so I pulled the covers to discover that years of Havoline oil had plugged the return drains with paraffin. Dug out the pooky as best I could, and put a few more miles on it. I still remember the distinctive smell of those vinyl seats as they aged.
Love this Buick and that it’s pre-facelift and sans vinyl-roof! Looking at the interior reminded me of how shallow the seat cushion was in the back seat. Road trips made you feel as if you were sitting on a perch… Also, these LeSabre’s cry out for white walls in my view.
I am loving mine right now. I admit that the Impala is not as glamorous as a Buick or an Olds, but there is more than a little charm about a giant, basic sedan.
1979 Impala, F41, 350/350. Apart from the rather sudden aftermarket white vinyl upholstery and the non-functioning casette player, it’s a lovely thing to own
Oh, it seems the management system didn’t pick up my picture, I’ll try again
Wow, it does not seem that long ago. And this one had to be right at the end of vinyl seats as being acceptable in a car like this.
I viewed these as a compromise. It was clear that they were better built and felt more solid than the prior B/C body cars from GM. But they struck me as a concession to an anticipated world of scarcity. Maybe not so much in the Chevy/Pontiac range, but for an Olds on up, these lacked the presence of the large cars I had grown up around.
Perhaps I might feel differently if I had grown up in an era when a 51 Ford was a “normal” sized car. And there is no dispute that these were a much more efficient package than the Colonnade cars I had so much exposure to.
Still, with the right engine these were not as much of a compromise as some of the later downsizing efforts from the American makers. But I would choose an Olds out of all of these.
You can still have vinyl seats in a car like this; you just can’t call it vinyl. It has to be “leatherette” or “Softex” or “MB-Tex” or some such. Or be like Tesla and give it a positive spin, “vegan synthetic leather”.
44 years? How time compresses. It certainly doesn’t FEEL like that long, but the years do pass more quickly than it did for a pre-teen when these first appeared.
It has me reflecting on the ongoing development of technology, and thinking about how cars have changed in the 44 years since these launched. It’s perhaps a useful exercise to consider what cars were on the market 44 years BEFORE this. The best seller that year was also somewhat revolutionary, in a different way.
count me as another fan of these b/c bodys. They were popular over here in the late 70s/early 80s due to a weak $. That´s why they are familiar to me. I remember well the Chevys and Oldsmobiles. These two I prefer style wise over the Buick.
A friend of mine had a ’77 Impala, another a ’77 Buick, and my dad’s best friend had a ’79 Olds. I rode in all three, and I thought the Buick was the best riding and the nicest inside. The Olds was the best looking from the outside though.
I was living in Bloomington, IN 44 years ago. I went down to the Chevy dealer to take a look at the new downsized cars — most impressive. I also was quite surprised to see a 1960 Buick 4-door sedan in good condition on their used car lot.
This is the ’77 Olds that got away from me. Bought by a neighbour new in late ’76, but spec’d almost exactly as I wanted, with 403, stereo, rally wheels, no air (Northern Quebec). It was almost mine 11 years later for $1000. I had a money order and was driving down to meet up with the seller, but his thirsty brother, who had just wrecked another car and needed wheels talked him out of it, so the deal wasn’t done. I’m guessing that it probably didn’t last another another year after that.
‘Sorry, not a fan of this one, and I come from a Buick family. Looks like GM plopped a full-size body on top of an intermediate-size chassis. I can’t imagine Bill Mitchell approving something like this but he was still there. ’77 was his last year at GM.
Not just “intermediate-size”. For all practical purposes it WAS the existing “A” body intermediate chassis, with perhaps a little repositioning of frame length.
The suspension, brakes, axles, etc., were all direct from the Colonnade “A” body. I think they pulled some length from ahead of the front wheels and put it behind the rear wheels, plopped a big rectangular body on top, and called it a day. It wasn’t so much a “downsized” “Full-size” car, as it was an intermediate with more-than-typical interior space, and the same “Full-size” car names.
They weren’t the same frame. This comes up often on this site, but the B-body used an entirely new frame design. It had completely different frame rail design and also used less crossmembers. The suspension was similar, but not the same. The basic geometry from the front suspension was used, but the control arms themselves were a new part. The new B-Bodies were lighter and more space efficient than the old Colonnade cars.
I have to agree that the Buck LeSabre 4-door sedans were one of the least attractive of the downsized cars. That said, it looked far better as a 2-door, such as this very attractive Turbo coupe below. I preferred the Buick roofline to that of the Olds for 2-doors, but the Olds 88 4-door was better looking than the Lesabre 4-door.
I would definitely like one of those!
That interior is in amazing condition—specifically, it’s amazing the colours are all still more or less pretty similar, especially since the owner is apparently an avid cigarette smoker.
’77 LeSabre design plus: real (amber) rear turn signals, and that was when they were more difficult and expensive to make than they would become a couple years later.
’77 LeSabre design minus: that melted-bar-of-soap downcurve at the back of the deck lid.
My very basic ‘77 Chevy Impala sends its Buick sibling birthday greetings. The Bs and Cs of this era lived long and prospered. They represented the best of GM engineering at a time when compromises were necessary all around. My Impala just turned 100K, drove it 900 miles roundtrip to Kansas City last month and didn’t miss one darn beat. The 305 V8 pulled fine, the mileage was not great (high-ish teens) and I couldn’t ask for a more comfortable ride (except the lack of any A/C made it warm inside). They just don’t make ‘em like this anymore.
The downsized cars were quite radical at the time. The 71’s has started out big, but restrained. Once they added all the opera windows and big trim by 76, they looked fat. So the 77’s were radical. It was weird having the intermediates on the same showroom floor before their redesign in 78.
I like the Chevrolet and Oldsmobile the best. The Buick 2dr without the side trim was nice as well. But somehow this Buick sedan seems the most awkward. It’s like these random pieces were all stuffed together and squeezed onto a smaller platform. But the Cadillac was the worst.
Regarding the engines, GM drove themselves into near bankruptcy in these years by developing multiple similar products. They tried consolidating engines, but they also hid it from the customer. Like Watergate, it’s the cover up that gets you.
These were abysmally fuglee. Buick definitely lost the design coin test. If it was Silver with the bordello red velour interior it would be perfect. Oh my…..that face.
I’ll take the vinyl in this car any day over the light blue fabric that about 75% of 1977-79 full size Buicks seem to have been equipped with. While lots of 70’s GM interior materials suffer from sun fading, the blue fabric seems to get particularly icky looking. And even a small amount of cigarette smoking inside the car would add an unpleasant brown tinge. In general, comparing any 1977 GM full-sizer to its 1976 equivalent shows that a lot of cheapening of the interior materials came along with the efficiencies of downsizing.