I assume that’s what this sidewalk tableau represents, but I make no guarantees. Maybe they were just wanting to show off their freshly-painted Y-block. But it brings back memories of similar scenarios form my Peugeot 404 era. Now, I’m really not much of a mechanic at all, but I did swap a couple of 404 engines, one of them right on the curbside, in front of the little junk yard in Culver City, where I bought the engine for 50 bucks. How about you? And not just necessarily curbside either.
Well, I’ve pulled and put back in the same engine after an overhaul, does that count?
I’m in the middle of a genuine engine swap right now, Corvair 110 to 140.
To me putting an engine in of the same configuration as what the vehicle left the factory isn’t really a “swap”. So putting in a 140 where a 110 doesn’t count and neither does sticking in a 350 where a 305 used to reside. To me a real swap is something like sticking a 302 or 350 where a 2.3 used to reside.
Never done one and hopefully won’t have to.
Yep! From replacing a blown V-4 in a ’68 Saab 96, to a 3.8 in a mid ’80s Buick LeSabre and many more mundane replacements also. Plus a few genuine swaps like replacing the 4.9 six in an early ’90s Econoline with a 5.8 Windsor, 170 six / auto to 289 / 4 speed in a ’64 Comet convertible and a ’69 Ranchero from 351w / auto to 390 4 speed.
Buddy of mine had a 1978 Chevrolet Impala sedan, with a 350 installed in it.
We were stumbling along in the junkyard thinking of finding a 454 to put in it, when we stumbled up on a gen-u-wine Cadillac 500 just ripe for the pickings.
A lot of cussing, spitting, cutting, and press-fitting and that 500 was in the place of where originally a 305 was.
Always throws people off when they open the hood and see the front mounted distributor, and the wreath and crest on the valve covers, as it still sports the white wall tires and stock hubcaps, and looks so stock that its a great sleeper.
Now this is right up my alley. Well, driving-wise anyway, don’t know if I’d want the hassle of actually doing it. And I’d have to move out of California or get an older-than-’75 recipient vehicle.
The car is a blast to drive, and will easily light up both massive (225/70/15) rear white wall tires, idles like a sewing machine, is reasonably fuel efficient and is super quiet.
but yes, I’ll pass on another project of this magnitude.
If you are replacing one engine with another of a similar family, it is a relatively straightforward job. The problems start when, like Mr Texan1 stated, is when you start swapping in completely different engine families. You then get into cutting, moving and hammering. You may never get it right, either.
In our shop we refused to do change engine families. Sure, one SBC for another is easy but putting a Caddy 500 in an Impala is altogether another issue. It’s basically impossible to give a reliable estimate to a customer as you don’t know what you will encounter along the way.
In modern cars, no way unless you have a freaking huge limit on your Visa card and are willing to pay it off.
Right, all the research we did on this swap suggested that it was a slam dunk. ..
..
No it wasn’t, not if we wanted functional A/C, an exhaust system that didn’t clatter against the frame, and a ton of other small but significant time killers that made it not an economical choice.
As a personal project which it was, it was a fun one, but even my own car I’m interested in an LS swap to change out the 305, but I expect the car to be down for the better part of a month or two in getting all the wiring right and the car running.
I still toss the idea of just rebuilding the 305 in mine and warm it up a bit with some speed parts, just to be slightly different AND still retain the 2 barrel carb.
We have an 83 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham Coupe with an original 5.7 diesel in it that runs but has been neglected for years. This summer we are going to swap the 5.7 for a 6.2 J Detroit Diesel built to HD/AM General specs. Since the car was original diesel, it will be exempt from smog but will burn clean anyways. The whole thing will be lifted from a 91 Suburban that has too much rust to keep going but has been well kept. The 700R4 will be rebuilt using a Mad Dog Level 3 rebuilt kit 9.5″ rear end will be rebuilt and have 3.08″ ratio. Everything will drop in with no modification but the a/c bracket and the additional of an external oil and transmission cooler. The factory diesel Cadillac is already well insulated so should be fairly quiet. The car will see no towing but be largely a cruiser and a road car. A circa 91 6.2 J still uses the mechanical DB2 pump so installation and maintenance will be easy and not expensive. Car will have a huge electric fan instead of the mechanical fan and of course retain the factory hybroboost setup. 3″ true dual exhausts front to back with mufflers and resonator to keep things quiet but keep the air flowing.
Performance will be something north of a 307 but not quite as nice as a 368 but the MPG will be killer about 22 around town and 36 on the highway as long as you do not ride the throttle.
And of course the beautiful car body ride and comfort riding on the road. No teeny weeny cars here!
Why no turbo? We bought the Cadillac for $600 and the truck for $1200 because its too rusty to pass NC safety inspection but the drivetrain runs really well. About $2500 in parts and we are looking at a $4300 classic cruiser that will be economical to enjoy regularly. Given the quality and attention to the conversion will likely recoup nearly all of the costs at resale.
If GM hadn’t screwed the pooch on diesels in the beginning maybe we could have been treated to a car like that from the factory up till the end of D-body Fleetwood production.
For a second there I thought that you were talking about swapping in a old-school Detroit Diesel (two-stroke screamin Jimmy). I can’t imagine it would be a very practical swap in anything other than maybe a heavy duty pickup, but it’s one of the coolest sounding diesels of all time.
Your swap sounds like a cool way to make a nice cruiser. And with the torque, it’s handy if you ever need to pull a stump out of the yard 🙂
Ha ha no maybe if I was running a bus service or something. The current car actually runs but it is weak and smokes so bad I suspect either the IP needs a rebuild or the chain has grown so slack the timing is so retarded. Compression seems ok though, once the project is done will probably rebuild the original 5.7 with copper gaskets, ARP bolts, and a couple of the other small fixes that will make the engine pretty close to bulletproof. Throw in a Racor water separator and probably selling for $1,000 to the small but devoted diesel community.
DD should have built the diesel that went into the cars, in fact they did build the 6.2 for 1982 but GM never seriously thought of putting it into the cars by then. Diesel development was a separate operating unit when I started with Oldsmobile and part of the reason it was developed by the car group was speed. CAFE implementation was to begin 1978 and GM was under the gun more than any other broad line manufacturer. Emissions, bumper and safety regs pretty much hit everyone equally. That was sort of the game at the time, in those days, the majority of the time the engineers spent was to get everything into compliance and make the engines run smoothly. I am not against efficient, safe vehicles, but in a way it was a shame because so much resources were spent in compliance that other things suffered. CAFE accelerated rapidly at the beginning but basically remained flat from the mid 80s until a couple of years ago. That is why cars got big again, gas prices stabilized and CAFE requirements remained static and with advancement of technology a happy medium was established. The alternative was to pay the fines for failure to meet CAFE. Some automakers do that, Mercedes, Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, most European automakers have chosen to pay the fines over the years. Paying fines was not really an option for GM as it was always fearful of anti trust litigation and by overtly failing CAFE would have not only created unnecessary drama with the Feds, other carmakers would have likely done the same. While the Fed coffers would have gone up, I cannot imagine what would have happened in Washington. I could go on and on, if you are interested in automotive history, it is an interesting facet and one that had broad implications on the industry. I make no apologies for bad product, but it is always appropriate to understand the context upon which something is developed. No one woke up one day and decided that we should put diesels in Oldsmobile to create a new marketing rationale, it was done because Americans loved big cars and CAFE forced our hand, plain and simple. It was a collision course. Back then, Mercedes buyers put up with pokey smoky 220 and 240Ds because they were a niche market and well those buyers bought into that mess willingly. It was a different story trying to sell it to a guy accustomed to 20 foot long lead sleds heading down to the VFW.
But I digress, I am looking forward to the project, it will be nice to enjoy a car like that without spending a fortune on gas and knowing that between fuel savings and eventual resale that the cost factor will be minimal. I feel wistful, after 41 years in the car business so far the market is unrecognizable to what it was when I started. It seems as though cars have less meaning to people than they did, at least to certain groups of people. Yes, the car makers do some things to differentiate themselves, but as we have seen in many of the threads on this site, most cars are really just different versions of the same thing.
This project sounds like the making of a good write up for CC. That and the discussion on fuel costs, CAFE and diesels at GM, really. I do appreciate the history, especially from those in the business.
I know you posted that someone else claims that they get 36mpg on the highway with their similar conversion but I seriously doubt that you will see that high. Breaking 30 I’ll believe but 36 MPG I’m just not buying it in a heavy brick.
Well it is an estimate. Most diesels in trucks (of course) are specified for duty. Many had like 4.10 gearing and the GVW of trucks tend to be high. Even then, a 1991 Suburban with 6.2 will get into the 20s on the highway in overdrive at a steady 55. The 6.2 diesel weighs in about the same as the old Cadillac big block, maybe 50lbs more. 700R4 the transmission for the Chevrolet powered Broughams and the rear end will just be a normal 9.5 with a much more economical 3.08 ratio. The IP will be timed for efficient delivery and not advanced for power like it is commonly done to squeeze a few more ponies. 36MPG might be the top of the scale, but 34 even 32 will be fully acceptable. At 32MPG combined with the 27 gallon tank gives it a highway range of 864 miles. Yes in a VW NB or something, the long term savings between diesel and gas versions takes a while but compared to the original Cadillac 368 or even a 307 the savings are rather immediate and large. Yes it is a brick, one of my car buddies I mentioned this too and he said why don’t you just get one of the new diesel Cruzes. They will get 46MPG highway now but it would be liking riding in a shoebox. Brick or shoebox.
I’d estimate that you’ll see around 32 MPG at reasonable Hwy speeds.
Once you’ve got it done, and run it for awhile maybe you can do a COAL post on it, pretty please. I know I’d like to see it.
As far a diesel Cruise I agree I’d much rather drive a 30 MPG B/C than a 46 MPG Cruise.
Heeeeeeeeeck no. No way. Sounds like less fun than having my wisdom teeth removed.
My first engine swap was in the driveway beside our rented house in the suburbs. Didn’t have a garage. Next I helped my brother with the engine in his car, in the driveway at our parents’ house. Not fun trying to move a cherrypicker on a gravel driveway when there’s a Mopar big block swinging on the end. My next two were in the garage at my house.
After reading all these exotic swaps I doubt this qualifies, but yes. 70 VW type 1. Curbside in Apra Heights, Navy Housing, Guam. Not really very intimidating since we put the incoming engine together on my back porch. The curbside portion only took a couple hours.
The biggest potential hassle was the potential stops by shore patrol. I would shudder at putting a caddie engine in a chevy or anything like that. Possibly I can torque up my courage before I’m all done.
Yes, more than I can count. I dislike heavy modification though because it takes forever to get the job done. Straight interchanges are no problem.
Closest to Curbside swap: Winter ’79, college parking lot in Briarcliff Manor NY…’57 Chevy 150 2-door sedan. Swapped the original no-flame six for a 265 V8.
Most complicated: 1996…’89 Caprice Classic wagon, swapped the original Olds 307/TH200-4R for a 350 TPI/TH700-R4 complete with factory harness. This was also the most satisfying as it made the car actually fun to drive…plus the “OMG!”s from onlookers when popping the hood never got old.
Can’t wait to try a Gen III/IV 5.3 in either my ’68 C-10 or ’57 Handyman. All in good time.,,
Yep, I’m in the swap club.
The easiest was the 200 I-6 to 289 V8 conversion on my current 65 Mustang coupe. I had the V8 drivetrain from a very rusty 67 coupe and a stripped, but complete and rust-free 65 coupe. I just made two into one, but had to source a Ford 8″ rear from a 66 Mustang as the 67 rear diff is wider and larger diameter at the spring perches. All of the other 67 parts work, except for the front spindles which came off of a Mercury Monarch (an easy disk brake swap). This swap is straightforward because anything for a Mustang is reproduced and the car was designed for a Ford small block.
Also swapped a 68 Pontiac 400 into a 80 Trans Am with a 301 (with a friend). That one was pretty straight forward also. Just needed to dig up TA 6.6 parts.
The most difficult was swapping a Ford 400M with a C6 trans into a 67 Mustang. Don’t ask – was a friends car. In his defense, the 400M was built up like a 351 Cleveland with racing cam and heads. That one took a lot of cutting and welding to get a Lincoln C6 to fit into the trans tunnel. This was before stroker kits for Ford small blocks became cheap. Now, I no longer see any reason for a big block in a Mustang when you can build a quicker small block. Technically the 400M is a small-block, but it has a big block bell-housing bolt pattern, and it’s much bigger and heavier than a “Windsor” small block due to the high deck and canted valve cover heads.
No but I removed the fried auto box from my Sunbeam Rapier,much skinned knuckles,broken nails and enough swearing to make a sailor blush.The guy across the street trying to sell his house wasn’t amused!
Gem,
I think I love you.
I’m doing another engine swap this summer. The 250 / Powerglide in my ’72 Pontiac Ventura is being replaced with the Chevy 350 pirated from my ’66 Biscayne. The Vento is sitting in a friend’s storage yard with one of my other projects, a ’71 GMC Sprint, parked right next to it.
The Biscayne motor is sitting in the back of the Sprint. All I have to do is borrow a cherry picker and swing the 350 the 5-6 feet from the Sprint’s bed to the Ventura’s gaping maw. I’ll do a cam & lifter swap with the engine in the vehicle.
Never did it.
Never will. My engine-changing days are long behind me.
Helped a friend do it…once. We were both unemployed; and he cadged a job dropping an engine in. Don’t know if it was of the same engine family as what was pulled out…
At the time I hadn’t yet learned the art of shade-tree wrenching. I was a helper; a pass-the-rag-hand-me-that-wrench-gimme-a-beer helper. Anyway…it wasn’t his place or mine and the owner wasn’t home. His dog was in the backyard; on a trolley that ran from the front door to his doghouse.
I had never met a pit bull before; that was not the way to do it. Suffice…I didn’t learn much about wrenching that day, either.
On my old 1974 vw van after the 2nd or 3rd time and I had all the wiring labeled and color coded from the last time I had it out for the clutch I had it down to about an hour. Just needed some big blocks under the jack stands to get the rear high enough to clear the motor and a proper floor jack and out it came….
Not doing an engine swap, per se, but we are swapping out the drivetrain/frame from a 1989 E350 Airstream B190 (with a very overworked, thirsty 5.8) for a 1994 E350 ambulance (7.3 IDI) that was converted to 4×4 by Quigley when new. We always wanted a class B diesel 4×4, and in the next few weeks, we’ll have one.
Nice!
My sole automotive engine swap to date was partly in a gravel parking lot and partly in a garage bay at work. The job was to replace the suddenly dead 2.0L engine in our 85 Ford Ranger with a used 2.3 out a wrecked Mustang. Since the donor was an auto and the truck was a stick I had to swap out several bits and pieces, including the fuel pump which was done with the dead engines side by side, then we used a Bobcat loader with a pallet forg and a chain as a field expedient engine hoist.
As an aside, working for a tool rental company is at least as useful as working for a car repair shop since I was able to borrow a flatbed tow truck to haul the dead vehicle, find something to lift the engines and have a work space, even if we didn’t have a lift.
Did an engine change in my Buick, replaced the 307 Olds with an Olds 350 I got from a ’78 Seville. Thing with the Olds V8s was that I could put a 455 in it with no modification. Wasn’t much of a swap. I’ve done three Suzuki Samurai engines with a friend, but they don’t count either. Oh well. They were still a pain to do though, the Olds V8 more so.
No ‘engine’ swaps, but I do have way too much experience doing traction-motor swaps in ZAP Xebra’s. Oi!
Bought a mostly straight white ’64 Nova 4-door with a tired 230 six + Powerglide for ~$500 (?) back in ’91. Unsolicited, the older guy across the street saw me working on the car in my carport and GAVE me his dangerously rusted-out ’64 Nova with a strong 230 six + Powerglide. A buddy and I swapped engine and drivetrain as a unit in the carport with hand tools and a jack-operated engine lift. Simple as could be – good thing, because my mechanical aptitude probably couldn’t handle much more than that.
I reversed a bad engine swap once. Bought a Triumph TR4 from a farmer who figured “a Triumph is a Triumph” and proceeded to butcher in a Spitfire engine and transmission. When he couldn’t make the carbs clear the inner fender he gave up.
I actually drove it home, leaking fuel all the way (stupid, but made it). My buddy had a rusted-beyond-saving TR4 that ran well and became the driveline donor. After undoing the butcher work on the engine mounts and exhaust system, it became a nice summer driver for a few years.
Oh yeah, but not lately:
– My 72 Matador 2door got the donor engine from a low mileage 4door
– Later the same engine wound up in my 80 Concord
– Helped brother in law swap his SBC for a junkyard motor, which turned out to be worse than the old motor
– Helped my brother in law swap his SBC for another junkyard motor, resolved to not help brother in law anymore
– Various other SBC’s with friends
– Motor in & out on my TR4
All of these swaps took place in my parent’s driveway, they were very understanding as were the neighbors now that I think about it.
I also pulled a 440 Dodge out of a fuselage station wagon behind our neighborhood convenience store, then pushed it 10 blocks home on the bottom half of a shopping cart. It was partially uphill and I gained a new respect for the heft of a big block motor, and the durability of shopping carts.
Let’s see:
Sleeved ’73 Vega engine to my ’71, which was burning a gallon of oil every two weeks at that point.
Later swapped a Buick 3.8l into the ’71 Vega, and replaced the four-speed Saginaw with a THM 350.
Swapped a medium-hot four-bolt-mains Chevy 350 and THM350 into my ’66 Tempest, replacing the Sprint Six and two-speed auto. True sleeper car (four door granny car).
I’ve probably done a half-dozen VW engine in/outs, too.
I’ve done a few back in the day. The old man was a contractor, and I’ve gotta tell you that there’s nothing like a hydraulic backhoe to do an engine swap. You can wiggle it from side to side as well as up, down, forward, back. Now I’m talking about the type of backhoe that’s on the back of a tractor that has a loader bucket on the front. I removed the small-block Chevy from his crummy which had had a minor fire under the hood – not enough to melt anything but the carburetor – it ended up going into my 1960 Chevy pickup. I also swapped the V8 motor and tranny out of a 1951 Land Cruiser into a 1953 Commander 2-door hardtop that I’d bought engineless with that swap in mind. That one I finished myself – it did require a couple of trips to car dealers to look at the wiring on a running car.
I helped my best friend swap 390’s out of and into a 62 tbird. It was a tight fit. We were both in high school and weren’t afraid of anything.
Did an engine out-and-back-in job on my Hillman Imp the other week to look at a clutch issue. Probably one of the easiest cars to do, as the complete engine weighs only 170lb and you don’t need a hoist because the rear panel/crossmember unbolts so you just wheel the engine out, or more often wheel the car away from the engine.
I also remember helping a friend with a 2.6 Astron into 1970’s Lancer, using a childrens swing set frame to lift the engine, one of the old type, made of solid steel pipe.
While the engine wasnt swapped, I did have to pull the engine and trans of the ’72 VW bus on a Santa Barbara street to replace the burnt clutch. Unlike previous VW’s, the engine wouldnt come out by itself. Both had to be dropped and separated on the ground to fix the clutch. This was near the end of a trip, but it wasnt going to make it back to LA at 35mph with the engine at redline.